Apple buys Data Center ($45M-$50M) [Archive]

MacRumors

Feb 27, 2006, 05:33 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

San Jose Business Journal is reporting (http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2006/02/27/story5.html) that Apple computer has acquired a never-used 107,000 sq. foot data center in Newark, CA. The center was originally designed for MCI WorldCom.

Data centers generally house computing, data-storage and networking equipment assisting in Web-based services and transactions.

This center is described as a "Tier IV" datacenter with high levels of redundancy and security.

What Apple plans to do with the Data Center remains up for speculation.

Bubbasteve

Feb 27, 2006, 05:36 PM

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.... since Steve can't demolish his old house, he bought this factory for his new home instead.
I know.... I'm quick

w_parietti22

Feb 27, 2006, 05:37 PM

hmmm.... More iDisk space? That doesn't seem worth $45M Maybe something to do with the next version of .Mac?

mazola

Feb 27, 2006, 05:37 PM

... then they should check out the thread about the iPod Video photo and the discussion of the mysterious Chinese characters.

vniow

Feb 27, 2006, 05:38 PM

iTMS expansion anyone?

OSXpert

Feb 27, 2006, 05:38 PM

Perhaps a company interested in offering the downloads of feature length movies would need such an expensive set up...

Chaszmyr

Feb 27, 2006, 05:39 PM

... then they should check out the thread about the iPod Video photo and the discussion of the mysterious Chinese characters.

Sorry OSTenpert, I ruined your joke. Took me about 5 seconds to understand, at which point it was no longer funny.. :o heh

sartinsauce

Feb 27, 2006, 05:39 PM

... then they should check out the thread about the iPod Video photo and the discussion of the mysterious Chinese characters.

LOL!!:D

Seriously, well almost seriously. This new facitlity is obviously going to be the headquarters for the construction of the new iDeath Star!

justflie

Feb 27, 2006, 05:40 PM

Perhaps a company interested in offering the downloads of feature length movies would need such an expensive set up...
exactly. or perhaps higher definition or (gasp) HD videos on iTMS?

bored

Feb 27, 2006, 05:40 PM

Spanky Deluxe

Feb 27, 2006, 05:40 PM

iTMS full length high def or dvd quality movie service, maybe rentable movies for $3.99 for three days or something?

runninmac

Feb 27, 2006, 05:41 PM

iTMS expansion anyone?

I second that. Hopefully he will announce either full feature films or more TV shows tomorrow. But DANG 107,000 is A LOT of space.

DMann

Feb 27, 2006, 05:42 PM

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.... since Steve can't demolish his old house, he bought this factory for his new home instead.
I know.... I'm quick

This could relate to telecommunications -- iPhone
Wow, coming to fruition at last!

virus1

Feb 27, 2006, 05:44 PM

either itms expansion, or the itms is just getting really busy. has anyone else noticed how slow it is?

Bubbasteve

Feb 27, 2006, 05:44 PM

maybe rentable movies for $3.99 for three days or something?

I'm not too sure how well that would go over with the general public... but then again that's how all video rental services work... for some reason I don't see this happening...when the day comes where you can buy full-length movies on your iPod I would assume that it would be for a higher price for ownership (possibly a 3.99 rental service as a different option)

agentkow

Feb 27, 2006, 05:44 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

This center is described as a "Tier IV" datacenter with high levels of redundancy.

Ooooh...high levels of redundancy.

agentkow

Feb 27, 2006, 05:45 PM

Ooooh...high levels of redundancy.

Ooooh...high levels of redundancy.

runninmac

Feb 27, 2006, 05:46 PM

[url=http://www.macrumors.com]http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif

This center is described as a "Tier IV" datacenter with high levels of redundancy and security.

WTF does that mean?

mazola

Feb 27, 2006, 05:48 PM

...$50M was a lot of money?

puuukeey

Feb 27, 2006, 05:48 PM

aswitcher

Feb 27, 2006, 05:48 PM

Steve got pissed Bill had his own computer at the IRS for his tax - so he bought a bigger one for himself.

EricNau

Feb 27, 2006, 05:52 PM

WTF does that mean?
"The more “mission critical” the application is, the more redundancy, robustness, and security required. Data centers can be classified by Tiers, with Tier 1 being the most basic and inexpensive, and Tier 4 being the most robust and costly. According to definitions from the Uptime Institute and the latest draft of TIA/EIA-942 (Telecommunications Infrastructure Standard for Data Centers), a Tier 1 data center is not required to have redundant power and cooling infrastructures. It needs only a lock for security and can tolerate up to 28.8 hours of downtime per year. In contrast, a Tier 4 data center must have redundant systems for power and cooling, with multiple distribution paths that are active and fault tolerant. Furthermore, access should be controlled with biometric readers and single-person entryways, gaseous fire suppression is required, the cabling infrastructure should have a redundant backbone, and the facility can permit no more than 0.4 hours of downtime per year.

Tier 1 or 2 is usually sufficient for enterprise data centers that primarily serve users within a corporation. Financial data centers are typically Tier 3 or 4 because they are critical to our economic stability and, therefore, must meet higher standards set by our government. Public data centers that provide disaster recovery / backup services are also built to higher standards."

Link to Article (http://www.panduit.com/enabling_technologies/091903.asp)

xsnightclub

Feb 27, 2006, 05:55 PM

What Apple plans to do with the Data Center remains up for speculation.

Relocate the rest of the board of directors of Disney to a secure, undisclosed location.

therevolution

Feb 27, 2006, 05:58 PM

Newark California (http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?name=&addr=&state=CA&csz=Newark%2C+CA&ds=n&uzip=94560&mag=5&desc=&country=US&dma=807&cat=trav&resize=l&trf=0&lat=37.529819&lon=-122.03952&mlt=37.529819&mln=-122.03952&rezoom=0&.intl=us&addrtype=3&compass=&i_ov=1&appid=&pan_x=0&pan_y=0&panable=1), not New Jersey. Right near Fremont, home of the original Macintosh factory.
Yes indeed. I'll even throw out a better map: (the article gives the street name, but not the exact address)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=eureka+dr,+newark,+ca&ll=37.510526,-121.99959&spn=0.014366,0.033989&t=k

tjwett

Feb 27, 2006, 06:00 PM

.Mac storage? iTunes Music Store storage? i don't find this terribly exciting.

rockthecasbah

Feb 27, 2006, 06:01 PM

haha i just got done reading the article about this on cultofmac.com and was just about to send it in when this was made...:) Very interesting though, im sure it is for expansion of iTMS video but still not sure about full length movies at the moment. In the future, perhaps, but not now.

runninmac

Feb 27, 2006, 06:01 PM

... snip all...

Oh thanks! Sounds all 007ish!

pdpfilms

Feb 27, 2006, 06:01 PM

Financial data centers are typically Tier 3 or 4 because they are critical to our economic stability and, therefore, must meet higher standards set by our government.
Link to Article (http://www.panduit.com/enabling_technologies/091903.asp)
Looks like we should all prepare for iBank.

theappleguy

Feb 27, 2006, 06:03 PM

That sure is a large datacenter, bigger than any of The Planet's ones. There is only a small number of reasons Apple would need this sort of facility:

1) Huge expansion of .Mac features and customer numbers.
2) Expected growth of sales for iTunes.
3) A new service (most likely) that offers streamed movies and television content.

I doubt the latter has anything to do with tomorrow's announcement though, probably something that will be announced at Macworld SF 2007. There could be products linked to it though such as Airport Express AV and new FrontRow enabled Macs. :)

dontmatter

Feb 27, 2006, 06:07 PM

107000 square feet=how much storage capacity and bandwith? AKA, is apple adding 5% to it's current capacity for future ITMS sales and catalog, or is this 50%, indicating a big move coming in video and movies for apple?

To figure that one out, is this 107000 square feet of servers in racks, or 100000 sq ft. of cables, cooling systems, redundant cables and cooling systems, back up power supplies, bathrooms, security desk... and 7000 square feet of computers?

ironicofoeva

Feb 27, 2006, 06:08 PM

place to hide new true video ipod?

... sorry, i just like to get a rise out of all those who are oh-so-sure it is definitely not coming tomorrow or ever :)

maybe its jus' a big friggin 'crib' so he can get awn mtv, yuh know, it's jus' so COOL to be on tha' show... yo.

JAMiN

p.s. Maybe its a place to play hide n seek! haha that would be great... yeahhh i'm a big kid at heart

xsnightclub

Feb 27, 2006, 06:10 PM

Manufacture these:

Detlev

Feb 27, 2006, 06:12 PM

Nothing mystereous about it. They need the expansion for the increased sales in iTunes. The store is going down more often during peak hours. I've been seeing the message "The iTunes store is temporarily unavailable. Please try again later" on a regular basis now. It's about time they did this. I was just expecting it sooner.

It would be nice if it tied in with some super enhancement of the store somehow but I don't imagine that they could get all the hardware up to speed by weeks end.

dlastmango

Feb 27, 2006, 06:13 PM

...and do you think this will be a turn-key type facility.... since it was once a MCi communications center it wont take much to convert it and get a service of some kind up and running in minimal time?

Or is it like steve to gut the place and install 10,000 Xserve's to build his new "idea"

Chris

bigandy

Feb 27, 2006, 06:13 PM

i think it could be linked to tomorrow's announcement.

you have the big launch of full movies on iTunes, and coming in a month or two. you have the iPod Video - proper video..

of course apple couldn't hide this sort of purchase for long so they hide it as long as they can.. and help to start building up the RDF and excitement for tomorrow...

nagromme

Feb 27, 2006, 06:14 PM

This does sound like iTunes and/or .Mac expansion--not surprising, since iTMS's growth is documented fact.

What this does NOT sound like is anything we will see at tomorrow's announcements... unless Apple can set up a new service REALLY fast :)

... then they should check out the thread about the iPod Video photo and the discussion of the mysterious Chinese characters.
I'd discuss them if I knew what they meant :confused:

Sean7512

Feb 27, 2006, 06:15 PM

I would think that this has NOTHING to do with the announcement tomorrow, so don't expect a movie store yet, UNLESS this was purchased a while ago but just made public. If it was just bought, we probably won't hear about it until maybe the 30th anniversary? That would give them a month to set up servers, etc.

We will see, but I think that it is obvious...SJ is using this to lock Mr. Gates away before his big announcement tomorrow night :p

Fiveos22

Feb 27, 2006, 06:23 PM

...duely quoted...

Very nice blurb...thanks.

ppc_michael

Feb 27, 2006, 06:23 PM

Ooooh...high levels of redundancy.

MacMosher

Feb 27, 2006, 06:27 PM

Manufacture these:
brilliant just brilliant....

Don't think for a second that this has anything to do with tomorrow... I dont want to hear it

DannyBoye

Feb 27, 2006, 06:27 PM

This does sound like iTunes and/or .Mac expansion--not surprising, since iTMS's growth is documented fact.

What this does NOT sound like is anything we will see at tomorrow's announcements... unless Apple can set up a new service REALLY fast :)

I'd discuss them if I knew what they meant :confused:

Just because this deal was published today does not mean it dident happen months ago. This could have been in escrow months and months ago and apple could have had access to the building the whole time. To me it would not make since to make public, the purchase of such a large data center untill it's completed, ESPICALLY with how undercover apples is. I think it's by no chance that this was 'discovered' THE DAY BEFORE new products are to be released. Just my thought.

nagromme

Feb 27, 2006, 06:28 PM

Do these Data Centers usually sell with full hardware (CPUs and storage) already installed in them? Or could "Redundancy" just refer to power, cooling, network cabling, and/or bathrooms?

Apple runs their web site, online store, and iTunes (and I assume .Mac too) off of Apple Xserves, so if there IS hardware already in the facility, I imagine it's going to be replaced.

Probie

Feb 27, 2006, 06:32 PM

Mechcozmo

Feb 27, 2006, 06:34 PM

Do these Data Centers usually sell with full hardware (CPUs and storage) already installed in them? Or could "Redundancy" just refer to power, cooling, network cabling, and/or bathrooms?.

Port-a-Potties are about 10 square feet. Thus, 10,700 Port-a-Potties max. Of course, standard load is much less, so that you can have room for computers, etc. ~3,000 Port-a-Potties (77,000 sq. feet leftover) and ~30,000 processors. (just Jeffery's tubes left over)

iriejedi

Feb 27, 2006, 06:34 PM

iTMS expansion anyone?

Faster iWEB!

inkswamp

Feb 27, 2006, 06:37 PM

wishnias

Feb 27, 2006, 06:38 PM

MCI WorldCom eh? call me an unrealistic optimist if you must, but my powers of totally unfounded speculation tell me that, in addition to iTMS expansion, this will be the new home of the iPhone iNetwork service!! Apple could just buy space on someone's network and offer service right? If I'm way off on that fill me in, not sure how the cell networks work.

YoGramMamma

Feb 27, 2006, 06:38 PM

I wonder if this has much to do exclusively with iTMS or .Mac at all. I bet its just room for overall company growth... including the iTMS and .Mac.

I mean I remember hearing from someone who had been on the Apple campus, and if I remember correctly, the iTMS part wasnt that grand at all. Smaller than they had thought at least. I dont remember where exactly i heard this, or how accurate it even is but... if its true, then i'm sure they wouldnt be allocating hunders of thousands of sqft to only this and .Mac which is probably less cumbersome than the iTMS.

I would like to see this linked to something we will hear about on the 28th, but unless this is an aquisition they made some time ago that has been kept under wraps, I think we're talking WWDC 06 before we hear anything come of it... at best.. but probably more along the lines of MWSF 2007.

Enterprise8875

Feb 27, 2006, 06:40 PM

I love Apple. All of their announcments are like a CSI mystery where we get new clues every day. What we have to figure out is if this is part of the short term or long term super secret plan.

nagromme

Feb 27, 2006, 06:55 PM

I live in Newark. The building they bought is less than half a mile away from my school. Tomorrow after school, I will go to it, take pictures of the exterior and try to worm my way inside, if possible. Anyhting that I shoul look for in particular?
A criminal record?

Port-a-Potties are about 10 square feet. Thus, 10,700 Port-a-Potties max. Of course, standard load is much less, so that you can have room for computers, etc. ~3,000 Port-a-Potties (77,000 sq. feet leftover) and ~30,000 processors. (just Jeffery's tubes left over)
What I would like is to not ever hear the phrase standard load in that context again :o

kresh

Feb 27, 2006, 06:56 PM

So do you think that Apple will license OS X Server to itself to run on the generic hardware for this facility?

Or will they replace the servers with Apple hardware?

boncellis

Feb 27, 2006, 06:56 PM

This does sound like iTunes and/or .Mac expansion...

There can be little doubt that the iTMS would greatly benefit from upgraded and increased capacity available through a facility such as this, but my interest was piqued by the enormity of the new digs. I realize that the iTMS is going to continue to grow and include more options from different television networks, record labels and perhaps film studios, but how rapid would such growth have to be to necessitate the purchase of a Tier IV Data Center?

It could be that the situation and/or price was too good for Apple to pass up, but it seems like there is something more at work here. For all the talk of Apple partnering with various companies, Apple has not repeatedly shown that, in many instances, it can implement its own model and compete directly with an entity that was not previously considered a rival.

Call it a funny feeling, but I see a conflict with a group like Google on the horizon. Apple will always be a superior hardware manufacturer, but its success in providing services once thought beyond its capability cannot be denied. Though new projects are always subject to cost effective constraints, the iTMS cannot be, in my estimation, the ultimate embodiment of Apple's reach into the daily rituals of consumers' lives.

ezekielrage_99

Feb 27, 2006, 06:57 PM

This sounds very Vauxhall Cross for Apple....

I wonder what's going in there?

muffinman

Feb 27, 2006, 06:58 PM

oh please tell me this: an ultra huge apple store! Wouldnt that be great?:D

mrzeve

Feb 27, 2006, 06:59 PM

Apple is obviously enclosing this data center into a metallic case and selling it as the new PowerMac.

But seriously, what are the logical possibilites for this type of center? It doesnt seem logical to me that it would be for anything iWeb related, because they seem to have that under control.

Perhaps they will begin streaming media to iPods. Commercials, Trailers, Videos, Featured Bands, Etc.

But honestly we will probably never know what Apple did with this Data Center, as it will likely be a behind the curtains type of thing that we wont even notice.

amateurmacfreak

Feb 27, 2006, 07:06 PM

andrewag

Feb 27, 2006, 07:09 PM

Wouldn't a consolidation of other data centres to one make more sense. Maybe they have run out of room on their existing facilities and are moving to a larger one?

macidiot

Feb 27, 2006, 07:10 PM

Peace

Feb 27, 2006, 07:13 PM

xsnightclub

Feb 27, 2006, 07:14 PM

While interesting, I'm not sure how this is front page rumor material.

Then again it could be for iTunes and movies... :D

Do you answer your own qestions often?

Well, I guess you do.

NEENAHBOY

Feb 27, 2006, 07:14 PM

I skimmed the article, but don't recall it saying when the purchase was finalized. If it was 60 days ago or earlier, I'd say an iTunes Video Store is a distinct possibility. However, if it was finalized prior to then, I don't think we'll be seeing it tomorrow.

I'm basing the above on the assumption that, if they do announce a video store, it would go live directly after the event.

KaiMac

Feb 27, 2006, 07:15 PM

While interesting, I'm not sure how this is front page rumor material.

Apple could very well just be buying this for internal data warehousing. For example to meet sarb-ox requirements.

Then again it could be for iTunes and movies... :D

Coming from the data-center business, $45 million for a Tier IV data center is pennies on the dollar. This is a great pickup for Apple and will probably be used for a combination of web services and internal applications/hosting. At 107,000 sq feet for $45 Million dollars means they paid approximately $467.00 per sq foot for an N+1 redundant data center in prime real estate area of Newark / NY. Compared to what MCI paid to build this thing, that is a steal. Nice move Steve....Whoever is hosting all of Apples stuff now should be crapping their pants on that lost customer. Don't read anymore into it than this. I doubt they will end up using all 107,000 sq feet any time soon, but there migration costs for the future sure are minimal now. One other trend in the data center business these days is to split your architecture across two coasts for redundancy and fault tolerant operations in case of a disaster. I'm sure this facility will mirror what happens out west and will provide that redundancy.

KaiMac

supafly1703

Feb 27, 2006, 07:17 PM

Just another step towards full-blown media distribution...

maestro55

Feb 27, 2006, 07:18 PM

I live in Newark. The building they bought is less than half a mile away from my school. Tomorrow after school, I will go to it, take pictures of the exterior and try to worm my way inside, if possible. Anyhting that I shoul look for in particular?

If you do manage to get any pictures (even if it is just the exterior, which I suspect will be all you will be able to get) be sure to post them on here!

As for the data center, as others have stated, I think perhaps it doesn't tie in directly with tomorrows annoucements, just that they couldn't pass up such a great deal and now they have a data center for when they do expand and offer more and more services.

boncellis

Feb 27, 2006, 07:19 PM

This datacenter "may" be loosely related to tomorrows fun,new products but in a near future sort of way..

There is no way Apple could buy a mothballed datacenter and have it up and runniing in 2 days.

While I have no doubt that you're correct, the braintrust at Apple has a penchant for announcing things that are still weeks away--and a lot of people still lap it up.

Your opinion on the possible impact of this purchase on a potential April 1st soiree?

BornAgainMac

Feb 27, 2006, 07:21 PM

Yes indeed. I'll even throw out a better map: (the article gives the street name, but not the exact address)

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=eureka+dr,+newark,+ca&ll=37.510526,-121.99959&spn=0.014366,0.033989&t=k

Next, where is Steve's house? I want to see what it looks like from space.

NEENAHBOY

Feb 27, 2006, 07:21 PM

I'm sure this facility will mirror what happens out west and will provide that redundancy.

Yes it will, seeing as how it's in Newark, California.

:D

Peace

Feb 27, 2006, 07:22 PM

While I have no doubt that you're correct, the braintrust at Apple has a penchant for announcing things that are still weeks away--and a lot of people still lap it up.

Your opinion on the possible impact of this purchase on a potential April 1st soiree?

I'd be a fool to speculate on April 1st. ;)

reyesmac

Feb 27, 2006, 07:29 PM

If Steve does not talk about this tomorrow then there are going to be some huge announcements in a few months time.

mjstew33

Feb 27, 2006, 07:31 PM

I know... it's going to be where all the super secret apple rumors ...become true!!

:D

jbernie

Feb 27, 2006, 07:32 PM

1) The purchase price appears to be very cheap, i'd guess it is without any servers etc so apple can outfit it with its x serves and what not.

2) Although onthe surface this could be over kill, i would guess that any company wanting to expand that needs this kind of place would buy more than it needs if the price is right. Why not buy double what you require if you are getting it for 1/2 the price?

3) Although the building was built for MCI the nature of the building does not suggest it is a facility for telecom functions, MCI would have been inclined to load the place up with routers & servers etc for routing of internet or telecom traffic, Apple can fill it up with the same equipment and use it to serve tunes, movies etc.

4) If Apple was to sell it's own cell phone and also act as a provider (unlikely) I would suggest that it would be reselling on an existing providers network.

twoodcc

Feb 27, 2006, 07:35 PM

interesting. i wonder what they'll use it for

dernhelm

Feb 27, 2006, 07:35 PM

Data centers generally house computing, data-storage and networking equipment assisting in Web-based services and transactions.

Well as long as we are now all becoming masters of the obvious, I'd say this has something to do with a certain web service that is planning to extend (iDisk).

awesomehobbes

Feb 27, 2006, 07:35 PM

Obviously they are going to take over as telecom giant from MCI WorldCom and actually not suck at it.

boncellis

Feb 27, 2006, 07:40 PM

I'd be a fool to speculate on April 1st. ;)

Again, I defer to your intellect.

However, I hope that sentiment is not echoed throughout these hallowed halls, MacRumors should prove to be a destination for high comedy.

runninmac

Feb 27, 2006, 07:42 PM

Heres an image from Appleinsider.com

beachboy89

Feb 27, 2006, 07:45 PM

I know this is a little off topic but Ive always wondered, where is the music store and how big of a building is it in?

gekko513

Feb 27, 2006, 07:51 PM

... let's see that's 10 000 squaremeters ... That's a lot ...

Whether it mean an iTunes Movie Store or just room for general expension it should mean a good thing for those of us who use Apple online services.

Faster .Mac anyone?

the.snitch

Feb 27, 2006, 07:53 PM

Heres an image from Appleinsider.com

Im guessing its the large building at the top of that pic with all the A/C vents on the roof?

mrjamin

Feb 27, 2006, 07:57 PM

I'd be surprised if this datacentre was for handling iTMS content. IIRC, bandwidth on that scale within the US is very, very expensive - a lot of places (inc. Google, Amazon, Akamai, who host a lot of Apple stuff) use datacentres in Ireland as it works out cheaper to serve from there.

Don't forget that a data centres don't just provide links to the outside world, it could be just a massive backup facility incase one infinite loop gets shat on or something.

I could be wrong though, it may be that only Europe use Ireland's bandwidth.

7on

Feb 27, 2006, 08:03 PM

Finally, .Mac that won't suck.

gekko513

Feb 27, 2006, 08:04 PM

Heres an image from Appleinsider.com
What does the chinese writing mean? I think it could be important.

http://lavacat.com/diverse/datacenter.jpg

;)

ccperkdog

Feb 27, 2006, 08:06 PM

thejadedmonkey

Feb 27, 2006, 08:08 PM

What does the chinese writing mean? I think it could be important.

http://lavacat.com/diverse/datacenter.jpg

;)
It says "this side", so that the satalite knows which side of the building (roof or basement) to photograph.:p

thejadedmonkey

Feb 27, 2006, 08:09 PM

What would Apple need a data center this big for...

Here is my guess. They realize that given the hacking communities obbsession with putting OS X on non-Apple Intels, and their success at it, Apple would rather sell OS X as an operating system for any PC. Maybe that is what Jobs is gonna announce tomorrow...or April 1st. Anyways, given Microsoft's thunder stealing attempt at a media event, Jobs should trump them and announce just that.
Just a lil thought on the microsoft tangent...
The Orgami project has been up for wayy longer than the apple invites were out. I think apple knew about MS's project and are delibratley one-upping them.

joemama

Feb 27, 2006, 08:11 PM

As someone already stated, this deal has been in the works for some time now, at least a few months. And it is no coincidence that this San Jose paper printed this story today. This is all planned.

How about this theory:

Apple signed a short-term, exclusive deal months ago with the a few tv networks to "test" out the selling of TV shows on iTunes. This was a test run so-to-speak in order to see what the demand (and sales) were like. At the same time they began looking to buy a large data center.

As expected, sales of videos and video ipods have been high, and Apple now feels confident and is ready to sell feature films as well. They'll need a lot of bandwidth which explains the data center as well.

What I am hoping for is the announcement of high quality shows or movies, which may also play on a brand new widescreen iPod. (or iPad)

pdpfilms

Feb 27, 2006, 08:14 PM

I live in Newark. The building they bought is less than half a mile away from my school. Tomorrow after school, I will go to it, take pictures of the exterior and try to worm my way inside, if possible. Anyhting that I shoul look for in particular?
The place doesn't look gated or anything, I think you should get into the parking lot no problem. Get plenty of exterior pictures, as I doubt you'll find any way inside.

macidiot

Feb 27, 2006, 08:20 PM

Do you answer your own qestions often?

Well, I guess you do.

Do you post snarky responses to tongue in cheek comments often?

Well, I guess you do.

Anxiously waiting for the next article about Apple's office furniture buying habits...:rolleyes:

whee900

Feb 27, 2006, 08:27 PM

One thing: online services

MarcelV

Feb 27, 2006, 08:43 PM

Apple could very well just be buying this for internal data warehousing. For example to meet sarb-ox requirements.:confused:
And how does data warehousing and SOX come together. SOX is about processes, documentation and sign-offs. Not data storage. Just confused.

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 08:43 PM

Coming from the data-center business, $45 million for a Tier IV data center is pennies on the dollar. This is a great pickup for Apple and will probably be used for a combination of web services and internal applications/hosting. At 107,000 sq feet for $45 Million dollars means they paid approximately $467.00 per sq foot for an N+1 redundant data center in prime real estate area of Newark / NY. Compared to what MCI paid to build this thing, that is a steal. ...

It's probably a decent deal, but I'm not sure I'd agree it's a steal. Building a 100,000 sq. ft. tier IV datacenter from the gruond up on similar real estate (Newark California, not NJ/NYC) would probably run around $130-$150 mil, including network infrastructure. So $50 mil sounds great, until you factor in the inevitable retrofit costs to get the server density up to modern standards. This thing is 5 years old, which is a bit long in the tooth. To get any sort of decent power/cooling/network/space density out of it for 2006-era (i.e. HOT) CPU's, I betcha they have to sink another 50-80 mil into it over the next few years. Still less than a new place maybe, but then you have to remember they're located uncomfortably close to the San Andreas. Not a lot of execs want to explain why they built their crown jewel on a fault line, so I'm sure MCI was happy to sell.

Anyway, 100,000 sq. ft. is pretty big by datacenter standards. Even if they don't get great server density out of it, it's still a ton of space. If the plan is for iTMS or .Mac expansion or a new video business, they could outfit it with a couple of petabytes of storage and a thousand servers to run all of the above, and still have 80,000 sq. ft. left to play with. I'm guessing this acquisition has more to do with Apple's continued growth and need to consolidate numerous smaller facilities than it does one specfic new service offering.

AvSRoCkCO1067

Feb 27, 2006, 08:43 PM

One thing: online services

Congrats Sherlock ;)

The widescreen dpi is pathetic right now; if Apple wants to sell videos, or ever wants to set up a Mac Mini media center that can REPLACE DVDs or REPLACE subscription cable they'll need a center like this to store some really big files...

Templetalker

Feb 27, 2006, 08:44 PM

I live in Newark. The building they bought is less than half a mile away from my school. Tomorrow after school, I will go to it, take pictures of the exterior and try to worm my way inside, if possible. Anyhting that I shoul look for in particular?

Probie, go tonight! Muhaha! A little adventure with some buds? Wish I was with you! Look for uhhh lots of movement and security guards that look sociable ; ) Seriously do it! :cool: :eek: :) :D

Templetalker

Feb 27, 2006, 08:46 PM

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 08:47 PM

:confused:
And how does data warehousing and SOX come together. SOX is about processes, documentation and sign-offs. Not data storage. Just confused.

SOX rules also result in requirements for reporting and auditing. You have to be able to produce answers to questions on financial data that can be up to 7-10 years old. So once SOX became a reality, many companies immediately started looking at how they were going to retain their financial records (and supporting information) for much longer periods of time. That goes directly to storage requirements, not to mention figuring out how to maintain legacy systems for longer stretches, etc.

Templetalker

Feb 27, 2006, 08:48 PM

There can be little doubt that the iTMS would greatly benefit from upgraded and increased capacity available through a facility such as this, but my interest was piqued by the enormity of the new digs. I realize that the iTMS is going to continue to grow and include more options from different television networks, record labels and perhaps film studios, but how rapid would such growth have to be to necessitate the purchase of a Tier IV Data Center?

It could be that the situation and/or price was too good for Apple to pass up, but it seems like there is something more at work here. For all the talk of Apple partnering with various companies, Apple has not repeatedly shown that, in many instances, it can implement its own model and compete directly with an entity that was not previously considered a rival.

Call it a funny feeling, but I see a conflict with a group like Google on the horizon. Apple will always be a superior hardware manufacturer, but its success in providing services once thought beyond its capability cannot be denied. Though new projects are always subject to cost effective constraints, the iTMS cannot be, in my estimation, the ultimate embodiment of Apple's reach into the daily rituals of consumers' lives.

Thank you Zandor Bot 292.

mdriftmeyer

Feb 27, 2006, 09:04 PM

"The more “mission critical” the application is, the more redundancy, robustness, and security required. Data centers can be classified by Tiers, with Tier 1 being the most basic and inexpensive, and Tier 4 being the most robust and costly. According to definitions from the Uptime Institute and the latest draft of TIA/EIA-942 (Telecommunications Infrastructure Standard for Data Centers), a Tier 1 data center is not required to have redundant power and cooling infrastructures. It needs only a lock for security and can tolerate up to 28.8 hours of downtime per year. In contrast, a Tier 4 data center must have redundant systems for power and cooling, with multiple distribution paths that are active and fault tolerant. Furthermore, access should be controlled with biometric readers and single-person entryways, gaseous fire suppression is required, the cabling infrastructure should have a redundant backbone, and the facility can permit no more than 0.4 hours of downtime per year.

Tier 1 or 2 is usually sufficient for enterprise data centers that primarily serve users within a corporation. Financial data centers are typically Tier 3 or 4 because they are critical to our economic stability and, therefore, must meet higher standards set by our government. Public data centers that provide disaster recovery / backup services are also built to higher standards."

Link to Article (http://www.panduit.com/enabling_technologies/091903.asp)

Well written overview.

bloogersnigen

Feb 27, 2006, 09:05 PM

they need more servers to have full length movies on itunes
yeah:p

AidenShaw

Feb 27, 2006, 09:12 PM

:confused:
And how does data warehousing and SOX come together. SOX is about processes, documentation and sign-offs. Not data storage. Just confused.
You have to store the info about the processes, documentation and signoffs. Oh, and there might be an email about a process, document or signoff.

SOX is about data storage (and search and retrieval), very big time....

kretzy

Feb 27, 2006, 09:23 PM

I don't think it's anything to get that excited about. As others have said, it's simply for future online expansion.

achie25

Feb 27, 2006, 09:23 PM

Maybe Steve just wants a big building to play hide-n-seek or dodgeball or laser tag with his buddies! :p

AidenShaw

Feb 27, 2006, 09:24 PM

Next, where is Steve's house? I want to see what it looks like from space.
Just enter "waverley and santa rita, palo alto, ca" into the Google map page. The Steve's house is the east corner lot at the corner of Waverley and Santa Rita in PA.

If your map software takes an address - it's 2101 Waverley St, Palo Alto, CA, 94301.

It's just another house in the neighbourhood - although since Jobs knocked down the house next door (on Santa Rita) for his garden his lot's a bit bigger than average for the street ;) .

runninmac

Feb 27, 2006, 09:31 PM

AidenShaw you just made my life a little more complete... as weird as that is to say about knowing where someone lives

kwajo.com

Feb 27, 2006, 09:33 PM

I live in Newark. The building they bought is less than half a mile away from my school. Tomorrow after school, I will go to it, take pictures of the exterior and try to worm my way inside, if possible. Anyhting that I shoul look for in particular?

as someone who has snuck into secured areas to photograph them (a video surveilled, razor-wire enclosed, oil refinery/shipping terminal along the atlantic seaboard) I have some advice:
1) beware are dogs, they are quieter than you think
2) don't bring anything with you that you'd be regret having taken away from you
3) wear good running shoes that are also water-tight
4) you need to remember #3 because you might have to end up escaping through a bog
5) do it during the day so you don't have to use the flash
6) if you have to dig under a fence, be sure to check for underground barbed-wire first, or just don't dig with your hands

and most of all, have fun (but don't break anything) :)

Shamus

Feb 27, 2006, 09:36 PM

Damn 107,000 spuare feet of area would store ALOT. How much would iTMS consist of now? I estimated by multiplying amount of songs (app. 3,000,000) by about 5 MB per song.....its only about 15 TB. surely 107,000 square feet can hold way more than that!!!! HD content would be ALOT more than music.....id say this is for HD content on iTunes

Shamus

Feb 27, 2006, 09:42 PM

Just enter "waverley and santa rita, palo alto, ca" into the Google map page. The Steve's house is the east corner lot at the corner of Waverley and Santa Rita in PA.

If your map software takes an address - it's 2101 Waverley St, Palo Alto, CA, 94301.

It's just another house in the neighbourhood - although since Jobs knocked down the house next door (on Santa Rita) for his garden his lot's a bit bigger than average for the street ;) .

Is this steve job's house??

osustudent

Feb 27, 2006, 09:42 PM

I agree with all of those who are writing that the timing of this article is not a coincidence. It's not as if they purchased this building last night. The great - and frustrating - part of Apple is knowing that there is a plan for product releases, etc, in the future. That's why we're all on here reading page after page of these forums. It wouldn't shock me if this is included in tomorrow's announcements - it wouldn't shock me if it wasn't.

As a sidenote, I think that Steve, if he wasn't already, will probably pull something out of his sleeve to cast a shadow over Microsoft so large that their annoucement won't see the light of day. A little dramatic? Yeah. Hey, I like writing.

JohnMcKee

Feb 27, 2006, 09:42 PM

MacNemesis

Feb 27, 2006, 09:45 PM

You have to store the info about the processes, documentation and signoffs. Oh, and there might be an email about a process, document or signoff.

SOX is about data storage (and search and retrieval), very big time....

Well yeah, but 1 feature film at HD should be able to hold all the financial data for several years. Transactions notwithstanding, business data pales in comparison to multimedia. Even email is paltry to what apple has on iTMS. You certainly wouldn't need 100k sqft+ for that.

windowshater51

Feb 27, 2006, 09:52 PM

this is a bit off topic but why the hell did macshrine.com go down?

MacNemesis

Feb 27, 2006, 09:52 PM

This isn't a big deal, really. iTunes, .Mac, Movie Trailers, The Apple Store, they all require data center space, quite a bit of it actually. Apple is most likely currently leasing it from companies that run data centers like The Planet, or runs their own data center that is significantly smaller than this. They had the chance to pick up their own data center, or a larger one than the currently have at a reasonable price, so they bought it.

On top of that, any space that they aren't using right now can be leased out to other companies.

Nope. Unless times have changed, iTMS runs right out of 1 Infinite Loop. Although they used to run on Sun equipment, it's Xserves/RAIDS now. In addition to the inevitable movies, Apple is also helping out Universities with podcasts with iTunes U. (http://www.apple.com/education/solutions/itunes_u/). There's little doubt that will take a bit of storage. Especially if interest is as high as the EDU chatter suggests it is.

HRC

Feb 27, 2006, 09:52 PM

Right you are. 107,000 sq ft is not too far off the size of a typical Target store. Holy cow.

I'm willing to bet it's expansion of itms, but I'd put money on full-length movies. Them's some big TBs goin' in there.

Unless they're finally going iTVo in tomorrow's announcement...

pianodude123

Feb 27, 2006, 09:53 PM

Well it doesn't take a genius to figure this one out.... since Steve can't demolish his old house, he bought this factory for his new home instead.
I know.... I'm quick

Ya...definately server space....for their website...expanding of iDisk/hosting their own website...ive noticed slowness in the itunes servers lately

Jamvan

Feb 27, 2006, 09:58 PM

I seriously laughed out loud at this! This place has been completely insane the past few days and your post hit me just right! Thank you! :D

What does the chinese writing mean? I think it could be important.

http://lavacat.com/diverse/datacenter.jpg

;)

P.S. This chinese writing isn't the same as the original! It looks like the two dots are shifted slightly to the left and down. It's obviously a fake! ;)

AidenShaw

Feb 27, 2006, 10:00 PM

but then you have to remember they're located uncomfortably close to the San Andreas. Not a lot of execs want to explain why they built their crown jewel on a fault line, so I'm sure MCI was happy to sell.
Newark is much closer to the Calaveras-Hayward Fault System than the San Andreas. (http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/FaultMaps/122-38.htm)

The Calaveras-Hayward has a probability quite a bit higher of having a huge earthquake than the San Andreas.

Plus, the Apple datacentre is in the alluvial "soup" near the tidal marshes of the bay - areas that are prone to liquefaction and much higher earthquake forces. (Note that in the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake most of the deaths and severe damage were in sedimentary fill areas several dozen miles away from the quake.)
_______________
Your post is correct - except for citing the San Andreas. We worry more about the Hayward, and people in the East Bay worry much more....

___________
ps: I work in a building in the marshy areas around the Bay. Our buildings have big diagonal steel bracing, our computer rooms have the racks bolted to the floor, and any computers on shelves are strapped or bolted to the shelves (and the shelves are bolted to the floors or walls). Buildings and equipment can easily (perhaps not cheaply, though) be built to withstand tremblors.

That's why a class 7 earthquake in California (e.g. 1989) causes the loss of life of a few dozen people - when a similar strength quake in Iran, Turkey, Pakistan or China can kill tens or hundreds of thousands.

GrannySmith_G5

Feb 27, 2006, 10:04 PM

Probably just storage for upcoming Wang Chung tracks.

macaddict06

Feb 27, 2006, 10:12 PM

At 107,000 sq feet for $45 Million dollars means they paid approximately $467.00 per sq foot for an N+1 redundant data center in prime real estate area of Newark / NY. Compared to what MCI paid to build this thing, that is a steal. Nice move Steve....

Uh, I think the map may be helpful. The place is in CA. I'm not sure what this means, but I can only imagine that IT realestate is held at a higher premium here than Newark NJ. Of course, prices are independent of use (except for zoning, which would play a role), but the Newark CA location is much closer. Plus, Steve could probably walk over there and play around with the toys he helped invent...somewhat. Steve, you r0x0r5!

nagromme

Feb 27, 2006, 10:13 PM

I have a crazy theory: what if Apple's buying this so they can move existing services from someplace else, which they will then sell or lease because they no longer need it? I know, not very exciting.

And re Tier 4... was the price good even if it were lower tier? Maybe Apple doesn't actually need Tier 4 at all.

What does the chinese writing mean? I think it could be important.

http://lavacat.com/diverse/datacenter.jpg

;)
I'm starting to long for the days of elevator photos :o

matticus008

Feb 27, 2006, 10:15 PM

Newark is much closer to the Calaveras-Hayward Fault System than the San Andreas. (http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/FaultMaps/122-38.htm)

The Calaveras-Hayward has a probability quite a bit higher of having a huge earthquake than the San Andreas.

Plus, the Apple datacentre is in the alluvial "soup" near the tidal marshes of the bay - areas that are prone to liquefaction and much higher earthquake forces.
_______________
Your post is correct - except for citing the San Andreas. We worry about the Hayward much more....

Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing this up :). Another thing to consider is that the entire Silicon Valley is nestled between California's two major fault lines, and yet there they are. Like residents (and recently, temporarily expatriated ones like myself), the companies there don't particularly mind where they are. This facility wasn't dumped because they got scared, it was probably dumped because MCI is too poor to afford it and therefore also too small to need it.

While untold millions almost certainly went into the building, a never-occupied 2001 datacenter isn't that long in the tooth, especially since it's empty and unoccupied. Any revisions and modifications are easy enough since the big costs of retrofitting have to do with moving the servers around and getting to the building services.

DeSnousa

Feb 27, 2006, 10:17 PM

Okay let me get this right, 1 Infinite Loop is where all the the countries iTMS content is being kept. That's amazing that communication data can be handled at 1 prime location. That must be like 10,000's off MB worth of bandwidth. I'm guessing through a 1 major line too?

Bosunsfate

Feb 27, 2006, 10:18 PM

Anyone checked if there is any stange mining operations going on? I heard that Zoron enterprises was making a come back.:)

macaddict06

Feb 27, 2006, 10:18 PM

I was pretty sure that EU has a central location, as does Australia...not sure on that though, thought I read it somewhere.

beachboy89

Feb 27, 2006, 10:19 PM

does anybody know where I can find a vid of the original ipod being released?

EricNau

Feb 27, 2006, 10:19 PM

This may seen like an obvious question, but, does Apple use all of it's own servers?

macaddict06

Feb 27, 2006, 10:21 PM

since I:
1) dont have specs on hand
2) dont know anything about spacing requirements
3) dont have a calculator
4) and tired as h3ll

Does any one know how many 42U XServes that would be? I suppose it would be important to throw a *few* RAIDS in there too....HUGE! aren't those things like 107 lbs a piece?

Maybe Steve is saying the hell with VTech, Ill build my own damn supercomputer...that would be sweet. But pointless for the company, *edit* unless they seek to rent it out or something. I'd buy some time...like 3 seconds for 1 million dollars, and then owe money forever *edit*.

Xtremehkr

Feb 27, 2006, 10:25 PM

I really hope they are finally going to do something to make .Mac worth $100 a year. I'm surprised I have stuck with it for this long already.

Still waiting on those exclusive .Mac widgets Steve.

nagromme

Feb 27, 2006, 10:27 PM

This may seen like an obvious question, but, does Apple use all of it's own servers?
In a company as big and far-flung as Apple, you'll probably find just about anything in use someplace.

But IIRC, all of the following run on Mac OS X Server (and often WebObjects) on Apple Xserve hardware:

* iTunes store
* Apple.com
* Apple store online
* .Mac

(.Mac is the one I'm least sure of. It may be running on a 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini.)

EvilDoc

Feb 27, 2006, 10:27 PM

Apple has proably just decide to get into telemarketing.. ;)

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 10:29 PM

_______________
Your post is correct - except for citing the San Andreas. We worry more about the Hayward, and people in the East Bay worry much more....

___________

Interesting, thx - didn't know about he Hayward line.

gekko513

Feb 27, 2006, 10:29 PM

Apple has proably just decide to get into telemarketing.. ;)
Or maybe it's for the Appleland theme park.

winmacguy

Feb 27, 2006, 10:30 PM

WTF does that mean?
That means a whole bunch of servers standing around ready to kick in if something does go wrong to the servers that are running for instance you might have a 20 server setup with 10 of those not actually in use at any given time.(Well that is my understanding anyway)

macaddict06

Feb 27, 2006, 10:34 PM

Bob Knob

Feb 27, 2006, 10:35 PM

There had been talk of Apple building its own "for rent" supercomputer-cluster in the past. But it has been a long time since I've heard anything even remotely suggesting that they are building one.

NEENAHBOY

Feb 27, 2006, 10:37 PM

(.Mac is the one I'm least sure of. It may be running on a 1.42 Ghz Mac Mini.)

So true :(

mymacluvsme

Feb 27, 2006, 10:43 PM

Ooooh...high levels of redundancy.
Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers. Developers, developers, developers, developers.

macaddict06

Feb 27, 2006, 10:47 PM

HAHAHAHAH Ballmer s0x0r5!
That was brilliant! Now where is the guy with the video links in his Sig?

beatle888

Feb 27, 2006, 10:49 PM

It says "this side", so that the satalite knows which side of the building (roof or basement) to photograph.:p

why do you spread misinformation? whats the point?

the chinese writing obviously was meant for the construction crew in an effort to aid them during assembling the building. nothing more.

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 10:58 PM

Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing this up :). Another thing to consider is that the entire Silicon Valley is nestled between California's two major fault lines, and yet there they are. Like residents (and recently, temporarily expatriated ones like myself), the companies there don't particularly mind where they are. This facility wasn't dumped because they got scared, it was probably dumped because MCI is too poor to afford it and therefore also too small to need it.

Silicon Valley companies may not care where they are incorporated, but they absolutely care where their business-critical systems reside. Sarbanes-Oxley has only increased the scrutiny placed on disaster planning, and companies (at least the more responsible ones) defnitely put a fair amount of weight on the potential for natural (and man-made, for that matter) disasters when searching for a new datacenter location. That's not to say MCI didn't dump it because they didn't need and/or couldn't afford it. I'm just saying that Tier IV space in Silicon Valley isn't without some serious disadvantages, and may have contributed to Apple getting a decent price on it.

For the record, the company I work for has spent the last 5 years moving its systems out of Silicon Valley for this very reason. Some of the main criteria we use when we shop for datacenter space are 1) not in California and 2) minimizing disaster potential. Of course there are others, like labor force, internet backbone, etc.

While untold millions almost certainly went into the building, a never-occupied 2001 datacenter isn't that long in the tooth, especially since it's empty and unoccupied. Any revisions and modifications are easy enough since the big costs of retrofitting have to do with moving the servers around and getting to the building services.

I beg to differ. The major costs of modernizing such a facility are to the cooling, power, and network infrastructre, and I wouldn't characterize them as "easy". It's all about the density. Increase the CPU density means increasing the power density. That means increasing the UPS capacity and adding more generators. That also means major retrofits to the cooling infrastructure which of course puts more strain on the power infrastructure. And network costs are huge. My point is $450 per sq. ft. sounds great when compared to $1200 for a new facility, but if you can only get 1/3 the CPU density, then it maybe isn't a good of a deal as it sounds.

xPismo

Feb 27, 2006, 11:01 PM

...
Maybe Steve is saying the hell with VTech, Ill build my own damn supercomputer...that would be sweet. ...

The perfect Stevenote demo computer. "Look how fast I can launch iTunes! See, no bounces! Wow. Like butter!"

sam10685

Feb 27, 2006, 11:08 PM

maybe apple is buying microsoft finally.

jbernie

Feb 27, 2006, 11:09 PM

I beg to differ. The major costs of modernizing such a facility are to the cooling, power, and network infrastructre, and I wouldn't characterize them as "easy".

But with the building being empty it does get easier. No need to move things around and all. Also as it was designed for a telcom company i am pretty sure they didn't skimp on the type of cable they used and all.

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 11:21 PM

Well, obviously, not the whole thing is used for storage. whats the storage redundancy on Tier IV? so take the total space potential and divide by that. I cant imagine it being overly huge for videos and stuff, but for records and things, they need lots of redundancy, especially if they are running for all of a year other than 24 minutes....dear god thats a lot!!! if only my Mac were up to that...or any desktop!

killer.

The Tier IV rating is for the facility, not the systems/storage it houses. It's merely a rating for the capabilites of the datacenter itself - how redundant are the cooling, power, etc. The standards are set by the Uptime Institute (http://www.upsite.com/TUIpages/whitepapers/tuitiers.html), but the idea is to rate the facility's fault tolerance, not the systems themselves. No point in having a five-9's computer cluster if it's sitting in a Tier I facility. :)

ozlow

Feb 27, 2006, 11:27 PM

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 11:32 PM

But with the building being empty it does get easier. No need to move things around and all. Also as it was designed for a telcom company i am pretty sure they didn't skimp on the type of cable they used and all.

Ah, I see, I may have misunderstood matticus008's comment about moving systems around. I thought he was referring to moving systems from their existing datacenters to the new one, rather than moving them around within a populated facility to get to the guts of it. Yes, certainly having an empty facility makes life much easier to do the kinds of retrofits necessary for a decent CPU density.

My point remains the same though - a 5-year old facility that was never occupied (and therefore may never really have been finished in terms of network cabling, power whips, etc.) will still cost a small fortune to upgrade to match a modern facility in terms of CPU density. For example, 5 years ago they may have only banked on the average system occupying 2 rack units. Today you can get the same horsepower in a single RU server. So twice as many servers per rack - huge difference in terms of power, cooling, and network density. Even if MCI didn't skimp on the type of network cable, they probably didn't lay enough of it.

matticus008

Feb 27, 2006, 11:37 PM

I beg to differ. The major costs of modernizing such a facility are to the cooling, power, and network infrastructre, and I wouldn't characterize them as "easy". It's all about the density. Increase the CPU density means increasing the power density.
It's not the Herculean task you make it out to be in an empty building. This is their job, and this facility is about as easy as it gets for datacenter refitting. It's like saying building a new bridge is easy. It's never easy, but on a relative scale, it's as good as it gets.

That means increasing the UPS capacity and adding more generators. That also means major retrofits to the cooling infrastructure which of course puts more strain on the power infrastructure. And network costs are huge. My point is $450 per sq. ft. sounds great when compared to $1200 for a new facility, but if you can only get 1/3 the CPU density, then it maybe isn't a good of a deal as it sounds.

You're right on the general scale, but this is all speculative. We don't know what kind of facility this is and we don't know what it's for, or what work needs to be done to prepare it. Apple does, and they're not exactly wasteful in their capital assets. The point I'm trying to make is that this isn't someone else's lemon, and it's not a 1972 mainframe building that needs to be gutted completely. It's only 5 years old, and while it might need some upgrades, this is a pretty choice find as far as new datacenters go.

All locations are in danger of some kind of natural disaster--pick your poision, I guess. Compared to Bangladesh (or whatever they're calling it these days), this is a fantastic location. They would have been foolish not to buy it given its proximity to the majority of Apple operations and their obvious need for a lot of new server space. Of course, all of this can probably be chalked up to some home region pride on my part :), so I'm not particularly unbiased.

Rangerflite

Feb 27, 2006, 11:41 PM

I am just guessing but the amount of room might be an interrogation center for X86 Hackers. I am assuming the normal .mac drip torture, also including the IPod with aftermarket belkin electrode to nipple clamp accessory would be in full use. I even heard speculation that they have a room where they will confine these hackers to pure dark rooms, windows 3.1 on a modified Tandy, and the repetive windows startup chime for upto 30 days.
I also heard from an inside source that dominatrix Mickey will be there to control any out of hand inmates with his mighty mouse touch sensative tail.

Inmates will also be expected to write the following 1,000 times:
"My karma check for today: There once was a user that whined his existing OS was so blind, he'd do better to pirate an OS that ran great but found his hardware declined. I did steal Mac OS! Really, I am way uncool.:)

Will_reed

Feb 27, 2006, 11:42 PM

The new Pixar render farm... I dunno

Zillatron

Feb 27, 2006, 11:52 PM

They would have been foolish not to buy it given its proximity to the majority of Apple operations and their obvious need for a lot of new server space.

your bias aside ;) thats a good point - seems to go hand in hand with all the office space they are leasing/buying.

There is some serious expansion going on.
Obviously the infrastructure they had 3 years ago isnt going to cope with the increase in staff/awareness/popularity/online service usage they they have had recently.

Z

beaster

Feb 27, 2006, 11:59 PM

It's not the Herculean task you make it out to be in an empty building. This is their job, and this facility is about as easy as it gets for datacenter refitting. It's like saying building a new bridge is easy. It's never easy, but on a relative scale, it's as good as it gets.

But that's just it - it's not a new bridge. They're fixing up an exisiting one. It's certainly easier since it's empty (no cars on it, to further the analogy). But I'm speaking from experience here - we bought a Tier IV facility of a similar size a few years back (which was only a few years old at the time), got a great deal, but still had to sink a crapload of cash into modernizing it. My whole point with my OP is that it may not be as good a deal as it was made it out to being.

You're right on the general scale, but this is all speculative. We don't know what kind of facility this is and we don't know what it's for, or what work needs to be done to prepare it. Apple does, and they're not exactly wasteful in their capital assets. The point I'm trying to make is that this isn't someone else's lemon, and it's not a 1972 mainframe building that needs to be gutted completely. It's only 5 years old, and while it might need some upgrades, this is a pretty choice find as far as new datacenters go.

I'd agree that it's unlikely a lemon, and this is all speculative (but hey, they don't call it MacRumors for nothing :) ). As for being a choice find - that too is speculative. Having shopped for a Tier IV facility of a similar size recently, there are many options out there, including building your own, and the economics aren't that far off.

All locations are in danger of some kind of natural disaster--pick your poision, I guess. Compared to Bangladesh (or whatever they're calling it these days), this is a fantastic location. They would have been foolish not to buy it given its proximity to the majority of Apple operations and their obvious need for a lot of new server space. Of course, all of this can probably be chalked up to some home region pride on my part :), so I'm not particularly unbiased.

Yes, but some natural disasters are far more devastating (and likely) than others. The desert Southwest, for example, is pretty minimal in terms of natural disasters that could impact such a facility. Rocky Mountain west isn't too far behind (blizzards are no fun, but they don't carry much risk for a Tier III or IV facility other than preventing people from getting to work). Both regions are much safer than the Bay Area. I'm just saying that other Silicon Valley companies would consider themselves foolish if they continued to put all their eggs in that particular basket. Now maybe Apple owns a bunch of space far from California dangers, and they have a great DR plan in place. If so, great. I sure hope so.

matticus008

Feb 28, 2006, 12:26 AM

I'd agree that it's unlikely a lemon, and this is all speculative (but hey, they don't call it MacRumors for nothing :) ). As for being a choice find - that too is speculative. Having shopped for a Tier IV facility of a similar size recently, there are many options out there, including building your own, and the economics aren't that far off.
I agree completely. The major difference (and I think likely the decisive one) is that a preexisting building can be readied in a fraction of the time of a new building, even if the cost savings aren't massive. With a company like Apple that likes to control the spin and squeeze maximum hype out of the last minute, buying this datacenter will get them into whatever they're planning several weeks or even months earlier, which might be a bigger deal than saving even just $10-15 million over a brand-new facility.

aussie_geek

Feb 28, 2006, 12:39 AM

iTMS full length high def or dvd quality movie service, maybe rentable movies for $3.99 for three days or something?

Telstra here in Australia has just set up a service exactly as you described!!

Bigpond movies (http://www.bigpondmovies.com/)

aussie_geek

aswitcher

Feb 28, 2006, 12:56 AM

Telstra here in Australia has just set up a service exactly as you described!!

Bigpond movies (http://www.bigpondmovies.com/)

aussie_geek

Yeah, but I dont think the DRM setup alows it to work with a Mac????

Marlon_JBT

Feb 28, 2006, 12:58 AM

Why does the building look so small? Is it a two story or one story building?

iMeowbot

Feb 28, 2006, 01:02 AM

It would be nice if it tied in with some super enhancement of the store somehow but I don't imagine that they could get all the hardware up to speed by weeks end.
Even if they could, it takes ages to get connectivity, even if there are idle lines already in place. And you'll have your telecom parter(s) in there eight or nine times after installation, since it never works the first time :p

DeSnousa

Feb 28, 2006, 01:23 AM

Yeah, but I dont think the DRM setup alows it to work with a Mac????

Yeah that's correct, because 1) Windows DRM is not compatible on Mac's and also it uses WMP10 :rolleyes:

The quality they use is higher than 320 by 240.

kntgsp

Feb 28, 2006, 04:10 AM

Maybe they'll build SkyNet.

"NeuroNet Processah. A learning computah"

Gotta love Ahnold.

demallien

Feb 28, 2006, 05:34 AM

This isn't a big deal, really. iTunes, .Mac, Movie Trailers, The Apple Store, they all require data center space, quite a bit of it actually.

Actually, weren't there a few patents discovered a few months back that talked about Apple using a caching system for iTunes video purchases? To me it's obvious that this data centre is the implementation of the patent. Which in turn would make me think that today's announcement is going to be about new video products...

Sunrunner

Feb 28, 2006, 07:39 AM

So do you think that Apple will license OS X Server to itself to run on the generic hardware for this facility?

Or will they replace the servers with Apple hardware?

Considering the fact that this facility was built and fitted out in 2001, The only place any actual computer hardware pre-existing in that facility would be going these days is the dumpster.

ickies

Feb 28, 2006, 10:00 AM

AidenShaw

Feb 28, 2006, 10:12 AM

Considering the fact that this facility was built and fitted out in 2001, The only place any actual computer hardware pre-existing in that facility would be going these days is the dumpster.
The computer hardware that controls power, HVAC and security systems is probably OK. ;)

AidenShaw

Feb 28, 2006, 10:19 AM

"Data centers generally house computing, data-storage and networking equipment assisting in Web-based services and transactions." - SJ Business Journal

This obviously points to iTMS, which is only going to grow in content and traffic....

Also, wasn't there an Apple patent last month or so about controlling your home from a portable device and streaming content from your home computer to a portable device, or some such application?
Not obvious, unless Apple are also buying additional centers across the country.

It's far too expensive to pump all that data through cross-country (and cross-ocean) pipes from a single data center - you want multiple centers sharing the load (and offering site redundancy and disaster tolerance).

Besides, any connection with any product to be announced this morning is difficult to imagine. It can take months to bring the new center online (and Apple would probably wait for Intel XServes - who would want to buy a PPC Apple right now?).

adthrawn

Feb 28, 2006, 10:45 AM

Not obvious, unless Apple are also buying additional centers across the country.

It's far too expensive to pump all that data through cross-country (and cross-ocean) pipes from a single data center - you want multiple centers sharing the load (and offering site redundancy and disaster tolerance).

Though, it's quite common to have a primary facility (core), and then points of presence on the edge of major carrier networks. Basically, doing what Akamai do which is content delivery.

We work in a similar way for our corporate network - we have our own primary centre, and then facilities located within public data-centres and in some cases, within our customer's data centres.

Because it's distributed, you get the wonderful benefit of redundancy (essentially, the way edge caching normally occurs, you have a good backup distributed around the edge of the network).

Besides, any connection with any product to be announced this morning is difficult to imagine. It can take months to bring the new center online (and Apple would probably wait for Intel XServes - who would want to buy a PPC Apple right now?).

Don't forget, Apple is ahead in the design cycle - they'll already be seeding internally Intel based hardware - I wouldn't be surprised if they have the next 12 months worth of hardware in seed already. Going by our experience, hardware and software spends more time in Alpha and Beta than development!!

Anyway, that's going off the point. Think back to the construction of the Big Mac supercomputer. Big customer, big order, Apple manufactured a faster configuration for them, 6 months prior to the update was released publicly, to close the contract. We where on the tail end of the period, and ended up waiting for the update prior to purchasing 6 of them ourselves. We have around 25-30 Xserves at any one time, and therefore have nowhere near the buying power they had.

So, if Apple was working an internal project - as with conventional business, they become as internal customer, and in this case, have incredible leverage over the design/development team. Don't think for one minute that Apple gets it's internal hardware for free - they only make a small margin after parts and manufacturing, which even internally, has to be recouped. It's all about ROI and TCO. So, Apple IT, or whatever the department is, now becomes a very big customer, and gets to call the shots. So, if they're putting a system together, they'll be using the next generation, and most likely at the quantities they're buying, at an even higher custom manufactured spec. They're demand could even justify a special model and/or a production line dedicated to manufacture solely for the project duration!

adthrawn

Feb 28, 2006, 11:01 AM

"Data centers generally house computing, data-storage and networking equipment assisting in Web-based services and transactions." - SJ Business Journal

This obviously points to iTMS, which is only going to grow in content and traffic.

HOWEVER, the article only mentions similar data centers being built/bought by other telecom companies, like Sprint Nextel and Verizon. I have Sprint for my cell and Verizon for my home/DSL, and I'm not aware of ANY significant web-based services they offer. So is this data center also equipped for cellular network support, is this part of the 'Mobile Me' thing?

The description was quite naive, stating "assisting in Web-based services and transactions".

Data Centres, simple put, are a series of big rooms that are:
- environmentally protected and maintained (air conditioning, humidity control, dust extraction etc)
- power protected (multiple incoming supplies, battery backup/UPS, backup generators etc)
- physically secured (walls normally metal shielded, no glass, intense inbound and outbound access security, CCTV etc)
- racked (normally, have racks for mounting equipment)
- cable routing (cable baskets, false floors etc - lots of ingress points from external ducting, and room-to-room)
- fire protection (gas, liquid dump, ducting foam etc)

You then have different types of centres, normally dictated by their geographic location. Some are on the top of fibre exchanges (or rather, the fibre exchanges are inside the centre), some are in offices, some on campus' etc. Those in offices, or on campus' are normally private usage, and will normally house a company's networking, computing and data storage. Those ontop of fibre exchanges are normally more towards communications, and inter-networking.

Sprint and Verizon are carriers, and house their network in data centres. Most data centres sell off space/capacity to carriers and service-providers to locate fragments of their network - it's likely MCI would only have used a small percentage of the facility, and leased the rest out.

To use a shell (which has power and protection), you need to install racks, power to rack distribution (PDU's from taps under the floor), cabling between your equipment, cabling from external sources (Fibre etc) and of course, install your equipment.

...

Eniregnat

Feb 28, 2006, 01:15 PM

WTF does that mean? RE: Tier IV(4)

Hey this is likely not just for the bennifit of Apple's costomers.

I work for an organization that requires a high-level of data security, not because the majority of the data is sensitive, but because the data is valuable- i.e. recordings. Our data centers (and likely Apple has more than one) are really data stores need to be very redundant, but I don't think we even qualify as a Tier I(1). All this talk about physical security is stupid and reminds me of Shadow Run (http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/). My supposition is that it may be to eventually provide for less expensive .Mac and digital downloads, but also to provide a new primary hub for Apples QT proxy servers.

The UpTime Institute, which I thought was an NPO, designed the Tier designation for designation for Data Centers, as well as sub delineating it for internal electrical lay out, cooling, etc...

Original Article (http://www.upsite.com/TUIpages/whitepapers/tuitiers.html)
Re: Tier IV Data Center Infrastructure
Fault Tolerant
Tier IV provides site infrastructure capacity and capability to permit any planned activity without disruption to the critical load. ...

(earlier in the same article)
[B]Tier IV[B] is composed of multiple active power and cooling distribution paths, has redundant components, and is fault tolerant, providing 99.995% availability.

[http://www.ntg.com/docs/NTG_Whitepaper.pdf] Original Article
“Man-trap” areas at all entrances to all data center areas
Non water-based FM-200 fire suppression system
Fully-redundant and zoned air handling systems
...750 tons of cooling...
Three one-megawatt dedicated diesel generators with over three days of onsite fuel...

Note: As of now, there is no greater Tier designation than IV(4). 100% uptime is technically not possible, due to the potential for some types of catastrophes like fires, when for safety, everything must be shut down with out regard to kicking in off site redundancy. Intra-redundancy of tasks, connections, etc. is not part of the Tier rating.

Note: The Level designation has also been used, and I can't find a reference to it. APC also has White Papers on Tier and Level grades for Data Centers. Level designation is (to my memory) relative to size, connectivity, through put and external redundancy.

See
White Paper on Tier I(1) through Tier IV(4) grades (http://www.upsite.com/TUIpages/whitepapers/tuitiers.html) Up Time Institute
Data Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_center) at Wikipedia
A Web Forum on Data Centers (http://www.datacentertalk.com/) Like MacRumors, but for uber nerds.
APC Mobile Tier 4 (http://www.apcc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=318)When you absolutely positively have to be Tier IV (http://www.processor.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles/P2650/36p50/36p50.asp&guid=) overnight!
White Paper on Tier IV(4) (http://www.ntg.com/docs/NTG_Whitepaper.pdf)Network Technology Group
Article on Apple's Tier IV(4) (http://www.bizjournals.com/industries/high_tech/computers/2006/02/27/sanjose_story5.html) BizJournal
Apple's Other Tier IV(4) center (http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/ebusiness/story/0,10801,96135,00.html)Computer World 2004.

I still think that this is this month's (Feb) big story.

macaddict06

Feb 28, 2006, 07:34 PM

750 tons of cooling? does that include 1200 tons of chillers?
This is absolutely amazing. I would love to tour it, although all you would see is rows of servers and cables...still would be sweet, and entirely out of my reach :(. Perhaps this is where The Steve will test his iDogs, the autonomous, souless guard dogs, to sick on OSX86, and Steve Ballmer. but then again, Steve Ballmer is an automous, souless...thing. http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg

Probie

Feb 28, 2006, 07:51 PM

Here is a link to toe closeupishs that I took today.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthall/

CHess

Mar 1, 2006, 02:50 AM

It was very subtle, but as soon as the new Intel Mini was announced, there was a picture of the mini and some screen shots of the cool things you could do. Take a look at the current Man Mini banner:

http://www.apple.com/macmini/

Right now, the screenshot on the very right end has the heading "Movie Trailers". Did anyone else notice that this same screenshot was different this morning? It was very similar, but had an iMovie icon instead, but didn't say Movie Trailers. It was just a black screen with the same kind of Movie ad images, but they were also images of different movies. I SWEAR IT!

Why would Apple change the image unless it was giving away too much information about an upcoming offering???

I think it's obvious that the data center will be needed to support additional servers for ITMS, but also because Apple is going to start offering a movie download service and judging by the apparent slip and quick fix today, I think it's going to happen very soon! :D

aswitcher

Mar 1, 2006, 02:56 AM

CHess

Mar 1, 2006, 02:59 AM

Nicely spotted. Fortunetly I have it here
?

That's the picture! Yay, I'm not crazy!!! :)

aswitcher

Mar 1, 2006, 03:04 AM

That's the picture! Yay, I'm not crazy!!! :)

So, now you have it, what does this mean?

matticus008

Mar 1, 2006, 03:11 AM

So, now you have it, what does this mean?
I don't know, but for some reason all I can think right now is when Darth Vader says, "I have you now!" and then they escape and then Vader has no one.

iMeowbot

Mar 1, 2006, 04:28 AM

Why would Apple change the image unless it was giving away too much information about an upcoming offering???
I'm thinking that they may have changed the title in the picture to "Movie Trailers" just because it makes the screen's function a little more obvious without the context you would get from really using Front Row.
Also some weird little black and white "box" to the right of the original...
That little box shows the MPAA rating in real Front Row.
Now, not having front row I dont know, but does it play from iPhot or iMovie for previews?
It doesn't start up any apps for those, it just relies on QuickTime.

aswitcher

Mar 1, 2006, 04:42 AM

I'm thinking that they may have changed the title in the picture to "Movie Trailers" just because it makes the screen's function a little more obvious without the context you would get from really using Front Row.

That little box shows the MPAA rating in real Front Row.

It doesn't start up any apps for those, it just relies on QuickTime.

So, no leaks then? Mmm. I guess so but I still wonder why the changes are so large at the last minute.

H2Hummer

Mar 1, 2006, 08:47 AM

There will be a major project underway to install all new UPS systems, generators, distribtuion, and incoming power. Nothing existing will be used. Eventually about 14 MW of UPS power capacity without taking into account redundancy. Probably end up with about 10 MW of UPS power capacity with redundancy. Major cooling upgrade installation will also take place. Lots of money to still be spent on this place. Most likely they will end up with about 70K sq. ft. to 80K sq. ft. of data center. This will end up being about 125 to 145 watts/sq. ft. with redundancy. I know.

ScottB

Mar 1, 2006, 09:42 AM

It's probably going to be used for ALL of their internet services. They probably need it to sell iTunes music and videos, .Mac and everything else they provide.

AidenShaw

Mar 1, 2006, 09:42 AM

This will end up being about 125 to 145 watts/sq. ft. with redundancy. I know.
They must be confident in Intel's power roadmap then, or the infrastructure will be set up to add power/cooling easily.

That's not a lot of spare capacity.

A rack of dual-core Xeons or Opterons is about 3000 watts/sq.ft. - so they'll need very wide aisles between the racks to get by with 140 w/ft^2.

beaster

Mar 1, 2006, 10:12 AM

They must be confident in Intel's power roadmap then, or the infrastructure will be set up to add power/cooling easily.

That's not a lot of spare capacity.

A rack of dual-core Xeons or Opterons is about 3000 watts/sq.ft. - so they'll need very wide aisles between the racks to get by with 140 w/ft^2.

120-150 Watts/sq.ft. is actually quite good in the industry today. I'd bet most datacenters operating today are below 100 W/sq.ft. We have a DC that can support 170 W/sq.ft. and it took a fair bit of engineering. When datacenter facilities guys quote Watts/sq. ft., they're talking about the overall density of the raised floor, not just the space a given rack occupies. You hit 200 Watts/sq. ft. in a Tier IV facility, you're practically a magician.

AidenShaw

Mar 1, 2006, 10:32 AM

120-150 Watts/sq.ft. is actually quite good in the industry today. I'd bet most datacenters operating today are below 100 W/sq.ft. We have a DC that can support 170 W/sq.ft. and it took a fair bit of engineering. When datacenter facilities guys quote Watts/sq. ft., they're talking about the overall density of the raised floor, not just the space a given rack occupies. You hit 200 Watts/sq. ft. in a Tier IV facility, you're practically a magician.
i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/html/itp/34146A_PC_WP.pdf

"However, in today’s data center environments, the highestdensity racks can exceed 200 watts per square foot, so designers are specifying new data centers to handle heat loads of 350 and even 500 watts per square foot."

beaster

Mar 1, 2006, 11:03 AM

i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/html/itp/34146A_PC_WP.pdf

"However, in today’s data center environments, the highestdensity racks can exceed 200 watts per square foot, so designers are specifying new data centers to handle heat loads of 350 and even 500 watts per square foot."

I'm not sure if you're trying to rebutt my statement with that article, or support me, but in the very next paragraph, it says:

While typical racks installed in data centers just two years ago might have consumed two kilowatts and emitted 40 watts of heat per square foot, new, high-density racks will consume 10,15,or even 25KW per rack and may dissipate as much as 500 watts per squarefoot by the end of the decade.

I have no doubt that datacenter engineers are attempting to design for 350+ w/sq.ft. for the future. But I stand by my statement that 200 w/sq.ft. is basically the state of the art today in a Tier IV facility. Maybe in very small facilities - say, 2,000 sq. ft. - you'll find higher densities today.

Now some engineers may cheat and not count wall-to-wall square footage to make their densities look better. For example, these guys (http://www.webmasters.com/?page=data_center.htm) claim 900 watts/sq.ft., but I guarantee you they're not going wall-to-wall to get that number (just look at their cooling and generator #'s - obviously they're not filling 82,000 sq.ft. at 900 watts/sq.ft.). Here's (http://www.datacenterjournal.com/News/Article.asp?article_id=315) a more honest assessment of where most datacenters are today and are going in the future. Anyway, with an honest calculation - 200+ w/sq.ft. in a Tier IV of any reasonable size today - that's fantastic.

AidenShaw

Mar 1, 2006, 11:47 AM

I'm not sure if you're trying to rebutt my statement with that article, or support me...
Both ;)

Note that my original comment said that designing for expansion is also a reasonable alternative.

My building was built with roof supports (and mounting pads), electrical and chilling water pipes pre-installed for additional AC units to be added if needed. (At this point, one additional 850 ton unit has been added when the capacity was needed - a quick and simple job that needed a helicopter to drop the unit, but no other work inside the building.)

beaster

Mar 1, 2006, 01:41 PM

Both ;)

Note that my original comment said that designing for expansion is also a reasonable alternative.

OK, I may have misunderstood your point then - it looked to me like you were saying that Apple was under-engineering by a factor of 20. If you were saying that 120-150 watts/sq. ft. might not be enough density for a datacenter full of 15-20 kW racks a few years down the road, OK, I'd agree. But realistically, you don't fill 100,000 sq. ft. with purely blade racks. In a facility this size, there's always a hodgepodge of big iron, networking gear, storage racks, tape silos, and random legacy crap that is much lower density and drags down the overall number for the datacenter.

My building was built with roof supports (and mounting pads), electrical and chilling water pipes pre-installed for additional AC units to be added if needed. (At this point, one additional 850 ton unit has been added when the capacity was needed - a quick and simple job that needed a helicopter to drop the unit, but no other work inside the building.)

Sure, having the ability to add on chillers, generators, etc. without major retrofitting is ideal. (Our design went from three 2 megawatt generators to seven over a period of 3 years as we grew to our full capacity.) It's one thing to design a theoretical capacity for greater than 200 watts/sq. ft., but it's an entirely different matter to actually achieve it with real systems on the floor in a big Tier IV facility. I hear datacenter guys at AFCOM meetings talking about how they could push 300 watts/sq. ft. But never seen any of them do it (who knows, maybe someone is - I'd put my money on Google). Inevitably bottlenecks appear - if not power, then cooling; if not cooling, then network; if not network, then tape backup or storage capacity; if not any of that, then an executive management team that won't write the check.

Anyway, my point is that Apple designing for 120-150 watts/sq.ft. may not be cutting edge, but it's reasonable for a facility like that.

iMeowbot

Mar 1, 2006, 05:12 PM

So, no leaks then? Mmm. I guess so but I still wonder why the changes are so large at the last minute.
It's pretty well documented that Jobs can be somewhat capricious about things like this. That's where his reputation as a micromanager comes in. I wouldn't be too surprised if the change only means that he saw the older version and wasn't happy about the missing clarity.

labrats5

Mar 1, 2006, 05:31 PM

I'm betting that this is the new iprison.

Macnoviz

Mar 2, 2006, 08:24 AM

I'm very pleased to hear Apple has acquired more capacity, I really hope they will upgrade .Mac with more online space, and when we look what happened to Google Page Creator, Apple should definitly make sure they can still support everything.
I hope that Movie downloads will be released on april 1, and that will definitly require some extra space, too

CHess

Mar 2, 2006, 12:52 PM

It's pretty well documented that Jobs can be somewhat capricious about things like this. That's where his reputation as a micromanager comes in. I wouldn't be too surprised if the change only means that he saw the older version and wasn't happy about the missing clarity.

Okay, this is weird. I think Apple is just messing with us. Now the original Intel Mac Mini banner is back... :confused:

AidenShaw

Mar 3, 2006, 09:49 AM

OK, I may have misunderstood your point then - it looked to me like you were saying that Apple was under-engineering by a factor of 20.
I mentioned the need for "wide aisles" - so I was aware that 3000 watts/ft^2 for the six square feet under a rack doesn't mean 3KW/ft^2 for a room that's nearly a hectare.

Anyway, my point is that Apple designing for 120-150 watts/sq.ft. may not be cutting edge, but it's reasonable for a facility like that.
It's reasonable to start with that capacity, but it would be foolish not to have a plan to get to 200 to 300 watts/ft^2 without major disruption and expense. Spend a little extra now for big savings later.

That's my point, not that starting with 125 is short-sighted.

rt_brained

Nov 16, 2006, 03:12 AM