Apple Releases Boot Camp Beta

[C00rDiNaT0r]

I don't know if anyone else has asked this before, but why did Apple (and I guess everyone else) only wanna do it for XP?

[yg17]

I don't know if anyone else has asked this before, but why did Apple (and I guess everyone else) only wanna do it for XP?
Most common OS. The average joe uses it.

Someone who wants to run Linux on their Intel Mac was probably geekie enough to figure it out a long time ago (weren't there EFI compatible distros out a few months back). And, no one was saying "Well I would switch to Mac if only Linux ran on it" because there have been PPC distros out for ages.

And Vista isn't out, so as of right now, Apple could care less about it. But since this adds BIOS support to the Intel Macs, any x86 OS should work.

[DakotaGuy]

Does this mean the End of the Clone Wars?

Yes, but it might finally mean an end to the OS wars if there still is one.

All I know is that I now need to "find" space on my hard drive to fit XP. Goodbye jampacks, office for Mac, and a few other things. Hello Civ IV, Office 2003, Streets and Trips, and my Lexmark training material.

Hmmm...if enough people think like that...it just might mean the end to Mac development on those software titles or the hope that a Mac version will ever be developed. If people buy the Windows version instead of the MacOSX version, why should they bother making them? I guess Apple finally realized they lost the OS war years ago and now is finally conforming to what is considered the "world standard."

[mazola]

Apple is re-releasing 'Arcade Boot Camp'?

It's about damn time!

[daysleeper]

I feel like a rift has opened up between us with powerPCs and those with intel chips.

I feel like saying, "wait up guys...what's going on? what's it look like? you can do what? wait up...wait..."

[bretm]

Yes, but it might finally mean an end to the OS wars if there still is one.



Hmmm...if enough people think like that...it just might mean the end to Mac development on those software titles or the hope that a Mac version will ever be developed. If people buy the Windows version instead of the MacOSX version, why should they bother making them? I guess Apple finally realized they lost the OS war years ago and now is finally conforming to what is considered the "world standard."

Funny, I see it more as another small step to putting OSX on ANY intel baesd machine. OSX after all is now running natively on Intel machines and has been for 5+years. Apple Company version II is now completely entrenched and ready to go if they lose the Hardware war. Not the OS war. Apple has become a software company that would love to continue to be a hardware company. But as I've mentioned before, wouldn't they love to sell FCP, Aperture, Motion, iDVD, iLife, DVD Studio Pro, Pages, Keynote, etc. to the whole world? Wouldn't they love to increase their market share 95% for their apps? They can make their apps run on Windows, which I'll be they all have a windows version being concurrently developed secretely, or they can open up the OS to ALL intel boxes. If they can't get enough hardware switchers from these apps, then they'll switch the apps or the OS to work on the hardware.

Apple holds all the cards. They have every possible option available to them. Open up the OS, open up the software, open up the hardware, you name it. And they've put themselves in this position without hardly a soul questioning it until they announced the intel switch.

This current move is a tease to see how much more hardware they can sell if it also runs windows. If after a year or so it doesn't really increase their user base much, then they make the next move. My guess is it would be selling their apps for either windows OR OSX. Hook some folks on the apps and then you could remove support for Windows, and release OSX for all intel boxes. Now your software users gobble up a copy of OSX so they can continue to run DVDSP, FCP, Pages etc.

[DakotaGuy]

Funny, I see it more as another small step to putting OSX on ANY intel baesd machine.

Now that is a GENIUS idea! If this means that someday Apple would open OSX to other PC's...it would really take it places!

[C00rDiNaT0r]

I feel like a rift has opened up between us with powerPCs and those with intel chips.

I feel like saying, "wait up guys...what's going on? what's it look like? you can do what? wait up...wait..."

I guess that's just... sucks for us... :(
I bought a 17in iMac G5 (w/ iSight) right before Christmas thinking it wouldn't be the 1st thing they upgrade in Jan '06...

[Multimedia]

anybody have any idea which versions of XP (2002, 2003, etc) include the Service Pack 2. I've got version 2002 and it doesn't include it...and I'm desperately looking for a spare disc somewhere. Thanks.

mrI've got all the instructions and 3 tutorial links on how to make your 2002 XP into SP2 at page 23 Post #567. It's really pretty easy.

[Sirin]

You want to know my thoughts? ;)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8241/bluescreenofdeathinmac6ka.jpg

[Multimedia]

Its actually really easy to install Media Center Edition on an Intel iMac... the reason it isn't supported is solely because you would have to eject the first disk to put the second one in (the disk with the MCE files on it)... and the eject button isn't supported at that point in the Windows installation.

That said, I successfully installed Media Center during my first attempt this afternoon. All you need is a secondary external CD-Rom drive. Here are the steps:

1. Plug in your External CD-Rom drive
2. Put Disk 1 into the computer's INTERNAL CD-Rom drive
3. Start installing Windows MCE as if it were a normal XP install
4. When the installer asks for CD 2, insert it into the EXTERNAL CD-Rom drive
5. Click the button all the way on the right of the dialog asking for CD 2 (it says Browse or Find or something)
6. Change the path from D:\cmpnents\mediactr\i386 to E:\cmpnents\mediactr\i386
7. Let the install finish-- and you will boot to Media Center!
8. Install the Macintosh Drivers CD.

Works flawlessly.OK, I give up. How Do You Connect The External CD-ROM Drive?? FireWire is the only way I know how to do that so are you are saying that the FW port works during the install? Or must it be USB 2? :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

[Billy Boo Bob]

The MBU is a profit center. Yes it was formed as a result of the anti-trust case back in the 90's but that is no longer the case.

I thought the MBU was formed after MS Word 6-point-Oh-My-God. It sucked so bad that most people went back to 5.2 (5.x whatever it was). After the 6.0 mess they started advertising heavily in Mac rags looking for Mac developers. Wasn't that when the really nice Mac software started showing up from MS, and the start of MBU?

[skymaXimus]

I don't like this at all. No not one bit.

It's just Apple taking one more step towards Dvorak's world in which Apple dumps OSX and move completely to Windows.

I just don't like this.

I always say "I wish everyone used a Mac", but deep down inside, I love Apple having a low market share. I love the tight nit community of Mac users. I love that the people who use Macs are the people who "get it". I can glance at someone using a PowerBook and know he knows whats up.

It used to be that way with the iPod. Not anymore.

I love Apple because of its exclusivity and it's the best you can buy. I feel that I have a leg up on my competition because I use a Mac, but what about when everyone is using one? What then?

I think I'm going to probably be sick to my stomach the 1st time I walk by someone using a MacBook Pro, glance at his screen, only to see him using XP!

APPLE WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO US?

[dejo]

Hello, there,

This is Daniel Terdiman writing. I'm a reporter with CNET News.com.

I'm writing at 10:45 am pacific time Wednesday because I'm doing a story on deadline this morning about the Mac user community's response to Boot Camp.

What I'm looking for at this point is Mac users who are opposed to this news (as I already have a plethora of people who think it's good news). So, if there is some reason that you think this is bad for Apple, for Mac users, for Mac software developers, etc., please contact me at the email address ASAP.

Thanks so much. I look forward to hearing from you.

Daniel Terdiman
Staff Writer
CNET News.com
daniel.terdiman@cnet.com

Oh, if you're curious, here is the result:

Mac fans sign up for Boot Camp (http://news.com.com/2100-1016-6058132.html?tag=tb)

[aafuss1]

I bet Apple will try to trademark Boot Camp.

Also, has anyone been able to activate XP via Boot Camp OK?

Now using Boot Camp, you could run software such MS Flight Simulator, The Movies , Half Life 2 or GTA:SA on a iMac, Mac mini or MacBook Pro

[1dterbeest]

If Apple really wants to make people see the
benefit of OS X versus XP on their machine,
they are going to have to market the hell out
of iLife, Photobooth, and FrontRow to the
switchers out there. A new switcher might be
tempted to use XP more and more since they
are used to it. Apple has to make their own
apps and OS more tempting with some marketing.

In other words, if an Apple Marketing Director
is reading this, HIRE ME! I have some great ideas! :rolleyes:

[cerev]

Does anyone know of a workaround that will allow us to use of an upgrade version of WinXP?

[bketchum]

My Take on this whole thing? The name "Boot Camp" sucks.

If I tell a Windows user that they can "use Windows on your new Mac via a feature called Boot Camp," they will look at me very funny. It just doesn't fit like "Spotlight", "Dashboard", or "Front Row".


Imagine a serious TV reporter, with cocked eye and well-trained voice, Walter Cronkite-influenced, of course, standing outside Apple, hair blowing in a brisk April wind.

"I'm standing in front of Apple Computer's headquarters in Cupertino, CA reporting on the release of Apple's new Boot Camp software. The new program allows Windows XP to be installed on Macs; however, it's the name of the software that has many Mac fans puzzled."

"Some suggest the name Boot Camp is Apple humor for providing Windows on Macs (a despised idea for many Mac faithful); or perhaps it's Apple nervous humor, suggests one Mac pundit.

"Might Apple be ringing its hands wondering what they've done?"

"Could Apple have two internal camps, divided by why or why not Apple should do this? There are certainly two heavily-fortified camps on the Mac forums."

"The two arguments, seemingly legitimate, are yay or nay for allowing Windows to be installed on Macs: The yay say Apple will grow its market share. The nay say Apple will lose natively-written third-party software, further marginalizing Apple's Mac OS X operating system."

"Time will tell as this potential watershed moment in computer history may be quick and vastly evolving. Perhaps this is why Apple chose to release this software as a public beta."

"This is Scott Cronkenberg for News Six."

[Billy Boo Bob]

Oh, if you're curious, here is the result:

Mac fans sign up for Boot Camp (http://news.com.com/2100-1016-6058132.html?tag=tb)

:) Man. Talk about Win Fanboy posts in the comments over there... "OS X is dead"... "Why Bother?"... I read those posts and now I'm conviced... Guess I'll just forget about getting a Mac and go with a Dell. :rolleyes:

[ThatWasAwkward]

It is done. I now have WinXP alongside OS X on my iMac.

Weird.

[ssteve]

It is done. I now have WinXP alongside OS X on my iMac.

Weird.

I agree with you. I just finished the XP installation about an hour ago. I could not believe how easy it was, but of course it was Apple that created the procedure. I should not be suprised.

I was thinking about buying something like a Toshiba laptop so I can run all my games and SQL server and .net, I now am more than happy to scrap that idea. THANK YOU Apple!!!

[ssteve]

I don't know if anyone has already said this, but I just mentioned how cool this whole installation procedure is. Remember this...this is only the Beta version, it will just keep getting better if that is possible.

[Mr Defiant]

I predict MacBook Pros will suddenly become harder to find...

This will definitely boost hardware sales. The real question is will it convince enough people on the fence to try OS/X (hey. its free, and you can still install your copy of windows) and switch for good...

:cool:

I've just ordered mine as I thought just the same!

[dejo]

I'm curious. Has anybody heard anything from "narf" and "blanka" since they won the contest? It wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that Apple had brought them onboard to help with Boot Camp. Not that I have any proof of that...

[iMeowbot]

I'm curious. Has anybody heard anything from "narf" and "blanka" since they won the contest? It wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that Apple had brought them onboard to help with Boot Camp. Not that I have any proof of that...
Apple wouldn't have needed their services. They already had a complete CSM from Intel, and there are hardly any Mac-specific details they will have needed to address. What they have done now is restore the pieces they left out earlier.

The part that will have required a little more serious effort for Apple is the device driver support. They had to provide tables for the Intel chipset that enable the correct sensors and ranges, tweak the ATI drivers to recognize their lobotomized firmware, turn on the correct audio defaults, that sort of thing. The onmac.net folks hadn't really come up with great solutions for all those pieces.

[^squirrel^]

If possbile could anyone with eithe an iMac or Macbook pro run a benchmark on these systems to see what kind of score we'd be looking at?

3dMark 2001 is free to download.

[thefunkymunky]

Well. I managed last night to get Boot Camp to partition my HD but it has also corrupted by OSX partition so now I cant boot OSX. Disk utility can't repair the drive nor can running 'fsck' in single-user mode. I am also having trouble installing XP, can't read my CD properly for some reason.

So right now. I am without my MBP with no OSX and no XP. I'm in work typing this. :mad: :(

[strange days]

Well. I managed last night to get Boot Camp to partition my HD but it has also corrupted by OSX partition so now I cant boot OSX. Disk utility can't repair the drive nor can running 'fsck' in single-user mode. I am also having trouble installing XP, can't read my CD properly for some reason.

So right now. I am without my MBP with no OSX and no XP. I'm in work typing this. :mad: :(


...ouch, my hat's off to you and all early adopters out there; hold steady through this tempest and you'll show us all the light of the new day when all is running fine.

[jope76]

Installed Windows without any problems last night. My OSX partition is intact and OSX is running great as always.

The instalaltion was really easy, Apple did a great job with Boot Camp and the driver cd.

Windows is also running great, fast and with all hardware working. Ok, not all hardware, but everything that Apple said would work works. Ran Doom 3 for a few minutes and it ran great at 1024x768 with high detail.
This will be good for games, and for stuff related to my daytime job, since I work with Windows all day.

(iMac Core Duo 17", 1.5Gb RAM)

[PCMacUser]

This is one of Apple's greatest moments.

[RedTomato]

My thoughts on why it will work:

1. For most people XP machines slowly die as they get filled up with spamware, weatherbugs, malware, various installations etc. (ok, us geeks clean them out, but most people don't know how to do that)

2. So it's time to buy a new computer.

3. Hey, lets try out that Mac that they've heard so much about! I can run both OSX and XP / VISTA

4. W00T XP is so fast compared to my old computer (cos it's a fresh install on the mac). I'm glad I brought this machine.

5. Mmm OSX is a bit tricky. Let's keep on using XP for a while.

6. XP gets slower and slower due to filling up with junk etc.

7. Let's have a look at the OSX stuff.

8. Mmm I can read all my XP files. And it seems a lot faster. Let's try doing a few things (iMovie etc) and creating a few files.

9. Back to XP. Grrr, it's really slow. And it can't read my OSX files.

10. Spend more and more time in OSX

Q.E.D.

:)

.. RedTomato..

[Thomas Veil]

I bet Apple will try to trademark Boot Camp. Hmm...maybe then they can sue the U.S. Marine Corps for copyright infringement. ;)

[PCMacUser]

Hmm...maybe then they can sue the U.S. Marine Corps for copyright infringement. ;)
And Microsoft... that's the name of their training camps for MCSEs...

[Thomas Veil]

3. Hey, lets try out that Mac that they've heard so much about! I can run both OSX and XP / VISTAI think this is where your plan will die. Whether it makes sense or not, people feel "safe" (!) with what they know, which is Windows.

I know too many people personally who think of the Mac OS as something that's only for a small clique of computer geeks, similar to people who still love and coddle their Beta VCRs. (Yeah, it's an idiotic notion, but it seems to be common.)

[dalvin200]

2 questions:

1) i only have winxp home disc which has no service packs on the install - can you use this and then download sp2 from ms?

2) how do you un-install boot camp? will it affect ox s?

thanks

[chickenfriednic]

Might already have been asked but....

can you install the xp partition on an external disk??

[dogsbody]

I haven't checked all the way through the thread, but I assume someone mentioned that there was a Mac a while back that had a Windows card in it so you could flick between Win and Mac. That was on System 7 and Win 95 if I remember correctly. You could even copy and paste between the two.

I would've loved to have one at the time, but I was just a kid without so much as a farthing to my name...

Can't wait to get an MBP with this on thought - I'll finally be able to demo my Windows consultancy work using my Mac laptop! Yahay! :D

[Stephanos]

The conclusion you're drawing from your bad analogy makes no sense. Windows, in this regard, is the gas your car runs on. OS X is diesel, available at the minority of pumps across America.

Most people buy gas powered cars because gas is everywhere and they have more options in gas vehicles. If your car ran on both gas AND diesel, you'd probably end up filling up mostly on gas because it's more easily available.

So this real-world analogy also helps to show that Windows on Mac will eventually come at the expense of OS X support unless Apple has something up its sleeve.

Your analogy is very apt, but there's an alternative scenario:

More people buy these dual-gas cars since they can use cheap diesel and revert to gas when they can't find diesel or need the extra oomph, so the market for diesel increases, so gas stations that offer diesel have more custom, competition leads to more gas stations offering diesel, and hence diesel becomes a credible alternative and more widely available.

It could go either way. It's a gamble. I'm unconvinced that anyone can be sure of which way things will go. Steve is betting on people wanting diesel and this is a way to let them use it without the headaches of giving up gasoline. I'm not as much of a fanboy as some people who post here, but this is one reason I love Apple: it has confidence that its products are the best. I was getting my MacBook Pro next week, and now I've solved the three problems I'd have had with it (and currently have with my Powerbook):

- I couldn't try this wonderful EVE Online thing all my WoW friends are raving about
- I couldn't run my Sony Ericsson K750i's firmware update utility
- I couldn't use my bank's online payment system because it used proprietary IE-only PKI stuff

Same for my architect friend who values design above all else and has been drooling over Macs for years, but uses AutoCAD at work and had to stick to PCs.

Short term, this will lead to more Mac sales, no question. This means more people running OS X. Long term, this can either mean (a) more Mac OS X apps because the market is bigger or (b) fewer Mac OS X apps as app developers use the "just boot windows" excuse.

I'm hoping for (a), and there's a lot of reasons why, most of which have already been mentioned. Remember that times are a-changing, cross-platform development is a lot easier than it was a few years ago (porting existing obsolete codebases is an issue, yes, hence the Adobe/MS situation, but developing a new app cross platform right now is a hell of a lot easier than it was five or ten years ago), and cross-platform application platforms like Java or AJAX are on the rise.

As I said, an excellent analogy on so many levels.

[WeeManDan]

Just a quick thought, but do you think Apple will actively promote this when Leopard is released? I mean we are all thinking people will now buy Macs 'cos they can run Windows, but if no one outside the Apple fan base knows this then how will this change anything?

[zenvision]

ok my first post here on macrumors so go easy...

I see the MBP runs games like a charm through boot camp, but has anyone tested the audio capabilities? The main reason I'd want to try boot camp would be to run my PC audio programs like Cubase sx3, Acid Pro, Wavelab etc. and use Mac OS X for everything else (im not really a gamer). Anyone tried those (or other audio programs) yet?

This would sway my 'maybe I'll get a MBP' decision to 'definately!'

[javierbds]

I guess this is the straw that broke Thevanian's back :(

About people knowing it, is very simple :
Imagine your shop ...


Put 2 iMacs in the shop one with XP booted and the other with OS X.
Explain that if you want XP you have to go to ... to pay for it but that your Mac goes with Tiger (Leopard) and if you already have an original XPSP2 you can install it.


IT IS VERY SIMPLE ...

[BenRoethig]

people don't need windows... i don't care what you say... you don't need it. you're putting an inferior os with a superior one, and making ignorance rise. people go in the store all the time asking questions that boggle my mind. you can do whatever you want on a mac, there are solutions out there, you don't need windows to solve them.... this makes me furious.... damnit apple, why'd you hafta ruin my 30th anniversary party

It doesn't matter how superior an OS is if it doesn't have software able to do what you need it to.

[macpastor]

This is one of Apple's greatest moments.

I think you are right, although die-hard Mac fans think not. This is big news for Apple, and I believe will help them garner more users short-term and long-term.

[BenRoethig]

I think you are right, although die-hard Mac fans think not. This is big news for Apple, and I believe will help them garner more users short-term and long-term.

I wouldn't worry about them. They'll buy Apple no matter what anyway. Where else would they go?

[nostrum]

Apple are a hardware company, and this will help boost hardware sales. I was thinking of building a new PC to replace my current one, but now I can just go out and buy an iMac and load my copy of XP onto that. So if that was the aim of Apple its worked incredibly well. It does make me think that the future of Mac OS is now in doubt. Why bother investing millions in the operating system when you can use one thats got access to tens of thousands of pieces of software already and an installed user base of hundreds of millions. What would they lose by abandoning OS X?

Its looking more and more likely that they'll switch to Windows and market themselves as the BMW or Mercedes of PC manufacturers.

Then they'll probably open source Mac OS so it'll be like a superior version of Linux.

[Panu]

Bootcamp is a great idea for Apple.

Apple's latest tools allow developers to compile Universal binaries and Windows code.

It does not affect virtualization products, because it solves a different problem. Bootcamp allows you to run either one OS or the other. Virtualization products allow you to run a Windows application in OS X.

It will increase Apple's sales

It allows people to compare XP with OS X and eventually migrate to OS X.

In business, the creative types who want Macs can get them, because Apple has removed management's only objection

The MacBook Pro might become an executive status symbol

I see nothing but good news. Now all they need to do to put the cherry on top is come out with a MacBook Pro docking station.

----

PS: the latest MacBook Pros with a Rev D motherboard no longer run excessively hot. The Apple Store swapped mine out without me even asking. (I went in for a memory upgrade.) The current ones generate about the same amount of heat as any other laptop. (If your serial number begins with W8611, you have Rev D)

[JayMak]

2 questions:

1) i only have winxp home disc which has no service packs on the install - can you use this and then download sp2 from ms?

2) how do you un-install boot camp? will it affect ox s?

thanks

1) XP Home must be SP2 to install, you might be able to slipstream and create a SP2 disc to use.

2) Uninstall is just 1 click, its done that fast as well, does not effect OSX.

[Senbei]

I don't wanna repeat myself...but my assumptions are: (1) IF Apple officially (as with BootCamp) makes it easy for people to install Winblows; AND (2) we consider software that is NOT YET ported to the Mac = RESULT: no prospective software developers (like for Autocad and games) will make an effort to creat native OS X versions.

I am still waiting for reasonable counter-arguments to my theory here...

I like you. You make me laugh. - memorable quote from the movie Gung Ho. That last line is one of the best jokes I've read on this forum in awhile. If your sarcasm detector is disabled, turn it on now. It's easy to excuse the numerous drive-by "OS X development is d00med" postings but you seemed to have missed a number of rational posts in many of the previous Windows on Mac threads when you posted the exact same theory. Worst of all, you had to go on in one of those other threads about why all of these "newbies" have suddenly appeared and therefore must be Microsoft shills to which I say, some of us may be new to the forums but are longtime computer users of many different platforms and therefore, aren't as narrowminded about the pros/cons of each platform compared to some of those users who are blinded by hardware and software zealotry, who act no different than the lemmings in the original Apple commercial marching to the old Guy Kawasaki Macevangelist beat, and look at their computer as some icon of worship as opposed to being the multipurpose tool that it is. I fully expect this reply to be glossed over just because it is too long but what the hell, since you can repeat the same, so will I.

Some of us prefer Mac OS X by choice but have certain needs which requires running Windows based applications (some occasionally, some more than others). Being able to do this on an Intel Mac without the great performance tax of emulating the complete x86-ISA like with the PowerPC version of Virtual PC is a serious benefit to those who can make use of this. No one is putting a gun to yours or anyone elses head requiring you to buy a retail copy of Windows to dual boot (and the same will apply to a virtualization product as a guest OS would still need to be acquired). This one fact makes this notion of OS X development being killed off pretty much a flawed theory.

Using your logic, free opensource software should have overtaken the Mac application space by now given that the BSD subsystem is installed by default. Adobe could have told Mac users to just use the GIMP. Microsoft could have told us to use Open Office. Did that happen? NO.

Yet you and others keep bringing up this theory about prospective developers no longer having any reason to create native OS X versions of applications and games. Well you said it yourself, NOT YET ported. What if anything has changed? These companies weren't creating those native versions to begin with (even before this Intel switch was announced) when they could have been doing it all along. We haven't lost anything since we had nothing to begin with.

Using AutoCAD as an example, how long has Mac OS X been out on the market? Using that as a gauge, Autodesk has had that many years to bring out a version of AutoCAD for the Mac. They equally could have told Mac users to purchase VPC and a copy of AutoCAD for Windows but they never did because companies like this aren't that stupid to "market" their products in such a manner since doing so destroys any goodwill which would have serious repurcussions if they ever do decide to enter the Mac market in the future. Someone else posed some of this before but you and so many others seem to selectively ignore this fact. Sure, the move to Intel presents the ability to run Windows natively via dual boot or with far better performance in VPC-like fashion via some future virtualization product (which is what I'm waiting for) but bottomline, it is still a Mac where the primary operating environment is Mac OS X and native OS X apps will continue to be the primary choice when available (and for some, the only option). The move to Intel does not make porting such an application any easier as the difference is still programming for Windows and Mac OS X. The same thing goes for game software companies. They weren't exactly tripping over themselves and beating down the doors to develop or port their games to the Mac before. There is also the issue of DirectX which many game developers utilize.

If you are talking about possible future development since the time the Intel Mac's were released, than we'd still be getting the shaft waiting for who knows how long as the bottomline to these ISV's is Mac marketshare. Everything Apple has tried since Jobs took over before the switchover to Intel has failed to yield sizeable marketshare gains. It has been a little-by-little process. If providing enabling technology to make running other operating systems an easier prospect (which then allows those who can make use of this capability to get the most out of these systems) and this ability potentially attracts new customers resulting in increased Mac hardware sales over time, this would be the needed growth in marketshare numbers that will provide the catalyst for companies business decision with regards to Mac OS X software development. That sort of stuff does not happen overnight though and will also require Apple's developer relations to reach out.

If we're talking about those companies who now port games to the Mac reconsidering that move because these Intel Mac's are able to dual boot, it is still going to be a small niche within the Mac market as there is still the larger demographic who have no intention of purchasing a copy of Windows, purchasing a copy of a Windows-only game, and then dual booting in order to run that game. The majority of Mac users are going to opt for Mac-native versions.

If you cannot understand this simple fact, take a look at yourself and others who detest Windows so much that you refuse to ever consider putting it on your own Mac and will use whatever means to find a suitable Mac alternative as opposed to ever running Windows. Companies who enter or are already in the Mac market fully realize this as they aren't as clueless as users think they are. It's called understanding your market demographic. To push that point further across, I'm sure some folks who have been using Mac's since the early to mid 90's remember that atrocity known as Microsoft Office 4.2 or more specifically, the Word 6 app which was a port of the Windows version. Many including myself stuck with Version 5 for the longest time because the new UI was not Mac-like. This is one of the other reasons why the Mac BU came into existence as Microsoft learned the hard way about the sort of expectations Mac users have when it comes to how their programs work. Office 98 revealed that and also showed how different both Word 98 and Excel 98 were from their Windows Office 97 counterparts.

Apple with these Intel Mac's are offering customers plenty of options. In the absence of OS X native software and/or the requirement to run a specific Windows based software for which there is no Mac equal (even if there is some other equivalent by another developer) as mandated by a company, the only alternative for some of us is to run Windows. The ability to either dual boot for the best performance and in the near future, use virtualization solutions (with much higher performance than what VPC on PPC could ever deliver) means being able to consolidate computing hardware into one system. For dual platform companies, this is a big deal because this will result in cost savings in not only hardware purchases but also with other things like support contracts and electric bills. Some companies may follow Aozora Bank's lead but that scenario won't be as common since corporations have many man hours invested in staff training for operating a Windows desktop.

For potential consumer switchers, these options are going to be a boon as it will make their transition much smoother. Most casual consumers who are switching aren't going to switch to Mac hardware (and pay a slight premium in the process) just to run Windows as their primary OS but being able to run Windows at or near native speed as a safety net makes things more attractive. Additionally, Apple isn't supporting Windows as they are not shipping the OS with their hardware. All they are doing is providing the enabling technology and associated Windows drivers to make the process easier in Apple-like fashion and a better Apple-like experience for their customers who can make use of this functionality.

Finally, those who think this is another OS/2 scenario probably don't realize that it was a variety of circumstances which led to it failing against Windows. Furthermore, IBM licensed the Windows source in order to make the necessary modifications for seamless mode and therefore (as others have pointed out), included a full copy of Windows as part of WinOS/2 (the Mac solutions require the user to purchase a copy of Windows). I was an OS/2 user before switching to the Mac in 94 and recalled a candid discussion after an OS/2 demo with both Lee Reiswig and OS/2 demonstrator David Barnes about how their group was pretty much fighting an uphill battle even within IBM (think lack of communication and engineering resources). An original OS/2 ISV Stardock System has this article (http://www.stardock.com/stardock/art_os2past.html) and this other one (http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/os2_birthday.html) which contains tidbits about the sort of issues which OS/2 ran up against. Read the note about the support issues and it should become clearer why Apple is making a point that they are not officially supporting Windows because doing so would become a major technical support expense.

[Senbei]

I just don't like knowing that it CAN OFFICIALLY support windows.
Eh? Re-read the Boot Camp page (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) as it explicitly states that "Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows."

Is it necessary to have to 'hate' Windows to use a Mac? Can't you just like using Mac better?
For some portions of the Mac userbase, their Mac sets off a chemical reaction in their brain to make them hate Windows regardless if all that they know about the product is from what others have said instead of actually having longterm/hands on experience with it.

I'd still prefer virtualization, but I'm not surprised Apple doesn't go that extent. Leave that to VPC and other options.
Virtualization of the hypervisor variety at least on Leopard Server Intel stands a high probability of inclusion as by then, VT is going to be pushed heavily by Intel (not to mention the current virtualization craze). For Apple's server OS to compete at a basic level with the feature set of other products, it will have to more than likely include this capability. A basic subset (so as not to lock out 3rd party options like Parallels, VMWare, or even Microsoft VPC if MS execs can get past the politics of that which will likely be moot once Parallels makes their official announcement about their Intel Mac product) of that server version stands good probability of being included with Leopard client because it is easy to imagine Apple using a marketing line like "better way than using Boot Camp and dual booting to run Linux distributions or Windows side-by-side your OS X programs".

I've read in several places that this version of Boot Camp is a trial version with limited time. In no places does it actually say how long the trial is for. Does anybody know?
If this works like how other Apple beta software works, there is a built-in expiration date far in advance (in this case, it is September 30, 2007) or around the time when a newer version should replace it (with a later expiration date). In this case, since this is a beta of something which will be included in Leopard, it can be deduced that Leopard will be out well before that September 30, 2007 expiration date and if not, that a newer beta with a later expiration date will be released.

[macpastor]

I know many die-hard mac fans are upset, I keep reading these posts, but I think this could really be a good thing. I don't see OS X going anywhere, and I don't think developers are going to abandon Mac.

[Bosunsfate]

I thought the MBU was formed after MS Word 6-point-Oh-My-God. It sucked so bad that most people went back to 5.2 (5.x whatever it was). After the 6.0 mess they started advertising heavily in Mac rags looking for Mac developers. Wasn't that when the really nice Mac software started showing up from MS, and the start of MBU?

You know, I just made the assumption that Chupa Chupa was correct when he originally refuted my earlier statement about the MBU not having much of a future. I guess I should check the facts. :rolleyes:

Anyway, my point still is that the MBU is a profit center for M$ and its future does not look bright. This is held up by the fact that developers are leaving. The MBU is not really developing new software, only supporting existing releases, etc....and the UB is just a ruse as I said earlier.

The next version of Office (12, 13?) has got major architectual problems and this is causing a lot of problems. The core is that they are changing the whole foundation of Office....sounded like a good idea at the time....:D

[Gordy]

Just got cs source downloaded and played a quick game.

It plays just the same as my pc apart from the fact I'm using a track pad not a mouse at the moment hehe.

http://gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4679-1/DSCF3518.JPG

http://gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4681-1/DSCF3520.JPG

Stress test ran with no problems and came back with a result of 83fps which is more than playable. I was able to run cs:s at the default res of the display 1440x900 which is great news.

I had one crash when I tried to run militia but it was fine with other maps so I think its the version of militia as opposed to the macbook

I took some vids of it in action

Stress test starting:
http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-css-stress.avi
(5mb)

Quick play on office:
http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-css-play.avi
(11.5mb)

And for comedy effect what happened to the dell pc in the office:
http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-css-dell.avi
(6mb)

[Gordy]

I've run both 3d mark 06 and battlefield 2 now. Both run perfectly.

3dmark 06

I had to run at the default res of 1280x768 as I don't have the pro version to test it on.
The macbook pro scored 1535 3d marks , the cpu score was 1658

Please note: I have the 2.0ghz dual core mbp with 2gb of DDR2 and a X1600 256mb gfx card.

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4685-1/DSCF3523.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4687-1/DSCF3526.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4689-1/DSCF3529.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4691-1/DSCF3530.JPG

Then I installed battlefield two which ran very well. The fans kick in with heavy 3d work which is good to hear.

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4693-1/DSCF3534.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4695-1/DSCF3535.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4697-1/DSCF3536.JPG

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4701-1/DSCF3540.JPG

I took some vids of it in action:

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-bf2.avi
(4.5mb)

http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-bf2b.avi
(5mb)

[whooleytoo]

The reworked "Mac with Intel chip" advert still has me in stitches! :p

[weldon]

http://gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/d/4681-1/DSCF3520.JPG
Quick! Take out that Dell machine on the desk!

[Charleson Mambo]

For what it's worth here's what I'm going to do.

Use Boot Camp and/or Parallel (only) for trying out free demos of games that aren't available for Mac.

If I like the demo, I will let the developer know that I tried it, enjoyed it, and "eagerly await the Mac veersion so I can buy a copy".

If enough people actually do this, it just might make a difference.


Charleson Mambo

(I have, of course, NOT read the whole thread, so if this has been mentioned before, sorry for the repeated meme.)

[MacRumorsReader]

For what it's worth here's what I'm going to do.

Use Boot Camp and/or Parallel (only) for trying out free demos of games that aren't available for Mac.

If I like the demo, I will let the developer know that I tried it, enjoyed it, and "eagerly await the Mac veersion so I can buy a copy".

If enough people actually do this, it just might make a difference.


Charleson Mambo

(I have, of course, NOT read the whole thread, so if this has been mentioned before, sorry for the repeated meme.)

BrillianT!

That's the first time I've heard it mentioned (and I've read the whole freakin thread. Including parts that don't exist anymore!). Count me IN!

[Gordy]

Quick! Take out that Dell machine on the desk!

Download the cs video ;)

It should give you a laugh :D

[guez]

...until someone loses a platform.

Macintosh, RIP
1984-2006

[defylogik]

cant wait for a new intel imac!

[MacRumorsReader]

I thought that this article (http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/04/06/1545814.htm) was well written.

And the last line of it will make you laugh out loud: A true LOL moment.

[PiTT]

Someone can see the Mac HD in WindowsXP with MacDrive?

[Thomas Veil]

I don't see OS X going anywhere...I hope you meant "going away". When you don't see something going anywhere, it sounds like you're saying it doesn't have a future.

If that's what you did mean, then you need to check out the whole Tiger-vs.-Vista thing again.

[Krevnik]

That is just ignorant of the facts. 1) M$ just signed an agreement with Apple to continue Office for Mac for at least 5 years. 2) Unless Apple really starts eating at Windows market share then M$ NEEDS to keep making Office for Mac for anti-trust reasons. So while current employees may not feel fulfilled there (and I think that feeling is pervasive throughout M$ these days) the MBU isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I would just like to say that the feeling of employees not being fulfilled here is NOT as pervasive as one would think. MS has it's fingers in an awful lot of pies, so Vista going to pot is not an indicator of the company as a whole. Look at the Home Entertainment Division, which is doing some of its best work right now with the 360... Windows Mobile and CE still have plenty of growth room, and has plans for the future which look quite promising that I cannot discuss in detail. Hell, even Office is doing some interesting and new things trying to make the UI less intimidating, but just as powerful.

The problem here is that Ballmer has stated to shareholders that Windows itself still has growth potential, and Vista just can't make that happen. But believe me when I say this: Even if MS eventually loses OS dominance, it will have plenty of divisions and products that will survive /almost/ unaffected. And plenty of us are just fine doing the work that we do. Windows... well, right now... that division is a mess, IMHO.

(And I have been a Mac user for well over a decade... I remember when System 6.0.7 was the new toy... I just happen to work in mobile devices)

[DJ Bliss]

I am genuinely afraid that Windows will somehow destroy Apple

There are now two types of Macs

Those that primarily Run OSX
Those that primarily run windows.

I just hope that the former doesn't shrink into oblivion. I welcome the change, I just hope its not the death of Apple.

One more thing... Does anyone else feel that what made Apple so special was that windows users couldn't lay their lame hands on it? Apple used to be so high class. Now they have attracted a bad element.

[Le Big Mac]

Hmmm...if enough people think like that...it just might mean the end to Mac development on those software titles or the hope that a Mac version will ever be developed. If people buy the Windows version instead of the MacOSX version, why should they bother making them? I guess Apple finally realized they lost the OS war years ago and now is finally conforming to what is considered the "world standard."

That's my fear. The only mac software will be that supplied by apple. everyone else will say buy windows and dual boot or use virtualization.

[steve_hill4]

...until someone loses a platform.

Macintosh, RIP
1984-2006
Mac OS will not die. Even if it did, it has many good years left in it before Apple gave up, (which I stil see as unlikely).

[Seasought]

It seems like it could go two ways.

In one way it could highlight the deficiencies of the Windows operating system thereby encouraging users to switch to OS X.

The other way is that, despite it's inadequacy, Windows is still used and OS X is largely ignored for the most part.

There has to be some kind of scheme involved that I'm not seeing. Perhaps Apple just wants to increase sales even if it is at a cost to their own OS. :(

[crees!]

I thought that this article (http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2006/04/06/1545814.htm) was well written.

And the last line of it will make you laugh out loud: A true LOL moment.

Particularly this quote referring to Boot Camp:
That's a "rather limited solution" said Bradley Dichter, technical adviser to Long Island Macintosh Users Group. Apple's next major release, Leopard, to be previewed in August, will make it easier to alternate between Windows and Mac OS.

I smell sweet goodness coming!

[Bosunsfate]

Senbei, as a newbie you are okay in my book. Your comprehensive response was pretty good.

People who work on the software industry know certainly well that development in OSX is far from dead....enough said.

Those screaming the end is near....we'll I'm sure there are some churches in Waco, Texas that will welcome you in. :p

[Bosunsfate]

I would just like to say that the feeling of employees not being fulfilled here is NOT as pervasive as one would think. MS has it's fingers in an awful lot of pies, so Vista going to pot is not an indicator of the company as a whole. Look at the Home Entertainment Division, which is doing some of its best work right now with the 360... Windows Mobile and CE still have plenty of growth room, and has plans for the future which look quite promising that I cannot discuss in detail. Hell, even Office is doing some interesting and new things trying to make the UI less intimidating, but just as powerful.

The problem here is that Ballmer has stated to shareholders that Windows itself still has growth potential, and Vista just can't make that happen. But believe me when I say this: Even if MS eventually loses OS dominance, it will have plenty of divisions and products that will survive /almost/ unaffected. And plenty of us are just fine doing the work that we do. Windows... well, right now... that division is a mess, IMHO.

(And I have been a Mac user for well over a decade... I remember when System 6.0.7 was the new toy... I just happen to work in mobile devices)

Krevnik, just a question, but my assumption is that you are talking about MS as a whole? I would certainly agree with you that the MS Corporation is not going anywhere and do show some good promise, in many areas.

That said, there are always sub-divisions within a company that come and go. The MBU group is certainly one of those...

Then again we partner with our competition in many ways. So for MS to redfined what the MBU objectives are is certainly possible.

[sbb155]

1. Why are G5 people upset? I thought you all hated windows.
2. For corporate users, like me, can anyone tell me how powerpoint and office run?

[Tupring]

I think Apple are who held the original contest, so they could put this out.

[KevIncognito]

OK, I give up. How Do You Connect The External CD-ROM Drive?? FireWire is the only way I know how to do that so are you are saying that the FW port works during the install? Or must it be USB 2? :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:


Sorry, Yeah, my drive was USB... not sure about FireWire support in the Windows Installer.

[deputy_doofy]

1. Why are G5 people upset? I thought you all hated windows.
2. For corporate users, like me, can anyone tell me how powerpoint and office run?

Doesn't bother me. I love my G5 and it's still quite a beast in terms of power.

Having the option to run Windows @ 99% full speed (w/o buying a PC) is nice. I will never use Windows as my mainstream OS, though. It's great for Pinball. :D

[blybug]

This caught me by surprise as I walked by a newspaper box at work today. If it hadn't been for Katie Couric, the Apple story may have been the lead headline! :eek:
http://bly.cc/bigthumb3.jpg

[DavidRB]

Dual Core Mac Mini..

XP Just hangs at the point where it tries to install the "Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset Family" driver from the drivers CD that I burnt from the Boot Camp app.

Anyone else got this?

Makes me realise just why I love my Macs.. although if I could just play Civ4 :)

/DavidRB

[Tupring]

Why is there so much Hype here (and everywhere else) about Windows. It's windows for ****'s sake!

[bigjohn]

I'm sure this post will get lost in the ether... but I was reading over on PVR Wire about a dual-tuner NVIDIA card.

We've all been worrying about software and development and rightly so. I wonder though if there's a new market for hardware developers. Think of a company like NVIDIA, they could now make video boards for the upcoming PowerMac that not only take advantage of the superior Apple firepower in a mac, but also keep them in-line with their advancements on the PC side (gamers, perk up your ears). In the end, Boot Camp isn't really about pushing one agenda past another, it's bigger than that. Is it possible that Boot Camp is just the opening salvo in the Convergence Wars? A unified appliance that brings together all the software, all the media and all the hardware - is customizable, scalable and upgradeable.

Last night I priced out a fully-optioned Mini, $1400 or so, that I could use not only for my Mac needs (research, video editing), but also for my Windows needs (Chyron's Lyric software, www.chyron.com). Satisfies my primary needs almost completely in a low-priced, quiet, sleek and easily operational platform. Down the road, stack two Minis for parallel-peformance in video rendering and add a third as a whole-house server. Boot into any of 3 different OS's, use one as a DVR or media server, on and on...

[SiliconAddict]

Hmmm...if enough people think like that...it just might mean the end to Mac development on those software titles or the hope that a Mac version will ever be developed. If people buy the Windows version instead of the MacOSX version, why should they bother making them? I guess Apple finally realized they lost the OS war years ago and now is finally conforming to what is considered the "world standard."


I doubt it. Realisticly each platform has their own superior software. Windows has its games, Office, and a few other industry require things. (My Lexmark cert software as an example.) OS X has iLife, aperture (That will mature with age.), OS X (Nache.), and a ton of other apps that simply aren't available for Windows. For me its only a matter of time before I get a 160GB hard drive in my Macbook and get some breathing room again at which point everything gets reloaded. Then add Macdrive to XP and you are set.

[Platform]

1. Why are G5 people upset? I thought you all hated windows.
2. For corporate users, like me, can anyone tell me how powerpoint and office run?

I think my G5 is great....and why do you need PowerPoint under Windows....there is a Mac version ;)

[tigemac]

OMG...some of you people really do amaze me with your chicken little BS.

My wife and I are buying two new Intel Macs (primarily will run OS X). We are doing so BECAUSE of this announcement. We love the Mac experience, but had started to convert everything back to Windows as our Macs grew older. Why? Because we couldn't get away from using Windows on at least a limited basis for our jobs and for gaming.

We could not afford the time, money, or office space to continue purchasing BOTH a Windows PC and a current model Mac as well as occasionally duplicating software licenses for both platforms. BootCamp has solved all that for us and now we can have ONE unified system that will run Mac OS X primarily and still allow us the flexibility of running WinXP when we want to (or have to).

This isn't the doom of the Mac platform. It is a very smart and extremely beneficial move for Apple's future. The more people see how Mac OS X works the more converts you will have. The largest barrier to entry has always been compatibility with the Windows world. Symbolically speaking, Steve Jobs has just torn down something the size of the Berlin Wall. Everything the guy touches turns to gold. I don't see any reason for you Apple faithful to start doubting him now.

[dejo]

I came across so many nice quips about Boot Camp, it almost seemed like a book being reviewed. So, if it was a book, here's what I'd imagine the backcover would look like:

[owl-boy]

Does any1 think the bootcamp logo looks like it has promise for leopard bax art?


reply here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=192115

[stomachdoc]

I'm an Apple shareholder, like many of the people on Macrumors. My feeling is that this is the most significant development for Apple as a company since the introduction of the iPod. I imagine that they won't market it until Leopard is released.

The days of people "on the fence" about switching are over....you can have the best of both worlds. "My kids use Macs at school but I use a PC at work....." Solution, buy a Mac. "I want to get into digital photography, and iPhoto looks cool, but I've had all my finances on Quicken and I'm scared to switch" Solution, buy a Mac.

Apple will likely be the largest manufacturer of personal computers within 5 years.

It's a remarkable time for Apple.

[haztastic]

hey ppl,

ive successfully booted windows xp on my macbook pro 2ghz/2gb ram - works perfectly, extremely fast and all the games work great!

ONE PROBLEM however. I cant get the sound to work! :confused: The start up theme occurs when logging in but thats it. The sound cards/drivers are there, the volume controls are all on high but theres no sound coming out at all. any ideas or ppl with similar problems? cant get help anywhere...cheers

[blazewon22]

I know we are all geeked about boot camp but shouldn't we be trying to get the Mac OS on a more powerful PC Dual Core than going the opposite direction with XP on a Mac? Imagine a 3.6 Dual Core Dell running OSX with the latest Video Cards. Talk about a beast!

When I first heard the news it seemed like a concession to the hackers after Apple's original stance was the Mac would not support Windows.

Truth be told I feel lied to by Apple for years now. First it was we couldn't compare the processing power of the mac to PC because of the architecture. Now its "Intel is soo much faster".

How do we destroy the beast that is Windows when we get all geeked up and ballyhoo the ability to run the bloated virus and security prone OS on our precious Macs. Why should I continue to spend and extra grand on slower hardware just to run Windows?

[zenvision]

ONE PROBLEM however. I cant get the sound to work! :confused: The start up theme occurs when logging in but thats it. The sound cards/drivers are there, the volume controls are all on high but theres no sound coming out at all. any ideas or ppl with similar problems? cant get help anywhere...cheers

try what this guy did:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=192062

[bluedevil14]

I know we are all geeked about boot camp but shouldn't we be trying to get the Mac OS on a more powerful PC Dual Core than going the opposite direction with XP on a Mac? Imagine a 3.6 Dual Core Dell running OSX with the latest Video Cards. Talk about a beast!

When I first heard the news it seemed like a concession to the hackers after Apple's original stance was the Mac would not support Windows.

Truth be told I feel lied to by Apple for years now. First it was we couldn't compare the processing power of the mac to PC because of the architecture. Now its "Intel is soo much faster".

How do we destroy the beast that is Windows when we get all geeked up and ballyhoo the ability to run the bloated virus and security prone OS on our precious Macs. Why should I continue to spend and extra grand on slower hardware just to run Windows?
I'm not sure how I would feel if someone came up with a way to do it. I think tons of PC users would buy OSX to install on their PC's which would much cheaper then switching. This means that Apple would earn less money off these "switchers" then if they had gone out and bought a Mac Mini and installed XP on it.
Also, the more people installing Mac OSX on their PC's would mean a much bigger target for viruses, hackers and the like?
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Apple would stop, or a least not support it like they did with Boot Camp, installing OSX on a dell/sony/gateway/etc?

[talkingmonkey]

I installed xp home using bootcamp today on my new intel imac and it worked flawlessly. The bad (or good) thing is that xp seems to run so much faster than os x. I've used windows machines for years and just recently made the switch. It will be great to have the option of using both systems on the same machine. They both have their good and bad points so now I can get the best of both worlds. Fantastic. The only odd thing that happened is that my clock was wrong when I loaded os x after running windows but it self corrected. I think Apple makes mention of that happening on the instructions.

[Billy Boo Bob]

ONE PROBLEM however. I cant get the sound to work! :confused: The start up theme occurs when logging in but thats it. The sound cards/drivers are there, the volume controls are all on high but theres no sound coming out at all. any ideas or ppl with similar problems? cant get help anywhere...cheers

I'd try looking over at MacFixIt.com. The last couple daily recaps I got seem to be loaded with both Boot Camp and Parallels Workstation issues / solutions. Maybe try MacInTouch.com, too.

[SeaFox]

I take issue with a gross oversight on Apple's part. At the boot-up screen, Windows is the LEFT icon to choose and Apple the RIGHT. I think since most people read Left-to-right, "Macintosh HD" should've been on the LEFT side.

The Boot Screen doesn't come up unless you hold down the Option key to start with, so unless someone was wanting to boot differntly than normal they wouldn't get the choice. It's not like the computer is going to ask them on every boot from now on what OS they want and Windows is already highlighted. I bet it is influenced by which OS is defined as the default, too. So if you had Windows as the default OS and held in the option key on boot, maybe OSX would be first>

[Prom1]

Oh baby with all of you still making me drool 3yrs & counting (brief 3 month excursion to Mac OS X 10.1.5) are any of you just waiting to see Apple present say 4 machines (Gateway, Dell, Dell's Alienware, etc) vs there's for WinXP performance on a Mac?!

Match this:

Photoshop on WinXP > Dell vs Alienware vs Gateway vs Apple
& Other OS Apps (likely on equal spec laptops just to show the disparity.)

Then offset that performance of doing the same Windows based task (ie movie to DVD authoring, etc) vs Mac OS X's tools to do the same and show the quality & timing variable.

Then finally bring out the BIG guns and show them up .... with ....

Alienware's then current (Aug '06) Top Desktop.
Dell's then current top XPS system.
Gateway's then current top Desktop.
vs
Apple's new DUAL quad-core Mac! (30th Anniversary celebrated machine)!!

Sorry with so many specific threads already showing this I wasnt sure if a new thread or post would be better.

[Gatorman]

The Boot Screen doesn't come up unless you hold down the Option key to start with, so unless someone was wanting to boot differntly than normal they wouldn't get the choice. It's not like the computer is going to ask them on every boot from now on what OS they want and Windows is already highlighted. I bet it is influenced by which OS is defined as the default, too. So if you had Windows as the default OS and held in the option key on boot, maybe OSX would be first>


Or maybe it's a little pun on Apple's part.....OS X is on the right because it is the "right" OS choice out of the two? :rolleyes:

I know, I know....it's campy...but that's what I'd do. :D

[FFTT]

A few months ago I found out that the company I work for was getting ready to spend a few million on new computers.

I ended up with a $3700 ToughBook and I am sure glad that it's pedestal mounted, becasue i would sure hate to carry it every where.

I told our regional supervisor and a few close co-works that they REALLY should hold off till spring.

Well spring has sprung and lookee here folks.

Apple has done a very good job of sewing seeds
and now it's time to grow.

[FFTT]

This caught me by surprise as I walked by a newspaper box at work today. If it hadn't been for Katie Couric, the Apple story may have been the lead headline! :eek:
http://bly.cc/bigthumb3.jpg


It seems like two missing links are covered in these headlines.

[Finch]

If my English is not proper, I am sorry for that.
I am not native, so please let me excuse.

I think Apple made a wrong decision. :mad:

How the Apple vice president can think "We think Boot Camp makes the Mac even more appealing to Windows users considering making the switch." ?

I think it will turn out to be very opposite. The switched users (from Win to Mac) will switch back using Windows once again. Although, they will love the intel Mac and Design of Apple machine and love to use windows under the great Apple machine.

Also, now Microsoft (Adobe or other software company etc…) has a reason to stop making software for Mac OS because Apple machine can run Windows. They do not want to make software for Mac OS due to cost reduction.

For people who play games under XP on Apple machine , who will restart your computer to use Mac OS for internet or Microsoft office? If I play games under XP, I will use Internet and office under XP also. I do not want to restart computer again and again.

I am big apple fan, and I have been using Mac for 8 years; however, this is very sad news for me.

[Billy Boo Bob]

It just amazes me how much doom and gloom I read in the multiple threads here and on other sites.

I wish I knew where to find the link, but I think it was during MWSF 05 that someone posted a link to an archive of a "live" thread (during keynote) going on from a few years earlier when the first iPod was introduced. 80 - 90% of the messages were all:

"Who's going to buy this junk?"... "Nobody will ever buy this thing."... "There goes the Mac OS. Apple's turning into a gadget company."... "I'll never buy one of these things."...

Well, "Nobody" bought millions of them, and "Nobody" bought a BILLION songs at iTMS.

This sounds like the same exact FUD. "Nobody is going to develop for OS X any more."... "Big houses are just going to tell you to load XP / Vista on your Mac if you want to use their software."...

What a load of crap. As mentioned before, Adobe had to see this coming. Do you really think they would have started on Lightbox for OS X only (with a Windows version coming out "later on") if they were going to just tell you to use the Windows version? And this is after Apple has already released a major competitor.

Even if Adobe (foolishly) decided to abandon OS X development of all their apps, don't you think Apple has replacements in the works? Same for MS and Office? They may not be ready to release tomorrow, but I would bet a dollar to your dime that OS X running on Intel isn't the only big thing that's been hiding away in secret, "just in case". Take a look at the quality of their pro apps. I'm sure they could come up with a viable replacement for all the missing heavy duty apps in no time, including all the MacroMedia ones Adobe bought. And if not Apple, sombody else will. Right now, as long as Adobe is still producing, it's not worth trying to compete. But if they abandoned the Mac market and left a void, someone will fill it.

The day Adobe tells major publishers to dump their recently purchased Quad G5s (which will be good, strong workhorses for many years to come) and replace them all with Intel Macs just to run XP or Vista for their apps is the day a HUGE number of their customers tell them to go #$%* themselves. We'll find something else. The same goes for most other "heavy duty" apps not made by Adobe or MS's MBU (Maya comes to mind). This just ain't gonna happen.

You doom-sayers act like every single Mac user is going to run right out and get an Intel Mac next week. And every single Mac user is going to buy Windoze to use with Boot Camp or Parallels Workstation "to be ready for it". I'd be surprised if 5% of all Mac users use them (either one) on a daily basis (perhaps not counting serious gamers). The number of people who have to for work or school purposes is just not that great. Those same people are excited about this, as they should be, but still, it's going to be a small number of people (note that I say "use it daily").

As was mentioned (maybe in this thread, maybe another (I've browsed so many of them lately))... "You couldn't pay me enough to adopt Windows as my main OS".

[dejo]

Also, now Microsoft (Adobe or other software company etc…) has a reason to stop making software for Mac OS because Apple machine can run Windows. They do not want to make software for Mac OS due to cost reduction.

I disagree. These companies are already making Windows versions of their software. Before there was Boot Camp, you didn't hear them saying "Why don't you just go out and buy a Windows computer to run our software?", did you? And any good app provider won't do that now that there's Boot Camp either...

[Macnoviz]

Can anyone check if this is a record for thread lenght??

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/bluscreenimac.jpg

[MacQuest]

Thursday, Bloody Thursday.

My daily "routine" of professing that "seamless integration between Apple's OS and hardware are what makes the 'Mac experience' superior to the lack of experience on peecees." was no where to be seen or heard on Thursday.

44 hours ago, I was surrounded by "miCrapsoft apologists" and "winBlows Lusers" which I loathed, yet secretely loved, because they "complete me." ;)

They were the Ying to my Yang. Now, there are none. I am alone now as there is no debate to be had :( ... at least in my workplace.

It is simply impossible to engage in a verbal argument with those dime-a-dozen "microsoft certifiables" who have now been left speechless at the performance of my 20" demo iMac running AutoCAD and Half Life 2.

:rolleyes: Tomorrow by request, I promised to show a few of them how to use iMovie. :rolleyes:

This war has begun and blood has been spilt. This revolution will be televised, streamed and uploaded as a Podcast. :D

[needthephone]

A great idea. We have both a Dell and an imac and have to say the imac is OK but you can't find anything to run on it. Its also annoying because:
1) The icon bar at the bottom hides essential pieces of information like the print icon so you have to move the print dialogue so you can just see the icon
2) It never works on the internet properly despite making sure I downloaded the latest browser
3) Entorage is unstable
4) Its difficult to network with a PC
5) You can't find anything to run on it without paying through the nose
6) It hangs up a lot with that irritating rotaing icon thingy and how do you force quit again (everyonre knows how to ctrl alt delete but you have to search on google to find out how to do this with a mac)
7) I know how to use PC's and how to do things with folders, files etc-can't work out OS whatever
8) The mouse has only one button-what?
It's also very buggy (Entorage is a pain no where near as reliable as Outlook sorry to say) We did feel quite smug when we first got the imac but now we are in the process of getting rid of it, its been an expensive experiment. To be honest we would not have contimplated another mac but this changes things-It is good to get a choice as basically it seems its only Dell which is left-been burnt too many times by no names. Now its a price feature comparison as I like Apple design and reliabilty just not the OSX part. We did buy the mac after a truly horrible experience with Windows millenium addition but XP is a differant matter and now I would honestly say its more stable than OS whatever.

[dalvin200]

A great idea. We have both a Dell and an imac and have to say the imac is OK but you can't find anything to run on it. Its also annoying because:
1) The icon bar at the bottom hides essential pieces of information like the print icon so you have to move the print dialogue so you can just see the icon
2) It never works on the internet properly despite making sure I downloaded the latest browser
3) Entorage is unstable
4) Its difficult to network with a PC
5) You can't find anything to run on it without paying through the nose
6) It hangs up a lot with that irritating rotaing icon thingy and how do you force quit again (everyonre knows how to ctrl alt delete but you have to search on google to find out how to do this with a mac)
7) I know how to use PC's and how to do things with folders, files etc-can't work out OS whatever
8) The mouse has only one button-what?
It's also very buggy (Entorage is a pain no where near as reliable as Outlook sorry to say) We did feel quite smug when we first got the imac but now we are in the process of getting rid of it, its been an expensive experiment. To be honest we would not have contimplated another mac but this changes things-It is good to get a choice as basically it seems its only Dell which is left-been burnt too many times by no names. Now its a price feature comparison as I like Apple design and reliabilty just not the OSX part. We did buy the mac after a truly horrible experience with Windows millenium addition but XP is a differant matter and now I would honestly say its more stable than OS whatever.

you obviously need to use the mac a LOT more if for the sole use of the dictionary :D

[needthephone]

Ok my spulling may not be crash hot but I mean everything I say. I think this boot camp is a great idea- the best of both worlds-Windows OS and apple hardware-please don't get all defensive, I just want the thing to work and have a choice of software after spending a few thousand dollars, its not a fashion thing.

[Galex]

Today I received a first sign that Apple really intends to market this new possibility in order to sell more computers. I subscribe to an e-mail service bringing announcements and rebates tailored to the many Swedish college students that have a so-called student card. This morning I got the following message from Apple (being one of the partners in this service), as translated from Swedish:

"Run Win XP on new Macs!
Apple has just released Boot Camp which makes it possible to run Windows XP on new macs! Now you cannot escape, there is no reason not to buy a Mac the next time you buy a new computer! The Mac can do everything! The programme is now available in a beta version to download today, and will be included in the next version of Mac OS X."

/Galex

[mixel]

1) The icon bar at the bottom hides essential pieces of information like the print icon so you have to move the print dialogue so you can just see the icon
Whaat? Not an issue here. You mean the dock? 'turn hiding on' if somehow your apps are getting behind it.. ? what's the print dialogue doing down there anyway.. ?!
2) It never works on the internet properly despite making sure I downloaded the latest browser
Not had that problem myself. Some sites are badly made, but pretty much everything works here.
4) Its difficult to network with a PC
Read: "It works slightly differently and I can't be bothered to work it out!!" - it's actually very easy.
5) You can't find anything to run on it without paying through the nose
Wrong. http://www.macupdate.com - Beginning to think you're a troll.
6) It hangs up a lot with that irritating rotaing icon thingy and how do you force quit again (everyonre knows how to ctrl alt delete but you have to search on google to find out how to do this with a mac)
You'd have to look up Ctrl/Alt/Del if you didn't know how to do it too. :rolleyes: That's so incredibly silly. Everyone who knows osX knows Alt/Apple/Esc.
7) I know how to use PC's and how to do things with folders, files etc-can't work out OS whatever
Umm.. What's all that different? they both have very similar ways of doing 'things with folders'
8) The mouse has only one button-what?
Right, that definitely makes you sound like a troll. ;) The mouse has as many buttons as it had when you bought it. Recently apple sells 4 button mice. Plug in almost any old PC USB mouse. Problem solved.
We did buy the mac after a truly horrible experience with Windows millenium addition but XP is a differant matter and now I would honestly say its more stable than OS whatever.
It isn't. They're both stable, but XP isn't more stable. Only time i ever have to reboot my mac is for software updates now.. Compared to XP.. and it's stacks of necessary security stuff. Blurgh. Entourage isn't osX, I have little experience with it, but if Entourage is crashing for you it's not necessarily Apple's/osX's fault.



Back on topic though.. I genuinely think Boot Camp is a very good thing, though I hope they don't settle for the dual boot method ultimately.. I really want to know what'll be in Leopard now!

[deadturtle]

What remains to be seen is if this ushers in a new era of computing. If companies, espcially those that would normally buy their employees a PC and a Mac for what ever purpose will now exclusively buy a Mac and a copy of XP. While for folks who like to work side by side might feel a bit crunch for places that have limited budgets being able to purchase one computer could be a huge boon. Coupled with the software that just showed up to allow access to the Mac HDD on windows, and you could have a complete workstation solution (plus the screen on the iMac). So while we are being hypothetical say x,x,x,x and x company all suddenly decide to go with one system (rather than many for their programmers, etc) and say two of those companies also produce some kind of software for other companies also making a changeover in theory they would design for the platform (eg OS X) thus causing MORE developers to start working with OS X. Eventually as more companies realize that having to only buy one computer saves them lots of cash more companies start producing OS X based software. Then suddenly we all stop and looking around, All these companies started this process to condense their desktop purchases, but in the end they wound up with Universal Binaries that run on both Windows and X (take your pick) and suddenly Apple has most of the market share and Windows is the niche OS :rolleyes:

Its a dream, but a nice dream!

[~Shard~]

I wish I knew where to find the link, but I think it was during MWSF 05 that someone posted a link to an archive of a "live" thread (during keynote) going on from a few years earlier when the first iPod was introduced. 80 - 90% of the messages were all:

<snip>



You mean you don't know about the famous Thread #500 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500)? Don't worry, as you progress out of newbie-dom you will soon know that infamous MacRumors number off the top of your head like everyone else here! :p :cool:

[^squirrel^]

Can anyone check if this is a record for thread lenght??

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/bluscreenimac.jpg


That's a first....

iMac with the blue screen of death...legit as well!

[Moses]

I have two major problems that are preventing me from running XP.

I've installed the firmware update. My sytem is a MacBook Pro, 10.4.6, nothing out-of-the-ordinary, 2Ghz, 2GB RAM.

When I run Boot Camp Assistant, and burn the drivers disc, it burns the disc, then when it gets to the finalise burn part of the process the software just continues to run - it never finishes.

Partitioning the drive works fine, I insert the XP disk and press start installation, it re-boots, the install program loads.

Then you come to the screen where it says press enter to install, etc. I press enter. Nothing happens. Pressing any key has no effect. It doesn't seem to be reading the keyboard.

Can anyone help? This is really disappointing.

[Billy Boo Bob]

You mean you don't know about the famous Thread #500 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500)? Don't worry, as you progress out of newbie-dom you will soon know that infamous MacRumors number off the top of your head like everyone else here! :p :cool:

Hehe. That's the one. I did read through all the posts here and saw it referenced a few times, but didn't go to it. I guess I was trying to get to the end of this thread, which was quite a chase the first couple of days. Every time I would read through a page then jump to the next page, another one or two had been added.

So, I'll brush off the dirt from the initiation kick in the butt and consider myself educated. :)

Edit: Well, I read through some of thread 500, and I may have over-estimated the failure% rate. Maybe closer to 50%.

I don't have the time to check myself, but it would be real interesting to see how many of the people who predicted the iPod would bomb in that thread are the same ones predicting OS X's death here.

[janstett]

Short term, this will lead to more Mac sales, no question. This means more people running OS X. Long term, this can either mean (a) more Mac OS X apps because the market is bigger or (b) fewer Mac OS X apps as app developers use the "just boot windows" excuse.


Actually, this brings up an important marketing point. One that Microsoft has leveraged for years.

Apple will sell a copy of OSX for every Macintosh sold -- even if those Macintoshes will be immediately reformatted for Windows-only. Let's say 5 million people buy Macs and 3 million of them go Windows-only on them. Apple can still say there are 5 million OSX users even if there are now only 2 milion. This is a powerful lever to use against software vendors and others in the behind-the-scenes world.

Microsoft did this in the old days -- even if you bought a PC to run OS/2 or Linux, you had bought a license for Windows built into the PC and were counted as part of the user base.

[janstett]

If I like the demo, I will let the developer know that I tried it, enjoyed it, and "eagerly await the Mac veersion so I can buy a copy".

Which means waiting longer to play a game you alredy played and are capable of playing at any moment without any further work. :confused:

I don't see very many development houses following your logic.

[janstett]

One more thing... Does anyone else feel that what made Apple so special was that windows users couldn't lay their lame hands on it? Apple used to be so high class. Now they have attracted a bad element.

That's what I always hated about Apple owners, their self-gratifying image problem. I avoided Apple like the plague and hoped for its death for 25 years. Apple II owners were pricks too, looking down on the C64 and Atari guys. Then last year I bought a Mac Mini and now I have a MacBook Pro. I figured it was time to let bygones be bygones and just enjoy the Mac. I see I may have been premature.

You bought into the marketing lie and cloaked yourself in a brand. Buy Bose much?

[Cooknn]

You bought into the marketing lie and cloaked yourself in a brand. Buy Bose much?Heh. That's good :D It took a lot for me to break out of the Bose marketing lie as well. Bought some killer HT speakers from HSU Technologies - but that's too far off topic... For me it's all about OS X. I bought my first Mac over two years ago just so I could have the operating system. Yeah, Apple is a hardware company - but I would venture to guess that the majority of users buy the hardware to get the software - well the OS. No marketing hype there - all the spin in the world still won't do justice to what I believe is the best OS in existence.

Running Windows on a Mac isn't what it's about for me. Now, running OS X on a PC... that would be a different story ;)

[Digitalclips]

Has anyone tried cloning the whole drive to see if it takes clones the XP area too once it is set up? This would be a great answer to getting virus attacks in Windows area. Simply restore from back up... I assume the VM solution would be easily cloned as with VPC but the Boot Camp may be a different animal. I use SuperDuper.

[Super78]

Major moment in CGI history.

Super 78 ran MAX 8 natively on a Apple Macbook Pro 2.0.

The laptop render speed is 90% of a new Render Boxx Dual Opteron. Attached is the first native MAX on a Mac render. VRAY, Hairf/x, motion blur./

[Digitalclips]

That's what I always hated about Apple owners, their self-gratifying image problem. I avoided Apple like the plague and hoped for its death for 25 years. Apple II owners were pricks too, looking down on the C64 and Atari guys. Then last year I bought a Mac Mini and now I have a MacBook Pro. I figured it was time to let bygones be bygones and just enjoy the Mac. I see I may have been premature.

You bought into the marketing lie and cloaked yourself in a brand. Buy Bose much?

Loved your perspective from history. I always hated the non Apple ][ folks! In England they all loved the BBC micro (really they just couldn't afford an Apple). I also recall the howls about the mouse when the Mac Plus came out... 'Real Computer users will never use a mouse they'd cry' Ha ha!

I loved my Apple ][e and my Apple /// and my Lisa and all my Macs since then. Good to see even more the unwashed drooling over Macs now they can use the excuse of running a bit of PC software when needed:)

[cann11]

Loved your perspective from history. I always hated the non Apple ][ folks! In England they all loved the BBC micro (really they just couldn't afford an Apple). I also recall the howls about the mouse when the Mac Plus came out... 'Real Computer users will never use a mouse they'd cry' Ha ha!

I loved my Apple ][e and my Apple /// and my Lisa and all my Macs since then. Good to see even more the unwashed drooling over Macs now they can use the excuse of running a bit of PC software when needed:)

I think the both the boot camp is lame group and the boot camp is better than slice bread may be missing something I just realized.

1) Will boot camp be downloaded and USED by hordes of mac uses... Downloaded yes, used regularly probably not.

2) Will mac sales suddenly accelerate.. Probably not.

3) will there be a shake up in the gaming community.. Probably remember how we used to dual boot into dos before direct x.

But here's something else to consider...

Ibook sales, Many a colledge student, mine included, would rather have a nice new intel ibook than a windows laptop to go with there ipods. In fact just a week ago we were trying to make this decision, problem is a lot of the software that universites provide or require is windows only. Suddenly this is a none issue. We will be getting an intel ibook (when they are released) and an additional copy of xp pro.
I can imagine a lot of students buying nice new sleek imacs for their dorms now too.

Also , apple now has the smallest profile xp machine, the mac mini. go figure.

[milo]

1) The icon bar at the bottom hides essential pieces of information like the print icon so you have to move the print dialogue so you can just see the icon
2) It never works on the internet properly despite making sure I downloaded the latest browser
3) Entorage is unstable
4) Its difficult to network with a PC
5) You can't find anything to run on it without paying through the nose
6) It hangs up a lot with that irritating rotaing icon thingy and how do you force quit again (everyonre knows how to ctrl alt delete but you have to search on google to find out how to do this with a mac)
7) I know how to use PC's and how to do things with folders, files etc-can't work out OS whatever
8) The mouse has only one button-what?

1 You can move the dock to either side of the screen, or have it auto hide.
4 You just need to figure that out, it's actually pretty easy. Go to versiontracker and download Sharepoints, it makes it even easier.
5 What app are you looking for that you can't find?
6 If you can't remember the key for force quit, you can do it either from the Apple menu or by holding the icon in the dock until the menu shows up
7 Well, you just need to learn then, don't you?
8 The latest macs ship with two button mouse, you can also use any USB mouse and it will work fine.

Seriously, you'd have a much easier time using the machine (and could keep it instead of wasting money by getting rid of it) if you'd just ask questions instead of just complaining. I assume it's a G5 mac, not an intel one?

[Charleson Mambo]

Which means waiting longer to play a game you alredy played and are capable of playing at any moment without any further work. :confused:

1. I'll be waiting for the Mac version after playing the demo (you know, those crippled versions and not quite ready betas they give out as ads), not the "real" game.

2. Like I'm not already waiting for Mac versions of games now. Not playing those games hasn't hurt me one bit so far.

I don't see very many development houses following your logic.

I don't want them to follow my logic, I want them to follow my money.


Charleson Mambo

[MacRumorsReader]

1. I'll be waiting for the Mac version after playing the demo (you know, those crippled versions and not quite ready betas they give out as ads), not the "real" game.

2. Like I'm not already waiting for Mac versions of games now. Not playing those games hasn't hurt me one bit so far.



I don't want them to follow my logic, I want them to follow my money.


Charleson Mambo

EXACTLY

The problem is that there currently isn't a market for Mac games. As Mac market share increases (and it will) and we hound Developers to make Mac releases they will follow the money.

[~Shard~]

Hehe. That's the one. I did read through all the posts here and saw it referenced a few times, but didn't go to it. I guess I was trying to get to the end of this thread, which was quite a chase the first couple of days. Every time I would read through a page then jump to the next page, another one or two had been added.

So, I'll brush off the dirt from the initiation kick in the butt and consider myself educated. :)

Edit: Well, I read through some of thread 500, and I may have over-estimated the failure% rate. Maybe closer to 50%.

I don't have the time to check myself, but it would be real interesting to see how many of the people who predicted the iPod would bomb in that thread are the same ones predicting OS X's death here.


Heh heh - no worries. :) Yes, it is quite interesting to read through those comments, and as you say, it would be interesting to see how many people made negative comments in both that and this thread. ;)

[Lara F]

Already the first person I mentioned this news to said he was now interested in buying a Mac as his next computer. (It came up because he was planning on getting an iPod soon.)

I really think this is going to be huge. :D For my part I'm very happy as I also have some programs/files I can only open in Windows. And I'd love to dump my bulky Toshiba laptop within the next year, definitely once the RevB MacBook is out with Leopard. Yay!!!

[Platform]

Can anyone check if this is a record for thread lenght??

http://blog.wired.com/cultofmac/bluscreenimac.jpg

Well well..here we go....:p

But no...Dual 2.5Ghz PM shipping has about 2500 posts ;)

[MacQuest]

I have started seeing customers who are within their "return policy" timeframe bringing back their recently purchased windoze desktop pc's and exchanging them for Mac's.

I can only imagine that this little "secret" is gonna get out and we'll be seeing a lot more of this over the next couple of weeks.

This could be bad for Apple inventory in the short term,but obviously very good for Apple and our Macintosh platform's installed base overall.

[~Shard~]

But no...Dual 2.5Ghz PM shipping has about 2500 posts ;)

Actually it had 6198 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=79590&page=248) posts. :p :cool:

[Thomas Veil]

I have started seeing customers who are within their "return policy" timeframe bringing back their recently purchased windoze desktop pc's and exchanging them for Mac's.Isn't that interesting? :)

I still say, despite this enormous thread and all the expert punditry, we still don't know how this is all gonna shake out. The people who think this is gonna be just wonderful for Apple have just as much chance of being wrong as the ones who think this is finally The End. (And chances are, it'll be something in-between.)

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?

[~Shard~]

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?

Simple - there are a bunch of hypocrites on MacRumors. :eek: :p ;)

[kretzy]

It's like there's some kind of plague infecting everyone with a new found love for Windows. Quite frightening really.

[iMeowbot]

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?
I believe that many people's derision over the years has been little more than lightly masked envy. People felt a an urge to find fault with Windows to help justify choosing a platform where much of the good, useful software was unavailable. Now that those people can have it both ways, there is no more need to keep up the pretense.

[Billy Boo Bob]

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?
I think it's more a thing of being able to run some apps that are available on Windows (only), more than being able to run Windows itself.

You can bet that if a solution ever shows where you can run the Windows app without the OS, that's where you'll find everyone going with it.

[Platform]

Actually it had 6198 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=79590&page=248) posts. :p :cool:

Close enough :p

Anyway it is the thread with the most posts

[ManchesterTrix]

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?

Are they the same people though? Because I see a lot of people who are still deriding Windows. I just think there were a lot of Pro-Mac people who wern't Anti-Windows who are excited about added possibilities.

[~Shard~]

Close enough :p

Anyway it is the thread with the most posts


Yes, I know, just being a bastard, you know me... ;) :D

[JackieTreehorn]

Still having problems with Boot Camp-assistent. When I start the application, it give the following error

The startup disk cannot be divided into partitions or restored as one partition.

So I checked the disks and repaired them using the Tiger DVD and holding down C while booting. It verified and repaired, but I still get the same error.

Does it have to do with the fact I partitioned my 250 Gb HD into three different partitions..? I got a hunch it does, but I can't seem to get a definite answer..

Did anyone get Boot Camp-assistent running with a partitioned HD..?

[sofila]

@JackieTreeHorn:
Boot Camp Assistant only works with a Mac that has only one hard disk partition. It creates a second partition on your existing startup disk for the Windows Xp operating system.
It does it without erasing your existing partition or existing Mac Os X installation when it creates a new partition for Windows XP;)
(Copied and pasted from Apple's instructions)

[JackieTreehorn]

@JackieTreeHorn:
Boot Camp Assistant only works with a Mac that has only one hard disk partition. It creates a second partition on your existing startup disk for the Windows Xp operating system.
It does it without erasing your existing partition or existing Mac Os X installation when it creates a new partition for Windows XP;)
(Copied and pasted from Apple's instructions)

K...thanks! I got the info on the startup disk, but I must have missed the single HD partition info. Gonna give that Parallels a go then...

[Jeff Wampler]

I do have to say I think it is ironic in the extreme that the majority of us, who've spent years deriding Windows and all its defects, are so enthused about being able to put it on our Macs. What's up with that?

I agree with this and don't think that having widows on a mac is good for apple.

[Jeff Wampler]

I think it's more a thing of being able to run some apps that are available on Windows (only), more than being able to run Windows itself.

You can bet that if a solution ever shows where you can run the Windows app without the OS, that's where you'll find everyone going with it.

My solution to this is that I don't run those apps, if it's not made for a mac than it's not worth my time.

[Lara F]

So if I want to record a streaming video I should forget about it since I haven't found a Mac equivalent to WMRecorder/RMRecorder? (If there is one, I'd like to know.) Or watch Chinese TV via pplive, or purchase WMA files on 7digital.com that aren't available on US iTunes? I'm not a gamer but these are just some of the things I've had to use my PC for. And that's just for personal use, not the work or school obligations many have alluded to already.

The love-fest is actually over being able to use our Macs more, not Windows itself.

[cann11]

I agree with this and don't think that having widows on a mac is good for apple.

Apple came out with the ipod and itunes music store and despite more feature s and bells and wistles other players have not been able to beat them. Sony is having a really bad time lately.
so what is apple up to.

Well pulling from my own experience this past week with boot camp here are my observations.

1) I think apple has a firm grip on reality and that is most or at least many mac owners also have a windows pc, its unavoidable, there are just tasks you need to do for school or work that just can't be done on the mac because there is no direct port of the required application. Lets face it its a windows world right now.
More reality....

If your into software development like me than your replacing your equipment or adding to it about every 14 to 18 months or ealiier, it used to be about 3 years but now its getting shorter.

More reality...
At the same time other costs are also esculating, gas for the auto, colledge expenses , food just to name a few.

So when you need to make that buying decision again, do you buy the mac that you perfer because it is superier or do you buy the windows pc that you "NEED".

This is very true with regards to colledge, we were just discussing this a week ago, we were deciding which would be better for our student an ibook or a windows pc. boot camp made it easier for us to decide on the new ibooks that should be coming anytime soon.

The imac is the perfect computer for a dorm don't you think?
when apple says they are positioning boot camp at windows switchers they may be targeting the education market. Apple used to have a big piece of that market and this may help them to regain some of that.

Further, remember apple is an os and Hardware company.

PS: I've used a lot of dual boot setups in the past, dos/windows , windows 2000 / win98 osx/0s9 windows/linux
but this dual boot has to be the fastest , cleanest I've ever seen. Its not as convienent as a vm , but its not a big pain either.

In the last few hours I switched between the 2 environments 3 times. Thats amazing in my book.

[avensis087]

just ran BootCamp Beta, successfully installed Windows XP Professional...had no problems whatsoever. Thank you Apple!:D

mr

[avensis087]

btw...windows seems to look better on my iMac...maybe its just me. ;)

mr

[Platform]

btw...windows seems to look better on my iMac...maybe its just me. ;)

mr

I don't think you are alone...I mean it is on a Mac....shell look better...helps a % or 2 ;)

[harveypooka]

btw...windows seems to look better on my iMac...maybe its just me. ;)

My mate came round and said XP made my Mac look cheap! Although he changed his mind when I showed him Half Life 2!

[Abstract]

:eek:

So wait, this solution works with PPC macs too?

Sorry, but this question comes up way too often when the answer is blatantly blatantly obvious if you read the very 1st post of this thread, any of the replies, or the Apple/Boot Camp webpage itself.

If you just posted and asked, read read read.

[Super Dave]

It's like there's some kind of plague infecting everyone with a new found love for Windows. Quite frightening really.

I don't know about everyone else, but I will never use Boot Camp, but am still excited about it.

I won't use Bootcamp because:
1. I won't pirate software and don't already own Windows.
2. I won't give Microsoft money for any product other than Office, and if Apple puts a wysiwyg font menu and grammar checker in Pages, then I'm switching to iWork.
3. Why would I (a Mac user who stopped playing games in high school*) want to run Windows?

I am excited about Bootcamp because:
1. I think switchers who are afraid of not being able to…? will have nothing to fear.
2. Pretentious windows users (who aren't quite pretentious enough to use a Mac) will get Apple hardware to run Windows simply because Apple hardware is pretty and they can feel elite.
3. Apple can not sell less hardware because of this, only more. Which gives them more R&D dollars for my beautiful OS X.
4. People who switch and think they'll revert back to Windows, will stop switching to Windows about 3 weeks in as they get used to OS X and realize its superiority.

David:cool:

[whooleytoo]

My mate came round and said XP made my Mac look cheap! Although he changed his mind when I showed him Half Life 2!


:D

Funny, I thought the same, until I went out yesterday and bought Half Life 2, Far Cry and C&C Generals. I've hardly seen daylight since. Yowza.. so much for Macs not being gaming machines! <insert winkey smiley here>

I still feel a little dirty buying software off the PC shelves though... maybe if I just hid them among a few adult magazines, it wouldn't look so bad..

[bevo]

I put it on, installed it, installed xp and I'm happy now. I still do most of my work in osx, but its nice not having to boot up my laptop if I need to do something in windows.

[RitchieDeMan]

I put it on, installed it, installed xp and I'm happy now. I still do most of my work in osx, but its nice not having to boot up my laptop if I need to do something in windows.

I put it on, installed it started surfing , got a virus, got millions of pop ups, totally lost control with all the spyware and warning pop-ups and it froze up twice.

It's nice to have so that I can say "I've Got Windoze XP on my Mac", but that's as far as it goes.

Glad I can just restart and up comes my faithful Mac OS X.:)

*EDIT* To top it off I got the Blue Screen of death! I've never shouted at my computer before!

[^squirrel^]

I put it on, installed it started surfing , got a virus, got millions of pop ups, totally lost control with all the spyware and warning pop-ups and it froze up twice.

It's nice to have so that I can say "I've Got Windoze XP on my Mac", but that's as far as it goes.

Glad I can just restart and up comes my faithful Mac OS X.:)

Typical Mac fan boy response.

There are god know how many million Windows users out there that could easily surf the net and go as they would normally do on any machine and not get a virus.

If you don't use your common sense and take the necessary precautions for virus's and pop ups then that is your fault.

I have windows running on my AMD 64 machine that has been running for 9 months, not once have i been infected with a virus and i could probably count the crashes on one hand.

Can't wait to see how mac people handle a virus when the become widley available for their platform.

[RitchieDeMan]

[QUOTE=^squirrel^]Typical Mac fan boy response.
If you don't use your common sense and take the necessary precautions for virus's and pop ups then that is your fault.



But you see I don't have to go to all that bother with my Mac.... and yes after my few hours with Windows I certainly am a "Mac Fan Boy" :p

[Bosunsfate]

I put it on, installed it started surfing , got a virus, got millions of pop ups, totally lost control with all the spyware and warning pop-ups and it froze up twice.

It's nice to have so that I can say "I've Got Windoze XP on my Mac", but that's as far as it goes.

Glad I can just restart and up comes my faithful Mac OS X.:)

*EDIT* To top it off I got the Blue Screen of death! I've never shouted at my computer before!


I'm not a fan of windows, but what's your point? That windows sucks or that people who don't know what they are doing screw their computers up?

Your post reads like the later, which leads me to ask, why did you install Windows in the first place?:confused:

[janstett]

Loved your perspective from history. I always hated the non Apple ][ folks! In England they all loved the BBC micro (really they just couldn't afford an Apple).

I would disagree. Apple owners paid more for not a lot more of computer power and cloaked themselves in perceived brand superiority. I had access to Apple IIc and then IIe in a computer lab, I didn't find the II to be all that special or impressive. I had an Atari and one of my best friends had a C64; I felt they both offerred more features for far less money. Of course the kid in the computer club whose parents bought him Apple gear always thought he was better than everybody else. I think his name was Ross? No matter.

I didn't like the Apple II much -- although I did like the opening hood for expansion cards. I didn't like the low fidelity speaker being built in with no audio out, something Atari and Commodore did. I did write an edutainment game on the Apple II as a project, and I didn't find it to be so great. Let alone that the joystick was socketed into the motherboard, not a simple 9-pin Atari style... Anyway, old war wounds :) My point was that Apple guys then wrapped themselves in the Apple flag when the product wasn't neccessarily superior. The more things change, the more they stay the same :)

[janstett]

My solution to this is that I don't run those apps, if it's not made for a mac than it's not worth my time.

Sigh... Back when I was an OS/2 zealot I thought like this. Then I realized, the reason I have a computer to run useful and compelling applications, not to be a foot soldier in a holy war for a brand.

[shanmui1]

Just a thought, not sure if anyone else suggested it, will it be feasible for Apple to offer OEM WinXP for $100 at their stores as an accessory?

[(L)]

Re fears that development of Mac-native apps will diminish: no way. It will INCREASE because of Boot Camp.

Demand for native Mac apps will increase faster than ever now, and demand drives sales. Developers won't turn away now!

The only way demand for native Mac apps would decrease is if the number of Mac users willing to "settle for Windows" increases FASTER than the overall growth of the Mac OS X user base.

Settling for Windows means rebooting, giving up iLife and all your Mac apps, abandoning the security and ease of use of OS X, and--don't forget--PAYING for a copy of Windows. That's too much to settle for unless you have to. And then you'll do it only WHEN you have to. Not by choice. You will still demand OS X and OS X apps.

So I see the number of Mac users willing to settle for Windows being VERY small, increased only slightly by people now choosing Boot Camp Macs for their next "PC." (A great many of them will end up using Mac OS X even if that wasn't their intent at first.)

Meanwhile I see the overall Mac user base growing a LOT--and growing even more because Boot Camp gives switchers a reassuring safety net.

Result: more Mac OS X users, more Mac OS X apps. Not less.

Also, the smart buying plan for Windows Vista fans is now clear for 2006: You can't buy a Vista PC this year, so don't waste your money on XP, buy a PC that doesn't have Windows at all--a Mac--and enjoy it until Vista arrives :) You get the best of all worlds... and you may find you don't care so much about Vista after all...

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

Just imagine a switcher that bought Windows to run on his new Mac. OK, so now he installs all his old software. Windows continues to be a mysterious turdpile of software poo, and it comes time to upgrade the software. Half of them have better counterparts on the Mac platform, and the other half either don't or the Mac versions/counterparts reek, so he just upgrades to the windows version, or forgets about them. Coulpla years of this and developers will start switching quick. The larger the Mac Market Share, the quicker - but as long as there are people who prefer OS X, that will drive the devs, so dev switching is bound to happen.

[dogsbody]

Just a thought, not sure if anyone else suggested it, will it be feasible for Apple to offer OEM WinXP for $100 at their stores as an accessory?

That'd be fantastic. I can't believe how much Windows XP costs...

I suppose at the very least they might start selling it on the Apple Store online with some sort of discount (probably mail-in rebate).

[dogsbody]

...Windows continues to be a mysterious turdpile of software poo...

Can we nominate Macrumors members for awards? This is the funniest thing I've read all day - and considering how little work I've done and how much Internet surfing I've been doing, that says an awful lot!

Nice.

[sixstorm]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?

[whooleytoo]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

Just imagine a switcher that bought Windows to run on his new Mac. OK, so now he installs all his old software. Windows continues to be a mysterious turdpile of software poo, and it comes time to upgrade the software. Half of them have better counterparts on the Mac platform, and the other half either don't or the Mac versions/counterparts reek, so he just upgrades to the windows version, or forgets about them. Coulpla years of this and developers will start switching quick. The larger the Mac Market Share, the quicker - but as long as there are people who prefer OS X, that will drive the devs, so dev switching is bound to happen.

It's also possible the opposite will happen, and some Mac users who've installed Boot Camp & Windows on their Macs just for gaming, might find that the hassles of Windows are less than the hassles of rebooting back into OSX to check their mail and surf the net.

It's all just speculation at this point over how this will pan out, but one thing is certain - this was a very, very gutsy move by Apple.

[weldon]

Just a thought, not sure if anyone else suggested it, will it be feasible for Apple to offer OEM WinXP for $100 at their stores as an accessory?
Probably not because the license for the OEM version says you have to provide support if you sell to the end-user. Newegg.com and others get around this by maintaining that they are selling components to system builders.

[weldon]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?
If you read around a little bit you'll find the directions to create a SP2 install disc by taking your original install CD's and "slipstreaming" the SP2 updates with them to burn a new SP2 installer. Microsoft provides this feature mostly for corporate users that want to create a current install disc with all of the latest updates and hotfixes already in the install package. Of course, you can take advantage of this as well and legally create a SP2 install using your original discs.

[PCMacUser]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?
Ha ha, WHOA! That's the first time I've heard someone complaining in these forums that XP has too much anti-virus, firewall and security!

[Peace]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?


Why would any software company or hardware company increase support for an older version of an O/S ?

[whooleytoo]

Ha ha, WHOA! That's the first time I've heard someone complaining in these forums that XP has too much anti-virus, firewall and security!

Probably 'cos all the rest can't even get onto the Internet to complain! ;)

[k3nx]

Typical Mac fan boy response.

Isn't this a Mac Fanboy/girl website - duh!

[plinden]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?
I guess I agree with you about SP2, I didn't install until our IT dept made us all "upgrade", but you're stuck with using it now. The best thing to do is to slipstream an SP2 CDROM.

Do you have access to a Windows PC? If so, download nlite from www.nliteos.com. It's the easiest way I found for slipstreaming an SP2 disk. It creates a bootable ISO.

Or if you don't have access to a PC, you might be able to do it (again with nlite) using an earlier version of Win XP in a Parallels VM ... but I haven't done that and I'm not sure about the disk burning ability, since there are still problems with CDROM drives.

If anyone can figure out a way of getting files off a Parallels VM onto the Mac, you could burn the iso using the Mac OS disk utility.

[avensis087]

i purchased a set of discs from my school's computing/software department. one disc being M$ Windows XP Professional and the other disc being Windows XP Professional x64 edition. i've already gone through boot camp and loaded xp professional on my imac and it worked flawlessly. i'm curious if anybody knows any advantages/disadvantages/possibilities of being able to upgrade to the x64 edition? even possible? thanks.

mr

[mac jones]

What is absolutely going to freak me out is that now these boards will be both for Windows and OSX.....forever

LOL

[ManchesterTrix]

i purchased a set of discs from my school's computing/software department. one disc being M$ Windows XP Professional and the other disc being Windows XP Professional x64 edition. i've already gone through boot camp and loaded xp professional on my imac and it worked flawlessly. i'm curious if anybody knows any advantages/disadvantages/possibilities of being able to upgrade to the x64 edition? even possible? thanks.

mr

The current Intel Macs don't have 64 bit chips.

[Abu Reno]

Just installed Windows XP SP2 on my IMAC and can't connect to the internet. Anyone have this problem. I called my local ISP and told me that I'm missing software? How could that be.:confused:

[Bosunsfate]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?

Yea, I know...I'm totally bummed too. I wanted to install Win95 so I could surf the web.....:p

[contoursvt]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?

Damn you're right. All those bad things like integrated firewall features that you can enable or disable if you wish, or security that watches to ensure your antivirus software is not somehow comprimised. Also who wants more security built into IE. Sure as hell not me. Also I dont want my 60Mhz computer to slow down because of all these giant resource hungry services. :rolleyes:

PS. I'm a PC user and I can tell you that SP2 is the single biggest improvement to XP to ever come about. If your system sucks that bad that you feel a slowdown, then you have other problems to worry about like a hardware upgrade.

[Collin973]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?


There was a post early I read in this forum (page 11 or so) that had a way to make a legitimate copy of your Windows XP disc and add SP2 to it so it'll work with BootCamp.

Here's the website to make your Windows XP disc into an SP2 disc:
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html

--CP

[janstett]

i purchased a set of discs from my school's computing/software department. one disc being M$ Windows XP Professional and the other disc being Windows XP Professional x64 edition. i've already gone through boot camp and loaded xp professional on my imac and it worked flawlessly. i'm curious if anybody knows any advantages/disadvantages/possibilities of being able to upgrade to the x64 edition? even possible? thanks.

mr

Quick primer on 64-bit Windows.

There are two versions -- one for Itanium (Intel's earliest 64-bit processors) and one for AMD 64 and newer Intel 64-bit chips. The future is the latter and extensions shared by both Intel and AMD.

The 64-bit chips will happily run 32-bit operating systems. However, you can go to a 64-bit XP if you wish. There are a few benefits and many drawbacks.

The benefits are that you can run 64-bit applications, naturally (of which there are very few). You can also run 32-bit applications through WoW64 (Windows-On-Windows, the same way NT/XP ran 16-bit applications in a 32-bit OS). The 64-bit processors are capable of executing 32-bit code natively. So 32-bit apps run pretty well on the 64-bit OS. The big drawback is that you need 64-bit drivers for the OS, so if you're on the hardware bleeding edge or have interesting hardware, you may be stuck waiting for drivers.

[janstett]

PS. I'm a PC user and I can tell you that SP2 is the single biggest improvement to XP to ever come about. If your system sucks that bad that you feel a slowdown, then you have other problems to worry about like a hardware upgrade.

Even Microsoft admits SP2 is not optimized due to the latticework of patches and hotfixes; SP2 performs more poorly than the original release of XP on the same hardware.

[BenRoethig]

Even Microsoft admits SP2 is not optimized due to the latticework of patches and hotfixes; SP2 performs more poorly than the original release of XP on the same hardware.

But from expirience, it's a lot more stable than earlier releases.

[janstett]

But from expirience, it's a lot more stable than earlier releases.

Stable and fast, pick one.

[BenRoethig]

I'd take stable over fast anyday. Things don't get down if you're constantly doing upkeep.

[Peace]

An ugly thought just came to me...

I'm wondering if we will see Bill Gates at the WWDC in August talking with Steve about dual-booting Windows and OS X..



just a thought mind you ;)

[~Shard~]

An ugly thought just came to me...

I'm wondering if we will see Bill Gates at the WWDC in August talking with Steve about dual-booting Windows and OS X..



just a thought mind you ;)

We have seen Mr. Gates at a Jobs keynote before, so never say never... ;)

[Gregte]

I mean I can see a few lazy developers saying "why bother making a Mac version, they can run windows now anyway."

Those "lazy developers" will be out of work if they do not keep up with the Mac OS. As soon as enough windoze folks try out OS X (due to boot camp) all software developers will be very interested in the Mac platform (platform of the future). Jobs owns the personal computer market if he wants it. It is just a matter of how much of it he wants to take.

[tonyl]

It's really cool! Going to buy some apple stocks

[tivoboy]

We have seen Mr. Gates at a Jobs keynote before, so never say never... ;)


I don't think he was actually there, it was a video conference, no?

[~Shard~]

I don't think he was actually there, it was a video conference, no?

Yes, that's what I meant - we've seen him at an event before... ;)

[contoursvt]

Stable and fast, pick one.

I'll take both thank you since I dont find SP2 any slower (not even a bit) over SP1 when the firewall feature is disabled. If you enable it, sure there will be a slight performance hit but now you're asking it to do something sp1 was not doing.

[Onkelskrue]

Unless I keep a keen eye on the machine when I reboot and intefere, it will boot up windows. I like the possiblility, but that it does it automatically drives me nuts.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Lars

[ManchesterTrix]

Unless I keep a keen eye on the machine when I reboot and intefere, it will boot up windows. I like the possiblility, but that it does it automatically drives me nuts.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Lars

You have to use the Startup Disk preference pane to permenantly set a startup disk. Holding down option and selecting a drive only boots that drive for that time.

[DKZ]

But from expirience, it's a lot more stable than earlier releases.

Hardly, I've never updated to SP2, and I've never heard any one really happy with it. It's slower and do you really need Windows to monitor your virus program? Not really.. My comp runs with purely free security tools, and it run as good as any windows machine, which of course isn't all that great but hey its doing the best it can.

But it does seem like you have to get over it in this case. Why anyone would want to disfigure a Macbook with that ugly monster of a OS is beyond me, but hey have your fun.

[davey-nb]

Well, I finally got my Intel iMac and found out that Boot Camp only works with XP with SP2. WTF Apple? Not only is that retarded but SP2 sucks. It's a system hog!!! All that anti-virus, firewall and security center stuff is just a joke. Anyways, I have 2 versions of XP and I guess I can't install it cuz they don't have SP2 . . . what a let down. Anyone know if they will increase support later?
Are you really that clueless??
I don't use Windows and I only read a few articles about Boot Camp but even I knew it required XP and SP2.
Don't blame Apple for not supporting some lame old Microsoft OS you own.
This is new beta software for 2006.
GOI.
(Get Over It)
and Deal With It! (TM)

[chatin]

Boot Camp is fantastic!!

1) Partitions any size you want.
2) Simple to use.
3) I love the cute little XP folder as a Tiger startup disk option!

The one saving grace of a recent intel mac mini upgrade!!

:D

[Coyote2006]

Is it possible to run WinXP and MACOS X at the same time using Boot Camp?

Or do I have to shut down MacOSX first and reboot with WinXP partition to use Windows?

[imacintel]

I have done this and works completely fine. I installed Microsoft Flight Simulator(RAM HOG!) and it works quite well. Works better on this than previous exxxpeee computers. :)

[imacintel]

Is it possible to run WinXP and MACOS X at the same time using Boot Camp?

Or do I have to shut down MacOSX first and reboot with WinXP partition to use Windows?
sorry, but i have no say no because its true

[Coyote2006]

sorry, but i have no say no because its true

What? :confused: :D

[imacintel]

What? :confused: :D

For the advanced minded:

You have to reboot to choose between OS

Simple minded:
No

[Coyote2006]

For the advanced minded:

You have to reboot to choose between OS

Simple minded:
No

That's what I expected.


I mean the reboot ...







;) thx m8

[supremedesigner]

Ok I am a bit confused right now. According to this http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=14389 here what they said "He speculates that when Boot Camp ships as part of Mac OS X 10.5, it will offer full virtualization, so users will not need to reboot their machines to move between operating systems.":confused: What's going on now?!

[tawollen]

Now that there is bootcamp, and Apple seems to be allowing more windows ~things~, do you think they will ever put a 2button trackpad into the laptops? Using a desktop isn't a problem, but so much on windows seems to want to have that other button. As much as I would love to, I can't see using a MacBook pro as my main computer if I need to run windows a lot.

Thoughts?

[tawollen]

Woops, accidently repllied to the wrong thread...

I am not sure if this has been brought up, if so I haven't seen it.

Now that there is bootcamp, and Apple seems to be allowing more windows ~things~, do you think they will ever put a 2button trackpad into the laptops? Using a desktop isn't a problem, but so much on windows seems to want to have that other button. As much as I would love to, I can't see using a MacBook pro as my main computer if I need to run windows a lot.

Thoughts?

[Coyote2006]

Ok I am a bit confused right now. According to this http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=14389 here what they said "He speculates that when Boot Camp ships as part of Mac OS X 10.5, it will offer full virtualization, so users will not need to reboot their machines to move between operating systems.":confused: What's going on now?!

This would make me buy a MacBookPro. Since I need to use MacOSX AND WinXP all the time and the MacBookPro ist fast enough for grafics, webprogramming and gaming (of course :) ).

Finally getting rid of two machines under my desk and having my complete office with me. Sounds nice.

[Coyote2006]

Woops, accidently repllied to the wrong thread...

I am not sure if this has been brought up, if so I haven't seen it.

Now that there is bootcamp, and Apple seems to be allowing more windows ~things~, do you think they will ever put a 2button trackpad into the laptops? Using a desktop isn't a problem, but so much on windows seems to want to have that other button. As much as I would love to, I can't see using a MacBook pro as my main computer if I need to run windows a lot.

Thoughts?

Replace the harddrive to a 7200rpm one and you have a really fast "Windows" machine. And buying a mouse will solve the other problem too...

;)

[Doctor Q]

When InformationWeek magazine reported on Bootcamp in early May, they totally botched the explanation.

Among the things they said in their article (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=184429950), which is still unchanged on their web site:Running Windows on the Mac may be sport for some, but it's not likely to be all that attractive to the business world. For one thing, Boot Camp provides a new way for Windows viruses to creep inside the firewall. Corporate PCs have Windows antivirus programs installed. Macs don't.They also quote an IT professional who speculates that it is a "workaround, allowing some parts of Windows XP to function and others to partially function or malfunction."

I could only laugh when I first read that and imagined I'd see a retraction or correction in the next issue.

Well, sort of. In a subsequent issue, a letter to the editor (http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187001863) gives them their comeuppance, pointing out that it's a full version of Windows installed by the user, which can include all the usual antivirus software, and that it's a full installation of Windows in a separate partition, not a portion of Windows installed within Mac OS.

The faulty original article is still on their website, misleading mistakes and all.