Video of Windows XP Booting on iMac

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Engadget posts (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/15/xp-on-mactel-the-movie/) a video of Windows XP booting on the iMac submitted by narf2006. Narf2006 previously posted photos of the WindowsXP on the Mac on Monday (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060313232826.shtml) as a possible solution to the WinXP on Mac Contest (http://www.winxponmac.com/).

The infamous narf2006 has made good on his earlier promise to provide a video of Windows XP booting on an Intel-based iMac. While the video looks fairly convincing, we'll continue to reserve judgment at least until Colin Nederkoorn hands narf a check

The forum (http://forum.onmac.net/) hosting the discussion about the contest were temporarily offline due to excess traffic. The solution is reportedly under testing at this time.

[miloblithe]

Exciting, although I can't really think of any Windows apps I need.

[Jerry Spoon]

I can't say that I'd ever do this, but I understand that because of some software and work requirements that others might want to do this.

And if it leads to the sale of more Macs, I'm all for it. :D

[PtMD]

w00t! The solution is currently in testing. I hope they see good results and the solution is published soon. I have a MBP just itching to try it out! :)

[Detlev]

I feel so violated.

[simie]

I think that he should invest in a tripod - He will get one cheap off Ebay

What was that boot loader with the white screen with the windows logo on it- it seemed to take a while before XP booted -could this be VM Ware under linux or a fake full screen movie being played on a Mac hence the shaky camera movements to hide things.

I can't why this persons shooting is so wobbly.

[capran]

Interesting. The "video is fairly convincing", I'd agree. Except for that odd initial boot screen, white with the Windows XP logo? I've NEVER seen that anywhere! XP boots on a PC with an initial black screen with the words Windows XP with the logo, and in 16 color VGA mode. Perhaps this is from the EFI-> BIOS hack the used?

But otherwise looks authentic to me. It's apparently missing a lot of drivers for system devices, I wonder where he can get those.

[settledown]

It looks pretty real to me.

I'd wonder if they somehow pulled the vid cable and are using the iMac like an external monitor for a Win box.

But I'm just speculating.

This looks like they really got Windows running on a Mac. BIG QUESTION is if they can easily switch to boot in OS X?

[capran]

I think that he should invest in a tripod - He will get one cheap off Ebay

Yes! Video quality was not so good, especially when he was moving around so much. It looks like he tried to focus on the CPU name on the System Properties window, but it was completely unreadable due to blurring and compression artifacts.

[~Shard~]

The hacker and Engineer in me says, "Cool, well done!", as I always like this type of "problem-solving" and whatnot. ;) :cool: Practically though, for me at least, it isn't that big of a deal. I use my Windows box very sparingly, and don't have a real need for having XP (or in the future, Vista) on my Mac. However that being said, if I could dual boot in this manner, I could pretty much get rid of my PC and only use my Mac for everything - so that would be nice. :cool:

I see this being very attractive for Mac users who need those 1 or 2 elusive Windows-only apps for their profession. This would also come in handy for web designers who use Macs but need to test their sites' compatibility with IE. :cool:

[GFLPraxis]

YESSS! Now I can replace my PC!

[PtMD]

I think that he should invest in a tripod - He will get one cheap off Ebay

I think the movement was in part due to the fact people were crying fake on the photos, the thought being a moving camera angle would be harder to fake.

[thegreatunknown]

great now we have a crappy OS on amazing hardware. just what I want.

[rabatjoie]

so i guess all those who called fake on the flickr photos yesterday have to eat their shoe now. *live* on macrumors :p :D

[decksnap]

What format are the drives in these things? I'm confused because I thought XP doesn't recognize HFS. I guess I'm just slow...:confused:

[~Shard~]

great now we have a crappy OS on amazing hardware. just what I want.

But now I can get rid of my PC and use ZSNES and PokerStars on my Mac! :p ;)

[Twenty1]

I honestly think I'm motion sick after watching that video...

[rog]

Cool video of an iMac G5 running VPC in full screen mode. No attempt at all in the video to prove it's an intel model.

[macattack5]

excuse my noobishness, but if you boot up windows on a mac will windows still run at the same speed as osx?

[~Shard~]

I honestly think I'm motion sick after watching that video...

I think many other Mac purists would be sick after watching it as well, moreso due to the content rather than the motion itself however. ;) :cool:

[iBunny]

Well hopefully this is legit... I want XP/ Vista onmy iMac.
Somethings are just so much better / smoother on Windows than on the Mac.

I would primarily use OSX 90% of the time. But for those odd things, or whatever... windows is handy.

w00t

[Max on Macs]

I can't say that I'd ever do this, but I understand that because of some software and work requirements that others might want to do this.

And if it leads to the sale of more Macs, I'm all for it. :D
I'm for it so long as the people who buy them don't JUST use Windows. I don't want MacOS to be neglected, and I like to think that eventually it'll be as important to software developers as Windows is - even if this does mean an increase in security flaws found, it means Apple will have to work harder in that department.

[Peace]

This could have far reaching effects in the software industry..
Some good...Some bad...
Are developers going to just forget about OS X and stick with Windows?

I really believe if the solution is a viable one and doesn't break any laws it's going to force Steve Job's hand in making OS X for PeeCees..

Just watch..

And the solution is real...
It has been handed over to 9 people for testing
http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1

[PtMD]

Cool video of an iMac G5 running VPC in full screen mode. No attempt at all in the video to prove it's an intel model.

The device manger hardware doesnt match up with VPC or VMWare. Not to mention this video is from the same solution currently in testing on the contest website.

[cr2sh]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?

[Spanky Deluxe]

Looks like I'll finally be able to ditch my PCs when the Intel PowerMacs come out now. I'm so excited; and I just can't hide it...

[Abulia]

YESSS! Now I can replace my PC!Mine's already gone but I'm with you! XP Gaming machine! :D

I can't understand those that point to this video (or the pics from Monday) and claim "fake"; there's enough evidence to the contrary.

[kjs862]

I rated this thread as negative. For me Apple computers represent a product that is exclusive, when you factor the fact that you can add a Microsoft OS onto a Apple computer, it makes it less exclusive.

I think a big part of Apple's success as far as ease of use is concerned has to do with their tight integration within their own products. For example iTunes and the iPod. If they loose this and allow Microsoft's OS to boot up on Apple's computers who knows what will happen. We may find more virus's heading our way, or we might find all other windows glitches on our Apple computers. I can understand how people need applications that just run on Microsoft's OS, but if that's the case don't buy a Apple computer, or buy both. Just my two cents.

Ken

[Kingsly]

I would rather have virtualization... but oh well. I really don't see myself partitioning my MBP HDD.
On the other hand... I WANT GAMES... AND A TOOL TO DIS MY MAC HATING FRIENDS!!!!!!

[~Shard~]

I really believe if the solution is a viable one and doesn't break any laws it's going to force Steve Job's hand in making OS X for PeeCees..

I always thought this would be the case regardless. It would be very cool for Jobs to announce that Leopard runs natively on PCs - and ideally that Leopard would have an earlier release date than Vista. :eek: ;)

"Microsoft is about to release 10.4 Tiger - er, Vista. Well, we're going to repalce that year-old OS with Leopard before it's even released. And it runs on PCs." :p :D

[iSee]

What's with narf2006 and/or blanka?

They can hack the hell out of a Mac, BIOS, Windows XP, etc., but they can't operate a camera, video or still. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It wasn't just the motion making me sick, though. It was pretty disquieting to watch Windows boot up on that iMac. :(

...and I contributed $20 to the contest.

Anyway, contragulations to narf et. al. and thanks. I'll be able to afford a MacBook quicker now that I don't have to get a new Windows machine too.

[~Shard~]

I think a big part of Apple's success as far as ease of use is concerned has to do with their tight integration within their own products. For example iTunes and the iPod. If they loose this and allow Microsoft's OS to boot up on Apple's computers who knows what will happen. We may find more virus's heading our way, or we might find all other windows glitches on our Apple computers.

It does bring up some important questions regarding drivers, compatibility, performance, and security. For instance, what if the machine is infected with a virus while running Windows? What if it performs some OS-agnostic activity on the machine, i.e. frying the HDD or something? Then OS X's secuirty is irrelevant.

One way or the other, for good or for worse, this will make things a whole new ballgame. :cool:

[usarioclave]

Well, everyone in the last thread who doubted the accomplishment, time to eat the big black bird.

Oh, and fyi, all it takes to whack any problem is a little bit of brains and a lot of perspective. Any problem is easy if you look at it the right way.

[kugino]

all of you who think you can throw away your PCs are jumping the gun, even if the video is indeed real. who knows how much hacking went on and what the repercussions will be to your mac. hacking EFI is not something to be taken lightly and whether or not this will be a viable alternative to other BIOS emulators is uncertain.

it's still pretty cool, though...although i'd never put windows on my mac, it's a cool feat.

[RichP]

The naysayers about the video amaze me. These guys dont have much motivation to fake a complete video. And they most likely care less about "proving" anything to anyone beyond what they have shown. They post images, you guys think they are pshopped. They post a video, and its VPC running. They are most busy getting this thing ready-to-release than producing a professional video.

I hope to be running windows on my MBP, with Solidworks and other PC programs soon, I cant wait!

[puckhead193]

I think many other Mac purists would be sick after watching it as well, moreso due to the content rather than the motion itself however. ;) :cool:
*running to the toilet* i don't know which is wourse. I think Microsoft should release a version of XP for the "mac" cause a lot of people would use it who are force to use that one annoying application (solitaire) that available for PC only

[~Shard~]

Anyway, contragulations to narf et. al. and thanks. I'll be able to afford a MacBook quicker now that I don't have to get a new Windows machine too.

I guess that would be one way to look at it too. In my situation, my seldom-used PC in about 8 years old. It still runs perfectly fine and everything, and runs great with XP, but if it died on me, I would be hard-pressed to justify purchasing a new PC for the limited use I get out of it. Even a $400 Dell would be a hard sell for me. But, if I could use my existing Mac's hardware and just load XP/Vista on it to meet my needs, that would make a lot more sense.

[alec]

Sweet. The only reason I would like XP is for playing games, and I'm sure there are some people on the same boat as me. Plus it'll feel kinda cool to have two OS's on one computer :)

[t^3]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?
I've seen a screenshot of XP recognizing a system with dual quad-core processors (Kentsfield), effectively 8 cores.

[crees!]

I think that he should invest in a tripod - He will get one cheap off Ebay

What was that boot loader with the white screen with the windows logo on it- it seemed to take a while before XP booted -could this be VM Ware under linux or a fake full screen movie being played on a Mac hence the shaky camera movements to hide things.

I can't why this persons shooting is so wobbly.

It's so wobble because it was done without a tripod and it wasn't a steady cam. I hate to say this but the windows logo on the white/gray background actually looked good. My question is can you do this from an external HD because I would only use Windows so often for specfic projects.

[~Shard~]

all of you who think you can throw away your PCs are jumping the gun, even if the video is indeed real. who knows how much hacking went on and what the repercussions will be to your mac. hacking EFI is not something to be taken lightly and whether or not this will be a viable alternative to other BIOS emulators is uncertain.

Totally agree - that machine might boot up XP just fine, but runs it slower than molasses in January - as the OS X partition (or however it is set up) might be forever damaged.

But this at least shows that it can be done, and in the future, it may indeed become a viable, stable option. I know I personally will not be applying any type of hack like this until the risks are gone.

[Macnoviz]

What's with narf2006 and/or blanka?

They can hack the hell out of a Mac, BIOS, Windows XP, etc., but they can't operate a camera, video or still. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It wasn't just the motion making me sick, though. It was pretty disquieting to watch Windows boot up on that iMac. :(

...and I contributed $20 to the contest.

Anyway, contragulations to narf et. al. and thanks. I'll be able to afford a MacBook quicker now that I don't have to get a new Windows machine too.

Anyone who ever (tried) to "photoshop" a video, knows it's a lot harder to edit an unstable picture, I think that's mainly the reason he doesn't use a tripod
Also, I would be pretty exited seeing Windows boot on an iMac, with shaky hands and such.

This is a small step for man, but a giant leap for Apple

[puckhead193]

u think it could be a fake and someone who knows how to use chroma key :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

Oh, and fyi, all it takes to whack any problem is a little bit of brains and a lot of perspective.

Yeah, the Engineer in me loves problem solving like this. ;)

Any problem is easy if you look at it the right way.

Okay - solve poverty then. :p :D

[Passante]

Solitaire, here I come!:D

[age234]

I can't see much good coming out of this.

When all kinds of people have Windows on their Macs and they start getting all the viruses that go along with it, think of the bad press Apple is going to get. They'll never mention that it's *Windows* getting the viruses, just that thousands of viruses are on peoples' Macs.

And since security (through obscurity or otherwise) is one of Apple's big plusses right now, when that's gone (rightly or wrongly), then what?

Not to mention that dual-booting is a pain in the a$$. I had to do it several times a day for two months, and it was horrific.

If we want to climb into the conspiracy theory tree, we never saw anyone operating anything. It could have been a video playing fullscreen.

[Hunts121]

But now I can get rid of my PC and use ZSNES and PokerStars on my Mac! :p ;)


you know there is Snes9x for mac os x right? ;)

[crees!]

I can't see much good coming out of this.

When all kinds of people have Windows on their Macs and they start getting all the viruses that go along with it, think of the bad press Apple is going to get. They'll never mention that it's *Windows* getting the viruses, just that thousands of viruses are on peoples' Macs.

And since security (through obscurity or otherwise) is one of Apple's big plusses right now, when that's gone (rightly or wrongly), then what?

Not to mention that dual-booting is a pain in the a$$. I had to do it several times a day for two months, and it was horrific.

That's why there's 2 options I know of. Do it like this guy and have it boot on up like a regular pc or use an emulator. The emluator will provide an added layer of protection to the rest of your harddrive. It just depends on your needs.

[wheezy]

Congrats to them. I'm sure they probably had a lot of fun doing it too! It's always fun to troubleshoot when you want to, so a big congrats to them. Sure, the camera was shaky and compression sucked. I'd like to see them re'encode in H.264 so we can get some good sharp video on it.

Although i wasn't expecting it, I thought the Windows logo on white was pretty darn cool. Even though I don't think Windows is pretty darn cool.

[age234]

That's why there's 2 options I know of. Do it like this guy and have it boot on up like a regular pc or use an emulator. The emluator will provide an added layer of protection to the rest of your harddrive. It just depends on your needs.
Well, I'm all for that. But didn't Microsoft kill VirtualPC for Intel? I don't claim to know much about these things.

[~Shard~]

you know there is Snes9x for mac os x right? ;)

Does it allow for network play over the Internet? I always play games with a friend of mine... If so, scratch one more app that I need my PC for... :D

[p0intblank]

Awaiting the results sure is exciting. :D

I don't see why a lot of people are upset, though. It's not like Apple sells OS X for Windows boxes and Microsoft now sells Windows XP for Apple computers. This is purely a user choice. It's just there... you don't have to use it. I already have a Windows box, so I won't be installing XP on a Mac anytime soon. Vista... that may be another story, as it's still a ways off. I have a G4 computer anyway, so this doesn't affect me.

But in my opinion, I still think it's cool that it is finally happening. A lot of people are going to be very happy about this.

[crees!]

Well, I'm all for that. But didn't Microsoft kill VirtualPC for Intel?
Not the last I heard. It's just going to be a while till it's released. It would be cool if it came out when the new Powermacs are released.

[wheezy]

Okay - solve poverty then. :p :D

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Give when they need it, not for their entire life.

And for the sake of humanity get rid of the corrupt politicians. Wait, then there would be none! Catch 22! :D

[crees!]

Congrats to them. I'm sure they probably had a lot of fun doing it too! It's always fun to troubleshoot when you want to, so a big congrats to them. Sure, the camera was shaky and compression sucked. I'd like to see them re'encode in H.264 so we can get some good sharp video on it.

Although i wasn't expecting it, I thought the Windows logo on white was pretty darn cool. Even though I don't think Windows is pretty darn cool.

If it was recorded by a cellphone then you can forget getting a higher quality version.

[~Shard~]

Not the last I heard. It's just going to be a while till it's released. It would be cool if it came out when the new Powermacs are released.

Yes, perhaps that and a new Office suite for Mac! :eek: ;)

[Abulia]

I can certainly see people's concerns (and even Apple's) but one of the requirements for this contest was seamless (or easy) dual booting of both OSes. Even then, this is clearly a computerphile system tweak that not many people would feel comfortable doing.

However, in time, someone will realize that there's a buck to be made here. A third party company will automate the process via some sort of install/system modification disc and you supply your additional OSes to load (XP, Vista, whatever). At that point, an OS other than OS X on the Mac might become easier for "Joe User" to do. Even then, that's a level of technical expertise that only a minority would likely be willing to undertake.

Personally I'd use a separate drive for Windows or any other OS; partitioning creates a single point of failure and exposes my system to some of the issues already stated in this thread (viruses, etc).

I consider it a good thing. If you don't have a need or desire for dual booting, then you certainly don't have to take part. But for many of us, this is fantastic news and opens up a whole new realm for using our Macs.

[Lord Blackadder]

Running XP on a MacBook Pro will be great for me as a grad student.

I'm still skeptical, but hopeful as well. The problem is - how good (i.e. compatible) of a solution will this hack be? Will M$ release a patch that will break XP on the Mac in response to this (assuming it is legit).

I await further developments with impatience.

[Bishop604]

I call FAKE on this video WHY the mouse! if you look closely the mouse is a MAC icon mouse not a windows mouse, when window's is THINKING the mouse changes into a Hourglass but when a MAC is thinking it puts the Hourglass NEXT to the pointer or uses the Spinning wheel depending on the program, as in Microsoft® Virtual PC!:eek:

The mouse icon is not something hard wired into the computer it's a icon file that is used by the OS and draw's to the screen when needed, admittedly you could change the mouse look AFTER the OS has been installed with mods but it don't think it's possible to do it before installation you would have to recompile the install OS.

It is possible to change the windows startup screen to display whatever you want, say like a gray screen with the windows logo on it, company's have been doing this for years when they sell there custom made computers.

One day i would love to dual boot my iMac running windows, i love to game and sadly my mac lacks alot of good games, i imagine it would take something like Yellow Dogs linux dual-boot loader and some fancy coding to make windows run on my mac.

Yellow Dog (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/);)

Until i see an installer in my hands and a running computer i CALL FAKE!:)

[boncellis]

I can't see much good coming out of this.

When all kinds of people have Windows on their Macs and they start getting all the viruses that go along with it, think of the bad press Apple is going to get. They'll never mention that it's *Windows* getting the viruses, just that thousands of viruses are on peoples' Macs.

And since security (through obscurity or otherwise) is one of Apple's big plusses right now, when that's gone (rightly or wrongly), then what?

Not to mention that dual-booting is a pain in the a$$. I had to do it several times a day for two months, and it was horrific.

If we want to climb into the conspiracy theory tree, we never saw anyone operating anything. It could have been a video playing fullscreen.

It could be good, if it leads to people buying more Macintosh computers and if those people give OS X a try. I can't think of a more compact transition than a person:

sitting in front of their iMac;
getting frustrated with Windows;
contemplating throwing the iMac off the desk;
pausing to appreciate the superior design of the machine;
realizing it would be a pity to destroy it;
restarting the iMac;
choosing OS X over Windows;
taking the time to learn a better OS;
returning to Windows with less frequency each day.

Ostensibly, it could lead to more "switchers," though that might be a bit of a misnomer now.

[macinabox]

Fake. Either running VPC in full screen (hence the horridly slow boot up), or hacked cable in iMac G5/iMac Intel with PC running its LCD.

Why they would turn in fake instructions? Come up with a way to ruin at least 10 computers. 9 people are testing it, 3 on MacBook Pro, 3 on Mac Mini Intel, and 3 on iMac Intel. Include the main guy running the contest you have 10 Mac users you could give instructions to that they would follow line-by-line giving you the potential of destroy 10 computers. Evil practical joke, that is why.

[crees!]

I call FAKE on this video WHY the mouse! if you look closely the mouse is a MAC icon mouse not a windows mouse, when window's is THINKING the mouse changes into a Hourglass but when a MAC is thinking it puts the Hourglass NEXT to the pointer or uses the Spinning wheel depending on the program, as in Microsoft® Virtual PC!:eek:

The mouse icon is not something hard wired into the computer it's a icon file that is used by the OS and draw's to the screen when needed, admittedly you could change the mouse look AFTER the OS has been installed with mods but it don't think it's possible to do it before installation you would have to recompile the install OS.

It is possible to change the windows startup screen to display whatever you want, say like a gray screen with the windows logo on it, company's have been doing this for years when they sell there custom made computers.

One day i would love to dual boot my iMac running windows, i love to game and sadly my mac lacks alot of good games, i imagine it would take something like Yellow Dogs linux dual-boot loader and some fancy coding to make windows run on my mac.

Yellow Dog (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/);)

Until i see an installer in my hands and a running computer i CALL FAKE!:)

If it was FAKE then he has some serious balls to SUBMIT HIS SOLUTION FOR REVIEW. Not sure if you read that part.

[shelterpaw]

It's so wobble because it was done without a tripod and it wasn't a steady cam. I hate to say this but the windows logo on the white/gray background actually looked good. My question is can you do this from an external HD because I would only use Windows so often for specfic projects.
From the video it looks like he had two hard drives connected. One was a generic USB drive and the other was a maxtor drive. I don't know wich one he booted on. Hopefully it was the generic. If that's case, then you're money.

XP booting up on a mac will be a great option for gamers. VMWare for others.

[idea_hamster]

What format are the drives in these things? I'm confused because I thought XP doesn't recognize HFS. I guess I'm just slow...:confused:
You're right to note that Windows generally doesn't recognize the default OSX disk formatting. However, I can think of some quick work-arounds:

First, we don't know that this is booting from the internal drive. Mac supports firewire start-up disks, so it's not impossible that narf could be using an XP-formatted external.

Even if FW booting won't work with XP, narf could still have partitioned his HD and formatted one partition for Windows before the install.

Another possibility is that narf simply took the 3.5" SATA HD out of a PC after having installed XP on it and replaced the iMac's HD with that one.

In the end, the rub isn't going to be that XP does recognize a certain disk format. As long as Disk Utility can format a disk for use with XP (which it can, thank goodness!), the format will be less of an issue.

[boncellis]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Give when they need it, not for their entire life.

And for the sake of humanity get rid of the corrupt politicians. Wait, then there would be none! Catch 22! :D

Ironic that someone from Alpine would undertake Shard's rhetorical question regarding a permanent solution for poverty. Alpine is one of the more affluent communities in all of Utah.

[simie]

Here are two of the rules

Windows must be able to coexist with Mac OS X and each system may not interfere with the operation of the other (basically a traditional dual boot system where one OS is running at a time)

Your method, upon starting the computer, must offer the user to boot either OS X or Windows XP (hint: GRUB / LILO)

Well I did not see any option dual booting - He failed here

At the beginning of the video when windows asking where it should be installed. Why does the person press F3 as if to quit the installation has he never installed XP on a machine before.


Whats the memory stick installed for.

[tdar]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?

you can not build a Intel dual proc system unless you are using Xeon procs.....expensive....but yes XP will work there

[crees!]

From the video it looks like he had two hard drives connected. One was a generic USB drive and the other was a maxtor drive. I don't know wich one he booted on. Hopefully it was the generic. If that's case, then you're money.

XP booting up on a mac will be a great option for gamers. VMWare for others.

From a still image I saw an F: drive and 2 C: drives.

[iJon]

Cool video of an iMac G5 running VPC in full screen mode. No attempt at all in the video to prove it's an intel model.
You can tell it's an Intel iMac cause of it's thickness. That model is much thinner than they earlier G5 model.

jon

[~Shard~]

Ironic that someone from Alpine would undertake Shard's rhetorical question regarding a permanent solution for poverty. Alpine is one of the more affluent communities in all of Utah.

Didn't know that little fact - thanks. :o ;)

[shelterpaw]

(hence the horridly slow boot up), or hacked cable in iMac


Am I the only one that saw the install screen and then he popped into the intial setup screen. One section showed the install process; another the stup process; another with the user login, which looked like two users, and the last with a single login user and then he logged in. The final login, the boot-up seemed realtively fast. So he just showed several sections and it seems pretty smooth and XP seemed to run fast on the system.

[treblah]

I will be booting XP as soon as I possibly can. :p

[roach]

Anyone who ever (tried) to "photoshop" a video, knows it's a lot harder to edit an unstable picture, I think that's mainly the reason he doesn't use a tripod
Also, I would be pretty exited seeing Windows boot on an iMac, with shaky hands and such.

This is a small step for man, but a giant leap for Apple

Could be done using motion tracking...most Compositor progam has it. It's pretty easy with that footage because monitor edges are very clean. Not to say footage is fake.

[~Shard~]

Here are two of the rules

Windows must be able to coexist with Mac OS X and each system may not interfere with the operation of the other (basically a traditional dual boot system where one OS is running at a time)

Your method, upon starting the computer, must offer the user to boot either OS X or Windows XP (hint: GRUB / LILO)

Well I did not see any option dual booting - He failed here

At the beginning of the video when windows asking where it should be installed. Why does the person press F3 as if to quit the installation has he never installed XP on a machine before.

Interesting observations, thanks for those.

Alas, I fear there will be people who analyze every pixel of this video to death and argue back and forth until it is proven one way or the other. I'm interested to know the reuslts, but not that interested. ;) In the meantime, I'll prepare my "beating a dead horse" graphic for use once this thread grows beyond 10 pages... :cool:

[Shaker]

Cool video (minus the need for some motion sickness drugs). The question remains, does it still boot OS X (Tiger)? Why would I shell out for a great computer that runs yesterdays software?

If true, however, then Apple's stock in the computer world is about to go up.

[decksnap]

You're right to note that Windows generally doesn't recognize the default OSX disk formatting. However, I can think of some quick work-arounds:

First, we don't know that this is booting from the internal drive. Mac supports firewire start-up disks, so it's not impossible that narf could be using an XP-formatted external.

Even if FW booting won't work with XP, narf could still have partitioned his HD and formatted one partition for Windows before the install.

Another possibility is that narf simply took the 3.5" SATA HD out of a PC after having installed XP on it and replaced the iMac's HD with that one.

In the end, the rub isn't going to be that XP does recognize a certain disk format. As long as Disk Utility can format a disk for use with XP (which it can, thank goodness!), the format will be less of an issue.

OK- thanks- but can you format one partition as HFS and one as Fat32 or whatever? Basically asking if you can literally boot both OSs off the same hard drive, or if you need two.

[RustyM]

Although i wasn't expecting it, I thought the Windows logo on white was pretty darn cool. Even though I don't think Windows is pretty darn cool.

Totally!

[aussie_geek]

excuse my noobishness, but if you boot up windows on a mac will windows still run at the same speed as osx?

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
It looks legit. As for the shakey video I think it could have been pure uber geek excitement... I'm sure if I was doing this on video with intentions of throwing it up on the net I would be shaking as well. A tripod would be definitely in order. ;)

That's the question I want to know. Another one is how well it runs on the graphics side of things... :confused:

The only reason is for the gaming point of view. I don't like windows as an operating system environment but for gaming, you would be mad not to try this. :D

If anyone on these forums can do this I would be VERY interested how well it runs doom 3...

aussie_geek

[xStep]

Cool video of an iMac G5 running VPC in full screen mode.
Does VPC run in full screen mode during 'booting'? VPC does not run on an Intel iMac.

No attempt at all in the video to prove it's an intel model.
In the upper middle of the iMac is a small square where the iSight is, indicating an Intel Mac is being used. Of course the video is so jerky that it could be black tape for all we know. The back is shown about a third through the video, but barely and very briefly.

The video reminds me of the Area 51 alien autopsy, which was better quality.

So, I'm still not convinced.

EDIT: Thanks to starflyer and milo for pointing out the previous G5 iMac also had a built in camera.

[DamonNoisette]

...I see this being very attractive for Mac users who need those 1 or 2 elusive Windows-only apps for their profession. This would also come in handy for web designers who use Macs but need to test their sites' compatibility with IE. :cool:

Amen, brother. QuickBooks for Mac 2006 is absolutely worthless for our business because 99% of financial institutions don't -- and won't -- support it!

I guess it was hubris karma. Just as I was starting to brag about being a Mac-only household, my wife explained that QB 2006 couldn't do what she needed... :mad:

Oh well.

[robertmorris2]

If you want a windows machine, then buy one, don't push to put that crappy operating system on a Mac machine....where is the sense in all that ?http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[xStep]

excuse my noobishness, but if you boot up windows on a mac will windows still run at the same speed as osx?
One would expect that Windows would run at full speed since it is not running on an emulator, but native hardware. If special drivers are needed for such things as the video or ethernet, then there could be issues there.

[starflyer]

In the upper middle of the iMac is a small square where the iSight is, indicating an Intel Mac is being used. Of course the video is so jerky that it could be black tape for all we know. The back is shown about a third through the video, but barely and very briefly.

The last version of the iMac G5 had a built in iSight

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1881517,00.asp

sorry for the pcmag link..it was the first one google gave me :D

[jabooth]

I call FAKE on this video WHY the mouse! if you look closely the mouse is a MAC icon mouse not a windows mouse, when window's is THINKING the mouse changes into a Hourglass but when a MAC is thinking it puts the Hourglass NEXT to the pointer or uses the Spinning wheel depending on the program, as in Microsoft® Virtual PC!

Sorry mate, don't think you're right there.

Firstly, Windows uses both sand timers next to mouse and replacement of mouse. Dunno why it uses two different versions, but I'm sat on my PC typing this and when I open a program I get the timer next to the mouse.

Secondly, if you watch carefully when he changes view or whatever in the control panel, he does get a full size think timer for a moment.

I'm not saying this is definately legit (can't understand why you would get that windows logo on a white background, although it did look cool) but I'm willing to believe.

I say congrats to the guy!

[macb]

Step 1: Eliminate that goofy old oddball processor.

Step 2: Replace low percentage OS with the same thing the majority uses.

Step 3: Find the cheapest hardware to run this "new" combo on.

Step 4: Bye bye Apple.

[cr2sh]

If you want a windows machine, then buy one, don't push to put that crappy operating system on a Mac machine....where is the sense in all that ?

I hate to break the news to to you Sir, but that Mac machine you're so concerned about... is just a computer. It's not a temple, not a place of workship... it's there to do calculations, manage tasks, and aid me in my work.

Why does it matter if a computer has multiple OSs on it? :confused:

And the people who are concerned about viruses and all that stuff... run it seperate drives or heck.. just don't do anything dumb and have a firewall.

[RustyM]

If anyone on these forums can do this I would be VERY interested how well it runs doom 3...
aussie_geek

yea, that and counter-strike:source ! :rolleyes:

[dernhelm]

Until i see an installer in my hands and a running computer i CALL FAKE!:)

Well, I don't quite call fake. I think he got it booting, but the real question is what did he DO to get it there. I'm guessing that his techniques will not be for the squeamish - and may not be something that people who RELY on their machines would ever want to do.

I think I'll wait until it's tried and true before getting excited about it.

[milo]

You can tell it's an Intel iMac cause of it's thickness. That model is much thinner than they earlier G5 model.

That's a common misconception. The last G5 mac with built in camera is the exact same form factor as the intel. That goes for the ugly looking innards when you take it apart as well.

In the upper middle of the iMac is a small square where the iSight is, indicating an Intel Mac is being used.

I guess you forgot that the last G5 imacs had isight too? There's no way of knowing if an imac is G5 or intel from looking at the case.

Why would this guy make a fake video and then submit an entry to the contest? If it's fake, we'll know very quickly (today, if not in an hour or two) because nobody else will be able to do it. This isn't some anonymous hoax intended to start rumors.

[YoNeX]

[Conspiracy Theory]
Nars could have recorded windows starting up and everything and doing all the movements and save it to a video. Then he could have added the XP boot logo for good measures :) Then just add all those stuff together and you have this video. Then just play all that stuff full screen on the iMac. Also, if nars is the one holding the camera (i think) how can the mouse move at the same time. Dun Dun DUn
[/Conspiracy Theory]

Now that I got that out of my system, FINALLY :). Now all I have to do is wait for revision B PowerBooks (sic) and i'm set.

[Balli]

great now we have a crappy OS on amazing hardware. just what I want.

And don't forget, we can now play Half-Life 2! (and a zillion other games that were released on the PC and not the Mac).

[skagen5555]

If you want a windows machine, then buy one, don't push to put that crappy operating system on a Mac machine....where is the sense in all that ?http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

if you DONT want winxp, DONT INSTALL IT. I bought my mac and i can use it however i want. unfortunately, if you want games, you want windows. It's the reality of the situation. Why buy ANOTHER machine or even CARRY BOTH machines? THAT doesnt make sense at all if you have the option of combining them on one machine.

[DOUGHNUT]

Cool video (minus the need for some motion sickness drugs). The question remains, does it still boot OS X (Tiger)? Why would I shell out for a great computer that runs yesterdays software?

If true, however, then Apple's stock in the computer world is about to go up.

it has to. That's one of the stipulations of the $13000 contest: that XP and OS X must coexist on the Mac, and you must be able to choose which operating environment to boot into when computer starts up.

by the way, those Mac zealots crying about XP on Macs....get a life.

[jer446]

with this method, we will be able to dual boot right>>> That would be amazing if the speeds on windows were decent.. then no one would have the argument that macs cant game.. i would rarely use the pos os but it would come in handy..

[w00master]

I rated this thread as negative. For me Apple computers represent a product that is exclusive, when you factor the fact that you can add a Microsoft OS onto a Apple computer, it makes it less exclusive.

I think a big part of Apple's success as far as ease of use is concerned has to do with their tight integration within their own products. For example iTunes and the iPod. If they loose this and allow Microsoft's OS to boot up on Apple's computers who knows what will happen. We may find more virus's heading our way, or we might find all other windows glitches on our Apple computers. I can understand how people need applications that just run on Microsoft's OS, but if that's the case don't buy a Apple computer, or buy both. Just my two cents.

Ken

Ken-

I just don't understand this. Macs have *always* been able to boot Linux. So, why the problem with WinXP now? Is it *just* because you don't like MS? Some of us NEED to have more than 1 operating system run on our machines rather than carrying around multiple notebooks, etc.

I'm in no ways a fan of MS, but in my opinion this is GREAT news. It allows ME to stay w/ my various Apple machines more often and not have to switch from one to another.

Get over the exclusivity baloney. It was over a LONG TIME AGO.

w00master

[iSee]

I call FAKE on this video WHY the mouse! if you look closely the mouse is a MAC icon mouse not a windows mouse, when window's is THINKING the mouse changes into a Hourglass but when a MAC is thinking it puts the Hourglass NEXT to the pointer or uses the Spinning wheel depending on the program, as in Microsoft® Virtual PC!:eek:

The mouse icon is not something hard wired into the computer it's a icon file that is used by the OS and draw's to the screen when needed, admittedly you could change the mouse look AFTER the OS has been installed with mods but it don't think it's possible to do it before installation you would have to recompile the install OS.

It is possible to change the windows startup screen to display whatever you want, say like a gray screen with the windows logo on it, company's have been doing this for years when they sell there custom made computers.

One day i would love to dual boot my iMac running windows, i love to game and sadly my mac lacks alot of good games, i imagine it would take something like Yellow Dogs linux dual-boot loader and some fancy coding to make windows run on my mac.

Yellow Dog (http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/);)

Until i see an installer in my hands and a running computer i CALL FAKE!:)

You're wrong about mouse cursors under Windows. Windows uses both a full hourglass and hourglass next to regular cursor.
Not that this proves the video is real (although it is), but the mouse cursors that appear throughout are consistent with Windows.

[edit] as others before me pointed out...

[milo]

Macs have *always* been Linux.

Technically, OSX is a variation on unix, not Linux. And macs haven't always used unix, only since OSX about five years ago. Before that it was all proprietary Apple code.

I agree with the rest of your post.

[simie]

Why does he press F3 on his keyboard as if to exit windows installation. What as he got to prove by doing this.

I wonder if he purchased a Windows XP license especially to do this

[johnadurcan]

This reminds me of when people had difficulty transitioning to Windows from DOS apps. People would run old Dos apps in a Win 95 Shell but some apps wouldn't work properly so their was a compatibility mode so that windows would exit, you run your program and when you exit that prog. it drops back/reload into windows.

Now I can see where this will all go, we run our old windows business apps in a bios emulator program under Mac OS X (say to run MS Access database that some fool wrote 10 years ago). But some apps won't work very well under the emulator, so we have a compatibility mode which drops out of OS X and into Windows to run the program (say Half-Life2).

To end (on the basis of an earlier post):

Step 1: Eliminate that goofy old oddball processor called PowerPC.

Step 2: Replace crappy OS with the far superior one.

Step 3: Run legacy apps in legacy mode until replacements are developed.

Step 4: Bye bye Windows.

[~Shard~]

Amen, brother. QuickBooks for Mac 2006 is absolutely worthless for our business because 99% of financial institutions don't -- and won't -- support it!

I guess it was hubris karma. Just as I was starting to brag about being a Mac-only household, my wife explained that QB 2006 couldn't do what she needed... :mad:

Oh well.

Yeah, this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Although 90% of things can be done on Mac or Windows, there are always those types of apps (and important ones at that) which will require Windows. And for those types of situations, this dual bootting ability would definitely be an advantage. :cool:

[jabooth]

Yea, sorry iSee, just beat you to it mate ;)

[DOUGHNUT]

This reminds me of when people had difficulty transitioning to Windows from DOS apps. People would run old Dos apps in a Win 95 Shell but some apps wouldn't work properly so their was a compatibility mode so that windows would exit, you run your program and when you exit that prog. it drops back/reload into windows.

Now I can see where this will all go, we run our old windows business apps in a bios emulator program under Mac OS X (say to run MS Access database that some fool wrote 10 years ago). But some apps won't work very well under the emulator, so we have a compatibility mode which drops out of OS X and into Windows to run the program (say Half-Life2).

To end (on the basis of an earlier post):

Step 1: Eliminate that goofy old oddball processor called PowerPC.

Step 2: Replace crappy OS with the far superior one.

Step 3: Run legacy apps in legacy mode until replacements are developed.

Step 4: Bye bye Windows.

this is not a compatibility mode. This is a completely independent OS environment that gets loaded through a virtual BIOS. Many softwares will never be ported to OS X, so being able to run Windows gives people flexibility in terms of what software they want to run. For some people, OS X will never completely replace Windows.

[next]

I see many complain about the possibility of running windows on an imac.. They go like -oh my god, there goes apple's tradition in safe computing!

Well, many things to that. From having the possibility to doing it there's a world. If this user opens a gate to windows on a mac, that doesn't mean you and every apple user in this world have no choice but surrendering to his method. It's called free willing i think - to have the options and to choose your steps.

More, think of a shared computer... Am i the only one who has a family?

-- I'm studying industrial design. I received my mac this saturday. whenever i'll need use of autocad or 3ds max i'll have to go to my brother's pc, drag him out of his desk & sit for hours and hours working with it. what if i could have the same apps in MY machine, get the power of a dual proccessor.. anyone following my point or i'm misscarried?

Anyway, sorry if there's something wrong with my english - im spanish. And don't fear for security.. Anyone capable of getting windows on his mac, i think will be aware of what he'll get (side effects included).

[~Shard~]

If you want a windows machine, then buy one, don't push to put that crappy operating system on a Mac machine....where is the sense in all that ?http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

Many people do not want a Windows machine, they just need the Windows OS to run an applicaiton or two. Why should they shell out hundreds of dollars for a complete system, comprised of (in some cases) inferior hardware just so they can run 1 or 2 apps which they cannot use in OS X?

As an extreme example, should I buy a $400 Dell just so I can play on PokerStars.com? :p :cool:

[cr2sh]

should I buy a $400 Dell just so I can play on PokerStars.com? :p :cool:

In that one extreme situation Shard, I'd say "Yes, dood... go for it!"

:p

This whole thing has "excuse for me to buy a new intel powermac" written all over it. I'm thrilled.

:D

Lastly, it strikes me as funny.. I'm certain the actual Apple programmers have this figured out already and they're just sitting back in the labs, watching it all unfold and laughing at us mere humans.

[Bishop604]

I may have been wrong on my previous post, :o But i still stand by my claim that the video is a fake and is running in Virtual PC, i still think that the mouse looks wrong for the screen's they where on, it looks too small, and i find it very convenient that the camera guy could not use a tripod or get the focus right.:confused:

[adamfilip]

if i have $3000 bucks to spend
would i rather have two $1500 desktops one Mac one PC
or one $3000 desktop thats much faster that can dual boot

just having the option of dual booting for some people means that the extra price for a Mac has just disappeared. because its now cheaper then having two seperate machines

[~Shard~]

In that one extreme situation Shard, I'd say "Yes, dood... go for it!"

But that would cut into my profits! :eek: :D

This whole thing has "excuse for me to buy a new intel powermac" written all over it. I'm thrilled.

Yeah, that's what scares me - now I'm going to be tempted to buy a new Mac sooner than I was initially planning on... ;) :cool:

[johnadurcan]

this is not a compatibility mode. This is a completely independent OS environment that gets loaded through a virtual BIOS. Many softwares will never be ported to OS X, so being able to run Windows gives people flexibility in terms of what software they want to run. For some people, OS X will never completely replace Windows.

LOL! If you read the post, you would see that I am talking about iEmulator in mac os x and dropping into the real mode (virtual BIOS as you call it) that is infact a BCM (Bios Compatibility Module) for the EFI Boot Loader, which is exactly what people used to do when Win95 first came about. Anyone else remember? If you do, you'll also remember that Lotus lost a lot of market share by not transitioning early and MS got a head start - that's a whole other story.

I have to support windows users so I need to run windows from time to time and I won't be switching to an intel mac until a descent PC emulator is available for Mac OS X (iEmulator isn't it yet) but I'd also like to dump into windows real mode to run a game or to which is something I can't do at the moment on my mac.

[admford]

I personally take with a grain of salt. I noticed a number of things that, while do show that XP is bootable, there remains the fact, that is OS X bootable still?

First of all, the author of the video didn't show a cold boot from a shut down computer (though he did boot from a "suspended" system, if anyone noticed the white led in the front).

It's been said that Mac OS X and XP have a hard time living together on a single hard drive (proven on the Developer's system) and need a special bootloader to choose between which OS to start (not through the standard XP bootloader or OS X).

This could be a mod of the EFI firmware, using an open source bios (bochs comes to mind) and some how making it visible for Windows XP. That's all OK and such, but what does it do to Mac OS X? Accessing EFI on a iMac usually incurs alot of trouble and can make it hard to get OS X to boot again, but having to go into EFI each time the computer boots to switch OS is a hassle, that or pulling out an install DVD of OS X to switch boot drive...

Though this is speculation, I was thinking on ways that Apple would possibly stop the piratization of OS X on generic PC's. Well, with MS's news of not supporting EFI in Vista, thus up until they do, that means no motherboards for the general public with EFI on them. That would be the major and only difference that Apple could play on. The original Pentium 4 developer's systems are going to be taken back soon, considering the proliferation of Intel Macs currently. That would eliminate the only Macs that use BIOS. So, Apple just has to eliminate any support of bios from their kernel (I know it's open source, but they do decide what goes in the public versions of OS X).

That would automatically make most PC's unable to run OS X natively and also, if this hack uses a bios immage to help boot Microsoft Windows AND OS X, completely bypassing EFI for both operating systems. It could mean that this solution could last for only a couple months at most.

[Lord Blackadder]

Lastly, it strikes me as funny.. I'm certain the actual Apple programmers have this figured out already and they're just sitting back in the labs, watching it all unfold and laughing at us mere humans.

Not only that, they're probably already dual booting, the b*stards.:mad: :rolleyes: ;)

If this pans out we can finally put a stop to the countless irritating "will Counterstrike ever run on the Mac?" threads.

[PtMD]

Technically, OSX is a variation on unix, not Linux. And macs haven't always used unix, only since OSX about five years ago. Before that it was all proprietary Apple code.

I agree with the rest of your post.


he actually said "Macs have *always* been able to boot Linux." Notice the "boot." I dont believe he was in any way saying OSX ran ontop of Linux.

[MacsRgr8]

Not quite convinced, sorry to say.

If I were the one to video the first Mac to boot Windows XP natively, I'll pretty much make sure the people watching it are absolutely convinced! So, if you zoom in on the processor info, make sure it is readable.... can't be that much of a problem....
These guys are pretty much doing their best not to be very assuring. :rolleyes:

BTW... about Windows gaming on an Intel Mac.
OK, assuming XP does run, is the grfx card 100% supported? No Mac-ROM code on it? What about sound? It wouldn't surprize me that DirectX isn't supported.
Don't get too over excited that an iMac Intel could run Half Life 2.

EDIT: good to see the ol' Blackie-'tar back, Lord Blackadder

[age234]

Step 1: Eliminate that goofy old oddball processor.

Step 2: Replace low percentage OS with the same thing the majority uses.

Step 3: Find the cheapest hardware to run this "new" combo on.

Step 4: Bye bye Apple.

Unfortunately, you're right. We're hovering around #2 right now.

I never thought I'd see Mac fans celebrating with bated breath something that could be the beginning of the end for Apple. As plainly put by macb, how can this be a good thing long-term? What happens when everyone starts doing this, and the big software guys decide to go Windows-only? After all, Macs can run Windows apps now.

This Intel thing is a turning point for Apple. Five years from now, either Apple will be more popular than ever before, or more irrelevant than ever before.

[crees!]

First of all, the author of the video didn't show a cold boot from a shut down computer (though he did boot from a "suspended" system, if anyone noticed the white led in the front).

Actually this has been brought up somewhere else and people have said when they turn on their iMacs the light DOES show and then turns of when the gray boot screen appears.

[Lord Blackadder]

There are definitely a lot of potential problems with this - and we still have yet to see how Microsoft will respond. If history is any guide they will break the hack through patches and ensure that Vista is full of "features" that will make such a hack impossible with that OS.

The video does have the air of a prank about it. I initially dismissed this all as a fake, and though I'm a little less sure now I think it's time that they either 'fess up or provide the real proof.

[Hyde]

i agree that this is an unfortunate and expected result of apple having moved to the intel processor. the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native. IMHO this is a SAD day for mac owners and people who believe in and have stood by this company.

to the clowns responsible for this hack - all you've done is succeeded in running a craptacular, problem-laden OS on a modified intel MB. big deal. this is comparable to giving a genius Down's. you aren't making anything better - you are making things worse. you are going to be responsible (in whole or in part - a BIG part) for dragging this company and what they are trying to do down the the winblows level. sigh...

[crees!]

The video does have the air of a prank about it. I initially dismissed this all as a fake, and though I'm a little less sure now I think it's time that they either 'fess up or provide the real proof.
It is being fessed up. The contest initiator and 9 other people (3 Macbook Pros, 3 iMacs, 3 Minis) are testing at the moment. We'll know later tonight/tomorrow how it went for them. Who knows if this will be easy to do / restore or now.

[crees!]

i agree that this is an unfortunate and expected result of apple having moved to the intel processor. the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native. IMHO this is a SAD day for mac owners and people who believe in and have stood by this company
Dude.. for the gamers out there who wants to play a game running off an emulator? I'd suspect the answer would be no one unless they're just a bit deedeedee.

[iSee]

I may have been wrong on my previous post, :o But i still stand by my claim that the video is a fake and is running in Virtual PC, i still think that the mouse looks wrong for the screen's they where on, it looks too small, and i find it very convenient that the camera guy could not use a tripod or get the focus right.:confused:

I don't know what gives with the camera work. Maybe those guys can buy themselves a tripod or at least take a class or something :D with the ~13K they win.

What they've done has been submitted to the contest site for independent review, so we'll know soon enough if this is real or not.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm hoping you were entirely wrong on your previous post. I sure hope you like crow, 'cause you're about to eat a health serving...;) (Well one of us is, anyway...)

[Sabenth]

well from my prospective whether images are faked or video is to shakey just look at the fuss this thing is causing i mean for years we have been able to boot os 1 boot up os 2 boot up os 3 On pcs why shouldnt we be able to boot up os 4 on a mac the option should be there.... I know a bit about bios been using it for years efi or what ever its called iam not famliar with but what i see here is a sign of the future told bill will be the only one rubbing his hands here YAHOOO all those mac fans that want to run windows only apps need my OS and low and beyhold they can now run my os on a mac w00t ...

Well thats my 2 pence worth

[jer2eydevil88]

CounterStrike Source on a Macbook Pro 2.0ghz 256mb GPU.... == One Word!


(DROOOOOOOOLLLLLL) (http://www.projectosx86.org/winonmac.mov)

[crees!]

CounterStrike Source on a Macbook Pro 2.0ghz 256mb GPU.... == One Word!

(DROOOOOOOOLLLLLL)

Agreed! I haven't played it in the past 2 years since switching to Mac.

[PtMD]

There are definitely a lot of potential problems with this - and we still have yet to see how Microsoft will respond. If history is any guide they will break the hack through patches and ensure that Vista is full of "features" that will make such a hack impossible with that OS.

The video does have the air of a prank about it. I initially dismissed this all as a fake, and though I'm a little less sure now I think it's time that they either 'fess up or provide the real proof.

This may be very hard for them to stop long term. I can't speak to this solution, but the BAMBIOS CSM solution isnt a hack at all. Its just completing the compatibility layer Apple didnt include. To the OS, it appears as a *Legacy* BIOS. this would be very difficult for MS to feature proof without cutting off support for all of the Xen installs out there and possibly others.

[cr2sh]

i agree that this is an unfortunate and expected result of apple having moved to the intel processor. the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native. IMHO this is a SAD day for mac owners and people who believe in and have stood by this company.

to the clowns responsible for this hack - all you've done is succeeded in running a craptacular, problem-laden OS on a modified intel MB. big deal. this is comparable to giving a genius Down's. you aren't making anything better - you are making things worse. you are going to be responsible (in whole or in part - a BIG part) for dragging this company and what they are trying to do down the the winblows level. sigh...

First your comments... its amazing to me that you refer to "dragging down to winblows level" but your advice to Mac owners is "Just use VPC." You're recommending a Microsoft product so that we don't have to use a Microsft product. :confused:

Lastly, the part where you insult the clowns that have accomplished this... you seem to not have been following this entire saga. They've accomplished something that last week Experts were claiming would be impossible because of EFI. So at the very least, you have to give them credit for providing something that a lot of folks desire.

Or is there more to this religious debate?

Lastly I'll point it out one last time... that Mac you're so concerned about: IS A COMPUTER. I purchased to aid me in work and accomplish tasks... why does it matter if it runs two OS's?

[DOUGHNUT]

Dude.. for the gamers out there who wants to play a game running off an emulator? I'd suspect the answer would be no one unless they're just a bit deedeedee.

agreed, try playing Battlefield 2 or something through an emulator....AINT GONNA HAPPEN!

[powerbook911]

I hope this ends up working. I really want to sell my PC, to give me some cash.

[jabooth]

If this aint happining...I will get a MacBook.
If this is happening... I'll sell my PC and go for the MacBook Pro :D :D

[iSee]

i agree that this is an unfortunate and expected result of apple having moved to the intel processor. the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native. IMHO this is a SAD day for mac owners and people who believe in and have stood by this company.

to the clowns responsible for this hack - all you've done is succeeded in running a craptacular, problem-laden OS on a modified intel MB. big deal. this is comparable to giving a genius Down's. you aren't making anything better - you are making things worse. you are going to be responsible (in whole or in part - a BIG part) for dragging this company and what they are trying to do down the the winblows level. sigh...

VPC would suit my needs, if it worked on Intel Macs!
Where is it? When is it scheduled to be released? A: ?, when MS *amn well feels like it.

This is a breakthrough because it is available now (well, ok, really, really soon, if it's not a fake which I'm sure it isn't.:) :) :) )

Anyway, the Mac isn't being dragged down. Really, Windows users are being dragged up. Do you really think anyone that has the chance to choose either Mac OS X or Windows, won't choose OS X every chance they get?

This is a good thing. It's going to put Apple boxes in a lot more people's hands. (Maybe not this hack, but eventually) That's going to encourage developer, not discourage them.

[milo]

he actually said "Macs have *always* been able to boot Linux." Notice the "boot." I dont believe he was in any way saying OSX ran ontop of Linux.

Looks like he went back and edited his post, as you can see from my quote. My response was to his original wording: "Macs have *always* been Linux." His edited version is correct.

If I were the one to video the first Mac to boot Windows XP natively, I'll pretty much make sure the people watching it are absolutely convinced!

Considering he's likely on track to win $13000, he probably doesn't care too much about video quality. For those who still think this is a fake, the guy giving out the prize in this contest has posted that he's been in contact with this guy's team for awhile and based on the progress he's seen, he thinks it's legit. Better get out that crow and silverware.

the vast majority of you applauding this 'breakthrough' haven't provided a reason as to why VPC can't suit your needs other than repeatedly saying that it's not native.

VPC is way too slow. Running at native speeds is a huge improvement. The next version of VPC may run at full speed, but we won't know that until it ships. Quit being such babies about this, it's not going to kill the mac, if anything it may help mac sales since now the mac is the only box on which you can run both OSX and XP legally.

App makers will make a version for any OS as long as it sells. And given a choice, mac users will always buy the mac version over the PC version, not to mention the many users who will never do this and will continue to demand a mac version.

[iSee]

If this aint happining...I will get a MacBook.
If this is happening... I'll sell my PC and go for the MacBook Pro :D :D

Basically, this is "why" for all those that ask. I have to be able to run Windows. This will save me the price of a whole second laptop.

I might even splurge on the 2.0 --> 2.16 GHz upgrade... well, OK, I won't save *that* much money :rolleyes:

[jer2eydevil88]

direct link of the video for those who want a copy of this moment on their hard drives

http://www.projectosx86.org/winonmac.mov

[Lord Blackadder]

This may be very hard for them to stop long term. I can't speak to this solution, but the BAMBIOS CSM solution isnt a hack at all. Its just completing the compatibility layer Apple didnt include. To the OS, it appears as a *Legacy* BIOS. this would be very difficult for MS to feature proof without cutting off support for all of the Xen installs out there and possibly others.

This is true. I am excited about the BAMBIOS project, even though it may yet encounter insurmountable problems. But it's a proven idea, and even if this latest hack turns out to be fake there is still a good chance that true native Win-on-Mac will happen with good compatibility.

[nostaws]

I am giving $100 of my own money and offering anyone else who would like the instructions on how to Dual boot these two operating systems the ability to give some of their money into the pot as a prize for the person / group that can make dual-booting Mac OS X and Windows XP happen on an Intel Mac.

I don't think that "booting in windows" is the same as dual booting. How do I indicate which OS I want to boot? Booting into windows may not necesarily win the prize.

[ThomasM]

i wonder how much time it will take before people realise that narf is in fact steve jobs.

[SPUY767]

I think that he should invest in a tripod - He will get one cheap off Ebay

What was that boot loader with the white screen with the windows logo on it- it seemed to take a while before XP booted -could this be VM Ware under linux or a fake full screen movie being played on a Mac hence the shaky camera movements to hide things.

I can't why this persons shooting is so wobbly.


You got cataracts chief? That was a windows install. First it formatted the main drive, then it began to copy install files. It was a boot form and install disk is why it took so long. When windows installs its viral plague on your machine, you boot from a CD, the CD copies a very basic operable system which has nothing but the ability to install windows, copies the install cabs and files, then reboots into the aforementioned system to complete the install.

[Abulia]

Sigh. I guess skepticism is healthy but you guys are just cracking me up.

I call FAKE on this video WHY the mouse! if you look closely the mouse is a MAC icon mouse not a windows mouse, when window's is THINKING the mouse changes into a Hourglass but when a MAC is thinking it puts the Hourglass NEXT to the pointer or uses the Spinning wheel depending on the program, as in Microsoft® Virtual PC!:eek:You're wrong. I re-watched the video looking specifically at the mouse. There is no unusual mouse "thinking" activity. In fact, there's no spinning wheel (ala Mac) as you claim.

As for the person questioning how you can film and type at the same time…because there's two of them? Two people are involved, narf2006 and blanka, both working together on this. This is pretty clear in the video when the camera pans and someone reaches for the keyboard other than the person holding the camera.Interesting. The "video is fairly convincing", I'd agree. Except for that odd initial boot screen, white with the Windows XP logo? I've NEVER seen that anywhere! XP boots on a PC with an initial black screen with the words Windows XP with the logo, and in 16 color VGA mode. Perhaps this is from the EFI-> BIOS hack the used?

The Windows logo on the white background is a custom loading screen. This is easily done and has been for years; you can have Windows boot up to whatever picture you'd like it to display. Google it. Personally, I thought it was a nice touch.Why does he press F3 on his keyboard as if to exit windows installation. What as he got to prove by doing this.I guess you haven't done many XP installs before. The "exit Setup" message you're talking about is the default message when you try to install XP to an unrecognizable drive, in this case the C: partition2 whose file format is "unknown"; Windows is going to give you grief if you try to install to this partition. After he exits the attempted install he formats the drive with NTFS with a quick format, and afterwards Windows then copies the files over. You see this in the video. Nothing mysterious here.

Why is everyone so quick to piss on the parade?

[Lord Blackadder]

Why is everyone so quick to piss on the parade?

1. Mac Zeal.

2. Initially this hack looked like an other "Leaked 6G iPod OMFG!!!!11ONE" prank, though it is looking increasingly like he's not pulling our leg.

If it is legit we will know soon...

[crees!]

i wonder how much time it will take before people realise that narf is in fact steve jobs.
Yea, he needs to win that pot of money. He only got paid $1 last year :D

[Peace]

i wonder how much time it will take before people realise that narf is in fact steve jobs.

That is THE post of the day for this thread :)

[DOUGHNUT]

Those Mac zealots....they really need to be more open minded. As Apple's slogan in the 90's say... Think Different

[SPUY767]

I have heard it all. Ok, installing windows on a mac is not dumb. It's is a necessity in some cases. People see to worry about viruses on the Windows machine breaking the mac, and to that I say, "did you eat paint chips?" With the possible exception of the person who installs windows on a second partition with a Mac OS X install, which 95% of saavy users would not do, there is no danger at all of the PC messing up the mac. In 20 Years of side-by-side computing, the PC has nevver once been compatible out of the box with an HFS partition. You cannot destroy what you cannot see. It wouldn't matter if you got the worst strain of every PC virus ever known and it ate your windows install. If the Mac Install was on a different drive, and most likely even a different partition, it would boot up just like it always had. The only thing I wonder about, is how would you select the boot drive. but I'm betting that we can rely on EFI for that. Prolly the same option-power key combo we've always used. Hell it might even recognize it as a windows partition and sdisplay that garbage little logo on the drive select screen. Only thing I worry about is the autocratic boot loader that installs with windows and hijacks the whole computer. but with EFI, I imagine that's out of the picture.

[age234]

Lastly I'll point it out one last time... that Mac you're so concerned about: IS A COMPUTER. I purchased to aid me in work and accomplish tasks... why does it matter if it runs two OS's?
Right, but you're not looking long-term. If this kind of thing goes mainstream, with time there will be no reason for companies to make Mac apps. Slowly, people will trickle back into using Windows as there are fewer and fewer Mac apps. Eventually, Macs will be down to a base of pro musicians, video editors, and compositors using Apple's pro software. Back to the "Macs are for creative pros" myth, back to the mid-90s when Apple was langushing in despair.

Or they'll be more popular than ever. Either way, the next few years will be crucial for Apple's future.

[age234]

People see to worry about viruses on the Windows machine breaking the mac, and to that I say, "did you eat paint chips?" With the possible exception of the person who installs windows on a second partition with a Mac OS X install, which 95% of saavy users would not do, there is no danger at all of the PC messing up the mac.
Right, but most Windows users are Mac-haters who have never used Macs. They hear "thousands of viruses attacking Macs", and they don't know or care that it's actually *Windows* that is being attacked. And Apple's "virus-free" image is severely tainted. Look at the brouhaha over two alpha-quality viruses that users had to launch themselves!

[milo]

If this kind of thing goes mainstream, with time there will be no reason for companies to make Mac apps.

You're being a pessimist. Who's to say that the windows version won't die out instead?

Think about it. You have a box that runs both systems. Why in your right mind would you buy the XP version instead of the mac version? The only thing I see this as a potential threat to is games.

[(L)]

great now we have a crappy OS on amazing hardware. just what I want.

Apple's hardware is both amazing and not so amazing at the same time, depending on who you talk to. XP is crappy for many people, but they still want it badly enough to try this sort of thing. What can it hurt if they do it of their own will?

[next]

Right, but you're not looking long-term. If this kind of thing goes mainstream, with time there will be no reason for companies to make Mac apps. Slowly, people will trickle back into using Windows as there are fewer and fewer Mac apps. Eventually, Macs will be down to a base of pro musicians, video editors, and compositors using Apple's pro software. Back to the "Macs are for creative pros" myth, back to the mid-90s when Apple was langushing in despair.

Or they'll be more popular than ever. Either way, the next few years will be crucial for Apple's future.


awe, please... that would just happen IF the announcement was ever OFFICIAL... like billy boy taking the stage and offering us efi support or something... THEN windows would officially run on a mac and all kinds of theories would pop up from nowhere and everywhere at the time...


It is ridiculous to think that software companies rely their desicions based on user hacks... Then there would be no microsoft to blame! :rolleyes:

[SPUY767]

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime. Give when they need it, not for their entire life.

And for the sake of humanity get rid of the corrupt politicians. Wait, then there would be none! Catch 22! :D


Build a man a fire, and He'll be warm for a day. . .

Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. . .

[bigandy]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?


nope. xp pro is dual proc/core aware, home only toys with one cpu.

you have to jump to the server versions to take advantage of more than two cores.


interesting video, very interesting windows logo on grey background, bit suspicious, but whatever. it could be useful as i have some windows programmes i cannot do without, which makes it hard, because i only have a powerbook and REFUSE, POINT BLANK, to purchase a PC.

;)

[apollo8fan]

I don't think I wanna spend $310+ for Windows XP Pro just to run it on an x86-based Mac. Since the Mac didn't come with Windows XP Pro, one must purchase the full retail version to be legal with the O/S and its EULA.

[Sunrunner]

Sigh. I guess skepticism is healthy but you guys are just cracking me up.

Why is everyone so quick to piss on the parade?


Too many false Apple-related rumors I think. :rolleyes:

[Jorey3969]

Why cant they just make a better movie, and take some good pictures, and just provide better evidence? I am for Xp on the mac = more mac, more software, more hardware.

[Abulia]

I don't think I wanna spend $310+ for Windows XP Pro just to run it on an x86-based Mac. Since the Mac didn't come with Windows XP Pro, one must purchase the full retail version to be legal with the O/S and its EULA.Windows XP Home is $99 and Pro is $199. That's without bothering to look for any deals. (Source: CompUSA (http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=0&Ntt=windows%20xp&Ntk=All&Nty=1&D=windows%20xp&Dx=mode%20matchall))

[Edit] Erk. Those are upgrade prices! Yes, $300 for retail Pro.

[apollo8fan]

Windows XP Home is $99 and Pro is $199. That's without bothering to look for any deals. (Source: CompUSA (http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=0&Ntt=windows%20xp&Ntk=All&Nty=1&D=windows%20xp&Dx=mode%20matchall))
Uh, those are UPGRADES for previous versions of Windows. Full retail version is $300+.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=676321

[DOUGHNUT]

I don't think I wanna spend $310+ for Windows XP Pro just to run it on an x86-based Mac. Since the Mac didn't come with Windows XP Pro, one must purchase the full retail version to be legal with the O/S and its EULA.

if you don't want to spend the money, then dont. Nobody told you you have to install it.

[Abulia]

Uh, those are UPGRADES for previous versions of Windows. Full retail version is $300+.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=676321Then try these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B0007L7E1U/all/ref=dp_pb_a/102-4881826-0251334?s=software) for $160.

[aussie_geek]

yea, that and counter-strike:source ! :rolleyes:


yep - that too. FPS Doug had better look out!! :p


aussie_geek

[suntzu]

I don't think I wanna spend $310+ for Windows XP Pro just to run it on an x86-based Mac. Since the Mac didn't come with Windows XP Pro, one must purchase the full retail version to be legal with the O/S and its EULA.

Not really. There are ways around this that's perfectly legal. You could buy an copy of Windows 98 off of eBay (that has an unused key) and then buy the upgrade.

Then you basically dump the contents of the WinXP CD to a friend's PC and slipstream the updates (so you won't have to download then all when you run WinXP). Then just burn it back to CD (with a bootable tag) and change the disc name. A lot of system adminstrators use this method and it recommended by Microsoft.

[apollo8fan]

Then try these (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/offering/list/-/B0007L7E1U/all/ref=dp_pb_a/102-4881826-0251334?s=software) for $160.

There are always ways of acquiring Windows XP Pro through the grey market. The point I'm bringing up is Apple is not restricting the installation of Windows on its machines, so doing this isn't violating Apple's EULA. To legitimately install Windows XP, one must acquire a full, valid, non-transferred, non-OEM, license. The grey market is replete with these "low-cost" versions of Windows XP, but the licensing isn't really on the up-and-up. Being a licensed OEM System Builder who has passed the Microsoft System Builder Pre-Installation exam, I know the legitimate channels for acquiring a legitimate license of Windows XP. The Amazon link you provided is NOT Amazon themselves, but other individuals selling their supposed "full" versions of Windows XP. These are likely OEM versions with a slight markup, sold without the accompanying hardware that is required for OEM's to sell the OEM license.

Heck, I could get Windows XP running on an x86-based Mac if I wanted to without paying for Windows XP. I'm just pointing out what must be done to be on the up-and-up.

[motulist]

"ARG!!! MAKE IT STOP! IT BURNS! IT BURNS!!!!!"

Seeing windows on an iMac just looks so wrong!

[yankeefan24]

This my friends, is what will get me a MBP. I am in a bad situation because i am starting to need windows apps for more and more things, so am not going to get a new intel mac because a) no VPC, and b) if i need higher powered windows apps, i might just get a high powered windows laptop:( . This is great news for me, as i can get an intel mac, and keep apple's design, and keep my dignity as a mac user.:D

btw, my friends, this is my 500th post:D

[apollo8fan]

Not really. There are ways around this that's perfectly legal. You could buy an copy of Windows 98 off of eBay (that has an unused key) and then buy the upgrade.

Then you basically dump the contents of the WinXP CD to a friend's PC and slipstream the updates (so you won't have to download then all when you run WinXP). Then just burn it back to CD (with a bootable tag) and change the disc name. A lot of system adminstrators use this method and it recommended by Microsoft.

There-in lies how to acquire a legitimate, full license for XP Pro. XP Pro cannot be upgraded from Windows 98. What's the history of the Windows98 being purchased? Is it a full, unused version? Like I said in my previous post, I could get Windows XP running without paying for Windows XP, just how to be legit when doing it is what I'm bringing up for discussion here.

[simie]

You got cataracts chief? That was a windows install. First it formatted the main drive, then it began to copy install files. It was a boot form and install disk is why it took so long. When windows installs its viral plague on your machine, you boot from a CD, the CD copies a very basic operable system which has nothing but the ability to install windows, copies the install cabs and files, then reboots into the aforementioned system to complete the install.

I ain't got cataracts, its just a poor video recording.

[suntzu]

Well, I guess the question that needs to be asked is this. If it's really a fake, why bother submitting it to the contest? Wouldn't that just prove automatically it was a fake?

It doesn't make sense to me to upload fake pictures, upload a fake movie, and then enter yourself into the contest. If he wanted to hurt the guy's computer it seems like a twisted malicious thing to do.

I think it's legit but I think he still hasn't figured out how to dual-boot yet. I think all he's done is install Windows XP on the MacIntel. He needs that other portion (dual-boot) to be useful.

[matd]

Was someone able to read (decrypt) the configuration on the Control Panel ??? Curiously these most interesting things were quickly skipped.

[Abulia]

Heck, I could get Windows XP running on an x86-based Mac if I wanted to without paying for Windows XP. I'm just pointing out what must be done to be on the up-and-up.Well, so can I and I suspect so can the majority of people who are interested in a dual-booting setup.

[Abulia]

I think it's legit but I think he still hasn't figured out how to dual-boot yet. I think all he's done is install Windows XP on the MacIntel. He needs that other portion (dual-boot) to be useful.Since dual-booting is a requirement of the contest, he's pretty much wasting his time (and won't get the prize) if this hasn't been figured out.

My rather limited understanding of the contest is that a custom bootloader to pick partitions/OSes wasn't the problem; it's emulating the BIOS layer to get WinXP to run on an EFI machine. Hence I believe the video only showed the "hard" part of the contest.

I may be totally wrong, however.

[tdar]

"ARG!!! MAKE IT STOP! IT BURNS! IT BURNS!!!!!"

Seeing windows on an iMac just looks so wrong!

get used to it

[081440]

How soon will we find out if this is legit? I probably wouldn't install Windows on my mac for some time, but it would be nice to know if you can.

[Abulia]

As a reminder, the rules:

Instructions must boot Windows XP (at least), not Vista or any other version of Windows. Windows must be able to coexist with Mac OS X and each system may not interfere with the operation of the other (basically a traditional dual boot system where one OS is running at a time) Your method, upon starting the computer, must offer the user to boot either OS X or Windows XP (hint: GRUB / LILO) The first person to post complete instructions, including pictures of the boot process to The Forum will be the winner. Instructions will be peer reviewed once they are received and once the solution is guaranteed working, the prize money will be transferred via paypal You give this website the rights to post your solution exclusively If it is determined impossible to boot Windows on the Mac by March 30, 2006 (7 day delay), all donations will be donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. If you donated prior to 2006/01/23 2:10pm CST, and you do not wish to donate to charity, I will return your money minus the paypal fee You cannot use virtualization software such as Xen or VMWare

[DOUGHNUT]

How soon will we find out if this is legit? I probably wouldn't install Windows on my mac for some time, but it would be nice to know if you can.

sometime this weekend. the solution has been submitted, and 9 people have been assigned to test the solution on 3 iMacs, 3 MBPs and 3 Mac mini's

[mercury26]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?

Windows XP Pro can utilize 4 CPUs if in the following configuration, 2 x Dualcore CPUs (same config as the Quad G5 PowerMac).

Cheers,

:: Chuck

[Counter]

Wonder what will happen when Apple releases the Quad Intel machine... is XP quad cpu aware?

I bet Bill isn't quad cpu aware, let alone his steaming pile of brain-**** XP :D

Like others on this one....great problem solving (if isn't faking it using a windows box and just the iMac for the screen.....what's stopping this tech heads?) but personally I have absolutely no use for a **** OS on a Mac. I'd rather use OS9 than XP.

[DarkAdept]

I don't think that "booting in windows" is the same as dual booting. How do I indicate which OS I want to boot? Booting into windows may not necesarily win the prize.

I wouldn't worry about that being a sticking point. Holding down the option key on boot gives you a choice of partitions to boot from - and there's no inherent restriction that these must be OS X partitions, just "blessed" EFI boot partitions.

You can see this in action by burning a rEFIt CD image, inserting the CD, and then restarting with option held down. You can easily choose your internal OS X boot partition or the CD's EFI shell to boot from ... better yet, it's doing things "the Mac way" and makes selecting the OS at boot an option instead of a menu present on every boot.

This doesn't require multiple physical drives, either, it's also possible for multiple blessed partitions to share one physical drive. There's a hidden EFI partition on all Intel-based Macs with more than enough room to store the necessary drivers et al to mount a FAT32 partition and continue booting from there.

I'm actually pretty pleased with the way Apple has played this. Letting a third-party provide the means to install Windows takes Apple support out of the loop. I'd hate for them to waste their time doing BIOS testing and updates - let another vendor focus on that niche market.

[Savage Henry]

I'd rather use OS9 than XP.Here endeth the thread. Amen.

[deadturtle]

I wonder if that windows 'flag' screen is like the apple screen. Something that covers up what ever its doing in the background. Maybe an openfirmware hack to push boot params from EFI to legacy? Seems rather odd not to just let it go to the normal black screen with grey blocks across the bottom. Acctually my first thought was that he was running a version of Vista. The shakiness might come from him holding the camera while taking the video? I remain skeptical, only because I want to convince my boss to buy me a 'tel Mini to prove we can boot windows on it so we can buy a lab of sub $600 dollar computers than can be easily portable. But with Novell it just costs to much to get OSX lic. for the client, hence WinMac. (more I just want a 'tel Mini to play with :) )

[mercury26]

I bet Bill isn't quad cpu aware, let alone his steaming pile of brain-**** XP :D


Um, XP Pro is Quad aware. I should know I have it running as such at home.

Cheers,

:: Chuck

[tdar]

Was someone able to read (decrypt) the configuration on the Control Panel ??? Curiously these most interesting things were quickly skipped.


I looked at the video full screen and frame by frame and picked out some of the Hardware configs.

First they have created a 200MB FAT32 disk that I would guess they use to boot up with- There are 2 other partitions on the HD, 1 for OSX and one for Windows.
The other thing I noticed is that like most all newer computers, XP does not have the drivers for the built in hardware. From what I could see on the video, Drivers will need to be collected for the built in isight (USB), the Network card, The ATI video, and most likely the sound card. Only the webcam driver will be hard to come by- mostly because we have no idea who makes it. From what I saw in the video , I’d say that this approach will result in a fully functional XP (or Vista) system, that will in fact be a very good windows computer.

[milo]

Why cant they just make a better movie, and take some good pictures, and just provide better evidence?

They're providing the best evidence of all, they've passed along their solution so that others can test it and verify that it works. Who cares about how good the movie or pictures are, they're taking them with what they have, which is a phone camera.

People are such whiners. These guys figure out this big technical feat, and you complain the avi is out of focus?

[Whistleway]

I looked at the video full screen and frame by frame and picked out some of the Hardware configs.

First they have created a 200MB FAT32 disk that I would guess they use to boot up with- There are 2 other partitions on the HD, 1 for OSX and one for Windows.
The other thing I noticed is that like most all newer computers, XP does not have the drivers for the built in hardware. From what I could see on the video, Drivers will need to be collected for the built in isight (USB), the Network card, The ATI video, and most likely the sound card. Only the webcam driver will be hard to come by- mostly because we have no idea who makes it. From what I saw in the video , I’d say that this approach will result in a fully functional XP (or Vista) system, that will in fact be a very good windows computer.

I can't wait for Intel macbook.. If this holds up true, I am buying one and dual boot it to my happiness !!

[generik]

I rated this thread as negative. For me Apple computers represent a product that is exclusive, when you factor the fact that you can add a Microsoft OS onto a Apple computer, it makes it less exclusive.

I think a big part of Apple's success as far as ease of use is concerned has to do with their tight integration within their own products. For example iTunes and the iPod. If they loose this and allow Microsoft's OS to boot up on Apple's computers who knows what will happen. We may find more virus's heading our way, or we might find all other windows glitches on our Apple computers. I can understand how people need applications that just run on Microsoft's OS, but if that's the case don't buy a Apple computer, or buy both. Just my two cents.

Ken

Sorry, I disagree.

Apple computers are no more exclusive that a $500 run out of the mill Dell with an insideous chip incorporated into the computer at MY expense that is actively working against me, the LEGAL owner.

I find this hack a good thing. A computer is a computer. Yes, that includes a "Mac" too. Same CPU, same buses, same architecture, same everything.

You may live in a country where people of various ethnic groups have a variety of DRMed inplants around their.... *parts* and can't procreate together, but here everything is free and open. Computers should be the same.

I don't care about Apple's hardware-software integration. Sure, it is well done, but who is to say that it is perfect and should be dictated upon me, the LEGAL PAYING owner?

No one.

[Senbei]

Right, but you're not looking long-term. If this kind of thing goes mainstream, with time there will be no reason for companies to make Mac apps. Slowly, people will trickle back into using Windows as there are fewer and fewer Mac apps. Eventually, Macs will be down to a base of pro musicians, video editors, and compositors using Apple's pro software. Back to the "Macs are for creative pros" myth, back to the mid-90s when Apple was langushing in despair.
This argument is beating the same old dead horse. Using this line of logic, companies could have done this a long time ago and just told PowerPC Mac users to get a copy of Virtual PC with Windows XP in order to run their programs. Large software vendors who currently do make Mac software aren't that stupid enough to cut their own throat when they have a revenue stream with that native software nor are they going to suddenly stop writing for the Mac just because Windows can either be dual booted or run virtualized at near native speeds by expecting their customers to have to go out, buy a retail version of Windows, get their machines to dual boot or setup a virtualization software, and purchase their Windows-only program.

When Adobe and Microsoft needed to carbonize for Mac OS X, they could have done it then. Their respective Windows markets were much larger. Yet, they ported. They both could have told off Intel Mac users to not expect any universal binaries of their software and to just wait for a Windows dual boot/virtualization solution. Both are working at moving that code base to Xcode.

If anything, this value added capability will grow the Mac's mindshare especially amongst those who may have originally found it a risky proposition to consider a Mac. Now the possibility exists to have two legally usable environments in one system which is desirable for those of us who have no choice but to use Windows apps. This also now makes it attractive to that small market of Windows users who are actually looking at the Mac but are hesistant because of a greater number of issues with the most important one being able to use previously purchased software. This allows the ability to transition at their own pace by preserving their previous Windows software investments. None of this has a bearing on those Windows users who are happily content with Windows and/or don't even realize there is an alternative as well as current Mac users who have no need for this. No one is putting a gun to any Mac users head and saying you need to dual boot or you have to run virtualization software. This is currently a niche solution for a smaller number of Mac and Windows users. It has the potential to sell Mac's to those who may not have ever considered one before. If this can impact Apple's marketshare upwards, this will give software vendors more incentive to develop for the Mac, not retreat from it.

[suntzu]

I wonder if that windows 'flag' screen is like the apple screen. Something that covers up what ever its doing in the background. Maybe an openfirmware hack to push boot params from EFI to legacy? Seems rather odd not to just let it go to the normal black screen with grey blocks across the bottom. Acctually my first thought was that he was running a version of Vista.

I've seen custom boot screens on Windows XP (I have one) and I've read you can do it too with a custom Windows XP disc (using a program like nLite) so that's not a big concern.

What's getting me is that light to the right of the screen when it turns back on. Also, does anyone with an iMac know if the light glows when you restart the computer or start it from a cold stop?

[calculus]

What is Windows?

[suntzu]

What is Windows?

The less you know the better. :D

[calculus]

The less you know the better. :D
Is it bad?

[EvilDoc]

Is it bad?


In can be very bad for you, even in small dosages

[calculus]

In can be very bad for you, even in small dosages
Why do people want to put it on a mac? Are they bad?

[Lord Blackadder]

In can be very bad for you, even in small dosages

Then again, drinking nothing but Mac-zealot kool-aid can produce results like the guy above who thinks OS 9 is better than XP. :rolleyes:

[pjkelnhofer]

I can't see much good coming out of this.

When all kinds of people have Windows on their Macs and they start getting all the viruses that go along with it, think of the bad press Apple is going to get. They'll never mention that it's *Windows* getting the viruses, just that thousands of viruses are on peoples' Macs.
If there is a big Windows virus it would effect all Windows computers. I don't think that people reporting it would care about the small number of Macs running XP that were affected. People may be stupid, but I think they realize that it is the OS that gets the virus not the hardware. All it will do is emphasize that Mac running OS X were not infected and Windows is the problem!

If we want to climb into the conspiracy theory tree, we never saw anyone operating anything. It could have been a video playing fullscreen.
I think it is funny that people are still trying to find reasons this may not be true. The idea was submitted for testing. Can we really not all wait a few days to hear the results? I am sure those lucky nine people who are trying this are going to start the minute they get the instructions, not put it off for a few weeks!

[calculus]

Then again, drinking nothing but Mac-zealot kool-aid can produce results like the guy above who thinks OS 9 is better than XP. :rolleyes:
Blackboard and chalk is better than XP.

[dejo]

People may be stupid, but I think they realize that it is the OS that gets the virus not the hardware.

Want me to link a bunch of posts from these forums that prove some people think otherwise? They usually run along the lines of "OMG, now that Macs are going Intel, won't they be more susceptible to viruses?"

[dejo]

Except for that odd initial boot screen, white with the Windows XP logo?

Yeah, wouldn't something like this have looked cooler?

[DeathChill]

Just in case people are wondering the 200 MB FAT32 partition is what stores the EFI stuff. This is already present on Intel Mac's.

Apparently the XP install stuff is working quite well, as the osx86project people are mentioning. Waiting for more information.

[weldon]

Just wanted to point out that it is perfectly legit to buy the OEM version of Windows XP Media Center (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832102357) from Newegg.com for only $115. Media Center Edition is a superset of XP Pro so you get support for the Core Duo as well.

[tdar]

one MacBook tester and one Imac tester report that it works!

[tdar]

Just wanted to point out that it is perfectly legit to buy the OEM version of Windows XP Media Center (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832102357) from Newegg.com for only $115. Media Center Edition is a superset of XP Pro so you get support for the Core Duo as well.

That and a MacMini Core Duo + 2 or 4 USB TV tuners and you have a GREAT HTPC\DVR

[DeathChill]

one MacBook tester and one Imac tester report that it works!
Where are you seeing this? Just want to know so I can see what it works on because I'd LOVE it to work on my new Mini (once I order it :))

[Aztechian]

In the meantime, I'll prepare my "beating a dead horse" graphic for use once this thread grows beyond 10 pages... :cool:


Ooh, ooh, I can't wait for the beating a dead horse graphic!

[tdar]

Where are you seeing this? Just want to know so I can see what it works on because I'd LOVE it to work on my new Mini (once I order it :))
OSx86 project.....http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1797

a pic of the imac user with his XP install in progress

[Abulia]

Where are you seeing this? Just want to know so I can see what it works on because I'd LOVE it to work on my new Mini (once I order it :))On osx86project forums an iMac tester has posted confirmation shots of his iMac installing XP. Another MacBook Pro tester claims his is working.

[bluedevil14]

i the video looks real to me.
I like the idea of windows running on a mac, mostly for gamming
but i am wondering, what would happen if you get one or more of the many windows viruses out there on your mac. would it affect the whole machine or only the windows part?

[DeathChill]

Ah, I hadn't refreshed in time so I didn't see the picture of the iMac. This is quite awesome.

I'm REALLY interested in seeing if this works on the Mini, but I see no reason why it shouldn't.

Lucky narf, eh? $13,000 richer thanks to this.

Now I REALLY need to get on selling my Mini. ;)

[progx]

great now we have a crappy OS on amazing hardware. just what I want.

uh, i'd hate to break your heart, but Apple gave up "amazing hardware" for what everyone else is using.

i think what you mean to say is, "now we have a crappy OS on the same hardware that Dell sells, just wrapped in an Apple shell."

amazing hardware is the G5 and future PowerPC products; plus AMD's longstanding 64-bit and EFI supported processors, including the new Multicore ;)

[progx]

Ah, I hadn't refreshed in time so I didn't see the picture of the iMac. This is quite awesome.

I'm REALLY interested in seeing if this works on the Mini, but I see no reason why it shouldn't.

Lucky narf, eh? $13,000 richer thanks to this.

Now I REALLY need to get on selling my Mini. ;)

yeah, true. actually this proves a new point: if you can Windows on your Mac, what is the point of Mac OS X?

i mean, all the major software that is on the Mac is on Windows. not to mention, more selection, i mean you can go to Wal-Mart and buy a piece of software for your Windows Mac. isn't that weir?

[DeathChill]

uh, i'd hate to break your heart, but Apple gave up "amazing hardware" for what everyone else is using.

i think what you mean to say is, "now we have a crappy OS on the same hardware that Dell sells, just wrapped in an Apple shell."

amazing hardware is the G5 and future PowerPC products; plus AMD's longstanding 64-bit and EFI supported processors, including the new Multicore ;)
It's also true that the 'amazing hardware' in the Mac's is basically the exact same hardware in Dell's, though there's a bit of customization in them obviously. So yeah, there's no difference besides the case and the ability to run OS X without hacks.

Uh, EFI doesn't have anything to do with the processor, considering the fact that EFI was created and developed by Intel anyway. :P

Conroe, Intel's next chip, is amazing. It's not even clocked up high yet (but apparently scales well) and it beats today's fastest chips, which are also overclocked, by a large margin. That's awesome. :)

[DeathChill]

Wow, it even has a boot selector:
The First two show the boot selector. PC Boots up, you get the apple logo, press the down arrow key, get the windows logo, press enter, off you go into windows bliss (or something like that). The other two pics are self explanatory...
http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1801
http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1802

That's awesome. :):)

It's sad how exciting this is for me.

[progx]

It's also true that the 'amazing hardware' in the Mac's is basically the exact same hardware in Dell's, though there's a bit of customization in them obviously. So yeah, there's no difference besides the case and the ability to run OS X without hacks.

Uh, EFI doesn't have anything to do with the processor, considering the fact that EFI was created and developed by Intel anyway. :P

Conroe, Intel's next chip, is amazing. It's not even clocked up high yet (but apparently scales well) and it beats today's fastest chips, which are also overclocked, by a large margin. That's awesome. :)

still DeathChill, when a company spends more on advertising and less on research, you have to take it with a gain of salt.

i mean, isn't it interesting that AMD releases the biggest and best processors on the market, then Intel releases theirs. to be honest, who developed the first x86 64-bit processors? and from what my Windows friends have told me, the 64-bit Intels are way overpriced. i'll get prices for you later in the week if you want proof.

so, in reality, it was probably AMD that developed EFI first. it wouldn't be the first great idea that Intel has ripped off from them. it's just like Apple and Microsoft, one just talks and watches the little guy do all the work.

AMD is ahead of the game, we've just decided to fall in line and lose the hardware war. in terms of customizing the processors, there is probably not as much as you would think. any EFI supported processor can theoritically run Mac OS X. Voodoo has already proofed it, with no hacks and tricks. just a clean copy of Mac OS X running on a Voodoo Envy with an AMD 64-bit processor.

[DeathChill]

still DeathChill, when a company spends more on advertising and less on research, you have to take it with a gain of salt.

Indeed :) However Intel is FINALLY getting it right.

i mean, isn't it interesting that AMD releases the biggest and best processors on the market, then Intel releases theirs. to be honest, who developed the first x86 64-bit processors? and from what my Windows friends have told me, the 64-bit Intels are way overpriced. i'll get prices for you later in the week if you want proof.
Uh, I'm talking about Conroe, it's top chip is priced lower then AMD's top offerings and is faster then them as well.


so, in reality, it was probably AMD that developed EFI first. it wouldn't be the first great idea that Intel has ripped off from them. it's just like Apple and Microsoft, one just talks and watches the little guy do all the work.

EFI was developed by Intel, that's a given. I don't know why you're making such odd..odd accusations that AMD created it.


AMD is ahead of the game, we've just decided to fall in line and lose the hardware war. in terms of customizing the processors, there is probably not as much as you would think. any EFI supported processor can theoritically run Mac OS X. Voodoo has already proofed it, with no hacks and tricks. just a clean copy of Mac OS X running on a Voodoo Envy with an AMD 64-bit processor.

There's not such thing as an EFI supported processor. EFI is the equivalent of a BIOS, but more advanced. You seem to be pulling things out of your...bottom.. with that one. Mac OS X relies on specific EFI modules created by Apple, and unless this guy somehow got them and put them into his EFI flash ROM deal (which won't work as apparently it has to be done a special way as it was already tried). Mac OS X 10.4.5 already works on non-EFI computers (as is obvious by the fact any computer with SSE2 can run it).


as a Mac user, the best substitute for a PowerPC processor is an AMD. it's the closest you can get. don't defend Intel, because it's damn true and you all know it. without AMD, the x86 market wouldn't be like it is today.
I 100% agree that the x86 market wouldn't be the same without AMD. AMD pushed Intel to make better chips, and Intel is going to push AMD to make better chips.

EDIT: Also, this is NOT a flaming post so don't think I'm being rude or anything, I'm just having a fun argument. :):)

[ManchesterTrix]

No offense progx, you have no clue what you're talking about. EFI, was designed by Intel, AMD had nothing to do with EFI. And while AMD had the first and better 64bit solution, Intel had a much better mobile solution with their Pentium M. They're also responsible for little things like USB and PCIe.

[ethernet76]

Not quite convinced, sorry to say.

If I were the one to video the first Mac to boot Windows XP natively, I'll pretty much make sure the people watching it are absolutely convinced! So, if you zoom in on the processor info, make sure it is readable.... can't be that much of a problem....
These guys are pretty much doing their best not to be very assuring. :rolleyes:

BTW... about Windows gaming on an Intel Mac.
OK, assuming XP does run, is the grfx card 100% supported? No Mac-ROM code on it? What about sound? It wouldn't surprize me that DirectX isn't supported.
Don't get too over excited that an iMac Intel could run Half Life 2.

EDIT: good to see the ol' Blackie-'tar back, Lord Blackadder

I would be surprised if the sound did not work. Since Apple does not make their own motherboards i'd assume they're similar to what you'd find onboard on any other intel chipset motherboard.

[deadturtle]

Also, does anyone with an iMac know if the light glows when you restart the computer or start it from a cold stop?

My mac glows whenever I turn it on, or press a key to bring it back from sleep... as in brighter to show input then back down to normal 'on' brightness.

[Whistleway]

It looks things are for real.. check out the pics from a tester.

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=11731&st=140&p=76489&#entry76489

[Detlev]

Indeed :) However Intel is FINALLY getting it right.
Wasn't there something in the news about Intel last week and that their sales/orders are quite off?

[DeathChill]

Wasn't there something in the news about Intel last week and that their sales/orders are quite off?
No clue, but it doesn't really matter because of the fact that their newest CPU's are currently doing an amazing job and their next desktop chip looks to be amazing as well. Sales mean nothing. :)

[iMeowbot]

Wasn't there something in the news about Intel last week and that their sales/orders are quite off?
Yep, they had some real weakness in desktop chips sales in the US market. That's kind of expected when the whole world knows that Pentium is on the way out.

[deadturtle]

The photos that are posted are very exciting. Good camera, good size, good lighting. Deff. some serious driver issues, but that is kinda expected no?

[DeathChill]

The photos that are posted are very exciting. Good camera, good size, good lighting. Deff. some serious driver issues, but that is kinda expected no?
Well, it's expected not to have driver support out of the box, but I'd be likely to bet using Intel's 945 chipset drivers would provide support for most of the main components.

[spikeovsky]

Not sure if any of you are familiar with the online comic, Sluggy Freelance, but this particular strip from way back in 1997 says it all:

http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=970826

:D

[SeaFox]

OK- thanks- but can you format one partition as HFS and one as Fat32 or whatever? Basically asking if you can literally boot both OSs off the same hard drive, or if you need two.

Sure, you can do partitions of two differnt formats on one disk. How do you think people dual boot Linux and Windows on a PC? It's actually easier then when you try with two separate hard drives.

In the video, the device list is shown and I think the purpose was to show us two different partitions, but the shakey camera work makes the screen unreadable.

You can get software called MacDrive ($50) for the Windows side and that would allow it to read HFS/HFS+ formatted disks, so you sould still access your documents from the Mac side. I have it and for the most part it makes my PC as platform agnostic when it comes to removable media as, well, my Mac has been since system 7.5. MacDrive also can read type/creator codes on files so even if they don't have a filename extension it will be able to have them opened by the right Windows app.

[AidenShaw]

and from what my Windows friends have told me, the 64-bit Intels are way overpriced. i'll get prices for you later in the week if you want proof.
64-bit Intel - $481

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DE310SAP&s=dhs

[SeaFox]

It looks things are for real.. check out the pics from a tester.

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=11731&st=140&p=76489&#entry76489


That's cool. And it explains the Windows logo on white (grey) background from the video. Although I'd rather it be a keyboard-based selector. So when you boot up you just hold down 'm' (or 'x') for OSX and 'w' for Windows to boot (and be able to set a default mode if nothing is held down).

[Electro Funk]

I would be surprised if the sound did not work. Since Apple does not make their own motherboards i'd assume they're similar to what you'd find onboard on any other intel chipset motherboard.

GO GOLDEN FLASHES!!!!! sorry to get off topic but noticed you are @ Kent State (Which is my Alma Mater also). We are ranked 12th (or 14th) this year!!!

This is huge!!! we never had any good sports teams up there... u gonna watch the game on saturday??? MARCH MADNESS BABY!!!:D

Hopefully Pittsburgh doesnt knock us right out :p

[seashellz]

Dig it.

The "NEW!" WINDOWS VISTA is now stuck in the Stone-Age, (using BIOS)-almost a rusty relic-with neither WFS or EFI--***IF*** if it even arrives in 2006 (dont bet on it).

We now (or soon will have) Windows running on Macs-a boon to those who will still need to use Windows apps at work-they can now buy a Mac.

And finally, if Steve would get up off his butt and create OS X for PCs-
he would sell millions more copies of "X"-and likely drag a few more "switchers" over to the Mac Hardware side.

A HELL of a lot more;

When 10.5 comes out, all hell could break loose;

And the world would be a peach for Steve to reach for and catch-or drop.

[PtMD]

Good news, the solution is confirmed to work on the MBP (no specs avaliable) and the 17" iMac. Tweaks are underway for the mini and 20" imac... :D

[deadturtle]

Well, it's expected not to have driver support out of the box, but I'd be likely to bet using Intel's 945 chipset drivers would provide support for most of the main components.

Yeah I'm trying to think back to the last time I clean installed on our Intel Chipsets at work, and what drivers I needed then. We ImageCast most of the computers, and my brain is sludge so I can remember!

[DeathChill]

Yeah I'm trying to think back to the last time I clean installed on our Intel Chipsets at work, and what drivers I needed then. We ImageCast most of the computers, and my brain is sludge so I can remember!
You can just go to the Intel website and grab the 945 chipset drivers and hope for the best. If we can get the exact version numbers of each component it'd probably ease the pain of finding drivers, but for now it won't hurt anything to give the 945 chipset drivers a shot.

[dotdotdot]

The video looks cool, but XP startup was quick! A lot quicker than my first XP install (prompts you to take a stupid tour... not in the movie but whatever)

[ModestPenguin]

I'm so giddy about this, in a horrible horrible stomache sinking way. wheee.....ew....mixed emotions everywhere.

games for me!

[celebrian23]

I would love this feature if ever it could become fully functional. Mostly because even though I'm not a huge gamer, there are some games that I love to death and I'm quite sad I can't play them once I switch to macs in June. Like in rollercoaster tycoon 1 and 2 you can kill people, but on rollercoaster 3 for mac, you can't, which is kind of a letdown. It'd also be great for my family because as the only pro-apple person in my family, I could use mac os x and my family could exclusively use windows xp. From a business perspective, if this becomes possible (as in easy to use and anyone could do it and full functional) it would be a great thing, especially for businesses that need special programs only made for windows. It'd also be good if you could use windows at work and when you get home you could use the mac.

[Meemoo]

Is it dual booting, or simply booting?

[tonybeak]

It's capable of dual. You have to enter a keyboard shortcut with the arrow keys or something to choose which OS.

[SeaFox]

Is it dual booting, or simply booting?

The contest rules specify it has to be dual booting. Both OS's have to be able to coexist on one machine (not necessarily running at the same time).

[Kaiser Phoenix]

I would love this feature if ever it could become fully functional. Mostly because even though I'm not a huge gamer, there are some games that I love to death and I'm quite sad I can't play them once I switch to macs in June.

Yeah I agree with this post. It would be great to have games to play and using certain programs when you want without having to have 2 different desktops!

[iMeowbot]

The contest rules specify it has to be dual booting. Both OS's have to be able to coexist on one machine (not necessarily running at the same time).
Yep, and in fact running at the same time would disqualify an entry. No virtual machines are allowed.

[uncle]

http://darwine.opendarwin.org/ off topic

"Darwine project intends to port and develop WINE as well as other supporting tools that will allow Darwin and Mac OS X users to run Windows Applications, and to provide a Win32 API compatibility at application source code level"

" New Darwine release is out, based upon the wine-0.9.7 release. This is the first Darwine release with x86 Mac support."
.........................
Now at 0.9.9

Not emulation and without windows (?)

Wouldn't this be more of a finesse...... no need to even dual boot just fire up the grey apps from OSX (?)

Congrates to the winners of the competition.

[DeathChill]

Well, it kinda sucks that it has to be custom-tailored for each machine model, but I guess that's to be expected.

As well, it doesn't seem to look like that the x1600XT drivers don't seem to work on Windows thus far. I'm hoping for acceleration of everything, but the Mini should be fine as it uses the standard Intel GMA 950.

Another nice thing is that apparently wireless will work fine as the Broadcom chipset used has a Windows driver available.

[iMeowbot]

Wouldn't this be more of a finesse...... no need to even dual boot just fire up the grey apps from OSX???
Wine is nice when it works. Application support is nowhere near comprehensive, though. After a dozen years I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to become a real substitute for Windows.

[Aztechian]

... From a business perspective, if this becomes possible (as in easy to use and anyone could do it and full functional) it would be a great thing, especially for businesses that need special programs only made for windows. It'd also be good if you could use windows at work and when you get home you could use the mac.

Honestly, I cant see any businesses that would get on board with this. It won't be supported by Apple, so why would the business absorb all the burden of support and replacements costs when they could just buy a dell. Maybe a small business of a few employees, but not a business of any size.

[uncle]

Wine is nice when it works. Application support is nowhere near comprehensive, though. After a dozen years I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to become a real substitute for Windows.

ahh... ok

speculation / stream of something .... would sw developers support wine if there were numourous wintels running 0sx, that is, if osx was an option for a truly convergent os (?)

no...... i'm being a noooob :rolleyes: :D

[shooterlv]

OSx86 project.....http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1797

a pic of the imac user with his XP install in progress

don't know if anyone noticed this but the instructions are written there on a piece of paper next to the iMac

[slooksterPSV]

What format are the drives in these things? I'm confused because I thought XP doesn't recognize HFS. I guess I'm just slow...:confused:
Mac's have HFS, XP Recognizes them as EFI because of the Enhanced Firmware Interface, that's the only recognizable thing so it labels it as EFI. XP can only read FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, and NSS(??), but you have to have external support for HFS and those. Partition Magic will allow you to create EXT2 volumes and that, not sure if they mount on XP (I don't think so, I've dual booted with EXT2 and Resirfs). Anyways, you're good?

[iMeowbot]

speculation/ stream of something .... would sw developers support wine if there were numourous wintels running 0sx, that is, if osx was an option for a truly convergent os (?)
Corel and Borland did try something like this in the Linux world, using the related winelib tools to port WordPerfect and Delphi. Corel abandoned their product years ago, and I don't think that Kylix has seen an update in a few years. That's been about it, and somehow I don't expect things to be different when OS X joins the club.

A more likely development would be commercial Wine-based products from Codeweavers that get updated from time to time to support more programs. The Codeweavers stuff runs quite a bit more software than the public Wine, but you do need to check first that the programs you want to run are supported.

don't know if anyone noticed this but the instructions are written there on a piece of paper next to the iMac
That turned out to be instructions for the earlier EFI menu experiments that were discussed on Nakfull Propaganda a while back.

[rvillanu]

This is my first post, the lurker rises. I've been following this closely and I am abolutely thrilled that this is a possibility. I purchased my iMac Intel with the hopes that a dual boot could be accomplished. The main reason for buying my iMac was because I am starting a photography busisness and this was the obvious choice. But between 8-5pm I am a Microsoft application and website developer and have been lugging my laptop back and forth from work. No more I say to you!! Now I can develop in Visual Studio and run my photograpy business from ONE machine. I saved my XP Pro hard drive from my personal notebook that died on me. If I could boot off of that and reconfigure the device manager I could just about die. Maybe for some this isn't such a big deal, but for software professionals that need both OS's on one awesome machine this is truly incredible. Just imagine the impact this can have in the real world for a minute. In a place of business like mine where I am the graphic designer/developer I can acheive all my tasks from one machine...wow.

[adam1185]

Well I guess it's official now.

Just saw this on onmac.net
Latest Update

Contest has been won - updates to follow shortly. All further donations will go into an account to sustain the open source project that will be launched with the initial solution. There are still many bugs to be worked out!

[1dterbeest]

http://www.onmac.net/

hopefully they can get the bugs worked out fairly
quickly and reveal the solution to all of us.

not that I would try it though. I don't need windows
for anything at all. not one thing!

[DOUGHNUT]

the solution will be released tomorrow. There is likely to be three solutions, one for MacBook Pro and 17" iMac, one for Mac mini and another one for 20" iMac.

[DCapple]

This could have far reaching effects in the software industry..
Some good...Some bad...
Are developers going to just forget about OS X and stick with Windows?

I really believe if the solution is a viable one and doesn't break any laws it's going to force Steve Job's hand in making OS X for PeeCees..

Just watch..

And the solution is real...
It has been handed over to 9 people for testing
http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1

is this safe to install Windows OS to Mac?:confused:

[iEdd]

I have read this whole thread, but have some questions. I apologise if they've been covered, but it's hard to read and take in hundreds of posts.
#1. How does one get to become a tester?
#2. When can we expect the full instructions public on the net
#3. What are the known bugs?
Thanks

[zerolight]

The video looks cool, but XP startup was quick! A lot quicker than my first XP install (prompts you to take a stupid tour... not in the movie but whatever)

You can skip the "stupid tour".

Anyway, clearly they edited the video to prevent boredom. An XP install reboots your computer a couple of times during the install, and takes around 30 mins or more to complete. That's just the edited highlights. Not that I care, I just bought a PowerMac. I won't be switching to the Mactel for at least 18 months.