gaming rig

[GonzoRob]

Well, ater months of using a humble 12" powerbook as my only computer the lack of PPC games and poor frames-per-second has finally got the better of me..
I've decided to spend some cash i've saved up ... but on what ?

Options are:

1) buy a macbook pro - hope windows can be installed on it, or (more likely) help out with the winex devlopement (with figers crossed that Source might work)
I cant help but feel that winex games will never run with huge fps in Darwin (similar to linux at best ) and 'net gen' games such as Quake Wars will probably not run at all..

or

2) buy a PC and use a KVM switch to jump from my main OS (OSX on my Powerbook) to windows.


What would you guys do ?

Rob

PS: portability isnt really an issue - my PB12" would do ...

[Dagless]

Get a PC. it's always going to be the easiest option than messing around with dual booting windows. I'd say forget the dual boot option for a long time. It's going to be ages until they get the working perfectly.

just for gaming, mind you :) *I'm planning on something similar*

[pknz]

Game consoles.

PS2, Xbob, Xbob 360, PS3, PSP, DS, Gamcube, N64, N-Gage etc

[wangahrah]

Unless you prefer consoles, which I certainly don't, build a PC. It'll blow framerates of any mac out of the water, and you can use your mac for everything the rest of the time. I'm workin on putting together my own system...for around $800 you can build a fairly amazing system.

Be careful with KVMs. Make sure it has USB for your mac, and most have ps/2 inputs for mouse and keyboards. I got one for about $25 on newegg that works well with ps/2 keyboard/trackball.

[muffinman]

yeah a pc

[reberto]

Build a PC. And when you do, go AMD. They are the BEST for gaming. I highly recomend the Opteron server processor. I have one and it is AWESOME! It is basically an Athlon 64 with a 1 meg L2 cache and can be overclocked to 3ghz on stock cooling. Just don't fry the CPU, you will void the warrenty if you don't use it in a server but it is worth it.

[greatdevourer]

Get a PC with an Opteron 165/170 and OC it (not to 3Ghz, though - 2 cores at 3Ghz blows almost instantly)

[GonzoRob]

right, a PC it is then !

thanks for all the help.
I was thinking about getting a shuttle (SN25p) ATI X1800 or x1900 a 4600+ AMD duel core and 2 gig of ram .. should be quite a good gaming rig...

Does anyone have any advice on which make of KVM switch I should buy?
I bought one a few years back and its rubbish (it gets confused really easily)

R

[Piarco]

I had a similar dilemma around late Sept early Oct, and decided to start builing a new gaming PC. Got the case (Chieftec Dragon Mini), SLi Mobo, opticals, modular SLi compliant PSU, one of two planned HDD's, most of the cooling solution, UV wrapped all cables and installed 2 4" UV lights. All I need then are the drop-ins... CPU (AMD64. Possibly dual core), 2GB memory, and 2x7800GT/GTX's. Plus the final high capacity HDD.

The I heard a lot more about the 360 and did some research. I was impressed by the specs enough to give it a go... particularly as it was about a 5th of the cost of the total computer build.

Since my 360 has arrived my PB build has stalled. I've got use to the console controller a lot quicker than I ever thought I would, and for the time being, I'm not planning on carrying on the build. When 7800GT's are around £150, I may finish it - but for the time being I'm a console convert. And coming from a hardcore PC gamer thats something I thought I'd never say!

Just a thought for you...

[GonzoRob]

i agree the 360 does look like value for money. I tried to convert to consoles not long ago (bought a xbox and chipped it ) however, as a first-person-shooter fiend, nothing can beat a key/b and mouse. Also, the next gen consoles really need a TV that can do 720i to see the improvement, which my tv cant hack :)

Thinking about it, if the 360 could output at standard pc resolutions (1280x1024 etc) I'd buy one in a shot ..

Dont get me wrong, I love having a few beers with mates and having a bash on the console.. but online fps's are usually done on your own and require massive detail etc

R

[Capt Underpants]

I was in the same situation a year ago, and I decided to go with building a PC. Since then, I haven't looked back. Definitely build the gaming PC.

[robo74]

I was faced with a similar decesion last week. I sold my iMac G5 with hopes to get something a bit better for games. My daughter has the Xbox and PS2 thing wrapped up, and those things just never excited me. So I forced with the decesion of the intel macs or PC builds. After much reading on pc gamers forums and such, I came to the decesion of the PC, it just has too many advantages. So I purchased a 1.5 mac mini for my web/email/backup stuff and just ordered the parts for the makings of a PC. Its going to be nice to be able to go to a "game night" with my buddies and actually keep up. And now I can even go when they play games that are only on windows.

I still hold my hopes up tho that the intel macs will get more companies to make software for them and that they will actually be real good for games some day.
Been a mac switcher since 1999.. it was a real tough decesion :confused:


Good luck
Rob O

[Dagless]

Don't go for AMD though. There's a reason why Apple went with Intel. Intel is just bursting with quality and power (In my typing rush I wrote 'amd' instead of 'and' ;) ). Seriously there are too many bad stories about AMD over heating, crappy motherboards, bad performance with wrong configs etc. They cost more but Intel are the quality choice.

[robo74]

They cost more but Intel are the quality choice.

Dont forget slower choice as well.

[greatdevourer]

Don't go for AMD though. There's a reason why Apple went with Intel. Intel is just bursting with quality and power (In my typing rush I wrote 'amd' instead of 'and' ;) ). Seriously there are too many bad stories about AMD over heating, crappy motherboards, bad performance with wrong configs etc. They cost more but Intel are the quality choice. Odd, because all the experiences of myself and people I know are the other way round. As far as I remember, the reason for Intel over AMD is partly because of brand-name (everyone knows "Intel Inside", but almost no-one knows of AMD) and partly because of supply problems (AMD lack in this area)

[TheGimp]

I say buy a 360 now and milk it for all it's worth. While it doesn't have many smashing titles, the half dozen or so (more if you count sports) it does have now combined with the *few* amazing looking titles to come out in the next several months as well as with the handful of amazingly fun and inexpensive xbox live arcade titles, should hold you over for at least ~9 months if multiplayer gameplay is factored in.

After that, you can sell the 360 (or keep it if its game library turns out to be spectacular) and its games/accessories for a few hundred bucks, add that money to that which you've been saving, and finally get a then-current killer PC rig. There has been much advice on the web to wait a while longer before investing in a gaming PC, as a few groundbreaking technologies are about to be released, which unfortunately I can't recall right now but impressed be when I first read about them. (may have something to do with dual 3D video card support, or maybe something specific to the CPU or bus)

Regarding what someone said above about the 360 not displaying at "standard resolutions such as 1280x1024", I believe you are incorrect. I've read several accounts of people choosing that resolu(i.e. getting an effective 1280x720 with approximately 150 lines worth of letterbox on both top and bottom) on their non-widescreen computer CRTs and LCDs.

[Capt Underpants]

Don't go for AMD though. There's a reason why Apple went with Intel. Intel is just bursting with quality and power (In my typing rush I wrote 'amd' instead of 'and' ;) ). Seriously there are too many bad stories about AMD over heating, crappy motherboards, bad performance with wrong configs etc. They cost more but Intel are the quality choice.

AMD definitely outpowers Intel for the buck, and even on the top end. AMD still rules the gaming arena, though that could soon change. The AMD Athlon X2 runs cooler than Dual core prntiums, so I don't know where you are hearing stories of them overheating. Check tomshardware.com

[reberto]

right, a PC it is then !

thanks for all the help.
I was thinking about getting a shuttle (SN25p) ATI X1800 or x1900 a 4600+ AMD duel core and 2 gig of ram .. should be quite a good gaming rig...

Does anyone have any advice on which make of KVM switch I should buy?
I bought one a few years back and its rubbish (it gets confused really easily)

R
Don't get an ATI card. In tests, they are slower than the 7800GTX. And also, if you get a single core opteron, you can go to 3 ghz but don't try it with a low end dual core opteron, you'll kill it (unless you want to vapor cool it.....)

[GonzoRob]

i've never really been an intel fan.. simply because of the speed and cost ratio. ATI vs Nvidia, for an all round (linux-ready) pc, i'd go with nvidia.. for power an X1900 does run rings around an Nvidia (according to toms hardware)

I basically want something that can run all doom3 engine games at 1280x1024 res (my 17" sony's maximum res) with massive details. I'm all exciting about et:quake wars and ut3 engine .. so it'll have to be a bit of a beast.
I really dont want to have to think about an upgrade for another year or two.. any tips for the best 'next-gen' game hardware (aside from speed,speed,speed :) ) ?


Rob

[reberto]

I really dont want to have to think about an upgrade for another year or two.. any tips for the best 'next-gen' game hardware (aside from speed,speed,speed :) ) ?


Rob
Well you could get...

AMD Opteron 170 Dual core
ASUS SLI motherboard
2x 7800GTX's
2 gigs dual channel ram
Western Digital Raptor boot drive
320 gig SATA games and music drive
two DVD+(-) RW drives
a mid-tower raidmax case
a 17' LCD (if you go to lan parties) or a 19' LCD if you don't lan

[jamesi]

alright getting windows on a macbook pro is crazy talk. even if you can manage to get windows on it, it wont run full speed and the amount of work wont be worth it. buy a pc, there is no shame in it. i have one for gaming too and it makes sense. games are optimized for windows anyways, games on a mac are so rare. dont buy a mac to plays games, its simple. consoles are a cheaper solution to buying a pc fyi

[iPoster]

Don't go for AMD though. There's a reason why Apple went with Intel. Intel is just bursting with quality and power (In my typing rush I wrote 'amd' instead of 'and' ;) ). Seriously there are too many bad stories about AMD over heating, crappy motherboards, bad performance with wrong configs etc. They cost more but Intel are the quality choice.

I have an Athlon64 3400+ in my gaming PC, running F@H 24/7 plus games, using stock cooler I've never had a single problem so far. Runs @50C at 100% load. :D

[cantthinkofone]

I would go with AMD because they are cheaper, and will perform just as well as a intel that costs 100+ more. But, if you want a really nice gaming rig, go with intel because intel boards support DDR2, and AMD boards dont yet. I built mine last year for about 1000. Never let me down in gaming.

[eXan]

If i were you, I would get either MacBookPro, or wait for rev B MBP.

In your case, however, I think you should get a really nice PC (hmm PCs cant be nice at all :rolleyes: )

[jamesi]

lol, the guy aboves recommends getting a macbook? is he serious. you still wont be able to play games even tho its an intel chip. get a pc for gaming, athlon rigs are pretty good for power and if you want to save some money.
i know some guy wrote that intel is better and "apple chose intel for a reason" but thats terrible evidence for going intel. apple chose intel b/c they needed someone to rely on so who better than the reigning king of chips. intel gaming rigs are good too but they just tend to cost more. in the end, its the video card and not the cpu that ends up making the most difference.

[greatdevourer]

Well you could get...

AMD Opteron 170 Dual core
ASUS SLI motherboard
2x 7800GTX's
2 gigs dual channel ram
Western Digital Raptor boot drive
320 gig SATA games and music drive
two DVD+(-) RW drives
a mid-tower raidmax case
a 17' LCD (if you go to lan parties) or a 19' LCD if you don't lan Heyull no! If you're running 7800GTX SLi, then you want at least a 2005FPW, probably a 2405FPW (except I'd wait till the 2407FPW comes out later this year). And you want to overclock that processor (they'll easily do 2.4Ghz, some do 2.7Ghz). And getting 2 320GB SATA drives and RAIDing them is nice idea as well

If you want The Biatch™ and live in the UK, then let me build it for you ;) If you don't live in the UK, then just PM me and I'll send you the componant list

[jamesi]

dude opterons are not the greatest for gaming but if you really wanna....

[GonzoRob]

dude opterons are not the greatest for gaming but if you really wanna....

Thats what I heard... an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ (2.2 ghz with 1 meg of L2 cache) would probably do just as well .. and save quite a bit :)

I had no idea that Intel mobo's were the only ones supporting DDR2 ram, thats crazy!
What kind of speed difference is there between the two ? Is it worth spending the extra on an Intel for?

R

[greatdevourer]

dude opterons are not the greatest for gaming but if you really wanna.... There's actually very little difference - mostly that Opterons have double the L2 Cache (which is better for gaming anyways) and that you can run Opterons in a dual-die setup (can't say dual processor anymore). Plus, Opterons overclock a lot easier (can you say 2.7Ghz?)

[GonzoRob]

Opteron's used to have double, with the 4400+ AMD64x2's upwards the L2 cache has been upped to 1 meg ... If you want two meg of L2 cache, use a pentium M (shuttle have just released a new pentium M based system that looks interesting)...

After custom making Pc's for 10 years I've come to the conclusion that shuttles are the way forward ;)

R

[greatdevourer]

Opteron's used to have double, with the 4400+ AMD64x2's upwards the L2 cache has been upped to 1 meg ... If you want two meg of L2 cache, use a pentium M (shuttle have just released a new pentium M based system that looks interesting)...

After custom making Pc's for 10 years I've come to the conclusion that shuttles are the way forward ;)

R Oh yeah! Shuttle cases are sooo nice :D I like small yet powerful computers

[robo74]

Just a little update on my post I made on page 1.
I purchased all the making for a pc, and I was on a tight budget.
I think I spent about $650 total and thats with reusing a hard drive, so I didnt have to buy one of those.
This is what I came up with.

AMD64 XP 3200+
1Gig Ram
Asus A8N-E Mobo
DVD-RW Drive
Sapphire X800GTO Fireblade 256MB PCIe Video
And some fancy, but rather cheap Case.
And For now, I just reused a 40Gig 7200 Hard drive I had
I finally got eveything put together Friday night.
Only real game I have for it is WOW, but UT and Halo are on there way.

I must say, I dont know why I waited to do this.
I have all my settings on WOW cranked to the highest, and I am getting double the performance on my PC then I did on my iMac G5 2.0Ghz(rev B)
And this machine cost half of what the iMac did.
This is what gets me reallu fustrated with macs...
But someday I hope that changes, for now tho, I am really happy with a Cheap pc that is fully upgradeable.

Rob

[reberto]

Plus, Opterons overclock a lot easier (can you say 2.7Ghz?) Can you say 3 ghz on air cooling?

[reberto]

AMD64 XP 3200+
1Gig Ram
Asus A8N-E Mobo
DVD-RW Drive
Sapphire X800GTO Fireblade 256MB PCIe Video
And some fancy, but rather cheap Case.
And For now, I just reused a 40Gig 7200 Hard drive I had
I finally got eveything put together Friday night.
Only real game I have for it is WOW, but UT and Halo are on there way.



Rob

Everything but the video card and HD looks good...

[cgratti]

Get a PC, Macs are great but cannot compete with PC's for gaming. Coders spend about half the time on Mac versions of a game than the PC version.

They tend to put much more effort and detail into the PC version, and rightfully so. Mac gaming is almost nonexistant.

[robo74]

Everything but the video card and HD looks good...


Why do you say that?
Is it because it has only 12 pipelines instead of 16?
Is it because it smokes some of the more expensive 6800 cards when overclocked?
Or is it because it was only $160 and I didnt spend $600 on a video card?

The hard drive... it holds data..its not slow, and thats that.

Once again.. it was a PC put together on a budget... I am not going to blow $1400 on something thats obsolete in 1 week. But it performs better then my iMac G5, and I am very happy with it.

Rob

[GonzoRob]

Why do you say that?
Is it because it has only 12 pipelines instead of 16?
Is it because it smokes some of the more expensive 6800 cards when overclocked?
Or is it because it was only $160 and I didnt spend $600 on a video card?


well, with computer folk - its usually the latter ;)

I remember when I bought a Geforce 3 (just after the doom 3 demo was shown to the public) - Nvidia claimed that the card's internal software/shader effects (cant remember the exact term) could be dynamically updated so it would never be out of date - what a load of rubbish.
Today it's a guessing game to which cards 'special effects' features will end up becoming next years gaming standard. Recently, with the X1900, it's the hyped up softshadows and the ten billion (or whatever) over-sampling ... *sigh*

lets face it, whatever card you buy, next years graphics engines will render it obsolete because some CEO has decided that last years gfx technology is redundant and the game *must* use some elaborate shader engine (or whatever the latest fad is) dreamed up by Nvidia/ATI the week previously...
(slight rant ;) )

R

[aussie_geek]

I am in the same position as well. Mac gaming sux. This year will hopefully be a good one ($$$ wise) so that I can get one myself. A KVM switch is the go as well.

I don't know much about pc's though - should I make one up myself or get one already made?

aussie_geek

[greatdevourer]

well, with computer folk - its usually the latter ;)

I remember when I bought a Geforce 3 (just after the doom 3 demo was shown to the public) - Nvidia claimed that the card's internal software/shader effects (cant remember the exact term) could be dynamically updated so it would never be out of date - what a load of rubbish.
Today it's a guessing game to which cards 'special effects' features will end up becoming next years gaming standard. Recently, with the X1900, it's the hyped up softshadows and the ten billion (or whatever) over-sampling ... *sigh*

lets face it, whatever card you buy, next years graphics engines will render it obsolete because some CEO has decided that last years gfx technology is redundant and the game *must* use some elaborate shader engine (or whatever the latest fad is) dreamed up by Nvidia/ATI the week previously...
(slight rant ;) )

R Yeah, but it's good for the consumer, becase last years Best Of The Best Award Winning GXTX (ever noticed how the graphics industry love the letters G, T and X?) is now only £80 :D

[GonzoRob]

Yeah, but it's good for the consumer, becase last years Best Of The Best Award Winning GXTX (ever noticed how the graphics industry love the letters G, T and X?) is now only £80 :D

very true :D
God knows why ... perhaps ..
G - graphics
X - 'Xtreme"
T- err? Technology

oh yes ... and 'Pro'

so

X20000XTGT Pro will probably be next years ATI.. whilst Nvidia will for the Ultra Geforce FX<generic long number> MX GX XT.

[gammamonk]

For Gaming, do you guys really use LCD? I have a really nice Sony LCD 19" but a decent CRT is still so much better for gaming. LCD's ghost, there's just no way around it.

[GonzoRob]

For Gaming, do you guys really use LCD? I have a really nice Sony LCD 19" but a decent CRT is still so much better for gaming. LCD's ghost, there's just no way around it.

I also use a new sony 17" TFT (i think it does the same res as the 19") it does 8ms, which is fine for me - also doesnt blur :) So im happy, CRT's are way too big..
R

[greatdevourer]

For Gaming, do you guys really use LCD? I have a really nice Sony LCD 19" but a decent CRT is still so much better for gaming. LCD's ghost, there's just no way around it. LCDs have come on a long way (from about 25ms/15" to 11ms/30"), and if you want hi-res at a reasonable price, you have to go LCD

[topgunn]

For Gaming, do you guys really use LCD? I have a really nice Sony LCD 19" but a decent CRT is still so much better for gaming. LCD's ghost, there's just no way around it.
It's a matter of preference. I cannot see any ghosting on my 2005fpw but other people complain that they can. I play Half Life 2 on it and I have looked for ghosting but cannot see any indication that its there.

[reberto]

For Gaming, do you guys really use LCD? I have a really nice Sony LCD 19" but a decent CRT is still so much better for gaming. LCD's ghost, there's just no way around it.
What world do you live in? LCD's have come a LONG way in the past 3 years. You can now get a 19' Dell LCD w/ 8ms response times for less than $280. Not to be rude but, do some research before you post things like this.

[ReanimationLP]

Build a PC. And when you do, go AMD. They are the BEST for gaming. I highly recomend the Opteron server processor. I have one and it is AWESOME! It is basically an Athlon 64 with a 1 meg L2 cache and can be overclocked to 3ghz on stock cooling. Just don't fry the CPU, you will void the warrenty if you don't use it in a server but it is worth it.

The warranty is not voided when not used in a server. Its actually meant to be a server and workstation processor. Now, your warranty will be void if you fry it from overclocking it too high. I dont really recommend OC'ing it to 3 GHz personally. Unless you have some really, really, nice water cooling. o.o