Help me get Aspyr to patch SimCity 4

[mcgarry]

I have been in contact with Aspyr tech support for 3 months now. It's a long story, but I'll try to keep it as brief as possible

The issue: SimCity 4 became unplayable after updating to 10.4.3 on my PowerBook (10.4.4 is the same). The game will launch, but plays extremely, unplayably slow, and is riddled with graphics anomalies. Yes, I am aware of the speed/graphics difficulties with this game as reported in the past, in this forum and elsewhere; this issue is different, clearly some sort of bug. The game did play normally up to and including 10.4.2.

Yes, I could install a partition on my HDD with a different version of the OS, just to play SC4, but I'd really rather not waste all that space just for this. The problem should be fixed. I've tried every other workaround they suggested, to no avail.

Aspyr has recognized and reproduced the problem in their lab, or so they tell me. It only affects computers with the nVidia GeForce FX Go5200 (so, the rev. B-D 12" PowerBook G4), running Mac OS X 10.4.3 or later. All versions of the game are affected: standard, standard w/ expansion pack, and complete.

Aspyr has told me that because they have not received enough complaints about this admitted bug, they have prioritized it as 'low' and will not 'move it up the priority list' (and publish a patch) unless they hear from more disgruntled users.

So, if you're out there, please write to Aspyr, using the form at support.aspyr.com (http://support.aspyr.com). I'm not asking anyone to lie, hopefully posting this will lead to some legitimate responses, light a fire under Aspyr, and get this fixed. This is not an altogether unwarranted hope, they have encouraged my suggestion to do this.

By the way, soon after 10.4.3 came out, Aspyr issued Patch C (http://www.aspyr.com/detail.php?p_support_article_id=1214&p_game_id=156) for The Sims 2 which "Fixes a conflict with NVIDIA video cards and OS X 10.4.3." So, I think they know how to fix this, they just need to get someone on it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[pknz]

This game is unplayable on my iMac.

[mcgarry]

This game is unplayable on my iMac.

Well, write them about that too, I guess!

The first-level/tech support people, at least, seem helpful, they just punt responsibility to the developers, rightly or wrongly.

[benpatient]

i think what he meant was that he won't contact them because his computer can't play the game anyway.

i think you're high and dry here. It doesn't make financial sense for them to spend money developing a patch for an extremely small base of users: Owners of 12" powerbook G4s with the 5200go chip who want to play a game that was released so long ago that the official website's latest "news" is from december 2004. Not exactly worth the risk that their patch breaks the game for some other small group of players, is it?

If you can figure out a work-around on your end, and you really want to play the game (it is quite fun), then i'd suggest you do it.

[paddy]

I had the same problem after updating to 10.4.3 on my iMac, game slowdown and graphic display problems. I'm writing to Aspyr now.:mad:

[mcgarry]

You're right, except the bit about the game being old. They just released the "Deluxe" edition (http://www.aspyr.com/games.php/mac/10830/) in October 2005, and it is similarly afflicted. It is on the shelf for sale in Apple Stores everywhere, among other places.

That, and I still think that a company selling a product that is listed as compatible with my machine (both on their website and via their GameAgent program) should, in fact, try to make sure it's compatible. Remember, we're talking about a currently shipping/supported piece of software and a currently shipping/supported computer (Rev. D 12" PB). It might be idealistic of me, but I still think it's worth bugging them.

i think what he meant was that he won't contact them because his computer can't play the game anyway.

i think you're high and dry here. It doesn't make financial sense for them to spend money developing a patch for an extremely small base of users: Owners of 12" powerbook G4s with the 5200go chip who want to play a game that was released so long ago that the official website's latest "news" is from december 2004. Not exactly worth the risk that their patch breaks the game for some other small group of players, is it?

If you can figure out a work-around on your end, and you really want to play the game (it is quite fun), then i'd suggest you do it.

[mcgarry]

Thank you! By the way, which iMac do you have/what gpu does it have? The later G4s and the early G5s used the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra; maybe the problem is closely related.

I had the same problem after updating to 10.4.3 on my iMac, game slowdown and graphic display problems. I'm writing to Aspyr now.:mad:

[benpatient]

i was referring to the simcity website, not the port's website.

i tend to forget that mac games are 18-24 months behind since i built my PC...

[Laser47]

Wow I thought I was the only one with this problem. SC4 completely sucks on my ibook, although its playable to an extent its very annoying seeing the screen toolbars move down the screen and the picture freezing, they have a patch somewhere I downloaded it but it still does not fix anything. Because of my love for the sims and sim city I now have a copy of SC4 for my mac and a copy I recently bought for my PC just to play it. I would love to play SC4 in other places with my ibook other than on the PC. I hope this problem is resolved soon.

[mcgarry]

DEFINITELY, please, write to them at http://support.aspyr.com. This might be more widespread than the 5200-series cards.

Again, in my case this does not refer to the general reported crappiness of this game on the Mac (though, by the way, I was reading on some PC forums that it doesn't play well on many PCs, either), but rather to a significannt and noticeable downturn in performance and graphics from 10.4.3 on.

They need to hear from more people. If they want to say that actually this game is not compatible with certain computers or certain versions of the o/s, I'm fine with that, that's their right; but, they shouldn't be selling incompatible software as compatible.

Wow I thought I was the only one with this problem. SC4 completely sucks on my ibook, although its playable to an extent its very annoying seeing the screen toolbars move down the screen and the picture freezing, they have a patch somewhere I downloaded it but it still does not fix anything. Because of my love for the sims and sim city I now have a copy of SC4 for my mac and a copy I recently bought for my PC just to play it. I would love to play SC4 in other places with my ibook other than on the PC. I hope this problem is resolved soon.

[Arnaud]

DEFINITELY, please, write to them at http://support.aspyr.com. This might be more widespread than the 5200-series cards.

Hi there, I don't use SC4, I think it's a nice game but I've got other things to do...

Nevertheless, I wish you good luck, because I really think this software should work on your computer, as it was stated as such.

No matter the cost for them, that's their part of the deal.

[mcgarry]

The posts from pknz and Laser47 got me thinking ... did anyone buy the game and start using it in 10.4.3? The "Complete" edition and 10.4.3 came out around the same time, so it's possible.

There may be some users out there who just think it runs super-bad no matter what, and never saw how much better it was under previous OS versions... just a thought.

[Laser47]

Oh and ive never played the game before 10.4.4. I wonder which update broke the game.

[mcgarry]

Oh, I can pretty safely say it was 10.4.3.

Oh and ive never played the game before 10.4.4. I wonder which update broke the game.

Think if the implications of this ... you can buy current shipping software for your currently shipping hardware, that the company says is compatible, but it isn't. Makes me never want to buy another Aspyr product ever again; can they be trusted?

And yes, I realize there are implications for letting every disgruntled customer dictate a product's patching schedule, but in this case I think Aspyr should have long since addressed it (as they did with The Sims 2). I say, if you aren't going to stand behind a product, don't sell it. Or at least let your customers know what, in reality, is or isn't compatible.

I'd again like to say that Aspyr tech support has been great to me, in terms of attention/cordiality and a general sense that they'd like to help, it's just that they haven't been able to actually help.

[Laser47]

Just as an update, I sent an email to them and got the reply today. All they said was that it supports OSX and that if I have a problem to contact the hardware manufacturer. Yay, what a big help.:mad:

[mcgarry]

That must have been the first-level tech support. Sorry they weren't helpful. I have pm'd you with the email address of a higher level contact. He should be interested to hear from you. Anyone else who has experienced this problem and wants to get in touch with him-- the person at Aspyr who encouraged me to solicit more dissatisfied user stories-- please pm me.

By the way, I was told to bug Apple too. At one step along the line, I was even told to take my computer to a Genius Bar at an Apple store and duplicate the problem in front of a Genius. I did, and guess what, they told me what I already knew: yes, something is wrong, contact Aspyr.

Just as an update, I sent an email to them and got the reply today. All they said was that it supports OSX and that if I have a problem to contact the hardware manufacturer. Yay, what a big help.:mad:

[szwork]

i'm going to write as well

just bought the game,
i did play it on windows but now all my windows pc's are gone so is was time to play it on my mac

it goes so slow, when i zoom is terrible.
just not playable

system
mac mini 1,5 ghz (got lucky)
1024 mb ram
64 mb video
5400 rpm hd

[szwork]

i'm going to write as well

just bought the game,
i did play it on windows but now all my windows pc's are gone so is was time to play it on my mac

it goes so slow, when i zoom is terrible.
just not playable

system
mac mini 1,5 ghz (got lucky)
1024 mb ram
64 mb video
5400 rpm hd

ticket has been send

[Cougarcat]

Just played the game after a big hiatus. In fact, it was my first time playing on this machine (1.67 PB, 128 MB Radeon 9700) and tiger. I encountered massive redrawing problems. I could play around them for the most part until it encountered more redrawing problems and crashed. Had to do a hard restart. :mad:

[mcgarry]

Have you reported your troubles at support.aspyr.com (http://support.aspyr.com)? I'd be interested to hear of the reply, too.


Just played the game after a big hiatus. In fact, it was my first time playing on this machine (1.67 PB, 128 MB Radeon 9700) and tiger. I encountered massive redrawing problems. I could play around them for the most part until it encountered more redrawing problems and crashed. Had to do a hard restart. :mad:

[rvaliant]

I emailed them. Got this speedy reply:

Hello Robert,

Thanks for contacting us. The problem here is going to come down to your video card. Recent test have shown that Sim City 4 runs with a rather poor performance level in OS 10.4.4 on an FX5200 video card. We are currently researching this issue to determine if a patch is required. As for now, I recommend checking out the graphics settings. See if there are some detail levels that can be lowered. Try playing the game in a lower resolution if possible. If you still have a 10.3.9 partition on your hard drive, then you might try playing it in that OS. I am sorry I couldn't help you more. Stay posted on www.aspyr.com for updates to this issue.

Aspyr Tech Support

:confused:

[mcgarry]

"rather poor" ... I'll say. It's like night and day compared to where it was (which as some of you know, wasn't exactly fast on my wimpy G4).

And it's not just speed, but severe graphics problems, which is probably just another window on the same problem. In my case, lots of things became striped.

Go ahead and try, but in my experience, tweaking the settings will not help one bit.

Keep us posted, please! And bug them about it as much as you can ...

I emailed them. Got this speedy reply:

Hello Robert,

Thanks for contacting us. The problem here is going to come down to your video card. Recent test have shown that Sim City 4 runs with a rather poor performance level in OS 10.4.4 on an FX5200 video card. We are currently researching this issue to determine if a patch is required. As for now, I recommend checking out the graphics settings. See if there are some detail levels that can be lowered. Try playing the game in a lower resolution if possible. If you still have a 10.3.9 partition on your hard drive, then you might try playing it in that OS. I am sorry I couldn't help you more. Stay posted on www.aspyr.com for updates to this issue.

Aspyr Tech Support

:confused:

[rvaliant]

Right.

It's *barely* playable on my 1.6 G5. Toying with the settings doesn't help.

It is very unresponsive with visual artifacts all over the place.

I just bought it, too! What a waste.

I'll keep checking back here to see if something changes. Thanks for starting the thread!:)

"rather poor" ... I'll say. It's like night and day compared to where it was (which as some of you know, wasn't exactly fast on my wimpy G4).

And it's not just speed, but severe graphics problems, which is probably just another window on the same problem. In my case, lots of things became striped.

Go ahead and try, but in my experience, tweaking the settings will not help one bit.

Keep us posted, please! And bug them about it as much as you can ...

[Laser47]

Thats a typical response form a company like that. We should get someone with a Quad G5 and a 7800 to try out the game, and I bet it will be just a crappy. Then they can say the machine isint powerful enough or something.
Sometimes I wonder if the people who make the games actually play them once in a while.

[rvaliant]

This is kind of fun!

I sent Aspyr another message asking if they would refund my money since I had a machine that exceeded their specs and the game didn't work. I also asked if they were going to change the advertised specs of the game so that other's would not buy it and end up with an unplayable game.

Here's their response:

The game works fine in 10.3.9. It's just the new OS that messes the game up. If you have a partition that has 10.3.9 on it install the game there and it will run fine.
We are currently working with Apple to find a resolution to this issue.

The tone is a bit squirmy, if you ask me.

[Laser47]

I find that a funny excuse from them, how old is tiger? almost a year old. What have they been doing the whole time? Someone should sue them for false advertisement of the system requirements on the box.

[mcgarry]

I am unhappy to report that upgrading to 10.4.5 does not help. I didn't have reason to expect it would help, but I figured why not try. Clean install, as usual.

Thanks to those of you who have joined in by contacting Aspyr! We just might get this fixed.

[Cougarcat]

Have you reported your troubles at support.aspyr.com (http://support.aspyr.com)? I'd be interested to hear of the reply, too.

Yeah, they told me to update to 1.0.2 :rolleyes: I replied that I already had it. They'll probably tell me "we're working on a new patch."

You would've thought they'd have ironed out these issues before releasing the Deluxe Edition.

Update: I've been told to do the following:

1. Make sure the game is installed on the boot volume, the main hard drive.

2. Don't put the game in your Applications folder. There are permissions conflicts that can arise when games are installed here. Install the game to the root level of your drive instead.

3. Run the permissions repair. To do this, launch the Disk Utility located in the Utilities folder in the Applications folder. The second tab will allow you to repair permissions.

4. Remove the game completely (search for all game files) and run the install again, and choose the Macintosh HD as the destination for the install. When you launch the game, leave all in-game graphics settings at the defaults. Then reinstall the patch.

I doubt any of these will have any effect, but it's worth a shot...

[rvaliant]

My last request for a refund was met with:

We are working with Apple and Nvidia to isolate ad repair the problem.
Unfortunately this problem is causes by the drivers that came with 10.4+.
Since this game was released way before 10.4 came out, we had no clue that this would happen (hence the OS 10.2.8 recommendation on the box).

I apologize for the inconvenience and would appreciate your patience while we try to repair the problem.

Causes by the drivers?

They don't want to entertain a refund -- that's pretty clear.

[mcgarry]

What they are saying is not exactly true. SimCity 4 Deluxe came out in October 2005, and is still for sale in Apple stores as elsewhere alongside Mac OS 10.4. And at least through me, they have known about this problem since November 2005-- they even told me they were able to duplicate it on their test machines!

Furthermore, there is not a "10.2.8 recommendation on the box," it says "10.2.8 or later" (the original version box says "10.2 or later" and its website says "10.2.3 or later"). If they want to say on the boxes, on their website, and through their GameAgent program that the game is not compatible with 10.4.x, they can do that; but, they are not, so they are lying. If I had received the reply you did, I would write back to Aspyr and tell them this.

And while you are asking for a refund, personally I think they can and should fix this. Remember that they issued a patch for The Sims 2 (http://www.aspyr.com/detail.php?p_support_article_id=1214&p_game_id=156) that sounds remarkably close to what we need for SC4. And The Sims 2 for Mac came out before SC4 Complete, so release date alone is not the reason.


My last request for a refund was met with:



Causes by the drivers?

They don't want to entertain a refund -- that's pretty clear.

[rvaliant]

I'm asking for a refund as an alternative to a fix. It is their respopnsibility to provide one or the other -- I want them to think about that; setting a precedent by refunding my purchase could result in a lot more cost than fixing the game.;)



And while you are asking for a refund, personally I think they can and should fix this. Remember that they issued a patch for The Sims 2 (http://www.aspyr.com/detail.php?p_support_article_id=1214&p_game_id=156) that sounds remarkably close to what we need for SC4. And The Sims 2 for Mac came out before SC4 Complete, so release date alone is not the reason.

[mcgarry]

To everyone reading this thread who doesn't own SimCity 4/Complete: please think of the precedent. Consider these two points:

* Would you buy another game from Aspy if you cannot trust the system requirements that they print on their own boxes, post on their own website, and verify using their own GameAgent program?

* Would you buy another product from Aspyr at risk of it being broken by a minor OS update within days of its release, but never patched?

Quake 4, Civilization IV, Call of Duty 2 ... some of the games coming out from Aspyr this year.

If you agree that this is a problem, please write to Aspy at support.aspyr.com (http://support.aspyr.com) and tell them so. You are welcome to reference anything else we've discussed in this thread.

[Arnaud]

Did anyone try to return the software to the shop where you bought it - if you bought it like a week ago ?

I live in The Netherlands, and in most of the stores, you can return items for a refund without a reason and within a certain amount of time (2 weeks, 90 days, depends on the place). (I don't know if it's just a policy, a Dutch or European law, nor if it has an equivalent in the US).

Of course, this is a software, and a shop might refuse as you opened the sealed package (like for dvd's and cd's), as you might have copied it.
But I would definitely try here, and I think it might work - it just doesn't work ! They would hear me.

If you bought the game 6 months ago, you can forget it for a shop refund...

[mrgreen4242]

Did anyone try to return the software to the shop where you bought it - if you bought it like a week ago ?

I live in The Netherlands, and in most of the stores, you can return items for a refund without a reason and within a certain amount of time (2 weeks, 90 days, depends on the place). (I don't know if it's just a policy, a Dutch or European law, nor if it has an equivalent in the US).

Of course, this is a software, and a shop might refuse as you opened the sealed package (like for dvd's and cd's), as you might have copied it.
But I would definitely try here, and I think it might work - it just doesn't work ! They would hear me.

If you bought the game 6 months ago, you can forget it for a shop refund...

In the US once software has been opened almost no one will take it back, except to replace it with the same poduct. Lame, but that's the way it is here.

This whole issue is pretty shoddy. Since they are still selling it and Apple is not selling anything prior to 10.4, they should either label it is not compatible with 10.4, refund anyone who bought it since 10.4 came out, or fix it yesterday.

[mcgarry]

Returning it was not an option for me: I bought from an Apple Store, which does not allow returns on opened software. Mine did work ok until it was broken by an OS update.

For others, I think the problem is also that Aspyr lists the product as compatible, so they thought it would be when they bought it. Anyone who walks into an Apple store today and buys:
1) SimCity 4 Complete from the shelf, and
2) a Mac from what appears to be a range of still-currently-shipping models
is in for an unpleasant surprise. Independent from the questions of a refund, I think Aspyr needs to be more honest about whether their products will or won't work, and if not, if/when they are going to issue a patch.

In general, the consumer should have a reasonable expectation that they can trust the requirements listed on the box or website, especially in cases where returning software is not an option.

Did anyone try to return the software to the shop where you bought it - if you bought it like a week ago ?
...

[a2daj]

Sometimes there isn't much developers can do when Apple introduces bugs at the driver level. It unfortunately happens a little too often. Apple's fixes/performance enhancments for Doom 3 in 10.3.8 introduced bugs which caused serious performance problems with Knights of the Old Republic. The issue was only fixed in 10.4.4. Apple is responsible for the NVIDIA drivers for OS X and they always seem to introduce some major performance bugs in an OS everyonce in awhile. Some WoW owners with GeForce 3 and 4 cards saw some huge performance drops with 10.4.2. When stuff like that happens, there isn't always a work around. In those cases the developer can only report the bug and move on to other things. And by the time that information gets down to customer service, you can never predict what type of response they'll give to customers.

[mcgarry]

a2daj,
I generally agree with what you say, and I am aware of some of the constraints under which Aspyr must work. However, I also know two things:
- Aspyr patched a remarkably similar-sounding bug in another title, the Sims 2, which may indicate that they know how to deal with this
- as with all developers, they get copies of OS builds in advance of their customers; they can warn users about pending incompatibilities, or change their own website to reflect reality, even if they want to never address the problem

That, and the point in my previous post stands ... they could at least not publicly claim compatibility on currently-shipping systems with their currently-shipping and -supported product when compatibility does not exist.

[crazzyeddie]

Just to get this straight, it only affects people running withe 5200 on the 12" Powerbook, right?

If so, they should certainly give you guys refunds. Thats absurd.

[mcgarry]

Early on in this process, I had Aspyr confirm on their own machines that yes, computers with the Go5200 are affected. However, I was not asking about other models nor were they testing them as far as I know. But, as you can see, others have posted in this thread indicating that the problems may exist for the desktop version of the 5200 and possibly even other cards. All of the affected cards/systems mentioned in this thread are within the stated minimum system requirements on Aspy'r website, the game packaging, and as stated by their "GameAgent" utility.

As I understand it, Aspyr will offer to exchange it for a game of equal or lesser value, but not a refund.

Just to get this straight, it only affects people running withe 5200 on the 12" Powerbook, right?

If so, they should certainly give you guys refunds. Thats absurd.

[crazzyeddie]

As I understand it, Aspyr will offer to exchange it for a game of equal or lesser value, but not a refund.

Well, that seems somewhat reasonable because it is opened software... Aspyr usually has the best support in the Mac gaming business.

[mcgarry]

And how can I be sure that any of their other games are compatible? Anyway, If I'd wanted another game, I'd have bought another game.

I agree, them offering something is better than nothing, and people at Aspyr have have been helpful, to a point; but, overall I do not find their policy reasonable, hence this thread, see above, etc.

Well, that seems somewhat reasonable because it is opened software... Aspyr usually has the best support in the Mac gaming business.

[rvaliant]

Well, that seems somewhat reasonable because it is opened software...

Uhmm, no: that's not fair; it's called "bait and switch," and it's illegal.

[crazzyeddie]

Well, that seems somewhat reasonable because it is opened software...

Uhmm, no: that's not fair; it's called "bait and switch," and it's illegal.

Its not bait and switch. They didn't sell you the product for 10.4, and then laugh at you for buying it. Its advertised for 10.2 or higher, which was a long time ago. You can't expect them to recall the retail boxes to reprint them due to this (sorry to say) insignificant amount of users who will lose use of the software under 10.4 only. They are offering you a trade for any product, which is not bait and switch because they aren't promising you another or a cheaper product knowing that you will not be able to use/obtain it, then selling you something different. If anything they are "lying" to the very small number of people using 12" Powerbooks using 10.4 who want to play Sim City 4.

[mcgarry]

Lots of software says "10.x or higher." Office 2004 says "10.2.8 or higher" too, for example; you don't actually think that means 10.4 users should assume it won't work for them too. So, I don't follow you there.

And it's not just about printing the boxes. How about their website? How about posting a bulletin like they have for other issues? And then there's their GameAgent program (currently in version 1.6, last updated February '06)-- it tests your system and reports on compatibility. Guess what it still says about this game on my computer. So I don't follow you there either.

The one place I do follow you is that this does affect admittedly a small number of people relative to say, a similar issue would with Office 2004 or even other Aspyr titles. However, this thread indicates that the problems are probably not limited to 12" rev. B-D PowerBook users. We have reports from iMacs and iBooks, too. I haven't tested them myself, but they sound legitimate.

Again, no one is forcing them to sell this non-working product literally feet away from OS X and incompatible computers on the shelves of Apple stores. If they know it doesn't work with certain computers still being sold in those stores, but they know they can offer an exchange later on, then that is a sort of bait-and-switch.

Let's also keep the timeline in perspective. Yes, SC4 is an older game, but a newly packaged and marketed version was released in October 2005. The GameAgent still has a banner proudly proclaiming it as "new." It is currently shipping and supported. This is not some legacy piece of software being traded on eBay or something. And I've been dealing with this almost since the release of the new version. Much time has passed, and the game is now a few months older, but that's their fault for not having done anything about it (except verify it privately to me and maybe other) since then. They have made a decision to do nothing, even though at least through me they knew of this problem long ago.

Its not bait and switch. They didn't sell you the product for 10.4, and then laugh at you for buying it. Its advertised for 10.2 or higher, which was a long time ago. You can't expect them to recall the retail boxes to reprint them due to this (sorry to say) insignificant amount of users who will lose use of the software under 10.4 only. They are offering you a trade for any product, which is not bait and switch because they aren't promising you another or a cheaper product knowing that you will not be able to use/obtain it, then selling you something different. If anything they are "lying" to the very small number of people using 12" Powerbooks using 10.4 who want to play Sim City 4.

[MacRumorUser]

I made a ticket case on Aspyr asking them about updating SC4 and maybe a universal patch (after all if they make one it will surely sort out problems for PPC users too)....

I did the same with Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 last week and just got standard email so I won't hold my breath :)

[crazzyeddie]

I made a ticket case on Aspyr asking them about updating SC4 and maybe a universal patch (after all if they make one it will surely sort out problems for PPC users too)....

I did the same with Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 last week and just got standard email so I won't hold my breath :)

I, too, will ask them for the same. I would very much like to play this on an Intel and would like all of those affected with this problem to finally be able to play the game as they should be able to.

[rvaliant]

They are offering you a trade for any product, which is not bait and switch because they aren't promising you another or a cheaper product knowing that you will not be able to use/obtain it, then selling you something different.

Why don't you go to your local law library and check:

Templeton v. Krause, 376 U.S. 239 (1972).
Benson v. Timmons, 120 U.S. 239 (1963).
Rhine v. Reynolds, 212 U.S. 239 (1971).


Remember: you're supposed to preface *your* posts with:

"IANAL, but I have an uneducated, dumb-ass opinion that I'd like to share with you anyway."

:)

[crazzyeddie]

Why don't you go to your local law library and check:

Templeton v. Krause, 376 U.S. 239 (1972).
Benson v. Timmons, 120 U.S. 239 (1963).
Rhine v. Reynolds, 212 U.S. 239 (1971).


Remember: you're supposed to preface *your* posts with:

"IANAL, but I have an uneducated, dumb-ass opinion that I'd like to share with you anyway."

:)

I seriously doubt this case would come close to holding up in court. If I'm such a dumb-ass, then please, by all means, take it to court.

Also, personal attacks are against the forum rules. Please refrain from using them, its completely unnecessary and I will report you next time.

Additionally, I just searched using Google and 3 libraries (including my university's law library) and couldn't find mention of any of those cases. Perhaps you would be willing to share your sources to give me some insight into your education opinion.

[nealsoad]

I emailed them. Got this speedy reply:

Hello Robert,

Thanks for contacting us. The problem here is going to come down to your video card. Recent test have shown that Sim City 4 runs with a rather poor performance level in OS 10.4.4 on an FX5200 video card. We are currently researching this issue to determine if a patch is required. As for now, I recommend checking out the graphics settings. See if there are some detail levels that can be lowered. Try playing the game in a lower resolution if possible. If you still have a 10.3.9 partition on your hard drive, then you might try playing it in that OS. I am sorry I couldn't help you more. Stay posted on www.aspyr.com for updates to this issue.

Aspyr Tech Support

:confused:

This just shows how much Aspyr doesn't know about Macs. Not everyone can run 10.3.9. If you purchased a Mac that shipped with Tiger it will NOT be able to boot into Panther. Macs can NOT install/boot an OS that is older than itself. If you try it, it will pop up with a strange boot screen, the gray apply will shift offset and nothing will happen from there. It's an extension issue.

I purchased my iBook in November 2005 and then SC4 a week later. Runs SC4 like I'm on a beige tower with 32-Ram.

This is obsoletely ridiculous! They really need to issue refunds. I'm pretty sure that there are legal issues with what they are doing.

[Relaena]

Same problem here, newer machine. VERY frustrating. Have written to them twice. No luck.

Frustrated in Seattle,
Relaena

[mcgarry]

MacRumorUser, crazzyeddie and others-- thank you for your support, but as you might guess my personal interests are not in the direction of Aspyr patching the game for Intel compatibility. Let's try to get them to support what they already publicly say they support before tacking on any new opportunities for them to fudge.

As for the rest of us-- Relaena, rvaliant, nealsoad, Cougarcat, Laser47, szwork, paddy, others-- please keep up the pressure! If we find enough of us out there, if we bug them enough, if we raise a big enough stink, this WILL happen! Now is not the time to give up, but to push still harder for a resolution.

[TEG]

SC4 Deluxe runs great on a 667 PowerBook G4 with 768 and now 1GB of RAM. The only thing that has been a little dodgy is the missions, but with a little patience they are fine.

I just wish Maxis/EA would scrap the whole "Our own UI" concept and return to the best style of Sim City Ever... SC2K.

TEG

[madmax_2069]

almost every port to Mac has way more bugs in it than the pc version has. some times they get patched and most of the times it gets blamed on the hardware in the Mac. There is a few good examples of games that got ported to Mac that had almost the same problems as the pc version did AKA 4x4 evo and another game Yea its old but it never got a patch like its pc counterpart did . the pc and Mac version had a career reset problem when you installed a custom car, if you missed the check point you had to drive around it backwards and go threw it the right way insted of just backing up. and a few more problems the pc & Mac versions had but was fixed on the pc but they forgot about the Mac version.

even if you get on them about the sim's 4 bug's they might not even try to fix it. ive notist about company's that port software to Mac dont really care about if its optimized or not. just about all the Mac games ive seen are not optimized any way near 100% like they should be. cause people that buy there software think its optimized and most bug's worked out for the Mac but they are way off. Apple or some one should put there foot up the porting company's butt for making the Mac look bad cause of crappy ports. They or any company that made a port to the Mac platform should fix there software even tho its old or not. I my self think the companys just dont care at all. they want is to screw you out your money.

That is why gaming on Mac never really took off . Who wants to play a game that has been ported over like crap and just slapped togeather just running fast enuf to run & play or has major bug's. granted some game ports run better than others but in no way shape or form are they running near 100%.

[mcgarry]

Relaena, rvaliant, nealsoad, Cougarcat, Laser47, szwork, paddy, anyone else affected by this: want to post an update? How have your contacts with Aspyr gone so far? To get a response, we should keep up the pressure.

madmax_2069 has some good points, but it doesn't mean we should lose hope. Aspyr has the ability to fix this, they just need to know we want it, and they might need some help understanding why it's important.

And I hope most of you would agree, after this experience, can you trust Aspyr? Would you actually feel comfortable paying for one of their products with a real risk this might happen again? That's another reason they should listen to us. Not just those of us affected in this instance, but the 2,000 Mac users/gamers who have viewed this (plus others in other forums in which I've also posted), all have a chance to see how Aspyr operates. Today, maybe it's just someone else's PowerBooks, iMacs, and iBooks; tomorrow, it could be your computer too.

[Laser47]

Relaena, rvaliant, nealsoad, Cougarcat, Laser47, szwork, paddy, anyone else affected by this: want to post an update? How have your contacts with Aspyr gone so far? To get a response, we should keep up the pressure.

madmax_2069 has some good points, but it doesn't mean we should lose hope. Aspyr has the ability to fix this, they just need to know we want it, and they might need some help understanding why it's important.

And I hope most of you would agree, after this experience, can you trust Aspyr? Would you actually feel comfortable paying for one of their products with a real risk this might happen again? That's another reason they should listen to us. Not just those of us affected in this instance, but the 2,000 Mac users/gamers who have viewed this (plus others in other forums in which I've also posted), all have a chance to see how Aspyr operates. Today, maybe it's just someone else's PowerBooks, iMacs, and iBooks; tomorrow, it could be your computer too.

The other day I was talking about sim games in school. When I got home I really wanted to play SC4. Until I realized that it did not work.

Ive emailed Aspyr and have yet to get a response.

[madmax_2069]

lets hope we can kick the porting company's in the butt for slacking on what they are supost to do. If you ask me its bad buisness on there part on not wanting to fix what they know is bugged, flawed, what have ya. most company's dont even worry about what you think " i know its wrong, and they know too" they make enuff money on the game's they port to make them work right for time to come even tho the game is old if some one finds a big bug in a game and the company is still in buisness they should fix it with a patch

[MacRumorUser]

I got a reply from Aspyr about the ticket I submitted.

Bad news mate.

'Things are very hectic at the moment with the transition to the Intel platform and we are working to release patches for a small number of titles including The Sims 2, as well as optimizing forthcoming releases like Quake 4. Further Development on SimCity 4 is halted at this stage as we do not have the necessary resources. For more information on status of projects please consult our website. Thank you'............

Dont hold your breath mate, looks like RCT3 is banjaxed too....

[madmax_2069]

as i said once before they want your money for a peice of crap port that they dont want to fix. that is the why gaming on Mac never took off cause we have crappy porting companys to lazy fo fix there crappy porting ability's. i guess this calls for a swift kick in the pants to all the company's that made ports to games and software for the Mac but i guess no one can do that cause if we could we would have already have done it by now. man thats a bunch of BS about them not doing anything cause they have no amply resourses to fix what they put out.

thanks allot for runing Mac gaming you crappy porting companys. you happly take out money and dont want to fix the software we buy from you. what gives??? no wonder people down the Mac platform its cause of crappy porting company's porting good software to Mac and it runs like poop and not going threw the proper QA prosses to rush the game out to take our money for what a POS port. get it togeather people and do your job's


this just makes me so mad. anything the pc can do the Mac an do and some times do better. the PPC has more power than the X86 that's in PC's but it dont show cause guess why????? you guessed it crappy port's

even tho i dont have the game i still sent in a e-mail cause it need's fixed and i got a reply saying the same thing as the post above. Man am i ever pissed cause of this

im not for shure what we can do to kick porting company's in the butt to get them to start making ports right and making patches to the games already out. a petition wont do any good just look at the yahoo im client for mac its lakluster in everyway shape and form compaired to the windows pc version. same goes for MSN IM, and yea you know to about the games

[notchicken]

what a suprise, :eek:
I was searching for a patch for the deluxe edition but the only one I could find find wanted a serial number off the back of the case, of course there was no serial number with mine, and find out the running slow was a bug,
lol I thought that must have been the normal speed of the game.

G5 2ghz dual
2.5GB ram
300gb striped RAID set
nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT 256MB (it was a very expensive card)

slow but playable, cause Ive never played it at its normal speed.
The only think I can't do is drive the itty bitty cars.:rolleyes:

[dantre]

I was just searching the web for a patch, when I found your message board. I followed the link and sent a ticket of my own. I think that :mad:aspyr:mad: has a resposibility to make a patch, because my computer meets all the requirements listed on the game. I have a G5 iMac with a gig of ram and a Nvidia 9600 card. I find that the visual glitches in the game get progressively worse until the game crashes. Most of the problems I encounter are when I try and zoom in/out or scroll. Lage portions of the screen will go black, or the buildings and roads will dissapear or some of the screen will zoom, but patches will stay at the same level. I've played Sim City since I had my first mac, an LCII.:D I wish I could just go back to playing simcity 2000. That was my favorite. Does any one know how I could play that in OS X?

[supremedesigner]

What if they've decided to re-port SC4 (PC) from stratch instead of fixing / updating 'PPC' softwares both for intel / ppc? Might be a big improvement, don't you think? I don't know but that's an idea...

[crazzyeddie]

...I have a G5 iMac with a gig of ram and a (Radeon) 9600 card...

Have you applied the 1.02 patch? That fixes the problems with the Radeon 9xxx series cards, which you have. You don't have an Nvidia card, and the Nvidia cards are the ones that have the problems with SC4.

Here is the link to that: Link (http://www.aspyr.com/detail.php?p_support_article_id=1173&p_game_id=2)

[Cougarcat]

Have you applied the 1.02 patch? That fixes the problems with the Radeon 9xxx series cards, which you have. You don't have an Nvidia card, and the Nvidia cards are the ones that have the problems with SC4.

Here is the link to that: Link (http://www.aspyr.com/detail.php?p_support_article_id=1173&p_game_id=2)

I have this patch and a Radeon 9700 and I still have problems with the day/night cycle and redrawing issues. Back when I had a TiBook, the patch worked perfectly with its Radeon 9000 card. No such luck with the 9700.

[TonyJ]

Glad to find this thread...

This is my favorite game and this version is unstable to point of being a candidate for a class action. I have tried it on a G4, PB17"- 1.67, and G5. I have gone round and round with Aspyr about the patch as well and they always brush me off.

The game always ends the same... system crash.

Clearly there is a need for an update to the game.

[supremedesigner]

Well, you know what happened about "Boot Camp" and I wondered if anyone got a chance to install "PC" Sim City 4 on XP on Intel Mac? :D Anyone? I reeeally gotta know cuz if this improved, then I'll get me a lovely macbook PRO!

[mcgarry]

Unbelievable. They still have not even updated their system requirements, or posted a tech support bulletin. The game is still advertised on their website. Oh well.

[CPFarhood]

Here's some irony for you.... SC4 runs infinitely smoother on my iMac Core Duo 2ghz then it does on my 1.5ghz 12" PBook or my Dual 2.0ghz PMac G5. Apparently the solution is buy a MacTel.

I got a reply from Aspyr about the ticket I submitted.

Bad news mate.

'Things are very hectic at the moment with the transition to the Intel platform and we are working to release patches for a small number of titles including The Sims 2, as well as optimizing forthcoming releases like Quake 4. Further Development on SimCity 4 is halted at this stage as we do not have the necessary resources. For more information on status of projects please consult our website. Thank you'............

Dont hold your breath mate, looks like RCT3 is banjaxed too....

[crazzyeddie]

Here's some irony for you.... SC4 runs infinitely smoother on my iMac Core Duo 2ghz then it does on my 1.5ghz 12" PBook or my Dual 2.0ghz PMac G5. Apparently the solution is buy a MacTel.

Indeed. This game does run VERY well on my MBP, especially Rush Hour, which runs about twice as well as just plain SC4. Aspyr has also said they will release a UB patch for SC4, which will hopefully fix everyones problems.

[Lebowski]

Thats a typical response form a company like that. We should get someone with a Quad G5 and a 7800 to try out the game, and I bet it will be just a crappy. Then they can say the machine isint powerful enough or something.
Sometimes I wonder if the people who make the games actually play them once in a while.

well, my Quad with the 7800 card just arrived this morning!!!!!

I got SC4 to play on my PB17", and it was always pretty twitchy.

After I load up final cut studio, i am gonna try out SC4 and see how it does.

-quad w/ 7800 and 2 gigs ram.

[mcgarry]

This UB patch sounds interesting ... where did you hear this/link?

Indeed. This game does run VERY well on my MBP,
especially Rush Hour, which runs about twice as well as just plain SC4. Aspyr has also said they will release a UB patch for SC4, which will hopefully fix everyones problems.

[MacBoobsPro]

Just as an update, I sent an email to them and got the reply today. All they said was that it supports OSX and that if I have a problem to contact the hardware manufacturer. Yay, what a big help.:mad:

Maybe you will get a new MBP instead of a patch!

[MacBoobsPro]

This UB patch sounds interesting ... where did you hear this/link?

I REALLY cant see this happening Electronic Arts dont even acknowledge SC4 exists anymore and Aspyr probably wont gain anything from spending time producing a UB patch. If they did they would 'from their POV' be wasting time and money.

I used to run SC4 Rush Hour but got fed up of it crashing all the time on my G5 with ATI card. I emailed them again and again and they do seem eager to help but ultimately the advice they offer rarely fixes the problem.

Apparently alot of issues can be defeated by reducing screen res to 1040x768 but I didnt pay £1000 for my cinema display to play games in a ****** resolution. So i dont play it anymore! :mad:

[crazzyeddie]

List of Universal Binary Games (http://guides.macrumors.com/Universal_Binary_Games)

[ZildjianKX]

This is kind of fun!

I sent Aspyr another message asking if they would refund my money since I had a machine that exceeded their specs and the game didn't work. I also asked if they were going to change the advertised specs of the game so that other's would not buy it and end up with an unplayable game.

Here's their response:

The game works fine in 10.3.9. It's just the new OS that messes the game up. If you have a partition that has 10.3.9 on it install the game there and it will run fine.
We are currently working with Apple to find a resolution to this issue.

The tone is a bit squirmy, if you ask me.


Actually, tell them that you have a new G5 with an NVIDIA card and can't boot into 10.3 since it is not supported by your G5.

[havok416]

I've have the same problems with the game on my iMac G5 20" since I upgraded to 10.4.3 also. Aspyr has emailed me the same messages as previous posts, which is basically "check back later and quit bothering us" which has been no help.

I've been thinking of getting a new black MacBook though. Has anyone given that a try? If so, how do the Intel GMA 950 graphics hold up?