PowerMac and LCD Information

[MacRumors]

Some collected information on new hardware:

- New PowerMacs are Mac OS X-Only (booting) (old OS 9 models are available)
- The Low End PowerMac is now a single-processor machine (Was a dual 867)
- Apple's 20" LCD appears to require Mac OS X v10.2 (presumably for drivers).
- Apple's now discontinued 22" LCD can be found for $1499 from retailers.
- Noise problems claim to be solved in the new PowerMacs
- Apple's 23" LCD saw a significant price drop (by $1500) and now retails for $1999.
- A common internet myth is that Apple "overclocked" it's high end G4 processors. This is simply speculation and appears not to be true for the 1.25GHz processors. These appear to be clocked by Motorola at 1.25GHz. The 1.42GHz processors should similarly be assumed to be Motorola parts.

[MasterX (OSiX)]

I'm still waiting for the President to enhance his State of the Union address with Keynote. :¬)

[kansaigaijin]

am I the first to notice that these are Xserver technology boards in these cases?
http://a320.g.akamai.net/7/320/51/33a2bae05a86a4/www.apple.com/powermac/images/architecturetop08132002.jpg
that would explain why the low-end single processor unit is still an improvement on the old DP unit, with the improved I/O and system bus technology.


yes the low-end has a 133mhz bus and the top end has a 2MB cache, but they have the same architecture.

http://a688.g.akamai.net/7/688/51/95741f479512ad/www.apple.com/xserve/images/architecturetoprt05142002.jpg

[kansaigaijin]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
I'm still waiting for the President to enhance his State of the Union address with Keynote. :¬)

and what would his "and one more thing" be?

"oh, and one more thing, next week we invade China"

[MasterX (OSiX)]

I also noticed the new heat syncs are smaller than before. and in some of the apple's photos you can see a new fan toward the CD drives. Are these on the last PowerMacs?
Also with a PowerMac 1Ghz at $1499 I think we'll see some interesting things in the iMac/eMac soon.

[scem0]

This was a great upgrade on both the display and powermac lines.
I mean, how can you not like the prices. Prices where the reason
I got a PC in the 1st place, so now that apple seems to correct
their pricing problem I will get a mac. I just want a 970 chip ;).

Updates like this make me very excited about new iMacs... They
gotta be coming soon. ;)

[Freg3000]

A common internet myth is that Apple "overclocked" it's high end G4 processors. This is simply speculation and appears not to be true for the 1.25GHz processors. These appear to be clocked by Motorola at 1.25GHz. The 1.42GHz processors should similarly be assumed to be Motorola parts.

Ok, I don't get this at all. When the 1.25 Ghz came out, everyone said, "it's just a overclocked 1.0 Ghz!" Now the 1.42 Ghz comes out, and some say it's a 1.25 Ghz that is overclocked.

1.0----->1.25
1.25----->1.42

1.0------>1.42?

So by this simple logic, can we say that the 1.42 Ghz is an overclocked 1.0 Ghz? If the next revision of Powermacs gives us 1.6 Ghz are we going to say it's an overclocked 1.42 Ghz?

Can't we all just say that if Motorola produces a chip at 1.42 or 1.25 Ghz, stamps it and sends it to Apple, that is it not overclocked? Once in a while they might produce a fairly speedy chip!

[arn]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
am I the first to notice that these are Xserver technology boards in these cases?

that would explain why the low-end single processor unit is still an improvement on the old DP unit, with the improved I/O and system bus technology.

I don't see why you are saying this is XServe tech... it's not unlike the old PowerMac tech.

arn

[Dont Hurt Me]

Seems like motorola doesnt want to print its specs on the 7455 1.25 ghz or 1.42 ghz. Not to bust on the administrator of this site but i noticed you used the words APPEAR and ASSUMED! All us mac lovers are just trying to figure this out and we are smart enough to know motorolas history concerning their cpus and where it has left our beloved Macs!

[scem0]

I think I read about it being xServe tech on some other web site,
maybe spymac... wait, it was MacInTouch

Looking to boost a poorly-selling line of professional computers, Apple announced new Power Macs this morning (which apparently will be unable to boot from Mac OS 9). The new Power Mac G4s are based on the XServe architecture but add FireWire 800 plus internal support for AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth

hope that helps. ;)

[ChicagoMac]

I'm glad to hear that the noise problem may have been fixed. As a musician this would obviously be important to me. I'm considering a powermac over an Imac now, but I'll wait another week to see what else Apple has to offer in the Imac lineup.

[kansaigaijin]

from the Apple page,

"Cutting-edge Xserve-based system architecture gives the Power Mac G4 a tremendous performance boost.

The new Power Mac G4 systems leverage the highly acclaimed Apple Xserve architecture to deliver the ultimate in computing power. Designed with a clear objective in mind �\ dramatically increased throughput �\ these new desktop workstations combine one or two PowerPC G4 processors, Double Data Rate (DDR) main memory, dedicated L3 cache and integrated I/O to create an extremely responsive system."

<kevin kline voice>
apologise
<end kevin kline voice>

no just kidding, anyone could miss it in all the excitement. and one the other hand, some people just don't want to ackowledge what a big deal it is. These are not just speed bump machines.

[scem0]

but what exactly does 'x-serve architecture' mean? How does it
differ from the previous powermac (other than the obvious stuff ;))

[s_surfer]

I don't see why you are saying this is XServe tech... it's not unlike the old PowerMac tech.

arn


Apple says so in their press release:

Based on Apple's advanced Xserve(TM) architecture... the new
Power Mac G4 line...

They are based on the motherboard introduced in the Xserver.

[arn]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
from the Apple page,

"Cutting-edge Xserve-based system architecture gives the Power Mac G4 a tremendous performance boost.

The new Power Mac G4 systems leverage the highly acclaimed Apple Xserve architecture to deliver the ultimate in computing power. Designed with a clear objective in mind �\ dramatically increased throughput �\ these new desktop workstations combine one or two PowerPC G4 processors, Double Data Rate (DDR) main memory, dedicated L3 cache and integrated I/O to create an extremely responsive system."


Ah - you are correct... very interesting. :)

(added to main page)

arn

[pgwalsh]

I'm impressed with the lower prices of these machines. Even the video card is priced less than you can find it for on PriceWatch.

Two Questions:
Does anyone know what model HD Apple uses in these boxes?

Does anyone know if the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro is Mac and PC compatable or do you have to buy a special mac version?

thank in advance if you have the answer

Also, I imagine xServe would get an update soon. I wonder what they'll do to that beast?

[3G4N]

How can we find out what chips these are?
Finally getting speedy 7455's in decent numbers,
or new 7457's?? My Moto sources said that
the Apollo 7 (I'm assuming the 7457) was in full
production, clocking significant #'s of chips
at 1.6ghz, over 3 months ago.

[Macette]

i can't wait to HEAR one of these things. I mean, I'm almost certainly going to wait for the rumoured IBM chips anyway, but if these newies aren't so noisy, then maybe I'll crack and buy one. The last lot of PowerMacs were NOISY - there's no way I could hack it. My G3's faint hum irritates me enough.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by Macette
i can't wait to HEAR one of these things. I mean, I'm almost certainly going to wait for the rumoured IBM chips anyway, but if these newies aren't so noisy, then maybe I'll crack and buy one. The last lot of PowerMacs were NOISY - there's no way I could hack it. My G3's faint hum irritates me enough. I'm also excited to hear how quiet they are. PC noise drives me nuts. My G3 isn't bad at all, so you must really be sensitive.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Freg3000
A common internet myth is that Apple "overclocked" it's high end G4 processors. This is simply speculation and appears not to be true for the 1.25GHz processors. These appear to be clocked by Motorola at 1.25GHz. The 1.42GHz processors should similarly be assumed to be Motorola parts.

Ok, I don't get this at all. When the 1.25 Ghz came out, everyone said, "it's just a overclocked 1.0 Ghz!" Now the 1.42 Ghz comes out, and some say it's a 1.25 Ghz that is overclocked.

1.0----->1.25
1.25----->1.42

1.0------>1.42?

So by this simple logic, can we say that the 1.42 Ghz is an overclocked 1.0 Ghz? If the next revision of Powermacs gives us 1.6 Ghz are we going to say it's an overclocked 1.42 Ghz?

Can't we all just say that if Motorola produces a chip at 1.42 or 1.25 Ghz, stamps it and sends it to Apple, that is it not overclocked? Once in a while they might produce a fairly speedy chip!


I hope that the mention of overclocking here isn't because of the snide remark I made in the other thread. I thought that it could only be taken as sarcasm, as "overclocking" a 1GHz chip to 1.42GHz is ... well, let's just say "difficult".

My take on it is this: anyone who thought the 1.25GHz chips were overclocked by Apple just because Motorola hasn't gotten around to updating their web site yet should right now explain precisely how Apple managed to overclock an "official" Moto chip to 1.42GHz.

Any takers?

Didn't think so.

As has been said before, the 1.25GHz chips are not "overclocked" 1.0GHz chips. Likewise, the 1.42GHz chips are not overclocked variants of any previously-released chip speed bucket.

Hopefully, this is the end of that stupid but persistent rumor.

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
I'm impressed with the lower prices of these machines. Even the video card is priced less than you can find it for on PriceWatch.

Two Questions:
Does anyone know what model HD Apple uses in these boxes?

Does anyone know if the ATI Radeon 9700 Pro is Mac and PC compatable or do you have to buy a special mac version?

thank in advance if you have the answer

Also, I imagine xServe would get an update soon. I wonder what they'll do to that beast?

All modern video cards work on Macs and PCs. The problems are in getting the BIOS on the card to recognize it's in a mac. I know you can do this with VooDoo cards easily, and nVidia with some effort. The mac cards are "cheaper" because you already pay for the base video card, the $300 is an upgrade fee. You also need drivers, thankfully 10.2.3 has OpenGL 1.4 (?) in it

:¬)

[MasterX (OSiX)]

double posted, Safari kinda f-ed up there. sorry

[richie]

Sort of O/T, I know, but what's with all the negative voting for this news? If this (speed bumps, firewire800, AE, bluetooth, *price drops*, new display) is disappointing people, or some people were expecting a whole lot more, I'd say a good dose of reality is called for.

[kansaigaijin]

they don't bother to read the tech sheets or check the architecture page, they just look at the mhz numbers and whine. a lot of brainwashed people

[Arcady]

Xserve tech? The last PowerMacs were the same thing. It just refers to using DDR RAM and the "new" I/O system.

From the press release in August:

CUPERTINO, California?August 13, 2002?Apple® today unveiled an all new Power Mac G4 line featuring dual PowerPC G4 processors in every model, starting at just $1,699 (US). With dual 1.25 GHz, dual 1 GHz and dual 867 MHz PowerPC G4 processors, the new Xserve high-performance architecture with support for up to 2GB of Double Data Rate (DDR) memory at up to 333 MHz, the industry?s first ATI Radeon 9000 Pro graphics card and an enhanced enclosure with increased storage up to nearly half a terabyte, the new Power Macs are the fastest desktop workstations for creative professionals.

[NanoDoc]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
they don't bother to read the tech sheets or check the architecture page, they just look at the mhz numbers and whine. a lot of brainwashed people
Unfortunately, the Xserve hype on Apples website is the same as for the previous bunch. Do a search on Google and find the cached Technical sheet for the "old" PowerMac MDD and you will see. Also, for information on how important this Xserve technology really is with the 7450 refer to Barefeat.com. Tests of the Quicksilver vs. Xserve vs. MDD are performed there.
All that aside, 1.42 7450 must be fast, but not as fast as the Xserve tech. will help the 74xx and beyond to be.
Also, Apple is doing an excellent job with their hardware and software any way you try to cut it.

[Sun Baked]

ALL the Mirror Drive Door PowerMacs are XServe technology - it's just another way of saying they are using the same chipset (UniNorth/Keylargo) and have DDR memory.

Should be interesting to compare the UniNorth revision numbers between the XServe, old MDD, and the new MDD.

[kansaigaijin]

time flies when you are having fun.
guess it was me not paying attention last summer.
Had other things on my mind.

[Abstract]

Does this X-Serve Technology bear any significance to this recent update or not? I don't think it does, but I want to hear it from someone who's not guessing like I am. ;)

[NanoDoc]

Originally posted by Abstract
Does this X-Serve Technology bear any significance to this recent update or not? I don't think it does, but I want to hear it from someone who's not guessing like I am. ;)
The Xserve was introduced last spring and then the technology created for it, pertaining to the motherboard (ie. I/O integration, DDR, etc.), was then used for the MDD introduced last summer. The only question was if the new 1.42's had something new in that regard and the answer is no. These for all intents and purposes are speed bumps plus FW800, AE, 4x DVD-R, and bluetooth. And realistically this is probably more to introduce the AE and Bluetooth completely into the lineup (Thus, the upcoming very soon iMacs, etc.). Because why would they want to continue making the old airport cards, which I am sure will be discontinued in a matter of months or less. And the introduction of Bluetooth into PowerMacs sort of screams the posibility of wireless keyboards, etc. later. Because Bluetooth phones w/ your PowerMac really does not make much practical sense to most users. But, I digress.

CMH

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by Abstract
Does this X-Serve Technology bear any significance to this recent update or not? I don't think it does, but I want to hear it from someone who's not guessing like I am. ;) If it were truly X-Serve technology you'd be running a entirely new PCI bus (XServe is 64-bit/66 MHz) and running the ATA-100 buses off the PCI bus in Apple Drive modules.

Since nothing has really changed, except for moving the Airport from the ATA bus to PCI bus, adding Firewire 800 (which may have only needed a new Firewire PHY - the chip acting as a hub/power), and making room for blue tooth...

It's doubtful the words XServe Technology has any bearing on the new MDD machines. They applied equally well to the old MDD machines (DDR support in the UniNorth).

XServe Technogy means nothing, it's OLD news....

[edit - Corrected a letter mistake PHY, Don't forget that snazzy new serial port the XServe is sporting ;)]

[JtheLemur]

Once in a while they might produce a fairly speedy chip!

Tee hee hee!

Wait, I don't know if I'm laughing because this could be true, or laughing because it's crap... methinks the latter. :p

Lately, everything coming out of Moto has been garbage. New T7xx series phones, the silver one with the color screen? There are plenty of other color phones that stomp on it. And that's the opinion of MANY reviewers, not just me. And their V70, the one that rotates open, the one that everyone said was sooooo cool... just a repackaged V.7xxx series phone! Still garbage, but in a flashy new outfit. Truth is, Moto just can't cut it - here at work, surrounded by masses of equipment from many companies, and the only one that has a Moto processor at it's heart is my Apple computer. They're just getting stomped on by a ton of other companies it seems - Sanyo, Samsung, and Sony-E in mobiles, and Intel, Hitachi, and TI in the (embedded) proccessor market.

While it's nice to see the PowerMacs updated, I'd really like to see a REAL UPGRADE - just like going fom the old CRT iMacs to the new LCD iMacs. Something REALLY BIG. And at the heart, new processors from NOT MOTOROLA! This upgrade feels like a holdover - perhaps good things are on their way.

[iSmell]

Originally posted by JtheLemur

This upgrade feels like a holdover - perhaps good things are on their way.


That sounds familiar. I thought the first round of MDDs were supposed to be holdovers with their "fake" DDR until the next round of G4s came out that could actually take advantage of it.

[Fender2112]

Does this lineup of Power Macs take full advantage of DDR? I'm still not clear on this.

Thanks

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by Freg3000

Ok, I don't get this at all. When the 1.25 Ghz came out, everyone said, "it's just a overclocked 1.0 Ghz!" Now the 1.42 Ghz comes out, and some say it's a 1.25 Ghz that is overclocked.


No one has every said (correctly) that the chips are oveclocked. That's a myth, it's not true. It's like the myth of a good Pauly Shore movie. The whole point of the paragraph you quoted was to say that they are NOT overclocked.

[NanoDoc]

The new is no different the old. These do not take full advantage of the DDR because of the "bottleneck" on this way out of date Motorola processor. But the monitors sure are spiffy and effectively decreasing DVD burn times by two is probably pretty nice too.

CMH

[iTry]

I was bored while doing dome design...

(I know there's a funny pictures thread but I thought it might be slightly topical...)

[ffakr]

The xServe was the big dog at launch but now it's been met and passed in two revs of the desktop. I wonder what they are holding out for?

I'd have to assume:

Apple won't devote R&D unless the product as a run long enough to recoup cost
Apple will, at some point, push the xServe to a new platform (ie. new chipset, new processor)
The xServe's low volume makes it an attractive platform to launch new technology


If that is all true, could we assume one of the following?:

Apple has foregone regular xserve updates, waiting for all the parts to materialize for a major overhaul.... or
the xServe is marketed as a stand alone server (web server, mail server...), not a 1U number cruncher... so faster processors aren't a big concern since the rest of the system can't keep up in I/O anyway..... or
Maybe Apple will release a rack server that IS designed to be a number cruncher, so they aren't concerned about keeping the CPU power of the xServe on the {Motorola} bleeding edge?


I'm sincerely hoping it's the first reason... :) :D

[ddtlm]

Edit: I see other people already said what I was saying.

[jmoore]

Now that the new lineup is here, I really wanted to purchase the discounted Dual 867. Does anyone have real comparisons about the noise levels of these PowerMacs? I have a Dual 450 (Gigabit Ethernet). Is the Dual 867 any noisier than this bunch?:confused: