MacBook Pro Reviews and Benchmarks

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Arstechnica provides their review of the MacBook Pro (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbookpro.ars), and covers basic areas, including battery life (avg 3hr 17min) and benchmarking (vs G4 PowerBook and Dell Inspiron).

Macworld also provided their thoughts (http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php) on the MacBook Pro along with Benchmarks comparing it to various Mac PowerPC (PowerBook G4, iBook G4, PowerMac G5) and Intel Mac models (iMac Dual Core).

Direct comparisons are still difficult to make between PowerPC and Intel models due to the variable availability of Universal Binaries.

[supergod]

I personally am really dissapointed by the Macbook's battery life. I will not consider a Macbook until it is significantly improved. Here's hoping the Macbook Thin gets a bump in batter life.

[wordmunger]

Wow-- she did the battery test I was looking for -- life with the screen dimmed, and it was still just over 3 hours. Not great. I expect that with my use (more word processing, less photoshop), I'd get better life, but that's still not very good. Oh, well -- another excuse to hang on to the iBook.

[stockscalper]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.

[VanMac]

Performance on this machine looks pretty good. Battery not so much, but may not be main concern for some. I may be looking for another machine in the future, and this may be an option to hold over till the Intel PowerMacs come out.

[iGary]

I honestly don't know what the big deal with battery life is.

When I had to depend on 6 hours or more, I bought another battery. Done.

[Chaszmyr]

Battery life is disappointing, but tolerable. Performance is incredible.

(These comments are from personal experience as well as this article)

[TBi]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.

He only promised more performance per watt. If these new laptops are twice as fast as the old ones using the same power then you are getting more performance per watt.

[PharmD]

Good review. I'm suprised by the results of the dell and how well OSX runs on a non-apple machine. They did make the needed distinction however in the difference in power consumption.

[nylon]

Just you wait till those MEROM chips hit the market. Then you will be thanking Steve for the switch. Battery life will be 5 to 6 hours.

[sishaw]

Just you wait till those MEROM chips hit the market. Then you will be thanking Steve for the switch. Battery life will be 5 to 6 hours.
I hope you're right. Battery life is one of the main reasons I switched. 3 hours is dissapointing.

[revjay]

I honestly don't know what the big deal with battery life is.

When I had to depend on 6 hours or more, I bought another battery. Done.
I would have to be desperate to drop that extra $ and carry the extra lb's.

[WizeGuy]

FYI, in this battery test they had BOTH bluetooth and WiFi on, only with the screen being dimmed. Thats a big hit to battery life. If I turn my screen down, and turn off bluetooth and WiFi then I get about 5 hours of excel use (for when I'm in those LONG meetings or plane flight), which is more than I ever got on my old 15inch Powerbook (aluminum). This is with the 2.0 Ghz model.

[iGary]

I'll be buying one of these.

















Next year when Photoshop is UB, and they have all the issues worked out - oooh, and 17-inch model. That's when my wallet will have money quickly sucked from it. Until then...

[mkaake]

I suppose we could complain about the battery (though every lappy I've used barely makes it to the 3 hour mark, but hey), but instead... let's focus on something postive:

While on the topic of screens, the display on the MacBook Pro is nothing less than stellar. It's extremely bright, crisp, and the colors look great while still staying true to the Mac color profile

[revjay]

I honestly don't know what the big deal with battery life is.

When I had to depend on 6 hours or more, I bought another battery. Done.
Good thing the batteries are so affordable:rolleyes:

[rjgjonker]

The MacBook Pro is a few percent faster than a PowerBook on average. Quite impressive, for a machine with twice as many CPU cores that are both clocked higher and a memory bus that runs on four times the clock rate.
The battery life is significantly shorter with a battery with 20% more capacity. Still, it is better than I expected, but I really don't get why the MBP is such a 'leap forwards' from the PB.

I'd like to see some vector benchmarks as well. Apple has cleverly hidden those from their website. I don't think SSE3 will be quite on par with AltiVec.

[BornAgainMac]

Integrated graphics will improve battery life. The ATI 1600 will eat up battery life quickly. Lots of tradoffs to consider with a laptop. Not everyone can be happy.

[mkaake]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.

Yup. Steavo is the idiot for sure...

My resident EE tells me that the dual-core Core Duo processors in the MacBook Pro use about 25 to 47 watts of power consumption versus about 30 or so on the Aluminum, PowerPC 74xx PowerBook G4s

<edit> but I'm sure if you give him a phone call, and let him know (since he probably didn't have any research on this at all), that he'd be willing to switch the powerbooks back to G4's...

[patseguin]

Anyone know how the top-end MacBook compares performance-wise to a 1st gen Dual 2GHz G5 with an x800?

[sishaw]

but I really don't get why the MBP is such a 'leap forwards' from the PB.



It's the upgrade path. Intel is much better than IBM at upping their clock speeds. The G series was just stuck at these horrible slow speeds, and IBM wasn't willing to put the R & D in to get them to run faster. They were getting to the point where the multithreading and RISC processing wasn't going to make up for the slow speeds, and Intel and AMD were just going to relegate them to the backwaters.

Intel will get Apple to the promised 3 ghz chip. The G series was never going to get there.

[nagromme]

Add more sizes (I'm sure they're coming) and I'm sold!

One thing often overlooked in regards to speed on dual cores: it really comes into its own when running MORE than one app. Which many people commonly do. Test just one app and its a question of how well its optimized for multiple CPUs. But test real-world use and you may find even greater benefits.

ALso, yes, the screen is very slightly shorter in inches. AND WIDER. And larger (thus more readable) overall. It's a new wider shape which now matches the 16:10 widescreen shape of most other Apple displays, and is better than ever for movies. Previously, the 15" PowerBook had been a little more "square" than that. In addition, Apple was limited to whatever displays are actually available that are this bright and clear. I don't see why the 60-pixel difference bothers some people so much, especially since it's still higher than PowerBooks had not too many months ago--the same as the 17" used to be.

Specifically, the old PowerBook G4 15.2" has a screen 12.7x8.4".

And the new MacBook Pro 15.4" has a screen 13.1" x 8.2". SLIGHTLY shorter, but wider too. With 94% of the pixel workspace. Nothing to complain about for me.

[_bnkr612]

Sweet as. I'll be looking for the Rev. B. which teams up with a touch screen iPod.

[DTphonehome]

Good thing the batteries are so affordable:rolleyes:

And lightweight and non-bulky!

[rjgjonker]

It's the upgrade path. Intel is much better than IBM at upping their clock speeds. The G series was just stuck at these horrible slow speeds, and IBM wasn't willing to put the R & D in to get them to run faster. They were getting to the point where the multithreading and RISC processing wasn't going to make up for the slow speeds, and Intel and AMD were just going to relegate them to the backwaters.

Intel will get Apple to the promised 3 ghz chip. The G series was never going to get there.

The problem was not that IBM wasn't willing to invest their R&D towards faster G5 chips. The problem was that Apple refused to invest in the development of chips that they needed and they didn't order chips until they needed them.

Intel is not anywhere near 3GHz on their new platform and 3GHz chips aren't expected anytime soon. However, the chips are 32-bit, far more expensive than IBM's dual core chips and I expect their vector performance to be significantly slower than that of the 970 and the 745x. IBM could have made as much low-power 970's as Apple would have needed, if they would have just ordered them. AMD is currently making chips that outperform Intel's while using less power with IBM's technology.

Apple not delivering G5-class PowerBooks wasn't IBM's fault. It was Apple's. Mac users are now paying the price for that with a transition, more expensive Macs and inferior technology.

[syklee26]

I would have to disagree with some of the points made you guys and the reviewer. (by the way, I own this MBP 2.0ghz)

1. half dim screen on MBP is still much brighter than almost all other laptops in the market.

2. obviously battery life will take hit when you have both bluetooth and airport on. turn bluetooth off unless you use wireless mouse or listening to bluetooth headset.

3. nobody will be loading web pages constantly for 3 hours!

4. battery life is actually better than 3:10. I am getting about 3:35 right now in normal usage.

5. battery life should be even better with airport off.

[Diatribe]

Just you wait till those MEROM chips hit the market. Then you will be thanking Steve for the switch. Battery life will be 5 to 6 hours.

It's only supposed to be using 20% less, so I'd rather expect something around an average of 4 hours.

[syklee26]

The problem was not that IBM wasn't willing to invest their R&D towards faster G5 chips. The problem was that Apple refused to invest in the development of chips that they needed and they didn't order chips until they needed them.

Intel is not anywhere near 3GHz on their new platform and 3GHz chips aren't expected anytime soon. However, the chips are 32-bit, far more expensive than IBM's dual core chips and I expect their vector performance to be significantly slower than that of the 970 and the 745x. IBM could have made as much low-power 970's as Apple would have needed, if they would have just ordered them. AMD is currently making chips that outperform Intel's while using less power with IBM's technology.

Apple not delivering G5-class PowerBooks wasn't IBM's fault. It was Apple's. Mac users are now paying the price for that with a transition, more expensive Macs and inferior technology.


why should Apple invest big chunk of $$$ for IBM's potential profit? get over it. intel switch totally made sense from the beginning.

[DTphonehome]

This is dissapointing, but to be expected. Remember, this isn't a new revision of the Powerbook, this is an entirely new machine. The PB was refined over more than 5 years. At first it had lousy battery life (running OS X at least) too, but over time that was fixed. To be sure, the MBP is a big step forwards (CPU power, screen, graphics), but in many areas (battery life, rosetta performance hit, lack of universal for some major software), it's a step backwards. In time it'll be fixed, but it could be years before the MBP is as refined as the last PB was.

--DT

[nagromme]

As usual, reviews compare to the very-latest previous model, when most people aren't upgrading from THAT model, but from an older one.

How does Photoshop in Rosetta compare to a 1.25 GHz or 1.5 Ghz PowerBook G4 from a couple years ago? (Like mine :) )


The problem was not that IBM wasn't willing to invest their R&D towards faster G5 chips. The problem was that Apple refused to invest in the development of chips that they needed and they didn't order chips until they needed them. ... Apple not delivering G5-class PowerBooks wasn't IBM's fault. It was Apple's. Mac users are now paying the price for that with a transition, more expensive Macs and inferior technology.
So you're saying Apple should have increased their development cost per Mac to allow IBM to deliver what IBM promised anyway? Would Apple take a loss on each Mac, then, or would they increase the price of every Mac?

IBM said they could deliver certain things. They didn't say "we can deliver them, but we might just demand a whole lot more money later, and if you don't pay it, then we won't deliver after all." So what you're suggesting is that either Apple or Mac buyers take a loss to pay for IBM's failure.

The fact is, IBM doesn't want to BE in the personal computer processor market. It's more trouble than it's worth to them. They'd rather make gaming chips (consoles are EXPECTED to sell at a loss, remember) and server chips.

Intel, on the other hand, actually WANTS to make personal computer processors. And wants to work with Apple too.

[meinertzhagen]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.


That's pretty funny that you so religiously follow a "dumbass"
go buy a dell today and be happy.

[Shaker]

Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB114125851666086976-lMyQjAxMDE2NDAxMjIwNTI4Wj.html

The New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/02/technology/circuits/02pogue.html

[motulist]

I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.

I could buy an external modem, but that would not have helped me because most times that I've had to use my modem I didn't expect to need it before I left and so I wouldn't have taken it. Plus it costs extra money for what had been included. I use the tv out frequently, so I'd have to carry the converter around, plus that too would cost extra for what had been included.

Seeing this first gen of the Macbook Pro I am happier and happier that I have my Powerbook. I hope that Apple can fix these issues and get their high end notebook line back to what it should be by the time I need to get a new one.

[nagromme]

I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.
1) There's a green light to show when it's on (although I do like the physical iris on the full iSights)

2) True--but going back and forth I couldn't tell much difference.

3) Agreed. One more dongle to carry. Sadly this ship has sailed. Hopefully Internet access from mobile phones will improve in the US, or that dongle will stay in my life.

4) True--but you have to carry a video cable for that anyway (and for most TVs I use, you also had to carry Apple's S-video-to-composite adapter).

5) The Magsafe I tried was MORE FIRMLY secure than my PowerBook G4s connector. It takes little force to pull my power cord straight out, while the Magsafe was surprisingly strong--it's not what you may be thinking. The difference is when you pull forward or back instead of straight out: then MY power cord won't come out at all, and damage will result. Magsafe on the other hand had about the same force no matter what the angle, and tripping over the cord would disconnect it safely.

6) "Most" depends on your needs of course. Especially with Apple's pro apps about to be universal, and considering that some apps just don't NEED much speed.

7) Reports suggest the same to me, not worse.

8) Change is hard, but time heals :)

[motulist]

9) slower and no dual layer DVD burning
10) no firewire 800 port

[DTphonehome]

I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.

I could buy an external modem, but that would not have helped me because most times that I've had to use my modem I didn't expect to need it before I left and so I wouldn't have taken it. Plus it costs extra money for what had been included. I use the tv out frequently, so I'd have to carry the converter around, plus that too would cost extra for what had been included.

Seeing this first gen of the Macbook Pro I am happier and happier that I have my Powerbook. I hope that Apple can fix these issues and get their high end notebook line back to what it should be by the time I need to get a new one.

I agree with you completely, especially the point about the modem and the isight. Not to mention that the isight restricts where you can take the laptop. Many companies, law firms, and the like don't allow devices with cameras, which is why Treos come in camera and noncamera versions. It should have been an option.

[DTphonehome]

1) There's a green light to show when it's on (although I do like the physical iris on the full iSights)


Would you say it's absolutely impossible for someone to plant a trojan that disables the green light and transmits video discretely? I think that it could happen.

[motulist]

I'm not saying the Macbook Pro is bad, if anyone wants to buy one for me I'd gladly accept it. ;) What I'm trying to do here is add a voice of reason. Given the forum we're in it's very easy for people to accept a biased version of reality. Here's reality as I see it. The Macbook Pro is a great machine with lots and lots of potential. At the moment though, it is clearly a first gen machine that needs some kinks worked out. If you're a person who likes to be on the bleeding edge then this machine might be just right for you. But for many Mac users, ease of use and real world functionality are paramount, and in that regard I'd suggest people wait for the next gen Macbook unless they really must buy a new laptop right now. Just my 2 cents.

[yoda13]

To me, that battery life isn't quite good enough. Now if they would drop it into a 12" or 13" MBP, then I would find that to be quite acceptable. But overall, this isn't a good enough improvement over my fairly recent Powerbook. I think I will wait for Merom, unless of course, the one I am typing on breaks or something...:)

[itgoesbuzz]

I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.

1) For me personally the isight is of little to no use, but it is a nice feature.
2) I wonder how thin is too thin, i think the size of my 1.5 Ghz PB is perfect (except a wider screen would be okay)
3) agreed
4)I dont output to TV but i think many miss this feature
5) This is disagree with, if there is something i dont like about my powerbook it is the power cord which becomes unplugged so easily i cannot imagine the magsafe plug being any worse
6) mostly agree, it will be sweet in due time though
7) Battery life is dissapointing, would have liked to see it with airport and bluetooth off, i was hoping near 5hours, that is unrealistic maybe
8) The name, is alright, powerbook is a lot better of a name, but its not a powerbook anymore, itll do

[notjustjay]

Would you say it's absolutely impossible for someone to plant a trojan that disables the green light and transmits video discretely? I think that it could happen.

If the light is hard-wired to the imaging chip's power system, then yes, it would be impossible. That would be like me trying to palnt some kind of trojan into your home to prevent the bathroom lights from turning on when you flick the wall switch. Not gonna happen.

[YoNeX]

Apple will sell the iTape soon enough for those people that don't want to have an iSight staring at them. Here is the *EXCLUSIVE* leaked photos of what the product will look like :D

http://www.panthereast.com/images/duct%20tape.jpg

But really the MBP is a great notebook. Although I feel some of the stuff I do not need like the remote, isight, etc. Apple sells the experience through packages that work well together. That is one reason why you buy Apple products (uh don't turn this into a long argument of why this isn't true). But 3+ hours is great. Besides the point, stop looking at numbers at think real world. Intel was pure numbers with the whole mHz myth. So 3 hours is great. If you are going to be doing work for longer than three hours, I'm sure there will be an outlet for you to do your work. Also, if you are in desperate need for battery life, just turn dim the screen, turn off bluetooth, etc. Do not expect to get a some crazy battery life with like full screen brightness, encoding video, and downloading stuff of all bittorrent via wifi. You have to be willing to sacrafice somethings and work with you have. Now if the battery life was like 2 under max battery performance, then you can complain :p

[ITR 81]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.


My PB around 1 1/2 yrs old gets between 2hrs 35mins to 3hrs(if is everything is turned down). For me thats about 30+-min of battery life. Which is enough for me. I know my Pansonic Tough book only gets around 2hrs 30mins and thats just using freakin Word.

So anything over 3hrs is good enough for me. What was everyone expecting 4+hrs?? That just plan crazy...when you look at all the specs. When they said they go to Intel's I figured 3 hrs was a given.

My guess is when the new Intel's come out we'll get atleast 4+hrs on them.

[motulist]

If the light is hard-wired to the imaging chip's power system, then yes, it would be impossible. That would be like me trying to palnt some kind of trojan into your home to prevent the bathroom lights from turning on when you flick the wall switch. Not gonna happen.

Yes, but there are many other ways that this is a security risk.

1) If someone has physical access to your computer all they need to do is disable the signal led and then your security is gone.

2) How do I prove to other people that I can't be taking pictures or video unless that light is illuminated? And what are people around me supposed to do? Always be peeking over at my computer to check that the light isn't on?

3) You can call me paranoid if you like, but having a camera that I can't physically turn off and cover pointed at me 24/7 is way too big brother for me. I'm not saying it's probable, but it is possible that there is a backdoor coded into the system that allows remote activation of the camera without activation of the signal light.

I could go on, but that's enough to make the point. I don't need a built in camera, I don't want a built in camera, and I wont have a built in camera.

[motulist]

Apple will sell the iTape soon enough for those people that don't want to have an iSight staring at them. Here is the *EXCLUSIVE* leaked photos of what the product will look like :D

http://www.panthereast.com/images/duct%20tape.jpg



i know you were half joking about this, but just to give a serious answer, it is really not cool to buy a beautiful $2000 + computer and then have to go putting scraps of black electrical tape on it just to partially ensure your security.

[Diatribe]

i know you were half joking about this, but just to give a serious answer, it is really not cool to buy a beautiful $2000 + computer and then have to go putting scraps of black electrical tape on it just to partially ensure your security.

What are you worried about? Someone secretly spying on you? :rolleyes:
If the cam would be activated through a security hole, etc. you'd still the light that the camera is active.

[motulist]

What are you worried about? Someone secretly spying on you? :rolleyes:
If the cam would be activated through a security hole, etc. you'd still the light that the camera is active.

Read my previous post.

[stockscalper]

Intel, on the other hand, actually WANTS to make personal computer processors. And wants to work with Apple too.

Intel only wants to work with Apple because it is the only computer manufacturer they can tap. All the pc makers are going with AMD. It was when Dell announced they were changing half their production to AMD that Intel, seeing their marketshare go out the window, began putting the full court press on Apple making outrageous promises with their chip roadmap.

By the way, I'd like to see comparisons with the new 2 GHZ G4 and the 2 GHZ Intel chip. It's not fair to compare benchmarks with the Mactel to the old 1.67 Powerbooks. And although it wouldn't be possible to see the new G6 in a computer I'd like to see how the weak Mactel does against it head on.

[macjonny1]

WoW performance! What is it?!?!?!?

[Maxx Power]

By the way, I'd like to see comparisons with the new 2 GHZ G4 and the 2 GHZ Intel chip. It's not fair to compare benchmarks with the Mactel to the old 1.67 Powerbooks. And although it wouldn't be possible to see the new G6 in a computer I'd like to see how the weak Mactel does against it head on.

The new 2Ghz G4 is benched against similar speed procs at barefeats, go check it out. The summary is, with the hobbly slow FSB, the G4 is doomed as it is. A hair faster than the 1.67's. That's as much as I recall from reading that a while back.

As for the G6, if you are referring to the next gen Power ISA IBM chip, that's a narrow chip just like the P4, for fast serial execution. For all those who didn't like P4's style and high power consumption native of narrow chips, you won't like the next IBM chip as well. Clock for clock it is a loser unless IBM can solve the problem Intel never could, how to clock it high enough and keep it going.

[mmmcheese]

Would you say it's absolutely impossible for someone to plant a trojan that disables the green light and transmits video discretely? I think that it could happen.

It's impossible for a trojan to remove a piece of tape that you've placed over the camera.


EDIT: And for the love of Bob, stop using the computer while nude.

[DTphonehome]

It's impossible for a trojan to remove a piece of tape that you've placed over the camera.


EDIT: And for the love of Bob, stop using the computer while nude.

I'm not the first person to think it's absurd to stick a piece of tape on a $2000+ machine that is valued for its asthetic appeal. Remember how apoplectic people here got when it was suggested that an Intel Mac might have an "Intel Inside" sticker on it? Besides, putting tape over the lens doesn't solve the security issue. You can put your cameraphone in a lead box, but if there's a "no camera" policy anywhere, they won't let you take it in. They sure as hell won't let you take in a laptop with a camera, even if it's swaddled in tape.

Surely Apple knows this? I mean, I'm quite sure they have a "no camera" policy in their own product labs. Why would they make a "professional" product that can't be brought into design labs, architectural firms, biotech companies, and the like? They really should offer a model with no iSight.

And as for not using the computer in the nude, that smacks of the "if you've got nothing to hide, why hide it?" argument. Why not let the government (or your neighbor) read your mail or wiretap your phone? You've got nothing to hide, right? So you wouldn't mind if I set up a webcam in your house?

[motulist]

I'm not the first person to think it's absurd to stick a piece of tape on a $2000+ machine that is valued for its asthetic appeal. Remember how apoplectic people here got when it was suggested that an Intel Mac might have an "Intel Inside" sticker on it? Besides, putting tape over the lens doesn't solve the security issue. You can put your cameraphone in a lead box, but if there's a "no camera" policy anywhere, they won't let you take it in. They sure as hell won't let you take in a laptop with a camera, even if it's swaddled in tape.

Surely Apple knows this? I mean, I'm quite sure they have a "no camera" policy in their own product labs. Why would they make a "professional" product that can't be brought into design labs, architectural firms, biotech companies, and the like? They really should offer a model with no iSight.

And as for not using the computer in the nude, that smacks of the "if you've got nothing to hide, why hide it?" argument. Why not let the government (or your neighbor) read your mail or wiretap your phone? You've got nothing to hide, right? So you wouldn't mind if I set up a webcam in your house?

Totally. Anybody who says it's good that the camera is a non removable feature is an Apple fanboy apologist who would never say anything from Apple was a problem.

[DTphonehome]

Totally. Anybody who says it's good that the camera is a non removable feature is an Apple fanboy apologist who would never say anything from Apple was a problem.

Except maybe a $99 iPod case :)
I haven't yet encountered an even foaming-at-the-mouth-rabid fanboy who thinks that was a good idea.

[Frobozz]

Wow-- she did the battery test I was looking for -- life with the screen dimmed, and it was still just over 3 hours. Not great. I expect that with my use (more word processing, less photoshop), I'd get better life, but that's still not very good. Oh, well -- another excuse to hang on to the iBook.

I think you're looking at this in the wrong way-- dimming the screen used to be a primary way to save battery life, but it's no longer as required. That's a HUGE benefit.

As a MBPro 2.16 owner, I can say with confidence that the 3+ hours I get with maximum performance and my screen brightness at full blast is more than enough. Let's face it-- am I going to be rendering on Cinema 4D for a significant amount of time without the AC plugged in? Nope.

I have a desktop replacement computer. If I wanted iBook calibre performance, I would have bought one or waited for the upcoming Intel models.

So, all in all, the MacBook pro has been a fantastic piece of hardware for me.

[nagromme]

Would you say it's absolutely impossible for someone to plant a trojan that disables the green light and transmits video discretely? I think that it could happen.
It COULD be absolutely impossible to disable the LED--I'd be interested to find that answer out too. We need a dissection :D

It depends on how it is wired. A very simple example: if power reaching the camera passes through the LED, then there's no way to disable the LED an have the camera work.

If Apple didn't do the LED right, then I'd object. Not enough to avoid the MacBook, but I'd prefer a physical shutter like the external iSights have.

Now, for employers that require there to BE no camera at all, that's another matter. Of course that's a problem for some buyers. Apple may wish to add a special "secure environment" model later. Just like they added a special (slightly different) AirPort Extreme model that met certain fire codes allowing it to be used above drop ceilings.


By the way, I'd like to see comparisons with the new 2 GHZ G4 and the 2 GHZ Intel chip.
I'd like to see Freescale's ability to ship anything significantly faster than the current G4... in QUANTITY. And then to ship something to compete with Merom. And to ship THAT In quantity. And to guarantee all this despite so many delays in the past. Fool me once...

[Diatribe]

Yes, but there are many other ways that this is a security risk.

1) If someone has physical access to your computer all they need to do is disable the signal led and then your security is gone.

2) How do I prove to other people that I can't be taking pictures or video unless that light is illuminated? And what are people around me supposed to do? Always be peeking over at my computer to check that the light isn't on?

3) You can call me paranoid if you like, but having a camera that I can't physically turn off and cover pointed at me 24/7 is way too big brother for me. I'm not saying it's probable, but it is possible that there is a backdoor coded into the system that allows remote activation of the camera without activation of the signal light.

I could go on, but that's enough to make the point. I don't need a built in camera, I don't want a built in camera, and I wont have a built in camera.

1) Never let anyone have physical access to your computer. Basic rule. Also you would know the light doesn't work sooner or later.

2) Why would other people care if it is not in their home? It's the same with camera phones.

3) It would need a trojan to do that, which would be known to exist if it did. You're not implying that Apple spies on you or the government right?If you're THAT paranoid, do you also use PGP, File Vault, email and chat encryption and do you lock your Mac away in a safe when you're gone? Do you close your blinds at home, use tinted car windows, etc.


I'm not trying to ridicule your post just trying to point out that there are more ways to being spied on than that. A lot easier ways.

[motulist]

I don't think you're ridiculing my post, I think you're ridiculing your own.

1) Never let anyone have physical access to your computer. Basic rule. Also you would know the light doesn't work sooner or later.

That's your answer? I have to physically handcuff my laptop to my arm to expect security? If I leave a powerbook locked to a desk and password protected, somebody can damage it, but not reduce its security. This is no longer true with the Macbook Pro. And I would know sooner or later? Yeah, when I found out that my secret corporate project I've been slaving over was just released by my comptitor. As in too late. I could answer each point one by one, but I'm about to step out. C'mon man, just be straight with this. Do you think it's good that the camera is a non removable feature, yes or no.

[nagromme]

If I leave a powerbook locked to a desk and password protected, somebody can damage it, but not reduce its security. This is no longer true with the Macbook Pro.
A password-protected MacBook Pro will give access to a stranger when a password-protected PowerBook would not?

I agree that some people would like the no-camera option for paranoia reasons, and some business would DEMAND it for security reasons. There should be (and likely WILL be) a way to get one without a camera. But the password thing I don't understand.

[e-clipse]

1) Never let anyone have physical access to your computer. Basic rule. Also you would know the light doesn't work sooner or later.

2) Why would other people care if it is not in their home? It's the same with camera phones.

3) It would need a trojan to do that, which would be known to exist if it did. You're not implying that Apple spies on you or the government right?If you're THAT paranoid, do you also use PGP, File Vault, email and chat encryption and do you lock your Mac away in a safe when you're gone? Do you close your blinds at home, use tinted car windows, etc.


I'm not trying to ridicule your post just trying to point out that there are more ways to being spied on than that. A lot easier ways.

the infamous directional mic

[amateurmacfreak]

Would you say it's absolutely impossible for someone to plant a trojan that disables the green light and transmits video discretely? I think that it could happen.
may I ask exactly what you're doing in front of your computer? :p

Jk, though. I get your point.

[Diatribe]

I don't think you're ridiculing my post, I think you're ridiculing your own.



That's your answer? I have to physically handcuff my laptop to my arm to expect security? If I leave a powerbook locked to a desk and password protected, somebody can damage it, but not reduce its security. This is no longer true with the Macbook Pro. And I would know sooner or later? Yeah, when I found out that my secret corporate project I've been slaving over was just released by my comptitor. As in too late. I could answer each point one by one, but I'm about to step out. C'mon man, just be straight with this. Do you think it's good that the camera is a non removable feature, yes or no.

If you don't know what you are talking about then don't accuse me of ridiculing my post. I can access your data even if you have a firmware pw etc. set without a problem if I have physical access. If someone has physical access to your computer and you don't use a 256bit PGP encryption they can access your data, whether you like it or not.
And yes I do think there should be a model without it but more because of government/high security area issues than because of yours.

[Diatribe]

the infamous directional mic

Yeah I forgot that. ;)
Another easier method than to hack one's iSight. :rolleyes:

[fh2level]

So what im taking from this the MPB's Suck? Really? Or when you guys get the money you will actually be buying one as well. I wish I wouldn't have read any of these forums cause they just confuse me. I have Dells...good machines...won't buy a new one till Vista and wanted A Mac notebook for something different since I am bored with XP at this point. I also like how the iLife suite all integrate togehter and the .mac backup. It seems for how Apple has such a "strong" following that there is an awful lot of resentment that I don't understand.

[notjustjay]

So what im taking from this the MPB's Suck? Really?

Well, the primary bugaboos that people have about the MBP are:

* the battery life ain't so hot
* the built-in iSight is a privacy/security risk.

Remember that when things are perfect and people are happy, they're less likely to post about it, though I have seen LOTS of positive posts about people and their new MBP's.

I can work around battery life, but the built-in iSight IS a factor that is going to cause problems for people until Apple provides a BTO option that is iSight-less. I am less concerned about personal privacy (read: the risk that someone could be spying on you or your data) as some people here are. HOWEVER, I am one of those who works in a high-security, NO CAMERAS ALLOWED facility. Understand, I would LOVE to buy a Macbook Pro, and I would love to use the built-in iSight to chat with my friends... but if I buy one, it will be with the understanding that I will NEVER be able to bring it into my workplace (on pain of being fired if I'm caught with it).

Put yourself in my shoes... would you buy a laptop if you knew that you absolutely COULD NOT bring it to school or work, ever?

[verb]

If you bought, or are going to buy a MacBook Pro then these reviews backup what you already knew you'd love about the machine.

If you don't want to buy a MacBook Pro (current computer needs filled, financial issues etc...) then these reviews defend your decision.

We all know that benchmarking is not an exact science and you can always find a benchmark that favors the machine you want to win.

I like to think of Apple computers like Porsche cars. While I have never owned a Porsche they seem to have quite a loyal following. There cars are seemingly more expensive than their spec sheets would imply. You can always find a significantly cheaper car that bests most Porsches on paper.

Porsche is releasing the Cayenne Turbo S next year I think. It's going to be well over $100 grand. I'm going to bet it 1) Weighs more and therefore 2) Doesn't corner as well 3) Gets worse gas mileage. It will most certainly NOT be 4x faster than the Cayenne Turbo or the even the Cayenne S. At most we're talking 20% faster than the Turbo.

Somewhere out on the internet there is a Cayenne message board where people that just bought a Cayenne and/or could never afford a 100 grand car are justifying their decisions. "Ferdinand is such an idiot! Adding more weight to an already overweight car. No thank you. I'll keep my Turbo!" or "Ugh...only 12MPG. I'm going to hold out for 2009 redesign (because I just bought an S a year ago)" Perhaps they'll use FUD to make them feel better: "an intercooler that large is just asking for trouble. I for one would never buy one".

I bet you won't find that message board because, for some reason, most Porsche people I know would never say those things. Every vehicle has it's tradeoffs and a cool car is a cool car.

[Photorun]

I honestly don't know what the big deal with battery life is.

Because Macrumors is now the snivling, whiny b****fest with people who don't have lives or a clue it seems. 3+ hours... do these people know of the high end Dulls that get 2 or the Alienware "portable gaming" laptop that got above 1 hour, and both weighed close to 10 pounds.

Macrumors people here need to get a clue before they comment.

And I've played with a new Macbook, it's a pro machine (read: needs power, power takes energy, energy takes battery life people, DEAL WITH IT!) and it's a sweet machine.

[DTphonehome]

Because Macrumors is now the snivling, whiny b****fest with people who don't have lives or a clue it seems. 3+ hours... do these people know of the high end Dulls that get 2 or the Alienware "portable gaming" laptop that got above 1 hour, and both weighed close to 10 pounds.

Macrumors people here need to get a clue before they comment.

And I've played with a new Macbook, it's a pro machine (read: needs power, power takes energy, energy takes battery life people, DEAL WITH IT!) and it's a sweet machine.

My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

[Photorun]

So what im taking from this the MPB's Suck? Really? Or when you guys get the money you will actually be buying one as well. I wish I wouldn't have read any of these forums cause they just confuse me. It seems for how Apple has such a "strong" following that there is an awful lot of resentment that I don't understand.

Pay no mind to the sniveling clueless whiners in these forums, they still want their precious Powerbook G5 with 12 hours of battery life, a 21 inch screen, weighing 14 ounces and costs $499. Only read semi-reliable news sources for info on machines, don't come here for facts, you'd be better off going to The Globe (and believing alien babies from celebrities) than actual facts from most the members here.

[DTphonehome]

Pay no mind to the sniveling clueless whiners in these forums, they still want their precious Powerbook G5 with 12 hours of battery life, a 21 inch screen, weighing 14 ounces and costs $499. Only read semi-reliable news sources for info on machines, don't come here for facts, you'd be better off going to The Globe (and believing alien babies from celebrities) than actual facts from most the members here.

Sheesh, man, lighten up, you sound like you physically gave birth to the MBP. Don't get so worked up.

[Photorun]

My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

Thanks... but I don't think they're complaining necessarily about that, they want unrealistic things that even peecees don't offer and a bag of chips. So the really old, not overclocked, G4 Powerbook got fairly good battery life, it was also a dog (I had the TiBook 500) and even some G3s could smoke it. Professional it wasn't, now we finally have a portable professional level machine and everybody is coming up with these crazy off-the-wall requests for super power AND super conservation... it'd be like wanting a V12 Dodge Viper that gets 50 miles per gallon, it's insanely unrealistic whining and it's so off based that some people need to get a big clue. When the iBook comes out, if those don't get 5+ hours, THEN b****, but for the Powerbook, which is supposed to be a pro machine, and look around at the peecee pro machines getting about the same life, it's really NOT that big a deal as some people who really, really need a reality check (or several) are making it.

[e-clipse]

I am personally looking forward to ordering my Macbook Pro, regardless of battery life. I am sure tech savvy people will find a way to get more life out of the battery in time.

[DTphonehome]

Thanks... but I don't think they're complaining necessarily about that, they want unrealistic things that even peecees don't offer and a bag of chips. So the really old, not overclocked, G4 Powerbook got fairly good battery life, it was also a dog (I had the TiBook 500) and even some G3s could smoke it. Professional it wasn't, now we finally have a portable professional level machine ...[snip rant]

It may be a dog now, but it was quite professional in its day (and I still use mine on a daily basis). So it's only fair that Apple's successor to the PB be compared to its predecessor. Gradually, the battery life of PBs tapered down, and with the big hype that Intel switch would bring better battery life, people expected more. It's telling that Apple themselves didn't say boo about the battery life of the MBP when it was announced.

[Diatribe]

It may be a dog now, but it was quite professional in its day (and I still use mine on a daily basis). So it's only fair that Apple's successor to the PB be compared to its predecessor. Gradually, the battery life of PBs tapered down, and with the big hype that Intel switch would bring better battery life, people expected more. It's telling that Apple themselves didn't say boo about the battery life of the MBP when it was announced.

They NEVER said battery life would go up. They said the performance per watt ratio would increase, which it has.

[DTphonehome]

They NEVER said battery life would go up. They said the performance per watt ratio would increase, which it has.

Fair enough. But people have grown to expect close to 4 hours or more out of their PBs, and getting close to the 3 hour mark is a psychological marker that is hard to allow.

By your logic, it's ok for battery life to decrease a certain amount, as long as performance rapidly rises. So if someone manages to cram a CRAY (or some other super powerful computer...I don't know who's on top now) into a MBP case and gets it to go for 10 minutes before the battery dies, that's an improvement?

[Diatribe]

Fair enough. But people have grown to expect close to 4 hours or more out of their PBs, and getting close to the 3 hour mark is a psychological marker that is hard to allow.

By your logic, it's ok for battery life to decrease a certain amount, as long as performance rapidly rises. So if someone manages to cram a CRAY (or some other super powerful computer...I don't know who's on top now) into a MBP case and gets it to go for 10 minutes before the battery dies, that's an improvement?

No of course not. But I'd say 3 hours of battery life is acceptable for the power you get. If it is not enough for some people, just wait for Merom. It will be about 30% faster and will be 20% more power efficient.
If you ask me though, Apple should've went with the old thickness, put in a DL-Superdrive and an even bigger battery to gain 4 hours now and 5 with Merom. But we all know what they chose to do. ;)

[sel1965]

Fair enough. But people have grown to expect close to 4 hours or more out of their PBs, and getting close to the 3 hour mark is a psychological marker that is hard to allow.

By your logic, it's ok for battery life to decrease a certain amount, as long as performance rapidly rises. So if someone manages to cram a CRAY (or some other super powerful computer...I don't know who's on top now) into a MBP case and gets it to go for 10 minutes before the battery dies, that's an improvement?
The only way I get 4 hours with my PB is if I walk away and let it sleep for 2 hours after working a couple of hours and then maybe working 2 more.

[nagromme]

I've seen several reviews now (WSJ was one I think) say that battery life is the SAME. As in, within just a couple minutes of the PowerBook G4 in similar testing.

Also, that testing is not always done with wireless off, screen brightness backed off, and other things one can do that affect battery life.

So I'm not sure where all this "certainty" has come from, that the MacBook Pro has significantly worse battery life than the PowerBook.

[geiger167]

Lol I was lucky to get a hour and a half battery life on my HP laptop so 3 1/2 hours sounds good to me.

As for the built in isight if someone wants to hack my machine a watch me scratching my arse for hours bring it on lol, I dont work for the C.I.A or engage in perversions in front of it that warrant a sinister Orwellian disposition that seems to be the norm nowadays (and the little light comes on when its on lol)

My new intel Imac is running like a dream, better than my last G5, better than my top of the range windows machine (by a considerable margin) and better than the Vista machine I thought it would be a laugh to set up in the last week from the BETA which has caused me more headaches than any operating systems EVER !!!

Oh and the kids like squishing there faces in photobooth as well lol:)

[weg]

But Stevie promised us the Mactels would use less power and have better battery life. NOT! Get off the crack Stevorino the damn Intel chips pull 40% more power. Did he even look at the dual core G4's that pull only 25 watts power versus 85 for the Intel dual core? What a dumbass Jobs is.

In terms of power per instruction per second, Steve definitely didn't lie to us. If you use Photoshop on a G4 on the road, you definitely need the 4-5 hours of battery life to get some work done ;-)

[weg]

and better than the Vista machine I thought it would be a laugh to set up in the last week from the BETA which has caused me more headaches than any operating systems EVER !!!


It may suprise you, but there's a reason why they call it a BETA ;-)

[YoNeX]

Yeah, my work place doesn't allow cameras of any kind, let alone the power of the isight. So, -100 from the price of the MBP and take off the camera. That will make me very happy :)

[Surreal]

Anybody know if 2GB modules are coming anytime soon? (like...a few months)

and, has anyone spotted a FW800 expresscard34 ?

[DTphonehome]

Yeah, my work place doesn't allow cameras of any kind, let alone the power of the isight. So, -100 from the price of the MBP and take off the camera. That will make me very happy :)

FYI, the camera and noncamera versions of the Treo are the same price.

[DTphonehome]

The only way I get 4 hours with my PB is if I walk away and let it sleep for 2 hours after working a couple of hours and then maybe working 2 more.

Then you need a new battery. I was amazed at the difference it makes. Over time you don't realize how much life is lost, but when you get it all back, WOW.

[DTphonehome]

No of course not. But I'd say 3 hours of battery life is acceptable for the power you get. If it is not enough for some people, just wait for Merom. It will be about 30% faster and will be 20% more power efficient.
If you ask me though, Apple should've went with the old thickness, put in a DL-Superdrive and an even bigger battery to gain 4 hours now and 5 with Merom.

I agree! I didn't think the old thickness was so bad, and the new thickness is a major improvement. But maybe they wanted to go back to the "1" thin" mantra from the TiBook days.

[e-clipse]

Well.....upon reading this thread earlier, I began to wonder about other laptops battery life, but did not investigate.

I left for my 6pm social science class and noticed a guy working on a Dell Inspiron..blah blah model in class. He was strictly confined to a small stationary desk pressed against a wall with an outlet. I asked him what his battery life was. He did not seem to want to answer. I asked him again. He then said, " This laptop usually gets around 2 hours of battery life, and that is why I am crammed up against this wall." I told him about this thread and Apple's Macbook Pro battery life, and he seemed a little angry.

Yeah, I did attack his Dell, not meaning to,....but oh well. The only time I am going to use a Macbook Pro unplugged, is in a school library. Even in the librbary, there are task desk cubbies with outlets avaliable. :)

[Kaiser Phoenix]

[QUOTE=motulist]I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.

QUOTE]

1) iSight - Also you cant change the angle or direction of the cam so its abit annoying as well.
2) Size - Its annoying coz many bags that was bought for my G4PB wont fit because of that extra bit longer now!!!
3) No modem built in - Dont need modem
4) No built in tv output - Agree
5) mag safe fall out - It was quite tough actually
6) intel chip - Agreed
7) battery life? - Yeah battery life is crap IMHO
8) Macbook Pro - Agreed

[shokunin]

All the pc makers are going with AMD. It was when Dell announced they were changing half their production to AMD that Intel, seeing their marketshare go out the window, began putting the full court press on Apple making outrageous promises with their chip roadmap.

Uh? Link please... since when has dell announced production machines with AMD? Dell may sell AMD chips as "parts" but have never formally announced systems with AMD processors.

There are plenty of rumors going around, but nothing on an official AMD campaign by Dell. I doubt AMD could supply 50% of Dell's volume, they don't have enough fabs to cut enough wafers.

[Kelvin]

My 1.83GHz MBP runs about 3 hours with varying degrees of screenbright (usually about 50% is as bright as my (very) old powerbook).

Now, 3 hours isn't spectacular, but consider this: I compiled fink, fink commander, AND ethereal from source in one sitting and had enough time to play around with my network. Total all three compile from sources took about 2 hours (all while doing moderate powerpoint and websurfing in the foreground). I dare any powerbook user to try this. I bet you won't have enough battery time to finish fink and fink commander running in the fore.

Point being, performance per watt is so great that it doesn't even matter that you get less time on a bigger battery. You get MORE work done. Seriously, it's night and day vs my G5; this thing even screams past my 3GHz P4 at work.

My only issue is that it seems to use more RAM than my comparable desktops. I only have a 5400RPM HD and it is painful watching as everything grinds while the VM is paging and menumeters says my CPU is sitting at 7%/5%.




EDIT: And for the love of Bob, stop using the computer while nude.
Hey, some people use the computer exclusively while nude... :)

[thunng8]

No of course not. But I'd say 3 hours of battery life is acceptable for the power you get. If it is not enough for some people, just wait for Merom. It will be about 30% faster and will be 20% more power efficient.
If you ask me though, Apple should've went with the old thickness, put in a DL-Superdrive and an even bigger battery to gain 4 hours now and 5 with Merom. But we all know what they chose to do. ;)

Where did you get the 30% faster and 20% more power efficient from?

30% faster is speculation and 20% more power efficient seems wrong since Intel have speced Merom with higher TDP numbers than Yonah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Next_Generation_Microarchitecture

"Merom, the mobile variant, is listed at 35 watts TDP for standard versions and 5 watts TDP for Ultra Low Voltage (ULV) versions."

BTW, Yonah is specced at 31W for standard version

[Diatribe]

Where did you get the 30% faster and 20% more power efficient from?

30% faster is speculation and 20% more power efficient seems wrong since Intel have speced Merom with higher TDP numbers than Yonah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Next_Generation_Microarchitecture

"Merom, the mobile variant, is listed at 35 watts TDP for standard versions and 5 watts TDP for Ultra Low Voltage (ULV) versions."

BTW, Yonah is specced at 31W for standard version

Good question. I read that recently. I'll try to digg it up. But the one thing I know for sure is that Merom uses more efficient power saving than Yonah.

[Bobajobbob]

I still don't knwo why they didnt call it the PowerMacBook.

After reading the review I'm gonna get me a Dell :)






Joke

[janstett]

I personally don't like the new Macbook Pro, here's why:

1) iSight - I don't feel secure with a camera always pointed at my face
2) size - it's wider and deeper (and insignificantly thinner)
3) no modem built in - I can't tell you how many times I've been away from home and the built in modem came in super handy
4) no built in tv output - I output to tv a lot, at home and away
5) mag safe fall out - I like to throw my laptop around and have it in weird places and angles
6) intel chip - while it may turn out to be good in the long run, right now all it means is most apps will run much slower and some may not work at all
7) battery life? - It's still not conclusive, but it looks like the battery life is less
8) Macbook Pro - the name is terrible and part of what you're buying when you buy a high end product is status, and the "Macbook Pro" does not sound like a high end product that serious cash was dropped on.


I own a MBP 2.0 GHz, here's my answer as someone who has several hours of seat time with one.

(1) I suppose if you're paranoid, many web cams come with a physical shutter, Apple should have added one.
(2) I'd rather see Apple get serious about the 12" ultraportables where they are WAAAAAY behind; for a 15" the MBP is fine, and it is slightly SMALLER than the PB.
(3) Modem? I've been to Germany, Japan (twice), and South Korea in the past year. Most urban places and hotels offer wifi. Modem access is dead. Who maintains a dial up account any more? And when travelling, you don't want to accidentally plug into a digital line and fry your modem/computer. Good riddance modem.
(4) TV out. Eh, maybe, you can buy an adapter. I care about TV out too, but I have a new HDTV with VGA/DVI/HDMI in so I am more than happy with the TV out of the MBP. Also happy with the digital SPDIF output so I can hear Dolby Digital 5.1 on my DVDs.
(5) The mag safe isn't flimsy. I have had the MBP in some cramped quarters/angles and the plug has been fine. And I've already saved myself tripping over it 2 or 3 times.
(6) Yes, short term some things won't work or will be slow. I will suffer for a few months and then the tide will come in and I'll be sitting pretty. In the instances where I've gotten native applications (like Handbrake) the MBP has D-E-S-T-R-O-Y-E-D my Mac Mini. And most other apps run well enough that I can wait for native apps. Of course that won't apply to all users.
(7) The battery life seems pretty good so far for me (around 3.5 hours but all "what if" testing not real usage yet). Again it gets destroyed by a real ultraportable like my Thinkpad X41 (8+ hours, all day computing on one charge), so I'm not worried about a small +/- versus the 15" PB.
(8) What's in a name? A rose by any other name, etc etc. The name is awkward but that ranks around a 0.01 on a scale of 1/10.

[nagromme]

Just a reminder--don't forget to consider/report the following in battery tests you make:

* Airport on?

* BT on?

* Keys lit? (they can easily pop on if you go away and turn out the lights without disabling the backlight option)

* Optical mouse, USB modem, iPod, iSight etc. drawing power?

* Screen brightness (most people remember this--but it seems like half or less is what most laptops would call very bright)

* Speaker volume (if you're testing movie/music play)

* Are you testing while Spotlight is still indexing and running your HD?

* Have you calibrated, so you know you were truly starting from full charge?

* Which rpm HD are you using?

* And of course: what Ghz model? (and how much RAM?)

[budugu]

My 1.83GHz MBP runs about 3 hours with varying degrees of screenbright (usually about 50% is as bright as my (very) old powerbook).

Now, 3 hours isn't spectacular, but consider this: I compiled fink, fink commander, AND ethereal from source in one sitting and had enough time to play around with my network. Total all three compile from sources took about 2 hours (all while doing moderate powerpoint and websurfing in the foreground). I dare any powerbook user to try this. I bet you won't have enough battery time to finish fink and fink commander running in the fore.

Point being, performance per watt is so great that it doesn't even matter that you get less time on a bigger battery. You get MORE work done. Seriously, it's night and day vs my G5; this thing even screams past my 3GHz P4 at work.


I have 2 words for you apple apologist! period. WTF? the new measure of battery life = work done? If the battery life stinks it stinks ... just accept it and move on. Lets say you donot have to compile fink every day.. you want to watch a couple of movies on a long haul flight (see the movie in FF mode? - I see all the movie in a short time because the new ATI x1600 can pump so many pixels to your screen :confused: ) ... need to edit presentation... or some thing else that is not computationaly intensive but actually time consuming... which is what most people do ... grow up ... Apple has a stupid marketing team that can think of all sorts of crap to make the product look good and atleast get paid! :rolleyes:

[ericschmerick]

If the battery life stinks it stinks ... just accept it and move on.

Gimme a break. 3+ hrs with wifi and doing lots of work, nearly 5 hrs in battery max mode. That's really not bad. The last Dell I had was 3 hours TOPS, no matter what I did.

More importantly, my PB G4 1.25 has EXACTLY THE SAME BATTERY LIFE. Let me say again - the MBP 2.0 I have sitting on my desk right next to the 1.25G4 sitting on my desk _both have the same batter life_ So what is the big deal here?

[budugu]

Gimme a break. 3+ hrs with wifi and doing lots of work, nearly 5 hrs in battery max mode. That's really not bad. The last Dell I had was 3 hours TOPS, no matter what I did.

More importantly, my PB G4 1.25 has EXACTLY THE SAME BATTERY LIFE. Let me say again - the MBP 2.0 I have sitting on my desk right next to the 1.25G4 sitting on my desk _both have the same batter life_ So what is the big deal here?

Forget all the spin... if apple marketing team could not find a decent wrapper so that they can put the battery life of a "notebook" on their website ... that just speaks for itself. (when they actually touted the battery life of their powerbooks so much). Well all i can say is think with out prejudice!

[chaos86]

what is more of a security issue for a normal user (i.e. not a camera-free-zone user)?

1) that someone could discreetly, without doing any suspicious looking damage, take apart your MBP, modify the circuitry of your isight AND put a trojan on your machine so that they could remotely activate your isight and watch you stare at your screen, maybe even pick your nose or pop a zit in your ichat mirror? honestly what do you do, hold up bank statements in front of your screen?

2) that someone could come upon your MBP, target disk it, and clone your drive. that way they could have access to all your files, unless you run filevault, in which case they would have to learn your user or root password (much easier, in my opinion, than taking apart an MBP and rewiring the isight AND installing a trojan).

i dont know why nobody has a problem with the lack of security in target disk mode, but they freak out about a camera thats almost impossible to hack.

[notjustjay]

they could remotely activate your isight and watch you stare at your screen, maybe even pick your nose

I welcome, with open.. er.. fingers? .. any hacker who wants to watch me do that at work all day :D

(Good thing I work in that camera free zone, eh? :p )

[upperblue79]

For anyone upset on the decision to remove s-video out and the modem: yes you will find people who still need dial-up and yes you will find people who don't have a new tv with dvi/hdmi, but that is why apple has external modem and video out adapters. Those technologies are going away and apple at some point has to remove them. Don't forget that apple removed the floppy drive from all their computers way before the pc world, but it was something that all computer companies ended up doing. Personally I'm happy that apple isn't afraid to be the first to go onto new and better technologies, that is why so many people love the company, and removing dated technology is unfortunately inevitable.

[nagromme]

People who say the MBP has terrible battery life because Apple's site doesn't list the life are using bad logic. That would hardly be an effective cover-up: people KNOW the info's not there. Apple hasn't "gotten away with" anything.

The ACTUAL battery life is what is relevant--and apparently it's in the same league as the much-slower machine it replaces, AND it's not nearly 2 inches thick like competing options are.

More tests will be needed to reach a real consensus.

But there's no way to say yet WHY the specs aren't on Apple's site. The most obvious reason: their tests weren't done yet because the power-management software wasn't final yet. Or because some physical component wasn't finalized yet. Battery life results may soon appear on Apple.com.

Yes, an evil (but stupid) cover-up is possible--but it's irrational to ASSUME one.

Facts first, then judge. That's my suggestion.

[ppnkg]

The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool. Certainly not in others (although I must make a point here about the sheer cretinism of security rules in many places, THIS is the real problem, that nobody does anything to object to these rules.)

On the other hand, this is only the first model. The camera could be made optional in the future.

[manu chao]

My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

Is the battery the same size as the original one that came with your Powerbook? Otherwise you are profiting from the advances in battery technology that Apple has choosen not to use for longer autonomy but higher performance, brighter screens etc. .

[janstett]

The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool.

I do want to point out something that those who don't have a machine with iSight built in (it may be just the MBP but I assume the iMacs w/ iSight do it to).

When you first set up OSX, it will take your picture and use that as your logon avatar. Nice touch.

[lvnmacs]

I was so ready to upgrade my 1.67PPC PB to a MBP! The performance and other add ons are great. However, I think I'm going to wait a little longer before I dump $2500.00 on a new note book:rolleyes:

[chaos86]

i just had a thought:

one of the coolest looking things they show off at nearly every macworld or WWDC has been the isight/ichat with multiple users. it seems like they put a lot of time and money into it and yet relatively few people have bought an isight camera. i think their goal is to get an isight into _every_ mac like they got ichat into every mac, so that we all look so cool video conferencing and our windows friends get jealous.

[notjustjay]

i think their goal is to get an isight into _every_ mac like they got ichat into every mac, so that we all look so cool video conferencing and our windows friends get jealous.

I think that's exactly what they're up to.

Now if only they'd lower the price of the regular iSight so the rest of us can get them too. $189 Cdn for a webcam is waaaay too much.

[Surreal]

So, i will have enough money in hand--and credit--to buy a macbook pro in a month. i was sad about no FW800...then i was alright because expresscard/34 seemed a fine answer. now firewire 800 expresscards are coming, but only in 54...daggumit.

if there are no 34 modules available when i buy, i may have to wait. and this is not a moot point since i will also buy a Fireface 800 with the computer and i don't want my interface and my hard disk on the same bus.

[chameleon]

I haven't done an in depth analysis, and I'm not a Mac "Know It All".

I did, however, play with a 2Ghz MBP with 1Gb of RAM at the Albany Apple Store today, and it was fast. Faster than any Mac I've played with. I was able to compare it head-to-head with one of the new Core Duo Mac Mini's (1.66Ghz + 512Mb RAM, I believe), and the Macbook Pro felt twice as fast.

Like I said, these aren't technical specs and I'm far from a benchmark expert, but perception is what really matters, right? My perception was that this laptop was very fast.

[janstett]

I think I already mentioned this ad-hoc benchmark, but in another thread; so it bears repeating here.

One of many tasks I have been using my Mini for is ripping DVDs for use on my iPod. When I got my MBP, I wanted to see how it would fare against the Mini.

The test: Ripping DVDs (Drawn Together Season 1) to iPod Video using Handbrake (which now has a universal binary). 2 pass encoding down to 320x240.

The machines:
(1) Mac Mini G4 1.42 GHz, 1GB RAM
(2) MacBook Pro Intel Duo 2.0 GHz, 1GB RAM

The results:

The Mini averaged between 10-15 frames per second during encoding.
The MacBook Pro averaged between 60-75 frames per second during encoding.

It wasn't even close. Hopefully this is a harbinger of what lies ahead.

[powerbook911]

The machines:
(1) Mac Mini G4 1.42 GHz, 1GB RAM
(2) MacBook Pro Intel Duo 2.0 GHz, 1GB RAM

The results:

The Mini averaged between 10-15 frames per second during encoding.
The MacBook Pro averaged between 60-75 frames per second during encoding.

It wasn't even close. Hopefully this is a harbinger of what lies ahead.

Were you encoding regular MPEG4, or H264?

[pgre]

The fact is, IBM doesn't want to BE in the personal computer processor market. It's more trouble than it's worth to them. They'd rather make gaming chips (consoles are EXPECTED to sell at a loss, remember) and server chips.

Intel, on the other hand, actually WANTS to make personal computer processors. And wants to work with Apple too.

I think the reality is both companies just want to make money..

[roxnadz]

I'm not saying the Macbook Pro is bad, if anyone wants to buy one for me I'd gladly accept it. ;) What I'm trying to do here is add a voice of reason. Given the forum we're in it's very easy for people to accept a biased version of reality. Here's reality as I see it. The Macbook Pro is a great machine with lots and lots of potential. At the moment though, it is clearly a first gen machine that needs some kinks worked out.

I agree 100% with this.

I also believe Apple is moving in the right direction with the switch to Intel. Perhaps AMD could have done it, perhaps not. We'll never know. However, we DO know that Apple is far better poised to bring the goods than they ever were with the G4.

Hell, that's how I felt with the 1.67GHz 17" Powerbook (happily will take one if someone would buy me one, which they did :D) Anybody who's real with themselves will know that the "bump" from 1.5GHz (and it's really stretching it to call it that) was pretty sad. It was not hard at all for me to sit on my wallet. But I know that there is no question that my next laptop purchase will be a MacBook Pro, and the only reasons I didn't go with a Rev A is due to the universal binary issues (I run a lot of digital audio workstation apps - whose vendors are (typically) slow in getting out updates) and the fact that it was Rev A (though, if you think about it, now that MBPs are in general circulation, the only really big problems so far have been the buzzing issues that some people have come across - which to me signifies one of the better Rev A rollouts of an Apple product.)

Apple played it smart by not getting all crazy about the battery life...how could it possibly know without any real-world test results outside its own labs? If Apple had said "4 hours!" and the MBP only ran 3:30, then every hater in the universe would be calling for a whaaaaambulance to carry The Steve's severed head to the landfill. The truth was, it was never going to be this spectacular number. The notebooks that are getting 6, 7 and 8 hours of battery life are a lot lighter, a lot less equipped and run at a lot lower speed than the MBP. Additionally, they're either running Windows or an OS that isn't OSX, which doesn't have to determine at program launch whether an app has been compiled for one processor architecture or another, and based on that determination, doesn't have to spawn a separate process which does nothing but translate code.

I'm surprised at both the performance and battery life results. It only means they can get better. As more UBs are compiled, there's less of a reliance on Rosetta, which means a smaller memory footprint, which means less disk paging which eventually means better battery life. Additionally, once Rosetta is out of the equation, the performance numbers should start going through the roof. You see that already...look at Doom3. You needed a freakin G5 to run that program before. Now it cooks on the Intel.

Those of you who are moaning about a first-gen product need to relax and get your priorities straight. Not to sound like a fanboy ('cuz I'm not - I gave Apple much heat on the "nudge" they called an upgrade on the Powerbook) but this really is a good move on Apple's part. And the MBP is a big home run in my eyes...it could have been a LOT worse, and I know you know what I mean. Hell, there are programs that aren't even supposed to run under Rosetta that indeed are! (Cubase SX, for one) That's amazing. And the thing is, it's only going to get better as time goes on.

Just my nickel.

[roxnadz]

I think the reality is both companies just want to make money..

And thusly, each know what side their bread is buttered on, then, don't they?

Nothing wrong with that. More money means more Apple customers win.

[roxnadz]

I was so ready to upgrade my 1.67PPC PB to a MBP! The performance and other add ons are great. However, I think I'm going to wait a little longer before I dump $2500.00 on a new note book:rolleyes:

Dude, you should totally wait. You have the top of the line PPC notebook! :D $2500 is going to be a bit of a waste, that's another reason why I'm going Rev B.

[roxnadz]

The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool. Certainly not in others (although I must make a point here about the sheer cretinism of security rules in many places, THIS is the real problem, that nobody does anything to object to these rules.)

On the other hand, this is only the first model. The camera could be made optional in the future.

I suspect that's what will happen. Apple would be crazy to lose the government and high-security sector to PCs just because of a stupid camera. I suspect that the Rev Bs will offer this as a CTO.

[roxnadz]

My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

Of course, it only runs anywhere from .3 to .4x as fast as a MBP.

[janstett]

Were you encoding regular MPEG4, or H264?

Regular MPEG-4. I'm willing to repeat the test with H.264 if anybody is curious.