Apple Spotlight Patents Hinting at Leopard?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Hrmpf (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/65/a-glimpse-at-apples-os-x-105-leopard/) and Appleinsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1593) are posting images from Apple's recent patent applications surrounding their Spotlight search technology (http://guides.macrumors.com/Spotlight).

The images show different versions of Finder/Spotlight than what has shipped with Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger). Both sites speculate that these may be signs of the interface to come in the next version of Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). Alternatively, they may simply be iterations of Spotlight development that were discarded.

Nested Smart Folders (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/61/nested-smart-folders-in-leopard) are described in one patent application, extending Smart Folder functionality:

Basically, you create a “Smart Folder” (say Files modified last week) and then you can create more smart folders within the original folder (like Kind = images) and then create more folders within that subfolder (like Aperture = f7).

One of the most ambitious features is a process to automatically generate Secondary Meta-data (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/62/spotlight-voice-recognition-and-ocr) for file searches. Apple proposes the use of semantic analysis and even Optical Character Recognition to extract data from photos (Algorithm picture (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrmpf/102309959/)):

This [metadata] is great but it’s not really accessible - what you really want to know is this the picture I took as a closeup that night? This metdata won’t tell you that but what if your computer processed this metadata and added new metadata that better described the photograph (nighttime, closeup and the text from any signs in the photo etc).

Meanwhile, audio analysis of audio files could generate more information about your MP3/AACs. Beyond the usual metadata extraction, Mac OS X could also perform an actual analysis of the songs:

For example .... a frequency analysis (e.g., using spectrum analysis/filtering techniques) may be performed to determine the type of the music (e.g., Jazz or classical), and other audio related information.

[yankeefan24]

i really can't wait for leopard now:D analyze my songs and pictures!!! I'm buying day 1 (unlike tiger):D

[mark88]

I am so so pleased they are at least working on the Finder!!!!!!!

[1dterbeest]

Will it scan your jpg files to see if you are looking at porn? ;)

[ajonessn]

Spotlight doesn't even work most of the time (see Apple's support forums)! I want "piles (http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/stacks.html)," and moreover, "smart piles" to clean up my clutter and complement my folders!

[whooleytoo]

I am very nervously excited.

Nervous, because Spotlight is so far from being a full Finder replacement, I'm worried by Steve's "who still needs the Finder" comments.

Excited, because Spotlight has so much (IMO) unused potential.

[whooleytoo]

Incidentally, someone posted those Spotlight screenshots a few days ago, either here or on Arstechnica. Surprising AppleInsider only is reporting this now.

[boncellis]

I'm excited that someone has put things together to at least speculate on the features and upgrades included within Leopard. Up to this point I was really wondering what the next upgrade could contain.

I think the general trend is toward customizability, with the automatic scanning of data and nested folders. It would be a great benefit to make this sort of custom interface with individual users beyond color schemes and wallpaper.

I don't think the timing of this is an accident, either. How close is Vista to shipping? It would be just like Mr. Jobs to steal MS's thunder. Apple really has an advantage releasing new updates to OS X every year (give or take). How long until MS follows suit?

[lonepilgrim]

Nested Smart Folders are described in one patent application, extending Smart Folder functionality

I wonder how many people will delete half their files, thinking they are safely tucked away in folders........ :eek:

[neoserver]

Just looked at the images... looks very cool.

One thing though... in the images the windows have "iFinder" as their title. I certainly hope they aren't going to take the whole "i" thing to the finder. I much prefer just "Finder."

[whooleytoo]

I'm excited that someone has put things together to at least speculate on the features and upgrades included within Leopard. Up to this point I was really wondering what the next upgrade could contain.


I'd say any new technology in Tiger is likely to be expanded upon and utilised more fully in Leopard. Core Image, Core Audio, Quartz 2D Extreme and Spotlight are the obvious candidates.

(And.. the WWDC might be an excellent date to roll out Leopard, with Vista just around the corner. ;) )

[KindredMAC]

Yeah.... and does anyone remember Piles????

I wouldn't get too excited over this. If it happens then alright....if not, then alright.

[ajonessn]

Yeah.... and does anyone remember Piles????

I wouldn't get too excited over this. If it happens then alright....if not, then alright.


Ooo! Ooo! I do! See my post above!!! Dang it Apple! Produce what we want! The technology isn't that difficult! Especially now that we have Core Imaging!

[boncellis]

I'd say any new technology in Tiger is likely to be expanded upon and utilised more fully in Leopard. Core Image, Core Audio, Quartz 2D Extreme and Spotlight are the obvious candidates.

(And.. the WWDC might be an excellent date to roll out Leopard, with Vista just around the corner. ;) )

Looks like this WWDC will be pretty exciting, if you're right. I usually anticipate MWSF more than WWDC, maybe because I'm not much of a "power" user, at this point. With the date pushed back, the conference looks like it could include a new PowerMac and Leopard along with a slew of potential universal applications. It seems to be shaping up nicely.

[Stridder44]

The pics of the finder look just like the...well, finder. I don't see any difference. (except the "iFinder" thing...God forbid they're going to call it that)

[ASP272]

I'll get excited about Spotlight when it actually works. The fact that I had to go to a developers forum (I am not a developer) to find out how to get Spotlight to search an external Server is ridiculous. The finder in Panther did it so much more better, though it was slower. Spotlight is such a fledgling app, and I am so far very sorely disappointed in Apple not including the older Finder along side Safari. Big negative for me on this one.

[cycocelica]

Spotlight has a lot of room to improve so I hope they do something great

[monkeyandy]

Just when MS releases Vista, Apple will drop this bombshell! :cool:

Sadly all the features that Vista has copied from Tiger wil be upgraded in Leopard. Bring on Vista SP2 Special Business/Home Extended Edition! :D

I'm looking forward to the day they bring out the new iBook/MacBook, i'll snap one in a flash. A few months down the line you can upgrade to Leopard. I bet things will be pretty sweet!

[EricNau]

Sounds very cool.

...Which is good, because Apple will need something very good to compete with MS Vista, not because Vista will actually be better than Tiger or Leopard, but because Windows users just don't get it.

[aussie_geek]

Sadly all the features that Vista has copied from Tiger wil be upgraded in Leopard. Bring on Vista SP2 Special Business/Home Extended Edition! :D

It is sad but this is very true. Now that these features have been openly exposed on the net does anyone see Micro$oft attempting to incorporate these features into Vi$ta as well? :mad:

These new features will be a great addition to our OS. I use Spotlight pretty much all the time now to find stuff. It has revolutionised the way I open documents and files. All I do now is remember that I have something regarding a topic and then just Spotlight it. There is no need to remember where things are on your Mac anymore..


aussie_geek

[guzhogi]

I wonder how much of the GUI is actually going to change. I like the way windows are now with the icon, list & column views. I'm so used to using column view, I think it'll suck if everytime I want to go to some file or something, I have to tell the Finder I want to open an image or audio or whatever format file, then a Photoshop file or something. I'm hoping Apple's smart enough to keep the directory file system, but sometimes software companies do really stupid things. But I'm glad that they're updating the Finder just so it could use Cocoa features.

[Lurch_Mojoff]

Dang, if Apple can pull off even half of these features I'd be damn impressed. Hell, even if they just slightly enhance Finder's UI and metadata awareness in Leopard and leave the fancy features for 10.6, I'd be grateful.

Nevertheless, whenever (or maybe I should say if) these features make it into a final release of Mac OS X, they'll be light years ahead of Windows (or any other OS for that matter) and will make comments like "we have the best OS, with the greatest UI, yada, yada, yada..." form Microsoft sound really stupid.

All I can say is - good luck Apple. Bring us the goodies sooner. :cool:

[Kingsly]

Did anyone else notice this? I sure hope it's for demonstration purposes only.

[iMeowbot]

This really seems to be describing Tiger's Spotlight. The examples are things that each application (Apple or third party) can implement.

[supafly1703]

Bring on the Leopard!

[pizzach]

Will it scan your jpg files to see if you are looking at porn? ;)

I would be interested to see that algorighm. ;)

[zoozx]

Apple, just do me a favor in the next version and fix the friggin finder that has been broken since OSX was released.
After 3 years it's past time!

[shidoshi]

I really hope that indeed Apple is going to be building more on Spotlight, but one of the things that needs to happen is that the bridge between the user and the system as far as adding metadata absolutely must be gapped. I have a lot of image files on my computer, be it for my design projects, pics that I just like, whatever, and I've resorted to making multiple libraries in iPhoto so that I can tag the pics with the different metadata that I want them to have. There needs to be a way directly in the Finder to, say, mark an image with tags on who created it, the theme of the image, color scheme, etc. (And no, simply using the Spotlight box in Get Info does NOT cut it.)

Then, let users get to all of that metadata directly from the Finder. I want to be able to be in, say, List view, and have my screen look and work just like how iTunes works with music - as many columns of info as I could possibly want, sort by any of them, filter things down precisely, etc.

There is A LOT more that needs to be done to the Finder belong just Spotlight integration, though, so I hope Apple isn't just going to do some nifty things with searching and filtering and then call it a day.

(Hmm... change to shamelessly plug the 10.5 Finder mock-up (http://storage.gomorning.com/finder/) I made a number of months back.)

[guzhogi]

Something I'd like to see if Apple adds audio analyzing is having iTunes check what kind of music each song/audio file you have in your library and automatically assign the file the correct genre and equalizer setting but allows the user to change it. Built-in Object-character Recognition would be awesome, too. If they do that, maybe I'll get one of those scanner pen things that looks like a pen but you pass it over a piece of paper and it scans the page. And maybe a pair of those sunglasses w/ built-in flash drive. With both, I can start my career in espionage. >:->

[mkrishnan]

I would be interested to see that algorighm. ;)

Speaking of people willing to work for an annual salary of $1 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=186586&highlight=steve+jobs), I hear that they're hiring engineers to work on this project. :D

[guzhogi]

Something I'd like to see in 10.5 is for it to totally lose support for G3 processors and only support G4s, G5s & Intel. W/ G3 support gone, Apple can make all of Mac OS X be Altivex/SSE accelerated. Also, offload more graphics processing to the graphics card and sound to the sound card. Apple, if you're listening, PLEASE add support for Soundblaster! And awhile ago, I was looking to see what other Open(whatever)Ls there are other than OpenGl and OpenAL and found OpenRL.org. It's like OpenGL where it processes images but whereas OpenGL focuses on making new images, OpenRL focuses on pre-existing images like JPEGs and movie files and helps speed up processing. It's mainly supported by a company calles Aspec Semiconductors (www.aspex-semi.com) which designs these PCI boards to help speed up image processing. It would be cool if Apple partnered w/ Aspex to make some of these boards for Power Mac G5s and future workstations to help speed up Final Cut Pro and other stuff. If Apple Apple includes more offloading and adds these Aspex boards, whatever replaces G5s would scream!

[hugeipod]

I am so so pleased they are at least working on the Finder!!!!!!!


if u look @ the pics, their not workin on the finder, their workin on iFinder

[mkrishnan]

Apple, if you're listening, PLEASE add support for Soundblaster

I never really thought about this, but I guess it would be cool if there were some sort of CoreSound to compliment CoreImage... :)

[hugeipod]

oh umm wats the patent#? i wanna look this up.

[jicon]

If Apple was to do ONE thing with the finder, please allow tree columns that are easy to navigate as is found in... gulp... Windows 98 or later.

Column view blows, and hurts my productivity.

[jicon]

Spotlight images are still disturbing, because search parameters always contain AND.

What if I wanted to do a search like the following:

("Tiger Woods" OR "Arnold Palmer") AND NOT JPEG ???

I know it can be done now, but the methodology is anything but simple.

[Kingsly]

Pleeeeease Apple, DO NOT name it iFinder. Thats just stupid.

[iMeowbot]

oh umm wats the patent#? i wanna look this up.
It's just an application at this point, not a patent. The application number is 11/112422 -- enter that into PAIR (http://portal.uspto.gov/external/portal/pair) to see all the public documents. (The Image File Wrapper and Published Documents tabs usually have the most interesting parts)

[iChan]

I never really thought about this, but I guess it would be cool if there were some sort of CoreSound to compliment CoreImage... :)


they do... it's calling CoreAudio...

[whooleytoo]

I never really thought about this, but I guess it would be cool if there were some sort of CoreSound to compliment CoreImage... :)


I think CoreAudio already fits the bill - a plugin architecture for adding realtime audio effects. ;)

[mkrishnan]

I think CoreAudio already fits the bill - a plugin architecture for adding realtime audio effects. ;)

Eeek, sorry. Shows you what I know. :(

I take it doesn't allow you to divert sound operations to the sound card, though?

[boncellis]

Pleeeeease Apple, DO NOT name it iFinder. Thats just stupid.

Amen to that. One possibility that occurred to me is that whatever the Finder improvements entail, they could include a tighter integration with the iLife suite. Rather than having to sift through folders to put particular photos in particular places, just drop it in the "Pictures" area of the Finder and iPhoto takes over to organize them for you according to the date (or alphabetically if you want).

On a side note, if such metadata analysis of photos is incorporated, isn't including the ability to create mosaics (http://www.picturemosaics.com/) in iPhoto just a formality? (I'm exaggerating for effect.)

[whooleytoo]

Eeek, sorry. Shows you what I know. :(

I take it doesn't allow you to divert sound operations to the sound card, though?

Not that I'm aware of.. not sure I understand though, what are you trying to do?

(Incidentally, if interested in CoreAudio Audio Units, take a look at Rogue Amoeba's take on them. (http://tinyurl.com/evnso))

[hugeipod]

thank you!!:) :D

[deanbo]

Just in case you repeatedly dropped the wrong files into the wrong folders.:( :confused:

[Analog Kid]

Spotlight doesn't even work most of the time (see Apple's support forums)! I want "piles (http://homepage.mac.com/rdas7/stacks.html)," and moreover, "smart piles" to clean up my clutter and complement my folders!
Don't need to check the forums, I can ask someone I trust-- me. Spotlight has been a godsend. I use it rarely, but when I do it solves problems that nothing else could.

Piles would do the opposite of spotlight for me-- it would hide more things.

I wonder how many people will delete half their files, thinking they are safely tucked away in folders........ :eek:
Holy cow! You're right-- this could be a huge problem. It's been hard enough to get people to understand folders and directories-- getting them to understand that folders and spotlight are two ways of viewing the same file is going to be tough for some people.

Maybe Leopard adds a Dumpster? Delete to Trash. Empty Trash to Dumpster. Empty Dumpster.

It is sad but this is very true. Now that these features have been openly exposed on the net does anyone see Micro$oft attempting to incorporate these features into Vi$ta as well? :mad:
That's the role of a patent: you instruct your peers about the invention in exchange for limited exclusivity.

automatically assign the file the correct genre and equalizer setting
Danger! Third Rail!
Stay Back!

[whooleytoo]

Piles would do the opposite of spotlight for me-- it would hide more things.


Well, that's actually one of the problems that the Spotlight here might help solve - Spotlight finds too much, and doesn't provide an easy means to refine the search.

[Analog Kid]

Well, that's actually one of the problems that the Spotlight here might help solve - Spotlight finds too much, and doesn't provide an easy means to refine the search.
That's the key. Not much to do when you get 2500 hits. Searching within results is really what's needed. Even if it just didn't tie up my keyboard while searching so I could add and remove terms more easily.

I think the Spotlight we've seen is the first step (obviously). They got the indexing in place and put a basic interface on it so that it would be helpful to most but not complicated enough to really break. Leopard is when the feature will come into its own...

[Analog Kid]

This really seems to be describing Tiger's Spotlight. The examples are things that each application (Apple or third party) can implement.
You're right. I just looked at the claims on the application and they're all just basic Spotlight claims (indexing notifications, heterogeneous metadata, excluded folders, etc).

That said, there is some chance that the preferred embodiment will get fleshed out a little more. There's an incentive to be as broad as possible in your thinking when filing for a patent though.

Why does the USPTO interface suck so bad? These are all public documents, I should be able to just pull down a full PDF.

[iMeowbot]

Spotlight does have the ability to refine searches. Use its Cmd-F interface from the Finder, it's far more powerful than the menu bar tool!

[Analog Kid]

Spotlight does have the ability to refine searches. Use its Cmd-F interface from the Finder, it's far more powerful than the menu bar tool!
It's still not mature enough. It's too complicated and not flexible enough. I can't quantify that, but I can feel it.

[iMeowbot]

It's still not mature enough. It's too complicated and not flexible enough. I can't quantify that, but I can feel it.
Yes, the boolean syntax is strange, for starters. I do feel as though it's really some smallish interface tweaking, rather than a major overhaul, that it really wants.

[DakotaGuy]

I am sure all of the "cool" features in 10.5 will probably require an Intel processor. I am sure it will still run on PowerPC, but will probably not be optimized for it and will run slower. Apple will find a way to make sure we all upgrade soon.

[Analog Kid]

I am sure all of the "cool" features in 10.5 will probably require an Intel processor. I am sure it will still run on PowerPC, but will probably not be optimized for it and will run slower. Apple will find a way to make sure we all upgrade soon.
I don't know about that... Apple has a pretty good track record of supporting legacy hardware. There's things like Quartz Extreme where older hardware simply can't handle it, but they back off the functionality very gracefully for older systems.

[tjwett]

looks like they are keeping Dominic Giampaolo nice and busy over there. the Finder is becoming more and more BeOS-like with every release. awesome.

[Platform]

I am sure all of the "cool" features in 10.5 will probably require an Intel processor. I am sure it will still run on PowerPC, but will probably not be optimized for it and will run slower. Apple will find a way to make sure we all upgrade soon.

I don''t think so...as someone said, they did but that is hardware restriction, they will make it run great on PPC's as well (People with Quad G5's not being able to use all features...nah)

I got the Rev C iMac with FrontRow etc...they will make Leopard do just fine and much better than Tiger on both the PPC and Intel CPU's ;)

[odedia]

Instead of all these really cool add-ons, I simply want a Mac operating system that can handle right-to-left text without problems. Is that too much to ask? I want to write in Hebrew in Pages & Keynote and have the cursor move in the right direction and have the text shown correctly. It would be great to have a fully translated right-to-left OS X in full Hebrew/Arabic menus, FROM RIGHT TO LEFT. I want to import right-to-left word documents and have them shown correctly. I want to surf right-to-left sites IN SAFARI (instead of firefox) and have them shown correctly.

In this very specific one aspect, Microsoft is light-years ahead of Apple. Too bad, they're loosing a population of over 1 billion potential customers.

Oded S.

[ro2nie]

If you go to airliners.net and do a search for some planes' pictures, you can then select one of your choice and perform a "view similar" search. This method searches for similar pixels on other photos that are in their database. It is amazingly accurate!!

I'd love if Mac OS X Leopard and may be iPhoto could have a "view similar photo" capability.

This method is called "Semantics-sensitive Retrieval for Digital Picture Libraries"
more info (http://www.dlib.org/dlib/november99/wang/11wang.html)

[Josias]

Tiger was mostly little extras, these 200 new features. I hope Leopard comes with something revolutioning. Perhaps the iKillWindows? :D

[ScottB]

I want to see the removal of finder and a spotlight like facility that uses all smart folders (course keeping the underlaying structure). Also, added support for alternative window managers or themes, (Aqua's the best, but I always want choice). Also, get rid of NetInfo and binary config files and let me edit me customise my system like I want to!

[jouster]

Just looked at the images... looks very cool.

One thing though... in the images the windows have "iFinder" as their title. I certainly hope they aren't going to take the whole "i" thing to the finder. I much prefer just "Finder."

I agree. But companies do this because 'made-up' names are easier to protect than plain English.

Trying to protect "Crispy Cream" would be very hard. Both words are standard, common-use terms. But "Krispy Kreme" is not.

Just when MS releases Vista, Apple will drop this bombshell! :cool:


I'm not sure an updated Finder - or even an iFinder - qualifies as a bombshell....

[ScottB]

One thing though... in the images the windows have "iFinder" as their title. I certainly hope they aren't going to take the whole "i" thing to the finder. I much prefer just "Finder."
Yep, I'm sure everybody here would agree. iFinder would be awful.

Oh, and give us emblems that will help people to recognise individual folders quicker and show you what is executable or dangerous etc.

[Project]

Tiger was mostly little extras, these 200 new features. I hope Leopard comes with something revolutioning. Perhaps the iKillWindows? :D

Not really. Despite Dashboard and Spotlight, Tiger was a developmental release. An awful lot of technollogy went into Tiger, but it was left unexposed by the GUI. That my friend, is what Leopard will do. Make full use of this technology.

Take Spotlight for instance. The GUI hampers its potential massively. I mean, open up Terminal for isntance and type mdls then drag any media file onto there. Look at the metadata it contains. Spotlight technology also alloows for arbitrary metadata to be entered into a file too, but this is basically rubbish at the moment in terms of implementation. The Spotlight technology is quite powerful, but the key is making it useable. "spotlight comments" is something of an insult. As are the "smart folders". I need to use complicated syntax in order to make it useful. These patents however give me hope. The fact there is a Projects and Keywords category exposed directly within Finder is a good thing. The key is to make assigning metadata to files as painless as possible, much like it is in Vista. Having to right click a file, tab to Spotlight Comments and enter information is useless. I want to set up my own fields! Like a "Lecturer" field, or a "Project" field, and assign files to those by simply dragging them onto a *hotspot*, that automatically tags it as necessary. I want a Rating field, so I can assign ratings to pieces of research or articles depending on the quality, much like iPhoto has at the moment. I should also be able to easily search for photos rated 5 stars from within Finder too.

Spotlight has massive potential and thats why a lot of people are disappointed, especially because iTunes metadata implementation is beautiful.... but I am of the believe that Apple just wanted to get Spotlight out there as a precursor to Vista, and the REAL Spotlight that is fully featured will be coming in Leopard. Its hard to think otherwise when you have geniuses like Giampaolo in your ranks.

[encro]

The pics of the finder look just like the...well, finder. I don't see any difference. (except the "iFinder" thing...God forbid they're going to call it that)

Pffttt... Your giving Apple too much credit. Apple is good at finding really dumb names for products lately eg: Bonjour, MacBook Pro (although I'm kind of used to this name now) and now possibly iFinder.
But at the end of the day you have to brand a product with a name and I doubt we will even notice the Finder rebranding much. The MetaBrowse title in the other screenshot sounds cooler, more geeky but not a good choice for something trying to appeal to the consumer space.

[encro]

Tiger was mostly little extras, these 200 new features. I hope Leopard comes with something revolutioning. Perhaps the iKillWindows? :D


Tiger was honestly a boring upgrade but just like Project said in post #67 is was all about getting the foundations right. There was a lot of changes that were not apparent to most people in the interface as it was very much in the background, core data, core image, launchd, H.264, xgrid, Device Aggregation, Fine Grain Locking, , Access Control Lists, 64bit frameworks and metadata to name a few of the most relevant. Of course Apple still managed to screw a few things up only like Apple is capable such as re-implementing resource forks in more places, binary plist files and completely unnecessary messing with standard unix tools such as cp and mv when we already had ditto but overall it sets something up that is going to work well in the future when you start getting proper access via the UI.

[whooleytoo]

Tiger was honestly a boring upgrade but just like Project said in post #67 is was all about getting the foundations right.

That's a result of how Apple's OS teams have worked for the last few years.
Every second "major" release was a major technology update (Jaguar introduced Quartz Extreme, Rendevous, the Address Book API and many more), Panther by and large just took advantage of those features to a greater extent, then Tiger was another technology release (Spotlight, Core Image, Core Video, Quartz 2D Extreme etc.).

However, reportedly the teams have been merged now, which is why I expect Leopard to be a 'big bang' release, and to leverage the new Tiger APIs to a large extent.

[mkrishnan]

Not that I'm aware of.. not sure I understand though, what are you trying to do?

I'm not trying to do *anything*... I was responding to a comment on the first page. To be honest, I've never had a complaint about the audio performance of my Macs...except perhaps that the BONG is too loud (fixable) and the clicks for changing the volume of brightness level lag on my iBook G4/800 (I'll live with it). But beyond that, I was just responding to the previous poster, clearly in an area in which I am way over my head. ;)

[guzhogi]

I really doubt all the "cool" features would be Intel only because they just started shipping the first Intel Macs two months ago. They're too new, not everyone bought them, plus Power Macs and xServes haven't made the transition yet so they'll be leaving out all those people. I really hope Apple isn't stupid enough to make everyone have to upgrade to Intels. The only hardware I see them dropping is the PoerPC G3. All Macs have had G4s or better for years now and enough people now probably have a G4/G5/Intel to justify dropping G3 support. And look at Panther and Tiger: Panther needs built-in USB so bye-bye to beige G3s. Then Tiger needed built-in Firewire so bye-bye first G3 iMacs. Dropping G3s would be the next logical step. Plus, this would allow Apple to better optimize all of Mac OS X to use Altivec or SSE. I really doubt Mac OS X would be Intel only until 10.7, 10.6 maybe. If 10.6 still allows PowerPCs, it would probably need G4s or better and something like AGP graphics.

[backdraft]

Pffttt... Your giving Apple too much credit. Apple is good at finding really dumb names for products lately eg: Bonjour, MacBook Pro (although I'm kind of used to this name now) and now possibly iFinder.
But at the end of the day you have to brand a product with a name and I doubt we will even notice the Finder rebranding much. The MetaBrowse title in the other screenshot sounds cooler, more geeky but not a good choice for something trying to appeal to the consumer space.

True, though I think Apple should drop "Finder" all together and call it "Desktop". If Apple hopes to make it big with business they have to drop the "cute" stuff (e.g. smiley face Finder). Replace the Finder icon with the Desktop icon and rename to Desktop.

[RoboCop001]

True, though I think Apple should drop "Finder" all together and call it "Desktop". If Apple hopes to make it big with business they have to drop the "cute" stuff (e.g. smiley face Finder). Replace the Finder icon with the Desktop icon and rename to Desktop.

I think the simley face would make the business world less boring and cold, and more happy.

And if not... well it's a lot nicer than a generic desktop icon. Just my opinion.

I think it's fine in the business world. Even if it's a little "cute", but it's not overly so. It's just nice.

[puuukeey]

I've read some papers on analyzing recorded music for metadata. they are just not up to par enough to distribute to the masses.

it is possible.... Using FFT or frequency analysis alone to do it totaly BS. that would be like taking those "jazz" "rock" "pop" settings on your stereo and applying it to one of the hardest most diverse things to analyze on your computer...

44100 samples a fricken second

on the other hand, there have been some papers on working on audio DIRECTLY in the compressed domain HOLY CRAP!!!!!! so anythings possible.

[bigandy]

sounds good. i'm quite interested to see how it'll turn out...

[mbabauer]

Instead of all these really cool add-ons, I simply want a Mac operating system that can handle right-to-left text without problems...It would be great to have a fully translated right-to-left OS X in full Hebrew/Arabic menus, FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

Just look at it in the mirror. Then everything would be right to left! :)

[mbabauer]

Its funny...most of the posts I am reading have more to do with the UI. What got me most excited was this idea of 2nd processing the metadata. Maybe its because I am a HUGE geek, but this seems like an awesome "why the h@ll didn't they do this before" idea!

Picture taking a picture, and the OS automatically discovers the word "nike" on your hat, that it was taken in the afternoon, etc, etc. Or saving the words to an MP3 song so that you can search your drive for lyrics. That just blows my mind!

To heck with the UI...I want some of that metadata processing power in my Mac!

[BWhaler]

I for one am most excited about the thinking and the changes.

Spotlight is very promising in Tiger, but falls woefully short of its potential. Tiger, in general is pretty rough with many missed opportunities.

But I hope Jobs, Ives, and the power crew at Apple are spending a lot of time to make Leopard leapfrog Vista. This is OS battle is one for the history books since Jobs was not around in 95.

[whooleytoo]

Its funny...most of the posts I am reading have more to do with the UI. What got me most excited was this idea of 2nd processing the metadata. Maybe its because I am a HUGE geek, but this seems like an awesome "why the h@ll didn't they do this before" idea!

a) Maybe we're a bit sceptical that this will work well..

or

b) We're terrified witless at the privacy implications if this does work well!
;)

[phil989]

whatever they do, for god's sake don't call it 'iFinder'. eurgh!!!!!

i already have a ton of annoyingly named 'i' somethings in my application, the last thing we need id a clone of Microsoft's: "my computer, my documents, my this, my that". of course its mine, whose else would it be?....:P

Phil

[Platform]

whatever they do, for god's sake don't call it 'iFinder'. eurgh!!!!!

i already have a ton of annoyingly named 'i' somethings in my application, the last thing we need id a clone of Microsoft's: "my computer, my documents, my this, my that". of course its mine, whose else would it be?....:P

Phil

Why should they change the name, they'll just say "and we have a brand new re-designed Finder" ;)

[dtaylor322]

I think nested smart folders (i.e. nested search results) would be a neat addition to the Finder. Having said that...

This idea DOES NOT deserve patent protection. There is PLENTY of prior art in this area. It is yet another example of lawyers taking advantage of a U.S. Patent Office that will grant a patent for anything. (I'm seriously considering filing for a patent on the process to make babies and then charging the entire human race when they "process" together.)

I'm normally very pro-property rights, pay for all my software, music, and movies, and am a strong defender of copyrights and commercial software. But I'm sick of Apple and Microsoft and the rest trying to patent every little obvious idea they think will earn them another buck. Nested searching...been there, done that Apple. Spend more time making spotlight work well so people can actually use it, and less time trying to patent everything.

This is almost as bad as Microsoft trying to patent IsNot. What's next? Apple will patent 1's and Microsoft 0's and we'll see if they can each create an OS using one half of the digits available in the binary system.

[zigzag]

I hope this will finally be a rewrite and no more freezing/constant crashing... and some proper threading would be nice. Fix the damn Finder! Its the center of the OS and it doesn't work!

[encro]

I hope this will finally be a rewrite and no more freezing/constant crashing... and some proper threading would be nice. Fix the damn Finder! Its the center of the OS and it doesn't work!

Couldn't have said that more elegantly, you are spot on! FTFF ⌘C⌘V

[RoboCop001]

I've only used Tiger a few times, and maybe I just didn't see it but...

Is there a "Selection" search like in Panther? You know, in the Finder tool bar you can choose to search "Everywhere", "Local Disks", etc?

I always find the Selection search very useful. Does Spotlight have this in the finder search bar?

[iMeowbot]

Is there a "Selection" search like in Panther? You know, in the Finder tool bar you can choose to search "Everywhere", "Local Disks", etc?
Yes. The search interface in Finder acts pretty much the same, but the guts underneath are very different.

[Plymouthbreezer]

Grrr.. I'm gunna need an Intel Mac by next year, so I can take full advantage of the new OS!

Hopefully, Leopard will still run on older PPC machines. Although if it didn't run on my G3, I'd be fine with that. I'm hoping to see early (800 MHz are earlier) G4 support.

[ChrisA]

I am sure all of the "cool" features in 10.5 will probably require an Intel processor. I am sure it will still run on PowerPC, but will probably not be optimized for it and will run slower. Apple will find a way to make sure we all upgrade soon.

I think you are half right. It will run slower but the compiler (xcode uses gcc) does a good job of optimizing for the PPC and wil continue to be at least as good. In fact gcc is getting better at this al the time.

As someone who has maintained software for muliple platforms I can tell you they will be highly motivated to keep a singfle code base with as few processor specific things as possable. Every time the code splits you double your on-going test and maintenace effort and this effort must be continues to the "end of time".

What will likely happen is the engineers at Apple will thing "we can do XXX now because we have fast CPUs" so they do XXX and of course it still works on the G3. 10 years ago they never would have concidered doing complex SQL querries in the background as a user types. SQL was something you did on those big machines in the server room, but now it's easy to do on a litle Intel powered MBP.