IDG World Expo's Greco... Quitting

[MacRumors]

Boston Globe Online (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/036/business/IDG_World_Expo_s_Greco_reportedly_quitting+.shtml) reports that Charlie Greco is looking to quit from his current position:

In an electronic mail bulletin to its subscribers, Tradeshow Week magazine reported that Charlie Greco is leaving Framingham-based IDG World Expo for another position in the event management industry, and that IDG has begun seeking a replacement.

Greco has been highly public (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020823235356.shtml) about his plans to move the Summer MacWorld back to Boston. In October, there were reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021008110429.shtml) that the move to Boston was a done deal...

Apple then announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021017120834.shtml) that it would not be participating in a Boston MacWorld. Most recent indications are that Apple and IDG are still in negotiations about future MacWorlds. It is unclear if Greco's rumored resignation is related to these matters.

[MacCoaster]

Interesting. I wonder what'll happen without him and Apple.

BTW, it's quitting not quiting. :p

[moby1]

Who cares who resigned or what the deal is.
Apple & IDG are capable of resolving this.

Let's just get this thing on!

[marcsiry]

I'll keep the Expo in New york City, since i just moved here in September- it would be a bummer to have to hike up to Boston.

Steve Jobs can stay at my house when he's in town for the show- Apple's board should appreciate the savings over the Waldorf-Astoria. I promise not to peek in his bags at the "one more thing" while he's asleep!

I'll even let him use my bus pass to get to Javits.

Prepare for the new era of Apple/MacWorld co-operation!

[shadowfax]

i remember reading about this awhile back... why does Apple care about this so much? do they have an attachment to new york? it doesn't seem like it should matter to them whether it's in NYC or Boston. anyone know why?

[marcsiry]

Since there's so much media here (print and broadcast) events held in NYC get a lot more coverage in mainstream US media than they do elsewhere (except possibly Los Angeles).

It leverages their expenditure into more PR and advertising than they would get in Boston (nice place, but relatively small compared to NYC).

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by marcsiry
Since there's so much media here (print and broadcast) events held in NYC get a lot more coverage in mainstream US media than they do elsewhere (except possibly Los Angeles).

It leverages their expenditure into more PR and advertising than they would get in Boston (nice place, but relatively small compared to NYC).

that makes sense.

i think, if it saves apple money for the same amount of publicity, that the Boston folks should drive to NY instead of vice versa. that would be a waste of time. as a TX resident, i can't go, and if i could, it wouldn't matter which city it was in anyway.

[badika]

It would make sense for Apple to participate in NY with such a press AND video market presence there. The trade could get convenient workshops and product demos. But, who knows how much money Apple really needs to save to pay for that Gulfstream maintenance

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by badika
It would make sense for Apple to participate in NY with such a press AND video market presence there. The trade could get convenient workshops and product demos. But, who knows how much money Apple really needs to save to pay for that Gulfstream maintenance

there's no way in hell quark express will be out by then. they're just running the alphas now!

it'll be more like, apple will debut PMac 970s and Quark will realize what complete idiots they were for not believing in OS X.


500th post!

[Skandranon]

Originally posted by Macrumors
It is unclear if Greco's rumored resignation is related to these matters.

Steve Jobs said, "Charlie's finished in this town."

Seems pretty clear to me. :D

[.a]

javits convention center/nyc: expensive, good image

boston: less expensive, but it's just not new york ...

the expo should stay at nyc! it's perfect for apple - nyc has such a good image worldwide - i would really like to life there, but it looks like i am stuck in zuerich/switzerland (though a nice place, too)

hey marcsiry, congrats to move to nyc! how is real life there? i just know nyc from a few short vacations and from the macexpo-keynote-live-streaming :)

.a

[3777]

Originally posted by marcsiry
[B]I think i'll apply for his job.


I was just thinking the exact same thing.:D

[kansaigaijin]

read somewhere else that IDG had file for chapter 11.

[robbents99]

I remember going to Boston for AppleFest a looooong time ago and see Lord British there showing off one of the Ultima Games. It'd be cool to go and see a MacBoston sometime.

[dethl]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
read somewhere else that IDG had file for chapter 11.

Umm, it was ComDex that filed for chapter 11, not IDG. Unless something else has happened?

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Shadowfax


that makes sense.

i think, if it saves apple money for the same amount of publicity, that the Boston folks should drive to NY instead of vice versa. that would be a waste of time. as a TX resident, i can't go, and if i could, it wouldn't matter which city it was in anyway.

Not to mention the number of people that live within 1 hour of NYC is many millions more than Boston.

[Dwarf Sidious]

Coupla things:

The parent of Comdex is Key3Media. They have indeed filed for bankruptcy. There have been complaints that Comdex has become a hodgepodge of technology vendors which makes it difficult for some visitors to learn what they need.

The same day, Jupiter Research (like a phoenix, this company is) announces that they'll host a replacement of sorts. Key3's response that the Comdex brand will win out has some merit.

IDG's Greco has, in fact, said he'll resign. I don't blame him. Besides the fact that recent negotiations with Apple must have been a pain, the conference industry is hardly the place to be right now given the economy and tight budgets overall.

One interesting thing is that this month's Macworld has as one of its first ads a promotion of Macworld for the Summer, to be located in New York. I think it's a done deal.

[julzmon]

I love NYC and can't see the expo anywhere else. I love NYC it's such a nice place to be. Although I do wish I could live in Zurich for a while so I can meet Boris Blank from YELLO :)

Originally posted by .a
javits convention center/nyc: expensive, good image

boston: less expensive, but it's just not new york ...

the expo should stay at nyc! it's perfect for apple - nyc has such a good image worldwide - i would really like to life there, but it looks like i am stuck in zuerich/switzerland (though a nice place, too)

hey marcsiry, congrats to move to nyc! how is real life there? i just know nyc from a few short vacations and from the macexpo-keynote-live-streaming :)

.a

[Pellucidar]

NYC may be a good place for publicity, but Boston is the IT center of the Northeast. If Apple wants to reach technical people, the move to Boston would be a good one. I was certainly looking forward to it - I'm not about to hike down to NYC just for the PR spin.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Pellucidar
NYC may be a good place for publicity, but Boston is the IT center of the Northeast. If Apple wants to reach technical people, the move to Boston would be a good one. I was certainly looking forward to it - I'm not about to hike down to NYC just for the PR spin.

While i am all for getting the IT crowd into the game, i think it's more important to seek the larger user base, which is more accessible from New York, apparently.

how long is it to NYC from Boston?

here in austin, TX, most of the tech stuff is in Houston and Dallas, both ≈3 hours away. it sucks.

[PeteyNice]

Boston to NYC is a 1 hr shuttle flight, 3.5-4 hour (at least) drive or a 3.5-4.5 hour train ride. The two cities are close but not *that* close. I hope they do keep it in NYC since then I could actually go. :)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by PeteyNice
Boston to NYC is a 1 hr shuttle flight, 3.5-4 hour (at least) drive or a 3.5-4.5 hour train ride. The two cities are close but not *that* close. I hope they do keep it in NYC since then I could actually go. :)

oh well. at least you actually have an apple store in Boston! :rolleyes: ;)

[timbloom]

This is quite old news, and not particularly interesting, isn't that what page 2 is for?

[timbloom]

Personally I agree that it should stay in NYC. There is nothing I want to do in Boston, but NYC on the other hand is filled with tons of things for attendees to do. You don't just go to the show, you are also a tourist.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by timbloom
This is quite old news, and not particularly interesting, isn't that what page 2 is for?

not polite to double post for no reason usually, with quoting 2 different people being one of the exceptions. if you want to concatenate another comment to your post, you can click the "edit" button (on your posts only of course).

page 2 is for less reliable stuff, mostly, from what i understand. "of lesser interest" too, but it's still a judgment call, i found this of plenty of interest, personally.

[kansaigaijin]

I stand corrected. funny that it is the big "PC" show that went under?

[Xerov]

I think macworld needs to stay in NYC after all its "The Big Apple"

[tazznb]

To add to all the others in my own silly way Apple has to stay in NYC.

You still want to know why you say....???

Duuuuuuhhh!! Apple.... Big Apple!!

See how nice that sounds together.:D

[GeneR]

Originally posted by Xerov
I think macworld needs to stay in NYC after all its "The Big Apple"

I really can't figure why they'd want to move to Boston anyway except if IDG wanted to save money.

But what's the benefit for Apple to be in Boston? Sounded like such a short-sighted idea. From a publicity standpoint, I could only think that it would hurt Apple's image to move to Boston.

In a way, to move it to Boston might communicate the idea that Apple's technology isn't professional enough/cosmopolitan enough to compete with the "big boys"...since so much business is in NYC. This would run counter to Apple's efforts to be taken seriously in the corporate world.

Just doesn't make sense who'd come up with that lamebrain idea.

Oh, that's right. Maybe it was someone at IDG... or someone who used to be at IDG...
hmmm....

:D

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by GeneR

In a way, to move it to Boston might communicate the idea that Apple's technology isn't professional enough/cosmopolitan enough to compete with the "big boys"...since so much business is in NYC. This would run counter to Apple's efforts to be taken seriously in the corporate world.

:D

i agree with everything but this. you're really over analyzing, or assuming everyone else will. i think boston would be fine, except NYC is SO MUCH better in literally every way.

[elo]

Everyone here is spectacularly wrong. Here's what really happened:

Apple decided after last summer's MacWorld NY that it wanted out of the East Coast convention altogether. There were five reasons: First, Javits is mind-bogglingly expensive, well more than bunches of television ads. Second, the 6-months interval locks Apple into a product release schedule that is unhealthy for its development. Third, and closely related, Jobs felt that the July MacWorld was a failure, and hardly worth the expense if it gives Apple a black eye anyway. Fourth, the convention model is antiquated since customers and media sources can easily see product releases on the internet whether they happen at a convention or not. And fifth, the Apple Stores could collectively hold an "event" that would serve the basic purpose of a convention, but would be truly national (and soon, international) in scope.

The problem with getting out of the convention was Apple's contractual obligation to IDC. (It could stop doing MacWorlds altogether, but can't pick some conventions over others.) Their solution was sheer genius: Cheerfully encourage IDC to create a new convention in Boston, then make sure the convention is doomed by refusing to participate. (Though I don't know this part to a certainty, the old contract was likely San Francisco and New York specific). Because IDC will already have expended considerable capital (financial and political) in moving to Boston, it simply can't afford to go back to NY, thus eliminating the East Coast convention and with it, Apple's legal obligation.

Greco was probably forced out, for making the critical error: failing to get Apple to sign on the dotted line before making new deals in Boston. Had he realized Apple's red-herrring strategy or even been more careful, he would have survived.

There's more to come with this story (Look for Apple at another high-profile event within the next two years).

elo

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by elo
Everyone here is spectacularly wrong. Here's what really happened:

Apple decided after last summer's MacWorld NY that it wanted out of the East Coast convention altogether. There were five reasons: First, Javits is mind-bogglingly expensive, well more than bunches of television ads. Second, the 6-months interval locks Apple into a product release schedule that is unhealthy for its development. Third, and closely related, Jobs felt that the July MacWorld was a failure, and hardly worth the expense if it gives Apple a black eye anyway. Fourth, the convention model is antiquated since customers and media sources can easily see product releases on the internet whether they happen at a convention or not. And fifth, the Apple Stores could collectively hold an "event" that would serve the basic purpose of a convention, but would be truly national (and soon, international) in scope.

The problem with getting out of the convention was Apple's contractual obligation to IDC. (It could stop doing MacWorlds altogether, but can't pick some conventions over others.) Their solution was sheer genius: Cheerfully encourage IDC to create a new convention in Boston, then make sure the convention is doomed by refusing to participate. (Though I don't know this part to a certainty, the old contract was likely San Francisco and New York specific). Because IDC will already have expended considerable capital (financial and political) in moving to Boston, it simply can't afford to go back to NY, thus eliminating the East Coast convention and with it, Apple's legal obligation.

Greco was probably forced out, for making the critical error: failing to get Apple to sign on the dotted line before making new deals in Boston. Had he realized Apple's red-herrring strategy or even been more careful, he would have survived.

There's more to come with this story (Look for Apple at another high-profile event within the next two years).

elo

but what about MWSF? that was one of the coolest product releases ever, lol. and it was a month ago today--at a macworld. i don't see how they are so anxious to get out. sure, i have heard their rhetoric about doing so, but that doesn't seem to be how they acted in some critical places.

[GeneR]

Originally posted by elo
Everyone here is spectacularly wrong. Here's what really happened:

Apple decided after last summer's MacWorld NY that it wanted out of the East Coast convention altogether. There were five reasons: First, Javits is mind-bogglingly expensive, well more than bunches of television ads. Second, the 6-months interval locks Apple into a product release schedule that is unhealthy for its development. Third, and closely related, Jobs felt that the July MacWorld was a failure, and hardly worth the expense if it gives Apple a black eye anyway. Fourth, the convention model is antiquated since customers and media sources can easily see product releases on the internet whether they happen at a convention or not. And fifth, the Apple Stores could collectively hold an "event" that would serve the basic purpose of a convention, but would be truly national (and soon, international) in scope.

The problem with getting out of the convention was Apple's contractual obligation to IDC. (It could stop doing MacWorlds altogether, but can't pick some conventions over others.) Their solution was sheer genius: Cheerfully encourage IDC to create a new convention in Boston, then make sure the convention is doomed by refusing to participate. (Though I don't know this part to a certainty, the old contract was likely San Francisco and New York specific). Because IDC will already have expended considerable capital (financial and political) in moving to Boston, it simply can't afford to go back to NY, thus eliminating the East Coast convention and with it, Apple's legal obligation.

Greco was probably forced out, for making the critical error: failing to get Apple to sign on the dotted line before making new deals in Boston. Had he realized Apple's red-herrring strategy or even been more careful, he would have survived.

There's more to come with this story (Look for Apple at another high-profile event within the next two years).

elo

Who knows? It makes sense. But then throw a convincing argument here or there and a lot of people will agree. I guess it brings me back to square one: to reserve judgment and to admit ignorance on the subject. Thanks. This was very thoughtful information. Never knew my foot tasted so good! lol


:D

[Wry Cooter]

Once upon a time, there was a similar reaction when summer MacExpo moved from Boston, where it had been for years, to New York. Those that lived close to Boston bitched and moaned about a three and a half hour drive to NYC, etc...

After all Boston was the center of the Education Market and IT, bla bla bla. What is this New York City place you keep talking about?

But there were good reasons to move to NYC other than the Big Dig making a mess of Beantown.

After the Big Dig helped kill Boston as a convention market, I'm sure the rates offered to IDG were very enticing.

There are other reasons why both MacExpos are not necessarily the best thing for business.

Competition from other tech oriented must see conventions- I think both expos are regularly scheduled up against NAMM, CES, or COMDEX, maybe E3.

Timing in relation to selling season, which for Apple means an expo is immediately AFTER that season has ended. Christmas and School buying are very deadline oriented. You make a big show right after the deadline, you are offering too little too late. For the other big tech conventions, not geared nearly as much towards the end customer- the general populace, as towards the middlemen-retail buyers, if you were to consider the expo as EARLY rather than late, that lead time doesn't kill current sales for CES NAMM or COMDEX potential end customers, it merely primes the middlemen to plan their budget.