Sony's Attempt at a Revolution killer???

[d_saum]

I found this (http://gonintendo.com/?p=1012) and thought it was interesting.

Kotaku is reporting a rumor that Sony has an idea to stop the Revolution from ever becoming successful. Get a load of this paragraph from another blog that Kotaku posted.

So with that in mind, here’s how Sony plans (according to this dude) to combat the Revolution: “Got some PS2 info if you’re interested too. Sony intend to make it their ‘Revolution Killer’. They’re working on tying in Eyetoy and some kind of controller similar to the Revolution controller. With a 100M+ userbase, tens of thousands of mature and documented dev kits and the very low cost of producing Rev style games on the PS2 platform they’re expecting to mobilise another 50M units over the next 5 years precipitated by a $99 price point in 2007.”

Keeping the PS2 alive for a few more years huh!? I don’t think that something like this will happen, but then again, you never know. Just another point to show why Nintendo holds their cards so close. if someone is thinking this up and it is nothing more then a rumor, then it is a pretty good guess that Sony is at least keeping an eye on the Revolution…or should I say EyeToy?

I seriously don't think this is going to affect the rev, but it might be interesting to see what they can do.

[2nyRiggz]

I don't even think that is true...sounds like hot air to me. Sony focus is on the PS3.


Bless

[myshoeshurt]

If it's true, the system may compete with the Revolution, but it will in no way destroy it. It would be a pathetic move on Sony's part.... although they might need to do it, considering the ridiculous costs for the PS3.

[XNine]

If it's true, the system may compete with the Revolution, but it will in no way destroy it. It would be a pathetic move on Sony's part.... although they might need to do it, considering the ridiculous costs for the PS3.

You don't even know what the cost of the PS 3 will be, how can you say this?

And the Rev is certainly going to be a cheap toy compared to the PS 3 anyway. I would say the Rev is a pathetic attempt at being a next gen console, if any console to hit the market this next year.

[supergod]

Judging by the past, it is clear that Sony will continue to support the PS2 after the PS3 has been released for at least a few years. It will still sell in significant numbers if the price is low. Since it's rubbish as a graphics intensive, internet, or media machine, who knows? Releasing cheap games that make use of the Eyetoy is a distinct possibility. Releasing more simple, games for the PS2 works well because the PS3 will be backwards compatible, so you're really hitting quite a large market.

[Counterfit]

And the Rev is certainly going to be a cheap toy compared to the PS 3 anyway. I would say the Rev is a pathetic attempt at being a next gen console, if any console to hit the market this next year.
You don't even know what the Rev will be like, how can you say this?

:p

[jdechko]

I wonder what the article means by "Revolution Style games". Are they referring to the way that the games are played or what? I really don't think that Sony is going to pull of a Half-A**ed attempt at copying the Revolution, especially at the (probable) expense of the PS3. There really is no way that they can cheaply copy the Revolution and have it be worth anything.

[supergod]

I think all they mean by "revolution style" is games focused on being GAMES! Not imitating movies: just cheaply made games that are fun and easy to play.

[2nyRiggz]

It can't be a "Rev. Style" then because sony's eyetoy has been out for a while with simple fun games of this style(without a control stick).....hot air.


Bless

[MacRumorUser]

Actually this could be a problem.

If Nintendo get the Rev out before this copycat, they can at least claim plagirism and copyright infringment.

If Sony get this add on out before Nintendo I'm not sure where Nintendo would stand.

[Dagless]

Thats funny, I always saw the Playstation's as pathetic. PS1 was weak, PS2 was weak, PSP has bad games, PS3 is powerful but at an (estimated) extreme cost. Plus they're all the same but with a little added extra juice. for christs sake they're still using the same button layout! it's almost the same uncomfortable controller that dogged my paws for the past decade too.

I can imagine some games coming out. But I foresee it being similar to these DS clone games the PSP is getting. Like that virtual dog game for example. Nintendo will lead in software and everyone else will blindly follow. Already they're doing this by just hinting that they will have a "revolution killer".

... Is this like the iPod killer of theirs? And their desktop PC killer? Their real life dog killer? :D
Cheers Sony, but no cheers.

My other takes... The xbox was a fantastic piece of kit. Just like (perhaps?) the Xbox 360 it looks to have a terrible first year or 2 and then it will become a brilliant machine. Modding and chipping will definitely make it a better buy too. The Dreamcast was way under-rated. best 128bit machine IMO. The PS2 was a shoddy piece of equipment that was a bad BAD sequel of the phenomenal PS1. they really did just stick a DVD player and a faster chip and said "right, we're done". The PSP could be so much more. But frankly it isn't. When it IS. I'll get one. The Rev feels like it's the only system to match up to the feeling of the first PS1 and the NES before it. something genuinely new, not *another* rehash.
in a nutshell I love the PS1 (maybe more so than my Nintendo consoles, not handhelds though), the Xbox 1 and the DC so shhh those who are going to scream fanboy.
...But moreso the Megadrive. Co-op Streets of Rage 2 anyone?

[GFLPraxis]

I doubt it, but I do remember hearing a few months back about a Sony developed "wand" where the EyeToy tracks its movement in space and thus it functions similar to the Revolution controller, only EyeToy tracked (very different principle than the Rev controller in how it works, and it lacks some of the functions like detecting exactly where on the screen you're pointing, but still very similar).

However, I'd expect developers would view it as an extra addon and not support it very well. Look at the EyeToy. The vast majority of games pretend it doesn't exist.

[GFLPraxis]

You don't even know what the cost of the PS 3 will be, how can you say this?

All we know is that Sony has said it will be more than the XBox 360, which many already consider expensive.


And the Rev is certainly going to be a cheap toy compared to the PS 3 anyway. I would say the Rev is a pathetic attempt at being a next gen console, if any console to hit the market this next year.


ROFL! Talk about a hypocrite!

"PS3 will be too expensive."
"You don't even know the price of the PS3! How can you say that? And Revolution will be pathetic."

You don't even know the specs of the Revolution. All we know is that it will be the lowest priced system of the next generation, have free online, have a controller that functions as both a light gun, gyromouse, and motion sensor, AND have a games downloading service and built in WiFi.

All positives so far. Only negative is lack of HD support.

[2nyRiggz]

"PS3 will be too expensive."
"You don't even know the price of the PS3! How can you say that? And Revolution will be pathetic."

All we know is that it will be the lowest priced system of the next generation, have free online.
.

Things we don't know either, As a matter of fact we know nothing of either system so all is "don't know"....we will only know when these things are confirmed at E3(hopefully)

I won't respond to the bashing(once again)


Bless

[GFLPraxis]

Things we don't know either, As a matter of fact we know nothing of either system so all is "don't know"....we will only know when these things are confirmed at E3(hopefully)

I won't respond to the bashing(once again)


Bless
What are you talking about? The things I listed were confirmed at LAST YEAR'S E3.

[2nyRiggz]

Who says they can not change? i trust no company when they say something far ahead of the product shipping. Just as Sony stated crap Nintendo could do the same...until that console is ready to play it's not.


Bless

[XNine]

All we know is that Sony has said it will be more than the XBox 360, which many already consider expensive.



ROFL! Talk about a hypocrite!

"PS3 will be too expensive."
"You don't even know the price of the PS3! How can you say that? And Revolution will be pathetic."

You don't even know the specs of the Revolution. All we know is that it will be the lowest priced system of the next generation, have free online, have a controller that functions as both a light gun, gyromouse, and motion sensor, AND have a games downloading service and built in WiFi.

All positives so far. Only negative is lack of HD support.

What about digital audio out? Standard disc size? Controllers? All have been sub-par on previous nintendo machines. The PS 3 spec wise will completely kick its ass, and let's just say "MGS4." The 360 is impressive in itself as well.

You Nintendo fanboys are worse than Microsoft fanboys.

[rye9]

What about digital audio out? Standard disc size? Controllers? All have been sub-par on previous nintendo machines. The PS 3 spec wise will completely kick its ass, and let's just say "MGS4." The 360 is impressive in itself as well.

You Nintendo fanboys are worse than Microsoft fanboys.

I thought the GameCube was an awesome console. I'm not sayin this bc I'm a Nintendo "fanboy" either... I like all 3 companies. I think the 360 is an OK machine... it has awesome features, games, and online play (however it costs $). Also the console is too much money for my liking. Sony however is a different story, I like the games for PS2 and have had every playstation i think. (only 2, right?) But Sony makes piece of s*** consoles. My PS2 couldnt read a disk after 2 years, we had to get a whole new console. That wasn't the greatest thing ever.. Nintendo I have had no problems with though. The downside to Nintendo I believe are the games... they dont appeal to much people. I like the games somewhat because my favorite games of all time are SuperSmashBros. and Super Mario 64, so I cant wait for Super Mario 128! I also LOVE Zelda games... however it seems that thats all Nintendo has going for it... xBox and PS2 seem to get the most attention when it comes to the universal games such as James Bond, Need for Speed, Tony Hawk, etc...

So I don't believe that Nintendo sucks, that may be your opinion but each company has its pros and cons. You gotta look at everything, so they all seem to balance out. Same thing with political issues, theres always more than one side to a story. Usually a moderate approach is better than an extremist/radical one. sorry for ranting... it just annoys me when people say bad things about something bc of their own opinion, when in reality theres many factors that need to be taken account of. but then again, thats opinion, and everyone is entitled to their one and ya gotta respect that.

[GFLPraxis]

What about digital audio out?

We don't know in the Revolution's case.

Standard disc size?

The Revolution uses standard disk size.

Controllers? All have been sub-par on previous nintendo machines.

Wow. You're calling US fanboys? The N64 pioneered the analog stick and rumble and Sony had to directly rip it off by releasing a NEW CONTROLLER to copy them. Every Nintendo system has outperformed every equivilant Sony system ever released. How quickly people forget history. All you're doing is a round of Nintendo-bashing and Sony-obsessing.

All I've gotten from you is, "You can't say bad things about the PS3's price because all we know is that it's more than the 360, but we can say bad things about the Revolution because we know it's less than the 360 and I didn't like Nintendo's previous stuff."

Call me a fanboy if you wish, but read your own posts and you know I'm right.

[DEXTERITY]

Who says they can not change? i trust no company when they say something far ahead of the product shipping. Just as Sony stated crap Nintendo could do the same...until that console is ready to play it's not.


Bless

What has been stated so far about the Revolution via Reggie and others is true. It is playable at corporate and everything so far is true. You have yet to learn the half of what the Revolution has but you can count on it being out before Thanksgiving, under $300, wi-fi out of the box and it is backwards compatiable with GC games. And you can DL all the games from the NES, SNES and N64. Those facts are not changing. But there are a lot more positives you have yet to here. You can also count on Smash Brothers to be a launch title and it is online.......And you can backup the games you DL to your computer.

[clayj]

All positives so far. Only negative is lack of HD support.To me, that's a HUGE negative.

But since Nintendo is commonly thought to target the kiddie market*, and most kiddies do not have HDTVs in their bedrooms, this may not be such a big problem.

* No, I'm not saying that ALL Nintendo owners are kids. But the conventional wisdom is that Nintendos are played by kids, PlayStations are played by teenagers and young adults, and Xbox consoles are played by "older" players who have more money. Those are just the peak markets for each console, and each console has representation all up and down the age spectrum.

[Fukui]

Actually this could be a problem.

If Sony get this add on out before Nintendo I'm not sure where Nintendo would stand.
But eye toy cant even "see" 3-d movement right? So it cant see how far your are from the screen, it has no buttons etc like the revolution controller. I don't think eye toy is the same thing at all really.

[HiRez]

But eye toy cant even "see" 3-d movement right? So it cant see how far your are from the screen, it has no buttons etc like the revolution controller. I don't think eye toy is the same thing at all really.
No, if they are trying to simulate the Revolution controller using only an eyeToy, it's not "similar", it's a joke. You can't do it. Very primitive by comparison.

[briansolomon]

On the HD topic, how many college kids do you know with HD sets, too? I don't know any. HD doesn't matter to any of us. We're still playing Xbox 360 on SD sets, crappy ones, too.

[mac.head.high]

Details about a patent (need Adobe Acrobat to view) Sony filed for a gaming wand back in December 2004 have surfaced. We’re not sure how this stayed under the radar for so long, but according to the document, this device is shockingly similar to the Nintendo Revolution controller. It appears to have been initially developed for the PS2, but has either been shelved or is pending release on the PlayStation 3.
The gaming wand interacts with a web cam, which feeds into the console and is designed to read only certain light effects (given off by the wand) and will ignore ordinary room lights. The web cam will then map the movements of the light (i.e. the wand) and incorporate them into the application that is running on the console. Looks like both Sony and Microsoft have been toying with their own magic wands for a while now, but unlike Nintendo, neither has been bold enough to whip it out.

41802 41803


From-
http://ps3.qj.net/Sony-Has-its-Own-Magic-Wand-in-the-Works/pg/49/aid/365

[mac.head.high]

To me, that's a HUGE negative.

But since Nintendo is commonly thought to target the kiddie market*, and most kiddies do not have HDTVs in their bedrooms, this may not be such a big problem.

* No, I'm not saying that ALL Nintendo owners are kids. But the conventional wisdom is that Nintendos are played by kids, PlayStations are played by teenagers and young adults, and Xbox consoles are played by "older" players who have more money. Those are just the peak markets for each console, and each console has representation all up and down the age spectrum.


I was under the impression that the roles you outlined for Xbox and PS2 and their peak age groupings are backwards. That the teenage crowd was playing the Xbox and that a more story oriented mature audience was playing the PS2. Mainly I thought this is due to the types of games being distributed on the consoles, and the design ideology behind the consoles themselves. With the PS2 (again) having a more story driven catalog and cinematic presentation, while the Xbox was more designed with a pick-up and play aspect to it while still giving an almost arcade experience.

Also my extensive experience playing online both on the PS2 and Xbox have helped me form the opinion that the age grouping between the two console are very different. The PS2 online community ranging from about 16 to 42. While the XBL community ranges from 8-ish in some cases to about 35. These results are obviously colored by my choice in games, but I still feel they represent accurately. And of course their are varibales that land outside the numbers I mentioned. When I game, I generally ask the ages of my teammates and my opponents.

And just for reference, the games that I play(ed) online consistently:

PS2 Online Games: Socom, Socom 2, SOCOM 3
Xbox Online Games: Counter Strike, Halo 2, Rainbow 6 Three, & Delta-Force Blackhawk Down (Whatever you do, don't buy this crappy port of a game)

As for the actual numbers of age distribution of gaming systems, I don't have those numbers. But if you've ever played Halo 2 online I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about.


**Edit: I found some numbers-

41806
As sourced from the ESA
http://www.theesa.com/index.php

And couple those numbers with Sony's current 70% domination of the world gaming market. And you can get the picture.

Also, check out some of these numbers and statistics, there just very interesting.

TOP 10 INDUSTRY FACTS (http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php)

GAME PLAYER DATA
(http://www.theesa.com/facts/gamer_data.php)
SALES & GENRE DATA (http://www.theesa.com/facts/sales_genre_data.php)

[rosalindavenue]

And the Rev is certainly going to be a cheap toy compared to the PS 3 anyway. I would say the Rev is a pathetic attempt at being a next gen console, if any console to hit the market this next year.

The Gamecube is a better piece of hardware than the PS2 already; take a look as Resident Evil 2 or any review of that game if you doubt it. Given that Sony's current generation hardware comes in second, it seems odd to speculate, without any evidence, that the PS3 will be better than the rev. Speculation such as that seems fan-driven, not evidence-driven.

[mac.head.high]

The Gamecube is a better piece of hardware than the PS2 already; take a look as Resident Evil 2 or any review of that game if you doubt it. Given that Sony's current generation hardware comes in second, it seems odd to speculate, without any evidence, that the PS3 will be better than the rev. Speculation such as that seems fan-driven, not evidence-driven.

Your comparing the best and most beautiful game on the Gamecube by far, with it' distant (weaker) port of a cousin?

A better comparison of the two hardwares might be Resident Evil vs. God Of War, or Resident Evil vs. Shadow Of The Colossus.

I see were your trying to compare Apples to Apples, but in this case it just different.

[Dagless]

What about digital audio out? Standard disc size? Controllers? All have been sub-par on previous nintendo machines. The PS 3 spec wise will completely kick its ass, and let's just say "MGS4." The 360 is impressive in itself as well.

You Nintendo fanboys are worse than Microsoft fanboys.

Wow. Sorry but you seem to think that everyone wants what you want in a game system, specs. If specs are your thing then why do you shower the PS2 in praise? The Xbox was this gens most powerful machine. Go on, get that.

"let's just say "MGS4." hahah. Arrogance! In that case can I just say "Mario 128". We have MGS4. same old same old with new graphics. and then we have Mario 128. with gameplay so secretive it's being equated with the Holy Grail of video game gameplay. But it seem's GAMEplay doesn't matter here. its all about teh grafix!!1


To me, that's a HUGE negative.

But since Nintendo is commonly thought to target the kiddie market*, and most kiddies do not have HDTVs in their bedrooms, this may not be such a big problem.

* No, I'm not saying that ALL Nintendo owners are kids. But the conventional wisdom is that Nintendos are played by kids, PlayStations are played by teenagers and young adults, and Xbox consoles are played by "older" players who have more money. Those are just the peak markets for each console, and each console has representation all up and down the age spectrum.

I'm 20. I live in Saddleworth for chimps sake. a couple of England footballers live around the corner from me. Think Beverly Hills meets Last of the Summer Wine. I've yet to see anyone with a full fledged HDTV in their bedroom, barring the large high resolution monitors everyone seems to be getting. We all have LCD TVs and monitors in our bedrooms but no HDTV.
Infact nobody has a HDTV in their living room! We all splashed out a couple of years ago on those 46" plasma sets before HD was out.


Anyways. I like Sony for embarassingly copying the rest of the world. iPod? Xbox Live? Nintendo's 'wand'? Seems this super company can't make their own inventions.
... Actually, I'd like Onizuka to reply to this as he knows most about Sony here. What have Sony invented, not 3rd party but Sony, in the console world? What did they bring to the table first? Sorry but I'm seeing nothing but a company copying MS and Nintendo.

[mac.head.high]

"let's just say "MGS4." hahah. Arrogance! In that case can I just say "Mario 128". We have MGS4. same old same old with new graphics. and then we have Mario 128. with gameplay so secretive it's being equated with the Holy Grail of video game gameplay. But it seem's GAMEplay doesn't matter here. its all about teh grafix!!1

Isn't the new secretive Mario already said to be a 2D side-scroller? Nothing against side scrollers, but where's the Nintendo innovation we've come to love.


Anyways. I like Sony for embarassingly copying the rest of the world. iPod? Xbox Live? Nintendo's 'wand'? Seems this super company can't make their own inventions.
... Actually, I'd like Onizuka to reply to this as he knows most about Sony here. What have Sony invented, not 3rd party but Sony, in the console world? What did they bring to the table first? Sorry but I'm seeing nothing but a company copying MS and Nintendo.

First off, the Xbox didn't create the online gaming concept, they were just the first to make a stable system that caught on publicly. I recall the Sega Genesis had online capabilitys for a while with Sega Channel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel). You could download games.

And of course the Dreamcast came ready to go online as well.

And if you noticed, Sony put the patent in for the Wand in 2004, possibly before Nintendo. There's even a very slender chance that Nintendo borrowed it from Sony if they were paying extremely close attention to their activities and sales model. But probably not.

And as for what Sony brought to the table: How about 2 game consoles and the furtherment of the gaming community as a whole. Not to mention 13,00 games more in the world catalog.

[eva01]

Isn't the new secretive Mario already said to be a 2D side-scroller? Nothing against side scrollers, but where's the Nintendo innovation we've come to love.

WTF :confused: your not really following the thread are you at all. This is talk about mario 128, not the mario for the DS. Notice this thread has been all about the revolution. Why would someone magically mention a DS game is beyond me

[mac.head.high]

WTF :confused: your not really following the thread are you at all. This is talk about mario 128, not the mario for the DS. Notice this thread has been all about the revolution. Why would someone magically mention a DS game is beyond me

Sure I am, and I heard the new Mario for the Revolution was goning to be a 2D side scroller. I believe it was mentioned on G4tv. And the thread is primarily about Sony's tactics of how to combat/compete with Nintendo on a game-play/innovation level.

[Dagless]

Isn't the new secretive Mario already said to be a 2D side-scroller? Nothing against side scrollers, but where's the Nintendo innovation we've come to love.

Mario 128 and Mario Bros DS are 2 completely separate things. Mario 128 is the true sequel to Mario 64, Mario Bros DS being a new sidescroller.




First off, the Xbox didn't create the online gaming concept, they were just the first to make a stable system that caught on publicly. I recall the Sega Genesis had online capabilitys for a while with Sega Channel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Channel). You could download games.

The NES could go online. The Gameboy Colour could play online. The N64 had an online network. The Dreamcast could browse the internet and play online. Xbox only made it a very public, very useable and popular way of playing.

And if you noticed, Sony put the patent in for the Wand in 2004, possibly before Nintendo. There's even a very slender chance that Nintendo borrowed it from Sony if they were paying extremely close attention to their activities and sales model. But probably not.

Nintendo have been making the Revolution since just after the Gamecube's launch. Around 2002. They've been in talks with ATI and IBM about the graphics card and CPU for the past 5 years.

And as for what Sony brought to the table: How about 2 game consoles and the furtherment of the gaming community as a whole. Not to mention 13,00 games more in the world catalog.

The games console world would will still be there if Sony hadn't originally stolen away the CD system for the SNES and made their own system. So, Sony made 13,00 games? You seem to forget, I asked for 1st party. I don't even think Nintendo have developed "13,00" games in their 20 year life span. Things invented and made by Sony. By invented I mean new things. Making consoles doesn't count unless they're actual innovations rather than "yup, faster graphics chip, that'll keep the graphics whores happy." "but mr.Sony, what about a new way to play the games instead? look at how popular the DS is!" "gameplay? there is no such thing."

[Dagless]

Sure I am, and I heard the new Mario for the Revolution was goning to be a 2D side scroller. I believe it was mentioned on G4tv. And the thread is primarily about Sony's tactics of how to combat/compete with Nintendo on a game-play/innovation level.

haha. no you are missing the point by a few miles there. Mario 128 IS THE SEQUEL TO MARIO 64. IT IS 3D. IT IS NOT 2D LIKE THE DS GAME. No matter what G4tv or whoever they are said. Mario 128 takes Mario 64 and completes it (Shigsy has said, not G4tv, on many many occasions that Mario 64 was about 60% of what he wanted to make. Mario 128 will be (3D) and 100% of Mario 64).

[2nyRiggz]

Yes Sony did this and Sony did that..at the end of the day Sony still makes a good console as well as Nintendo and Microsoft. Who says that MGS4 won't be different? from what i read it is different just like the Mario series. Some of the things that are being said in this thread is a bunch of hot air.

How could you smile and hate one console so bad then lotion the other:rolleyes: ....just accept it and move on.


Bless

[GFLPraxis]

Sure I am, and I heard the new Mario for the Revolution was goning to be a 2D side scroller. I believe it was mentioned on G4tv. And the thread is primarily about Sony's tactics of how to combat/compete with Nintendo on a game-play/innovation level.

Uh, no, the new Mario for DS is a 2D sidescroller. The REVOLUTION Mario 128 we know little about, only that it'll use the Revolution's controller and be very revolutionary.

[GFLPraxis]

Your comparing the best and most beautiful game on the Gamecube by far, with it' distant (weaker) port of a cousin?

A better comparison of the two hardwares might be Resident Evil vs. God Of War, or Resident Evil vs. Shadow Of The Colossus.

I see were your trying to compare Apples to Apples, but in this case it just different.



Either way, look at the multiplatform game. In Spider-Man 2 and Ultimate Spider-Man, every review site you visit will say that the XBox has the longest view distance, followed by the GameCube, and PS2 in last place. Several other games are exactly the same.


First off, the Xbox didn't create the online gaming concept, they were just the first to make a stable system that caught on publicly. I recall the Sega Genesis had online capabilitys for a while with Sega Channel. You could download games.

And of course the Dreamcast came ready to go online as well.

So did the NES.



Also, my experience has been the opposite- more little kids I know play XBox and PS2 trying to be 'cool' because those two advertise themselves as 'mature'. In fact, most little kids I know are anti-Nintendo, while I know a lot of older people that are willing to accept Nintendo.

And in Japan, Nintendo is NOT viewed as kiddie and is quite popular with older people.

[ReanimationLP]

OMIGOSH Its ze Playstation 2 rehash project! T_T

[myshoeshurt]

You don't even know what the cost of the PS 3 will be, how can you say this?
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2006/02/22/ps3_delay_rumours_intensify.html
http://insider.ign.com/articles/684/684208p1.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16762
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2150692/doubts-grow-sony-ps3-release

... I don't want to keep going.

And the Rev is certainly going to be a cheap toy compared to the PS 3 anyway. I would say the Rev is a pathetic attempt at being a next gen console, if any console to hit the market this next year.
The Revolution isn't competition for the PS3. It isn't meant to be. It's an entirely new gaming design that sets itself apart from standard Sony garbage.

[Dagless]

...Also, my experience has been the opposite- more little kids I know play XBox and PS2 trying to be 'cool' because those two advertise themselves as 'mature'. In fact, most little kids I know are anti-Nintendo, while I know a lot of older people that are willing to accept Nintendo.

And in Japan, Nintendo is NOT viewed as kiddie and is quite popular with older people.

DITTO! Thank god I'm not the only one. The only person who still has a PS2 that I know in real life is what us brits call a Scally. He's obsessed with cars, smoking, alcohol and since the age of 16 has severely gained weight. I see all these people in Game, scrambling around the PS2 second hand section with their "aww yemman!" and their "innit!".
the only time i've ever seen a PSP outside of a house was on the bus. A clan of 'Hoodies' all gathered around the back of the bus. generally causing a nuisance playing their PSP at full volume, shouting, picking fights with passengers, acting like kids whose parents were probably on drugs or in prison.

People who go for a 'mature' product on image alone are the immature ones.

Thanks Praxis. I thought it was only here that the kiddy 'mature wannabes' existed :)

[Dagless]

The Revolution isn't competition for the PS3. It isn't meant to be. It's an entirely new gaming design that sets itself apart from standard Sony garbage.

You're right. Nintendo have constantly said that they have no desire to go into competition. And its worked, or working, or will work! depending on where you stand. They have this 2nd console strategy. A cheap system unlike any other. No. The 2 competition machines are the Xbox and the PS3. They'll continue slinging graphical mud at each other until 2011. Where Nintendo will be sitting pretty knowing that few companies can truly match their own market. Effectively tearing up the market; graphics consoles, innovative consoles and handhelds.

[GFLPraxis]

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/games/archives/2006/02/22/ps3_delay_rumours_intensify.html
http://insider.ign.com/articles/684/684208p1.html
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=16762
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2150692/doubts-grow-sony-ps3-release

... I don't want to keep going.


Well, most agree that the analysis is completely exaggurated, and I wouldn't use rumors as source. But Sony have said a few times that the PS3 will be the most expensive next gen system, and Nintendo said theirs will be the cheapest.

[GFLPraxis]

Thanks Praxis. I thought it was only here that the kiddy 'mature wannabes' existed :)

Yeah, the kiddy 'mature wannabes' are a pet peeve of mine. I hear people running around ranting about the XBox and all their M-rated games (usually people under 18) and if you say the word Nintendo you get a response something like "Nintendo? That's gay." This is coming from the LITTLE KIDS. On the other hand, the older people I know respect Nintendo more and most of the Nintendo players I hang out with and play Smash Bros with are over 18.

Honestly, I am turned off when a company uses wannabe mature advertising, trying to act like their product is so mature and cool and hip that you have to buy it. It has the exact opposite effect on me. That's why I was so sickened by the XBox 360 MTV debut. All the stereotypes and rappers and 'cool' people.

[mac.head.high]

The games console world would will still be there if Sony hadn't originally stolen away the CD system for the SNES and made their own system. So, Sony made 13,00 games? You seem to forget, I asked for 1st party. I don't even think Nintendo have developed "13,00" games in their 20 year life span. Things invented and made by Sony. By invented I mean new things. Making consoles doesn't count unless they're actual innovations rather than "yup, faster graphics chip, that'll keep the graphics whores happy." "but mr.Sony, what about a new way to play the games instead? look at how popular the DS is!" "gameplay? there is no such thing."

Actually, Sony didn't steal anything. They had the development deal with Nintendo for the disc technology. And when Nintendo pulled out at the last moment Sony was pissed, but had this technology they developed, so they decided to use what they had developed.

Very contrary form than usual, Nintendo pulled a fast one on Sony. Especially leaving them high and dry. But in know way did Sony (in this instance) do anything underhanded to Nintendo. Rather the other way around.

But hey, that's the way the industry works.


And your right, Sony Studios didn't develop all 13,000 games available for the PS2 (and PS1). But how about this for innovation. They invented the backwards compatible gaming console, allowing gamers to enjoy their last generation of games for years to come. And what about the fact that since the console war began between Sony and M$, the video game market has grown so much and has became a business that all industry look towards. Before Sony stepped in, the Video Gaming market in a America was though to only be for Kids. I'd like to think Sony had a part in ushering in a new type of gaming for the older audiences. Also I think they can be attributed directly do the popularity of the DVD format. And for that we should all be little grateful to Sony.

Not to say someone else couldn't have done the same, but Sony is the company that ultimately did it.

Not to mention that tho Playstation and PS2 controller are widely held as the best currently used controller.

Although I'll admit that the 360 is as close to perfection as it possibly can be. I use one on my Mac.

[Foxer]

Before Sony stepped in, the Video Gaming market in a America was though to only be for Kids. I'd like to think Sony had a part in ushering in a new type of gaming for the older audiences.

I think the reason that there are more older gamers now is because the first generation of video game players (mine), who grew up with Atari 2600 and Intellivision are now older and we still play games.

I've had all the systems since Sega up to the 360. Both Xbox's have been used the most, but I think the Gamecube was the best machine of that Generation - the only problem was limited game selection. I loved my PS1 back in the day, but I actually sold my PS2 last year since I never used it - again, beacuse of a game selection i did not find appealing.

[Dagless]

Thats funny, in the UK at least the adults were more than entertained with the Commodore Amiga. Everyone and their uncle had an Amiga. Maybe the NES did seem like a kids console, but adults have always had their Spectrums, their Amiga's, their own system that most kids couldn't operate. Maybe it was different in American. I didn't grow up there.


... The PS2 was the best controller? wow. All through my college years I had folk asking me "how can I get a Gamecube controller working on my PS2?". I always thought the Wavebird was the most praised of all current gen controllers. But hey.

ah! comparison! on the last day of college we all brought our games machines in for a play. A bunch of guys could only muster an hour or 2 before they had to take a break from the PS2 controller. Whereas on our side of the wall we had a big 4 player of Smash Bros going for about 4 hours. We racked up so many coins :D not a complaint in sight. extremely ergonomic controller. I just get cramps around the knuckle of my index fingers on the PS1/2 (I had to get a 3rd party PS1 controller). And the analogue stick is so in the wrong place. Using it as a secondary input is just daft in this analogue 3D world we play in.

[mac.head.high]

Thats funny, in the UK at least the adults were more than entertained with the Commodore Amiga. Everyone and their uncle had an Amiga. Maybe the NES did seem like a kids console, but adults have always had their Spectrums, their Amiga's, their own system that most kids couldn't operate. Maybe it was different in American. I didn't grow up there.


... The PS2 was the best controller? wow. All through my college years I had folk asking me "how can I get a Gamecube controller working on my PS2?". I always thought the Wavebird was the most praised of all current gen controllers. But hey.

ah! comparison! on the last day of college we all brought our games machines in for a play. A bunch of guys could only muster an hour or 2 before they had to take a break from the PS2 controller. Whereas on our side of the wall we had a big 4 player of Smash Bros going for about 4 hours. We racked up so many coins :D not a complaint in sight. extremely ergonomic controller. I just get cramps around the knuckle of my index fingers on the PS1/2 (I had to get a 3rd party PS1 controller). And the analogue stick is so in the wrong place. Using it as a secondary input is just daft in this analogue 3D world we play in.

Again, it may just be an American thing, but the Gamecube controller always (at least to me and my friends) looked un-serious and childish. But that's purely by appearance. Just to note, my friends own all 3 systems and seem to be Xbox aligned, where as I only own a PS2 and 2 Xbox's, but am partial to the PS2 myself.

The Wavebird was/is indeed a very tight playing, aseptically pleasing controller. And it is the industry standard for wireless controllers. The 360 hasn't established itself well enough to even be considered. Although the 360's controller is quickly proving itself noteworthy as well.

There was also rumors that the first wired 360 controllers were miss-constructed. With the pressure sensitive elements under the D-Pad, and the dome buttons having only an on and off position. But now I can't find where they put the story now on Llamma.com (http://www.llamma.com).

In all actuallity, they're all really good controllers, but I think it comes down to personal preference, hand size, and the way you handle your controller.

But I think we can all agree that we've come a long way since the NES and Atari controllers. And for that, we can all be thankful.

[DrNeroCF]

Developers have said that playing a game with the Revolution controller is like playing Mario 64 for the first time.

Sorry guys, but video gaming isn't a 'cool' thing to do. It's something that me and my college friends get together and kick the snot out of each other in Smash Bros, Soul Calibur, TimeSplitters, Halo... marketing video games as 'cool' is a complete waste of time. If you need someone else to tell you that you're cool and you look to video games to do this, they're something seriously wrong with you.

[GFLPraxis]

Actually, Sony didn't steal anything. They had the development deal with Nintendo for the disc technology. And when Nintendo pulled out at the last moment Sony was pissed, but had this technology they developed, so they decided to use what they had developed.

Very contrary form than usual, Nintendo pulled a fast one on Sony. Especially leaving them high and dry. But in know way did Sony (in this instance) do anything underhanded to Nintendo. Rather the other way around.

But hey, that's the way the industry works.



That's not entirely true; Nintendo and Sony split up because Sony demanded a much larger portion of the profits than originally agreed to and demanded rights to license any games Nintendo produced on the system, and Nintendo broke off the deal.

Further, that was a disc addon to the SNES. The rumble, analog stick, and everything after was still copied.


EDIT:

Sony's Ken Kutagari had bought his children a Famicom and came away unimpressed by the technology. He approached Nintendo with some technology that his company was working on. The Kutaragi-designed sound chip for the Super Famicom would be a key element to the system and was slyly designed in such a way as to make effective development possible only with Sony's expensive development tools.

As an extension of the agreement, Sony made its most ambitious attempt at squeezing into the video game market by signing a deal with Nintendo that would allow it to develop and use CD-ROM drive technology in home console entertainment applications. Furthermore, games for Nintendo's forthcoming Super NES would be fully compatible with Sony's CD-based console.

Sony quickly began development on its home console using the proposed "Super Disc technology". The technology was not scheduled to be released for another 18 months. Sony's console was initially called the "Super Disc", and was supposed to be able to play both SNES cartridges and CD-ROMs, of which Sony was to be the "sole worldwide licenser," as stated in the contract.

Nintendo president, Hiroshi Yamauchi thought CD-ROM technology and multimedia would be a vital part of the future of video games. He increased Nintendo's research budget to facilitate the exploration of this new future.

Nintendo was searching for a format to use to expand its multimedia endeavors, however for some reason Nintendo did not read the contract closely or simply didn't heed enough caution. Hiroshi Yamauchi and Co. thought they were playing Sony, but in reality, Sony would come to play Nintendo like a fiddle.

Rumors surfaced indicating that Sony lawyers had skillfully crafted the agreement so that it allowed Sony to reap publishing profits from the SNES/Super Famicom CD-based games. These were the very profits Nintendo most sought to retain.

In its attempt to stay competitive with Sega, the convergence machines Nintendo today criticizes, were once the waters Nintendo intentionally sailed. (Although, with the drama that would soon follow, it's no surprise Nintendo developed a bias towards them.)

October 1991 saw the commercial release of the Philips' CD-i multimedia machine.

All was looking just fine for Nintendo until it found that the deal they had struck with Sony way back in 1988 granted Sony the right to control and license all the CD-based games for the "Super Disc". Nintendo was now to be at the mercy of Sony and its "Super Disc", which could play SNES carts and Sony-manufactured CDs. Nintendo, understandably, began to get worried.

When it became clear that CD-ROMs weren't a fluke and could turn into a major business, Nintendo Co. Ltd. president Hiroshi Yamauchi realized that the proposed alliance with Sony meant giving up the very foundation of Nintendo's business - absolute control over license and manufacturing.

In May of 1991, Nintendo of America's Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa flew to Eindhoven in the Netherlands and signed an agreement with Europe's biggest electronics manufacturer, Philips Electronics N.V. Under this new alliance, future Nintendo games would be playable on Philips' new CD-i system -- and Philips would in turn develop a CD-ROM add-on for the Super Famicom (SNES).

Under the contract, Nintendo would have complete control over licensing the games for the SNES add-on. As an extension of the agreement, Philips got the rights to use select Nintendo characters in some of their CD-i games. (One Mario game and three Zelda games were ultimately released.)

Meanwhile, Nintendo of America was busy preparing to introduce the Super Nintendo Entertainment System console to the North American market on September 9, 1991. The Super Nintendo was first scheduled to be on display at the June 1991 Consumer Electronics Show (CES).

In June of 1991, at the Chicago CES, Sony officially announced the Play Station (space intentional). As originally announced, the Play Station would have a port to play Super Nintendo cartridges, as well as a CD-ROM drive that would play 680 megabyte Sony Super Discs.

The machine would be able to play videogames as well as other forms of interactive entertainment, including movies, music and edutainment. Sony intended to draw on its family of companies, including Sony Music and Columbia Pictures, to develop software.

Olaf Olafsson, then chief of Sony Electronic Publishing, was seen on the set of Hook, Steven Spielberg's new Peter Pan movie, presumably deciding how the movie could be worked into a game for the fledgling Play Station.

In Fortune magazine, Olafsson was quoted as saying, "The video-game business...will be much more interesting (than when it was cartridge based). By owning a studio, we can get involved right from the beginning, during the writing of the movie."

By this point, Nintendo had just about all it could take. On top of the deal signed in 1988, Sony had also retained all rights to the SNES sound chip, which further exacerbated Nintendo. Sony had Nintendo by the balls...

Whether by coincidence, or good timing, at 9:00 AM, the day after Sony announced its plans to begin work on the Play Station, Nintendo and Howard Lincoln made an announcement of their own. Instead of confirming the company's alliance with Sony at CES, as everyone expected, Nintendo announced it was instead working with Philips - Sony's longtime rival - on the SNES CD-ROM drive. Philips' technology was superior, said Nintendo.

Sony caught wind of Nintendo's intention the night before. It made every attempt at getting a hold of Nintendo, however all calls went ignored. After the news sank in, Sony was furious.

http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=279


I don't think you can really blame either side. Nintendo hung Sony out to dry because Sony was trying to milk Nintendo's franchises behind their back. Nintendo broke their contract (bad) because Sony was using it to take advantage of them (bad).

[mac.head.high]

That's not entirely true; Nintendo and Sony split up because Sony demanded a much larger portion of the profits than originally agreed to and demanded rights to license any games Nintendo produced on the system, and Nintendo broke off the deal.

Further, that was a disc addon to the SNES. The rumble, analog stick, and everything after was still copied.


Can we consider the Dual-Analog sticks something unique? And/or touch sensitivity in buttons? I thought at least the touch sensitivity on all face and shoulder buttons was originated by Sony.

[GFLPraxis]

Can we consider the Dual-Analog sticks something unique? And/or touch sensitivity in buttons? I thought at least the touch sensitivity on all face and shoulder buttons was originated by Sony.

I think Sony was the first to have the touch sensitivity on face and shoulder buttons, yeah. So that and the EyeToy games are Sony's big innovations (the EyeToy itself is not, but Sony's implementation I must say better than any other camera-based games in the past).

I wouldn't really consider dual-analog an innovation. They simply added a stick like the SNES added two buttons. But they were the first out with that, so yeah. But it went something like this:

Sony releases the PS1 and its controller, which is a SNES pad with two extra shoulder buttons.

Nintendo releases the N64 controller with an analog stick and optional rumble.

Sony releases a second PS1 controller that adds two analog sticks (mostly for symmetry).

It strikes me as just trying to outdo Nintendo.

Oh, yeah, I editted my last post btw.

[mac.head.high]

I don't think you can really blame either side. Nintendo hung Sony out to dry because Sony was trying to milk Nintendo's franchises behind their back. Nintendo broke their contract (bad) because Sony was using it to take advantage of them (bad).

Cool. So that's what really happened. Facts are sweet. Thanks GFLPraxis.

Sony releases the PS1 and its controller, which is a SNES pad with two extra shoulder buttons.

Holy Crap! There was a short bus style PS1 controller with one stick?! I never knew their was a Mono-Stick PS1 controller. Also when was the rumble added to the PS1 controller GFLPraxis?

[GFLPraxis]

Cool. So that's what really happened. Facts are sweet. Thanks GFLPraxis.

np, I love google :D



Sony releases the PS1 and its controller, which is a SNES pad with two extra shoulder buttons.
Holy Crap! There was a short bus style PS1 controller with one stick?! I never knew their was a Mono-Stick PS1 controller. Also when was the rumble added to the PS1 controller GFLPraxis?

Naw, not one stick, no sticks. An SNES pad has no sticks ;)

Google to the rescue:
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/
Love that site.

First PS1 controller:
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/psx.jpg
Second PS1 controller, the Playstation Dual Analog (has no rumble!), released after the N64:
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/psx_a.jpg

Third PS1 controller, this time with rumble, the "Dual Shock":
http://www.axess.com/twilight/console/detail/psx_b.html

Then the PS2 controller, which added the capability to sense how much pressure on the buttons.

I actually learned something new reading this. Apparently the Dual Shock DID innovate one thing- the Dual Shock (third PS1 controller) let you click down the analog stick and counts that as L3 and R3. The Dual Analog and N64 controllers didn't count as a button click if you pushed the joystick.

So Sony's innovations:
Pressure sensing buttons
Clicking the analog sticks

[GFLPraxis]

Sony has "invented" and developed more than almost any other company in the rest of the world that they are trying to "copy". First off the fact you mentioned the iPod is STUPID and shows how ignorant you are. Guess who invented portable audio when Apple was still in diapers? In terms of what did Sony bring to the gaming world? Once again you are an idiot. Guess who co-developed the optical medium all current and coming game systems use? Anyways, lets see a list of products that I can remember off hand that Sony has invented:

Trinitron Colour Picture Tube
Betamax (far superior to crappier VHS)
Walkman (once again you blame Sony for trying to copy the iPod)
3 1/2 inch floppy disc (infrerior storage today but defianatly an important part of the computer revoloution)
The Compact Disc (coinvented with Philips accounts for CD Audio, CD-ROM and Video CD)
The camcorder
CD Player (eg. Discman, tell me who invented portable music again? Oh yeah Apple, right:rolleyes: )
MiniDisc
DVD (coinvented with Philips)
Blu-Ray (may or may not succeed but hopefully will over HD-DVD because of almost double the storage)

First off, before you bite my head off with Sony obsession, remember that Sony's divisions are VERY seperated. If you want to credit Sony's gaming division for inventing all these things, then you must also credit Sony's game division with the rootkit fiasco and all the other things they've done.


Sony's gaming division has done none of this. In fact, Sony's gaming division, in terms of hardware, has done nothing but release controllers that are generally copied off the competition and hardware that is almost always inferior (except for the storage medium). PSP is the first exception simply because there was no other gaming handheld competing at that price point (and even then, the controller is a PS2 controller with one analog stick and rumble ripped off). PS3 will likely be the second because it is coming out a year later at a higher price point. The PS2 always cost more than the GameCube and as much as the XBox and offered less power than either. The PS1 was in the same boat.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Sony's gaming division is teh evil (like I think of Microsoft's software division that makes Windows). They make some excellent games and have really, really good third party support. I got a PS2 just for Kingdom Hearts and Burnout 3 and I also own Gran Turismo 3 and will probably get a few other Sony games later on like the Jak series.

But don't try to say that no one can criticize Sony's lack of innovation and constant copying in the GAMING front because they've innovated in other fields.

Guess who invented portable audio when Apple was still in diapers? In terms of what did Sony bring to the gaming world?

Uh...what did Sony bring to the gaming world? They made a console with good games, fine, no problem if you like it for the games, but what's so special? *scratches head*
The Sega CD could play music CD's, as could the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast.
Only thing I can think of that Sony beat anyone to is DVD playback, because they were the first to have a DVD drive as the other systems came a year later and Sega launched a year too soon.

[mac.head.high]

Naw, not one stick, no sticks. An SNES pad has no sticks ;)

My bad, I misunderstood.


I actually learned something new reading this. Apparently the Dual Shock DID innovate one thing- the Dual Shock (third PS1 controller) let you click down the analog stick and counts that as L3 and R3. The Dual Analog and N64 controllers didn't count as a button click if you pushed the joystick.

So Sony's innovations:
Pressure sensing buttons
Clicking the analog sticks

Oh yeah, I totally overlooked the thum-stick click. Good digging GFLPraxis.

[illegalprelude]

if this is true, it will be a smart move. I would believe if anything, its not going to be an expensive project for them on a platform that already has over 100 million users and if the Revo is going to be in the same price point as the PS2, why not take some market share away from them. its smart.

[Dagless]

if this is true, it will be a smart move. I would believe if anything, its not going to be an expensive project for them on a platform that already has over 100 million users and if the Revo is going to be in the same price point as the PS2, why not take some market share away from them. its smart.

-Its going to have a hell of a lot more power than a PS2
-Its not using a watered down, seriously lacking version of what the Rev will have
-It has a unified and free online service
-It can play and download classic Nintendo games
-Its Nintendo. I mean its innovative rather than basic
-It links up to the best selling handheld game system of the moment
-It will have a voice chat/text feature
-Its a lot smaller than a PS2 (not Two) and looks a lot more modern
-Its controller is not limited to a 2D plane, or just an image (as seen by the system). Its a fully fledged 3D controller
-Its not a cheap attempt at something new
-It plays Mario 128, Metroid Prime 3, Smash Bros and Twilight Princess

All for the same price as a PS2! Using your logic.

[GFLPraxis]

if this is true, it will be a smart move. I would believe if anything, its not going to be an expensive project for them on a platform that already has over 100 million users and if the Revo is going to be in the same price point as the PS2, why not take some market share away from them. its smart.

Hm?

The Rev can be anywhere from $150-$250. By the time it comes out PS2 will be $99 and GameCube will cost like nothing to manufacture (easily allowing the GameCube to be 2 or 3 or more times more powerful). If you mean launch prices, the PS2 launched at $300...

[illegalprelude]

You guys are all looking at it the wrong way. Believe me, Ive been in retail for over 4 years.

Parents will come and look and prices and thats it. the Nintendo audiance is where the parents come and get it for their kid where the 360 is and PS2 and PSP and etc are where the kid has money, is in college or beyond and spends his money the way he wants.

Then parents will See the PS2 being cheaper with a cool game setup like that and will go with that. End of story. For games that require eyetoy and such, if you notice, their not jaw dropping graphic pushing games but simpler.

I know the Revo will work better in this new way then a unit for the PS2 will and its more powerful, sure but Sony has nothing to loose and only to gain from doing something like that. Im not saying its designed to compete head to head but its close enough for some parents to be like "nahh the $99 unit is just fine for me"

[GFLPraxis]

Well, except that the PS2 is already an old product at this point and most already have one.

And the setup is MUCH different. Rev is a next gen console and new product, PS2 is an old product with new camera-based games. The demand will be much different.

And honestly, I don't see the third party support being that good. Controller addons have never had good support. I think we'll see some games that use it, but most won't, while on the Revolution almost every game will.

I don't know if it detects depth and it certainly doesn't detect where on the screen you point.

[DEXTERITY]

You guys are all looking at it the wrong way. Believe me, Ive been in retail for over 4 years.

Parents will come and look and prices and thats it. the Nintendo audiance is where the parents come and get it for their kid where the 360 is and PS2 and PSP and etc are where the kid has money, is in college or beyond and spends his money the way he wants.

Then parents will See the PS2 being cheaper with a cool game setup like that and will go with that. End of story. For games that require eyetoy and such, if you notice, their not jaw dropping graphic pushing games but simpler.

I know the Revo will work better in this new way then a unit for the PS2 will and its more powerful, sure but Sony has nothing to loose and only to gain from doing something like that. Im not saying its designed to compete head to head but its close enough for some parents to be like "nahh the $99 unit is just fine for me"

I have to disagree. The GC is already $99 (and more powerful than a ps2) and when it comes to parents and kids this is the one system most employee's in retail suggest to a parent. The GC is already stereotyped as a system for kids. How is the ps2 with a price drop and a gimmicky controller going to change that? Even corporate want's to change that image and hasn't been very succesful in doing so.

And we won't even go into the games. The GC has a lot more popular kid (and "E" for everyone) games then the ps2. Whose to say we can't drop the price of the GC? or bundle a game with it.

The revolution will be in a class by it's self and a $99 ps2 isn't going to affect it.

[Dagless]

Last time I checked in the UK a PS2 cost a lot more than a GC. There was a point (we might even still be in it come to think of it!) where a GC cost less than an SP.

[mac.head.high]

I have to disagree. The GC is already $99 (and more powerful than a ps2) and when it comes to parents and kids this is the one system most employee's in retail suggest to a parent. The GC is already stereotyped as a system for kids. How is the ps2 with a price drop and a gimmicky controller going to change that? Even corporate want's to change that image and hasn't been very succesful in doing so.

And we won't even go into the games. The GC has a lot more popular kid (and "E" for everyone) games then the ps2. Whose to say we can't drop the price of the GC? or bundle a game with it.

The revolution will be in a class by it's self and a $99 ps2 isn't going to affect it.

I have to say that I disagree with this statement and add this. Nintendo's 3rd party game support is almost gone, and there are very few games still being developed for the Gamecube. Where as the PS2 is still coming out with games like Okami (http://ps2.ign.com/objects/678/678618.html) and other original properties still slated for later this year. I really think a systems catalog and public opinion of development status is what will continue the sales of PS2 and PS2 games. Sure a few units of the Gamecube will still get sold at a trickle, but the PS2 is still pushing massive amounts of units per month.

What is Nintendo offering between now and the revolution? Not much in the way games. It's a well know fact that the Gamecube is a great system that has reached is development cycle a while ago. Some how the PS2 keeps pushing more polygons and releasing good games, even with the shadow of the PS3 looming overhead. Where as is pretty apparent that Nintendo has already moved on from the Gamecube to the Revolution, generally leaving the Nintendo crowd justifiably bewildered and wondering what's next until it's subsequent release.

[DEXTERITY]

I have to say that I disagree with this statement and add this. Nintendo's 3rd party game support is almost gone, and there are very few games still being developed for the Gamecube. Where as the PS2 is still coming out with games like Okami (http://ps2.ign.com/objects/678/678618.html) and other original properties still slated for later this year. I really think a systems catalog and public opinion of development status is what will continue the sales of PS2 and PS2 games. Sure a few units of the Gamecube will still get sold at a trickle, but the PS2 is still pushing massive amounts of units per month.

What is Nintendo offering between now and the revolution? Not much in the way games. It's a well know fact that the Gamecube is a great system that has reached is development cycle a while ago. Some how the PS2 keeps pushing more polygons and releasing good games, even with the shadow of the PS3 looming overhead. Where as is pretty apparent that Nintendo has already moved on from the Gamecube to the Revolution, generally leaving the Nintendo crowd justifiably bewildered and wondering what's next until it's subsequent release.


All I'm saying is the ps2 won't affect anything having to do with the Revolution. Once you see it you will know why I say that. I never said the ps2 won't continue to sell as the ps1 did. Sony is actually supposed to drop the price of the ps2 in March or April to either 129.99 or 99.99. They are still debating about the 99.99 price point and corporate is fully aware of it.

[mac.head.high]

All I'm saying is the ps2 won't affect anything having to do with the Revolution.

Yeah, probably not. It would be stupid to focus on last cycles consoles anyway. Keep supporting them, but focus on the new stuff.

[benpatient]

wow. crappy sony hardware and wonderful nintendo hardware?

How many of you have ever blown into a Nintendo cartridge over and over and over trying to get mario 3 to work?

Crap, that still happens with the GBA micro!

[Dagless]

wow. crappy sony hardware and wonderful nintendo hardware?

How many of you have ever blown into a Nintendo cartridge over and over and over trying to get mario 3 to work?

Crap, that still happens with the GBA micro!

Never! I found Mario Bros 3 at a church sale too. So god knows who had it before. But yea. Never blown into Mario 3 :)

... So you're comparing Sony's latest machines to the NES, which had its US 20th birthday not so long ago? Right. And you've blown into a GB Micro? Thats funny. My brother took my Link to the Past on holiday with him 2 or 3 years ago (just after its launch). He came back and said he had lost the cartridge. I was annoyed as hell but just forgot about it. just a few months ago my parents decided to sell the caravan. Guess what? It had fallen down the back of the caravans fireplace. It was covered by so much dust the sticker was unreadable. My mum stuck it under the tap for a bit to clean the dust off. After its 2 years behind a fireplace. Guess what? It works now. The cart is scratched to high heaven, there are dents, chunks of the plastic missing. I've never had to blow into the cart and I've been playing that since its rediscovery.

[GFLPraxis]

wow. crappy sony hardware and wonderful nintendo hardware?

How many of you have ever blown into a Nintendo cartridge over and over and over trying to get mario 3 to work?

Crap, that still happens with the GBA micro!


Oh come on. You're using the NES as a comparison of modern hardware?

Let me clear this up.

I have blown into NES and Genesis cartridges. I have NEVER blown into:
SNES cartridges
N64 cartridges
GBA cartridges
GameCube disks
DS cartridges

And no, it doesn't happen with the GBA Micro.

If you compare historically, Sony has had disk formats that store more than Nintendo's but load much slower...and Nintendo's hardware has been superior in every other way. N64 and GameCube were much faster and more powerful than the PS2 and PS1.

Only mistake was that GameCube had crap online support to the point that nobody bothered to make their games online.

[Dagless]

I'd also like to add I've never blown into a Mega Drive cart :) The only cart that I've had to blow into was a pirate "39 in 1" GB cart. Which I've actually realised is nothing to do with having to blow into it. it just only starts up on its 2nd boot strangely enough. And half of the games no longer work... its mad. brilliant cart though.

[Abulia]

Wow, it sure is fun watching you Nintendo and Sony guys go at each other. <grabs popcorn> :D