Video iPod with 4 Inch Screen? iTunes Movies?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret maintains (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0603videoipod.html) that a true video iPod is in the works and claims to have further details on the upcoming device.

Contrary to their previous report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060209095419.shtml) on a Touch-screen Video iPod, ThinkSecret now reports that the upcoming Video iPod will sport a 4" screen with a 1/4" border and retain similar dimensions as previous iPods. Reportedly, the 4" design has been settled on over the previously mentioned 3.5" design.

The true Video iPod is expected to debut alongside a new movie download service (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0603movies.html) from Apple. Despite recent efforts by Apple to offer feature-film downloads, ThinkSecret states (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0603movies.html) that there are a number of obstacles remaining. Most notably is Steve Jobs desire to keep the pay-to-own model consistent with Movie downloads. The movie industry, however, is firmly settled on a subscription-based model.

Finally, the rumor site reveals that the Movie Download Survey (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060301232604.shtml) speculated to come from Apple, was instead commissioned by Starz Entertainment Group and sent to current Vongo customers.

[Spanky Deluxe]

Cool! This sounds promising. And it makes sense to release it at the same time as an iTMS movie download service.

[magid]

Any timeframe on this new ipod?

Nevermind that, just checked the TS page. Anywho, do you guys think that an 80gb version is in the works?

[Atlasland]

Birthday time - 1/4/06

[mrgreen4242]

I wonder if this was supposed to be the announcement for last Tuesday, but the movie deal held them up longer than they had expected? Would explain the lameness of the event. :/

If they put a hi-res 4" touchscreen on a 5g iPod both it better have PDA feature and wireless internet options. Would be such a waste otherwise.

[macdreamer]

I wonder how it will affect battery life.

[JDOG_]

I don't know, it seems like from these articles, Jobs wants people to buy movies, but at probably at least $4 a piece I'd much rather go for a subscription model...like netflix, there is something to be said about going through a stack of movies every month without actually buying them.

I think most consumers would prefer to watch many movies without owning them. So for something like that, a subscription model would be fantastic.

What do you guys think? 3 movies you keep for $12 or more...compared to $15 for unlimited viewing/take-it-with you/timestamped videos....I'm just guessing on the price by the way, but it seems like it would be quite a bit more than $1.99 (like music videos) and hopefully less than $10 a piece.

:confused:

[freeny]

Any timeframe on this new ipod?

The article says Late March or early April.

Word on the street is there is a Dutch guy who is already working on a photoshoped leaked image....

[twoodcc]

sounds great to me. can't wait til this thing comes out

[Spanky Deluxe]

If they put a hi-res 4" touchscreen on a 5g iPod both it better have PDA feature and wireless internet options. Would be such a waste otherwise.

I dunno. That would turn it into more of a Tablet Mac which would require lots of extra software. Apple likes to keep things simple. I mean not a single iPod has radio functionality or sound recording by default. These things need after market accessories and with those, well, how long did it take for a radio add on?

If Apple release a full screen iPod video then it'll do exactly what it says on the tin. No more, no less. Full screen video.


Edit: The article says Late March or early April.

{cough} 30th anniversary {cough}

[arn]

can someone mock up a 4" screen with 1/4" border on the current 5G iPod Form factor?

arn

[nagromme]

Hmmm.... I wondered why that Flickr spy photo showed a 4" screen, when the previous rumors had said 3.5". Why wouldn't the "Faker" have followed the 3.5" rumors? :p

(No, I don't really think the photo was real... nor fake. I admit I don't know! We do of course know that the video "proof" that followed was a hoax itself. Someone should measure the Flickr photo's screen though :D )

Timing based on movie download agreements makes sense to me.

Could be true.

[crees!]

The article says Late March or early April.

It also said it's dependant on the deal. So no deal, no iPod.

[JtheLemur]

Hmm - I'd prefer a subscription model for movies. I watch a lot of movies and there's no way I'd "test the water" for $10-$12 dollars per movie. With a $9.99 (or even $14.99) model, that allowed for unlimited downloads, I'd be a happy camper!

[nagromme]

can someone mock up a 4" screen with 1/4" border on the current 5G iPod Form factor?

arn
I think it was done about 10 times last week :D (But measuring exactly and comparing would be interesting.)

[Bubbasteve]

I'm really interested on the iTunes Movie Store... would this subscription based downloads be yours to own or would they remain on your computer for a certain number of days/weeks?

[arn]

btw, I also think a subscription model is OK with movies. I think the biggest issue with subscription vs non-subscrip is that when you quit the service, you lose your library. But losing your subscription Movie library is a bit less of a big deal, since I don't mind buying DVD's (bluray, HDDVD) of stuff I really like and want to keep.

arn

[Dr. Dastardly]

I think Steve might bite off more than he can chew with a pay per own service for movies. The movie industry will never allow such a thing. They would be insistant that the movies expire over a period of time.

Not that it wouldn't be hacked four hours before it was released.

[arn]

I'm really interested on the iTunes Movie Store... would this subscription based downloads be yours to own or would they remain on your computer for a certain number of days/weeks?

Subscription based typically means that you can watch the movies while you are a subscriber. But when you let your subscription lapse, you can't watch the movies anymore.

arn

[XIII]

I would much prefer the once pay, always own.

However, this has me really excited. Unfortunately, haven't ThinkSecret been off recently? I want this iPod a lot. :)

[nagromme]

btw, I also think a subscription model is OK with movies.
Agreed. For movies (NOT music), I like subscription better than Steve's vision. I don't event want to have to STORE movie files long term. DVDs (or Blu-Ray!) are how I want to own movies and TV series. And I rarely want to own them anyway. Music I listen to again and again, but movies only occasionally.

If these reports are true, I hope Steve caves. Just so long as the subscription is cheap enough to be worth not owning the files. And just so long as it (eventually) can match Netflix's 55,000 titles. (Because I won't want to pay Netflix $10/month AND iTunes $10/month, so I'll stick with the selection over the convenience/speed.)


"Not being first is not their style"

Yes it is. Apple's often first, but that's not their key strength. Look at the iPod. Their strength is in being BEST and EASIEST.

[crees!]

btw, I also think a subscription model is OK with movies. I think the biggest issue with subscription vs non-subscrip is that when you quit the service, you lose your library. But losing your subscription Movie library is a bit less of a big deal, since I don't mind buying DVD's (bluray, HDDVD) of stuff I really like and want to keep.

arn

True.. like Blockbuster. You rent the movies and then return them. In this case deleted from your HD. I figure there would be the subscription service and then the option to buy it and be able to burn it to DVD. But you could only burn if you purchased that movie.

[LostPacket]

I'm not convinced about the usability of a touch screen scroll wheel. I'd rather they put a physical one on the back so you can control it with your index finger. It would definitely keep you from smudging up the screen.

And I agree that a subsription based model would be better. I don't watch the same movie nearly as many times as I do a song.

[ScottB]

Birthday time - 1/4/06
Cool a 4 inch screen isn't that bad but I can't say I'm interested in a movie store. But presumably this blows the exspected April 1st iBook updates out of the water?

[Chaszmyr]

A subscription based service is a total scam. What they industry is really hoping for, is that you'll use the subscription based service to watch movies you don't care much about, and then will go out and buy your favorite movies on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in addition to paying the subscription fee. The only customers that would benefit from such a model are those who enjoy watching a plethora of lousy movies.

[freeny]

Id go for both a subscription and a one time purchase. A subscription to check out new stuff I havent seen and the one time pay for movies id like to keep.

[Chaszmyr]

Cool a 4 inch screen isn't that bad, but presumably this blows the exspected April 1st iBook updates out of the water?


What expected april 1st iBook updates? lol. iBook updates are expected, but we have no reason to believe April 1

[dvrmstrng]

Hey everyone....first time user here.

Looking for everyones opinion

I just sold a MINI and a 4G 20 gig Ipod and was planning on going out and getting a 30 gig 5G ipod. After hearing all this news of the new "true video" Ipod that may be out as soon as April i'm weary about spending the money on the current video Ipod.

Opinions

Thanks everyone

[Porchland]

Seems to me that the whopping size of a 90-minute movie at even 640x480 quality would make it impractical to keep more than a handful of films on your hard drive at one time anyway.

Doesn't the Netflix x-movies-at-a-time model make more sense from the perspective of conserving drive space?

[freeny]

Hey everyone....first time user here.

Looking for everyones opinion

I just sold a MINI and a 4G 20 gig Ipod and was planning on going out and getting a 30 gig 5G ipod. After hearing all this news of the new "true video" Ipod that may be out as soon as April i'm weary about spending the money on the current video Ipod.

Opinions

Thanks everyone
Remember, This site is based mostly on "Rumors". Nobody really knows anything. Just use your best judgement. If you can wait, wait. But dont be surprised if it doesnt happen.

[LostPacket]

A subscription based service is a total scam. ... The only customers that would benefit from such a model are those who enjoy watching a plethora of lousy movies.

It depends on how much the service would cost. If it's more than $15/month, then that would suck. Otherwise I'd like a "watch for 24 hours" system that only costs $1-$2/movie. I don't watch nearly that many movies in a month, especially on anything as small as a Video iPod.

[jruc4871]

Cool a 4 inch screen isn't that bad but I can't say I'm interested in a movie store. But presumably this blows the exspected April 1st iBook updates out of the water?

They've been known to release multiple products on the same day before.

[age234]

can someone mock up a 4" screen with 1/4" border on the current 5G iPod Form factor?
Are you kidding?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/tylerdykstra/103357149_ebe5a6a8c7.jpg

Here's one that someone posted when that photo was percieved to be real (which, while it may not have been REAL, it now seems it was ACCURATE):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/tylerdykstra/6gui.jpg

[arn]

Remember, This site is based mostly on "Rumors". Nobody really knows anything. Just use your best judgement. If you can wait, wait. But dont be surprised if it doesnt happen.

It's always a balance of current need vs how much you'd kick yourself if a video iPod came out in April. :)

If it makes any difference, I would speculate a Video iPod would be a high end device rather than replacing the current iPods. Maybe the current 5G iPod would remain at a lower or same price point while the full-video iPod might be top end.

A shame, since Apple finally has conslidated the iPod line (no more "photo" vs non photo), but I suspect a full touch-screen iPod would have to cost more.


arn

[Max on Macs]

That's awesome. While I don't think the video iPod will be as popular as the regular iPod and nano and shuffle, I do think there is demand for it. I know damn well I'd take one. I will use my 5G iPod most of the time, but the iPod video will be there for the train and flying - times when I'm not doing anything else at the same time. I'm sure a lot of other people could say the same.

As for the movies download system, I am on Jobs side. I hate subscription based music and video schemes entirely. Why? Because I'll buy a film that I think looks good and I'll watch it whenever I'm in the mood for that particular flight, whether it be the same day, or when I'm on a plane with an 8 hour flight six or so months later. I don't want to have a limit to the amount of times I can watch a film, or someone telling me I have to watch it by such a such a date. And I certainly don't want to be paying each month for X number of film rentals when I might only want one or two films one month and ten or more another.

[arn]

Are you kidding?


I wasn't kidding. I know about the previous mockups... but is that really a 4" screen with a 1/4" border on a 5G iPod?

arn

[dvrmstrng]

yeah just based on what you guys have just said, i believe ill get the current video ipod. I dont have the money, or the use for a handheld device that holds tons of feature length movies. I'll never have any time to watch them. I need a music player, not a movie player.

Thanks

[512ke]

Dumb question but... how much HD space does a downloaded movie take?

(I'm obviously not a pirate.) :)

Personally I love to own my music. I even prefer buying the CD's to downloading.

But I very rarely wanna watch a movie twice (especially movies made these days).

Subscription service or pay per view would be great.

[dvrmstrng]

I'd say depending on quality anywhere from 650megs to 1.5 gig based on length....king kong would be like 2 gig

[sishaw]

Hey everyone....first time user here.

Looking for everyones opinion

I just sold a MINI and a 4G 20 gig Ipod and was planning on going out and getting a 30 gig 5G ipod. After hearing all this news of the new "true video" Ipod that may be out as soon as April i'm weary about spending the money on the current video Ipod.

Opinions

Thanks everyone

I don't know what's going to happen in April, but I wouldn't buy an Apple product until we find out if there's going to be a special product announcement event for their 30th anniversary. If so, I would hold off.

[Kirbdog]

This is where we will see the Disney-Pixar merger bloom. With Jobs on the Disney board with Iger we know where the first content deal will come from.

[nagromme]

I'm not convinced about the usability of a touch screen scroll wheel.
It would have its disadvantages (and massive cool factor) but I do think would keep the regular music-centric iPod (at least the 30) as well. The full-screen one would be a high-end option for those who wanted it. It might one day become the entire line-up, but it might just remain the video-centric model while the main iPod stays music-centric with (in some ways like tactile feedback) better controls.


A subscription based service is a total scam. What they industry is really hoping for, is that you'll use the subscription based service to watch movies you don't care much about, and then will go out and buy your favorite movies on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in addition to paying the subscription fee.
That's what almost everyone already does! :)

You rent movies for low-cost viewing of a LOT of different titles. Then you also buy the ones you really want to watch many times. And when you buy, you don't get your previous $4 rental or $7 movie ticket price back.

[dvrmstrng]

may be a rediculous question...whens the anniversary

[rosalindavenue]

Agreed. For movies (NOT music), I like subscription better than Steve's vision. I don't event want to have to STORE movie files long term..

This is absolutely right. Almost no one has the hard drive space to store even five or ten movies. The rumor from late last year about streaming (a la the incredible front row trailer streaming) seems like the best way to go on this issue.

[JamesPsyKocsis]

This is cool for iPods (as long as battery life is increased and hard drive is increased in size). What about those of us that want to view the flicks on a home entertainment system? What will the quality be like? It would be pretty lame to watch iPod-quality video with 2 channel audio on a larger screen or projector and 5.1 audio system.

[boncellis]

Subscription based typically means that you can watch the movies while you are a subscriber. But when you let your subscription lapse, you can't watch the movies anymore.

arn

Am I off base in thinking that the success of the iTMS hinges largely on its unique DRM model? Where iTMS users own copies of their data, the languishing competition went into this arena thinking they could outsmart Apple by providing a more financially efficient service, but without considering the permanence and simplicity that consumers desire, and are willing to pay for. I believe the success of these competitors speaks to their shortsightedness.

I would stipulate that the difference between the short media currently offered by the iTMS and full length feature films is enough to revisit the iTMS model. However, I tend to concur with Mr. Jobs with respect to maintaining consistency within the iTMS. Though not the most cost effective to the consumer when considering the price per instances viewed of a full length film, the desire for the simplicity and permanence of ownership among consumers, I believe, remains. Function, simplicity and style--it's what Apple is all about.

[freeny]

may be a rediculous question...whens the anniversary
April 1st

[arn]

April 1st

Which is a Saturday, for what it's worth.

arn

[Twenty1]

With respect to ThinkSecret, I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's obvious a full screen iPod is the next step in iPod development and the recent patent filings seem to confirm this.

Don't get me wrong, rumor sites are all well and good (and obviously I'm posting on one, so hey :) ), but it is annoying when the rumor sites quote "reliable" sources who give nothing more than vague and general information.

(stepping off the soap-box...)

I think the subscription model for video's makes a lot of sense. Customers are used to renting movies. Netflix's and Blockbuster are proving a monthly subscription can work well.

My biggest concern I would have is that iTunes users (those less tech savy) would not truly understand the difference between their "rented" movies and purchased music. Imagine an iTunes library full of files that you may or may not own... I'm confident Apple could find a way to differ the two types, but they need to do it in a way that doesn't confuse the consumer.

[narco]

I really hope Apple keeps the current iPod form, just increasing the 3.5" screen to a 4". I like the current iPod line.

Even though a touch screen sounds nice (it's great on my Treo 650), I don't think I'd want it on the iPod. I can see a high-end device made specifically for movies, but when I'm driving or walking around with my iPod in my pocket, the click wheel is really the best method to skip songs with my iPod in my pocket. I remember having all sorts of issues with the 3G touch-sensitive iPod, and everything was fixed for me with the 4G.

If they do come out with a new wide-screen, touch screen iPod, at least lower the price of the current models and bump up the hard drive to 80GB+ and I'll be a happy camper.

Fishes,
narco.

[boncellis]

This is absolutely right. Almost no one has the hard drive space to store even five or ten movies. The rumor from late last year about streaming (a la the incredible front row trailer streaming) seems like the best way to go on this issue.

If I'm not mistaken, the storage allowance of the .Mac services were recently upgraded to 1TB. Is that correct? I always thought this would somehow be related to something like the provision of high(er) quality and longer video content within iTMS.

[vienna]

Wouldn't a subscription (or let's call it what it is - a rental) based system cost Apple much more in terms of bandwidth per dollar as opposed to a buy and own system ?

I can see why the movie studios would not care but it could make it much less attractive to Apple if they are hosting servers pushing out an unlimited number of movie downloads for a limited amount of money.

[narco]

With respect to ThinkSecret, I'll believe it when I see it. I think it's obvious a full screen iPod is the next step in iPod development and the recent patent filings seem to confirm this.

Don't get me wrong, rumor sites are all well and good (and obviously I'm posting on one, so hey :) ), but it is annoying when the rumor sites quote "reliable" sources who give nothing more than vague and general information. \

Well, ThinkSecret has been pretty spot-on with their rumors, so I usually give them and AppleInsider the benefit of the doubt. It is the next logical step, but I think they'd have to have a little bit more info to actually post it on their site. Otherwise, they'd have posts about how Apple plans on using 1GB of RAM standard on all new Macs and iLife '07 will come out sometime in 2007.

Fishes,
narco.

[pale9]

the big tamales in the movie business are just as stupid as their counterparts in the music industry when it comes to marketing over the internet.
it took steve jobs to show these overpaid dudes how to sell their own product. now, the greed in the movie business once again trumps their understanding of how consumers think. they just want to shove their idiotic subscription model down the customers throat, like it or not. i think it all comes down to a severe case of jealosy. they want to prove to themselves that they are also able to come up with good ideas and that jobs was just lucky.

[age234]

I wasn't kidding. I know about the previous mockups... but is that really a 4" screen with a 1/4" border on a 5G iPod?
Oh. I thought you were being festitious. :D

I don't have a 5G iPod, but judging from my 4G, I would feel comfortable saying the mockups are accurate to the story's description.

[nxent]

makes sense, maybe that's why tuesday's product release was weak. i really hope the movie industry comes around with the 'pay to own' system.

[RonR]

I for one would prefer a movie subscription service. As other's have said, music I can listen to over and over, whereas most movies I watch just once. And currently I would just buy a DVD of movies that I want to own. So the subscription plus option to buy would be perfect for me.

The big question is what would the movie format be? I can't imagine anything much less than DVD quality would be viable. Some type of HD format be even better, but then you run into problems with selecting which format (720p, 1080i, etc), time it takes to download, storage space requirements, etc.

Can't wait to see what Steve unveils for the April 1st anniversary...

Ron

[boncellis]

the big tamales in the movie business are just as stupid as their counterparts in the music industry when it comes to marketing over the internet.
it took steve jobs to show these overpaid dudes how to sell their own product. now, the greed in the movie business once again trumps their understanding of how consumers think. they just want to shove their idiotic subscription model down the customers throat, like it or not. i think it all comes down to a severe case of jealosy. they want to prove to themselves that they are also able to come up with good ideas and that jobs was just lucky.

I wholeheartedly concur.

[Avicdar]

Am I off base in thinking that the success of the iTMS hinges largely on its unique DRM model?

I think that is part of it. Most likely though, Apples seamless integration, interface, and the overall 'experience' is what made the ITMS what it is. Apple thought through everything from browsing the songs to getting them onto the iPod. One click purchasing, nice interface, nice price, you own the songs, and the DRM isn't obtrusive.

With regard to movies, however...I believe the subscription model would be best. My thinking here is that it doesn't make sense to keep a movie on your hard drive forever, given that its likely only to be of 'viewable' value on this yet to be announced iPod. It wouldn't be of sufficient resolution to enjoy on a home theatre HD panel. A subscription model would let you watch unlimited movies only when you need them, as opposed to having to pay and therefore carefully choose what you buy on a per movie basis.

The 'owning' the song model is a much different animal. I own thousands of songs, but am unlikely in my lifetime to want to own thousands of movies. I can listen to a 30-50 songs in a two hour period, but can only watch one movie. I am likely to want to listen to a song dozens and dozens of times, but the movie - maybe 2-4 times. For the space it takes up on a disk, that isn't good space management for so few views. And there are some movies that I might watch once and never care to again. Four bucks (or whatever it would be) for a so-so movie doesn't excite me.

I'd enjoy a subscription model simply from the perspective of being able to watch a dozen or so movies every month, and not have to worry about downloading one that turns out to be crap. If I want to own a flick, I can buy it on DVD (and eventually blu-ray) where it will be rippable to put on my iPod if I really want to view it that way.

[ipod0324]

Could this new iPod be trying to compete with Microsoft's new Origami project?

[Butters]

Oh. I thought you were being festitious. :D

I don't have a 5G iPod, but judging from my 4G, I would feel comfortable saying the mockups are accurate to the story's description.

Putting a ruler against my 5G shows that a 4 inch display is just smaller than what there is actually enough space for and what is shown in the mock ups and also the border around the current display is a little less 1/4 inch

[yac_moda]

I wouldn't be surprised if they had planed to show the video iPod and great new steaming capabilities on the 28th and then at the last minute decided to add MORE WAY COOL FEATURES to the vPod.

How long before we get our pPod ??? :eek:

[crees!]

Am I off base in thinking that the success of the iTMS hinges largely on its unique DRM model? Where iTMS users own copies of their data, the languishing competition went into this arena thinking they could outsmart Apple by providing a more financially efficient service, but without considering the permanence and simplicity that consumers desire, and are willing to pay for. I believe the success of these competitors speaks to their shortsightedness.

I would stipulate that the difference between the short media currently offered by the iTMS and full length feature films is enough to revisit the iTMS model. However, I tend to concur with Mr. Jobs with respect to maintaining consistency within the iTMS. Though not the most cost effective to the consumer when considering the price per instances viewed of a full length film, the desire for the simplicity and permanence of ownership among consumers, I believe, remains. Function, simplicity and style--it's what Apple is all about.

By doing this the public is being forced in a different direction they are used to. Regarding music, you're used to purchasing music. Movies you rent and/or purchase. You don't rent music from a store do you? Unless you're talking about the library but that's totally different. People buy music. That's why the subscription model for music hasn't soared. People want to keep their music. With movies it's a different story. People either rent, buy, or rent then buy. Blockbuster lets you rent a movie then purchase it discounted after you rent it if you want. Maybe iTunes can have something like that. Purchase movies at one price. Have a rental subscription, then if you want to purchase that movie you just rented you can at a discounted price. Anyways, I think it's a little different than with music. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Stella]

I don't mind subscription for movies - if its good I'll buy the DVD. However, movies are different from music - i want to own my music. Apple have it absolutely correct, the rest, IMO, are waaaay off.

Any music announcement will unfortuantely be redundant for the majority of this planet, because I suspect apple will be once again focusing on the u.s. Its about time apple announce whether or not they will be rolling out video content for the rest of the world. Therefore, any video ipod won't be that attractive - whats the point of owning one if there is no video content.

[derajfast]

but wouldnt a subscription model basically make the vid ipod obsolete if you could only stream? id have to think the ipod itself would have some tpye of connectivity wirelessly to itunes....

the vid ipod would work great on a buy each movie like music is now, but i think most people (myself included) would rather have the subscription model

[Stella]

Well, ThinkSecret has been pretty spot-on with their rumors, so I usually give them and AppleInsider the benefit of the doubt. It is the next logical step, but I think they'd have to have a little bit more info to actually post it on their site. Otherwise, they'd have posts about how Apple plans on using 1GB of RAM standard on all new Macs and iLife '07 will come out sometime in 2007.

Fishes,
narco.

the reason ts have been spot on is because recently they've predicted every possible outcome at some point or another!

that, is really, not impressive.

[zuckthetree]

Ok kids - before you all get your panties in a twist, just remember what happened after the HiFi came out. If you start expecting this iPod to have lazers, hot-vibrating action, and 37" holographic projection - just remember how let down you all were on Tuesday.

How many iPods does one person really need to own? Really... talk to me. Right now, I'm sure, Steve is sitting in his lab, complete with bunsen burner and petri dish concocting the next bloody iPod that we don't need. Hell, my video iPod (or iPod with Video, I should say) is still in mint condition with no blemishes at all (thanks to Agent 18).


Remember Kids. Apple is a coporation, not your friend.™

Enjoy the next month of going nuts as the rumors flare up again.

[nagromme]

can someone mock up a 4" screen with 1/4" border on the current 5G iPod Form factor?
Here's a mockup with the following specs, accurate within a pixel:

EDIT: I uploaded the wrong image before I fixed my math! New image has the margin dimensions of .3 and .23 as stated below. The attachment here is NOW correct.

* 4.1" x 2.4" housing, identical to 5G.

* 4" diagonal screen (the image, NOT the black border).

* 16:9 screen ratio (which results in the margins that you see).

Bonus points if you recognize the TV show, currently offered on iTunes :)

(Note that the Flickr photo from last week showed the same white margins all around--which means either it's a fake, or the dimensions aren't QUITE the same as 5G, or the screen isn't exactly 16:9, or the black border around the screen isn't 16:9 even if the image is. Now, if a 5G were photoshopped to make the Flickr photo, you'd get the exact even margins that were seen. Only the Chinese characters remain a mystery.)

[macdong]

I don't know, it seems like from these articles, Jobs wants people to buy movies, but at probably at least $4 a piece I'd much rather go for a subscription model...like netflix, there is something to be said about going through a stack of movies every month without actually buying them.

I think most consumers would prefer to watch many movies without owning them. So for something like that, a subscription model would be fantastic.

What do you guys think? 3 movies you keep for $12 or more...compared to $15 for unlimited viewing/take-it-with you/timestamped videos....I'm just guessing on the price by the way, but it seems like it would be quite a bit more than $1.99 (like music videos) and hopefully less than $10 a piece.

:confused:

why not both?
$15 for unlimited viewing, with the option of paying $3 to keep the movie forever.

[arn]

Here's mockup with the following specs, accurate within a pixel:

* 4.1" x 2.4" housing, identical to 5G.
* 4" diagonal screen (the image, NOT the black border).
* 16:9 screen ratio (which results in the margins that you see).


Nice work nagromme. Now, what about this supposed 1/4" border? Not possible it seems at least all the way around. What's the dimensions of those borders with a 4" diagonal screen?

arn

[boncellis]

Most likely though, Apples seamless integration, interface, and the overall 'experience' is what made the ITMS what it is. Apple thought through everything from browsing the songs to getting them onto the iPod. One click purchasing, nice interface, nice price, you own the songs, and the DRM isn't obtrusive.

With regard to movies, however...I believe the subscription model would be best...The 'owning' the song model is a much different animal...For the space it takes up on a disk, that isn't good space management for so few views. And there are some movies that I might watch once and never care to again. Four bucks (or whatever it would be) for a so-so movie doesn't excite me...If I want to own a flick, I can buy it on DVD (and eventually blu-ray) where it will be rippable to put on my iPod if I really want to view it that way.

I appreciate the time you spent in artciulating your point. The only counterpoint I would submit is that surely, innovation in the delivery, storage and viewing of video content is around the bend. I agree that it is difficult to envision the conformity of new service to existing hardware as the most elegant solution.

Remember that the iTMS did not supplant the system of purchasing new or used CDs, rather it supplemented what was already out there. I suspect the same would be true for full length films available through similar means.

[revfife]

Bonus points if you recognize the TV show, currently offered on iTunes :)


Believe it is BSG

[Jerry Spoon]

If you start expecting this iPod to have lazers, hot-vibrating action, and 37" holographic projection - just remember how let down you all were on Tuesday.


Who told you I was hoping for hot-vibrating action on my next iPod? ;)

[nagromme]

Nice work nagromme. Now, what about this supposed 1/4" border? Not possible it seems at least all the way around. What's the dimensions of those borders with a 4" diagonal screen?
The short sides are ~ .3" (again not couting the extra black which LCDs have around them) and the long sides are thinner at ~ .23" (Averaging around .25")

EDIT: The image didn't show that before--I've change my attachment above. It's accurate now.

(Now, should you count the black or not? How thick would the black be? Even with a fixed LCD and housing size, the white margins can vary based on how much extra black is around the image.)

Anyway, I can see this rumor being total vapor, but if it's real, the dimensions need not be precise: the margins could be "about" a quarter inch. The case could be "about" the same size as a 4G. The screen could be "about" 4". Etc.


Believe it is BSG
Correct :) From the VR of the CIC.

[boncellis]

By doing this the public is being forced in a different direction they are used to. Regarding music, you're used to purchasing music. Movies you rent and/or purchase. You don't rent music from a store do you? Unless you're talking about the library but that's totally different. People buy music. That's why the subscription model for music hasn't soared. People want to keep their music. With movies it's a different story. People either rent, buy, or rent then buy. Blockbuster lets you rent a movie then purchase it discounted after you rent it if you want. Maybe iTunes can have something like that. Purchase movies at one price. Have a rental subscription, then if you want to purchase that movie you just rented you can at a discounted price. Anyways, I think it's a little different than with music. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree with you. I believe you are helping me make my point by asserting that the iTMS would have to include some option for purchasing, even if it's after a "rental."

Also, a "rental" is not coterminous with a "subscription." Close as it might be, they are discrete concepts.

[phil989]

theres a number of different issues this throws up. at present, itunes 'automatically update song son ipod' is very useful ( in my opinion) because i want music on my computer at home, and on my ipod 'on-the-go'. however, why it may be true that we don't have enough space for 10 movies on computer, an 80 or 100 gb ipod video would be plenty. handbrake typically converts a 2 hour film into a 1 gig file, at (from my experiences) no visible quality loss.

i think that possibly a combined service is in order, so we have the choice of renting, buying, (al-a-Napster) or a subscription service.

Phil

[soosy]

Buy Movies: Yes!
Rent Movies/PPV: Yes!
Subscription Service: Meh.

A ton of people buy DVDs. A ton of people rent DVDs. A much smaller percentage have subscription plans (just my gut feeling, no stats to back up). A subscription plan wouldn't hurt, but keep it simple.

[zuckthetree]

The short sides are ~ .3" (again not couting the extra black which LCDs have around them) and the long sides are thinner at ~ .23"

(Now, should you count the black or not? How thick would the black be? Even with a fixed LCD and housing size, the white margins can vary based on how much extra black is around the image.)

Anyway, I can see this rumor being total vapor, but if it's real, the dimensions need not be precise: the margins could be "about" a quarter inch. The case could be "about" the same size as a 4G. The screen could be "about" 4". Etc.



Correct :) From the VR of the CIC.
BUT... it needs to fit the HiFi...

[Halsey12]

Garfield. Ha!

[BoyBach]

Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!

:cool:

[BoyBach]

Cool a 4 inch screen isn't that bad but I can't say I'm interested in a movie store. But presumably this blows the exspected April 1st iBook updates out of the water?

New iBooks on Tuesday. ;)

[thegreatunknown]

Could this new iPod be trying to compete with Microsoft's new Origami project?

I'm not so sure that is how I would put it...

[danielwsmithee]

The other question I have is which format will they use 16x9 or 16x10. The 5G iPod form factor would fit a 4" 16x10 nicely. While the 4G form factor would fit a 16x9 format nicely. The 16x10 would display 4x3 TV shows better!

[nagromme]

NOTE: I changed the attachment to my previous post: my first image had a math error and was NOT 16:9 (it was 16:10 making the margins even more different).

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2193972&postcount=68

BUT... it needs to fit the HiFi...
As long as it's close (not TOO much bigger), it can fit any docking product, simply by including the needed adapter.

[MacSA]

....everyones happy again lol

[Ace25]

I really hope that they do not do a pay-to-own service.
This is already a hassle with TV shows. They take up too much hardrive space and I am very unlikely to watch them again. Same with movies and they take up even more space.

It would be ideal if iTunes offered a subscription model (similar to NetFlix, but with no delivery delay).

TV shows - $1.00 (expire in 5 days)

Movies - $4 - $5 (expire in 7-10 days)

Perfect!

I basically described the rental model above. The subscription model at $10-$15 per month with unlimited viewing of movies and TV would be awesome too.

[deadturtle]

I guess this would be a latch onto that 45mil redundant data center they just bought?

[kenaustus]

This one will be interesting to watch. I wold be happy with either a low priced monthly payment or a cheap purchase price. Right now I can go to a used DVD/CD store and get DVDs from $5 and up - or I can watch out for the specials that are advertised weekly. Either way I don't pay full retail. If I buy from Apple's store I'll have to move it to a DVD for long term "backup" and that adds to the costs.

The questions I have are related to using a full video iPod. WIll you be able to slip your own movies into your Mac and download them into the iPod - like you do music? Would that mean that Apple would have another iLife app for ripping DVDs and watching on the Mac or downloading to the iPod. Sort of like Mac-the-Ripper but with some very good compression? I actually wouldn't mind that as I could keep a hand full of movies on the PB for long business trips better than carrying around a stack of DVDs.

[freeny]

I really hope that they do not do a pay-to-own service.
This is already a hassle with TV shows. They take up too much hardrive space and I am very unlikely to watch them again. Same with movies and they take up even more space.


Ironically, this system is good for the movie companies for the very reasons you posted..

My guess is they will offer both a subscription and pay to own service.

[age234]

Could this new iPod be trying to compete with Microsoft's new Origami project?
No, because if this rumor is true, these iPods are within a month of release. Oragami is barely out of the concept stage, if that.

[nagromme]

A variation on my mockup. This one extends the black area around the LCD so that the border is even (.22 or .23" all the way around).

Looks like an unlikely solution to me. Assuming 16:9 (wider would be odd), I think more likely the white margins would be allowed to vary a little like my first mockup (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2193972&postcount=68) (or else the whole thing isn't quite 5G-sized).

BTW with regards to what such a device DOES--don't get your hopes up, you'll only ask for disaappointment. The thing might never even exist, but if it does, don't dream of PDAs and smart phones. It could be JUST an iPod, doing JUST the same things iPods do now--but with a bigger screen. Touch-based scrolling yes, but that doesn't mean styluses, and note-taking and all kinds of other things. I don't see the iPod going in that direction probably--even though I think that would be cool.

[Project]

So how would a subscription model work? I mean, if everybody pays $9.99, what determines the share of that money each movie company gets?

[Flyinace2000]

Sweet, my birthday is April 26th.

[yac_moda]

I don't mind subscription for movies - if its good I'll buy the DVD. However, movies are different from music - i want to own my music. Apple have it absolutely correct, the rest, IMO, are waaaay off.

Any music announcement will unfortunately be redundant for the majority of this planet, because I suspect apple will be once again focusing on the u.s. Its about time apple announce whether or not they will be rolling out video content for the rest of the world. Therefore, any video ipod won't be that attractive - what's the point of owning one if there is no video content.

Look for Apple its now all about education, as it was in the past, by using iTMS and podcasting to make Universities educations a one stop shop, they revolutionize higher education in every way that University mamagement desires.

This will use a LOT of band width and this is probably why Apple is expanding thier work force so greately right now.

What I am talking about is not really plane to see iTMS yet but if click the Stanford icon you will see the beginnings.

Now as the university is revolutionized by podcasting there will be an HUGE opportunity to change it much further by using 3D software that has verticle components to hook up contracters so they bid on jobs, jobs that have been brocken up into such small peices that anyone will be able to participate, and designers will be running the show -- but Apple is so conservative I doubt that they will take it this far.

Although eBay could easily take it this far, think of the eBay of job markets !!!


For high tech workers the university would become a gathering place, were they would get together with the best proffessor to design and build the most cutting edge stuff, and they would stay at the university their entire working lives as the university would provide support to protect their intellectual property and give them clout.

But it is not clear that they would have to live near the university, probably for the top level people, but maybe not.

The best proffessors lectures will be greatly leveraged so the total number of professors will be greately reduced over time, BUT if universities do not start paying ALL of their students to attand they will be missing a huge opportunity.

Univerisities thrive on competition, the best universities would become much better by paying all of their students to attend and then charging them for use of the facilities and podcasting and getting a cut buy helping then to design and sell products. :eek:


Blogs are part of this, if Apple does not soon start selling a movie making WiFi phone to instantly create the better blog they have LOST IT, some smaller company will take over !!!

[MacRumorUser]

So its basicall the Archos AV500.. just it ipod black & white....

The Av500 gets 4 hours battery life on video and 15 with audio. I imagine the same for the new ipod....

[kugino]

This one will be interesting to watch. I wold be happy with either a low priced monthly payment or a cheap purchase price. Right now I can go to a used DVD/CD store and get DVDs from $5 and up - or I can watch out for the specials that are advertised weekly. Either way I don't pay full retail. If I buy from Apple's store I'll have to move it to a DVD for long term "backup" and that adds to the costs.

The questions I have are related to using a full video iPod. WIll you be able to slip your own movies into your Mac and download them into the iPod - like you do music? Would that mean that Apple would have another iLife app for ripping DVDs and watching on the Mac or downloading to the iPod. Sort of like Mac-the-Ripper but with some very good compression? I actually wouldn't mind that as I could keep a hand full of movies on the PB for long business trips better than carrying around a stack of DVDs.
i don't see why apple would prevent people from adding their own video content.

i think you misunderstand what MTR does. MTR is NOT a compression application...it basically removes macrovision and other security measures that prevent you from copying the DVD. handbrake is used by most mac people to convert DVD->mpeg/h.264 content. you can choose a number of compression options. others use iSquint to get content ipod-sized (although handbrake now allows you to do this as well). apple will NOT provide software to rip DVDs onto our ipods...no way.

[Roy Hobbs]

I really hope that they do not do a pay-to-own service.
This is already a hassle with TV shows. They take up too much hardrive space and I am very unlikely to watch them again. Same with movies and they take up even more space.

It would be ideal if iTunes offered a subscription model (similar to NetFlix, but with no delivery delay).

TV shows - $1.00 (expire in 5 days)

Movies - $4 - $5 (expire in 7-10 days)

Perfect!

I basically described the rental model above. The subscription model at $10-$15 per month with unlimited viewing of movies and TV would be awesome too.

Way too much for a rental....Blockbuster is only 2.99...pay per view from the cable company is only 3.50....

No way would I spend $5 on a rental, I would just go and buy the movie.

[kugino]

I wonder if this was supposed to be the announcement for last Tuesday, but the movie deal held them up longer than they had expected? Would explain the lameness of the event. :/

If they put a hi-res 4" touchscreen on a 5g iPod both it better have PDA feature and wireless internet options. Would be such a waste otherwise.
= 30 minute playback time.

[FaasNat]

I would much prefer the once pay, always own.

However, this has me really excited. Unfortunately, haven't ThinkSecret been off recently? I want this iPod a lot. :)
Owning is nice since you can watch whenever you want to. However, there are those movies that I'd like to see, but not neccessarily want to own (or those that once I do see it, definately not want to own).

[thejadedmonkey]

Has it occured to anyone that when you go to the movies on a friday night, you're just "renting" the movie?

With the new iMacs, Mac mini's, and PowerBooks with Frontrow, Apple is reinventing the home theater. Movie theater attendance is down, where as people are watching movies at home. This is just apple's way to get into the home theater business!

[jettredmont]

A subscription based service is a total scam. What they industry is really hoping for, is that you'll use the subscription based service to watch movies you don't care much about, and then will go out and buy your favorite movies on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD in addition to paying the subscription fee. The only customers that would benefit from such a model are those who enjoy watching a plethora of lousy movies.

Umm, is it inconceivable to you that there might - just might, mind you - be one or two movies that occupy that middle ground between "that's so good I have to own it" and pure and total drek?

If NetFlix is any indication, people tend to watch a lot more obscure movies instead of just the "blockbuster" crap that tends to be promoted most heavily. Yeah, they also watch the "blockbuster" crap, but gain a greater appreciation for other films because it doesn't cost any more to sample a few indie flicks than to sit all weekend twiddling thumbs waiting for the next batch of new releases on Tuesday. And, in the end, at least some percentage of them decide that they really don't care about the blockbusters so much ...

I have neither the hard drive space nor the money to buy every movie I watch and enjoy. I'd rather subscribe to a service where I can download the movie I want to watch tonight, watch it, and move on to the next. If I found I really loved the movie, then I might end up buying it on DVD to get both higher quality and a more permanent copy. But the vast majority of movies I watch I either don't like, didn't think were that great, or liked and would recommend to a friend but wouldn't want to watch a second or third time. Movies are, frankly, disposable, except for a scant handful. But, if all I did was watch "truly great" movies I'd only watch 1-2 per year!

[zap2]

Quick Question.. How would a "Click" wheel work on a screen? Like the 3G iPod? With the 4 Buttons uptop?

[Thanatoast]

Ya'll need to chill on this $10 subscription model. Unlimited bandwidth usage for ten bucks a month? What exactly would Apple get out of that? Red ink, is all.

Also, if you subscribe, how are you going to move the movies to your iPod? If it's some sort of broadband streaming, that seems terrible as streaming anything is asking for hiccups, especially with the also-lusted-after "720p minimum or it's not worth it" crowd. The whole point of the iPod is to bring your library *with* you, not leave it on your computer. And you can't really flippantly download an enormous movie file on a whim. It takes a while.

At best, I could see a purchase service, with iPod formatted videos (why change the current paradigm?) for $4.99 a pop. Remember, Apple has to cover bandwidth, hardware, techs, and protection money for the studios. If it costs anything less than that for a full length movie I'll eat my hat.

[mackeeper]

How's this:

$10 - monthly subscription
$40 - monthly subscription w/ iTheater

iTheater - access to movies that are currently in theater. Positives: this will force movie theaters to do a better job. Since movie pirating has become a problem, here is a legally acceptable solution.

(not including your subscription);
$2 to "rent" the movie (expires in 7-10 days)
$6 to buy the movie (never expires) - forever in your HD, (unless you delete it)

Positives; (no need to explain)

I think this is a fair deal.

[nagromme]

Owning is nice since you can watch whenever you want to. However, there are those movies that I'd like to see, but not neccessarily want to own (or those that once I do see it, definately not want to own).
With subscription (as opposed to time-limited individual rentals) you can still watch whenever you want. Example: pay $15 a month and anytime you want to watch any movie, download or stream it and watch it.


Ya'll need to chill on this $10 subscription model. Unlimited bandwidth usage for ten bucks a month? What exactly would Apple get out of that? Red ink, is all.
Yeah, I'd love $10 but it does sound too low IF the quality and selection are good (which they may not be at first).

I think about Netflix--I pay $10 a month for their bottom plan, but that only gets me 1-2 movies a week (which is all the time I want to spend on movies outside the theater anyway). If a service was delivering me potentially 1-2 movies a DAY, then they'd be PAYING a lot more than Netflix. Even subtract shipping, and I think you'd have to pay a lot more for unlimited online viewing.

OR, your online subscription could be limited. Maybe 2 a week or something like that. It's hard to know how the economics would work out. What would Apple have to charge?

Probably more than I want to pay, if the content owners have anything to say about it :o (And yes, I agree they should be compensated.)


Quick Question.. How would a "Click" wheel work on a screen? Like the 3G iPod? With the 4 Buttons uptop?
I think maybe 4 large separate "buttons"--maybe in the corners so you could know where they without the benefit of the the 3G "feel." Or it could be that you tap a 5G-style wheel to press the buttons, and slide to spin the wheel. Or it could be some totally different interface that Apple dreams up...

[ethernet76]

My biggest concern I would have is that iTunes users (those less tech savy) would not truly understand the difference between their "rented" movies and purchased music. Imagine an iTunes library full of files that you may or may not own... I'm confident Apple could find a way to differ the two types, but they need to do it in a way that doesn't confuse the consumer.

I think it would be easy enough to make people understand.

You have a purchased songs thing in the playlist section of iTunes. Rented movies would be a logical addition to that list. It also wouldn't be hard to have iTunes do something based on remaining days. Maybe a pop up box before confirming purchase explaining how rented movies work, and how you could find them in the Rented movies playlist.

[jettredmont]

Dumb question but... how much HD space does a downloaded movie take?

(I'm obviously not a pirate.) :)

Personally I love to own my music. I even prefer buying the CD's to downloading.

But I very rarely wanna watch a movie twice (especially movies made these days).

Subscription service or pay per view would be great.

It all depends on quality.

If you want full DVD quality and encoding, you are talking about 5GB for 2 hours of content. Yes, you can find single-layer (4.something GB) movie DVDs out there, but usually they are both without any extra features AND have crappy picture quality.

DVDs are compressed using MPEG-2. There are many different levels of compression there, but it is also a fairly old technology. On the plus side, the hardware needed to decode it is really cheap.

A download, however, would likely employ a more advanced codec such as MPEG-4 or H.264. These both get much higher quality at lower "bit rates" (how many bits per second; twice the bit rate for the same length of movie equals twice as large a file).

Example:

V for Vendetta trailer in H.264 / 480p (standard definition, but progressive encoding instead of interlaced as you'd see on TV) took 46MB to about 2.5 minutes. For 90 minutes at the same quality that would be 1.6 GB. Not bad. But, is that the quality you'd want to look at for 90 minutes? I'm not sure. Might just be my underpowered Windows box (2.4GHz P4) here at work, but it's pretty jittery for me. On the other hand, it might scroll as smooth as butter on a Core Duo box. Low HD (720p) is more than twice the size. Full HD version (1080p) is 4x as big.

So, yes, the jury is still out on file size. I'd say expect at LEAST 1 GB per hour, perhaps more. Add in 5.1 soundtracks, commentary, subtitles, and featurettes as are common on DVDs and you're looking at 3-4GB minimum for a DVD's worth of content. Remember that this will be "competing" at some level with HD-DVD and BluRay, and 480p will look pretty chunky next to that. For a more competitive HD picture, expect 4GB per hour JUST FOR THE MOVIE, and add 1-2GB for the "standard" extra content we've come to expect with a purchased movie.

Note, of course, that if your download speed isn't 1GB per hour you'll be spending more time downloading the movie than watching it even in SD. Most people on cable or DSL have about half that for total download bandwidth, although a select few might hit that with 4Mbps download speeds.

[wordmunger]

I'd probably pay $10 a month for a service that let me download a set number of movies per month -- say 4 or 5. That doesn't seem like much, but honestly, I wonder how many bottom-level netflix customers do more than that. I'd get the movies right away, and watch them whenever I want. I'd also pay $5 per movie for a "rental" -- something that expired after 2 or 3 viewings -- if they had a selection as big as netflix and the movies were DVD quality.

[revjay]

A Subscription service makes sense for me and my family.

We probably rent on average 5 movies and buy 1 DVD each month...we could spend as little as $40/month on video entertainment. (I have not even mentioned the stacks of DVD's we have not watched more than once...).

A subscription service for half or less of what I am already spending, would save me money and give my family greater choice (I hope) of movies.

...as long as my kids can view movies stored on the ipod on the car's screens...Summer travelling would be even better with unlimited programming.:D

[lmalave]

I dunno, lately it seems like I know a lot more people that use Netflix than go to their local Blockbuster to rent. So I also have no statistics, but anecdotally I would say subscription services for DVDs are *immensely* popular.

Buy Movies: Yes!
Rent Movies/PPV: Yes!
Subscription Service: Meh.

A ton of people buy DVDs. A ton of people rent DVDs. A much smaller percentage have subscription plans (just my gut feeling, no stats to back up). A subscription plan wouldn't hurt, but keep it simple.

[timswim78]

I'm not sure where or when I would ever use a portable video player.

I don't think that I would ever use it at home because I have a laptop with a larger screen.

I bought a portable DVD player once when I was doing a lot of traveling, and I never turned it on, even though I had several movies with me. It just felt kind of weird having one on the airplane.

[age234]

I would definately buy the iPod if it has at least some PDA functionality. If not, I would still strongly consider it.

As for the movie rentals, I think HD content is unreasonable. I'd be happy with SD or even 3/4 the size of SD. I could be convinced (with a little RDF action) that the current resolution is good enough (of course, niether I, nor anyone I know, has an HDTV, so I don't know what I'm missing). Any movie I'm going to rent will be watched once, maybe twice, and that's it. If I really like it, I'll go buy the DVD.

I'm virtually certain that movie purchases will not be burnable, and I'm completely sure that rentals won't be.

[hyperpasta]

This is a la carte enough to appease Jobs and DRM'ed enough to please execs!

Movies are $3/apiece. You get a copy for your widescreen iPod/TV and a copy for your 5G iPod. Movies hang out on your HD forever... until you watch them. Then a timer counts down and after 5 days, the movie dissappears.

This also means that the iTunes Movie Rental Store can debut with a small amount of content (say, Disney only, since Jobs has influence there). Nobody will feel cheated paying a subscription for a tiny amount of content, since its a la carte!



If I were Apple, I'd debut all this stuff in October, along with a $399 stripped-down Mac mini for use mostly with a TV. Think about it:

*6G iPod (Touchscreen) generates buzz for the holidays
*$399 Mac mini pulls in more marketshare for Macs, as people start putting Macs in their living room.
*iTunes Movie Rentals provide the nudge to get both of the aforementioned products.

[DTphonehome]

I dunno, lately it seems like I know a lot more people that use Netflix than go to their local Blockbuster to rent. So I also have no statistics, but anecdotally I would say subscription services for DVDs are *immensely* popular.

Anecdotally...(sp?)
I live in a building filled with young Manhattanites (a demographic Apple can thank for the roaring success of the iPod)...we have a Blockbuster right across the street, but I can't recall ever seeing a person in my building with a Blockbuster bag. On the other hand, I see Netflix envelopes on a daily basis.

I HATE going to Blockbuster...it's impossible to "browse" for anything older than a month ago, they have hardly any stock of older titles, if any at all. The people who work there are minimum-wage morons with attitude and can't help you find anything anyway. They don't restock the shelves with newly-returned movies quickly, so even when you want to see something that's already been returned, you think it's out. When there are checkout lines, it takes forever to get out of there. I don't even consider it an option anymore. With cable on demand, HDTV movie channels galore, and Netflix, there's really no reason to.

--DT

EDIT: oh, and if I REALLY want to see something right away, Barnes and Noble has free same-day delivery in Manhattan, and they have a really good DVD selection.

[ppc_michael]

How could a subscription model work with the iPod? I can see iTunes using it, because every time you play the movie it could check to make sure you're subscribed or something like that.

But when you're movie is on your iPod, there's no way for the iPod to mysteriously check that you're still subscribed!

[Chuck]

Sounds cool - does anyone know what the Chinese characters say?

Chuck.

Oops, wrong thread :p

[Twenty1]

I think it would be easy enough to make people understand.

You have a purchased songs thing in the playlist section of iTunes. Rented movies would be a logical addition to that list. It also wouldn't be hard to have iTunes do something based on remaining days. Maybe a pop up box before confirming purchase explaining how rented movies work, and how you could find them in the Rented movies playlist.

Agreed - I think Apple could find a way to do it (and do it better than most companies).

[DTphonehome]

How could a subscription model work with the iPod? I can see iTunes using it, because every time you play the movie it could check to make sure you're subscribed or something like that.

But when you're movie is on your iPod, there's no way for the iPod to mysteriously check that you're still subscribed!

Hate to use MS as an example, but their Janus (?) DRM scheme for subscription music sites requires that the portable device "check-in" with the service on a monthly basis to allow continued play. So for example, you'd load up your ipod with movies, and if you don't sync for a month (unlikely!), you'll be asked to sync to confirm you're still subscribed.

[age234]

But when you're movie is on your iPod, there's no way for the iPod to mysteriously check that you're still subscribed!
True, but it could check every time you connect the iPod to a computer with iTunes. You could scam Apple all you want, but you'll have to connect it to your computer eventually, whether to charge it or to add music or whatever, and then time's up. I don't think it'd be very hard to accomplish.

[edit] This is assuming there's a limit to the number of movies you can have at once. If there isn't, then DT's solution above would be much better for obvious reasons.

[Twenty1]

the reason ts have been spot on is because recently they've predicted every possible outcome at some point or another!

that, is really, not impressive.

I think for the most part, ThinkSecret and AppleInsider end up with the right story. I guess the intent of my original post was question how 'reliable' a source could be if they provide you with what appears to be very general information; most of which could be easily inferred from non-secret sources such as patents. :-)

[Uma888]

I hope they fix the batterie issues

[brepublican]

This sounds really really cool. I think that a subscription only model is not the best way to go. People should be allowed to buy their favourite movies and rent the ones they dont want to keep. The best model is that one that will sufficiently cover both options.

Either way, movie store or not, gimme some of that 4" iPod!!:)

[brepublican]

But when you're movie is on your iPod, there's no way for the iPod to mysteriously check that you're still subscribed!
Unless... (wait for it, wait for it!) Unless the new iPod is WiFi enabled!!:D

[jacinto45]

Count me as another one who thinks that there's a fundamental difference in how movies and music should be distributed online.

Hasn't Steve himself said it? You may listen to your favorite songs or albums 100 or many many more times in your life, but you're not going to watch your favorite movies (generally) more than ten or so, often a lot less. So it makes a whole lot of sense to have your music permanently and only temporarily have access to movies.

I'm definitely for a subscription model for movies. It would be killer at $10 a month, especially if that's for unlimited films versus only a set number.

[berkleeboy210]

How could a subscription model work with the iPod? I can see iTunes using it, because every time you play the movie it could check to make sure you're subscribed or something like that.

But when you're movie is on your iPod, there's no way for the iPod to mysteriously check that you're still subscribed!

The new iPod will have built in WiFi, and connect to the net everytime you watch the movie my 2 cents

[evanmiles]

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5982/ipodprofinal0dx.th.jpg (http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ipodprofinal0dx.jpg)

Heres a dumb little mockup I did - I guess i still see the value in some sort of wifi chip that would allow one to access ITMS from a network. Hear a song somewhere you really like? Have to have it? Okay, then get it.

Plus for films it can have its own swivel mount ala the imac and cinema displays - dunno how it would attach though and still keep the ipod blemish free.

[mazola]

... Apple's internal product code-name for 'New iPod Sock'?

[ipod0324]

If the size is correct, then Apple' new $100 dollar cases could be compatible with this ipod. That would also make more sense, if the Ipod is touchscreen then you don't need slots on this case. April 1

[Stridder44]

So we can all agree also that the "iTunes" name would change/split with this? I totally understand Apple's view with simplicity and all but they really need to make something new for Movies/TV shows (iTunes Movie/TV Store? wtf?). Or they could maybe make a new App all together and call it something else (where iTunes and the Movie/TV store can co-exsist).

[puuukeey]

dimensions make sense. biggest element of ipod brand next to white plastic.

stupid branding...

[puuukeey]

(iTunes Movie/TV Store? wtf?). Or they could maybe make a new App all together and call it something else (where iTunes and the Movie/TV store can co-exsist).

in the source panel.... Music Store, Movie Store I would hope for that over your suggestions. simplicity simplicity simplicity.

[ipod0324]

How's this:

$10 - monthly subscription
$40 - monthly subscription w/ iTheater

iTheater - access to movies that are currently in theater. Positives: this will force movie theaters to do a better job. Since movie pirating has become a problem, here is a legally acceptable solution.

(not including your subscription);
$2 to "rent" the movie (expires in 7-10 days)
$6 to buy the movie (never expires) - forever in your HD, (unless you delete it)

Positives; (no need to explain)

I think this is a fair deal.
I think that is a great fair deal that the MPAA would be foolish not to accept.

[Stella]

The new iPod will have built in WiFi, and connect to the net everytime you watch the movie my 2 cents

A *portal* device that did that would be a laughing stock.

You would have to be in range of internet access. It wouldn't work, such a device would be too limiting.

Think - I'm on a train, with no internet access, and I can't watch a movie on my iPod due to lack of internet.... yea. that would work. not.

[Stella]

So we can all agree also that the "iTunes" name would change/split with this? I totally understand Apple's view with simplicity and all but they really need to make something new for Movies/TV shows (iTunes Movie/TV Store? wtf?). Or they could maybe make a new App all together and call it something else (where iTunes and the Movie/TV store can co-exsist).


Big mistake.

iTunes is a recognised product, Apple would have to build the new brand up. There are plenty of people who wouldn't know that say, iMovie Store, exists, or what it was.

Simplicity, keep the existing brand name.

In any case, iTunes is no longer about music solely, and hasn't been for a while- its about tv shows ( if your in the states), podcasts and Audio books.

Apple shouldn't make a new product, it should be built upon an existing recognised product, iTunes.

[nagromme]

Name: iTunes Media Store?

Wireless Internet: makes no sense for searching/shopping unless you have a keyboard and much bigger screen. Computers do that job much better. Also makes no sense for DRM enforcement: you aren't always in a place that has public Internet. (In fact, 99.99% of the time I'm not.)

[Play Ultimate]

btw, I also think a subscription model is OK with movies. I think the biggest issue with subscription vs non-subscrip is that when you quit the service, you lose your library. But losing your subscription Movie library is a bit less of a big deal, since I don't mind buying DVD's (bluray, HDDVD) of stuff I really like and want to keep.

arn

Exactly. I rarely buy movies; usually rent...at McDonalds.(see note)
If there is something I really like, it would make sense to buy a nice copy of it rather than an iPod formatted download

note: McDonalds started a service called RedBox with trial markets in St. Louis and Denver. They just expanded it in Colorado so that each rental machine holds 500 DVDs. The cost is $1/day. Pretty cheap.

[maestro55]

When this was discussed before I was totally against it because I thought that the supscription service meant that one would be able to "rent" the movie for a particular amount of time. The idea of being able to rent say 3 or 4 movies at a time and keep them for as long as you are paying the subscription fee does appeal to me. They idea for this would be an unsupported claim that most people watching television shows on their video iPod do so on the go. I think that is fairly safe to say, because who is going to sit at home and only watch their iPod? If you are going to want full length movies for a bus/train/car ride, then the supscription service would work.

However, a few things that I would like to be worked out. Number one, they would have to really improve battery life, and full length videos at higher resolutions would really take a toll on the battery. Also if this is a full screen iPod, I would really like it to come with some kind of sleeve to carry it in. I believe the PSP comes with a case (atleast I think it does... someone correct me if I am wrong). This would be nice for the iPod, because imagine a full video iPod with all kinds of scratches and such. We would have to take extra good care of it.

The last idea is expanding the size of the harddrive. I was laying (or lying?) in bed last night pondering about how big these little harddrives could get over time. I also wonder how large we can get flash memory, while still keeping the physical part small. If I was going to carry around movies and TV shows, I am going to want more space on my iPod.

[revjay]

If the size is correct, then Apple' new $100 dollar cases could be compatible with this ipod. That would also make more sense, if the Ipod is touchscreen then you don't need slots on this case. April 1

Yeah...that would make the $100 so much more worth it!

[tarkeybear]

First Post: my two cents:

Considering the dithered quality of TV shows and videos at ITMS, I wouldn't want to pay "top dollar" (I'm guessing $5-$10 per download for ownership) if the movie video quality is going to be marginal.

I would rather use such a subscription service to screen movies, then go to Amazon and purchase the "keepers" and enjoy the DVD on a plasma screen along with DVD extras.

The subscription model works great for the Movie industry (two sales instead of just one for good movies (a rental sale followed by a DVD sale) and helps me as a consumer from wasting my money on purchasing bad movies. This isn't much different from the movie industry's relationship with rental stores (or the NetFlix model). The upside here for the consumer would enjoy the "instant" gratification of downloading movies when they want them instead of getting metered (like what happens to agressive NetFlix users).

The subscription service (self desctructing downloads) hopefully will screw up the pirates as well, while benefitting the honest consumer.

[tarkeybear]

So do you think the data center that Apple purchased will house the servers that will be necessary to feed us our movies?:)

[tarkeybear]

My money goes to Disney and Pixar (just like when Apple rolled out TV shows).
Once the major studios see the sales numbers, more mainstream content will quickly follow, just like NBC, and cable programming for ITMS!:)

[VanNess]

Didn't read all of the posts in the thread, so sorry if this is repetitive.

For once (and most likely, only once) I'm in agreement with the studios on this one. I'm 100 percent behind the music strategy where you buy it and keep it. Subscription makes no sense whatsoever in the world of music.

But movies are a different story. Unlike music, I rent far more movies than I would ever consider buying, no matter how cheap the purchase price is. And, unlike music, which I will listen to over and over again, I'm much more likely to watch a movie only once, and never have much of an inclination or desire to see it again (especially the stuff they put out now-a-days). That doesn't mean that I don't own movies - I do. It's just that the lion's share of my movie viewing dollar goes towards rentals, and there are very few movies that I care to see more than once, and even fewer that I care to own.

It wouldn't matter to me that purchase price would be approximately the same as rental - if such a thing is even being contemplated, which is hard to imagine. It still a lot of storage and time to download the thing, and in the majority of cases I'll have to go to the trouble of erasing it when I'm finished watching it, as I try to keep my hard drive free and clear of junk I don't need. Just steam the damn thing to me, please! Then, if i really want to buy, present an option to do so. Subscription would be all around perfect for this sort of thing.

And all of this depends on one essential requirement: that the content offered is, at a minimum, the same quality as today's DVD. If it isn't, all bets are off. Not interested. No matter how cheap or how fast the download/stream/what-have-you is.

[Stridder44]

Name: iTunes Media Store?



Thank you. At least someone else sees this too.

[yac_moda]

I think Apple should charge $20 FOR A LIFE TIME SUBSCRIPTION !!!

And then slowly start to raise the price, everyone ON THE PLANET will jump in and pay EVEN IF THEY DON'T OWN A MAC AND ONLY PLAN TO BY ONE IN THE FUTURE just to get the low price.

The planet is SOO big they could make a fortune for many year working this way.

Beside in a couple of years bandwidth will be irrelevant again and in a couple more it will virtually free, and the business model will change again so they should sell as many subscriptions as they can a soon as they can :eek:

[Play Ultimate]

Have iTunes limit the number of movies that can be stored. With a subscription model, iTunes can only store 3 movies at a time. If you want a new movie, you must first delete the old one. Maybe even have a commission/decommission. The movies stay available as long as the membership stays active. So you could download a movie and keep it on your computer "forever" if you want, as long as you keep paying your monthly fee.
The same thing would apply to the iPod.
Seems like this solution would work.

BTW, could this be what the $100 case is designed for? rather than a click wheel iPod?

[tarkeybear]

If Apple follows the subscription model, do you suppose they will make ripping of DVDs as easy as ripping music?:confused:

I would probably still use a video iPod for music ~95% of the time, and watch videos when I have the luxury to sit around and stare at a screen (either at a Pod or playing the movie on the computer), BUT It would be nice to rip in material into the Mac/iPod (commercial or non-commercial movies) to enjoy or review at my convenience.
Danger, here is that Apple would be enabling the pirates, UNLESS when you rip, iTunes creates a self destructing file which wipes itself out after some finite period (n hours or x viewings?).

[jordanste]

sounds good, keep the pay to own model.

[DTphonehome]

If the size is correct, then Apple' new $100 dollar cases could be compatible with this ipod. That would also make more sense, if the Ipod is touchscreen then you don't need slots on this case. April 1

Please, it's $99, not $100. You make it sound overpriced.

[Ultimatetone]

On a hardware note -

I'd like to see some sort of wireless connectivity (Bluetooth and/or Wi-Fi).
(yeah, a Bluetooth keyboard and headset would be nice accessories)

Also, the ability to play Flash, so that Flash/Quicktime integrated content would work on this iPod...

Adobe / Macromedia Flash is being considered on the PSP last time I checked (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/23/news_6131739.html)

- Ultimatetone

[dicklacara]

Buy Movies: Yes!
Rent Movies/PPV: Yes!
Subscription Service: Meh.

A ton of people buy DVDs. A ton of people rent DVDs. A much smaller percentage have subscription plans (just my gut feeling, no stats to back up). A subscription plan wouldn't hurt, but keep it simple.

NetFlix, the most successful movie subscription service, reached 4.2 million subscribers in December 2005.

Here's some more info:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/research/profile.asp?Symbol=nflx

Dick

[kugino]

If Apple follows the subscription model, do you suppose they will make ripping of DVDs as easy as ripping music?:confused:

I would probably still use a video iPod for music ~95% of the time, and watch videos when I have the luxury to sit around and stare at a screen (either at a Pod or playing the movie on the computer), BUT It would be nice to rip in material into the Mac/iPod (commercial or non-commercial movies) to enjoy or review at my convenience.
Danger, here is that Apple would be enabling the pirates, UNLESS when you rip, iTunes creates a self destructing file which wipes itself out after some finite period (n hours or x viewings?).
no, apple will NOT have a DVD-ripping feature. never. no way. and why would having a subscription model lead to DVD-ripping capablility? :confused:
you will be able to put movies on your new video ipod - just buy it from apple's movie store (if and when that ever occurs).

btw - you can now rip and convert commercial DVDs using MTR and handbrake, if you did not know...

[rrraul]

The only problem would be that if you already own a butt-load of dvd's there is no easy way to get them on your ipod with free windows software, other than buying them again. Im sure you cant rip dvds using itunes although that would be swell. If anyone does know an easy way please let me know it would be apreciated.

[kugino]

The only problem would be that if you already own a butt-load of dvd's there is no easy way to get them on your ipod with free windows software, other than buying them again. Im sure you cant rip dvds using itunes although that would be swell. If anyone does know an easy way please let me know it would be apreciated.
there's a windows version of handbrake

[chargoy]

the big tamales in the movie business are just as stupid as their counterparts in the music industry when it comes to marketing over the internet.
it took steve jobs to show these overpaid dudes how to sell their own product. now, the greed in the movie business once again trumps their understanding of how consumers think. they just want to shove their idiotic subscription model down the customers throat, like it or not. i think it all comes down to a severe case of jealosy. they want to prove to themselves that they are also able to come up with good ideas and that jobs was just lucky.

yumi!! I like tamales, and in Oaxaca we have a 3 or 4 feets tamales. :D

[tarkeybear]

no, apple will NOT have a DVD-ripping feature. never. no way. and why would having a subscription model lead to DVD-ripping capablility? :confused:
you will be able to put movies on your new video ipod - just buy it from apple's movie store (if and when that ever occurs).

btw - you can now rip and convert commercial DVDs using MTR and handbrake, if you did not know...

Thanks for the tip about handbrake, I haven't used it but I would love to see Apple provide the same ease of use to ripping DVDs as they provide for CDs. The only problem is the piracy issue.
The only way I could see Apple introduce a ripping feature is if the ripped content self destructs.
For me, I would be cool with self destruction since I would own the content and could rip it up into the computer/iPod again at a later time if needed. Otherwise, I would probably prefer to enjoy the content at max resolution on a home theater.

cheers:)

[Digidesign]

Back to the original discussion...

As a previous Netflix customer (quit because not enough time to justify membership) I can safely say that I would be interested in a movie-subscription model. $19.99/month to watch any movie on my video iPod? Sold.

Trouble is, I don't think a subscription model where you pay $x/month to watch unlimited movies is going to fly. Netflix was limited by mail times, and indeed, they started penalizing users who watched too many movies, too fast because they started losing money for the shipping. For Big Hollywood, the absence of such a bottleneck to unlimited viewing, combined with the ease of "already digitized content that may or may not be easily ripped/hacked" leads me to believe that we will not get unlimited viewings on a subscription model.

[Goliath]

Full movie downloads would be cool but the Studio's greed will kill or severely limit the usefullness of such a service.

When will the Entertainment Industry learn that the best way to kill piracy is to make it not worth the hassle?

If I could download the latest film to rent for £1 why would I bother with P2P/Torrents/ The dodgy Chinese seller!??

Yes they'd make less per download BUT more people would spend money on their products.

I went to the cinema recently to see Jarhead and it cost me £7.50 a ticket!

GREED pure and simple!

Stop charging so much and then you'll see piracy levels fall.

[Demon]

can't wait for the true video iPod. the current one is just a music player with a nice screen.. maybe Apple will move into the PMP market along with more PDA functions... touch screen would do the job nicely.:)

[beatle888]

Any timeframe on this new ipod?

Nevermind that, just checked the TS page. Anywho, do you guys think that an 80gb version is in the works?


considering the iPods at 60G's now i would say yes, its safe to assume that they are working on an 80 gig version or higher.

[beatle888]

If they put a hi-res 4" touchscreen on a 5g iPod both it better have PDA feature and wireless internet options. Would be such a waste otherwise.

apple wont release a product that advanced unless they need to. even if they have one ready, they aren't going to release it until the demand for the current iPod slows down. its important to let a product pull in all its potential profits before you outdate it with a new one by leaps and bounds. they would most likely release a touch screen iPod, then next, an iPod that can run some pda like applications such as an updated calendar and contacts application that allows data entry...simple tasks like that. then next (we're already talking a couple years down the road here), internet access and on and on.

this time frame can excellerate however due to competition, for example the origami.

[runninmac]

considering the iPods at 60G's now i would say yes, its safe to assume that they are working on an 80 gig version or higher.

Yep, If I do remember correctly they could have thrown an 80 Gigger in the Fifth generation iPod but they didn't want to because of it size and power consumption. I'd imagine this video iPod will be close to the 30 gig photo in width.

[GrannySmith_G5]

I wish I could sit on my couch and download old tv shows.(not Knight Rider). A selection proportionally as large as the music store. Old Twilight Zones, Twin Peaks, umm umm WrestleMania 1!

[FUBAR16]

If Apple does go with a subscription movie service, what's the quality of the movie? Just formatted for the iPod? If so, then that's the only practical device that you'll be watching the movie on. And good luck trying to watch it on a TV or even a 19" screen, I mean you can but it won't look good. Or, say it is a high quality H.264 movie...then you'll be spending an hour or so downloading every movie you watch? And then there's the time it's gonna take to upload to the iPod over and over. Is this all practical?

I like the concept, but I think the infrastructure to support that just isn't there yet. However, I do like the idea of opening up the front row interface to other devices, such as Tivo or EyeTV, whatever. Let them do the work and Apple can act as the control panel for all your media.

[xDANx]

so here's what i was thinking...

some people have opined that a buy-to-own model would be annoying because eventually all your movies would take up a huge amount of disk space. but what if apple updated iDVD to seamlessly handle and burn the h.264 files purchased and downloaded from the itunes store...that way you could simultaneously backup your movies and create a disc that's readable by console DVD players as well as computers. as far DRM goes, this would be in line with the way apple treats music...as a digital file it has copy protection, but burn it to a CD and it behaves just like a store-bought CD. i'm assuming that apple will add a DRM layer to h.264 files. the number of times that you could burn a DVD could be limited just like playlists in itunes.

any thoughts?

EDIT: i just thought of a couple of problems with my own idea...would all the h.264 files have to be converted to MPEG2 to work as a standard DVD? and the movie studios would probably require region encoding and CSS/macrovision crap before ever agreeing to anything like this...which complicates things.

[xDANx]

If Apple does go with a subscription movie service, what's the quality of the movie? Just formatted for the iPod? If so, then that's the only practical device that you'll be watching the movie on. And good luck trying to watch it on a TV or even a 19" screen, I mean you can but it won't look good. Or, say it is a high quality H.264 movie...then you'll be spending an hour or so downloading every movie you watch? And then there's the time it's gonna take to upload to the iPod over and over. Is this all practical?

i don't think that the time spent downloading movies and transferring them to an ipod is really all that big a deal...people wait a couple of days for movies to arrive in the mail with netflix and similar services...waiting a couple of hours to download a film isn't such a big deal. also, USB2/FW400 is fast enough to make the time involved in transferring these files (even if they're as big as 1.5 GB) a minor inconvenience at worst.

choosing which format to support is an interesting question though. should the files be only as large as required to look good on your brand new shiny 6G ipod, or should they be large enough to look good on your 20" iMac (thereby taking up more space than necessary on the ipod and possibly using resolutions that are less than ideal for portable video)? is there an easy way to reconcile the two?

[InTheBand]

btw, I also think a subscription model is OK with movies. I think the biggest issue with subscription vs non-subscrip is that when you quit the service, you lose your library. But losing your subscription Movie library is a bit less of a big deal, since I don't mind buying DVD's (bluray, HDDVD) of stuff I really like and want to keep.

arn

What I don't understand is why does it have to be either purchase or subscription? Why not both?

For example, buy the movies you know you want for $9.99 and have the option for a monthly/annual unlimited subscription service at $15.99 - $19.99? Just have the subsciption service movies expire after a few views [2-3] or after a limited time [1-2 weeks]. If you watched the movie 2-3 times or decided to hold on to it for 1-2 weeks, you probably like it enough to own it, so buy it for $9.99. Or don't. It's a "win-win" situation.

What do you guys think of a combination pay to own/subscription movie service like that?

[InTheBand]

Id go for both a subscription and a one time purchase. A subscription to check out new stuff I havent seen and the one time pay for movies id like to keep.

Ooops... I should have read a few more posts. looks like i'm not the only one who would like a combination pay to own/rent to view service.

[InTheBand]

A dvd/cd is roughly 4 3/4" in diameter.

The iPod 60Gb's size is already 4.1h x 2.4w x 0.55d and weighs 5.5 ounces. So a widescreen format device that's roughly 5h x 7w x .75d and weighs about 1 or 1.5 pounds isn't impossible is it? To further put it in perspective, the 15" MacBook Pro is 9.6h x 14.1w x 1.0d and weighs 5.6 pounds.

Maybe those vPod dimensions and weight can accomodate the hard drive along with an optical drive, a bigger or better battery, etc.? This vPod [at these dimensions] is just a playback device at about 1/2 the width, 1/2 the height, 3/4 the depth, and less than 1/4 or 1/3 the weight of a MacBook Pro. Compared to the 60Gb iPod, it's less than 25% higher, less than 3x wider, less than 25% thicker and only 2-2.5x heavier with a lot more relevant functionality.

With a 4" screen, those dimensions allow for a sturdy [almost] 1/2" border on the top and bottom and 1.5-2.5" inches on either side [for left or right hand use if there is going to be a physical scrollwheel/controls/stylus holder/etc. and they're not ready to go all touchscreen yet], or that extra space can be distributed evenly on both sides [if the vPod is all touchscreen with no physical scrollwheel/controls].

Maybe Apple has come up with a physical scroll wheel that can distinguish orientation the way that laptop screens can, and adjusts accordingly for either left or right handed use depending on which side the extra space is on. OR, maybe the VIRTUAL scroll-wheel exists and resolves this problem but is not intended to overlay the image being displayed at all and has it's own designated space, simply shortening the width of the image on whichever side the user wants to access the scroll-wheel on, and reverts to full screen after use [this is what my touchscreen car navigation system does when I'm playing a movie and the controls need to be accessed]. Maybe, this could be a way to determine orientation as well for left or right hand use.

I like the overlaying virtual scroll wheel better though, if it disappears and re-appears like Quicktime's visual controls.

So you can either store the movies [or whatever content] on the hard drive, but can also playback the dvd's/cd's you've already, or are going to, purchase/burn movies and/or music to?

Any thoughts?

[kugino]

A dvd/cd is roughly 4 3/4" in diameter. What if they made this vPod 5"height x 6" or 7"wide [5" x 7" is a common photograph size] and maybe 3/4" thick [or less if possible, of course].

Meaning, what if the vPod is also a portable dvd/cd player?

The iPod's size is already 4.1h x 2.4w x 0.55d and weighs 5.5 ounces.

So 5h x 7w x 3/4"?d with a 4" screen allows for a sturdy [almost] 1/2" border on the top and bottom and 2-3" inches on either side [for left or right hand use if there is going to be a physical scrollwheel/controls and they're not ready to go touchscreen yet], or to be distributed evenly on both sides [if all touchscreen with no physical scrollwheel/controls].

Maybe they have come up with a scroll wheel that can distinguish orientation the way that laptop screens can, and adjust accordingly for either left or right handed use.

So you can either store the movies [or whatever content] on the hard drive, but can also playback the dvd's/cd's you've already purchased or the dvd's/cd's that you're going to burn movies and/or music to?

Any thoughts?
ummm, no. not gonna happen.

[InTheBand]

ummm, no. not gonna happen.

Damn.

Actually, when I was describing the vPod as possibly also a dvd/cd player [widescreen format device that's roughly 5h x 7w x .75d and weighs about 1 or 1.5 pounds], I was actually just picturing it looking like the upper right hand corner of the [fake] device in this pic:

http://www.macshrine.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/02/tablet1.jpg

Oh well, maybe this is more suitable for the larger, clipboard sized MacPod [PDA/tablet pc hybrid] anyway. Just need to add the network capabilities [WiFi, Bluetooth, InfraRed, etc.], peripheral connectivity [USB, Firewire, Audio, etc.] along with the input capabilities [multi-touch point/gesture/virtual keyboard/Inkwell stylus input, etc.] and of course, Mac OS X. :)

I really think that the MacPod will look something like a larger vPod and [hopefully] somewhat like this http://www.macshrine.com/2006/02/25/mactablet/ , but at slightly more than half the height and width shown [hopefully 9" x 12"], because if you use the 4 3/4" cd in the 3rd pic for sizing perspective, this thing would be almost 16" wide and 20" high!

[camphorsunrise]

Ok kids - before you all get your panties in a twist, just remember what happened after the HiFi came out. If you start expecting this iPod to have lazers, hot-vibrating action, and 37" holographic projection - just remember how let down you all were on Tuesday.


i always wanted my iPod to support hot-vibrating action...

a whole new reason to buy the ToughSkin case! :D

[tny]

It depends on how much the service would cost. If it's more than $15/month, then that would suck. Otherwise I'd like a "watch for 24 hours" system that only costs $1-$2/movie. I don't watch nearly that many movies in a month, especially on anything as small as a Video iPod.

That's called On Demand. I don't think it makes much sense for Apple to compete against cable companies; look at what's happening to TiVo. I also think that subscription-based services aren't such a good idea for movies; but then I don't buy a DVD to watch it once. Finally, I think a pay-once-play-forever system would have lower overhead than a virtual Netflix.

[Fabio_gsilva]

Nice work nagromme. Now, what about this supposed 1/4" border? Not possible it seems at least all the way around. What's the dimensions of those borders with a 4" diagonal screen?

arn

What if the controls were located in the borders? Wouldn't id be better than a touchscreen? Like north, south, east, west...

4" is the same size of a PSP screen???

[billyboy]

I dont know about ipod video. it doesn't make sense as the flagship for a movie download service. Maybe iPod music vid viewer, and maybe a marketing tool to promote the ease of use Apple is getting famous for, but not much else.

Firstly, is the iPod the big kahuna for photos? Not really. But photos are used far more by computer users nowadays than are movies, so if iPod hasnt revolutionised photo viewing around at Grandma's, why would a movie ipod do the same for full blown movies?

Secondly, Apple do things to make life easier for users, so why give them a 4" screen when you could go and buy a 7" dvd player for similar/less money?

And third, it sems obvious to me that the Mac mini is the movie download store bait and trap. It has the storage, the software and the looks for the vast majority of movie watchers ie homebirds, whereas an iPod video would suit that tiny number of students running between dorms.

So I think that just as the iPod photo was the forerunner of the everyday iPod, ie a colour screen that is now standard, I see the 4" screen, if it exists, as something to primarily make the photo viewing on iPods pretty good, and that screen to eventually become the de facto format for all iPods. The video content viewing option with a 4" screen would be a useful add-on tool as far as music videos, but I really cannot see Apple floating their movie download project relying on the storage and video capabilities of a 4" iPod. ie The iPod would give more a taste of the Mac movie experience but it isnt the solution per se.

[Proud Liberal]

I have seen several posts saying that the new $100 Apple case now makes sense given the purported forthcoming true video iPod w/touchscreen. What am I missing about this - it just doesn't make sense why this case (no cutouts) would be good for a touchscreen video player. Can someone enlighten me? :confused:

[peharri]

so here's what i was thinking...
any thoughts?

It's a nice idea and the way a movie download service should would in my not-so-humble opinion.

EDIT: i just thought of a couple of problems with my own idea...would all the h.264 files have to be converted to MPEG2 to work as a standard DVD? and the movie studios would probably require region encoding and CSS/macrovision crap before ever agreeing to anything like this...which complicates things.
Well, the MPEG2 conversion wouldn't be an issue. The serious issue is the region encoding/CSS crap. Basically, you cannot burn, with a consumer DVD writer (including the SuperDrive) a copy-prevented DVD. Not possible. If you could, it'd be awesome, because you'd be able to easily copy copy-prevented DVDs, by-passing CSS and thus not actually circumventing an ACM (which, in turn, means as long as the copying was "Fair use", it'd be legal.)

Sounds bizarre, I know, but unless they create a seperate, incompatable with CSS, copy-prevention method for DVD+-Rs, which it's too late to do, you cannot copy-prevent a burned DVD.

And that's the problem. The movie industry doesn't like the idea of selling copies of its movies over the Internet to begin with (it prefers a rental model), the last thing they're going to accept is the notion that someone can "buy" a copy, and then burn it to an easily-rippable DVD. Funnily enough, I recall Jobs himself making comments about the movie industry's adoption of BluRay, with his Pixar hat on, about the undesirability of burnable next-generation DVDs.

At some point, someone in the tech industry with enough power is going to do a double-take, ask themselves why the content-industry is able to get away with such demands, and essentially give them an ultimatum: either give consumers some rights (and stop crippling hardware at the same time), or forget about revenues outside of the theatres themselves. The tech industry is large enough, it just is too divided to do it right now.

[ddrueckhammer]

Seems to me that the whopping size of a 90-minute movie at even 640x480 quality would make it impractical to keep more than a handful of films on your hard drive at one time anyway.

Doesn't the Netflix x-movies-at-a-time model make more sense from the perspective of conserving drive space?

I really don't think the file size is an issue. Even if the files are 3Gb apiece and 800x600 the time to download them on most broadband connections would be faster than waiting for a movie to come in the mail from Netflix. Also, if they implement a queue of movies that download at night while you are asleep then you would have a list of movies to watch all the time. If you have even only a 40Gb hard drive you could find space for 5 or 6 movies at a time and many people have larger than that. Finally, there are millions of people pirating movies using bit torrent every day. There is definitely a market for online movie rentals/purchases.

[peharri]

I really don't think the file size is an issue. Even if the files are 3Gb apiece and 800x600 the time to download them on most broadband connections would be faster than waiting for a movie to come in the mail from Netflix. Also, if they implement a queue of movies that download at night while you are asleep then you would have a list of movies to watch all the time. If you have even only a 40Gb hard drive you could find space for 5 or 6 movies at a time and many people have larger than that. Finally, there are millions of people pirating movies using bit torrent every day. There is definitely a market for online movie rentals/purchases.

Has to beat Netflix, but also has to beat Blockbuster and Hollywood video, not to mention Borders, FYE, and Publix. There needs to be some degree of "instant gratification" for the whole thing to be popular.

I, personally, know way more people who use the iTMS than who use Netflix. Actually, hardly anyone I know uses Netflix. I know it's popular, but if the aim is to beat Netflix, they'd be setting the bar too low.

[Alone2Gether]

Birthday time - 1/4/06


Not a Tuesday so probably not. Maybe 4/7

[AppleisTasty]

This is what I would ideally like from an iTunes Movie Service: $3.99 for a movie, $4.99 for a movie with all the deleted scenes and speciel features you would useally get on a dvd. That way people who don't care about the special features can save a dollar, and get some more storage space.
You would be able to import the dvds you already have into iTunes, and burn the movies you buy on dvd.... And of course download them into your brand new widescreen ipod, that would preferably be 80 gigs for $2.99 100 gigs for $3.99 and 120 gigs for $4.99!
Of course dvd quality and a big selection is a must!

[KBandit]

So this new video ipod is going to replace the current 5G? what happens then to the people who don't want a huge screen, but still want more than 4 gigs for music? Or is not going to be replacing it?

[age234]

So this new video ipod is going to replace the current 5G? what happens then to the people who don't want a huge screen, but still want more than 4 gigs for music? Or is not going to be replacing it?
No one really knows, but I'm thinking that they'd release the full-face version alongside the 5G, keeping both lines. The theoretical 6G will almost certainly cost more to make, so unless Apple wants to take a profit cut to replace the 5G price point, it'll be separate and more expensive.

As to burnable movie downloads, I don't think there's even a one-in-a-million chance of that happening. As peharri said, if they do that, there's no way at all to stop piracy, because all the copy protection is gone.

Perhaps a possibility is to allow a one-time burning of the video file to a data disc, which would keep all its protections intact, satisfying the "backup" crowd. If anyone complains about that, more likely than not they have the intent to pirate (at least in Apple's or the film industry's eyes).

But a playable DVD? I don't think so.

[ddrueckhammer]

Has to beat Netflix, but also has to beat Blockbuster and Hollywood video, not to mention Borders, FYE, and Publix. There needs to be some degree of "instant gratification" for the whole thing to be popular.

I, personally, know way more people who use the iTMS than who use Netflix. Actually, hardly anyone I know uses Netflix. I know it's popular, but if the aim is to beat Netflix, they'd be setting the bar too low.

I was just comparing it to Netflix because it is a subscription based movie service. I hope that it will beat all of the resellers that you listed but if it at least competes with Netflix I would call it a success. The reason I think it would take a while to catch on is that I still know many adults who are completely computer illiterate and would rather spend the extra money at Blockbuster than figure out how to get on the internet. (Sad Really)

BTW I have an Netflix account and its completely awesome. You should try it and if you like it get all of your friends to try it. You still have to remember to send back the movies though or you don't get as good of a value. I can't even go into Blockbuster without feeling ripped off any more. (Kind of like the feeling I get when I go into a Best Buy after being a Mac user) I went there and rented some movies the other day. None of the movies I really wanted were on the shelf. There were people running around snatching and grabbing titles and I had to wait 10 minutes while the clerk changed out the tape on the register. Then when I got the bill it was $12 for three new rentals which is almost a whole month's subscription of Netflix (I get 3 at a time)! The only thing I can say bad about Netflix is that I have read that they put frequent renters into a different queue where they don't get their movies as quickly. This is just wrong no matter what their obligations to their stockholders are.

[Dark Horse]

So this new video ipod is going to replace the current 5G? what happens then to the people who don't want a huge screen, but still want more than 4 gigs for music? Or is not going to be replacing it?

This is a fundamentally different product. It can't be a replacement - it had to be an extension to a broadening range.

[powerbook911]

I see an issue with offering quality any better than the current TV shows on iTunes.

Apple now has the Front Row Mac Mini, and they promote it as being able to stream iTunes video store content from other macs.

However, if you try to stream a file you've encoded yourself that is any bigger than the iTunes files (in kbps) and substantial size, it just freezes iTunes.

[snugja]

http://www.macshrine.com/ipodav.htm

[Mac_Freak]

FAKE here is my prove...
http://lantkiewicz.t35.com/1copy.jpg

[BoyBach]

...and I thought this one was definitely real ;)

[baddaddy]

Id go for both a subscription and a one time purchase. A subscription to check out new stuff I havent seen and the one time pay for movies id like to keep.


Nah....that makes too much sense.

[baddaddy]

If Apple does go with a subscription movie service, what's the quality of the movie? Just formatted for the iPod? If so, then that's the only practical device that you'll be watching the movie on. And good luck trying to watch it on a TV or even a 19" screen, I mean you can but it won't look good. Or, say it is a high quality H.264 movie...then you'll be spending an hour or so downloading every movie you watch? And then there's the time it's gonna take to upload to the iPod over and over. Is this all practical?

I like the concept, but I think the infrastructure to support that just isn't there yet. However, I do like the idea of opening up the front row interface to other devices, such as Tivo or EyeTV, whatever. Let them do the work and Apple can act as the control panel for all your media.


In the last 2 weeks Applke spent 50 Million dollars on a building designed to run mega servers. They got the building at 1/4 the market price. The speculation is that this will be configured to the iMovie service. THIS IS THE INFRASTRUCTURE!

I simply can't see them making this investment and not improving the video quality of the finished product.

However I agree with you about the file size. It takes 4 minutes for me to download a 50 minute Tv show in lousy format. Perhaps they will increase the image quality but compress it for downloading.

[Ace Pumpkin]

My guess is that the virtual clickwheel would appear beneath the point where you'd touch the screen. As long as you touched somewhere in the middle, the clickwheel would appear. Then you'd simply make small circular motions, as you do with a 5G, and the iPod would know how to respond. You'd still need to know which way is up, but that's also an existing concern with the 5G. As for using the options with the wheel, it is likely that you'd tap once and then tap again in the direction the option is located:


tap then tap above (toward the headphone jack): menu
tap then tap below: play/pause
double tap: switch to navigation mode or rating mode.

I find I often need to view the iPod screen anyway for anything more complicated.

Chording (placing more than one finger/appendage on the screen at a time) may also be used; for example, you might be able to hold a finger down on the screen while the thumb rotates.

I think Apple should charge $20 FOR A LIFE TIME SUBSCRIPTION !!!

And then slowly start to raise the price, everyone ON THE PLANET will jump in and pay EVEN IF THEY DON'T OWN A MAC AND ONLY PLAN TO BY ONE IN THE FUTURE just to get the low price.
I remember a theater company that showed a play where the first day of the show was $1, with the amount of money going up by $1 each day until the final day, where it cost $20/25. I don't know how successful it was.

[thunderclap]

Well, I was going to pick up a 5G iPod this week for my week-long Boston trip, but now I'm not sure. I don't want to spend $300 + $100 for the A/V dock only to have a new and better version out a month later. I really wish Apple would either come clean on when stuff was being released or allow a trade-in of some kind. *sigh*

[Boingy]

I would probably still use a video iPod for music ~95% of the time, and watch videos when I have the luxury to sit around and stare at a screen (either at a Pod or playing the movie on the computer), BUT It would be nice to rip in material into the Mac/iPod (commercial or non-commercial movies) to enjoy or review at my convenience. Danger, here is that Apple would be enabling the pirates, UNLESS when you rip, iTunes creates a self destructing file which wipes itself out after some finite period (n hours or x viewings?).

Why would I want to go through the hassle of ripping a DVD multiple times unless I purposfully deleted the file? That's crazy! Would the file decay on the Pod? What if I took it on vacation away from a computer or the DVD? Would I be without that file, or after a time all of them?

I have seen several posts saying that the new $100 Apple case now makes sense given the purported forthcoming true video iPod w/touchscreen. What am I missing about this - it just doesn't make sense why this case (no cutouts) would be good for a touchscreen video player. Can someone enlighten me? :confused:

The notion is that that case would protect the screen when it's not in use. Most people toss their iPod in their bag or pocket but that's really not a good idea with this one for obvious reasons.

As to burnable movie downloads, I don't think there's even a one-in-a-million chance of that happening. As peharri said, if they do that, there's no way at all to stop piracy, because all the copy protection is gone.

Perhaps a possibility is to allow a one-time burning of the video file to a data disc, which would keep all its protections intact, satisfying the "backup" crowd. If anyone complains about that, more likely than not they have the intent to pirate (at least in Apple's or the film industry's eyes).

But a playable DVD? I don't think so.

With downloadable content they cannot assume all the users have a portable device that accepts pure digital. What if I had a portable DVD player or just a regular DVD player and I want to watch a movie I downloaded on the road or the living room? Am I to be SOL? That seems to be a rather foolish notion and a very screw-the-end-user ideal, though unfortunatly one the MPAA relishes.

On DVD ripping, wouldn't that violate the DMCA? I would LOVE it if iTunes could do that for me (and hopefully my new iPod AV) but a mainstream piece of software by a NASDAQ company featuring DRM/copy protection circumvention... Dubious.

~V

[peharri]

Well, I was going to pick up a 5G iPod this week for my week-long Boston trip, but now I'm not sure. I don't want to spend $300 + $100 for the A/V dock only to have a new and better version out a month later. I really wish Apple would either come clean on when stuff was being released or allow a trade-in of some kind. *sigh*

Will that iPod do what you want out of it, or were you more interested in a movie player?

You really can't "not buy" something on the basis of unsubstantiated speculation on what might also be released in a few months. The question you, if you don't know what's coming down the line, have to ask is: Is device X worth Y to you? If so, pay Y, otherwise wait.

[derbladerunner]

With the (rather disappointing) news out on MS Origami - see here for details and pictures http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6047156.html - is there any chance Apple will use the same Intel chips ?

The good news from the Origami project is these Intel low-power chips will indeed arrive in the next few weeks.

Any *new* evidence there is going to be an Apple event around April 1st ?

(I'm aware of Jobs' remark at the end of the Feb 28 presentation and company Apple's birthday)

[Don Bagles]

This 4 Inch iPod is coming in 4 days. Just thought i'd revive this lost thread since this ancient rumor is finally coming into existence.