Apple iPhone Integration and a Media Device? (Patents)

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A search of the European Patent Office reveals (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=US7003260&F=0&QPN=US7003260) a patent application from Apple entitled "Database programs for handheld devices" that was published in Feb 2006.

As advertised, the patent describes techniques for providing access to databases from handheld devices. The application, however, incidentally points out that "the remote handheld device can, for example, be a wireless phone which uses a telecom server to communicate with the database program".

Apple describes limitations in current implementations in that "the user may use a remote wireless phone to find a phone number stored in a database, but there is no convenient way for the user to place a call to that phone number." The patent application describes methods for accessing remote databases and hyperlinking relevant data (urls, phone numbers etc...) to perform tasks conveniently -- such as dialing.

The application shows images of a cell phone interface (http://guides.macrumors.com/Gallery_of_iPhone_Patents) demonstrating the interactions.

While not mentioned specifically in the patent application, Apple could presumably use this method to offer live-synced Address Book functionality between a user's cell phone and their .Mac account. Apple already offers Address Book syncing (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/addressbook/) between Mac OS X Tiger and .Mac.

While Apple has previously said that they did not feel they can add much value to current cell phones, it appears Apple could offer the same tight device-computer-operating system integration that has been so successful for the iPod.

Several analysts expect (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060319140832.shtml) an Apple branded phone to appear in the next 12 months.

Meanwhile, another Apple patent application (http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=USD516576S&F=0) published on March 7, 2006 is entitled "Media device" and appears to date back to 2004. The description simply states "We claim the ornamental design for a media device, substantially as shown and described." This may simply represent a design for the recently released iPod nano (http://guides.macrumors.com/iPod_nano) or 5G iPod (http://guides.macrumors.com/iPod_(5G)), but no images are associated with the online patent application.

[mymacluvsme]

In the UK? Interesting, indeed. This year just can't go fast enough for me....

[madmaxmedia]

Maybe that touch screen device is actually the phone? I imagine not, but still...

You'd think it would need physical buttons, but such a device would have a potentially great interface for other functions. Music, media, web browsing, photos, PDA type functions, etc.

[(L)]

hmmm? An Apple phone? Won't hit big here in Japan anyway...

[Fotek2001]

hmmm? An Apple phone? Won't hit big here in Japan anyway...

Unless it has... a Hello Kitty logo on it.

[nubero]

interesting: on the pictures you can see "5201 patrick henry drive santa clara"

that is the adress of filemaker inc...

[balamw]

Images for the March 7 patent application are available from the USPTO.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=D516,576.WKU.&OS=PN/D516,576&RS=PN/D516,576

Click on Images.

It's just the 5G iPod.

B

[Arcady]

Is this Phone Rumors? No, it it is Mac Rumors.

Isn't it?

[miketcool]

interesting: on the pictures you can see "5201 patrick henry drive santa clara"

that is the adress of filemaker inc...

Makes sense to me, good call out to the guys at Filemaker. The phone patent is for the ability to connect to a remote database. Isnt that what Filemaker does, database management?

I have been waiting for an awesome implication of that. A way to look at my central server without carrying all my info around. Google knows this. I hope Apple knows this. iPods will become connection devices for streaming your info. It is possible that the Mobile Me and a future iPod are the same, not a phone. Instead its a device that links you with your info. Bump up the .Mac storage, get a new center for storage, and the device that links it and its sold. I pull my iPod Mobile out and everything is there, but not. It downloads into the ram and bango, I can use it. Think about it.

"Meet the new iPod, ? songs in your pocket!"

Why carry around all your info, when you can carry the magic mirror that shows it?:rolleyes:

[iMeowbot]

The interface shown already exists. It's a DoCoMo phone (http://tamsan.com/keitai/docoido34.html) from NEC. (N502it is the color version.)
http://tamsan.com/keitai/n502ico.jpg
It's also an older phone, from 2000 or so. Odd.

[Edit: It makes more sense now. The Apple phone patent was filed back in 2002, when Apple and NTT announced their multimedia partnership.

This is a granted patent, not an application. The US patent number is 7,003,260 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,003,260.WKU.&OS=PN/7,003,260&RS=PN/7,003,260)
]

[balamw]

I couldn't add this to my last post for some reason...

43530

B

[tny]

Images for the March 7 patent application are available from the USPTO.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=D516,576.WKU.&OS=PN/D516,576&RS=PN/D516,576

Click on Images.

It's just the 5G iPod.

B

That's a 4G iPod: it has the smaller screen and the old remote connector, with the head phone connector at the center, but doesn't have the 3G row of buttons or the hard buttons around the scroll wheel you'd expect from the 2G or 1G.

[Squire]

Is this Phone Rumors? No, it it is Mac Rumors.

Isn't it?

And this report refers to a Mac Phone.

Doesn't it?


Makes sense to me, good call out to the guys at Filemaker. The phone patent is for the ability to connect to a remote database. Isnt that what Filemaker does, database management?

I have been waiting for an awesome implication of that. A way to look at my central server without carrying all my info around. Google knows this. I hope Apple knows this. iPods will become connection devices for streaming your info. It is possible that the Mobile Me and a future iPod are the same, not a phone. Instead its a device that links you with your info. Bump up the .Mac storage, get a new center for storage, and the device that links it and its sold. I pull my iPod Mobile out and everything is there, but not. It downloads into the ram and bango, I can use it. Think about it.

"Meet the new iPod, ? songs in your pocket!"

Why carry around all your info, when you can carry the magic mirror that shows it?:rolleyes:

Good points. Or maybe the phone would just pick up the info on your iPod via wifi or Bluetooth. (Or is that what you were getting at?) Wasn't there a recent rumor of iPods with Bluetooth and/or Wifi? This idea would make it that much more credible.

-Squire

<edit>
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

MacPrime.ch claims (http://www.macprime.ch/article.php?story=details_special_event_1_april_2006) to have knowledge of an April 1st Special Event from Apple marking their 30th anniversary.

According to the site, Apple will be releasing a new product ("ultimate") which is related to "communication", will be available in 7 different colors, and will be immediately available.

No known history of reliability with this site. Apple has been widely speculated to hold some sort of media event surrounding April 1st, but no reliable information has confirmed it.

Hmmm...Is there a pattern here?

[bigandy]

Is this Phone Rumors? No, it it is Mac Rumors.

Isn't it?

well done there. we're on an apple rumours site - i.e. a site which caters for rumours to do with the company Apple Computer, Inc.

correct me if i'm mistaken, but this is to do with Apple. :rolleyes:

yeah it's been more than mac stuff for a long while but i don't care - more apple products = good

[Abstract]

I have been waiting for an awesome implication of that. A way to look at my central server without carrying all my info around. Google knows this. I hope Apple knows this. iPods will become connection devices for streaming your info. It is possible that the Mobile Me and a future iPod are the same, not a phone. Instead its a device that links you with your info. Bump up the .Mac storage, get a new center for storage, and the device that links it and its sold. I pull my iPod Mobile out and everything is there, but not. It downloads into the ram and bango, I can use it. Think about it.

Yeah, I think I know what you're getting at. What I want is something .Mac and Apple can offer.


I don't want "internet", really. I don't see the point of going on the internet on my phone, and unless it was dirt cheap, I probably wouldn't use it. Instead of giving me a certain number of internet minutes that I can use on my phone, I'd rather have unlimited access to .Mac and just pay a $200 fee per year, and only have the ability to access .Mac from my phone, and with no ability to access other websites. That's enough for me. I could email from my phone using a .Mac email account, look up the info I store in Address Book.app (synced with .Mac), look at my calendar, look up any other files I store on .Mac like photos and music (although streaming songs to your phone with a slow connection would be impossible, I realize), and generally let me look at anything that I have at .Mac. It could be like a BlackBerry but without "real" web access. Raise the price if you need this service, but I think it would be worth a lot.

Also note that Apple bought a new huge storage facility full of storage clusters, I think in California. People said it might be used for the iTMS and movie downloads, but who knows. :)

[Abstract]

interesting: on the pictures you can see "5201 patrick henry drive santa clara"

that is the adress of filemaker inc...

"You know you're a geek when....." *points up* :p

[Jason_Bryan]

It seems to me that when people talk about an Apple branded phone it is always a Mobile (Cell) Phone they are talking about. I think that with the issues that arise from having to deal with individual phone networks Apple with probably want to think different and work on something like a VoIP phone working in tandem with iChat. Apple has always pioneered wireless networks and hotspots are becoming more and more common, but beyond that the success of Skype has proved that people want to use 'internet phones in the their own homes.

[Arcady]

And this report refers to a Mac Phone.

Doesn't it?

No, it refers to an "iPhone" which we've been hearing about for five years, and still haven't seen. It is in the same realm as Disney buying Apple, the PowerBook G5, and anything Dvorak might come up with.

Now, if Apple were to release a phone, they would be silly to make it only work with a Mac. They already learned this lesson with the iPod. So it isn't a Mac phone.

I just don't get why people get all excited over things like a phone. You dial numbers in, and call people. What can Apple add to something like that? For me, nothing. I take whatever phone is free every two years, but I guess some people really care about what phone they have -- but care enough to justify three stories on the front page of this site?

As a side note, does anyone else think that these "analysts" are just reading these rumor sites to make up their info, and then the rumor sites are reporting on what the analyst said, and the circle is just going around and around?

[liketom]

In the UK? Interesting, indeed. This year just can't go fast enough for me....
when do we ever get it first :rolleyes: lol
iPhone is maybe a step to far , Apple make computers and great software - the only way Apple will make a iPhone is via a 3rd Party like Moto or Samsung

[Squire]

No, it refers to an "iPhone" which we've been hearing about for five years, and still haven't seen. It is in the same realm as Disney buying Apple, the PowerBook G5, and anything Dvorak might come up with.

Good point. Now you're catching on to the rumors part of it. ;)

In all serious, though, whenever you see a Mac-related site, Mac is synonymous with Apple. I mean, they deal with anything remotely related to Apple, not just things affecting Apple's computers and OS X. But you already know that, right?

-Squire

[Arcady]

I think this site needs a page 3 for stuff like this.

[lonepilgrim]

I just don't get why people get all excited over things like a phone. You dial numbers in, and call people. What can Apple add to something like that? For me, nothing.
That is precisely why you don't work for Apple!

Edit: And I've just seen your signature:
"The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a 'mouse.' There is no evidence that people want to use these things."
-John C. Dvorak, SF Examiner, Feb. 1984.

Oh, the irony.

[Squire]

I think this site needs a page 3 for stuff like this.

It's a patent for crying out loud! Not a story passed on by the person who walks the dog of the Taiwanese shop owner down the street whose second cousin cleans the toilets in a factory that makes Apple products.

In other words, they have seriously looked into building the thing. I think it's fine on the front page. And I could never understand why people complain about what page a certain story goes on. It's placed here because of a certain degree of credibility and the amount of interest it will generate. I mean, it got you. You've posted three times already.

-Squire

[liketom]

It's a patent for crying out loud! Not a story passed on by the person who walks the dog of the Taiwanese shop owner down the street whose second cousin cleans the toilets in a factory that makes Apple products.



-Squire

:D thats funny - makes you wonder why we do not get any leaks from these so called factorys, Apple seems to have that coverd up tight


ps i am that person who walks the dog ;)

[MacQuest]

hmmm? An Apple phone? Won't hit big here in Japan anyway...

How's the iPod doing over there? I know that there were a lot of other portable music players available there before it...

I'm actually just wondering, because I remember hearing the reports of Sony being extremely upset with the iPod/iTunes success over their Walkman[s]/Sony Connect music service in their own country.

Looks like Apple pulled a reverse Pearl Harbor on Sony in the portable music player amd accompanying service market.

[MacQuest]

hmmm? An Apple phone? Won't hit big here in Japan anyway...

Unless it has... a Hello Kitty logo on it.

:D Now that was funny!

[Analog Kid]

I think this site needs a page 3 for stuff like this.
I think this site needs more users who talk about content and spend less time complaining about what goes on what page... It's not like there are so many posts that the good stuff is scrolling right off the bottom.

As far as the phone, I keep thinking someone needs to get past the everything in the phone model and towards the phone as a gateway to information you have elsewhere. .Mac integration would be a start, but I'd prefer to have direct access to my home Mac. Address book, iTunes, photos, etc.

I know Apple is pushing .Mac hard, but even as someone who has ponied up the $100 since it came online, I'm getting kind of tired of the tie-ins. I'd rather see it as an enhancement, not something else you need to make your iWeb purchase worthwhile.

I've got a Mac, I've got broadband and a static IP. I want the phone to be able to find my machine and make use of it. Granted, static IPs are becoming pretty uncommon for home users, but there are ways to link to dynamic IPs as well.

[Spanky Deluxe]

An Apple phone would have to be simply revolutionary for me to bother buying it. There's no chance of me switching from Nokias any time soon, I've just been disappointed with everything else out there and I doubt Apple can do that much new! I'd like to believe in a cool phone product that would interest me enought to buy it but I doubt it'll happen. :(

[cycocelica]

Another iPhone thread? :rolleyes:

[Shamus]

i hope this is something awesomely innovative...not just another phone. :)

[weg]

Apple describes limitations in current implementations in that "the user may use a remote wireless phone to find a phone number stored in a database, but there is no convenient way for the user to place a call to that phone number." The patent application describes methods for accessing remote databases and hyperlinking relevant data (urls, phone numbers etc...) to perform tasks conveniently -- such as dialing.


How is it possible that Apple can get a patent for such a triviality?? Technically, all my Google Talk and Skype numbers are stored in a database, and I find it quite easy to make a call to those numbers...

EDIT: Oh, before somebody says "yeah, but Google Talk and Skype don't run on a cell phone":
Netgear Skype phone (http://tools.netgear.com/skype/), Skype for Windows Mobile (http://www.skype.com/download/skype/mobile/)

[MacQuest]

An Apple phone would have to be simply revolutionary for me to bother buying it. There's no chance of me switching from Nokias any time soon, I've just been disappointed with everything else out there and I doubt Apple can do that much new! I'd like to believe in a cool phone product that would interest me enought to buy it but I doubt it'll happen. :(

You just copied this post from late 2001, replaced "mp3 player' with "phone", and "Creative/iRiver/Sony" with "Nokia", didn't you?

;)

[Analog Kid]

How is it possible that Apple can get a patent for such a triviality?? Technically, all my Google Talk and Skype numbers are stored in a database, and I find it quite easy to make a call to those numbers...

EDIT: Oh, before somebody says "yeah, but Google Talk and Skype don't run on a cell phone":
Netgear Skype phone (http://tools.netgear.com/skype/), Skype for Windows Mobile (http://www.skype.com/download/skype/mobile/)
To really know, you'd have to look at the claims. You'd be amazed how many trivial patents are issued. Most of the talk centers on the discussion (such as the Spotlight patent thread), but the only things protected are the claims.

The rest of the text in the patent can serve to show where a company plans to apply the innovation, though.

[kskill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Idzum1SI8U&feature=Recent&page=1&t=t&f=b


fake?

[Fotek2001]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Idzum1SI8U&feature=Recent&page=1&t=t&f=b

fake?

Can you post a picture, I can't see anything there...

[xUKHCx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Idzum1SI8U&feature=Recent&page=1&t=t&f=b


fake?

the picture is the really really old mock up of a sony ericsson (iirc) definately a fake. Just a youtube link to this picture

http://emedia.brookes.ac.uk/ee/04images/iphone.jpg

[ezekielrage_99]

Is this another one of those "iPhonies" going around the web again?

When I am using my G5 PowerBook and uploading videos to my Video iPod while chatting on my iPhone about how good the specs are on the Intel iBook then I'll believe it......

Until I see iPhone in an Apple store I wont be getting to excited.

[longofest]

Interesting that Microsoft just added Entourage iSync integration into Office... perhaps they got a tip-off from Steve because of their renewed commitments to each other.

[celebrian23]

I guess for me the issue is, how is apple going to market such a phone to windows users? That's why the ipod didn't flop- it was compatible fully with both platforms. Tell me as a current windows user what this phone can do for me.

[jimN]

I think this site needs a page 3 for stuff like this.

You're right, adding a 'page 3' would definitely increase traffic - sure all the UK residents will back me up on this one. Although having said that it normally only takes a couple of prime shots of macs with shells off to get the average forum poster's juices flowing!

For more information on third page stories check out The Sun newspaper - welcome to a world beyond apple.

[jimN]

the picture is the really really old mock up of a sony ericsson (iirc) definately a fake. Just a youtube link to this picture

http://emedia.brookes.ac.uk/ee/04images/iphone.jpg

I quite like it! Very plain but not fiddly as a consequence (hate the flat buttons on the current motorolas). Plus the ubiquitous click-wheel. For me an apple phoen doesn't have to be a revolution, it just has to work (perfectly).

[longofest]

I guess for me the issue is, how is apple going to market such a phone to windows users? That's why the ipod didn't flop- it was compatible fully with both platforms. Tell me as a current windows user what this phone can do for me.

possible Apple marketing:

*It will play your iTunes, and WELL (not like previous attempts with MOTO)
*It will probably sync with Outlook on PC, but they might add that functionality after they launch (serve macs first)
*It will be sexy, and you will drool over it
*It is Apple, therefore you will want it

Some of those you may think are ridiculous, but remember that Apple right now has huge brand weight that it can throw. Apple is basically synonymous with "cool", so unless they intro something that is completely stupid, they will get a good response.

[MrCrowbar]

I'd love to have an apple phone. Although I am a technocrat, I don't like modern phones because of their inteface. I love the old nokias for the simple menus, but the newer models tend to have a much too complicated interface (for a phone).

Apple has always managed to make great and simple intefraces for complex mashines. If there wasn't text messagong and writing notes into a calendar, a clickwheel would be perfect for dialing (like the old phones you see in retirement castles with dialing wheels). With a touchscreen however, possibilities are endless, especially when it has multitouch (you could type with 2 thumbs like most advanced cell phone users do). I'd love a full screen iPod with some kind of front row on it (replace DVD by Phone in the main menu). AutoSync with iCal, iTunes, iCal, iPhoto and AdressBook would make it perfect.

[rock6079]

interestingly looprumors.com posts about an "iPhone" and telephony integration in leopard today. i believe this is real, so man sources are pointing towards it

link (http://looprumors.com/Pages/leopardinfo0321006.html)

[BRLawyer]

Please, guys...let's put this rumor to rest...an Apple iPhone is probably the thing Apple is LEAST interested in...the market IS saturated, margins are low as hell...

Besides, Apple has stated that it has little to add in terms of features/offers...

A mobile phone with iTunes and click wheel? Possible...but foolish anyway.

Please file this under "loss-making projects", will ya?

[craig jones]

Looking at the patent, all that's novel is that the remote device is handheld. There's certainly prior art for that, as handheld tablets have been used for that prior to 2002. Being able to attack at least some of the claims is certainly doable but that's not what a company wants to do. Companies what to deny infringement, not deny validity. It will be really difficult to deny infringment on claim 1, but really easy to invalidate it.

Accessing databases from a phone is doable today in a variety of forms. That's what data access was originally used for after all. Pocket Express is a clear example. You can look up phone numbers and addresses, 1-click add them to your address book, 1-click call them, and 1-click map them. This sort of thing is commonplace but, of course, that's all the better for the patenter. The goal is to obtain a broad patent on the obvious. Apple has appeared to have accomplished just this.

What Apple intends to offer to the market is not revealed in this patent. Perhaps access to your address book kept online. That would be nice, but considering it's a subscription service why wouldn't I pay $25 a year to have access to the entire phone directory instead? Maybe they'll offer that too. At any rate, Apple could offer this through existing smartphones. They don't need their own phone to do it. If Apple does indeed introduce a phone that they differentiate in this manner, it would be par for the course for them. Nothing other than a potentially interesting take on existing ideas coupled with hardware lockin. Apple is likely to offer more than this, or at least I hope so.

[whooleytoo]

To be honest, I'd quite happily shell out for a new phone if it had the feature set of existing phones (3G, Bluetooth, camera etc., easy to use UI) PLUS one feature - speed. The sluggishness of phone UIs really bugs the hell out of me.

[balamw]

That's a 4G iPod
You're right, which is why I posted the picture.

A picture is worth a thousand typos.

B

[(L)]

Unless it has... a Hello Kitty logo on it.

Well, the problem with an iPhone in Japan is above all else a problem of service and context. Service, in that here you can get a phone for free and pay special rates based on family, lover, schoolchildren, etc payment plans. Phones come with cameras and other funky features like TV, IM-like free chat, email, Java and Brew games, Internet service, GPS, international service, and every other gimmick. Contextually, even if Apple could provide the service, it is expected to come in a phone that is small...none of this gigantic keyboard-sporting two-handers, no bulky brick-like models. There was a photo of an American cell phone here recently, something about it being thin or whatever...here, the context is that there are already all sorts of phones, which necessarily must be small and yet often packed with features - a messy art that has been perfectly imperfected. Or imperfectly perfected.

Notably, one company (Tu-ka) played smart and made a simple cell phone for older people and anybody who wants to cut the crap (hey, I rarely use most of those bells and whistles anyway)...Tu-ka scored on that one. Apple cannot beat Tu-ka's simplicity, assuming they include features beyond a mobile phone. If they go beyond, they need email, cell mail, and a camera, along with tunes, and a color screen. Then they need a keypad that will allow for Japanese character input, which is impossible to make easier (50 phonetic letters + conversion dictionary + converion method all in about, 10 keys = chaotic finger exercises). If they could make a serious and easy to use fancy iPhone, great, but then try to sell it with the competing forerunners that have essentially done a fairly good job of it already, and you get a country the iPhone won't enter. Maybe if it were as thin as the Nano when folded shut, in other words, so extremely great a design that it will make ripples and open new doors, but otherwise, even Mac users will think twice before buying.

[skopcho]

The first time I used ORB to stream my home music collection to my phone, I thought, "Why do I need an iPod with a hard drive any more?" Anybody who has used that can see the future. If you can stream your home music (and perfect video btw) to a device anywhere you can get cellular service, the device can be even smaller and can theoretically "hold" infinite amounts of data. If you haven't checked out ORB, do so to see what I mean (it's free!). This wouldn't really kill the iPod either as there are tons of times you wouldn't be in a service area or would want instantaneous access. Even better reason to integrate it into a phone, thus the iPhone rumors.

If Apple comes out with a phone and doesn't have this functionality built in, they're idiots.

[(L)]

How's the iPod doing over there? I know that there were a lot of other portable music players available there before it...

I'm actually just wondering, because I remember hearing the reports of Sony being extremely upset with the iPod/iTunes success over their Walkman[s]/Sony Connect music service in their own country.


Meh. iPod's doing so-so I guess. Really, I don't know. Remember, with the language complication and all the differences in UI expectations, even computers seem drastically more complex to Japanese users, while probably being easier in some ways as well.

Sony is pretty big in Japan, but the iPod is getting more attention, possibly because Sony's purple bubbly thing doesn't even appeal enough to slap on the front pages of the majority of the ads, unlike the iPod. However, iRiver, Sony, and Apple seem to be the ones that appeal the most. I guess the painful kicker is that there are a bunch of options available to you every time you walk through a commercial area, and the majority probably don't care enough to look deeply, like is 4GB flash Nano good or 512MB flash Panasonic thing good...they just pick something up, load whatever crud they like to pump into their skulls, and annoy the fellow passengers on the train. Anybody with any serious interest, I am confident, will eventually get iPods, but the vast majority of people just want to be subjected to aural torture in the form of bad music at high SPLs playing from tiny music players at 128 kbps. This particular type of person rarely wishes to ask for the best, since color or subjective preference for some unknown reason. Just throw any third rate player in and thats good enough.

[BRLawyer]

I am happy to have a simple, bare-bones Siemens A60 with me...just a color screen, SMS, GPRS/WAP capability (never used) and agenda for names and phones...that's what people need, along with good network coverage...

I am tired of listening to this "all-you-can-cram" crap...people don't have time to learn how to use new, complicated gadgets...I couldn't care less about Java games, complex sync operations with computers and the like...and at least 3/4 of the mobile consumers wouldn't either...

Apple, I truly hope you DON'T launch yet another mobile phone in this babel tower of markets...it's a stillborn and stupid idea.

[whooleytoo]

I am tired of listening to this "all-you-can-cram" crap...people don't have time to learn how to use new, complicated gadgets...I couldn't care less about Java games, complex sync operations with computers and the like...and at least 3/4 of the mobile consumers wouldn't either...

Apple, I truly hope you DON'T launch yet another mobile phone in this babel tower of markets...it's a stillborn and stupid idea.

So, just because you don't want the other features, no one else should need them, or ask for them, or ever get a phone with them? Strange..

[skeep5]

for what its worth, i know apple's phone would be better than any other out there. it wouldn't suck.

[BRLawyer]

So, just because you don't want the other features, no one else should need them, or ask for them, or ever get a phone with them? Strange..

No, my point is: everyone else has these features and sells them for nothing...Apple should NOT enter this loss-making market, because it has no room for high margins or great innovation...at most, it will a monstrosity with easier iTunes access and click wheel...I prefer to stick to my iPod, thanks...cell phones should be simple, and Apple IS about simplicity...too bad the mobile market doesn't follow the same orientation.

[whooleytoo]

No, my point is: everyone else has these features and sells them for nothing...Apple should NOT enter this loss-making market, because it has no room for high margins or great innovation...at most, it will a monstrosity with easier iTunes access and click wheel...I prefer to stick to my iPod, thanks...cell phones should be simple, and Apple IS about simplicity...too bad the mobile market doesn't follow the same orientation.

But it sounds to me you're frustrated with (or just not interested in) these devices because of their complexity. One of Apple's key strengths has been providing simple, minimalist interfaces. I think Apple's design skills (both hardware & UI) are ideally suited to improving on current devices.

[lord_flash]

Is it me or does this seem highliy unlikely. It's an old patent; Apple may well have flirted with the idea of making their own mobile but perhaps this is an area best left to those already there. That said, I suppose there's no technical reason why a phone couldn't have a number of keys which clicked down (for texting, calling) but had touch sensitive surfaces so could also form the thumb wheel of the iPod. then the 2, 4, 6 & 8 keys could act as the click-wheel play, skip etc. buttons?

Honestly though, I'm nore sure Apple's miniturisation skills are even remotely close to that of SonyErricson/Nokia etc. It's one thing to shoehorn a load of standard components into a box (MacMini), it's quite another to come up with a new form factor entirely.

[whooleytoo]

Honestly though, I'm nore sure Apple's miniturisation skills are even remotely close to that of SonyErricson/Nokia etc. It's one thing to shoehorn a load of standard components into a box (MacMini), it's quite another to come up with a new form factor entirely.

Well.. the nano is a hell of a lot smaller than my Nokia phone, so there's a lot of room there for 'growth', without the phone becoming unwieldy.

[Sabenth]

without stating the obvious apple has dabbled with phones pdas before i ever came intrested in macs but what amuses me is the fact that the whole concept of an ipod phone amuses me there are phones like the nokia n91 out on the market that have a hard drive a mp3 play ablity theres all the sony phones why come into a market that at present is chock full of phones along these lines already...

Not to mention apple cant really keep much of a computer market let alone a phone market they have managed to get the mp3 market down to 2 things the design of the ipod and the fact it more or less uses itunes as the music player and they allowed moto to use it and it isnt exsactly fantastic is it ...

I am all for phones to have as many gaget based bits and bop as a user can handel i just dont see the point to apple having a mobile ...

[mongoos150]

the picture is the really really old mock up of a sony ericsson (iirc) definately a fake. Just a youtube link to this picture

http://emedia.brookes.ac.uk/ee/04images/iphone.jpg

It wouldn't say "the iPhone" - it would say "Say hello to iPhone."

[jobberwacky]

To really know, you'd have to look at the claims. You'd be amazed how many trivial patents are issued. Most of the talk centers on the discussion (such as the Spotlight patent thread), but the only things protected are the claims.

The rest of the text in the patent can serve to show where a company plans to apply the innovation, though.
This application should never be granted in Europe. There are still (& luckily) no European patents on software according to the regulations. Yes, the application mentions hardware devices and storage media, but the claims are nevertheless exclusively about solving a (rather trivial) programming (=algorithmic) issue.

The problem is that the European Patent Office has been granting patents (also in the area lof life sciences) which are against the regulations. Nevertheless, if the patent is challenged, it could probably not be easily defended in Europe and would presumably have a domino effect on other wrongfully granted EU patents.

[iMeowbot]

This application should never be granted in Europe.
There is some confusion in the original story. This is a recently granted US patent, not an application in Europe. It is in the EU database as a foreign patent.

[4np]

Unless it has... a Hello Kitty logo on it.

ROTFLMAO!!! :D

[4np]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Idzum1SI8U&feature=Recent&page=1&t=t&f=b


fake?

looks like a photoshopped sony ericsson phone... :rolleyes:

[4np]

Please, guys...let's put this rumor to rest...an Apple iPhone is probably the thing Apple is LEAST interested in...the market IS saturated, margins are low as hell...

Besides, Apple has stated that it has little to add in terms of features/offers...

A mobile phone with iTunes and click wheel? Possible...but foolish anyway.

Please file this under "loss-making projects", will ya?

Yes, but just like the iPod, it's a way to obtain market share.... :) A phone, and nowadays an mp3 player, is a must-have for most people and if most people tend to use your mp3 player or your phone they might stick/switch to your computers and other products as well :)

[CarlosG]

Don't know if anyone has put two and two together in this way already, but what about a phone that natively connects through VoIP.
Think iPod. Apple saw that there was a market for a portable MP3 player, et voila.
VoIP is taking off due to cheap/free worldwide phone calls. Why not have a phone that acts like a standard house phone, but connects through VoIP? I know I'd buy one.
Just a thought...

[4np]

Well, when i look at the pattent images below I see a handheld device with a touchscreen of around the same size of the device itself. This makes me think of the rumoured will-it-be-released-or-not video iPod. Ofcourse it will look like a phone on the pattent to confuse competitors; but can this perhaps mean that the (hopefully) soon-to-be-release video iPod might include mobile phone functionality?

And if so, talking about databases, can you then assume that this iPod Video with phone capabilities has wireless (WiFi / VOIP) capabilities as well? ;) Would definately be an extremele cool device :)

PS. it says N502it on top; this is an existing phone model, namely one from NEC (http://images.google.nl/images?q=n502it&svnum=10&hl=nl&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=0&sa=N)

http://guides.macrumors.com/images/0/04/iphonepatent1.png

However, I must say that the icons used on the screen (reception, battery, etc) match those of the NEC N502it (docomo) phone quite closely and the content on the phone looks very much like the obsolete WAP or iMode standard. Also, the NEC image shows iMode as well...

http://koredo.com/images/n502it_3.jpg
-the NEC N502it-

[derfreddy]

The application shows images of a cell phone interface (http://guides.macrumors.com/Gallery_of_iPhone_Patents) demonstrating the interactions. ;)

[whooleytoo]

From Looprumors.com - supposed new feature of Leopard.

"15. Telephony Application. Strong information coming in suggests that Apple is developing a new telephony application into Leopard. Features include on-screen Caller ID, desktop dialing, speakerphone, and voicemail. Users will be able to access numbers from their Address Book, cellphone (iPhone) via Bluetooth, among others. The application is said to be simple, visual, and similar to iChat, if not integrated into iChat"

If true, it would mean Apple has an interest in telephony. Whether or not it extends to an actual handset..

[peharri]

Right now the only reason to believe Apple may have a cellphone up its sleeve is that BRLawyer keeps adamantly denying the possibility of such a thing. ;)

That said, it's notable that anyone trying to deduce what Apple's doing via the watching of patents is going to be mislead. Apple has, in the past, frequently patented things it's never used, and also given a misleading context to them. There are a variety of patents covering technologies where the examples were shown as working on tablet computers or PDAs. Apple has yet to release anything of the sort.

As if to add to the confusion, even if we assume Apple is thinking "cellphones", they're engaged in a (poor, but nonetheless real) collaboration with Motorola, and have worked with other cellphone companies in the past. It's not unlikely they'd develop technologies they don't intend to use in their own products.

I've explained elsewhere why I have grave reservations about Apple doing anything with cellphones. Maybe in a couple of years, but now's not the time, and it would be a remarkable change of model for them if they did go down that road even in 2008.

Apple is underutilizing its Bonjour, Airport, and shared iTunes library technologies at the moment. I can see portable wireless devices in the future that would work with that. I can even see a phone line jack on the back of a future Airport with SIP/Bonjour routing in the box, and Apple selling portable wireless devices that interface with that. (an iPhone, that runs over 802.11); but the cellphone market is complicated, and I can't see Apple entering it at this time, especially if the only real motivation for them to do so is to prevent the iPod being obsoleted by a theoretical - but yet to arrive - mobile phone with the same capabilities.

[balamw]

There is some confusion in the original story. This is a recently granted US patent, not an application in Europe. It is in the EU database as a foreign patent.
Plus, it is a US design patent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent), not a utility patent.

Design patents are very different from utility patents.

B

[sartinsauce]

the picture is the really really old mock up of a sony ericsson (iirc) definately a fake. Just a youtube link to this picture

http://emedia.brookes.ac.uk/ee/04images/iphone.jpg


I'm pretty sure that one was admitted to by a photoshopper.

Either way, it's OLD, look at the font, that's that Garamound (sic?) they used back in the pre-iPod days.

[iMeowbot]

Plus, it is a US design patent, not a utility patent.
The interesting patent (the phone one) is a utility patent.

[BRLawyer]

From Looprumors.com - supposed new feature of Leopard.

"15. Telephony Application. Strong information coming in suggests that Apple is developing a new telephony application into Leopard. Features include on-screen Caller ID, desktop dialing, speakerphone, and voicemail. Users will be able to access numbers from their Address Book, cellphone (iPhone) via Bluetooth, among others. The application is said to be simple, visual, and similar to iChat, if not integrated into iChat"

If true, it would mean Apple has an interest in telephony. Whether or not it extends to an actual handset..

Hehehe, sorry...but LR is the bastard child of MacOSRumors, both of which are extremely unreliable, to say the least...:rolleyes:

[boncellis]

Regarding the click wheel integration with a mobile phone, Nokia (http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=612) came out with something similar as a replacement for the numeric keypad. I don't know how it was received, the reviews I read included words like "interesting" and "different" which is often code for unnecessary, or worse, impractical.

[bigandy]

You're right, adding a 'page 3' would definitely increase traffic - sure all the UK residents will back me up on this one. Although having said that it normally only takes a couple of prime shots of macs with shells off to get the average forum poster's juices flowing!

For more information on third page stories check out The Sun newspaper - welcome to a world beyond apple.



absolutely. i'd "read" it.. ;)

it would, however, have more to do with melons than apples... :D :rolleyes:

[mumbo]

I carry both a phone and an mp3 player around with me all the time already, and I'd rather have both in 1 package, so I'd buy one for sure.
Yeah, I can get something like that already, but they aren't half as nice as something Apple could do, aesthetically or functionally.

[mymacluvsme]

hmmm? An Apple phone? Won't hit big here in Japan anyway...

You got that right, L. Japan is flooded with new cell phone models every other week. Although my friend has the new AU phone W41H by Hitachi. The digital TV reception is awesome.

[mymacluvsme]

How's the iPod doing over there? I know that there were a lot of other portable music players available there before it...

I'm actually just wondering, because I remember hearing the reports of Sony being extremely upset with the iPod/iTunes success over their Walkman[s]/Sony Connect music service in their own country.

Looks like Apple pulled a reverse Pearl Harbor on Sony in the portable music player amd accompanying service market.


Up to about a year and a half to two years ago, you could see a couple white ear buds here and there on the trains, but mostly everyone had MD players. Since then the sightings have increased dramatically. I think it was the iPod Mini that set the iPod revolution in motion here. As (L) said above, Sony's purple thing ain't cutting it with the masses. Japanese are very fashion-conscience, and right now iPod is cool.

I have a friend who is very fashionable, yet she never really cares about technology. She once said to me "I don't see what's the big deal with iPods. My MD player works just fine." Then she got a 5g iPod for Christmas from her boyfriend, and couldn't stop showing it to all her friends: "Look what I got! This is so cool! It can hold ALL my CD's, and it can show pictures and play videos!"

I told her I was happy for her, but I was silently wishing my 3g 15gig iPod would die soon so I can get a new one.

[madmaxmedia]

I'd love to have an apple phone. Although I am a technocrat, I don't like modern phones because of their inteface. I love the old nokias for the simple menus, but the newer models tend to have a much too complicated interface (for a phone).

Apple has always managed to make great and simple intefraces for complex mashines. If there wasn't text messagong and writing notes into a calendar, a clickwheel would be perfect for dialing (like the old phones you see in retirement castles with dialing wheels). With a touchscreen however, possibilities are endless, especially when it has multitouch (you could type with 2 thumbs like most advanced cell phone users do). I'd love a full screen iPod with some kind of front row on it (replace DVD by Phone in the main menu). AutoSync with iCal, iTunes, iCal, iPhoto and AdressBook would make it perfect.

Yes, this is exactly what I was referring to. The touchscreen in combination with advancements such as the scroll wheel that appears where you touch the screen, etc. could enable a lot of functionality in a phone.

It would have all the capabilities of an iPod with fullscreen video, do all the phone stuff, sync info from your computer (many phones already can), and have some PDA-level functionality. Depending on resolution of the screen, it basically does the majority of what people wanted from an Apple tablet.

I'm not saying this is likely or probably. Just considering the possibilities. People that post on this thread just to say "Apple would NEVER do this" are sort of missing the point. A rumor story was posted, we're just speculating on the possibilities.

The same people argued against the Shuffle and Nano for similar reasons. When Apple introduces new products, they are typically totally against people's expectations. Because the products that people are expecting are typically already available.

[madmaxmedia]

I am happy to have a simple, bare-bones Siemens A60 with me...just a color screen, SMS, GPRS/WAP capability (never used) and agenda for names and phones...that's what people need, along with good network coverage...

I am tired of listening to this "all-you-can-cram" crap...people don't have time to learn how to use new, complicated gadgets...I couldn't care less about Java games, complex sync operations with computers and the like...and at least 3/4 of the mobile consumers wouldn't either...

Apple, I truly hope you DON'T launch yet another mobile phone in this babel tower of markets...it's a stillborn and stupid idea.

Did it ever dawn on you that Apple would be the ideal company to develop a smartphone that actually provided a great user experience along with the functionality?

And second, most people gravitate towards more feature-packed phones. People love taking photos, sending to one another, texting, etc...Apple can change the experience as iLife and iTunes did for the desktop. But don't worry, there will always be a bare-boned model for you to buy.

[madmaxmedia]

No, my point is: everyone else has these features and sells them for nothing...Apple should NOT enter this loss-making market, because it has no room for high margins or great innovation...at most, it will a monstrosity with easier iTunes access and click wheel...I prefer to stick to my iPod, thanks...cell phones should be simple, and Apple IS about simplicity...too bad the mobile market doesn't follow the same orientation.

The phones are available for low-cost to consumers, AFTER they sign a contract. But that doesn't mean Motorola is making phones and giving them away for free.

I'm not saying Apple should or shouldn't make phones. But your argument about it being a 'loss-making market' makes no sense.

It is a competitive market, however. Just taking a typical phone and slapping an Apple logo on it would do nothing for anyone, including Apple.

[madmaxmedia]

Regarding the click wheel integration with a mobile phone, Nokia (http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=612) came out with something similar as a replacement for the numeric keypad. I don't know how it was received, the reviews I read included words like "interesting" and "different" which is often code for unnecessary, or worse, impractical.

A scrolling type input method for dialing phone numbers makes no sense. A scroll wheel is great for analog control (like volume control), or for large number of selections (like picking artists and songs.)

If Apple came out with a phone device, there's no way it would use a physical scroll wheel like the iPod.

[hugeipod]

the picture is the really really old mock up of a sony ericsson (iirc) definately a fake.

look closer:

SOMETHING BORROWED
Apple makes great computers. Sony Ericsson makes great mobile phones-phones that have set the standard for stress-free syncing with your Mac. That's why you'll find trusted Sony Ericsson technology driving the new iPhone. This time, Apple didn't reinvent the wheel, it just added(cutoff)

[hugeipod]

also note:

SOMETHING BLUE
Bluetooth wireless communication is now standard across the entire Apple range, built into every desktop, laptop, and even the iPod. This means that while you talk to your family and friends, the iPhone can talk to your computer, as well as automatically sync your contacts, iCal,(cutoff)

[Mac Fly (film)]

are you getting married??

but seriously interesting points!

[ingenious]

Don't know if anyone has put two and two together in this way already, but what about a phone that natively connects through VoIP.
Think iPod. Apple saw that there was a market for a portable MP3 player, et voila.
VoIP is taking off due to cheap/free worldwide phone calls. Why not have a phone that acts like a standard house phone, but connects through VoIP? I know I'd buy one.
Just a thought...

Or a phone that connects to your VoIP service inside your house and a cell network outside? Like some other services, you could even have you home calls redirected to the phone.

[noelister]

I am not sure if this has been posted yet...

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/22/benq-confirms-iphone/

[nubero]

"You know you're a geek when....." *points up* :p

hehehe :p

[madmaxmedia]

Or a phone that connects to your VoIP service inside your house and a cell network outside? Like some other services, you could even have you home calls redirected to the phone.

I don't think it could be Wifi only, as that would seriously reduce its utility. But it would be nice to have cellular and Wifi, I think there are some out there...