new revolution specs "revealed" (IGN) [Archive]

cartoonfox

Mar 30, 2006, 09:09 AM

Hey, a bit surprised no one has mentioned this yet (or have i missed it),
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/699/699118p1.html

apparently, the "Broadway" CPU is slightly lower than the original xbox's.
and the "Hollywood" GPU is a little higher than the original xbox's.
and the RAM is a bit more higher than the original xbox's.

i don't really know what all the numbers mean, I'm just using the comparisons.

i saw PGR3 in dixons playing on a huge HD screen, and it looked (coming from a fanboy's mouth) amazing!
then i saw the same game in a small games shop, playing on a regular tube tv, and it looked really great, but like a xbox game.
so i think what nintendo have been saying about their rev games looking the same as the "competition" on regular 480p screens was correct.
i can't wait to finally see some rev screen shots and movies though! just over a month waiting to go!! : ]

and on a related note (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/699/699037p1.html), Pandemic CEO Josh Resnick had a few things to say about revolution at the GDC,
"Well, the Revolution is a very different platform, and we've actually just seen some things behind closed doors that are just mind-blowing," he said. "Very, very exciting. They're doing something that's very different and unique."
This gets me excited!!

weird thing is, when i checked this article yesterday, it also had a quote from someone at another games company, i can't remember which one, not sure why that one was edited out...

anyway, some positive new stuff all round then... well maybe not so much for the graphic whores : p
but im sure revolution is gonna look great. i mean, xbox has some pretty nice looking games, right? : ]

peace

Dagless

Mar 30, 2006, 09:16 AM

Until we get official word I'll remain sceptical. but about low specs I look at it like this...

The original Xbox had specs way higher (almost double) of the Gamecube.

Visually the Xbox and Gamecube were equal.

So, in theory. doubling the specs of the Cube would give you double the power. Nintendo originally said that the Rev would be twice as powerful as the Cube. So these specs fit in with that theory, until developers blasted the theory, claiming it was more than that. Then Nintendo retracted their original statement, saying it really was faster than 2X.

Fud? fud.

but!

This gets me excited!!
Ditto. "Mind-blowing" aye? just what I'm after :)

MacRumorUser

Mar 30, 2006, 09:29 AM

I'm buying one regardless, but I still have some hopes, wishes & reservations.

Looking at an xbox game at 480p on my HDTV, compare it to a 360 at 720p/1080i there is a huge difference.

Grand for those with only 1 console and no HD tv, but for those that do...:( :confused: :rolleyes: :( ????

I know graphics aren't everything, but you tell me if you could play mario sunshine or metroid prime in HD, would'nt you jump at the chance.. I would.

plinkoman

Mar 30, 2006, 09:32 AM

also keep in mind, the intel chip in the original xbox was from before intel realized that MHz isn't everything. i'd be willing to be the chip inside the revolution will be more powerful then the original xbox.

2nyRiggz

Mar 30, 2006, 09:32 AM

I want the works....i don't care....so if Nintendo can fork up more power then do so...i'll be getting all of the consoles(like a always do)

Damn i need an HDTV.....real soon, getting tired of playing on my monitor.

Bless

kretzy

Mar 30, 2006, 09:42 AM

I couldn't care less about the HD thing. It's nice and all, but as long as the console works well, and the games are good (which I'm sure they will be) then I'm all happy. I can't wait for the Rev, I'm going to to buy one the day they come out.

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 10:01 AM

apparently, the "Broadway" CPU is slightly lower than the original xbox's.
and the "Hollywood" GPU is a little higher than the original xbox's.
and the RAM is a bit more higher than the original xbox's.

i don't really know what all the numbers mean, I'm just using the comparisons. You can't directly compare archtectures - it's like saying a 1Ghz P3 is on par with a 1Ghz G4, which it isn't. I think your second statement is unfortunatly true of a lot of people - they don't know what the numbers actually mean. :(

cartoonfox

Mar 30, 2006, 10:03 AM

plinkoman, i aggree, i'm sure it's more powerfull than it seems "on paper".
we shall have to wait till E3 i guess! : ]

peace

cartoonfox

Mar 30, 2006, 10:05 AM

You can't directly compare archtectures - it's like saying a 1Ghz P3 is on par with a 1Ghz G4, which it isn't. I think your second statement is unfortunatly true of a lot of people - they don't know what the numbers actually mean. :(

sorry for not being educated enough to understand...

i was just using IGN's comparisons, hence the word, "apparently"

peace

takao

Mar 30, 2006, 10:05 AM

oh well personally i was more guessing/hoping for around 1 ghz/300 mhz/128 mb-ram

on the other side the hollywood GPU/IO/DSP combo thing sounds quite interesting (to me)

so it's gonna be xbox * 1.5 graphics wise... that's fine with me

actually one thing what's gonna be interesting with such specs will be the price ... with the huge amount of intigration and nearly system on a chip like design they will be able to offer them perhaps cheaper than i thought

i'm more tending to 150 than 200 now

edit: at least it isn't _that_ long until E3 anymore and those spec/external usb device news were quite surprising
oh and for the comment from the Pandemic CEO.. i've heard from yaws dropping to the floor from other developers as well

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 10:10 AM

The comparisons seem to only be MHz to MHz and that really isn't that helpful.

As has been said (and touted by AMD for years), MHz isn't everything. And it's true, it really isn't. Look at RE4 on GameCube and tell me the machine was 1/2 as powerful as an Xbox! ;) I'd agree that if it is double that of a GCN then it far eclipses the original Xbox... those comparison are just worthless in the article.

That said, hardware-wise its pretty much garaunteed to be inferior to 360/PS3 on a purely hardware/processing scale. Nintendo, though, is a software company at heart and that is what I always look forward to... the games they make for their systems.

Look at 360, I'd say it's safe to assume no game has released that has really taken advantage of all the power it has... same will be true for PS3 at launch. Visually I doubt we'll see much difference between the systems for many years while developers get used to the system.

Until then, rev is all about the interaction, not presentation and that is what excites me about it. I think most people that want a 360/PS3 will also get a Rev, especially if it's cheap and the games are cheaper as well (which has been said many times). So I think it's really a system everyone will want to try, even if they pickup a 360/PS3 as well...

rosalindavenue

Mar 30, 2006, 10:14 AM

Here is a great slashdot thread (http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/30/044254) on the article. Essentially, (as we know from defending powerPC for all those years) it is silly to do a clockspeed comparison. There are a lot of great points in the thread, including some from developers.

Abulia

Mar 30, 2006, 10:40 AM

Visually the Xbox and Gamecube were equal.HAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks for the laugh! :D

Yes, I do own both and no, you're totally wrong. The Xbox graphics are an order of magnitude better than the Cube's. And before you start tossing around the end-all-be-all of graphics on the Cube -- RE4 -- yes, I have that too. It's a sad half-cousin to half the Xbox library in terms of graphical quality.

"Visually...equal." Oh, comedy gold. :)

cartoonfox

Mar 30, 2006, 10:54 AM

rosalindavenue, thank's for posting that. clears a few things up for me : ]

and just to clarify, i have an iMac 2ghz with 512mb RAM. The fact that it is way faster than my friends PC with 3.2ghz and 1.256gb RAM pretty much tells you i know how pointless it is to copare apples to oranges!
i was just quoting IGN's article. Comparing for comparisons sake.

Roll on E3!! : ]

peace

Dagless

Mar 30, 2006, 11:04 AM

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks for the laugh! :D

Yes, I do own both and no, you're totally wrong. The Xbox graphics are an order of magnitude better than the Cube's. And before you start tossing around the end-all-be-all of graphics on the Cube -- RE4 -- yes, I have that too. It's a sad half-cousin to half the Xbox library in terms of graphical quality.

"Visually...equal." Oh, comedy gold. :)

Thats funny :) I have an Xbox and Gamecube too. And from the games I've played on both systems;

GC- Waverace, Metroid Prime series, Resident Evil, Metal Gear Solid, F-Zero GX, Smash Bros Melee

Xbox- Halo, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Serious Sam.

I show them to anyone other than people who KNOW that the Xbox has higher stats and they can't tell the difference. heck! I was playing Resident Evil 4 with my wavebird controller. My mate comes in "aww! is this that new RE game?" "yup! not bad is it!" "can I borrow it? [he only has an Xbox]" "um, you know it's Gamecube only right?" (pause) "...crap!", he sold his Cube about 2 months before.

ps. You haven't seen Twilight Princess, have you? hmm. Some games have better textures, Halo 2 being a prime example. But for the majority they are equal. I'll just spurt out the Twilight Princess thing again for kicks.

Abulia

Mar 30, 2006, 11:11 AM

From Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/30/concrete-revolution-specs/):Just like the Windows Vista release date, the rumored specs for the Nintendo Revolution continue to both change and disappoint us. IGN has posted some new info from sources in the game development industry who supposedly possess official Nintendo documentation and claim to have run benchmarks on the IBM-supplied Broadway CPU and ATI's Hollywood GPU in dev kits that are similar in design to final production units. Originally we had heard that Revolution would sport a 1.8GHz processor, and possibly as high as 2.5GHz -- the new figure, according to IGN's sources, is a rather pokey 729MHz (compared to 485MHz on the GameCube, 733MHz for the original Xbox, three cores running at 3.2GHz on the 360, and the deified Cell processor in the PS3, although direct comparisons are unfair due to the different architectures). Meanwhile, the supposed 600MHz ATI chip is now speced at only 243MHz (with 3MB of texture memory), which is a decent bump over the 'Cube's 162MHz GPU, and in the same league as Xbox 1's 233MHz. Total RAM is also rather disappointing -- only 88MB -- but all of these numbers, even if true, are totally in line with what the company has been saying all along: rather than fighting a next-gen console war, they want to provide a unique gaming experience based around an innovative controller in a wallet-friendly package.Edit: Forgot to bold the important part.

Whotheheck

Mar 30, 2006, 11:19 AM

I can't wait for the rev to come out either. It sucks that it won't play games in 720p but graphics aren't everything *looks at ds* It's just annoying that you have to play all the fun games on systems that are less capable. My psp is awesome but how many fun games are out for that??? :(

BTW, Xbox and GC cames do pretty much look the same. Sure, the xbox has more widescreen games and a couple of HDTV games but that's just cause Nintendo hates widescreen. :(

rosalindavenue

Mar 30, 2006, 11:36 AM

Abulia

Mar 30, 2006, 11:40 AM

There's a great reply to this sort of quality, nuanced argument My tolerance for providing a quality reply is inversely proportional to the hyperbole spewed by the fanboi masses.

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 11:46 AM

Hey, a bit surprised no one has mentioned this yet (or have i missed it),
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/699/699118p1.html

apparently, the "Broadway" CPU is slightly lower than the original xbox's.
and the "Hollywood" GPU is a little higher than the original xbox's.
and the RAM is a bit more higher than the original xbox's.

The CLOCK speed is slightly lower than the XBox. Mac users of all people should know how a PowerPC that is 4 MHz slower than a Celeron (well, technically a Pentium 3 with half the cache, but closer to a Celeron in performance) should compare.

RISC vs CISC.

MHz Myth.

This is faster than the XBox.

IGN are idiots for comparing them that way. They even admit it's not a valid comparison due to different architectures and then compare it anyway.

i don't really know what all the numbers mean, I'm just using the comparisons.

IGN directly admits the comparisons are invalid. It's a 733 MHz Celeron (sorta) vs a 729 MHz G3 (sorta).

Anyway, I wish it was more, I'll say that right off the bat. It should also be noted that IGN's last article said Revolution dev kits were not at their final power. So I hope it improves.

However, even if it doesn't...it's faster than the XBox by a little, and we can assume it has a modern DVD drive running at the fastest speed possible (and no high-resolution textures to load) so it should have the fastest loading times of any console I imagine. And this means it will be cheap to buy.

It's all about the controller, though :) I'd buy the system even for only Metroid Prime 3 and the Virtual Console.

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 11:48 AM

From Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/30/concrete-revolution-specs/):Edit: Forgot to bold the important part.

Engadget's a bunch of idiots; I've been decrying those fake specs given by Han Solo from the G4 boards on various forums for ages, apparently they believed them. This guy (who was even banned from G4 for being an idiot) managed to get his statements published in GameInformer (with of course no mention who gave those numbers) and pretty soon were all over the internet without a source.

Yes, I do own both and no, you're totally wrong. The Xbox graphics are an order of magnitude better than the Cube's. And before you start tossing around the end-all-be-all of graphics on the Cube -- RE4 -- yes, I have that too. It's a sad half-cousin to half the Xbox library in terms of graphical quality.

Orders of magnitude is a gross exagguration.

GameCube is significantly faster than PS2, and XBox is significantly faster than GameCube, but none of them are "orders of magnitude". The XBox can push maybe 20-30% more polygons, and can perform a few extra effects that look nicer. Those extra effects make it look significantly nicer, but not "orders of magnitude". Orders of magnitude are POWERS OF TEN! The XBox 360 is orders of magnitude greater than the GameCube.

cartoonfox

Mar 30, 2006, 11:52 AM

GFLPraxis, please read my previous post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2271568&postcount=14)
i already know that the comparison is pointless. i was just bringing the article to peoples attention and quoting the article.

admittedly i have no idea what "clock speed" means, but i get the gist of things! : ]

sucks to be dumb...

peace

Dagless

Mar 30, 2006, 11:57 AM

My tolerance for providing a quality reply is inversely proportional to the hyperbole spewed by the fanboi masses.

Hmm. funny how I'd place my Xbox and Gamecube as equals in terms of how much I liked them. oh well. if you think it's a fanboy comment then go ahead. but it's been mentioned many times here, on many many forums over the internet, in real life situations that both systems are very similar on the graphics level. ho hum.

takao

Mar 30, 2006, 11:58 AM

update on the impressive jaw dropping demo things i heard: according the friend it might have been a demo of mario 128 (which according to him might have "mushroom" in it) and the demo was about mushroom or something like that as well
sounds kinda funny but he knows the developers and not me (thus i'm only retelling what he told me)

edit:and how we are again discussing the last generation again is beyond me.. after all which was ahead still depends where you live..

offtopic: can somebody tell me why a demo needs to install a "copy protection driver" ? yeah me neither...

rm blazin_gangles_pc_demo
Ubisoft -10 points Respect

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 12:05 PM

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 12:18 PM

the rev is going to kill nintendo.

i never did like the big N, partly because if i play i violent game i want blood and gore, otherwise it gives me a falce sense of reality.

MacRumorUser

Mar 30, 2006, 12:38 PM

Yeah cos your day to day jov in McDonald's asking customers if they want fries with that is so like GTA ;) :p

Before flaming... I'm joking peeps (some readers dont realise the ;) is being sarcastic)..

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 12:48 PM

see the location, that means i'm not a humorless moron.

Mavimao

Mar 30, 2006, 01:07 PM

see the location, that means i'm not a humorless moron.

No but it means you have the possiblity of being a brainless twat, up to his knees in greasy newspapers from the local fish and chip shop while downing his pints and watching the local football match on the tele (which has a PS2 hooked up to it).

Not that you ARE necessarily the person I described, but because you live in London doesn't give your carte blanche to demonstrate a sense of superiority over the yanks.

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 01:07 PM

the rev is going to kill nintendo.

i never did like the big N, partly because if i play i violent game i want blood and gore, otherwise it gives me a falce sense of reality. Why don't you try some of the games on the GameCube, rather than assuming. "OMG, the GC has RE, ED and MK, whereas the PS2 has Spongebob Squarepants and Rugrats! Teh Cube is teh violent 1!"

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Thanks for the laugh! :D

Yes, I do own both and no, you're totally wrong. The Xbox graphics are an order of magnitude better than the Cube's. And before you start tossing around the end-all-be-all of graphics on the Cube -- RE4 -- yes, I have that too. It's a sad half-cousin to half the Xbox library in terms of graphical quality.

"Visually...equal." Oh, comedy gold. :) You'd be surpised. Most GC games look amazing on 480p. As for games that both have, try Soul Calibur - the GC one looks better in most circumstances.

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 01:11 PM

No but it means you have the possiblity of being a brainless twat, up to his knees in greasy newspapers from the local fish and chip shop while downing his pints and watching the local football match on the tele (which has a PS2 hooked up to it).

Not that you ARE necessarily the person I described, but because you live in London doesn't give your carte blanche to demonstrate a sense of superiority over the yanks.

find me a brit that does not get sarcasm or anything like it and i'll give you a prize.

Why don't you try some of the games on the GameCube, rather than assuming. "OMG, the GC has RE, ED and MK, whereas the PS2 has Spongebob Squarepants and Rugrats! Teh Cube is teh violent 1!"

you completely misinterpret my point, which is that allot of nintendo games have kiddie violence, and what i'm saying is that i dont think this mock violence is right, it gives children a false sense of reality, violence has consequences and in nintendo games it most certainly does not.

personally i have a 360, purely because i play on xbox live allot with my freinds, if it were not for that then i would probably have bought a cube for rouge squadren and metroid ect.

i have no problem with violent games as long as the violence is portrayed realistically, when i shoot a zombies head off it explodes with blood, however i find it distasteful when small children beat the crap out of each other repeatedly with SSB.

personally i think nintendo is making a bad move with the rev, they could make a console with a decent size HD, conroe (makes pc ports easy and programmers prefer a familiar architecture) with say a decent ATI GPU and physics card, they could release after the ps3 with the next set of shaders, people will wait for it if it's hyped enough.

nintendo could take back a 40% market share, instead they are pretty much giveing up.

Mavimao

Mar 30, 2006, 01:15 PM

find me a brit that does not get sarcasm or anything like it and i'll give you a prize.

http://www.geocities.com/mavimao/queen_elizabeth.jpg

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 01:15 PM

Haha, now that is a good come back if I've seen one today.

But it all depends on the games being compared; but people tend to compare based on the companies showcase games. So Halo for Xbox, MGS/GT for PS2, and SMS/Zelda on Nintendo. The focus is on the perceived focus I guess, imagine that ;)

Although the focus of Nintendo isn't nearly as one-sided as company like Disney. I mean, there is a company you know isn't publishing a film like Saw; while Nintendo will back the occassional Eternal Darkness, Conker, and Resident Evil.

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 01:16 PM

find me a brit that does not get sarcasm or anything like it and i'll give you a prize.

Having been to well over a dozen countries, I can honestly say, that there are stupid people any place you go, and generalizations are almost always wrong.

EDIT: Mavimao- ROFL!

Mavimao

Mar 30, 2006, 01:17 PM

Wait I take that back, I'm sure the Queen couldn't help but see the irony at the French killing Lady Di and gave a smirk.

Eidorian

Mar 30, 2006, 01:22 PM

The CLOCK speed is slightly lower than the XBox. Mac users of all people should know how a PowerPC that is 4 MHz slower than a Celeron (well, technically a Pentium 3 with half the cache, but closer to a Celeron in performance) should compare.

RISC vs CISC.

MHz Myth.

This is faster than the XBox.

IGN are idiots for comparing them that way. They even admit it's not a valid comparison due to different architectures and then compare it anyway.

IGN directly admits the comparisons are invalid. It's a 733 MHz Celeron (sorta) vs a 729 MHz G3 (sorta).

Anyway, I wish it was more, I'll say that right off the bat. It should also be noted that IGN's last article said Revolution dev kits were not at their final power. So I hope it improves.

However, even if it doesn't...it's faster than the XBox by a little, and we can assume it has a modern DVD drive running at the fastest speed possible (and no high-resolution textures to load) so it should have the fastest loading times of any console I imagine. And this means it will be cheap to buy.

It's all about the controller, though :) I'd buy the system even for only Metroid Prime 3 and the Virtual Console.

Gamecube Central processing unit
Name: "Gekko"
Producer: IBM
Core Base: PowerPC 750CXe, 43-mm² die (modified PowerPC 750 RISC with 50 new instructions)
Manufacturing Process: 0.18 micrometre IBM copper-wire technology
Clock Frequency: 485 MHz
CPU Capacity: 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)
Internal Data Precision:
32-bit Integer
64-bit Floating-point, usable as 2x32-bit SIMD
External Bus:
1.3 gigabyte/second peak bandwidth
32-bit address space
64-bit data bus; 162 MHz clock
Internal Cache:
L1: instruction 32KB, data 32KB (8 way)
L2: 256KB (2 way)

Is that some PowerPC G3?

SamJ

Mar 30, 2006, 01:35 PM

ah man revolution is gnna kick ass. im still debating whethet to get PS3 instead. but then i think of another zelda game after twilight princess that makes use of the controller. the price too.:D

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 01:39 PM

Gamecube Central processing unit
Name: "Gekko"
Producer: IBM
Core Base: PowerPC 750CXe, 43-mm² die (modified PowerPC 750 RISC with 50 new instructions)
Manufacturing Process: 0.18 micrometre IBM copper-wire technology
Clock Frequency: 485 MHz
CPU Capacity: 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1)
Internal Data Precision:
32-bit Integer
64-bit Floating-point, usable as 2x32-bit SIMD
External Bus:
1.3 gigabyte/second peak bandwidth
32-bit address space
64-bit data bus; 162 MHz clock
Internal Cache:
L1: instruction 32KB, data 32KB (8 way)
L2: 256KB (2 way)

Is that some PowerPC G3?

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_processor/powerpc750.html

The PowerPC 750 was the G3 used in PowerMacs and iMacs from around 233-800 MHz (there were several variants as that link shows).

This is a "modified PowerPC 750", so it's a modified G3 with extra instructions added.

In fact it's called a PowerPC 970 CXe- the 970CX was used in the 500 MHz iBook G3 and iMac G3. So I suppose it's similar to that iBook I had a few years back.

The XBox was a Pentium 3 with half the cache removed (modified to be slower and cheaper I guess).

Also, all IGN mentioned was the clock speed. I wonder about bus speed, L1 and L2 cache, etc.

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 01:40 PM

Having been to well over a dozen countries, I can honestly say, that there are stupid people any place you go, and generalizations are almost always wrong.

EDIT: Mavimao- ROFL!

senses of humor are generally region specific, btw i cant see that image.

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 01:42 PM

senses of humor are generally region specific, btw i cant see that image.

Click here.
http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Celebrities/queen_elizabeth.jpg
Thats the URL in his post.

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 02:05 PM

i have no problem with violent games as long as the violence is portrayed realistically, when i shoot a zombies head off it explodes with blood, however i find it distasteful when small children beat the crap out of each other repeatedly with SSB

with...physics card 1) In that case, why not ban Western cartoons (you could class Anime as cartoons, but I mean Cartoon Network minus Adult Swim)
2) Iirc, a PhysX chip was confirmed

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 02:12 PM

i'm not saying to ban them, i'm saying i dislike them, just as i dislike most cartoons. (most violent anime is acctually graphic, in which case i dont mind)

everyone here jumps to conclusions and assumes everyone means the most extreme inturpritation of what they say, jesus, chill.

Mavimao

Mar 30, 2006, 02:12 PM

(Fixed the link to the pic)

And my opinion on all this: just buy what you want. Good Lord. I feel like it's 6th grade all over again arguing whether the Genesis or the Super Nintendo is better.

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 02:17 PM

2) Iirc, a PhysX chip was confirmed

Huh? Confirmed where? You're not talking about the Revolution, are you?

rockthecasbah

Mar 30, 2006, 02:17 PM

people should definitely NOT knock the power of consoles before they see what they can do. It's just wrong to go off the comparison from computers, for the reasons noted above. Just relax and wait to be wowed until E3 :)

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 02:22 PM

Huh? Confirmed where? You're not talking about the Revolution, are you? As said, this is going from memory. Further investigation tells me that this is a rumour, but it's pushed around an awful lot

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 02:28 PM

As said, this is going from memory. Further investigation tells me that this is a rumour, but it's pushed around an awful lot

I have yet to see it on one actual reliable site, only on little blogs. Especially when you consider that PhysX chips are RAM-sucking and cost a couple hundred...I'd love a PhysX chip but I dunno if it's possible with Nintendo's price point.

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 02:36 PM

This could have been confused by the talk of the PhysX Physics Engine working on the PS3. Ageia is selling a PPU *and* a Physics Engine, an alternative to Havok. UT2007 is using this engine and it's availability on the PS3 platform is no surprise. It doesn't mean the PS3 will have a PPU though, simply that the physics engine is cross-platform including PC/PS3 and likely 360.

BoyBach

Mar 30, 2006, 02:54 PM

(Fixed the link to the pic)

And my opinion on all this: just buy what you want. Good Lord. I feel like it's 6th grade all over again arguing whether the Genesis or the Super Nintendo is better.

No contest, we all know the SNES rules :D

Mavimao

Mar 30, 2006, 02:57 PM

No contest, we all know the SNES rules :D

FANBOI! At least the Sega had BLOOD in MORTAL KOMBAT... I want GORE and BLOOD. Nintendo: Quit treating me like I'm 10! GOSH!

Genesis was therefore BETTER.

mrgreen4242

Mar 30, 2006, 02:59 PM

This talk about physics engines made me thing about Nintendos 'surprises' they say they have yet to announce... Just like the G4 is (more or less) a G3 with a multimedia instruction set (AltiVec) tacked on, I wonder if the Broadway CPU could be a G3 w/ some form of AltiVec AND a small/basic PPU instruction set/sub system tacked on. It wouldn't have to be anything amazing, just a special set of instructions that would aid in the calculation of realistic physics, which would free up valuable (especially for the admittedly slower Rev) CPU time for other things.

With realistic physics getting so much attention, now that graphics are starting to plateau just like surround sound did 5 or 6 years ago, it would be a good move. It would also help lessen the separation between the consoles... Since the Rev will be pushing ~1/2 as many pixels as the Xbox and PS3 the actual graphics are going to be at least somewhat comparable (I am sure there will be amazing feats of graphical performance the other two will pull off that the Rev won't, so all the rapid Sony fans can just calm down for a minute), but they will be CLOSE.

And I am also sure that the PS3/Xbox will be able to put their massive CPU power into doing these physics calculations at least as well if not better than the Rev could, even with some special integrated hardware. But, it would lessen the gap. Perhaps eliminate it, when you factor in the unique controller and the lower price point of the system and games.

Probably way out there wrong, but something neat to think about.

BoyBach

Mar 30, 2006, 03:01 PM

All these tid-bits of info about the Revolution are getting me excited about games again for the first time since I was waiting for Zelda to be released on the N64. Virtual console (Mario, Metroid, Mario Kart, Zelda, Sonic, Alex Kidd, Pilotwings... oh boy!), the controller (Edge Magazine had a behind the scenes playtest with it after it was announced, but were banned from revealing too many details, but you could sense the excitement in the print), nice minimalist design, new Mario & Zelda games, a new Pilotwings with motion sensing controller (please!)...

And relax...I'm getting excited again :D

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 03:03 PM

This talk about physics engines made me thing about Nintendos 'surprises' they say they have yet to announce... Just like the G4 is (more or less) a G3 with a multimedia instruction set (AltiVec) tacked on, I wonder if the Broadway CPU could be a G3 w/ some form of AltiVec AND a small/basic PPU instruction set/sub system tacked on. It wouldn't have to be anything amazing, just a special set of instructions that would aid in the calculation of realistic physics, which would free up valuable (especially for the admittedly slower Rev) CPU time for other things.

That'd be awesome.

To be totally honest, I don't care so much about graphics anymore.

Realistic physics interest me far, far more than graphics. Look at Burnout 3. Physics can make the game more fun AND look better. Graphics just makes it look fancier.

Additionally, I think seeing fast paced physics and scenes would actually LOOK better than the same scene without the physics but higher polygon count.

Since the Rev will be pushing ~1/2 as many pixels as the Xbox and PS3 the actual graphics are going to be at least somewhat comparable (I am sure there will be amazing feats of graphical performance the other two will pull off that the Rev won't, so all the rapid Sony fans can just calm down for a minute), but they will be CLOSE.

Actually, HD is around 6 times more pixels, so the Rev will only have to push ~1/6th the pixels.

BoyBach

Mar 30, 2006, 03:03 PM

FANBOI! At least the Sega had BLOOD in MORTAL KOMBAT... I want GORE and BLOOD. Nintendo: Quit treating me like I'm 10! GOSH!

Genesis was therefore BETTER.

NO WAY!!!

The SNES had Street Fighter 2, much better than Mortal Kombat :D

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 03:10 PM

I can't decide whether to vote the Sonic 3 & Knuckles combo game or Yoshi's Island as Best 2D Platformer of all time.

mrgreen4242

Mar 30, 2006, 03:15 PM

That'd be awesome.

To be totally honest, I don't care so much about graphics anymore.

Realistic physics interest me far, far more than graphics. Look at Burnout 3. Physics can make the game more fun AND look better. Graphics just makes it look fancier.

Additionally, I think seeing fast paced physics and scenes would actually LOOK better than the same scene without the physics but higher polygon count.

Actually, HD is around 6 times more pixels, so the Rev will only have to push ~1/6th the pixels.

Well, 480p (a widescreen format) which I am holding out hope that all/most Rev games will support is 720*480 = 345600, where 720p is 1280*720 = 921600, so 480p has 0.375 times fewer pixels than 720p. Or about a 1/3, so we can split the difference and call it good. :)

Anyone smarter than me know if a SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data - like SSE and AltiVec) instruction set exists for physics calculations? I would assume someone had something in the works for this, since it makes sense (in my head at least). If you are calculating, say, the effect of 3 forces on a ton objects (in the case of an explosion, for example, you would have the force of the blast moving the debris in one direction, then the force of air resistance fighting back, and the force of gravity pulling in a third direction) you would be doing exactly what a SIMD set is designed for... Take 1000 pieces of data, perform the same 3 calculations on it, take the new data (where the objects have moved to, and what their new speed is, etc) and do it all over again.

Dunno, makes sense, but maybe I am missing something?

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 03:32 PM

I can't decide whether to vote the Sonic 3 & Knuckles combo game or Yoshi's Island as Best 2D Platformer of all time.

Yoshi's Island by far! :D Love that game...

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 03:37 PM

Anyone smarter than me know if a SIMD (Single Instruction Multiple Data - like SSE and AltiVec) instruction set exists for physics calculations? I would assume someone had something in the works for this, since it makes sense (in my head at least). If you are calculating, say, the effect of 3 forces on a ton objects (in the case of an explosion, for example, you would have the force of the blast moving the debris in one direction, then the force of air resistance fighting back, and the force of gravity pulling in a third direction) you would be doing exactly what a SIMD set is designed for... Take 1000 pieces of data, perform the same 3 calculations on it, take the new data (where the objects have moved to, and what their new speed is, etc) and do it all over again. I can't remember where, but I think I read somewhere that one developer said that SIMDs are crap for physics, (it was summat about the Cell in the PS3, seeing as 6 of the 7 "cores" are SIMDs)

And I was always a Sonic fan :D

Dagless

Mar 30, 2006, 03:43 PM

I can't decide whether to vote the Sonic 3 & Knuckles combo game or Yoshi's Island as Best 2D Platformer of all time.

Yoshis Island. It was/is just pure beautiful on a cart.

Sonic 2 was my fave. I rate that very highly :)

oh. I'll say this small. but all this talk about specs. Since when did the most powerful system "win" the console war? hmm. when? infact just for arguments sake.

The GB fought off countless handhelds. It was monochrome, displayed 4 colours, 4 audio generation channels etc. It was horrible. Yet it beat everything else around it to a pulp. The GBA? The PS1, the PS2? The DS? Seeing a pattern? Graphics affecting the brilliantness of a games machine has been irrelevant and pointless as arguing "but which can look at toast better?". To quote Nimbus. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

oh, and RE the queen thing. She's german! ;)

mrgreen4242

Mar 30, 2006, 03:58 PM

I can't remember where, but I think I read somewhere that one developer said that SIMDs are crap for physics, (it was summat about the Cell in the PS3, seeing as 6 of the 7 "cores" are SIMDs)

And I was always a Sonic fan :D

Hm, that's surprising! I would have thought that physics would be the kind of thing that an SIMD would work well with. But, I have no idea what I am talking about, which is why I asked! Thanks. :)

Although, the Cell cores are general purpuse still, there isn't a core for physics, a core for audio, etc. You can MAKE one core do each of those things, but it's not limited to just that. I wonder what they were refering to was using exisiting (generally designed for multimedia tasks) SIMDs were rubbish for phyics?

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 04:00 PM

dude, sonic 3 & K was legendary.

greatdevourer

Mar 30, 2006, 04:14 PM

Hm, that's surprising! I would have thought that physics would be the kind of thing that an SIMD would work well with. But, I have no idea what I am talking about, which is why I asked! Thanks. :)

Although, the Cell cores are general purpuse still, there isn't a core for physics, a core for audio, etc. You can MAKE one core do each of those things, but it's not limited to just that. I wonder what they were refering to was using exisiting (generally designed for multimedia tasks) SIMDs were rubbish for phyics? Don't follow me completely - I'm going from memory, and memory has never been my strong point ;)

Mord

Mar 30, 2006, 04:16 PM

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 04:22 PM

...like they have a magical tallent for gameplay.

Actually, I think they do, specifically Miyamoto. I've heard many other developers comment about this after working with him, that they learned so much and were amazed at his talent. This has been said from big names too, like Dennis Dyack from Silicon Knights.

They do have a talent for gameplay. They may lack real talent in Graphics, Audio, Presentation, Story, etc but they seem to have Gameplay down in spades. The actual interaction between the game and the player, that's just something they've got.

Just because they do doesn't mean other people don't to. These talents aren't material objects that can only be possessed by one person at a time. :D But that's their ultimate trademark, that is their specialty.

Dagless

Mar 30, 2006, 04:27 PM

look what happened to the DC, i dont think nintendo can avoid that path.

i play games because i enjoy them, this nintendo idea of being the only fun console is BS, like they have a magical tallent for gameplay.

it's called an opinion, i'm not stateing it as fact, deal with it, unless you have a counter argument thats not abusive please dont post.

... Because for the most part; they do. But Nintendo is split into a number of development studios. The only one I really play is EAD. One that Shigsy either started, works for, or has nothing to do with *forget. EAD are geniuses. Wario Ware, Smash Bros (though that was EAD and HAL, right?), Pokemon (EAD and Game Freak?). Games that sell in their droves.

It is all opinion. yes. It's what you want and what you don't. But I don't see anybody else coming up with a controller for a console that can sense in a 3D space, or a handheld as fantastic as the DS?

Look what happened with the Dreamcast. right. Ok. I'm looking at a brilliant console- Soul Calibre, Sonic Adventure, Rival Schools. Alright! That and Nintendo have totally different markets, totally different ideologies, and that the comparison between Xbox 360 and DC has already been made etc... Nah. A company who brought out the DS knows what they are doing. Past performance aside. Just look at the DS. take a long hard look.

Actually, I think they do, specifically Miyamoto. I've heard many other developers comment about this after working with him, that they learned so much and were amazed at his talent. This has been said from big names too, like Dennis Dyack from Silicon Knights.

They do have a talent for gameplay. They may lack real talent in Graphics, Audio, Presentation, Story, etc but they seem to have Gameplay down in spades. The actual interaction between the game and the player, that's just something they've got.

I don't know.

Story- Metroid, Zelda
Graphics- Metroid 2D
Music- All their games
Presentation is a different matter. The only good interface I've seen for a long time was Metroid Prime 2. Nintendo don't bother much with options and menus. Just straight to the game.

They have gameplay to a T. They've been in the game making market longer than most. Suppose with age comes wisdom. After all Nintendo saw the birth of Sony's biggest cash cows (FF and MGS).

And yes. A lot of developers look up to Shigsy. A game artist who just made it huge with Starman and Donkey Kong and that.

Haoshiro

Mar 30, 2006, 04:47 PM

I didn't mean to suggest they have never done good in areas besides gameplay, they have. But all the other aspects are debatable as they aren't evident in every Nintendo title. Gameplay, however, is always there. Other companies best them in those other areas frequently.

NerdBoy

Mar 30, 2006, 07:33 PM

If there is a G3 in the GameCube (sorta) they should at least put a G4 or G5 equivalent in the Rev!!!

2nyRiggz

Mar 30, 2006, 07:39 PM

NO WAY!!!

The SNES had Street Fighter 2, much better than Mortal Kombat :D

Yea, u've been smoking.....MK2/MK3 was the best fighters going around man...SF2 had nothing on em...except maybe SF2-Turbo.

...then again they like 40 SF2s

Bless

GFLPraxis

Mar 30, 2006, 08:39 PM

Actually, I think they do, specifically Miyamoto. I've heard many other developers comment about this after working with him, that they learned so much and were amazed at his talent. This has been said from big names too, like Dennis Dyack from Silicon Knights.

They do have a talent for gameplay. They may lack real talent in Graphics, Audio, Presentation, Story, etc but they seem to have Gameplay down in spades. The actual interaction between the game and the player, that's just something they've got.

Nintendo's problem has been presentation (people dismissing games as 'another sequel' or 'kiddie') more than anything. In fact, their games tend to have top-notch graphics (Zelda 64 had some of the best graphics of it's time, Super Mario Sunshine and Zelda: Wind Waker have stunning graphics, Zelda: Twilight Princess is one of the best of this console generation), as do their systems (GameCube cost UNDER $200 to manufacture at launch- XBox cost around $400 to manufacture at launch- yet GameCube was more than 2/3rds the power of the XBox- and the GameCube costs less than the PS2 and has more power. N64 absolutely blew away the PSOne in every way).

Story is pretty good with Zelda and Metroid Prime, and the orchestrated soundtracks are FANTASTIC.

Nintendo's absolute largest problem is presentation.

Dagless

Mar 31, 2006, 02:48 AM

NO WAY!!!

The SNES had Street Fighter 2, much better than Mortal Kombat :D

Agreed ;)

Street Fighter was japanese. enough said. Mortal Kombat felt very very cheap compared. one had the most gorgeous pixel art fighters ever, one has photographs. SF has bags upon bags of strategy. MK? You can do 2 kinds of block? no rolling, no game altering -isms, less balanced characters, no air blocking - and they're only scratching the surface of the strategy! I think both games hit their respected markets perfectly. SF had the strategy and the button bashing, Japan love it. MK is very american. It was more about making a stand for violence, lazy graphics, less fighters = quicker production.

Or maybe it's me. I do love both games though. SF more because the GBA Street Fighter Alpha 3 is just incredible.

BoyBach

Mar 31, 2006, 03:29 AM

Yea, u've been smoking.....MK2/MK3 was the best fighters going around man...SF2 had nothing on em...except maybe SF2-Turbo.

...then again they like 40 SF2s

Bless

I respect your opinion on this but you're wrong ;)

Streetfighter 2 was a fabulously well balanced masterpiece. In contrast, the Mortal Kombat games were incredibly lame - digitised photography turned into sprites, poor animation and lots of blood do not a good game make!

Fact :p

mrgreen4242

Mar 31, 2006, 07:48 AM

With all the SF crossover games (Xmen, etc) did they ever do a SF vs MK game? That would have actually been kinda cool. :p

Hey, to bring this back on topic, Matt over IGN, who wrote the article that started all of this, edited his original story and posted a blog entry explaining how we are all idiots for yelping about how you can't compare a 733mhz P3/Celeron to a similarly clocked PPC G3/G4-classed machine.

So at least there is some recognition that the Rev will clearly be more powerful than the original Xbox :rolleyes:.

eva01

Mar 31, 2006, 10:12 AM

SF2-Turbo is my favorite fighting game of all time. And i typically hate fighting games.

Haoshiro

Mar 31, 2006, 01:20 PM

mrgreen4242

Mar 31, 2006, 01:39 PM

Links? :)

Hrm, ya that'd been useful, eh? Let's see, the original article that he edited is here: http://revolution.ign.com/articles/699/699118p1.html (you'll only notice it if you read it a few days ago when it was new). And his blog entry about the changes (he doesn't SAY he changed it, just talks about the same subjects) is here: http://blogs.ign.com/Matt-IGN/

:)

jdechko

Mar 31, 2006, 01:46 PM

If there is a G3 in the GameCube (sorta) they should at least put a G4 or G5 equivalent in the Rev!!!

The Rev is rumored to have a 970 derivative processor in it, which is more along the lines of the G5 (which are 970-series processors).

I'll refrain from further speculation until after E3, but at that time, it will probably be more discussion about the then-(hopefully)revealed specs of the system.

GFLPraxis

Mar 31, 2006, 02:25 PM

The Rev is rumored to have a 970 derivative processor in it, which is more along the lines of the G5 (which are 970-series processors).

I'll refrain from further speculation until after E3, but at that time, it will probably be more discussion about the then-(hopefully)revealed specs of the system.

IGN however claims it's an overclocked G3. Did you read the OP?

IGN of course could be wrong.

clykins90

Mar 31, 2006, 02:29 PM

If the revolution doesn't impress me, by the time it comes out Microsoft could and should drop the price of the 360. Then i'll get one :D

mrgreen4242

Mar 31, 2006, 02:53 PM

IGN however claims it's an overclocked G3. Did you read the OP?

IGN of course could be wrong.

Matt (the Nintendo correspondent for IGN) has backtracked a bit on his claims of what the Rev CPU is and isn't. See the links in my post at the very end of page 4. (He's even revised his original story to reflect this).

My guess would be a custom designed off shoot of the G4 series CPUs. It's just an extention of the G3 CPU, really, with added SIMD sets and some other improvements. What wouldn't suprise me is if they completely redesigned the memory subsystem to get some very, very fast access to the RAM, otherwise I can't see any reason why they would have limited it's amount so much. It's not expensive any more, unless it's fast fast fast.

The G5/970 series is a fairly pricey chip, so I'm not sure it would be the "right" choice for Nintendo, if they are aiming at a less expensive device.