Was MacRumors Down? [Archive]

G4scott

Jan 25, 2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
While I'd love to lie this at M$'s feet - they did, aparently, put out a patch 6 months to a year ago (depending on which report you read) and enough idiot MCSE's didn't bother to install it! :rolleyes:

The problem can be traced back to m$. Even though they released a patch for it, many IT people are reluctant to install even security patches because of the problems they can cause with their servers. It's given software might have bugs, but m$ should check and double-check, and even triple-check to make sure that their patches work, and don't do more bad than good. It's because of previous buggy patches from m$ that IT guys are hesitant to install these things...

MacCoaster

Jan 25, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
While I'd love to lie this at M$'s feet - they did, aparently, put out a patch 6 months to a year ago (depending on which report you read) and enough idiot MCSE's didn't bother to install it! :rolleyes:
What's worse. Those people put those SQL Servers up available over the internet. SQL Servers are meant to be a BACK END server. An optimal SQL Server configuration would be:

Internet -> Firewall -> LAN -> Firewall -> SQL Server

I was up all night and was shocked Apple Store was affected by this. Their site was down for the majority of the night. Makes me wonder if they are using Microsoft SQL Servers. :eek:

I personally use Microsoft SQL Server, because it IS the best bang for the buck enterprise solution. Luckily, I wasn't affected one bit by the attacks.

This is similar to the Code Red attacks. Patches were available months before the attacks, yet there are idiot admins.

janey

Jan 25, 2003, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
or some korens?

Not a nice thing to say...

Koreans happen to have the greatest percentage of internet users worldwide but look, America and many other countries have a leser amount of hackers but they're more malicious.

And I'm not all korean but i find this very offensive.

And it was a worm :(

Sedulous

Jan 25, 2003, 05:47 PM

I was up all night and was shocked Apple Store was affected by this.

I believe that this bug slowed internet traffic in general. If a site is already busy, the extra draw from the bug might make a site inconsistantly available.

Macmaniac

Jan 25, 2003, 05:51 PM

Maybe someone with deep pockets should give arn $25000 for a few XServes:)

MacCoaster

Jan 25, 2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Sedulous
I was up all night and was shocked Apple Store was affected by this.

I believe that this bug slowed internet traffic in general. If a site is already busy, the extra draw from the bug might make a site inconsistantly available.
That's not a good thing. I'm sure that Microsoft.com took as much abuse, if not MUCH more, yet it was up the entire night and it did not receive any performance hit. Engineering the network for speed and response is important. Rejecting traffic for unnecessary ports are important; apparently, Apple did not do this.

It may be very well that Apple is using Microsoft SQL Server, because if the worm hit inside the corporate walls, it runs amok amongst its own network, thus creating DDoS.

That sucked bad for Apple. Seeping below 99.97% uptime. Three nines... not so good.

Dont Hurt Me

Jan 25, 2003, 06:11 PM

Hey ARN you think that worm would have hit the xserve running applestuff! Lets hope not ! and to just mention this, a freind of mine just got a hp with 2.4 intel for a grand and let me tell you that thing looked and was cheap! The plastic is just a step up from what my model airplanes where made! He's still figuring it out!

ktlx

Jan 25, 2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by übergeek
Koreans happen to have the greatest percentage of internet users worldwide but look, America and many other countries have a leser amount of hackers but they're more malicious.

I don't know if the original person meant it or not but the worm was reported to have been a disaster to the Koreans. As hard hit as US and Europe were, most of the US and European sites functioned normally. However, according to reports, Korea was devastated. There were some claims that the three largest providers in South Korea were basically down.

Since Korea was especially hard hit and seemed to be the source, it does not seem too large of a leap to think that a Korean probably unleashed it. I don't know why someone outside of Korea would specifically target South Korea when there are so many insecure sites in every region of the world.

MacCoaster

Jan 25, 2003, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Hey ARN you think that worm would have hit the xserve running applestuff! Lets hope not ! and to just mention this, a freind of mine just got a hp with 2.4 intel for a grand and let me tell you that thing looked and was cheap! The plastic is just a step up from what my model airplanes where made! He's still figuring it out!
How is that note of your friend getting a HP related to the subject?

BTW, deviating from the subject, Apple had design flaws on the TiBooks--they peel, they are fragile, etc. So what? Good thing they're moving to Aluminum alloy, which should stronger and no paint needed.

arn

Jan 25, 2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Macmaniac
Maybe someone with deep pockets should give arn $25000 for a few XServes:)

it wouldn't have made a difference... my entire provider was offline. ALL boxes hosted there were offline.

arn

ktlx

Jan 25, 2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

That's not a good thing. I'm sure that Microsoft.com took as much abuse, if not MUCH more, yet it was up the entire night and it did not receive any performance hit. Engineering the network for speed and response is important. Rejecting traffic for unnecessary ports are important; apparently, Apple did not do this.

Maybe, maybe not. It could have been lots of things. Since Microsoft.com and Apple.com get their network connectivity from different providers, Apple.com's ISP may have been hit and been off the air. I read that in some places the traffic was so high the Cisco routers were tanking and not the servers.

It is quite possible that Apple.com was completely untouched but their upstream provider was dead.

cubist

Jan 25, 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster
I personally use Microsoft SQL Server, because it IS the best bang for the buck enterprise solution. Luckily, I wasn't affected one bit by the attacks.

Try PostgreSQL. :cool:

MacRumors should dogfood and run on Mac OS X... unless it's Linux is a saffron canine.

melchior

Jan 25, 2003, 06:43 PM

there are better mac linux distro's than YD and most are free while YD is not

onemoof

Jan 25, 2003, 06:45 PM

It really sucked last night when I couldn't access anything online. I needed to ship some international packages this morning but couldn't access USPS to figure the shipping rate. I'm not happy : (.

Sonofhaig

Jan 25, 2003, 06:49 PM

Great to see you back up again......

The press really downplayed the seriousness of this virus.
This, I'm betting had a very large effect worldwide!

Another reason everything should be Apple based!

krossfyter

Jan 25, 2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by übergeek

Not a nice thing to say...

Koreans happen to have the greatest percentage of internet users worldwide but look, America and many other countries have a leser amount of hackers but they're more malicious.

And I'm not all korean but i find this very offensive.

And it was a worm :(

well sorry but i was joking.

not to be taken seriously. i just put that there because of the fact that korea was hit the hardest.

could of been anyone! hacking knows no gender nor race. dang... must people always be pc around here. its a joke... meaning im messing around. hell for all i care it could have been my own race... hispanics... Lord knows we do stupid ***** just like anyone else... the only difference is that we are inspired by frijoles. but alas... it probably was neither of the groups i mentioned. the truth is that it probably was an american kid.

MacCoaster

Jan 25, 2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by cubist
Try PostgreSQL. :cool:

MacRumors should dogfood and run on Mac OS X... unless it's Linux is a saffron canine.
I run PostreSQL as well. It is the BEST open source DB software. Puts MySQL to shame. I love PostreSQL.

However, it is extremely kludgy to set up and does not offer as many tools as Oracle and Microsoft SQL Server do. Microsoft SQL Server also clusters way easier and more efficient. [see http://www.tpc.org/ for performance of high end database servers and notice Microsoft SQL Server is the fastest in most and you do not see a single instance of MySQL nor PostreSQL]

I have all my PHP stuff using db from PostreSQL and my ASP.NET stuff using Microsoft SQL Server. You'll never see me switching to J2EE/JSP :p -- such a nasty attempt to bring Java to generate dynamic pages, IMO and in my experience.

Linux is just fine for hosting. It doesn't mean that MacRumors is a heretic by not running Mac OS X. Mac OS X servers ARE expensive, you know.

jamilecrire

Jan 25, 2003, 07:10 PM

Even Mac heads know linux is better! J/K.

Seriously though with apache and php available for OS X why not run a Mac-centric site on a Mac OS?

jamilecrire

Jan 25, 2003, 07:24 PM

Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a mod_log_bytes/0.3 mod_bwlimited/1.0 PHP/4.2.2 FrontPage/5.0.2.2510 mod_ssl/2.8.9 OpenSSL/0.9.6b

(from netcraft.com) you should make sure your OpenSSL isn't vunerable. I know there is a hole in anything before 0.9.6g and 0.9.7 is out now.

Great site btw... it's truly turned me into a machead (lol, i'm on my winblows box right now... damn tv tuner card)

Independence

Jan 25, 2003, 07:25 PM

i was wondering why all the forums i frequently go to were down...

melchior

Jan 25, 2003, 07:27 PM

re: why not run a Mac-centric site on a Mac OS?

*gets ready to run*

performance and cost...

*running*

i don't know what hardware macrumors runs on now but i often get server busy messages

~/indigo

Jan 25, 2003, 07:28 PM

I am getting annoyed with all these people claiming that MSSQL is the best. I have NEVER seen benchmarks to back this up. The best I have seen are ones that claim it isn't the worst thing out there (ironically, Access always wins that title).

I did a quick search for comparisons including MySQL (the one I use). Here is the first hit I found:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,293,00.asp

Truthfully this is comparing with a MySQL Max build but that will be mainstream before to long and is available now (and I have found it very good so far).

Just thought you guys might be interested,
Jeff.

arn

Jan 25, 2003, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by jamilecrire
Even Mac heads know linux is better! J/K.

Seriously though with apache and php available for OS X why not run a Mac-centric site on a Mac OS?

Because it's hard to find a Mac-based dedicated service provider that's competitive.

It's not like I run MacRumors out of my basement. :)

arn

Knox

Jan 25, 2003, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by jamilecrire
Even Mac heads know linux is better! J/K.

Seriously though with apache and php available for OS X why not run a Mac-centric site on a Mac OS?

If you're collocating your own hardware then it's easier to make that choice, but if you lease hardware the majority of providers will be based around linux, unix or windows. Larger choice of provider, competition and probably lower prices.

Also, although i use OS X all the time for desktop use i wouldn't be confident enough to use it as a server, where i know linux far better. Fact that it's a Mac-centric site shouldn't affect what's used to host it imho. Best tools for the job and all that :)

Wash!!

Jan 25, 2003, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by arn

Because it's hard to find a Mac-based dedicated service provider that's competitive.

It's not like I run MacRumors out of my basement. :)

arn

well put arn :D.
I'm just glad you're not running winblows.

Billicus

Jan 25, 2003, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
Great to see you back up again......

The press really downplayed the seriousness of this virus.
This, I'm betting had a very large effect worldwide!

Another reason everything should be Apple based!

Sure, that would be great. But, if everything was Mac-based, there would be a lot more Macintosh viruses.

melchior

Jan 25, 2003, 08:00 PM

just out of curiosity, has anyone actually had a virus on their mac?

was in in os9 or osx?
was it malicious?

Billicus

Jan 25, 2003, 08:05 PM

I've never experienced a virus on a Mac. Of all the Macs at my school, none have ever had viruses. However, we just got a few PC's from the Rockwell Collins reuse of PC's center (or something like that) and of the PC's we got, most currently have viruses. It's a pretty bad situation.

jamilecrire

Jan 25, 2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by arn

Because it's hard to find a Mac-based dedicated service provider that's competitive.

It's not like I run MacRumors out of my basement. :)

arn

Sounds like you found a new line of work. Apple based hosting service. Hell I'd use it. Just think, you could write off the redundant OC-3s running to your basement. lol. Just like that new Hummer you'd need to move the equipment around town!!! (I'm on one of my linux servers now... just testing)

Hemingray

Jan 25, 2003, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by melchior
just out of curiosity, has anyone actually had a virus on their mac?

was in in os9 or osx?
was it malicious?

I found a strain of CDEF on a diskette once in 1997... :rolleyes:

King Cobra

Jan 25, 2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by melchior
just out of curiosity, has anyone actually had a virus on their mac?

was in in os9 or osx?
was it malicious?

My father did with his newly purchased iMac G3 with OS 9 running (and OS X stored on as well). He had to call the place he got the iMac from www.smalldog.com to boot up the computer and solve the problem.

shadowfax

Jan 25, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter

could of been anyone! hacking knows no gender nor race. dang... must people always be pc around here? its a joke... meaning im messing around. hell for all i care it could have been my own race... hispanics... Lord knows we do stupid ***** just like anyone else... the only difference is that we are inspired by frijoles. but alas... it probably was neither of the groups i mentioned. the truth is that it probably was an american kid.

no pun intended?

AssassinOfGates

Jan 25, 2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by melchior
just out of curiosity, has anyone actually had a virus on their mac?

was in in os9 or osx?
was it malicious?

Never since my first Mac LC

shadowfax

Jan 25, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by melchior
just out of curiosity, has anyone actually had a virus on their mac?

was in in os9 or osx?
was it malicious?

I had a virus on OS X... it was a nasty cold for almost a week. i sneezed a lot, and my nose was stuffy. it was pretty darned malicious

melchior

Jan 25, 2003, 09:07 PM

shadowfax, was that virus made by somepunk? or was it a terrorist?

Sol

Jan 25, 2003, 10:12 PM

It is a little ironic that a web-site called MacRumors.com relies so heavily on Windows for its web-site. Out of all the Mac sites this one was the only one that went down. Just imagine, if it was on the non-Microsoft Net they would not have been forced offline because of a little worm.;)

MacCoaster

Jan 25, 2003, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by ~/indigo
I am getting annoyed with all these people claiming that MSSQL is the best. I have NEVER seen benchmarks to back this up. The best I have seen are ones that claim it isn't the worst thing out there (ironically, Access always wins that title).

I did a quick search for comparisons including MySQL (the one I use). Here is the first hit I found:
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,293,00.asp

Truthfully this is comparing with a MySQL Max build but that will be mainstream before to long and is available now (and I have found it very good so far).

Just thought you guys might be interested,
Jeff.
I guess you never bothered to read my post. tpc.org (http://www.tpc.org/) [tpc.org] has tons of information on various DB servers and their performance, price per performance ration, etc. You will see that Microsoft SQL Server has the best bang for the back.

Microsoft SQL Server is the best solution for MY problem. I refuse to touch MySQL. It's a great SQL Server tailored VERY specifically for web stuff. I'm talking enterprise level. This is where MySQL doesn't even touch. Rollbacks, transactions, clustering, ANSI SQL [yes, MS-SQL is compliant, MySQL has some weird hacks to SQL for Web optimizations], stored procedures [soon to be done in your favorite <language>.NET, making it far more powerful], excellent tools, Enteprise Manager [can't live without that], and so on. You realize Microsoft-IIS powers pretty much half of SSL-encrypted sites, which are used mostly for e-commerce. Most likely using Microsoft SQL in junction of IIS.

Not to be a troll. Use tools that best fits your needs. If MySQL fits your needs fine, doesn't crash, doesn't get hacked, doesn't get too slow, etc. you're fine.

But on the other side, Enterprise level. I can't accept anything lower than Oracle or Microsoft SQL Server for what I do.

People think Microsoft SQL Server is good because it IS good.

shadowfax

Jan 25, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by melchior
shadowfax, was that virus made by somepunk? or was it a terrorist?

probably saddam himself :eek:

I'm uncomfortable with MR being down.

janey

Jan 25, 2003, 10:32 PM

arn if you wany i'm sure i can dig up some xserves or something...

sucked for everyone, this worm. every single one of my favorite websites were down. :(

No e-mail!!!

Okay, so i don't care if you diss south korea for fun or for real...it's just that one of my grandparents were from there and that country is sometimes great (but i highly dislike the actual number of Wintel users in that country)...

melchior

Jan 25, 2003, 10:48 PM

i think there are a few contributing factors that cause people to think ill of korea (too often generalised like this)

for ekample, north korea was dubbed part of the axis of evil. making and selling weapons and what not. i don't see the US doing anything about it really, it's not like they have anything america wants.

in the south there is a growing distaste for the strong US military presence, fuelled by incident after incident, most notably one jeep, two marines and two dead girls. this dislike is beginning to sound like hate, especially as violence is perpetrated against military personell by south koreans.

this leads into a rather childish attitude, led by media, 'you hate me? well i hate you back' there is of course contradictions left right and center in the polical antics of both countries, but they are politicians, what do you expect.

all in all, korea, in general is attracting a bad label, when really it is a fantastic country of a vast culture. with very cool electronics years ahead of the US, in use as everyday tools.

MorganX

Jan 25, 2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

That's not a good thing. I'm sure that Microsoft.com took as much abuse, if not MUCH more, yet it was up the entire night and it did not receive any performance hit.

Microsoft.com, Zdnet.com, and looprumors.com were some of my regulars that were unaffected.

While Microsoft.com was not affected, hotmail.com was unavailable for some time.

I have a feeling this is an internal attack, probably MS competitors, and I hope when they are found they are imprisoned.

jamilecrire

Jan 25, 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

snip...

But on the other side, Enterprise level. I can't accept anything lower than Oracle or Microsoft SQL Server for what I do.

People think Microsoft SQL Server is good because it IS good.

Comparing MySQL to MS SQL Server is like comparing MS SQL Server to Oracle, it just doesn't work.

Transact SQL is a piece of ****e. PL/SQL is significantly easier and more logically laid out. Replication/Rollback/... is flawless in Oracle. SQL Server still leaves lots to be desired.

That being said .Net has excellent SQL integration for stepping through stored procs which can be a godsend when your debugging someone elses horrible code. And having worked with both Oracle since version 7.x and MS SQL from 6.5 the gap is closing.

Unfortunately I work in a MS only shop (I've been sneeking linux in slowly [3 projects at this point]) and have almost got my boss ready to buy a G4 Tower or iMac for his DVD creation machine.

For my personal company I run all Linux on the server side (saves ton's on licenses and Oracle isn't in Release Candidate stage like it is for OS X [cant wait]) and on the client I run Windows 2000/XP and OS X. Linux has a hell of a long way to go before it's a desktop machine (for any use other than hackers/programmers or servers).

Sol

Jan 25, 2003, 11:10 PM

This thread has been hijacked by paranoid fears. So far the suspects are: Saddam (who else?), Usama bin Laden, North Korea and of course, Microsoft's competitors. My interpretation of all this: we are all affected by war.

Anyway, I hope even more IT people get the hint that MS solutions are not safe, especially when they are singled out by these worms on the Net.

Phil Of Mac

Jan 25, 2003, 11:22 PM

It was a North Korean practice run! Next time the entire Internet is going down and the Axis of Evil will invade South Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan all at once!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE MUST PREVENT THEM FROM GETTING THE VIRUS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rainman::|:|

Jan 26, 2003, 01:11 AM

god i swear, some of you people can't read. how many times does arn have to post the fact that this site runs on a linux box, in a hosting facility, and that all of their computers were offline? quit making stupid little jokes and inferences. the *entire* internet was affected, not just MS servers, because the damn worm tied up EVERYTHING to reproduce itself, resulting in a worldwide DOS. not all sites were completely down, but everything faced slowdown, and a lot was crippled. I understand that Japan was awful, the whole country could barely log on.

now, as for viruses. i've only had one virus on a mac, and i installed it myself, to test my virus scanner. this was system 6 or 7, years and years ago...

ahh, the good ol' days of 6. Font/DA Mover. i hated that app with a passion...

pnw

MacCoaster

Jan 26, 2003, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by jamilecrire
Comparing MySQL to MS SQL Server is like comparing MS SQL Server to Oracle, it just doesn't work.
Exactly my reasoning why I refuse to touch MySQL.
Transact SQL is a piece of ****e. PL/SQL is significantly easier and more logically laid out. Replication/Rollback/... is flawless in Oracle. SQL Server still leaves lots to be desired.
Eh, this is subjective. I recently did some stress testing with replication, rollback, etc. on my Microsoft SQL Server and did it flawlessly. YMMV, I guess.
That being said .Net has excellent SQL integration for stepping through stored procs which can be a godsend when your debugging someone elses horrible code. And having worked with both Oracle since version 7.x and MS SQL from 6.5 the gap is closing.
Yep. .NET rocks. Enough said. Microsoft has done a great job penetrating into the enterprise line. Oracle and Microsoft SQL Server are both excellent servers. Props to Microsoft for creating a native .NET SQL class for Oracle as they always have had.

You know about Yukon? Stored procedures will be able to be programmed in <language>.NET. That'd be awesome and less bugs in stored procedures. I can't live without the try {} catch {} finally {} sequence.
Unfortunately I work in a MS only shop (I've been sneeking linux in slowly [3 projects at this point]) and have almost got my boss ready to buy a G4 Tower or iMac for his DVD creation machine.

For my personal company I run all Linux on the server side (saves ton's on licenses and Oracle isn't in Release Candidate stage like it is for OS X [cant wait]) and on the client I run Windows 2000/XP and OS X. Linux has a hell of a long way to go before it's a desktop machine (for any use other than hackers/programmers or servers).
Great! Glad to hear you're doing what is suitable for your needs.

Yes, I agree about Linux on desktop. No way in hell it's going to be on the desktop in the immediate future. That's the problem with UNIX/Linux: no gosh darned standards for UI, libraries, etc. Sure it's nice having choice, but that's way over the heads of the average Joe, and Linux worshippers must realize that if they want to succeed in the desktop world, they must do what Microsoft and Apple are innovating in the desktop market.
Originally posted by MorganX
I have a feeling this is an internal attack, probably MS competitors, and I hope when they are found they are imprisoned.
Couldn't agree more. As I said before, it is very similar to Code Red. And yes, they should be imprisioned! I mean, gosh darn, I couldn't connect to many sites--even to the Apple Store... I was going to configure my 17" PowerBook! :mad:
Originally posted by Sol
Anyway, I hope even more IT people get the hint that MS solutions are not safe, especially when they are singled out by these worms on the Net.
As noted before, the patch has been available months before the attacks, just like Code Red.

An interesting read (http://www.aberdeen.com/ab_abstracts/2002/11/11020005.htm) [aberdeen.com] is about how Windows no longer has the most security advisories, according to their sources.

Apache worms (http://www.itso.iu.edu/bulletins/openssl_worm.epl) do exist. Oh no! This means UNIX is insecure! :rolleyes:

Even more (http://www.secmod.com/news/2001-04-11/)!

You just hear more about Windows because "that's Microsoft" or "that's Windows" and it creates FUD to the average Windows user because they use Windows.

Golden rule: nothing is ever as secure as it can be.

shadowfax

Jan 26, 2003, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

Golden rule: nothing is ever as secure as it can be.

nothing is ever as anything as it can be!

:rolleyes: ;)

chewbaccapits

Jan 26, 2003, 02:35 AM

I saw this whole VIRUS thing on CNN...And what I found interesting was that while the story was being read, in the background, an image of an blue iMac was part of the news "graphics"....I mean, the newscaster said it attacked servers running Microsoft SQL Servers...So I don't see why a iMac was used for that graphic....??????....A$$ES!

Marvenp

Jan 26, 2003, 03:08 AM

Originally posted by krossfyter
so who did it?

the commies?

al qeada?

saddam hussiens IT guy?

or some korens?

Why is it that everytime something bad happens, Americans always have to assume it was someone from a foriegn country. It could have just as easily been some Arian Nation a$$hole in Montana planning world destruction 'cause his daddy taught him dissis da whiteman's world.

And yeah, I'm American but I don't think that way. We can be just as messed up as any country out there. I love my country, but America is NOT perfect! Hell, we let GW become President, that can't say too much for us.

In addition, WE as Mac users are supposed to be more intelligent (by association) than the Windoze masses, so let's try to be more conscious of our posts. Let's try to keep racism out of this forum shall we? This is a great place for Mac users to gather and talk about the platform we love; let's keep it that way.

Phil Of Mac

Jan 26, 2003, 03:31 AM

The last Macintosh virus was the 1998 AutoStart 9805 Worm, which only affected systems that had "AutoStart CD's" turned on. It was widely distributed on one of MacAddict's included CD's. MacAddict later distributed a clean disc.

onetime

Jan 27, 2003, 03:14 AM

The reasoning behind my gratitude for this destructive worm is that allowed me to play chess for over 5 hours paid instead of taking calls for Dull Tech Support... First day in a week that I arrived on time, but all aside, Thank you, blackhat(s)!

ryan

Jan 27, 2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

[snip]
Yep. .NET rocks. Enough said. Microsoft has done a great job penetrating into the enterprise line. Oracle and Microsoft SQL Server are both excellent servers. Props to Microsoft for creating a native .NET SQL class for Oracle as they always have had.
[snip]
Yes, .NET like a lot of MS products is very nice but how can you use it and feel good about what you're doing? By using Windows/IIS/MSSQL/.NET you've locked yourself into closed, proprietary technologies that are controlled by convicted monopolist and are at the mercy of that monopolist.

MacCoaster

Jan 27, 2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by ryan
Yes, .NET like a lot of MS products is very nice but how can you use it and feel good about what you're doing? By using Windows/IIS/MSSQL/.NET you've locked yourself into closed, proprietary technologies that are controlled by convicted monopolist and are at the mercy of that monopolist.
Please. I've been through anti-MS FUD. 99% of those are unfounded. Of course 78.4% of statistics are made up. ;) But you get my point. Most of them are just outright ridiculous.

I use Microsoft .NET and feel good about what I'm doing because Microsoft .NET allows me to code less, quicker--basically be more productive. As a programmer, that is very important. .NET can be very versatile, even more so than Java sometimes.

.NET is Microsoft's highest quality software architecture ever. They spent years and years reimplementing Win32, COM/COM+, ActiveX, etc. into one nice package in a managed environment.

Sure Windows and and IIS are proprietary. But what do I care. They work, and they do work very well. They sure as hell are much easier to use and configure than UNIX servers with Apache and they are just as stable and work as well.

And what are you smoking about Microsoft SQL being proprietary. It's using ANSI-SQL for pete's sake. Every piece of SQL queries and stored procedures has worked cross platform with PostreSQL, as I do development on both PostreSQL and Microsoft SQL Server. SQL Server 2000 also can export the requested query to XML. All standards. Okay, maybe not ADVANCED features. But same is true with Oracle. Playing devil's advocate: Oracle *IS* proprietary as well, yet you drool over Oracle, just because it's not Microsoft's. SQL is pretty much compatible with any others, except on extremely advanced stuff. MySQL b0rks out on some ANSI SQL that I've tried, but then again, its target isn't enterprise, but as a fast engine for the Web that people can afford if they can't afford or don't need the advanced features of all advanced SQL database servers.

Oh, by the way, .NET isn't exactly proprietary. It's Microsoft's implementation of the ECMA standard CLI. As with Java, .NET classes can be proprietary (i.e. System.Windows.Forms) but there is nothing to stop Mono from being able to implement their own. In fact, they have a few that binds with QT and GTK. Hell, I can even make 100% pure .NET binaries using Mono with GTK to produce Linux UI apps without a single cent sent to Microsoft. This is similar to Java's Swing. Apple is doing exactly this--keeping the UI proprietary. So suddenly, for Microsoft, this has to change? Wtf. In fact, I think this is the best way for UIs to interoperate. Why should Microsoft bother optimizing Windows Forms and make sure they work on all of X11's Window Managers. GTK and QT already can do pretty much what is needed--all they need is a .NET wrapper for it and optimize it. I'd choose that for a Linux solution over trying to make Windows Forms work on all window managers.

At least it's finally pushing competition to Java. Sun will have a much greater incentive to innovate on Java.

Please, send your FUDs to people who will blindly believe you. I know for a fact that I'm not the only .NET developer surfing on this boards.

ryan

Jan 27, 2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by MacCoaster

[snip]
Please, send your FUDs to people who will blindly believe you. I know for a fact that I'm not the only .NET developer surfing on this boards.
MS is a convicted monopolist and the majority of their products are closed and/or are proprietary. Please tell me were the FUD is? I’m not in the mood to get into some pissing match over completing technologies; I’ve been using UNIX, MacOS, and Windows for a long time and have heard all the arguments. I know that I feel better and am just as productive, if not more so, using products and technologies that don’t come from MS; sell your soul to whomever you chose.

MacCoaster

Jan 27, 2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by ryan
MS is a convicted monopolist and the majority of their products are closed and/or are proprietary. Please tell me were the FUD is? I’m not in the mood to get into some pissing match over completing technologies; I’ve been using UNIX, MacOS, and Windows for a long time and have heard all the arguments. I know that I feel better and am just as productive, if not more so, using products and technologies that don’t come from MS; sell your soul to whomever you chose.
Yes, Microsoft is a convicted monopolist. But does that change the fact that I think .NET is one of the best technologies to come out in years? No.

Your FUD is that Microsoft is 100% purely proprietary and incompatible with others.

Good for you, use what works for you. Why do you have to attack the Windows/.NET users for using what's best for them? The majority of SSL-powered sites are run on Microsoft's platform, and SSL accounts for most, if not all, e-commerce.

I don't sell my soul to anyone, not even to Microsoft. I purchase Microsoft products with my money. Money isn't my soul. :rolleyes: :D

trusted_content

Jan 27, 2003, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by onetime
The reasoning behind my gratitude for this destructive worm is that allowed me to play chess for over 5 hours paid instead of taking calls for Dull Tech Support... First day in a week that I arrived on time, but all aside, Thank you, blackhat(s)!

Mmmm..... I think I ws playing chess anyway ;]

edenwaith

Jan 28, 2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Marvenp

Why is it that everytime something bad happens, Americans always have to assume it was someone from a foriegn country. It could have just as easily been some Arian Nation a$$hole in Montana planning world destruction 'cause his daddy taught him dissis da whiteman's world.

Sorry, the Aryan Nation folks are in Idaho. Montana has the Unabomber and Freemen, instead.

But if a Montanan was pissed about something, it would be that they are about 1,000 miles (1,600 Km) from the nearest Apple Retail Store! There aren't even any bordering states or provinces which have an Apple Store.

shadowfax

Jan 28, 2003, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by edenwaith

Sorry, the Aryan Nation folks are in Idaho. Montana has the Unabomber and Freemen, instead.

But if a Montanan was pissed about something, it would be that they are about 1,000 miles (1,600 Km) from the nearest Apple Retail Store! There aren't even any bordering states or provinces which have an Apple Store.

honestly, the Aryan Nation folks originated in a foreign country. ethnocentrism and overt racism are not american novelties. both are pervasive in Europe (perhaps less so the ethnocentrism), and racism is definitely a monstrous issue in asia.

not that this has a whole lot to what you are saying, edenwaith, other than to add to it.

I can't imagine what that must be like to be so far from an apple store, but it seems just as bad to be in Austin, Texas. Dallas has TWO apple stores, and houston has one too. but AUSTIN is the home of the artsy folks, the intellectuals. lots of us use macs. we're the capital, for crying out loud! apple needs a store here. i'm sick of seeing gateway country, and CompUSA and Fry's don't cut it.

edenwaith

Jan 28, 2003, 06:00 PM

Well, at least there are a couple of Apple stores in your state. I did some travelling during the holidays, and I'm regretting that I didn't take an alternate route and stop in Bloomington, MN to check out the store at the Mall of America. Probably would have spent most of the day there, too. Don't know if I would have bought much, though...Minnesota's sales tax is pretty high.

shadowfax

Jan 29, 2003, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by edenwaith
Well, at least there are a couple of Apple stores in your state. I did some travelling during the holidays, and I'm regretting that I didn't take an alternate route and stop in Bloomington, MN to check out the store at the Mall of America. Probably would have spent most of the day there, too. Don't know if I would have bought much, though...Minnesota's sales tax is pretty high.

TX sales tax is icky too, nearly 10%. i haven't been to any TX apple stores, not having a car or the time. but when i was in Arkansas over Christmas, we drove to memphis, where there is an apple store, and i got to go have a look. i bought the TR trilogy (1-3) for 10$ lol. very cool places.