Does Boot Camp mark the first steps of a new Apple war using Gaming as the start?

[Haoshiro]

Preface: This thread and the posts within should be considered pure speculation and hypothesis, describing possibilities that may never occur; not prophecy!

After posting (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2313313#post2313313) about how we think of a PC vs a Mac it got me to thinking...

With the release of Boot Camp beta and all that it entails, windows gaming on our macs at the forefront, do you think we are seeing the beginning of a new Apple War or Apple's White Flag?

To explain, let me present two opposing scenarios:

Scenario #1: Apple intends to fight the 'PC Market', and Windows specifically, very aggressively. They release the Boot Camp beta as an early scout. They then launch Leopard with integrated Boot Camp as a first strike. The intention being to push anyone on the fence, because of either certain Windows-specific apps or games, off and onto a new Mac purchase.

They collect the data, see how it went and prepare the next attack. This could range from integrated virtualisation to signing deals with pc manufacturers to release OS X machines or dual-booting machines. The next logical step, if not already done in Leopard is the virtualization. It would offer customers easy access to those needed windows-specific apps with no need of a reboot. Apps like AutoCAD, Solitare, etc.

Along with this would be new PowerMacs backed by several hardware manufacturers supplying top-end graphics cards and other cards for exapansion.

The point of this scenario is that Apple would be waging war with Microsoft, attacking directly with intention of striking the mortal blow to Windows or at least get on equal footing with them.

Scenario #2: The "White Flag", Apple is easing the transition to Microsoft Windows. By switching to Intel in a few years time most of their customer base will not only be running Intel Macs with Leopard they will have machines that work with Windows flawlessly. This will allow Apple to essentially drop OS X and allow Mac owners and easy transition.

Why would the do this? Personally I don't think they would ever do this but I can think of some reasons:

a) Apple is joining Microsoft to make a joint OS with the strengths and compatibility of both systems.
b) They are going to focus on hardware and move their software to being cross-platform even moreso then they currently do with iTunes/QuickTime.

One or both of these would work but they work best together. Apple would continue to create great hardware but likely with less focus on computers and more with addon devices and devices like the iPod, etc.

In Closing... Obviously neither of these may happen or if they did it could take on a very different shape. But what does everyone here think? Could there be some truth to this... is either scenario possible, plausible, or even likely?

If so, which scenario would you be most likely to believe? Myself, I'd go with something like Scenario #1 but honestly neither would "surprise" me.

[Symtex]

I think it's an inevitable transition that would lead Apple to financial security. Even though I love Mac OS X, Microsoft has already a very strong hold on the pc market and I don't think any company is strong enough to compete in the OS market. I think Steve Jobs understand that sacrifice Apple needs to make in order to stay at flow in the pc market. Switching to Intel was only the first step.

[aloofman]

I prefer Scenario #3: Apple is providing a relatively cheap and easy way to entice Windows users who can still use the Apple hardware for their current Windows apps, and for people who are intrigued by Macs but know they need a PC too. Jobs is confident that people who can compare OS X and XP on the same computer will choose OS X for most things. It's basically a switcher campaign in disguise.

[illegalprelude]

I prefer Scenario #3: Apple is providing a relatively cheap and easy way to entice Windows users who can still use the Apple hardware for their current Windows apps, and for people who are intrigued by Macs but know they need a PC too. Jobs is confident that people who can compare OS X and XP on the same computer will choose OS X for most things. It's basically a switcher campaign in disguise.

thats exactly what it is.

You can go up and you can go down but regardless, Macs suck for games. Its the bottom line. Dosent matter that we can use boot camp and so forth. You just cannot build a gaming Mac while you can build a gaming PC. Apple isnt trying to go after gamers. Their not saying, we can be like Alien Ware..kinda.

This is just for the people who really like some of the things windows offers, including games but arent too hardcore.

[GFLPraxis]

thats exactly what it is.

You can go up and you can go down but regardless, Macs suck for games. Its the bottom line. Dosent matter that we can use boot camp and so forth. You just cannot build a gaming Mac while you can build a gaming PC. Apple isnt trying to go after gamers. Their not saying, we can be like Alien Ware..kinda.

This is just for the people who really like some of the things windows offers, including games but arent too hardcore.

So what if you can't build a gaming Mac? You can still buy one that performs EXTREMELY well on modern games. ESPECIALLY the laptops; you can't build a gaming PC laptop either, and the Mac outperforms all the Windows laptops on the market.

[LagunaSol]

No way is this some sort of effort to combine forces with Microsoft on a shared OS. That's just nutty. Nor are they going to drop OS X and standardize on Windows (sorry, Dvorak).

This is just a carrot to dangle in front of the hungry Windows masses. Get them to try our side out, and let the great hardware/software do the rest.

I'm hoping Apple goes gunning for the gamer market. Throw a killer 3D card in an iMac and you have the ultimate LAN party box. Forget carting towers and separate displays around.

I think the Mac game market may sputter for a bit, but ultimately will take off as marketshare grows.

[Haoshiro]

So it sounds like the consensus so far is that no Apple is not going to try to wage a war with Microsoft, nor will they team up with them.

Sure, this does work as a "switch" campaign, I'm just asking if anyone thinks it could be more then that.

Personally I think Windows is weaker then ever right now. MS has been spending a lot of time and money on Xbox, Vista continues to get delayed, and public perception of Windows really isn't that great anyway.

Why wouldn't Apple march ahead with a more aggressive campaign? Why wouldn't they strike while the beast is sleeping?

Switching to Intel could have been the first steps of Apple opening their superior OS to the general computing public. If not that, something a but more subversive. Why not? Because Apple is content with being the underdog and enjoy the position they are in now?

Like I said, it's all speculation... but it doesn't seem completely unplausible... heck, Boot Camp exists... and that shocked a lot of people already. Nobody thinks we'll get another shocker?

[LagunaSol]

So it sounds like the consensus so far is that no Apple is not going to try to wage a war with Microsoft, nor will they team up with them.

Actually, I think they is they will wage war against MS, but right now it's just just in the "covert actions" stage. I don't think there's any question that this Intel switch will eventually lead to a "shock and awe" blitzkrieg at some point.

Vista delays (and Microsoft's insistence on attacking every possible market in technology, mastering none of them), consumer weariness of Windows, exploding security problems, the growing push for open standards in office computing, the smashing success of the iPod and Apple's foray into digital entertainment delivery, continued refinement of OS X, the switch to Intel...all signs point to a chance for a mortal strike at the belly of the Beast.

Steve Jobs wants to reclaim what was stolen from him by Gates and the Weasel Pack many years ago. He wants Apple in its rightful place at the head of the personal computing world. It's the Return of the King. As Gandalf said, "I come to you at the turn of the tide." The tide is turning.

[illegalprelude]

So what if you can't build a gaming Mac? You can still buy one that performs EXTREMELY well on modern games. ESPECIALLY the laptops; you can't build a gaming PC laptop either, and the Mac outperforms all the Windows laptops on the market.

wait are you serious? Extremely well is an opinion is it not? To those who build a gaming PC, they wanna run every game on top setting. I built my gaming PC to play Doom 3 On Ultra High. Not High or Normal.

back to my are you serious. Seriously? You cant build gaming laptops? hhmm. Im gonna have to go have a word with Alienware. Lying bastards told me I could.

[Haoshiro]

back to my are you serious. Seriously? You cant build gaming laptops? hhmm. Im gonna have to go have a word with Alienware. Lying bastards told me I could.

I believe he means you can't! :D And by that he meant the general public.

[kingcrowing]

wait are you serious? Extremely well is an opinion is it not? To those who build a gaming PC, they wanna run every game on top setting. I built my gaming PC to play Doom 3 On Ultra High. Not High or Normal.

back to my are you serious. Seriously? You cant build gaming laptops? hhmm. Im gonna have to go have a word with Alienware. Lying bastards told me I could.

what he meant was you cant build a gaming laptop from scratch, I guess Asus has tried it, without too much success. but Alienware is not too different from anywhere else, the top end alienware laptop is not leaps and bounds above the Dell XPS (espically not for long as Dell owns them now) but the high end alienwares are now soooo huge and hideous (who the hell needs DUAL optical drives stacked ontop of eachother on a laptop???) and the MBP is great looking and from what I've heard it runs games such as Oblivion very well on high settings

[GFLPraxis]

back to my are you serious. Seriously? You cant build gaming laptops? hhmm. Im gonna have to go have a word with Alienware. Lying bastards told me I could.

You can't. You can pay Alienware to use certain parts they give you options for, but they charge a higher premium than Apple does!

[illegalprelude]

what he meant was you cant build a gaming laptop from scratch, I guess Asus has tried it, without too much success. but Alienware is not too different from anywhere else, the top end alienware laptop is not leaps and bounds above the Dell XPS (espically not for long as Dell owns them now) but the high end alienwares are now soooo huge and hideous (who the hell needs DUAL optical drives stacked ontop of eachother on a laptop???) and the MBP is great looking and from what I've heard it runs games such as Oblivion very well on high settings

well you take what you can get right? Its like Cellphones, they started weak and huge and look at them now. Laptops in the same progression. if you want alot of power, it cant be crammed in yet.

Please, no offence, Im an Apple user and I can admit Alienware would rape a MBP. Just take the Mac Elite out of you for a sec and go compare stats for yourself.

[GFLPraxis]

Please, no offence, Im an Apple user and I can admit Alienware would rape a MBP. Just take the Mac Elite out of you for a sec and go compare stats for yourself.

Don't delude yourself. Have you seen the benchmarks? The MacBook Pro is the fastest Windows laptop on the market and will crush the Alienware (which is single core).

However, the highest end Alienware laptops (approaching $3000) can be tricked out with a Geforce 7800 GTX which beats the MBP's graphics card. But the MBP still wins processorwise and in all non-gaming applications, and keeps up quite well in gaming.

[illegalprelude]

Don't delude yourself. Have you seen the benchmarks? The MacBook Pro is the fastest Windows laptop on the market and will crush the Alienware (which is single core).

However, the highest end Alienware laptops (approaching $3000) can be tricked out with a Geforce 7800 GTX which beats the MBP's graphics card. But the MBP still wins processorwise and in all non-gaming applications, and keeps up quite well in gaming.

AMD Athlon™ 64 FX-60 with HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology

so thats not dual core plus 64, not 32 plus HyperTransport witch rapes the Hyper Threading idea.

[LagunaSol]

Good grief, let's not start into the gaming PC wars here. The current Mac lineup is definitely not suited to hardcore gamers in the performance department (not to mention the cosmetics department with hardcore gamers' obsession with neon, cheesy cases with clear panels, spider-shaped grille fans, etc.).

To argue that an iMac or a MacBook Pro is a serious gaming machine is just weak.

BUT

Either machine should be very attractive to casual gamers who currently reside in the Windows world. And I imagine future Mac offerings will be even more appealing to gamers. The diehards will always want to build their own boxes, so they're not Apple's target market anyway.

Toss a Radeon x1800 in an iMac, and you still have a pretty sweet LAN party setup. Hopefully someday... I think the current iMac and MacBook Pro show that Apple is going to start taking video performance more seriously, and that's a good thing for everyone.

On a sidenote, I'd be embarrassed to carry an Alienware laptop around anyway. ;)

[illegalprelude]

Good grief, let's not start into the gaming PC wars here. The current Mac lineup is definitely not suited to hardcore gamers in the performance department (not to mention the cosmetics department with hardcore gamers' obsession with neon, cheesy cases with clear panels, spider-shaped grille fans, etc.).

To argue that an iMac or a MacBook Pro is a serious gaming machine is just weak.

BUT

Either machine should be very attractive to casual gamers who currently reside in the Windows world. And I imagine future Mac offerings will be even more appealing to gamers. The diehards will always want to build their own boxes, so they're not Apple's target market anyway.

Toss a Radeon x1800 in an iMac, and you still have a pretty sweet LAN party setup. Hopefully someday... I think the current iMac and MacBook Pro show that Apple is going to start taking video performance more seriously, and that's a good thing for everyone.

On a sidenote, I'd be embarrassed to carry an Alienware laptop around anyway. ;)


thank you. again, the Mac Elites who have drifted away from the real world like to strike. This isnt a Bash against Macs but the truth is, their not gaming machines. I dont care if its a Macbook Pro or a Quad Core G5. their just not designed for it.

jesus, people on this forum sometimes need to stop pretending Steve Job is paying them to be a Mac Elite

[Lollypop]

It amazes me that so many people see boot camp as a covert attempt to covert windows users to the mac... if so many people see it.. how is it covert? :D

As for gaming, its more than just a graphics card, its fast optimized drivers and game optimization and good fast code in the OS... I think the Mac hs very little of the last 3.

[MacRumorUser]

To answer your thread question. NO!

Apple do not go into battle using another companys Operating System. That's just a stupid premise full stop.

BootCamp should be thought of more as a reaction to the onmac. project.
If the onmac had not been successful, we would still be waiting for leopard and for virtualization. And we would still have had to work through Mac OSX rather than dual boot.

Bootcamp was a reaction to prevent people from fecking up their hardware by forcing a square peg into a round hole. Apple dont want their repair centers full up of macs with buggered XOM/EFI files....

If for 1 tiny mili second 'Gaming' was important to Apple, do you think they would be using the GMA950 in the mini mac? and dropping the dig at pc's that do from their marketing (which came with a nice pic of Halo) ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Haoshiro]

To answer your thread question. NO!

Apple do not go into battle using another companys Operating System. That's just a stupid premise full stop.

BootCamp should be thought of more as a reaction to the onmac. project.
If the onmac had not been successful, we would still be waiting for leopard and for virtualization. And we would still have had to work through Mac OSX rather than dual boot.

Bootcamp was a reaction to prevent people from fecking up their hardware by forcing a square peg into a round hole. Apple dont want their repair centers full up of macs with buggered XOM/EFI files....

If for 1 tiny mili second 'Gaming' was important to Apple, do you think they would be using the GMA950 in the mini mac? and dropping the dig at pc's that do from their marketing (which came with a nice pic of Halo) ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

According to Tuncer Deniz, a previous manager at Bungie, Steve Jobs was actually offered Bungie and took too long deciding. He called them up and said he would buy them but it was too late.

I'm only suggesting that their could be more to it then meets the eye. Which of course would be to avoid people mucking with the EFI. But virtualization?

Do you not think Apple is going to start a new war with Microsoft? If so, do you not think Boot Camp will help push more people to Macs? Would this not help them stage a battle?

[LagunaSol]

If for 1 tiny mili second 'Gaming' was important to Apple, do you think they would be using the GMA950 in the mini mac?

Yeah, because none of the PC makers have low-end machines with integrated graphics either. :rolleyes:

[MacRumorUser]

Yeah, because none of the PC makers have low-end machines with integrated graphics either. :rolleyes:

Your missing the point.

Apple in previous apple marketing slagged of low-end machines with integrated graphics in comparison the the mac mini... :rolleyes:

It's amazing how they backtracked and dropped the 'gaming' reference completely from their mac mini marketing.

Do you not think Apple is going to start a new war with Microsoft? If so, do you not think Boot Camp will help push more people to Macs? Would this not help them stage a battle?

But that's backwards, how can you start a war with Microsoft if what your pushing is the benefit/ability of running their Operating System? That's completely upside down.

If they wanted to really battle Microsoft they would start advertising the benefits of their own operating system.

Look at the last lot of apple adverts. You would think they were for intel rather apple and they told the audience NOTHING about what Apple OSX is or anything.... I know some people think they were intel adverts rather than apple, but that's not the case. These adverts were made for & buy apple.

[Timepass]

I going to say boot camp is more of a sign that apple is giving up on the gaming world. They are saying here run windows if you want to play games.

If apple really wants to get into gaming first they need do more work with the graphic enginee in the OS. Like M$ did with direct X. M$ releasied a very long time ago games where going to become big on the PC back when they started developing directX took them a little while to get it right but once they did it become very powerful.

2nd thing apple will have to do is stop gimping there computers with poor graphic cards and limiting them. until apple does those 2 things no gaming company is going to considered apple have any real intersted in gaming. 2nd one is very imporanted for that part.

[MacRumorUser]

I going to say boot camp is more of a sign that apple is giving up on the gaming world. They are saying here run windows if you want to play games.

If apple really wants to get into gaming first they need do more work with the graphic enginee in the OS. Like M$ did with direct X. M$ releasied a very long time ago games where going to become big on the PC back when they started developing directX took them a little while to get it right but once they did it become very powerful.

2nd thing apple will have to do is stop gimping there computers with poor graphic cards and limiting them. until apple does those 2 things no gaming company is going to considered apple have any real intersted in gaming. 2nd one is very imporanted for that part.

Exactly.


To use an analogy.

This is not a Rambo film where 1 man can go up against an army of soldiers...

Apple being rambo (counting for 4-5% of pc market) and Microsoft as the soldiers (accounting for 91% of market share)......

Your not going to increase your market share by saying to people, look you can now run Windows in our machines which cost more than the Dell that also runs Windows with the same specs... That's retarded..

The thing that made Apple, apple is the operating system.

[Haoshiro]

But that's backwards, how can you start a war with Microsoft if what your pushing is the benefit/ability of running their Operating System? That's completely upside down.

If they wanted to really battle Microsoft they would start advertising the benefits of their own operating system.

Look at the last lot of apple adverts. You would think they were for intel rather apple and they told the audience NOTHING about what Apple OSX is or anything.... I know some people think they were intel adverts rather than apple, but that's not the case. These adverts were made for & buy apple.

I think you're missing my point (and also over looking Scenario #2 I listed).

They aren't pushing the abilities or benefits of Windows. Windows isn't so much "popular" as it is wide spread. Apple knows that for what ever reason people think they need Windows and until they really use OS X they won't see how little they actually don't need it.

People need to feel they can transition easily. Boot Camp eases the apprehension of potential new mac users by saying 'hey, we're not making you drop everything you're familiar with right now, you can test the waters and not be afraid to do so.'

I have known MANY PC users that loved the idea of switching to Mac, but they didn't want a second computer. These people just needed to know Windows would work and be there if they need it. And that's the thing, people don't. So yes Apple is offering them Windows but the intention, I think, is to ween them, not simply pacify them.

[MacWombat]

I think you're downplaying bootcamp a little. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I don't think Apple released boot camp just because of the onmac community. They could have easily said don't do that, it will void your warranty. I really think Apple planned this with the move to intel, too much fits together.

However, I don't understand how this could possibly be an attack on MS at all. It's helping them, not hurting them. I don't know if the motive is this complex, but Apple may be targeting the hardware market. If they can increase percentage there (obviously sales will be going up = money), but their software marketshare also increases as a result. I'm not saying they are looking to go up leaps and bounds, but if they can go from 4-5 percent up to just 7 percent, that is pretty impressive.

On to gaming, will this target hardcore gamers who A) build their own PC's inexpensively or B) buy their PCs from Alienware, Dell XPS, etc. A) God, no. They don't care enough about the Mac OS to drop that cash, and if we are talking about a mini it's not fast enough. B) Maybe. Don't get me wrong, no hardcore pc gamer is going to sell their expensive system, but chances are they have more money to spend in general than the A group. We've seen some quasi-famous PC gamers buy macs even before bootcamp. The guys at Penny-Arcade (regardless if you think they are funny or not) bought an iMac and a MBP. Yeah, they did it for the OS and because now it used an intel chip. However, when bootcamp was released one of them commented on it's gaming possibilities.

"as a mobile option, I think it's already a compelling choice - but until the full desktop line becomes available, these developments are largely nerd trivia. When Apple starts making machines that you can replace the videocard in, machines that run every OS and every application without the taint of performance sapping emulation, the conversation will become very interesting."

I don't think he's speaking of AutoCAD or whatever else software runs on XP and not OS X. He's talking about gaming and granted, he has more money than the average PC gamer I still think its an interesting proposition. Yes, the Apple desktop will prboably cost more than the Dell gaming systems. But some, not all, hardcore gamers may be willing to give up the extra cash in order to be able to run Mac OS X. My semi-hardcore gaming friend already decided to get a mac as his next computer because of boot camp. And that was before any notion of an intel tower.

I don't think its an Apple "war" though. A probable good scenario is that Apple will rise a couple of points in market share. There's really nothing to lose for them either.

[Haoshiro]

And really that is all I'm suggesting, that the move has more complex reasoning then it outwardly appears.

Are they simply playing it safe and just trying to inch out a bit more market; or will we see a much more aggressive Apple in the coming months/years?

That seems like a pretty good summary.

[Abulia]

So what if you can't build a gaming Mac? You can still buy one that performs EXTREMELY well on modern games. ESPECIALLY the laptops; you can't build a gaming PC laptop either, and the Mac outperforms all the Windows laptops on the market.Not on the review of Windows of the MacBook Pro, it doesn't. The Mac didn't win one test versus other Core Duo laptops.

http://www.anandtech.com

[Edit] Here's the direct link (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2740&p=15). Apple comes in 3rd on both tests. Time to maybe stop drinking so much of that Apple kool-aid, my friend.

[spencecb]

So it sounds like the consensus so far is that no Apple is not going to try to wage a war with Microsoft, nor will they team up with them.

Sure, this does work as a "switch" campaign, I'm just asking if anyone thinks it could be more then that.

Personally I think Windows is weaker then ever right now. MS has been spending a lot of time and money on Xbox, Vista continues to get delayed, and public perception of Windows really isn't that great anyway.

Why wouldn't Apple march ahead with a more aggressive campaign? Why wouldn't they strike while the beast is sleeping?

Switching to Intel could have been the first steps of Apple opening their superior OS to the general computing public. If not that, something a but more subversive. Why not? Because Apple is content with being the underdog and enjoy the position they are in now?

Like I said, it's all speculation... but it doesn't seem completely unplausible... heck, Boot Camp exists... and that shocked a lot of people already. Nobody thinks we'll get another shocker?

Of course they are waging war with Microsoft. When haven't the two companies been at peace? But your other ideas are just wacko.

[illegalprelude]

Not on the review of Windows of the MacBook Pro, it doesn't. The Mac didn't win one test versus other Core Duo laptops.

http://www.anandtech.com

[Edit] Here's the direct link (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2740&p=15). Apple comes in 3rd on both tests. Time to maybe stop drinking so much of that Apple kool-aid, my friend.

thank you. people on this forum for some reason believe that if dont have apple as #1 in every catigory, their lacking something. Like they feel insecure about their machine or something. We are all here cause we love using Macs but we need to all like you said put the drinks down and admit, Apple and Gaming do not mix. I dont care if its the Mac Mini, Quad Core G5 or the MBP.

[ManchesterTrix]

Not on the review of Windows of the MacBook Pro, it doesn't. The Mac didn't win one test versus other Core Duo laptops.

http://www.anandtech.com

[Edit] Here's the direct link (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2740&p=15). Apple comes in 3rd on both tests. Time to maybe stop drinking so much of that Apple kool-aid, my friend.

I believe there were tests at some site that were showing the MacBook beating out other Core Duo machines while using XP. It's one of the Mac sites, but I personally didn't pay attention because benchmarks don't really mean much to me. I did like Anand's review though.

[pionata]

Short comment about mac not being gaming machines... That way of thinking will change with the release of the next gen powermacs. Quad intel, Dual boot, and upgradable computer; its going to run every game almost flawlessly, just as well as any comparable pc. But it will have all the advantages of OsX (wich is essential to many). Of course the pc fans will say macs are more expensive and blabla, but Im just waiting to get rid of my damn pc and Im sure Im not the only one.

And about alienware being more powerfull; those are almost not laptops, their are huge, have a 1 hour battery life, get burning hot, etc...

[Timepass]

Short comment about mac not being gaming machines... That way of thinking will change with the release of the next gen powermacs. Quad intel, Dual boot, and upgradable computer; its going to run every game almost flawlessly, just as well as any comparable pc. But it will have all the advantages of OsX (wich is essential to many). Of course the pc fans will say macs are more expensive and blabla, but Im just waiting to get rid of my damn pc and Im sure Im not the only one.

And about alienware being more powerfull; those are almost not laptops, their are huge, have a 1 hour battery life, get burning hot, etc...


not really. yeah they have gaming power but they will not get respect until there consumer level computers can be made into a respectible gaming computer.

Right now you can build a good gaming PC for 1k monitor and all. and on top of that a really nice gaming computer can be boughting for 2k or less. Try doing that on a Mac. I hate to say it but to even get to a respectble gaming computer that is a mac you are talking about being at at least 2.5k for just the tower. A little high to gain the respect of the gaming comminity

[MacWombat]

not really. yeah they have gaming power but they will not get respect until there consumer level computers can be made into a respectible gaming computer.

Right now you can build a good gaming PC for 1k monitor and all. and on top of that a really nice gaming computer can be boughting for 2k or less. Try doing that on a Mac. I hate to say it but to even get to a respectble gaming computer that is a mac you are talking about being at at least 2.5k for just the tower. A little high to gain the respect of the gaming comminity


True, you can't and probably won't be able to buy a similarly equipped mac for the same money you would a PC. You'll never be able to buy a mac for the price you would build a PC either. It's not a full-waged war, it's just going for a small percentage of people in different groupings. Hardcore gamers that want a Mac. Paying 2500 for one computer is better than buying an imac for 1200 (or more) and 1500-2000 for a PC (not building one this time). The outcome is better too. The Mac is as fast as the PC but it's faster than the iMac. That seems to make sense to me, but I have a fever so sorry if it doesn't

[Dagless]

Funny, no matter the power that some of the overpriced PC laptops are getting, I'd still rather play HL2 on a MBP than anything else. :) 3rd on a list or not!