who is the most influential person of the 20th century? 19th century? of all time?

[jefhatfield]

for the 20th century, i will say albert einstein

for the 19th century, at least in the usa, i will say abe lincoln
for the world, i would say queen victoria

for all of history, i will say jesus christ

[rainman::|:|]

Hmm, there are a lot of different ways to be influential... And it depends on where you are and your lifestyle and everything. I think a lot of people might list people they find virtuous, like mother theresa...

that said... the past century, i couldn't really say; the past two centuries Queen Victoria or Benjamin Franklin, perhaps. All time, i'd say you're probably correct, Jesus.

pnw

[vollspacken]

The most influental person???

...myself, muharharhar!!!

[sturm375]

20th: Hitler, even though I don't think he was a nice guy, he certianatly influenced a lot of people.

19th: Ben Franklin?

Of all time: Confusious(sp?).

Although I agree that Jesus Christ was influential, talking numbers, Confusious wins by a large margin.

[wdlove]

20th Winston Churchill with a 2nd to FDR

19th Abraham Lincoln, US and Queen Victoria

All time is Jesus Christ of Nazareth, no contest

[ejb190]

20th Century - Thomas Edison! He was responsible for creating technology companies as we know them today!

19th - Alfred Nobel - He revolutionized industry, war, and peace.

All time - I agree. Jesus Christ

[Durandal7]

19th Century- John Rockefeller, pioneered the massive corporation and set in motion the petrol economy that dominates the world to date.

20th Century- Adolf Hitler, started the biggest war seen to date and changed the political face of the world forever.

Of all time- Jesus Christ

[yzeater]

Here is a man who was born in an obscure village, the child of a peasant woman. He grew up in another village. He worked in a carpenter shop until He was thirty. Then for three years He was an itinerant preacher.

He never owned a home. He never wrote a book. He never held an office. He never had a family. He never went to college. He never put His foot inside a big city. He never traveled two hundred miles from the place He was born. He never did one of the things that usually accompany greatness. He had no credentials but Himself...

While still a young man, the tide of popular opinion turned against him. His friends ran away. One of them denied Him. He was turned over to His enemies. He went through the mockery of a trial. He was nailed upon a cross between two thieves. While He was dying His executioners gambled for the only piece of property He had on earth ? His coat. When He was dead, He was laid in a borrowed grave through the pity of a friend.

Nineteen long centuries have come and gone, and today He is a centerpiece of the human race and leader of the column of progress.

I am far within the mark when I say that all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built; all the parliaments that ever sat and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as has that one solitary life.


"One Solitary Life"
Dr. James Allan Francis

I'd say Jesus

[springscansing]

20th centuary - hmm.. I'd say Hitler/Einstein tossup
19th - Well.. electricity IS pretty badass...
Alltime - Steve Jobs. Easily. Jesus has nothing on the Lisa.

[King Cobra]

20th Century -- Einstien
19th Century -- (I can't think of anyone famous for that time period)

All time -- Johann Gutenberg, inventor of the printing press, resulting in copying machines, resulting in computers/printers, resulting in high speed replicators, resulting in factories and cheap newspapers we can read today. Otherwise, today, we would be reading about AIDS through someone's handwriting, and that person would be paid an awful lot to spend his life writing book after book of the same material. Who would do that now?

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by yzeater
I am far within the mark when I say that all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built; all the parliaments that ever sat and all the kings that ever reigned, put together, have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully as has that one solitary life.


"One Solitary Life"
Dr. James Allan Francis

I'd say Jesus

Actually, without religion, we'd have had so much less war, that " all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built" would have had very little to do.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, we could have skipped the Crusades, World War II, the War on Terror (or Terra, if you're Texan), etc.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, America would be a very diffferent place.

Were it not for Jesus, I could watch CNN without knowing the meaning of the word Hezbollah.

Jesus, Jehovah, Allah, etc. have a lock on this. They've been responsible for a number of deaths that make Hitler look like Manson.

Truly influential.

[Nipsy]

20th-Einstein or Hitler have certainly changed the world the most
19th-Eli Whitney (where would we be without interchangable parts, and the Industrial Revolution)
18th-Ben Franklin
All time-Jesus, the all time biggest savior/killer, cause of warmth and war in equal proportion, and he made kickass cabinets!

[kylos]

Actually, without religion, we'd have had so much less war, that " all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built" would have had very little to do.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, we could have skipped the Crusades, World War II, the War on Terror (or Terra, if you're Texan), etc.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, America would be a very diffferent place.

Were it not for Jesus, I could watch CNN without knowing the meaning of the word Hezbollah.

Jesus, Jehovah, Allah, etc. have a lock on this. They've been responsible for a number of deaths that make Hitler look like Manson.

Truly influential.

You're confusing Jesus and his life and message with what people say they do in his name. If you actually pay attention to history, you'll notice that religion was used as a justification for wars and such, but is rarely, if not ever, the real reason. Humans greed for more possesions and power, but publicly acting on such bases isn't good for public perception, so people try to find a moral reason to cover their greed.

In religious societies, religion is a good cover.
And since religion of some kind has been almost universally present until the last century or two, people relate war with religion. In Germany this last century, religion was passé (I think that's the right word), so Hitler justified his horrible eugenic practices in the name of science. It's not about religion or non-religion, it's about people's greed.

Concerning Jesus, if you did even a quick study of his life and teaching, you'd see he wanted nothing of greed and power. He was all about loving your neighbor and following God's rules (summed up: Love God and love your neighbor, that pretty much covers everything). And he didn't take nonsense either, throwing out merchants in the temple and exposing the hypocrisy of the pharisees. In the Bible it instructs people to "as far as possible live at peace with all men." Look, that's about as far from propagating war as it gets.

Sorry about the rant, but when people ignore all this information about what Jesus is all about and instead say he caused so many problems, they really need to check again.

[Vector]

There was an article some time ago about the most influencial person of the 20th century. Time magazine was doing an issue around 2000 naming the most influential people of the past century. The article, not in Time itself, said that Adolf Hitler had originaly been chosen, but good taste and threats by subscribers to stop buying the magazine prevented Hitler from being chosen as the most influential. The main problem was that they were going to put a picture of hitler on the cover, which for obvious reasons would have offended many and thus hurt sales.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Nipsy


Actually, without religion, we'd have had so much less war, that " all the armies that ever marched, all the navies that were ever built" would have had very little to do.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, we could have skipped the Crusades, World War II, the War on Terror (or Terra, if you're Texan), etc.

Were it not for Jesus, and religion in general, America would be a very diffferent place.

Were it not for Jesus, I could watch CNN without knowing the meaning of the word Hezbollah.

Jesus, Jehovah, Allah, etc. have a lock on this. They've been responsible for a number of deaths that make Hitler look like Manson.

Truly influential.
I would rather have jesus and war than spend eternity in hell. just my feelings though. but i do agree with you kindof. Jesus isnt the reason for all religions. Jesus wasnt the reason terrorists want to kill all of us. Yes religion causes many problems, but only because people differ in religoins. but it all doesnt matter when you die becasue i know where i am going.

iJon

[springscansing]

Originally posted by iJon

I would rather have jesus and war than spend eternity in hell. just my feelings though. but i do agree with you kindof. Jesus isnt the reason for all religions. Jesus wasnt the reason terrorists want to kill all of us. Yes religion causes many problems, but only because people differ in religoins. but it all doesnt matter when you die becasue i know where i am going.

iJon

iJon

Clearly... cause without Jesus you'd just go to hell by default.

[iJon]

Originally posted by springscansing


Clearly... cause without Jesus you'd just go to hell by default.
well said.

iJon

[scem0]

Originally posted by springscansing


Clearly... cause without Jesus you'd just go to hell by default.

Not to mention how everyone is Christian.

[alex_ant]

Makes me glad I wasn't born before Jesus was.

[scem0]

20th century - Winston Churchhill
19th Century - maybe Charles Darwin?
All time - Ts'ai Lun :p

[diorio]

20th- J.R Tolkein/FDR/Hitler
19th- Abe Lincoln
All time- Confusious, due to the fact that more follow his religion than christs

Nineteen long centuries have come and gone, and today He is a centerpiece of the human race and leader of the column of progress.

Yes look how far we have come following him. We've had the Crusades, the Inquition, the Reformation, and now the Middle East Conflict. Oh yeah, he's done great things. Especially for the problem of overpopulation.:rolleyes:

[jefhatfield]

i worry about overpopulation but the big threat to the human race is human nature

i thought when the iron curtain fell apart, the threat of worldwide destruction was over

...but now i am not sure and it's so much more likely for humans to do themselves in through war way before overpopulation becomes a problem

the united states, once respected for being a peacekeeper, is now losing that image worldwide and george w bush is starting to look like a warmonger in their eyes

and as time goes by and i see his actions in office, i am starting to think the same thing, too

now more than ever, in this month, we have less reason to attack iraq...and if we do, we will look like the agressor

it was much different in 1990 when saddam attacked kuwait...at least we had the impresssion that we were defending something/someone for a reason

this time, there is no proof and no reason and it will look like the vietnam war in some ways

if we attack, watch the protests around the world and in your neighborhood happen

i could only hope a reasonable voice like colin powell can convince the president to stay out of a war we have no exit from

[lmalave]

20th Century: Einstein
Keep in mind Einstein's contributions to BOTH Quantum Physics and the Theory of Relativity, and the resulting effects of these theories on both politics and philosopy.

19th Century: Darwin
Not only were his scientific theories earth-shattering, but keep in mind how his "theories" (as they are misinterpreted) are such an important implicit (or sometimes explicit) part of political and socioeconomic discussion to this day

All time: Adam Smith
Founder of Economics

The all time one was hard, but basically it comes down to this: the biggest changes in human history have been 1) the agricultural revolution and 2) the industrial revolution. Since agriculture originated in 3 separate locations (Middle East, China, Central America) after the end of the last ice age, no one person could take the credit even if we could trace it back that far. And no one person can take the credit for the industrial revolution, either, but I believe that Adam Smith had a much, much larger role than any single scientist or inventor. Adam Smith founded the science of economics, meaning the rigorous study of the creation and distribution of resources in society (not just accounting which has been around probably since before writing even). Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nations" was widely read and immediately hugely influential in Britain and the U.S., where the industrial revolution was born. His observations on the benefits of division of labor and of the benefit of trade led *directly* to a rapid escalation in the scale of production - from small artisans shops and guilds to huge mechanized enterprises in a relatively short span of time.

I highly, highly recommend the book "The Worldly Philosophers", which covers the history of economics from Adam Smith to Karl Marx to John Maynard Keynes. The history of economics may not seem like an interesting topic, but the book is AMAZINGLY well written and a real eye-opener. It'll be one of the most thought-provoking books you ever read, trust me.

[faustfire7]

satan for sure

If you believe in all that.

[irmongoose]

19th century: human stupidity

20th century: human stupidity

all time: aliens

but no, I don't believe in the Raelien cloning or whatever... :rolleyes:




irmongoose

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by diorio
Yes look how far we have come following him. We've had the Crusades, the Inquition, the Reformation, and now the Middle East Conflict. Oh yeah, he's done great things. Especially for the problem of overpopulation.:rolleyes:

i believe it's PEOPLE responsible for those things, with their stupidity, greed, pride, etc. not god/jesus/allah/etc.

[trebblekicked]

19th Century: Robert Sideway
20th Century: Kylie Minogue
All Time: Mark Spitz

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by lmalave
20th Century: Einstein
Keep in mind Einstein's contributions to BOTH Quantum Physics and the Theory of Relativity, and the resulting effects of these theories on both politics and philosopy.



i also put einstein but i recently saw a tv show on the life of enrico fermi and he also contributed to nuclear physics and also to a further understanding of electricity and its uses for mankind

something esoteric to do with electrons and harnessing it, neutrons, and some other part of the atom that was found useful for everyday uses years later...i am a techie, but so down on the food chain that i don't quite understand what those parts of an atom have to do with my laptop

i asked my friend who has his phd in cs from stanford and his ba in electronic engineering from mit and he even admitted that it was too esoteric for him to understand and that many high end scientists have followers who overstate their contributions to the point that nobody knows who really did what...and also that scientists also stand on other scientists shoulders who came before them so it's hard to really pinpoint the relevance of a finding

so my friend only told me one can't go back too far and basically he only really knew who did what according to popular urban myth

some say without fermi's groundwork, we would not have come up with consumer electronics, including the computer, so fast

one major revolution, with its importance yet to be fully realized, is the information revolution, and computers are a big part of that

so i will put in a good word for enrico fermi

[diorio]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule


i believe it's PEOPLE responsible for those things, with their stupidity, greed, pride, etc. not god/jesus/allah/etc.

But what do these PEOPLE do it in the name of? Usually a religiously affiliated being.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


i also put einstein but i recently saw a tv show on the life of enrico fermi and he also contributed to nuclear physics and also to a further understanding of electricity and its uses for mankind

something esoteric to do with electrons and harnessing it, neutrons, and some other part of the atom that was found useful for everyday uses years later...i am a techie, but so down on the food chain that i don't quite understand what those parts of an atom have to do with my laptop

i asked my friend who has his phd in cs from stanford and his ba in electronic engineering from mit and he even admitted that it was too esoteric for him to understand and that many high end scientists have followers who overstate their contributions to the point that nobody knows who really did what...and also that scientists also stand on other scientists shoulders who came before them so it's hard to really pinpoint the relevance of a finding

so my friend only told me one can't go back too far and basically he only really knew who did what according to popular urban myth

some say without fermi's groundwork, we would not have come up with consumer electronics, including the computer, so fast

one major revolution, with its importance yet to be fully realized, is the information revolution, and computers are a big part of that

so i will put in a good word for enrico fermi

Fermi was one of the founders of particle physics, but keep in mind that he was born (1901) around the time that Einstein was publishing (1905) his 3 magnificent papers (two on quantum physics, one on relativity) that changed the history of physics forever. What distinguishes these papers is that Einstein was so adept at figuring out what THE critical issue was in the topic he was describing. In his paper on relativity, for example, he began with the postulate that nothing could travel faster than light in a vacuum, and all the math of special relativity (which still stands to this day) falls magically out of that assumption. What really sets Einstein apart is how far ahead he was of his colleagues. When this young patent clerk published those papers in 1905, even all the great minds of the time were absolutely dumfounded.

BTW, what's your friend's name? I was also a EE major at MIT, class of '96. And yes, Quantum Mechanics is so mind-boggling it makes your head hurt. Anyone can understand the basic principles, though. I highly recommend "Quantum Mechanics" by the author Cohen-Tannoudji. It covers the 5 or 6 basic postulates of quantum physics, and you just need to know algebra and a little Calculus to understand it. A real eye-opener - makes you understand how our physical world really works. I really liked my Special Relativity book, but I don't know where it is. For that one all you need to know is a little algebra, and again it's a real eye-opener...

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by lmalave


Fermi was one of the founders of particle physics, but keep in mind that he was born (1901) around the time that Einstein was publishing (1905) his 3 magnificent papers (two on quantum physics, one on relativity) that changed the history of physics forever. What distinguishes these papers is that Einstein was so adept at figuring out what THE critical issue was in the topic he was describing. In his paper on relativity, for example, he began with the postulate that nothing could travel faster than light in a vacuum, and all the math of special relativity (which still stands to this day) falls magically out of that assumption. What really sets Einstein apart is how far ahead he was of his colleagues. When this young patent clerk published those papers in 1905, even all the great minds of the time were absolutely dumfounded.

BTW, what's your friend's name? I was also a EE major at MIT, class of '96. And yes, Quantum Mechanics is so mind-boggling it makes your head hurt. Anyone can understand the basic principles, though. I highly recommend "Quantum Mechanics" by the author Cohen-Tannoudji. It covers the 5 or 6 basic postulates of quantum physics, and you just need to know algebra and a little Calculus to understand it. A real eye-opener - makes you understand how our physical world really works. I really liked my Special Relativity book, but I don't know where it is. For that one all you need to know is a little algebra, and again it's a real eye-opener...

my friend is around 50 so i think he got his ba there in 73, and while he was working on his phd, the school cut his phd program and he was awarded a master's degree...he had to go to stanford in california and start the four year grad program process all over again and he finally got his phd in late-1981 or 82 in artificial intelligence

just last year, he secured a full professorship after teaching nearly two decades...he's not much of a people person so that four year process to real professorship took him 18 years...but at least now, when he retires soon, he will receive full pension

and those jerks at his school, which is not accredited, would not know the f@@@@@@ difference between MIT and MIBII:p :p

[lmalave]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


my friend is around 50 so i think he got his ba there in 73, and while he was working on his phd, the school cut his phd program and he was awarded a master's degree...he had to go to stanford in california and start the four year grad program process all over again and he finally got his phd in late-1981 or 82 in artificial intelligence

just last year, he secured a full professorship after teaching nearly two decades...he's not much of a people person so that four year process to real professorship took him 18 years...but at least now, when he retires soon, he will receive full pension

and those jerks at his school, which is not accredited, would not know the f@@@@@@ difference between MIT and MIBII:p :p

Ha, ok, '73 was the year I was born...
Glad to know your friend made professor. Part of me still envies the people who stay in academia. I would say most MIT students end up feeling like sellouts at some level when they take a corporate job, since most go to MIT with dreams of making a significant contribution to science. At least this was the case before the bling-bling late 90's. Now I reckon a lot of MIT students dream of making a quick buck taking their start-ups public :rolleyes:

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by lmalave


Ha, ok, '73 was the year I was born...
Glad to know your friend made professor. Part of me still envies the people who stay in academia. I would say most MIT students end up feeling like sellouts at some level when they take a corporate job, since most go to MIT with dreams of making a significant contribution to science. At least this was the case before the bling-bling late 90's. Now I reckon a lot of MIT students dream of making a quick buck taking their start-ups public :rolleyes:

my friend grew up poor and eventually his family made it into the middle class

so i suspect he felt a great need for economic security so instead of getting an esteemed job at a great university for less money, he took a job at a relatively unknown school for more money

i know he could care less about becoming a famous scientist, he just wanted more than anything to buy a house and get the darned thing paid off which he finally did

he hates his job with a passion and he hates his field, but he recently sank 100k into his house for remodel stuff and he will have to stick out another 4 1/2 years to retirement and hopes his pay and following pension will get hi back on track

a lot of brilliant scientists probably have to deal more with bills than revolutionary findings and i wonder what would have happened if my friend took the intellectual path instead of the path to financial security

his school dumbs down the material to a level where it disgusts my friend and i don't think he is allowed to give them bad grades since its a lock step system where everybody who enters graduates

it's not about making his students better at the given topic he may be teaching, it's a quota of so many people that have to get graduated in order to keep up a budget requirement for government allotments

he teaches at a government/military establishment and their ideas of education are much different than a real school which is about learning

if his school does not graduate their people and they don't move on in the government and military, then funding is cut and the military industrialist complex has a hissyfit

and my friend is also a liberal democrat and this makes his job even that much more unbearable but he chose the path of getting his house paid off at all costs

this is the great dilemna of the american dream for some people and the older one gets, the more compromise and sacrifices that have to be made

[lmalave]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


my friend grew up poor and eventually his family made it into the middle class

so i suspect he felt a great need for economic security so instead of getting an esteemed job at a great university for less money, he took a job at a relatively unknown school for more money

i know he could care less about becoming a famous scientist, he just wanted more than anything to buy a house and get the darned thing paid off which he finally did

he hates his job with a passion and he hates his field, but he recently sank 100k into his house for remodel stuff and he will have to stick out another 4 1/2 years to retirement and hopes his pay and following pension will get hi back on track

a lot of brilliant scientists probably have to deal more with bills than revolutionary findings and i wonder what would have happened if my friend took the intellectual path instead of the path to financial security

his school dumbs down the material to a level where it disgusts my friend and i don't think he is allowed to give them bad grades since its a lock step system where everybody who enters graduates

it's not about making his students better at the given topic he may be teaching, it's a quota of so many people that have to get graduated in order to keep up a budget requirement for government allotments

he teaches at a government/military establishment and their ideas of education are much different than a real school which is about learning

if his school does not graduate their people and they don't move on in the government and military, then funding is cut and the military industrialist complex has a hissyfit

and my friend is also a liberal democrat and this makes his job even that much more unbearable but he chose the path of getting his house paid off at all costs

this is the great dilemna of the american dream for some people and the older one gets, the more compromise and sacrifices that have to be made

Sorry to hear about your friend's distaste for his work :(

Sounds like should've been even more of a sellout and working for a big corp. in Silicon Valley or something...

Personally, I ended up going into tech consulting because that's where all the jobs and money were in the late 90's. Now, just to be even more of a sellout, I'm working on an MBA. Doesn't get more sellout than that :p

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by lmalave


working on an MBA. Doesn't get more sellout than that :p

i was going for the mba sometime back, dropped out to try and make it like a lot of people in the late 90s, and was even a vp of a dot.com in san jose...then it all fell apart...oh well

but now i am in a more humble place in high tech with my own business fixing machines for homes and businesses

btw...where are you doing your mba?

[lmalave]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


i was going for the mba sometime back, dropped out to try and make it like a lot of people in the late 90s, and was even a vp of a dot.com in san jose...then it all fell apart...oh well

but now i am in a more humble place in high tech with my own business fixing machines for homes and businesses

btw...where are you doing your mba?

Doing a part-time MBA at NYU (Stern). Quite happy with it - quite intellectually stimulating, actually (my Intro to Economics class was where I read that book Worldly Philosophers). I too am in a more humble place after flying high with Razorfish during the boom years (not VP like you, but I was a tech manager) and then freelancing as a consultant. After not getting any work for 8 months, though, I went back and took a job at a large investment bank, earning about the same as I was in '99 :(

And hey, if your friend grew up poor, then I applaud him for going for the bucks. I also grew up poor (my current middle-class salary is about 5 times what my mom earned raising 2 kids on her own). And I basically came to the conclusion, as a liberal democrat, that the best thing I can do is make as much money as possible. Do anything less, and you'll have smarmy Rush Limbaugh dittohead Republicans saying things like "if you're so smart, then why are you so poor". Ultimately, the only way to combat hateful Social Darwinist ideas is to refute them directly by example.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by lmalave


Doing a part-time MBA at NYU (Stern). Quite happy with it - quite intellectually stimulating, actually (my Intro to Economics class was where I read that book Worldly Philosophers). I too am in a more humble place after flying high with Razorfish during the boom years (not VP like you, but I was a tech manager) and then freelancing as a consultant. After not getting any work for 8 months, though, I went back and took a job at a large investment bank, earning about the same as I was in '99 :(

And hey, if your friend grew up poor, then I applaud him for going for the bucks. I also grew up poor (my current middle-class salary is about 5 times what my mom earned raising 2 kids on her own). And I basically came to the conclusion, as a liberal democrat, that the best thing I can do is make as much money as possible. Do anything less, and you'll have smarmy Republicans saying things like "if you're so smart, then why are you so poor". Ultimately, the only way to combat hateful Social Darwinist ideas is to refute them directly by example.

i heard of stern...very highly regarded

sometimes traders can make really good money, sometimes not...but since you are in new york, you may be around when wall street gets hot again and maybe you can go along for the ride

i listen to moneytalk on abc radio and it really surprises me how complex playing the market can be...bill brinker, the host and longtime trader is so often wrong but maybe his track record is slightly better than the trader down the street in anywhere, usa

but anyway, good luck in the world of banking...it's a heck of lot safer than high tech;)

[lmalave]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


i heard of stern...very highly regarded

sometimes traders can make really good money, sometimes not...but since you are in new york, you may be around when wall street gets hot again and maybe you can go along for the ride

i listen to moneytalk on abc radio and it really surprises me how complex playing the market can be...bill brinker, the host and longtime trader is so often wrong but maybe his track record is slightly better than the trader down the street in anywhere, usa

but anyway, good luck in the world of banking...it's a heck of lot safer than high tech;)

Yeah, Stern's tops for part time (and top-10 for full time). Actually, though I'm a Finance major my work right now is on the tech side as a database developer (Sybase, ugh). I do indeed plan to switch to the finance side of things and make the big bucks. Hopefully then after one or two years of big bonuses I can go back into tech and start my own ventures.

Anyway, good luck with your own biz. Everybody's predicting a tech upturn in 2003 now (though the broader market may not necessarily follow).