Gaming still sux on Macs

[jadam]

Gaming on the new macs still suk, considering the fact that with a geforce 4 MX, the new powermacs get 115fps at 1024x768 with 1.5gb SDRAM, thats horrible, PeeCees get 205fps at 1024x768 with Geforce 3ees, come on, most likely tho, its whoever ported the QIII engines fualt. ohh well. Hopefully more games come out for Macs, im still ganna wait for the G5s

Though, this is a move towards the right direction for macs, hopefully game makers will take full advantage of these new macs, I hope Doom 3 comes for macs first, then 2 months later for peecees, That would bring over dozens of gamers to the macs, and gamers are like 30% of the people who use PCs

Kudos to Apple!

[sparkleytone]

115fps in what? or just a random 115fps, no game specified :P

if you say quake3 you get shot because that benchmark was outdated a good solid year ago.

[jadam]

yeah Quake 3, but thats what apple used, maybe they should try return to the castle

[Backtothemac]

Hate to say it, but run unreal tourn. or quake on a Mac with an LCD and look at it on an LCD based PC. The PC sucks! Believe me, the GForce 4 will rock.

[Choppaface]

i don't get why people benchmark using framerates. the human eye can't tell anything above 30/sec or so anyways. so you're basically getting 100 more frames you can't see...or at least have very little movement in them :D
although the game <i>selection</i> for macs is still pretty limited....

check out this comparison
http://barefeats.com/pentium4.html

I'd like to see more app comparisons, but you can see that the G4s keep up pretty well. and in the cases that they don't, the difference still is pretty small if you look at your watch. nothing that would make you go postal and throw a brick in your monitor because you had to wait too long

[kungfu]

sparkley tone --- look at this website:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html

apple says that under a dp 1ghz quake III runs at 115 fps... so it isn't an outdated benchmark.

[DannyZR2]

Originally posted by Choppaface
i don't get why people benchmark using framerates. the human eye can't tell anything above 30/sec or so anyways. so you're basically getting 100 more frames you can't see...

The point is that this high frame rate of 115+ is a maximum count. When there is more going on in the screen during the game the count drops and that is why you need a cushion of those extra frames. so when it drops it will always be above what you can actually see.

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by kungfu
sparkley tone --- look at this website:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html

apple says that under a dp 1ghz quake III runs at 115 fps... so it isn't an outdated benchmark.

you are stupid.

[DavidCL23]

sparkleytone, is that how you respond when something doesn't go your way? Macs are very underpowered in comparison to pcs for games, and unless people like you realize this and admit to it, apple won't do anythng about it!!! So grow up and admit macs are not gaming machines.

[obeygiant]

hey.. would DDR ram help any with games?

oh yeah, whats good about ddr ram



dr. stupid and chemical x

[kungfu]

Originally posted by sparkleytone


you are stupid.

why am i stupid? just because you're wrong and you cant back up what you say?

and by the way, in no way am i putting down macs (if thats what you're angry about), i still love them :p ! im just pointing something out.

[DavidCL23]

You can put down macs if you want, no-one says they are perfect, all we say is that they are better then pcs, and that is becoming more and more questionable as time passes.

[jadam]

Originally posted by obeygiant
hey.. would DDR ram help any with games?

oh yeah, whats good about ddr ram



dr. stupid and chemical x

DDR does help with higher resolutions and higher color bit depths.

Hmm im wondering now which chipset the apple Geforce 4 MX uses, if it has the 250mhz one with the 275mhz memory, that would kick serious ass, hopefully there not using the one with 200mhz and 166mhz memory, that would really suck ass, i mean realllyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy suck ass...

[Tandy Rules]

IBM computer are the only computers made for gaming. Look at it this way. Blizzard is the only company that creats games for that kick butt, and then converts them to OS format. Why go through the trouble of waiting 6months for a game that is already out for the PC. Or lets look at it this way, your buddy who has a PC just got this awesome game... "TOTALLY AWESOME GAME ONLY FOR PC". You want to play it, so either you get smart and buy a PC or you imulate it ( YEAH! resource hog!).

I see mac just as a waste of money, wow! it has colored plastic..., I hear people b!tching about how they can't play a game cause it is only for PC. Well see their is a resion for that, most of the game is writen to the kernal that the IMB computer works with, a mac of the other hand, doesnt have these code. So you imulate, slow down your system, and cant even render the graphics correctly.

If you want a kicka§§ word processor get a mac, if you want to play games, get an IBM. Also to note, if you are smart enough to build a PC you can run two hard drives, one with old Bill's Windows and then the other with Steves OSX... its just a menu change in the POST BIOS. I've done it, OS reminds me of KDE just stupid with the menu's at he top.

GO ON FLAME ME!

-=TANDY 1000=-

[jadam]

OSX on an intel processor, what kind of crack are you smoking.

PPC and x86 chips are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, its like putting a Dreamcast game into a playstation, ARE YOU STUPID OR SOMETHING, YOU ARE A COMPLETE RETARD. Yes there is a build for x86 machines, but know one owns it, that is unless you work for apple, and you wouldnt be ****ting on macs if you worked for them you ****.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules
IBM computer are the only computers made for gaming. Look at it this way. Blizzard is the only company that creats games for that kick butt, and then converts them to OS format. Why go through the trouble of waiting 6months for a game that is already out for the PC. Or lets look at it this way, your buddy who has a PC just got this awesome game... "TOTALLY AWESOME GAME ONLY FOR PC". You want to play it, so either you get smart and buy a PC or you imulate it ( YEAH! resource hog!).

I see mac just as a waste of money, wow! it has colored plastic..., I hear people b!tching about how they can't play a game cause it is only for PC. Well see their is a resion for that, most of the game is writen to the kernal that the IMB computer works with, a mac of the other hand, doesnt have these code. So you imulate, slow down your system, and cant even render the graphics correctly.

If you want a kicka§§ word processor get a mac, if you want to play games, get an IBM. Also to note, if you are smart enough to build a PC you can run two hard drives, one with old Bill's Windows and then the other with Steves OSX... its just a menu change in the POST BIOS. I've done it, OS reminds me of KDE just stupid with the menu's at he top.

GO ON FLAME ME!

-=TANDY 1000=-

Don't flame you?!?!?!?!??? When you have great gaping holes in your logic??? I don't think so. First of all.. IBM should not be named as the 'computer are the only computer made for gaming.' utter BS. Blizzard is NOT the only company making games for the Mac (check your facts bonehead).

I have played UT on my 500MHz TiBook against other pc's on a network, and have more then kept up with them.

You are about to get into a world of hurt with your comments... since you are OBVIOSLY a peecee user only, and NOT open minded. I have two mac's and a pc (built myself. but could probably could have picked up one of the new 933MHz G4's with what I have dumped into it).

My G4 500 tower, with a 32MB ATI Radeon DDR video card kicks a$$. I have been thinking about getting Giant Citizen Kabuto for it (you know the one). UT runs sweet on it, especially with the ViewSonic VG175 monitor attached.

Have you EVER used a Mac??? How about one running OS X (10.1.2)?? I seriously doubt it. There is a real reason why the tandy computers are referred to as 'trash'

How many pc's are still in service after 10 years, or longer??? Very few if any. I personally know people that have Mac SE systems that are still being used (daily as computers not door stops). How many peecees from that far back are still around and being used daily?? I would estimate high at one or two. The hardware from Apple is held to a higher standard then for the peecee world, that is a fact.

[Durandal7]

Let me explain something to you Tandy Rules, OS X does NOT run on an x86 chip. The basic Darwin core will run on x86 but NOT the MacOS. You clearly do not grasp what a processor is or how it works. Just because you threw in some crap about BIOS does not mean it will confuse us into believing you. Maybe you just used an emulator and hit your head.

[jadam]

seriously, i think this guy is a complete ****ing idiot, i mean running OSX on and intel machine, heh, that would be soooooooooooo slow, because of the fact you have a 500mhz Pee cee, 1ghz Peecee, 2ghz Peecee, 1.5 ghz peecee, 750mhz peecee, an Athlon, Duron, Celeron, Pentuim 4, Celeron, PIII-M, Athlon 4, Transmeta Crusoe, my god, the list goeas on and on, on macs u got a G3, or G4 thats it.

Then again this kid once told me that it would be a piece of cake to install Windows 2k on a PS2, heh, how stupid is that, he does i dont know... how much **** in my school involving computers, i do what in my school, nothinggggggg. and im at least 10x smarter than this kid, Dumb people get to good places i mean look at microsoft. and dell, and Gateway, have you seen their new Ads, a talking Cow, HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA,

now there trying to compete with apple with a 2.2ghz P4, 1gb RDRAM, DVD-R, Geforce 3(though a Radeon 8500 DV would be the proper choice) look at them try to compete...

Stupid people

[Tandy Rules]

"There is a real reason why the tandy computers are referred to as 'trash'" um... dude, do you even know what a tandy computer or on.... a Tandy 1000 is. Its a TERMINAL, a loading station for software from the mid '80's .... were you even born then?

Actually I have used a while range of Operating Systems and CPU's. From PC, Linux, Unix, Mac, and Sun. As well as the CPU's, from Intel and AMD to the POWER4 and Alpha. Wow worked with an Alpha oh and the POWER4.... WOW! How many of you even know what that is.

For the amount you guys pay for a Mac you could build an IBM, that is faster... no not the MHz rating... the ACTUAL CALCULATIONS PER CYCLE. If any one Flames me about the Clock rate I am in full right to call you an idiot! As well as DDR, ATA133 HDD, and You can even get a the new nVidia nForce.... even though it is a GrForce2 its still able to beet a GeForce3 or 4. With all of this and a nice LCD or CRT monitor.... you'll still be saving at lest a grand or two.

For the mac.... word processor with bells and some other stuff. Dont even say the mac is perfict, just about everytime I get on mine it locks up, with its own software! Yes, windows 9x sucks... but XP has yet to lock up. The same with Linux and either of the two major shells, and sun, if it locks up or crashes... something is wrong with it, cause they are made not to.

If you want to play games, play it on a PC with Bills software... the hardware it was designed to run on.

[AlphaTech]

The Radeon 8500 is coming to the Mac, in AGP form (see ATI's web site). On the peecee side, it is a sweet card. I fully expect that it would perform just as good in a G4/G5 if not better.

I say better because, as so nicely put above, you only have one or two processors to deal with, and not tons. I am not sure if the 8500 will work in a 2x AGP slot, or if it requires a 4x slot. If it works in the 2x then it should be good for all G4's. You also have less variables with the motherboards and everything else.

[anshelm]

" If you want a kicka§§ word processor get a mac, if you want to play games, get an IBM. Also to note, if you are smart enough to build a PC you can run two hard drives, one with old Bill's Windows and then the other with Steves OSX... its just a menu change in the POST BIOS. I've done it, OS reminds me of KDE just stupid with the menu's at he top."

It is physically impossible to run OS X on a PC. MacOS X is compiled for the PowerPC processor. The Assembly language that the PPC understands is RADICALLY different then the Assembly language an x86 processor understands.

Um, dude, that's NOT how you dual-boot. I dual boot every day. And let me splain it to you: it has nothing to do with the BIOS. It's not a "menu change". It's a program that sits in the master boot sector of your hard disk called a boot loader, and that allows you to choose which OS to run. Your BIOS doesn't know anything about OS's.

And KDE is nothing like MacOS X. Just because you know a *nix window manager's name doesn't mean you know what it looks like. You want to know what KDE looks like? I'll take a screenshot and send it to you. It looks a LOT more like Windows then MacOS X.

Also, do you even KNOW what the you're talking about? There is no such thing as the "POST BIOS". POST means Power On Self Test. It's what the computer does when it gets powered on. It tests to check and see if the components are working. The BIOS stands for Basic Input Output System. It's what actually talks directly to the hardware. There IS no such thing as the "POST BIOS".

Also, you don't need two hard drives to dual boot. You can dual boot off of one hard drive just fine. The boot loader doesn't care if both OS's are on the same drive or on multiple drives. There are actually FOUR bootable partitions before the extended partition, Windows is just stupid enough to only recognize one bootable partition.

So, how did you overcome the fact that PPC Assembly language is foreign to x86 processors, the fact that there is no such thing as the "POST BIOS", and also that there is no "menu change" to select which OS to run?

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules
"There is a real reason why the tandy computers are referred to as 'trash'" um... dude, do you even know what a tandy computer or on.... a Tandy 1000 is. Its a TERMINAL, a loading station for software from the mid '80's .... were you even born then?

Actually I have used a while range of Operating Systems and CPU's. From PC, Linux, Unix, Mac, and Sun. As well as the CPU's, from Intel and AMD to the POWER4 and Alpha. Wow worked with an Alpha oh and the POWER4.... WOW! How many of you even know what that is.

For the amount you guys pay for a Mac you could build an IBM, that is faster... no not the MHz rating... the ACTUAL CALCULATIONS PER CYCLE. If any one Flames me about the Clock rate I am in full right to call you an idiot! As well as DDR, ATA133 HDD, and You can even get a the new nVidia nForce.... even though it is a GrForce2 its still able to beet a GeForce3 or 4. With all of this and a nice LCD or CRT monitor.... you'll still be saving at lest a grand or two.

For the mac.... word processor with bells and some other stuff. Dont even say the mac is perfict, just about everytime I get on mine it locks up, with its own software! Yes, windows 9x sucks... but XP has yet to lock up. The same with Linux and either of the two major shells, and sun, if it locks up or crashes... something is wrong with it, cause they are made not to.

If you want to play games, play it on a PC with Bills software... the hardware it was designed to run on.

ok Bubba... first off, the trash system is what the TRS-80 was referred to (trash 80) were you around back then???

No computer is perfect... especially peecee's, and don't even start on xp with it's security holes out the whazoo. I could go out tomorrow and pop in an ATA133 card into my G4 tower and use any hard drive I want. The ONLY item that is not for the Mac YET is DDR memory, and I expect that will be soon.

Did you ever think that since you hate the Mac sooo much that you are the one locking it up?? When was the last time you bothered to either update it or run utilities on it?? I don't mean the crappy ones that come with peecee's (which BLOW!!).

Old Billy-Bob gates rapes you for his software.. who wants to pay upwards of $300+ for an OS??? I won't, plain and simple. Consider, I purchased the OS X 10.1 retail box for about $130 and that came with BOTH 9.2.1 AND 10.1.

Since you are obviouly a peecee lover and Mac hater, go bugger yourself and leave us alone.

[Catfish_Man]

...you're all getting a bit hyper. Here's some facts:

1) Quake III benchmarks depend on the settings. Using the right settings a DP 800 can get 250 fps on QIII. A DP1Ghz would do MUCH better. A 2.2GHz P4 would probably do even better, unless QIII uses Altivec a lot.

2) Windows will not run on a Mac without an emulator, the reverse is also true.

3) The Power4 is awesome

4) The GeForce 4 is also awesome, and it came out for Mac first (same as the GeForce 3). (I still like the Radeon 8500 better. TruForm is *awesome*)

5) Not only is Blizzard not the only company making Mac games, there are SEVERAL companies making Mac ONLY games. You just can't run them on a PC.

6) Macs are not word processors. They're graphics machines.

7) Apple needs to put DDR ram on Macs. SDRAM is crippling their performance. A DP 1GHz with DDR would flatten a 2.2GHz P4. (the P4 gets less done per clock cycle, but the Mac has SMP overhead, so they pretty much cancel out. However, the Mac still has Altivec.)

8) This is just a maintenance update. Otherwise they would have hyped it more. The G5 is coming...

[jadam]

BTW, Windows XP BLOWZ, Ive been helping my uncle fix up his Peecee, first of all, his first motherboard burned with his geforce 2 MX, he then bought a new video card geforce 3 ti 200 a new motherboard, We installed a pirated version of Windowz XP pro, we had frequent lock ups, we then got a new motherboard, guess what lock ups again... We then went out and BOUGHT windowz XP home edition, hmm, what a pain, STILL we had lock ups, not until 3 days later did we find out it was the USB ports on our mother board that was messing it up. my god the time lost. Now we cant even use USB, great...

On a mac that wouldnt happen because their are no jumpers to **** up your computer with. Windowz blowz, its a waist of money. thats why winblowz. I just hope Apple vastly improves opengl performance in OS X.2

WINDOWS SUCKS, my 233mhz Pentuim laptop which im using now, until G5 comes out, I took off Windowz 98 and installed BeOS, guess what the OS is dead, but its about 100x more stable and faster, not once has beos crashed on me, windows every day... and since macs are based on Unix, they kick aSSSSSSSSSSS

[AlphaTech]

That is typical of what I have heard about xp...

I have been running OS X 10.x on my TiBook since it came out. I went out and bought 10.1 and have NEVER had a crash/freeze/lockup in my computer.

It has been well over 6 months since I first installed OS X (don't remember when I installed 10.0.4 but it was within a month of it's release).

Apple make computers a joy to use.

[Tandy Rules]

$300 OS to a $130 OS... well how can that compared to a $1500 computer to a $4000 computer.

Oh and logo's/mascots... half eat'en apple and fruity colored computers, to what... a cow, or "dude you're getting a dell", and the IBM commercials. they are all nice, but i wouldnt buy a prebuilt system, if i dont know what it really is or if its integrated.... how can i upgrade it. most prebuilts are made with ***** parts. when is the last time you've seen a personal compaq lasting more than 2-3years. not the, servers compaq servers are one of the best in the world as well as the ibm servers.

Also the mention of running partitions, why wont you want to slipt a drive, you now have data all on one drive... get a virus or a crash the entire drive is gone. same as raid/striping a drive, doing that you now have twice to quad the moving parts, thats X2 to X4 the chance of something going wrong.

Also the different types of CPU's for the PC is because its the most widely used platform. Hell Intel and AMD have finally reached power of the IMB and Compaq CPU's and they are still at 1000MHz. Soon the new Power4 and the Alpha will come out and they will be ahead for the rest of the year. CPU's are decided on what the computer is used for in the x86 platform. Just because there are so many different kinds doesnt mean its messed up it means you can pick what you want and how much.

I'm not a peecee lover, my main computer is a sun laptop. the computer for games is a, yes, PC with the morgan core Athlon. all of my servers are linux, and there is a dual G4 500, and yes it is always up to date.

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by jadam
BTW, Windows XP BLOWZ, Ive been helping my uncle fix up his Peecee, first of all, his first motherboard burned with his geforce 2 MX, he then bought a new video card geforce 3 ti 200 a new motherboard, We installed a pirated version of Windowz XP pro, we had frequent lock ups, we then got a new motherboard, guess what lock ups again... We then went out and BOUGHT windowz XP home edition, hmm, what a pain, STILL we had lock ups, not until 3 days later did we find out it was the USB ports on our mother board that was messing it up. my god the time lost. Now we cant even use USB, great...

On a mac that wouldnt happen because their are no jumpers to **** up your computer with. Windowz blowz, its a waist of money. thats why winblowz. I just hope Apple vastly improves opengl performance in OS X.2

WINDOWS SUCKS, my 233mhz Pentuim laptop which im using now, until G5 comes out, I took off Windowz 98 and installed BeOS, guess what the OS is dead, but its about 100x more stable and faster, not once has beos crashed on me, windows every day... and since macs are based on Unix, they kick aSSSSSSSSSSS

DUDE! What Mobo did you get, almost no IBM Mobo's have jumpers.... everything is plug-in-play. If the USB doesnt work, take it out and get a replacement board... that is if the company has one. All good IBM mobo makers have a warrenty. It could also be user error, if the mobo had jumpers then its screwed up in there somewhere.

Also yes BeOS was awesome, have to say that.... until winME came out they were doing awesome and then dos was taken out.

Plus your statement about macs not having jumpers, thats BS i've seen many old macs with jumpers... about as many as an IBM of the time.

[DakotaGuy]

Tandy??? What the hell is a Tandy??? Sounds like some kinda lingerie...

[jadam]

Well im talking about the new ibm mobos, plus its a Gigabyte Mobo, and thats a good one ok. A PIII, ohh well.

And I doubt a new alpha is coming out since Compaq is doing like **** now being bought by HP. Hp is using the IA-64 Epic architecture just like the Itanuim, so they wont want any competition. Even though Alphas kick ass. You know AMD's where based on ALPHAS hence the Socket A(lpha). Thats why they are so much better than pentuims. Also arent Power4's the ones used in Dreamcast or was the SuperH. ahh whatever. Alphas kick ass, but no applications for them, hence not real reason to buy, or else i would have an alpha right now. I have no damn clue what the Power4 is. ohh well, who cares. and guess what it wasnt the jumper.

All of a sudden if fixed up by itself, then it got ****ed up again and fixed up again. an annoying process.

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Tandy??? What the hell is a Tandy??? Sounds like some kinda lingerie...

LOL... Tandy was a company that made leather, they started making electronics and eventually some of the first comsumer computers, that took 20mins to load anything. Radio Shake bought them, and killed the line slowly.

[jadam]

hey my first pc was a 486 66mhz O/C to 80mhz, with 8mb Ram, Windows 3.11--->Windows 95, heh 15 floppies to install. and a whopping 200mb HD with 2mb vram hahaha beat that apple.

[jadam]

My cousin had a Tandy, he though it was cooler than my 486 (look up) because it could run kings quest I, II, III, and wow IV

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by jadam
Well im talking about the new ibm mobos, plus its a Gigabyte Mobo, and thats a good one ok. A PIII, ohh well.

And I doubt a new alpha is coming out since Compaq is doing like **** now being bought by HP. Hp is using the IA-64 Epic architecture just like the Itanuim, so they wont want any competition. Even though Alphas kick ass. You know AMD's where based on ALPHAS hence the Socket A(lpha). Thats why they are so much better than pentuims. Also arent Power4's the ones used in Dreamcast or was the SuperH. ahh whatever. Alphas kick ass, but no applications for them, hence not real reason to buy, or else i would have an alpha right now. I have no damn clue what the Power4 is. ohh well, who cares. and guess what it wasnt the jumper.

All of a sudden if fixed up by itself, then it got ****ed up again and fixed up again. an annoying process.

Hot D@mn, someone knows what an Alpha is, yeah I know about the socket A and and AMD buying into the techonlogy when Compaq bought Alpha. Power4 is an IBM CPU, but both CPU's worked on their own OS system which was and still is able to open linux.

If a Power4 ended up in a Deamcast that would be insane, the chip itself is about $5k and the Athlon XP 1600 X2 is the only CPU setup to beet it, by a hair.

[ThlayliTheFierce]

The Alpha is dead. Compaq killed it. Go read the Register, it's in there somewhere. Seriously, given how you have displayed an obvious lack of knowledge, grammar, and basic debating skills, why should we believe anything you have to say?

[sockdoggy]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules
IBM computer are the only computers made for gaming.

If you want a kicka§§ word processor get a mac, if you want to play games, get an IBM.

So all PCs are made by IBM? hmmm.....

If you want to play games so badly get a console (PS2,Gamecube,Xbox). Why would you spend 2k+ on a gaming machine?

[DakotaGuy]

Common...you all have to fess up...the most awesome gaming computer was the Apple IIe only to be outdone by the Apple IIgs. I mean...I caught Carmen Sandiego and played Oregon Trail for hours...Heck even at our school that I teach I kept an Apple IIgs in the room...just cause my 5th graders say the games rule...lol...hey how can 21 5th graders be wrong????LOL Sure the graphics remind you of Atari...but they don't care...and that thing has to be 15 yrs old and it still has not broke.....hehe....

My PowerMac 5500's never break down either...but the new Gateway Celerons with that cheesy plastic stand to turn it on it's side (seriously has anyone see that?) One day out of the 4 only one was running. It is funny cause they asked if I wanted to replace the 5500 at my desk with the Gateway...cause they were giving each teacher one along with 4 in each room...and I told them to go away...okay I know it is a lot slower...but it works...pretty sad when a 5-6 year old computer is more reliable then a brand new one...

Other then 50 new iBooks, my school has went PC...because of cost...but I just walk upstairs to the High School PeeCee lab...and it's always a mess and they have not even touched XP yet. Sure I admit the Gateways were freebie's. Since most are built in SD and our governor is worried they might go broke, he bought up a few thousand of them and handed them to every school...I think we got like 80 of them for a K-12 student body of 340. We got a grant for the 50 iBooks and we still have a few 5500's, iMacs, and yeah...my Apple IIgs! We are swimming in computers...lol....but the only ones you can count on is the iMacs and the 5500's.

The Airport network has been the buggy part of the iBooks. Our tech coordinator hates Apple and can't wait till the iBooks (all the Macs for that matter) are replaced with PeeCee notebooks and desktops cause he says they don't work right with his network and they cause all the problems with the PC's (I still don't understand how my old 5500 causes his PC's to crash upstairs...huh) to ... I say the PC notebooks will never hold up to the abuse the kids give them. Oh well he works his butt off keeping those PeeCee's up...He just won't admit he's wrong even when I see him still at the school at 7pm on a Friday night...

[Mac o' sex]

Should someone tell TandyRules that IBM doen't make all the windows computers ?? And that IBM makes Power PC Processors ? maybe not, it might confuse him.....:confused:

[grouse]

rather than blather on about Tandys and the like.

It may just be me, but the Power Macs are kind of designed for professional design work, film work and 3D modelling. And these new specs look good to me.

If you want to play games go buy a Game X-Cube/sphere/PS2 box (whatever) for £200 or so and stop moaning.

[grouse]

Although not as much these days, people quite often refer to non-Mac computers as IBM computers (it used to be IBM-compatible computers) bit like Hoovers when we mean Vacuum cleaners and so on. So don't hang the man for that!

[Pants]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules




I'm not a peecee lover, my main computer is a sun laptop.


oh come on folks - he's having a laugh! he has a sun LAPTOP! its an obvious wind up!

still - the basic tenet of this trhead was worth discussing before it got hijacked..
why pay for a gf4 and lose most of its value running ogl?

(ddr also makes not a huge difference to performance judging by the t.bird we have here - its marginal at best it seems)

[anshelm]

Can we hang him for not knowing what he's talking about?

" Also the mention of running partitions, why wont you want to slipt a drive, you now have data all on one drive... get a virus or a crash the entire drive is gone. same as raid/striping a drive, doing that you now have twice to quad the moving parts, thats X2 to X4 the chance of something going wrong."

In a RAID, you can set it up so that all drives get a copy of the same data, so that if one drive goes, you don't lost any data. You can set it up so that a checksum of sorts is placed on other drives, from which the data can be reconstructed. You can also set it up so that all drives have a small chunk of data so that the data is spread out, so one drive going won't mean loss of data. A RAID is the best possible solution to keep yourself from losing data.

Also, just to inform him, I have one drive that's only data, and two drives that have the OSes (I have a removable bay, so I can swap the hard drives quite easily), one that dual boots, and one that is just games. But that doesn't prevent my data drive from failing.

Also, if you do *safe computing* you are far less likey to get a virus. I have hardware and software firewalls, and I virus scan *every* exectuable of any type (for windows things like *.com, *.bat, *.exe, etc) that I download. I've yet to get a virus. Plus, when you install Linux, you have the option of storing your partition table on a floppy, so in case windows mucks up your partition table (by crashing or by virus), you can boot off the Linux CD, run a restore from the floppy, and be as good as new. So a "crash entire drive is gone" is practically impossible software wise. The only thing to prevent a hard drive failure destroying me data is running a RAID array.


And for the real kicker of stupidity:

"until winME came out they were doing awesome and then dos was taken out. "

I used to use WinME, just to try it out (Of the Win9x line, Win98SE was the best of 'em). Yes, there is a stupid dialog box that *claims* it doesn't support real-mode dos. However, with a registry hack (if you really want me to find it I can, but you're just as capable of going to google as I am) you can disable the 'system restore' crap... and in the same process, it removes the stupid lock on DOS. It's just as much a DOS-based Windows as Win95/98. Windows NT is the one without a DOS kernel, just a DOS emulator. (WinME is still a *shell* in that it uses the DOS kernel as it's very low-level kernel... for proof, after you've done that registry hack, boot from a floppy into DOS, then go into the C:\Windows directory and type in "WIN"... and it boots windows. Look at the WIN.COM file... it's the same file with added extras for each revision of Windows... Windows 3.1 had WIN.COM as well...).


And for terminology, I refer to a vacuum cleaner as a vacuum cleaner, and a tissue as a tissue (not a 'Kleenex'). And every person off-line I know does the same. We refer to PC's as PC's, and so should every other person on this planet. Don't give IBM credit where it ain't do... IBM doesn't make 'standards' for PC's. You're not an 'IBM-compatible' because that means you have to comply with IBM's PC's. IBM has to comply with the standards just like everyone else. They don't make them. Yes, the term 'IBM-compatible' was used back in the 80's and early 90's, but it was wrong then, too. It was probably coined by corporations, because corporations like to think that there is *one* PC manufacturer that everyone complies with. But there isn't. Anyway, enough on that rant.


Back to the main topic...

My Athlon can get 250+ frames per second in Descent 3 (using the timetest that came with Descent 3, it's just a flag... I think it's '-timetest2' or something) at 1024x768x32 with all of the eye candy on, and the detail level turned up higher then the "highest" setting. But since I don't ever plan on getting Quake III, we'll never know the comparable stats, will we?

The idea that Mac's suck at gaming is strange. Numerous PC's suck at gaming, too, if all you're looking at is getting the highest frame rate. Not everyone will or can buy top-of-the-line stuff. So just because the very top end is better, that doesn't mean the rest of it is.

Plus, Mac's support OpenGL. OpenGL is the *best* standard for gaming. Microsoft's DirectX is crap. I timetested Descent 3 under my Radeon's OpenGL drivers and compared it to with DirectX 8.1... and OpenGL got 30/50/20 frames higher! (There are three stats in the timetest, the lowest, the highest, and the mean framerates). So why does the Mac "suck" at games?

"why pay for a gf4 and lose most of its value running ogl? "

Loose most of it's value? How? The very best in gaming use OpenGL because it's the best standard out there, and happens to be on all platforms (Mac, Windows, Linux, etc).

[echo]

Originally posted by jadam
...not until 3 days later did we find out it was the USB ports on our mother board that was messing it up. my god the time lost. Now we cant even use USB, great...

On a mac that wouldnt happen because their are no jumpers to **** up your computer with. Windowz blowz, its a waist of money. thats why winblowz. I just hope Apple vastly improves opengl performance in OS X.2

Come on guys. Faulty hardware problems are not a Windows issue. My XP box is using its USB ports and it couldn't be happier. In regards to jumpers, I haven't had jumpers on my PC motherboards in many years. Most consumer PC boards these days allow all settings to be configured in the BIOS.

Do you think for one minute that if Apple ported OS X to PC hardware that it would fair any better? Microsoft has a massive moving target with all the different motherboards containing all the different chipsets, etc. I would imagine if Microsoft had 100% control over the hardware as Apple does... What am I saying, zealots will always come up with some catchy way to say the other guy sucks. I mean that "winblowz" word is a stroke of genius.

No I'm not a Microsoft lover. I would prefer to see OS X grab half of Microsoft's market share. The world needs competition, not silly words designed to attack the opponent in much the same way the 12 year old playground bully would.

[anshelm]

True, but Linux and FreeBSD run on a huge selection of hardware (and I mean huge, much larger then Microsoft wants you to believe), and in most cases do things much, much better then Windows. How is that possible if there is such a large 'moving target'? No, it's that Microsoft has thousand of people working on it's OS. No way can they make that stable and secure when you have that many people working on it. Plus, Microsoft cares more about 'features' and having a version running on every box then they do about 'security'. (And that 'accidentally leaked' memo is just PR. They won't make any difference in their coding. Not unless they started to loose market share.)

No, I'm not a Mac zealot, I use Linux. Personally, I dislike Aqua. However, Apple doesn't have 100% control of the hardware! Please think things through before posting something like that. Yes, Apple controls motherboards and OS. And the default components in the Mac. But there are a large variety of Mac components made by lots of other vendors (hard drives, CD's, mice, printers, etc, etc). Quite a few, actually, who make components for both platforms. So, the MacOS can be geared toward a much tighter integration of defualt hardware. How does Windows do when you add hardware? How does the Mac do when you add hardware? Switch and remove hardware? Windows does a crappy job with that. Unless you remove the drivers first, and then remove the component, and *then* put in the new component, you're going to end up with "phantom" drivers that come and go simply because Windows doesn't remove entries from it's hardware database.

Also, another thing that makes Windows *crap* is the Registry. Any program can enter anything they want in there... and leave it. The Registry grows by leaps and bounds. RegClean does a decent job of fixing things, but even then, it misses problems. When the Registry falls apart from it's own bloated, twisted weight, the only thing you can do is remove the Registry and replace it with System.1st (or reinstall after removing the Registry).

I like how Applications on the Mac platform can't put ddl's anywhere they want, and can't change them at abandon. Windows becomes very cranky when one program modifies a ddl, and then some other program modfies that same ddl, and then Windows expects it to work one way and it doesn't.

Basically Windows sucks because Microsoft has no idea how to program a good OS, not because there is a large hardware selection. My two cents.

This whole rant is about why WIndows's probelm isn't the amount of hardware, it's its design flaws (the Registry, modifiying dll's, too many programmers, etc). Add then the fact that WIndows does a crappy job with OpenGL most of the time and only a half-assed job with DirectX, and you have a crappy platform. For anything. The only thing to compare MacOS X to is other UNIX clones. (MacOS X isn't truly a UNIX any more then Linux is).

[sparkleytone]

i'd like to tell all the little newbies here that don't know how to read beyond press-releases to suck my digital ballz.

quake3 is NOT a reliable benchmark, hasn't been for over a year now. just because apple SAYS it can run at blahblahblah, that doesnt mean its a viable benchmark.

the people here make me believe ONE statistic i've read...the percentage of illiterate people in our society. they seem to all sign up for macrumors forums.

just because you can read DOESN'T make you literate, so don't even post it.

[echo]

Originally posted by anshelm
True, but Linux and FreeBSD run on a huge selection of hardware, and in most cases do things much, much better then Windows. How is that possible if there is such a large 'moving target'?

I would disagree that they do it better. I have used Linux for over five years now, and while I do like it, I can generally find more hardware with fully functional Windows drivers than Linux drivers (Motherboards and chipsets not withstanding). BTW, not saying anything about Linux in general, but it has crashed on me before just as has many different versions of Windows and Mac OS.


Plus, Microsoft cares more about 'features' and having a version running on every box then they do about 'security'.

No arguments.

However, Apple doesn't have 100% control of the hardware! Please think things through before posting something like that.

I did think. What I was refering to was the base foundation of hardware, of which a large chunk of Mac users never change. And you can't say they don't control the hardware of the iMac? Of course the user can plug in various USB and Firewire devices, but my point was that it is easier for Apple since they start with a known and stable foundation.

And while we are here, the "think things through before posting" crack is another one of my dislikes. It is a personal attack. Do you know what I was or was not thinking at the time I was writting that post?

How does Windows do when you add hardware?

I personally have never had a problem in my many years of PC building/customization. But that is probably because I do research into the hardware I buy and check for drivers, owners comments, etc. I know there is a lot of poorly supported hardware out there for PCs. I don't buy that stuff. I would say that the Mac hardware vendors probably on average do a better job.

Also, another thing that makes Windows *crap* is the Registry. Any program can enter anything they want in there... and leave it. The Registry grows by leaps and bounds. RegClean does a decent job of fixing things, but even then, it misses problems. When the Registry falls apart from it's own bloated, twisted weight, the only thing you can do is remove the Registry and replace it System.1st (or reinstall after removing the Registry).

I'm not a huge fan of the registry either. It was the solution to a problem.

I like how Applications on the Mac platform can't put ddl's anywhere they want, and can't change them at abandon. Windows because very cranky when one program modifies a ddl, and then some other program modfies that same ddl, and then Windows expects it to work one way it doesn't.

Programs don't have to put Windows DLLs in the \Windows\System directory. That is up to the folks that write the program and installer. Windows XP will not allow third party installers to overwrite system DLLs. But, I agree allowing it to happen in the first place was not a good idea.

Basically Windows sucks because Microsoft has no idea how to program a good OS, not because there is a large hardware selection. My two cents.

Okay. Do you know any Microsoft's OS programmers personally and what is their programming skill level and knowledge of OS design? And specifically tell me why the OS "sucks". What in the kernel sucks? What about the memory manager sucks? What about the scheduler?

This whole rant is about why WIndows is not 'better' then a Mac. And the fact that's it not the amount of hardware that's the problem, it's Windows basic design flaws (the Registry, modifiying dll's, too many programmers, etc).

Yes and no. It is a problem with the hardware if it is faulty hardware or faulty drivers that are causing the problems. Drivers are generally written by the hardware manufacturer and since they need to be able to operate in the kernel space, they have the ability to crash the entire system. That, and other similar hardware related issues, are in my personal experience, more often the cause of Windows problems. Is Windows better or worse than OS X? Who knows. That is such a subjective question that I don't think it would be possible to answer. Personally I don't care. I use both (and Linux). Are there bugs in Windows? Yes. Are there bugs in OS X? Yes. Are there bugs in Linux? Yes.

Add then the fact that WIndows does a crappy job with OpenGL most of the time and only a half-assed job with DirectX, and you have a crappy platform.

OpenGL drivers are often written specifically to the graphics card. Nvidia writes theirs, ATI writes theirs, etc. Windows does come with a basic set of OpenGL drivers, but they aren't optimized for any specific card that I am aware of. What does that have to do with the OS being unstable? The same goes for DirectX drivers.

The only thing to compare MacOS X to is other UNIX clones. (MacOS X isn't truly a UNIX and more then Linux is).

I personally prefer OS X over Linux. But, I like Linux too.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules
$300 OS to a $130 OS... well how can that compared to a $1500 computer to a $4000 computer.

Oh and logo's/mascots... half eat'en apple and fruity colored computers, to what... a cow, or "dude you're getting a dell", and the IBM commercials. they are all nice, but i wouldnt buy a prebuilt system, if i dont know what it really is or if its integrated.... how can i upgrade it. most prebuilts are made with ***** parts. when is the last time you've seen a personal compaq lasting more than 2-3years. not the, servers compaq servers are one of the best in the world as well as the ibm servers.

Also the mention of running partitions, why wont you want to slipt a drive, you now have data all on one drive... get a virus or a crash the entire drive is gone. same as raid/striping a drive, doing that you now have twice to quad the moving parts, thats X2 to X4 the chance of something going wrong.

Also the different types of CPU's for the PC is because its the most widely used platform. Hell Intel and AMD have finally reached power of the IMB and Compaq CPU's and they are still at 1000MHz. Soon the new Power4 and the Alpha will come out and they will be ahead for the rest of the year. CPU's are decided on what the computer is used for in the x86 platform. Just because there are so many different kinds doesnt mean its messed up it means you can pick what you want and how much.

I'm not a peecee lover, my main computer is a sun laptop. the computer for games is a, yes, PC with the morgan core Athlon. all of my servers are linux, and there is a dual G4 500, and yes it is always up to date.

Your not comparing similar computers there sparky... The top-of-the-line G4 tower (dual processor) runs either $3000 or $3650 depending on what you want Apple to install for hardware. You can go with the $3000 model, and add memory and hard drives later. There are RAID cards available for the Mac, that use ATA drives (Sonnett has one that will use ATA133 drives). Also, OS X has RAID software built into it, window$ doesn't. Before you go off on another rant... yes, win2k has 'spanning' which is NOT the same thing.

How many company made peecee's can support up to 4 hard drives without removing plates and such???

IBM makes processors for Apple... they are the ones that have come out with a 1GHz G3 chip. What speeds do you think both AMD and intel are up to these days??? Seems like you are using dated data.

When was the last time you heard of a virus that hit a Mac and did ANY damage?? I can't count the amount of times we have recieved virus warnings at work, that affect peecee's ONLY. In the past 2+ years, we have not had ONE Mac hit by a virus.

The only reason to partition drives, is because window$ couldn't handle anything over 2GB in size, until they fixed it a few years later. Granted, since the peecee world is still vulnerable to viruses, they try to figure out ways to avoid the damage. We don't have that problem on the Mac side.

IF your dual G4 is up to date, then I wonder what you have done to fork it up.

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by sockdoggy


So all PCs are made by IBM? hmmm.....

If you want to play games so badly get a console (PS2,Gamecube,Xbox). Why would you spend 2k+ on a gaming machine?

Damn, that hurt... NO!
IBM set the standard... why do you think everything for the PC is IBM, IBM Compatible, IBM Clone. Refering to a PC as an IBM is just saying what it really is... for example: I have a Car (I have a PC); I have a Ford, (I have an IBM)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules


Damn, that hurt... NO!
IBM set the standard... why do you think everything for the PC is IBM, IBM Compatible, IBM Clone. Refering to a PC as an IBM is just saying what it really is... for example: I have a Car (I have a PC); I have a Ford, (I have an IBM)

Has anyone else even heard those terms being used in the past five years??? The ONLY time I have seen IBM is on either a box of floppies, or on an IBM computer. Everything else is PC, pc clone, pc compatible...

Check the game boxes, they list processors, speeds, hard drives and OS's.

[spikey]

Its common knowledge that SOME microsoft programmers are ****.

Windows has improved in XP. But it is a slug, and i wonder how much of a future it has compared with OSX.

[AlphaTech]

Maybe that is why they went and made the heXbox... since they can see how people hate paying all that $$ each time they want a newer os that fixes problems that were rampant in the past version.

Also, anyone that installs any m$ operating system before the first service pack, is taking a huge risk. It only takes m$ about a year to year and a half to fix a good chunk of the bugs/problems with their os. They are still fixing all the problems with 2000. I wonder how long it will take them to get xp correct, probably about 6 month after they release the next system.

If Apple hadn't dropped the marketting ball all those years ago, m$ would have the 5% market share.

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Your not comparing similar computers there sparky... The top-of-the-line G4 tower (dual processor) runs either $3000 or $3650 depending on what you want Apple to install for hardware. You can go with the $3000 model, and add memory and hard drives later. There are RAID cards available for the Mac, that use ATA drives (Sonnett has one that will use ATA133 drives). Also, OS X has RAID software built into it, window$ doesn't. Before you go off on another rant... yes, win2k has 'spanning' which is NOT the same thing.

How many company made peecee's can support up to 4 hard drives without removing plates and such???

IBM makes processors for Apple... they are the ones that have come out with a 1GHz G3 chip. What speeds do you think both AMD and intel are up to these days??? Seems like you are using dated data.

When was the last time you heard of a virus that hit a Mac and did ANY damage?? I can't count the amount of times we have recieved virus warnings at work, that affect peecee's ONLY. In the past 2+ years, we have not had ONE Mac hit by a virus.

The only reason to partition drives, is because window$ couldn't handle anything over 2GB in size, until they fixed it a few years later. Granted, since the peecee world is still vulnerable to viruses, they try to figure out ways to avoid the damage. We don't have that problem on the Mac side.

IF your dual G4 is up to date, then I wonder what you have done to fork it up.

Nice points, but your statement about the top of the line mac, i was comparing it against a top of the line PC. Yes I know they have dual G4's at 1GHz, AMD have their Athlon MP's at 1.53GHz. Yes I know that the G4 can bench faster than an Intel CPU, but Intel is slow to AMD and the added 500MHz to each CPU makes it up. Plus with DDR RAM and all the Fun stuff, it will still be cheaper than a kickass Mac; most likly faster at that.

Of corse IBM makes the G3 what the hell do you think a POWER4 is? Its based off of the design of the G3 and some of the G4 (thats from what i understand)just heck of a lot more money.

What is the big deal about control RAID inside the OS, on PC you control it at boot, once its set you dont have to worry about it. Disk control from what the RAID has created can be done within Win.

I know what you mean about having the two HDD's and have two others that keep copy's of everything, but that is slow and alot of money.

Having a HDD on a CADDY is a good idea, just resently I installed a caddy system on my servers and my PC. So when I leave my place for a while i can just take the DATA and lock it up. I could care less if my computers melted in a fire or stolen, only the DATA is valuble. Can rebuild a system, not lost information.

The virus issue's are not just to PC's. There are so many for PC's cause they are the easiest to write. I'm sure if someone with no life sat down and messed with a mac, they would find a way to get a nasty virus in there. Most virus's dont fry your hardware, they multiply like rabbits and chew up all your HDD and RAM Memory, others corupt the kernel... have to format then, and then there is the one percenters that 100% fry your system. Since an OS in ways is considered a piece of hardware, it is easy to fry a system. If the programer know the right code, you can overclock a CPU or GPU to what ever you want. No one is safe from virii, mac's are for now cause no one wants to write one.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules


Nice points, but your statement about the top of the line mac, i was comparing it against a top of the line PC. Yes I know they have dual G4's at 1GHz, AMD have their Athlon MP's at 1.53GHz. Yes I know that the G4 can bench faster than an Intel CPU, but Intel is slow to AMD and the added 500MHz to each CPU makes it up. Plus with DDR RAM and all the Fun stuff, it will still be cheaper than a kickass Mac; most likly faster at that.


I have one word for you, if you think you can get a cutting edge pc for $1500... bullsheet.

Also, on the Mac, we don't have to fork with the bios to do anything. Updating bios under win2k is a pain, where updating the firmware (essentially the same thing) on the Mac is a breeze.

The real use speed difference between pc133 and ddr systems is barely noticeable.

I suppose that you are also one of those people that would take a Ninja style motorcycle over a Harley... pathetic.

[networkman]

i am a microsoft tech as some of you oldtimers know, but i like apple and i do not promote microsoft

...but as a regular computer user and not "power gamer", i do really like the x-box for games

my computers are so attached to my business and "work" in general and i like the "fun" aspect of a gaming box whether it's by microsoft (who has sold tons of these x-box things), the gamecube, or the still super popular playstation 2

i know the gaming magazines like the $2,000 dollar pcs for gaming, but i still have a better experience with the x-box

...so excuse me if i can't feel the superiority of a pc box (my work machines) over a unit designed (with a better graphics chipset according to a gaming magazine i read) for games, and not microsoft word/excel/netscape communicator

[Tandy Rules]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


I have one word for you, if you think you can get a cutting edge pc for $1500... bullsheet.

Also, on the Mac, we don't have to fork with the bios to do anything. Updating bios under win2k is a pain, where updating the firmware (essentially the same thing) on the Mac is a breeze.

The real use speed difference between pc133 and ddr systems is barely noticeable.

I suppose that you are also one of those people that would take a Ninja style motorcycle over a Harley... pathetic.

i never said you can build a cutting edge pc for $1500 i said you could build one with a grand or two to spare.

Also your motorcycle remark, if i were to get a crotch rocket I'ld get a Honda CBR 600 or the 1100, but as far as a crusing bike nothing is like a Harley. If i had 30k to blow I'ld their new bike, the V-Rod... What a Dream!

[jadam]

Alphas arent Dead, go to compaq.com

[DakotaGuy]

Guys, Guys RELAX ...If you just wanna play games just get an Atari! Atari rulez! hehe

[ThlayliTheFierce]

Ok, so Compaq still sells them. But they stopped development (effectively) by selling off the operation to Intel. They will us Itanium in the future. I refer you to this link: http://developer.intel.com/pressroom/archive/releases/20010625corp.htm

[Ouroboros]

:( :( :( I really don't understand a lot of this type of argument. Why would someone compare say a top of the line Apple system to say a top of the line dual Athlon system FOR GAMES???? You have an ENTIRE industry devoted to games, and the systems are sometimes about a tenth of the cost. I have a PS2 and a Gamecube. I make my living off of my B&W G3 (still quite well too)... At the time I bought my computer, I bought some games that took advantage of the then powerful Rage128 card. It was fun. But now, I think it is a pathetic endless run with these games. Why? Because with computer games (unlike platform) you endlessly play catch-up, and with a lot more money lost.

Of course computer game companies are tailoring their games to run at the peak of performance with every new release. Why buy a computer for games, where you end of spending $$1000's, and then play catch-up continually by dropping new cards in every year or so to play "the latest"

For the price of "the latest" graphic card, I can BUY an ENTIRE gaming system, that has titles that are guaranteed to run perfectly on it. I *LOVE* some of these games by the way for the PS2 -- (and let's not forget Soul Calibur for Dreamcast)

This brings me to another point: the whole FPS agrument related to the *quality* if gaming. Look at the XBOX. Are you trying to tell me that because the XBOX has better technical specs that by default it is BETTER?!?! Look at the games that are AVAILABLE on the PS2, the XBOX is for the PeeCee mindset --> The numbers game. It must be good because an x number of polygons can be rendered faster than PS2, and on and on....

I have never had a better gaming experience (personally) than with Soul Calibur for Dreamcast. This is personal of course. But I just can't understand:

*that people would spend thousands on a computer -- for games!!! Only for the rich I guess

*that apple *sucks* because the mhz of their computers isn't up past 2ghz -- the whole computer gaming industry to my eyes is hinged mostly on NVIDIA and ATI

*that quality is always equal to the level of technology. Again, the Dreamcast I thought had some of the best games. Where is the obvious AMAZING great games for the XBOX (sure Halo is cool though!)

*the crux of the argument usually between Macs and PeeCee's is price and performance. Therefore, you can beat both by buying a platform. Sure, in six months maybe there'll be a new graphics card crunching out more polygons, but, so what??!

A blanket statement about Macs like this usually means that they have either had a bad day, are upset because a their Mac crashed, or they aren't laid enough....

Anyway, just some opinions late at night....

[Ifeelbloated]

Can anybody tell me what is the best graphics card to use to get the most out of a work application like Lightwave or Maya?

[Bevel2001]

Macs have always had worse frame rates than PCs - even since Doom 1,2 were released.

OS X has helped but not risen the performance level to the PCs.

Untill Macs have seriously faster chips, at faster GHz than the PC, this is the ways it is (and most likely will always be)!

Macs had a good OS. That was their forté, not games. Even that is comming to an end.

[spikey]

What do you mean coming to an end??? OSX is a great OS, it is powerful and has functionality, it also looks great.

Yeah gaming wise the mac aint up to scratch. but its getting better now apple have a better OS, atleast now its within the realms of possibility

[eXistenZ_ng]

Originally posted by Tandy Rules


Refering to a PC as an IBM is just saying what it really is... for example: I have a Car (I have a PC); I have a Ford, (I have an IBM)

Just wanted to add this one :cool:

I have a Porsche (I have a MAC)

[ThlayliTheFierce]

That's a good one...anyhow, it's not necessarily the fault of Mac OS (9 or X) that they aren't that great for games. The games themselves and the graphics drivers and libraries are almost all written for PC first, then ported to Mac. There just isn't the same level of developement going on. Reason? 5% market share, pure and simple. If Apple had, say 40% market share, you can bet everyone would have titles out, all optimized for OS X, and they would be up to snuff with the PC world. This is the same reason there aren't many Mac viri, it's just not worth the effort. My point is don't fault the platform without looking at the bigger picture.

[eXistenZ_ng]

Isn't it easier now to port games from windows to osx, than it was for windows to os9?