I refuse to deal with Microsoft's issues

[Cooknn]

Until I got my Mac, I just accepted substandard software (and hardware) as the way it was. Microsoft Windows would crash, get viruses and spyware, and I would get my work done somehow while dealing with all the other crap at the same time. In addition to the Microsoft software woes, adding hardware to a PC configuration or working with a network required an IT manager to get anything done (that would be me back in the day). Then one day I realized that it didn't have to be that way. I got my first Mac, discovered OS X, and realized that perfection isn't something that is only a dream.

Well, now that my standards are higher I apply them to my play time as well as my work time. Last week, contrary to my intuition I bought an XBox 360. I didn't just get the box, I bought 3 games, an extra controller, a wheel, a couple of books, a router and a one year subscription to XBox Live. My two boys (11 and 15) thought it would be heaven. The box and the brick were well ventilated. Actually I elevated the brick and set the box on a Notebook Cooler (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75005) after reading all the horror stories about how it gets hot and locks up.

Heh. There I was. Dealing with the fear of substandard products again. Well, it didn't take long for this monster to rear its head. My 11 year old was cranking off a hot lap in PGR3 and just like that - the screen LOCKED up. Rebooted, and played for a while more and it happened again. But "it was fun when it worked!" The next day my 15 year old was getting into Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. Awesome graphics - until it LOCKED UP :mad: Like 5 times over the course of a day. My boys were heartbroken. My 11 year old actually shed a tear. On a positive note - Oblivion never locked up. Oh, joy. One out of three games didn't crash my new box :rolleyes:

On the third day I called Microsoft. They told me I could send it to them and they would fix it or replace it. I told them I wanted a new box to be shipped to me and then I'd return the one I bought upon receipt of the replacement. No deal. Couldn't even sway the supervisor. I took everything back. Thankfully, Electronics Boutique was cool about it. They refunded everything I spent. The box, the wheel for PGR3, the games, the extra controller and the books. Best Buy refunded me the money I spent on the router, and Microsoft even refunded the money I spent on XBox Live. What a freaking waste of time.

So now we wait for November. The PS3 should be sweet - with built in Blu-Ray it should kick Hi-Def DVD's into high gear. Oh, yeah the gaming should rock as well :p Anyways, if not for Microsoft Office for Mac, I wouldn't use another one of their products again. I look forward to the day when Apple gets iWork competitive...

[crachoar]

I'm feeling the 'freezing' pain. Going back to 'Game Crazy' as soon as I can to see if I can trade it for another one. Waiting 10 days for Microsoft to send me a new one is lame.

Actually, the fact that my $420 investment is locking up at all is lame...

[illegalprelude]

Ghost Recon 360 Lan party this weekend :D

Sorry to hear your misfortunes with the 360. I also cannot wait for the PS3 but im indeed having fun with it

[cairo]

Couldn't you return it back to the store where you got it and get a refund then buy a new one?

[Symtex]

Until I got my Mac, I just accepted substandard software (and hardware) as the way it was. Microsoft Windows would crash, get viruses and spyware, and I would get my work done somehow while dealing with all the other crap at the same time. In addition to the Microsoft software woes, adding hardware to a PC configuration or working with a network required an IT manager to get anything done (that would be me back in the day). Then one day I realized that it didn't have to be that way. I got my first Mac, discovered OS X, and realized that perfection isn't something that is only a dream.

Well, now that my standards are higher I apply them to my play time as well as my work time. Last week, contrary to my intuition I bought an XBox 360. I didn't just get the box, I bought 3 games, an extra controller, a wheel, a couple of books, a router and a one year subscription to XBox Live. My two boys (11 and 15) thought it would be heaven. The box and the brick were well ventilated. Actually I elevated the brick and set the box on a Notebook Cooler (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75005) after reading all the horror stories about how it gets hot and locks up.

Heh. There I was. Dealing with the fear of substandard products again. Well, it didn't take long for this monster to rear its head. My 11 year old was cranking off a hot lap in PGR3 and just like that - the screen LOCKED up. Rebooted, and played for a while more and it happened again. But "it was fun when it worked!" The next day my 15 year old was getting into Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. Awesome graphics - until it LOCKED UP :mad: Like 5 times over the course of a day. My boys were heartbroken. My 11 year old actually shed a tear. On a positive note - Oblivion never locked up. Oh, joy. One out of three games didn't crash my new box :rolleyes:

On the third day I called Microsoft. They told me I could send it to them and they would fix it or replace it. I told them I wanted a new box to be shipped to me and then I'd return the one I bought upon receipt of the replacement. No deal. Couldn't even sway the supervisor. I took everything back. Thankfully, Electronics Boutique was cool about it. They refunded everything I spent. The box, the wheel for PGR3, the games, the extra controller and the books. Best Buy refunded me the money I spent on the router, and Microsoft even refunded the money I spent on XBox Live. What a freaking waste of time.

So now we wait for November. The PS3 should be sweet - with built in Blu-Ray it should kick Hi-Def DVD's into high gear. Oh, yeah the gaming should rock as well :p Anyways, if not for Microsoft Office for Mac, I wouldn't use another one of their products again. I look forward to the day when Apple gets iWork competitive...

I have a X360 since the november launch and it only froze on me 4 times. Alot of time, the problem are power related which is what next-gen console are more hungry about. I think you took a hasty decision and you might experience the same issue with your PS3.

Im sure that if the X360 at the name Sony or Nintendo on it, you wouldn't have returned it but it seems your tolerance from MS product is thin. I wish you luck on your quest to find the perfect console.

[illegalprelude]

I do have to agree, any next gen system has glitches. Like the 1st time a new wave of Macs hit with something completly new, or the 1st year a new car is introduced or the 1st time a gaming unit is launched. the 1st few months will have their problems. Its obvious you wanted the system or you would not have paid for it. there are thousands of people who are also enjoying their 360 with 0 glitches.

So i think its safe to say you wanted to return the unit before you even bought it because had you actually wanted it, you would have just waited for a fixed one but the last sight of being able to bail on the unit, you did so?

but to each his own and I shall deff. see you online on the PS3 launch date, and by that, I mean PS3 live :D

[roach]

First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...and I would expect PS3 with 3 core to have the same problem...that thing is going to run super hot.

[illegalprelude]

First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...and I would expect PS3 with 3 core to have the same problem...that thing is going to run super hot.

7 cores ;)

[Counterfit]

First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...and I would expect PS3 with 3 core to have the same problem...that thing is going to run super hot.
First run Playstations also had problems with overheating and disk drive failure. I was (and still am) glad Nintendo stayed with cartridges for the N64.

[Cooknn]

Couldn't you return it back to the store where you got it and get a refund then buy a new one?They didn't have any more in stock. Regarding whether or not my decision was hasty, I needed to move quick if I was to expect a full refund on everything I bought. It's not like I'm on a quest for the perfect console either. I just expect to get what I pay for. When I buy a car for example, I shouldn't have to deal with the brakes locking up in the middle of an intersection. Okay, maybe that wasn't fair :cool:

[Timepass]

They didn't have any more in stock. Regarding whether or not my decision was hasty, I needed to move quick if I was to expect a full refund on everything I bought. It's not like I'm on a quest for the perfect console either. I just expect to get what I pay for. When I buy a car for example, I shouldn't have to deal with the brakes locking up in the middle of an intersection. Okay, maybe that wasn't fair :cool:

whne you where cakking M$ for help where you willing to pay for the cross ship. (where you pay for the new one and then they refund yiou the money when they get the broken one) If not I think M$ was correct in not willing to ship you a new one and then getting back your old one because it would make theift really easy to do. Call in complain demand a new one and then never ship in the old one and you have a free 360.

[mkubal]

whne you where cakking M$ for help where you willing to pay for the cross ship. (where you pay for the new one and then they refund yiou the money when they get the broken one) If not I think M$ was correct in not willing to ship you a new one and then getting back your old one because it would make theift really easy to do. Call in complain demand a new one and then never ship in the old one and you have a free 360.

Except for the fact that they could probably track you down. A $400 console is not worth the knock on the door from the cops. Also, I'm pretty sure I've heard of MS shipping some people a console and then letting them ship the old one back. I'm not sure of the circumstances though.

Cooknn-

Sorry to hear about your problem. I had the same issue but got it replaced (refurb) by MS. It's working fine, but I understand you taking yours back. I thought about doing the same thing, but then realized I'd be without a console for a long while.

Hopefully these issues are being fixed on the new consoles. If not, and mine starts acting up again, you'll likely find the video of me beating it to death with a bat on YouTube.

[iGary]

Until I got my Mac, I just accepted substandard software (and hardware) as the way it was. Microsoft Windows would crash, get viruses and spyware, and I would get my work done somehow while dealing with all the other crap at the same time. In addition to the Microsoft software woes, adding hardware to a PC configuration or working with a network required an IT manager to get anything done (that would be me back in the day). Then one day I realized that it didn't have to be that way. I got my first Mac, discovered OS X, and realized that perfection isn't something that is only a dream.

Well, now that my standards are higher I apply them to my play time as well as my work time. Last week, contrary to my intuition I bought an XBox 360. I didn't just get the box, I bought 3 games, an extra controller, a wheel, a couple of books, a router and a one year subscription to XBox Live. My two boys (11 and 15) thought it would be heaven. The box and the brick were well ventilated. Actually I elevated the brick and set the box on a Notebook Cooler (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=75005) after reading all the horror stories about how it gets hot and locks up.

Heh. There I was. Dealing with the fear of substandard products again. Well, it didn't take long for this monster to rear its head. My 11 year old was cranking off a hot lap in PGR3 and just like that - the screen LOCKED up. Rebooted, and played for a while more and it happened again. But "it was fun when it worked!" The next day my 15 year old was getting into Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter. Awesome graphics - until it LOCKED UP :mad: Like 5 times over the course of a day. My boys were heartbroken. My 11 year old actually shed a tear. On a positive note - Oblivion never locked up. Oh, joy. One out of three games didn't crash my new box :rolleyes:

On the third day I called Microsoft. They told me I could send it to them and they would fix it or replace it. I told them I wanted a new box to be shipped to me and then I'd return the one I bought upon receipt of the replacement. No deal. Couldn't even sway the supervisor. I took everything back. Thankfully, Electronics Boutique was cool about it. They refunded everything I spent. The box, the wheel for PGR3, the games, the extra controller and the books. Best Buy refunded me the money I spent on the router, and Microsoft even refunded the money I spent on XBox Live. What a freaking waste of time.

So now we wait for November. The PS3 should be sweet - with built in Blu-Ray it should kick Hi-Def DVD's into high gear. Oh, yeah the gaming should rock as well :p Anyways, if not for Microsoft Office for Mac, I wouldn't use another one of their products again. I look forward to the day when Apple gets iWork competitive...

I don't play games, but I can just see your youngest there in your living room nearly about to break down. :( You should be a writer. :D

[Haoshiro]

Sure but even cars have recalls (http://www.recalls.gov/nhtsa.html), the more complex the product the more chances it could happen.

My original PlayStation had to be turned upside down or else it would overheat and lock up.

When Dreamcast came out some of them would eat discs. PS2s had problems, Xboxes had problems... off hand I can't think of Nintendo systems that had problems except the NES, which had horrible times loading games... locking up, etc.

But you know, I had no problems with my Dreamcast, GameCube, Xbox, or Xbox360 so it's kind of the "luck of the draw" when you are dealing with the first models of a new system.

What's funny, though, is that PS3 will surely have it's issues too... but you by chance just might end up being one of the lucky and get one without problems. Then, at least, you'll feel justified that 'Yep, Sony is just better.' - even if it's just a matter of luck.

Of course, Sony does have another year to iron out problems... here's hoping.

[Abulia]

DUDE, CAN i HAVE YUR STUFF?

:DAwesome graphics - until it LOCKED UP :mad: Like 5 times over the course of a day. My boys were heartbroken. My 11 year old actually shed a tear.So, just to be clear, this is more about your bias with Microsoft than trying to get a working solution for your children who appreciated the system and were having fun? :rolleyes:

I have two kids; I'd find a way to make it work, my pesonal bias be damned.

[Cooknn]

DUDE, CAN i HAVE YUR STUFF?

:DSo, just to be clear, this is more about your bias with Microsoft than trying to get a working solution for your children who appreciated the system and were having fun? :rolleyes:

I have two kids; I'd find a way to make it work, my pesonal bias be damned.It has nothing to do with a personal bias. It's just that Microsoft seems to expect that we accept products that don't work. I would feel the same way if it were Apple. As far as finding a way to make it work... I shouldn't freaking have to. I paid good money and it should work. Actually now that it's done, the boys understand. My oldest has a Mac and he gets it. My youngest was getting into Oblivion and that's why he was bummed. I'll get him the PC version and he'll be happy. When he gets to High School he'll get a Mac too.

[Haoshiro]

Perhaps it's just me, but if I buy a broken product I return it in exchange for one that isn't... obviously not *all* of the products are broken, mine, for example, has always worked fine. ;)

[Abulia]

Perhaps it's just me, but if I buy a broken product I return it in exchange for one that isn't... obviously not *all* of the products are broken, mine, for example, has always worked fine. ;)Exactly.

This struk me as a self-fulfilling prophecy; the OP makes it clear that he doesn't like Microsoft and didn't want the 360 to begin with. One way or another he would have found a way to be unhappy.

I'm all for getting what you pay for and holding companies accountable for defective products. Somehow the OP thinks he's entitled to a different replacement policy than other 360 owners.

All you have to do is read the first and last paragraphs to see where this thread was headed. The middle is just weak justfication, IMO.

[Dagless]

I do have to agree, any next gen system has glitches...

First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...

I knew there was a lot of dodgy PS2s, at least in Europe. Many computer magazines ran adverts and many shops ran laser fix schemes. infact a whole load of adverts popping up were just "PS2 replacement laser and Xbox HDD upgrades!".
I never heard of the Gamecube having problems? none of my local computer shops had an official GC in for repairs or ever heard of one going wrong? There were 2 Panasonic Q's though.
Ditto for the Mega Drive, Master System, NES, N64 or SNES. never heard of any problems what so ever. But my DC had to be fixed up once :(

[Cooknn]

This struk me as a self-fulfilling prophecy; the OP makes it clear that he doesn't like Microsoft and didn't want the 360 to begin with. One way or another he would have found a way to be unhappy.Hey, I'm still here :o

Sorry, Don, but you're wrong - at least about what you said above. I had reservations about purchasing it, yes. But I wanted it to work... Okay, I'm having a weak moment here. Maybe I'm being too hard on Microsoft. Maybe I should point some of the blame back at myself for all the years of lost productivity due to their products. It was just like Deja Vu all over again with the XBox 360 and it flipped my switch. Should I give this thing a second chance? I could even save a few dollars on the second go round by getting it at Costco. I didn't even think to look there before I bought it at EB :cool:

[Haoshiro]

I'm a fairly new Apple user and have enjoyed the switch to OS X. However I'm willing to give credit where it's due and not go completely extreme and say a company only makes bad products. Visual Studio is, in general, quite excellent (and a reason many developers only develop for Windows), and my MS-brand mice have always worked great. My first-generation Xbox only recently started to act up, and it endured heavy use.

Should you give the 360 another chance? I really think that depends on what you want. It has a strong online service, pretty good connectivity (hey, you can even use those wired controllers on the Mac), and a few good games. But if you only want to invest in a single system and one of the forthcoming competitors (Revolution/PS3) is sure to provide you with more software that will want, then I don't see a reason to invest in something you'll just want to replace.

Me, I've already decided against a PS3 (for a variety of reasons), and will get a Revolution. 360 and Revolution will satisify what I want a console for; one of the big reasons to go Xbox for me is multiplayer and lan gaming, that has always been a strong area for the Xbox in my opinion, more so then PlayStation.

So it's all in what you want; but I'd hardly say the 360 is a bad product. Honestly, the Xbox Live Arcade really entertains me for quick "pick up an play" gaming and new retro-style games like Geometry Wars make me look forward to new content in that service, along with the Oblivion and Halos the system will offer.

[GFLPraxis]

Exactly.

This struk me as a self-fulfilling prophecy; the OP makes it clear that he doesn't like Microsoft and didn't want the 360 to begin with. One way or another he would have found a way to be unhappy.

I'm all for getting what you pay for and holding companies accountable for defective products. Somehow the OP thinks he's entitled to a different replacement policy than other 360 owners.

All you have to do is read the first and last paragraphs to see where this thread was headed. The middle is just weak justfication, IMO.

It's not a bias; think about this for a second.

If he was biased he would not have bought the 360.

If you bought twenty products from Sony and they all failed you'd get fed up with it and likely stop buying their products.

If that happened to me with Nintendo (if every product I bought from Nintendo didn't work properly or was defective) I'd probably do the same.

Well, this happened to the OP with Microsoft, and everyone screams "Bias!" when he decides he's sick of it.

[Oryan]

Let me get this straight. You expected MS to take your word and ship you another console BEFORE you shipped them your defective one? I'm sorry, but I don't think any company would send you a $400 console and just take your word that you would send in the defective one when the replacement arrived.

[Counterfit]

off hand I can't think of Nintendo systems that had problems except the NES, which had horrible times loading games... locking up, etc.
We have every Nintendo console (at least the non-portable ones), and bought all of them (except possibly the NES) at launch. The only one that had to go back was the SNES a few years into its life, for something I don't remember.

[flyfish29]

First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...and I would expect PS3 with 3 core to have the same problem...that thing is going to run super hot.


Well, I have a first revision PS2 and never had any crashing problems of the disc loading error others did.

Maybe this is why the PS3 is delayed- we can only hope it isn't just the blu-ray but also them addressing other issues.

I would disagree that all new things are buggy. Sure, many are but there are many others that are not.

Now, I am not one to take one incident and throw something out the window entirely. I have had several great Mac experiences myself and then was shipped a refurb. iMac that was never in fact refurbished or even cleaned upl It was a hassle but I stuck with it and got a new one and love it. Still a Mac customer and probably always will be. However, it sounds like the original poster had a long history of MS issues and this was simply the straw that broke the camels back so it wasn't an isolated experience like one poster described. CERTAINLY IF MORE PEOPLE 'VOTED' WITH THEIR WALLETS companies like MS woudl not be doing so well unless their products AND customer service were improved!

Let me get this straight. You expected MS to take your word and ship you another console BEFORE you shipped them your defective one? I'm sorry, but I don't think any company would send you a $400 console and just take your word that you would send in the defective one when the replacement arrived.

Yes they will, but they woudl require it be charged to a credit card first then refund when the return is received- unless the purchase was made with them originally which would mean they already have your CC info and they woudl do that anyway. One other way they woudl do it is to have you drop your machine off with Fed Ex with tracking number and then ship one out to you immediately. Apple did this with my crappy refub. Of course I could have send back a box of bricks but they had my cc on file to chage if necessary. (that computer was not worth as much as bricks though;))

[Timepass]

Except for the fact that they could probably track you down. A $400 console is not worth the knock on the door from the cops. Also, I'm pretty sure I've heard of MS shipping some people a console and then letting them ship the old one back. I'm not sure of the circumstances though.

Cooknn-

Sorry to hear about your problem. I had the same issue but got it replaced (refurb) by MS. It's working fine, but I understand you taking yours back. I thought about doing the same thing, but then realized I'd be without a console for a long while.

Hopefully these issues are being fixed on the new consoles. If not, and mine starts acting up again, you'll likely find the video of me beating it to death with a bat on YouTube.


Either way if he was not willing to pay for the cross shipping (he would get his money back just pay while it is being ship) I think his complaints and demand holds little water. As you stated it not worth the cops time to go knock on your door. It is common practics to do pay for another product during the time you have both. Ship the other one back and they refund you. Plus for everyone stolen from them they lose money in both the time and effort to go about recovering the money if it is even possible to get it back.

It is very rare that a company is willing to cross ship with out some type of reserve being held.

[Cooknn]

It is very rare that a company is willing to cross ship with out some type of reserve being held.I would have given them my credit card for a cross ship, but they wouldn't even let me get that far. They wanted me to ship it to them and wait for them to either fix or replace it. Since I just bought it, I didn't believe that was an acceptable option.

[takao]

except for windows i didn't have problems with microsoft products either..

for second chance: i would wait perhaps (half) a year and then look if there are still lots of problem i'm pretty sure untill then they will have eliminated most issues (at least i hope so... for them)
on the other side i'm pretty sure that the ps3 will have even more problems in the beginning...

[OutThere]

I was (and still am) glad Nintendo stayed with cartridges for the N64.

That was their downfall and why they're not competitive today. :rolleyes:



Let me get this straight. You expected MS to take your word and ship you another console BEFORE you shipped them your defective one? I'm sorry, but I don't think any company would send you a $400 console and just take your word that you would send in the defective one when the replacement arrived.

Companies that take warranties seriously and are there for their customers and not just the money do that. I had a $600 viewsonic monitor die on me three times, and each time Viewsonic sent me a new one and postage to send the busted one back.

It's good for company image, and great for the customers.

[Abulia]

Sorry, Don, but you're wrong - at least about what you said above. I had reservations about purchasing it, yes. But I wanted it to work... Okay, I'm having a weak moment here. Maybe I'm being too hard on Microsoft. Maybe I should point some of the blame back at myself for all the years of lost productivity due to their products. It was just like Deja Vu all over again with the XBox 360 and it flipped my switch. Should I give this thing a second chance? I could even save a few dollars on the second go round by getting it at Costco. I didn't even think to look there before I bought it at EB :cool:Well, I'm just sharing my observations/opinions. Based on your post it, again, seemed like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm not sure where you drew the tangent that buggy Microsoft software = buggy Xbox products; they're entirely different divisions of the company and completely separate entities. One isn't related to the other.

My first two Mac purchases from Apple when I wanted to "switch" were a DOA iMac G4 and a DOA iMac G5 with the fan problems. It took me the better part of three weeks to resolve the latter. Are all Apple products "junk?" Because you know what, I refuse to deal with Apple's issues.

If you have this same amount of righteous indignation for every company, including Apple, then I think you're just being yourself. The next time your MacBook Pro overheats on you or the screen flickers, remember to demand a free replacement sent ahead of time or else you'll return the unit...or on your next new automobile purchase that has a whistling noise from the driver's window...or on the new HDTV that you buy next year that isn't perfectly calibrated out of the box.

Somehow I suspect you won't give these companies and products the same amount of grief that you reserved for Microsoft and the Xbox 360. For some reason you're holding Microsoft to this higher standard. Exactly what was the point of the thread, if not to score points with the anti-Microsoft crowd here, who are clearly the majority?

Ultimately, as long as you and your children are happy, it doesn't rightly matter what any of us say/think about the situation.

[Abulia]

If you bought twenty products from Sony and they all failed you'd get fed up with it and likely stop buying their products.

Well, this happened to the OP with Microsoft, and everyone screams "Bias!" when he decides he's sick of it.Twenty? I counted one Xbox 360.

One defective product does not make a "trend" or even represent a meaningful statistical sample.

And for the record, not "everyone" is "screaming" 'bias'; I'm the only one that has thus far. Hyperbole much?

[illegalprelude]

Like others are saying, I think its popular to bash Microsoft around these boards.

For example, ive owned so many computers in my lifetime. All of them being PC and my PowerMac G5 being my 1st Mac (that I dearly love :D ). PC comps I recall on top of my head, Micron, HP, 2 Sony Vaio's, 1 Vaio Laptop and 1 PC I built a few months back. More or less, they were all glitch free with random problems of ethernet port dying and Windows itself crashing. Oh well. But my G5 in the last few months, Crashed completly probably 3 times a day (I have consol logs for those who dont believe but im saving em to show to apple cause they have checked my unit out too and they cant find a problem, I still have another year of apple care) but back to story, it crashes all the time suddenly now but you know what, no worries. Im not bashing apple, I love it and I know there is thousands of people out there who have had no problem with theirs.

Gaming units. Ive had the Xbox, the 360, the PS1, the PS2, PSP all on launch date and you know, ive never had 1 single glitch. No HDD problem, no disk error, no heat issue. Are there people who have had problems? I know plenty, including my friend. So while problems do arrise, I know I wanted this systems, hence paying for em so if I did have a problem, I would put up with it or figure out how to solve it like im doing with my Mac right now.

So I do feel like people put MS on this high platform, just so they can watch it fall.

[bitfactory]

For what it's worth - after my ordeal with their tech support line (my system crashes and scratches discs) - I received my 'coffin' to return it in 6 days, not 3 like they said. This didn't sit right with me - so I took the whole damn thing back to Costco and exchanged it (which I should have done to begin with, but wasn't aware of Costco's incredible return policy).

I have to call MS this afternoon and cancel my repair - I hope they ask me why I did it. I really do.

I was sure they'd have my console for more than the 10 business days they were promising - hell, it took a week just to get the empty box. Great customer service (Costco, not MS).

Hopefully the new one will be defect free and I can continue on.

On a side note - I REALLY enjoyed the Battlefield demo on the Marketplace. It's a nice break from GRAW-like realism. Besides, there's nothing more satisfying than placing some C4 on a Jeep, climbing in and speeding towards one of the enemy's flag positions, bailing out of the Jeep and watching it coast into some unsuspecting soldiers... then hitting the detonation button.

Watching the bodies fly gives one a warm, fuzzy feeling.

[joeconvert]

Let me get this straight. You expected MS to take your word and ship you another console BEFORE you shipped them your defective one? I'm sorry, but I don't think any company would send you a $400 console and just take your word that you would send in the defective one when the replacement arrived.

Hard drive manfucaturers and others have done this for years. Most will ask for a CC number up front, but the fact is they do. That is a sign of mature customer support. I don't think the OP's expectation that a company the size of Microsoft could have such is a policy is off base.

[illegalprelude]

Hard drive manfucaturers and others have done this for years. Most will ask for a CC number up front, but the fact is they do. That is a sign of mature customer support. I don't think the OP's expectation that a company the size of Microsoft could have such is a policy is off base.

except the fact that their taking losses on each unit vs. other companies who make a ton of profit on each unit and the fact that the 360 is in short supply

[GFLPraxis]

Twenty? I counted one Xbox 360.

One defective product does not make a "trend" or even represent a meaningful statistical sample.

The OP's post speaks about the problems he's encountered with Microsoft's software over many years of use.


And for the record, not "everyone" is "screaming" 'bias'; I'm the only one that has thus far. Hyperbole much?


Oops :o

[Cooknn]

Exactly what was the point of the thread, if not to score points with the anti-Microsoft crowd here, who are clearly the majority?It was a rant. Take from it what you want or don't take anything at all. As far as my righteous indignation, yeah I hold a special place in my heart for Microsoft. I have to deal with their crap Windows software every day - waisting my time and watching others waist theirs as well. Instead of being productive they spend time trying to work around all the issues. So what did I see with the XBox 360? My 15 year old was trying to get around a spot in GRAW that kept crashing the box. I thought it was quite an interesting coincidence. Yeah, I drew a parallel between the gaming division and the software division. Here was my son spending time rebooting the box and replaying a level instead of just being entertained :rolleyes:

[bitfactory]

Hard drive manfucaturers and others have done this for years. Most will ask for a CC number up front, but the fact is they do. That is a sign of mature customer support. I don't think the OP's expectation that a company the size of Microsoft could have such is a policy is off base.

I agree. I think the swing-time from call to coffin to return is way too long. You should be able to give a cc #, have them ship you out a new/refurb and replace it with your unit in the box prepaid to go back. Their repair process is silly, imo. They're eating up goodwill while Sony is asleep at the wheel.

[Electro Funk]

whne you where cakking M$ for help where you willing to pay for the cross ship. (where you pay for the new one and then they refund yiou the money when they get the broken one) If not I think M$ was correct in not willing to ship you a new one and then getting back your old one because it would make theift really easy to do. Call in complain demand a new one and then never ship in the old one and you have a free 360.

Ummm... This issue could have been solved by M$ taking his CC#...

if they didnt receive his damaged console within 2 weeks of his receipt of the new one... charge the card for the 2nd console...

they should have immediately shipped a new unit and made the customer happy! I could see them pushing you to send it in for repair if it is 6 months old... but 2 days???? Come on M$

[Dagless]

When Dreamcast came out some of them would eat discs. PS2s had problems, Xboxes had problems... off hand I can't think of Nintendo systems that had problems except the NES, which had horrible times loading games... locking up, etc.

Whoa daddio. The NES didn't have load times. hell, sticking the Mario Bros cart in and pressing the power button brought it instantly on. instant boot up.

I only got mine to lock up by ejecting the cart whilst it was on :o thinking maybe I could play as Toad in Mario Bros 1 if i swopped carts at the right time. silly 5 year old.


Oh, on the MS bashing side of things. I've built many computers in my 20 years on earth thus far. I sometimes help out at my local computer shop. repairing, building etc. When they started up they used cheap components and because of that took in a lot of repairs. but as they got popular (who are now Manchester Airport's computer and network guys) they started using the best components they could get. Only Intel CPU's and motherboards, only top brand HDD's, DVD burners etc. The turn around was unbelievable.
Most people don't know their chips or what they're buying. They'd be better off with an Apple machine really who sort of hide their stats and just say "oh it's powerful". Most people say Windows is terrible... Which is funny actually. On this PC board I'm on I can say Windows sucks all I want and everyone will agree. Can't say Mac is good though. Get shot! or the virtual closest.

In the end I believe its the majority of folk out there who buy cheap machines end up in the "MS sucks" group. Now I'll say Windows sucks. I'm sick and tired of that terrible system - so much so that the weekly formats are now being performed by my newly taught father. Until they build their own PC I can't say anything. oh wait, the original Xbox was alright. I had some CD reading problems and many hang ups but it seems to have sorted itself out now.

[Abulia]

It was a rant. Take from it what you want or don't take anything at all. As far as my righteous indignation, yeah I hold a special place in my heart for Microsoft. I have to deal with their crap Windows software every day - waisting my time and watching others waist theirs as well. Instead of being productive they spend time trying to work around all the issues.Well, this pretty much says it all, I think. Interesting that you don't comment on my other points.

Good luck with your PS3, I suppose, and it's unfortunate the 360 didn't work out for you and your sons.

[Cooknn]

Well, this pretty much says it all, I think. Interesting that you don't comment on my other points.

Good luck with your PS3, I suppose, and it's unfortunate the 360 didn't work out for you and your sons.Do you mean this point?My first two Mac purchases from Apple when I wanted to "switch" were a DOA iMac G4 and a DOA iMac G5 with the fan problems. It took me the better part of three weeks to resolve the latter. Are all Apple products "junk?" Because you know what, I refuse to deal with Apple's issues.How do you feel about Circuit City (http://www.donmappin.com/?p=152)? Do the words Never. Again. mean anything to you? Lay off Don. I do appreciate your good luck wish for my future PS3 purchase though :rolleyes:

[Abulia]

It was just like Deja Vu all over again with the XBox 360 and it flipped my switch. Should I give this thing a second chance?

Well, here's what people have had to say thus far, some directly and some implying that you were a bit hasty.

Couldn't you return it back to the store where you got it and get a refund then buy a new one?
I think you took a hasty decision and you might experience the same issue with your PS3.
So i think its safe to say you wanted to return the unit before you even bought it because had you actually wanted it, you would have just waited for a fixed one but the last sight of being able to bail on the unit, you did so?
First run console are always buggy. Early PS2 had also crashing problem...and I would expect PS3 with 3 core to have the same problem...that thing is going to run super hot.
Sorry to hear about your problem. I had the same issue but got it replaced (refurb) by MS.
What's funny, though, is that PS3 will surely have it's issues too... but you by chance just might end up being one of the lucky and get one without problems.
Perhaps it's just me, but if I buy a broken product I return it in exchange for one that isn't... obviously not *all* of the products are broken, mine, for example, has always worked fine.
I would disagree that all new things are buggy. Sure, many are but there are many others that are not.
for second chance: i would wait perhaps (half) a year and then look if there are still lots of problem i'm pretty sure untill then they will have eliminated most issues (at least i hope so... for them)
on the other side i'm pretty sure that the ps3 will have even more problems in the beginning…
For what it's worth - after my ordeal with their tech support line (my system crashes and scratches discs) - I received my 'coffin' to return it in 6 days, not 3 like they said. This didn't sit right with me - so I took the whole damn thing back to Costco and exchanged it (which I should have done to begin with, but wasn't aware of Costco's incredible return policy).I think you were hasty but then, I don't think you really wanted the unit to begin with. Meaning, even if you got a perfect unit, you'd probably still have buyer's remorse.

For me, it's a similiar situation with Nintendo; I don't particularly like their products but my daughter really likes her GameCube. The time that we spent together playing games on it makes my like/dislike of the platform inconsequential compared to the fun of spending time with just her and 'hanging out.'

[Abulia]

Do you mean this point?How do you feel about Circuit City (http://www.donmappin.com/?p=152)? Do the words Never.Again. mean anything to you? Lay off Don. I do appreciate your good luck wish for my future PS3 purchase though :rolleyes:Yup. They had their chances and bungled it. I went the rounds with their customer service as well.

No, seriously, good luck with the PS3.

[cheekyspanky]

Had my dealings with Microsoft today as well....just got a replacement Xbox 360 after mine kept refusing to start.

My issue is that the replacement is a 5 and a half month old refurb, when the one I sent in for repair had been bought pretty recently and used for barely a month. I called MS about it and they say this is their normal policy, yet looking on the Xbox forums most other people seem to be getting brand new units if they have had similar problems.

Grr...

Am I being too demanding expecting either my original console back in a working condition, or a new unit, bearing in mind my console had only been in my possession about 4 weeks - MS have had it almost half as long as I have!

Microsoft - I knew I shouldn't have bothered.

[bitfactory]

Had my dealings with Microsoft today as well....just got a replacement Xbox 360 after mine kept refusing to start.

My issue is that the replacement is a 5 and a half month old refurb, when the one I sent in for repair had been bought pretty recently and used for barely a month. I called MS about it and they say this is their normal policy, yet looking on the Xbox forums most other people seem to be getting brand new units if they have had similar problems.

Grr...

Am I being too demanding expecting either my original console back in a working condition, or a new unit, bearing in mind my console had only been in my possession about 4 weeks - MS have had it almost half as long as I have!

Microsoft - I knew I shouldn't have bothered.

I think practically everyone gets a refurb. The woman I spoke to absolutely insisted they don't send back refurbs - she was an idiot. I think most ppl who received a different console back would like to believe it's new.

[joeconvert]

except the fact that their taking losses on each unit vs. other companies who make a ton of profit on each unit and the fact that the 360 is in short supply

So because they have supply chain issues the customer should suffer for a defective unit?

Microsoft's decision to take a lose ont he console is just that, a decision. Why has now become acceptable to let companies have delusional marketing models and make up the difference in abysmal customer support.

[illegalprelude]

So because they have supply chain issues the customer should suffer for a defective unit?

Microsoft's decision to take a lose ont he console is just that, a decision. Why has now become acceptable to let companies have delusional marketing models and make up the difference in abysmal customer support.

Because customers are sharks and are waiting to cheap the system. Notice how many topics there are around here on, well if I dont send my HDD back, will they still give me one or if I dont send the box back but claim to. MS is just covering their own ass. You paid for the system. You knew you have a 1 year warranty. No where did it say they will send u a brand new one. YOU KNEW THAT. it is 100% your fault.

Now people are gonna claim, I paid for it to work "pout". HENCE warranty. just wait for your knew one. you will be fine.

[MacBoobsPro]

Play Doh!

Its cheaper and less can go wrong!

[Dagless]

I'm never going to jump into anything like this so soon. Like when the first PSP's came out, dead pixel city! First PS2's, serious laser issues. First Xbox's, no CD-R support. early HDTV (in the UK), 720p taking up 99% (or 100% in my case) of shops - yet to see a 1080p in a shop, a lot of early ones without HDMI support. Early MacBook Pro's? no thanks.

If you're an early adopter then you're always going to be the guinea pig. That's why I waited for the Rev D PowerBook. No issues on my end!

And like I said before - Quality components are worth it. Never buy cheap. You'll end up paying more in the end. What do I recommend MS do? Sell a super-premium 360 that will not go wrong. It's guaranteed to work 100%, shipping and handling aside.
but thats just me.

[joeconvert]

Because customers are sharks and are waiting to cheap the system. Notice how many topics there are around here on, well if I dont send my HDD back, will they still give me one or if I dont send the box back but claim to. MS is just covering their own ass. You paid for the system. You knew you have a 1 year warranty. No where did it say they will send u a brand new one. YOU KNEW THAT. it is 100% your fault.

Now people are gonna claim, I paid for it to work "pout". HENCE warranty. just wait for your knew one. you will be fine.

First off, I don't have one. Nor will I. Secondly, the fraud component is handled by the CC# collection. As I and others have stated, this is common practice. I don't see how you got the bit about sending a brand "knew" one in my post.

[Haoshiro]

off hand I can't think of Nintendo systems that had problems except the NES, which had horrible times loading games... locking up, etc.

Whoa daddio. The NES didn't have load times. hell, sticking the Mario Bros cart in and pressing the power button brought it instantly on. instant boot up.

I only got mine to lock up by ejecting the cart whilst it was on :o thinking maybe I could play as Toad in Mario Bros 1 if i swopped carts at the right time. silly 5 year old.

Hey now, I didn't say load times, I said "horrible times loading", the rearrangement changes the phrase completely! :D

My NES, which was new when I received it, often had issues loading games. By that I mean that I would put it in, press the cart down, hit power... and... strange colors on the screen, or it would start to play then garble, etc. It was a flawed design they later revised in the top-loading versions, carried on to the SNES. The mapper connections were not making contact good enough which would make the system fail to read the cart properly. I recall many friends having the same issues. We'd have to blow out the system and cart; sometimes have to shove a second cart in on top of the first to keep the game connected right... it was just a bad design that Nintendo didn't let happen again.


Oh, on the MS bashing side of things. I've built many computers in my 20 years on earth thus far. I sometimes help out at my local computer shop. repairing, building etc. When they started up they used cheap components and because of that took in a lot of repairs. but as they got popular (who are now Manchester Airport's computer and network guys) they started using the best components they could get. Only Intel CPU's and motherboards, only top brand HDD's, DVD burners etc. The turn around was unbelievable.

I've built far too many PCs as well, and I pretty much agree. Their are brands out there that should just be avoided. But after the AMD K6 I never had issues with AMD processors and pretty much used them exclusively. I never had a CPU fail on me (Athlon, Athlon XP, etc). My constant re-installing of Windows and system crashes ended with Windows XP as well. Sure I reinstalled now and then, because I was a PC geek that liked to do that, but that would be after 6-12 months... I really didn't have a huge amount of problems with XP.

[Dagless]

...I've built far too many PCs as well, and I pretty much agree. Their are brands out there that should just be avoided. But after the AMD K6 I never had issues with AMD processors and pretty much used them exclusively. I never had a CPU fail on me (Athlon, Athlon XP, etc). My constant re-installing of Windows and system crashes ended with Windows XP as well. Sure I reinstalled now and then, because I was a PC geek that liked to do that, but that would be after 6-12 months... I really didn't have a huge amount of problems with XP.

Yea I just used Intel because they what I've worked with. and cheap AMD's fall into the same category. My mates Althon something overheated waaay too often. In the end he stuck in liquid cooling just to shut the damn thing up!

take my PC. Intel CPU, Intel motherboard, ATi graphics, Kingston Ram (or something) generic HDD. What broke first? the HDD.
I actually want Vista to be very good. Perhaps then I'd stop being called down to reinstall XP in MS DOS. copying folders and that.

[Haoshiro]

And I refuse to deal with Apple's issues (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191310) ... just kidding. :D

[illegalprelude]

And I refuse to deal with Apple's issues (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191310) ... just kidding. :D


psh, amen to that. I got a 3 year apple care and they are still refusing to fix my unit :rolleyes: fudgers will get theirs once I got my case built up though.