15" PowerBook Anticipated

[MacRumors]

According to Spymac (http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=330_0_5_0_C), the Powerbook 15" will be seeing upgrades in the near future:

sources anticipate that Apple will be ready to roll out the updated 1GHz 15.4" PowerBooks by the end of February, with an announcement as early as next week not out of the question.

[Eric-C]

The release of the 15" this week would make such a great birthday present! (for me of course) Although next week's ok too...

I've read as much as I can on this release speculation. Does anyone still think that these rumors are wishful thinking? It appears there is at least a minority of people who think it will be out in the summer.

[Pablo]

I really hope they hurry up on this.

Amazon.com currently has a promotion offering a $200 credit towards your next purchase (would really help in getting the OS X versions of the PC software I use) which expires on March 1st.

I like the features of the 17", but would probably prefer those same features in the 15"...mainly due to price.

I guess if I don't hear anything by the end of February, I'll go ahead and pull the trigger on a 17"...but I also hope that my local stores get some in before then so I can take a look at them in person.

[macphisto]

Given the amount of updating that Apple has been doing I wouldn't be suprised. That would add a nice icing to the cake for th powerbook lines...and I hope that the pricing will reflect Apples current strategy of lowering prices.

Now what to get, 17inch or 15inch pb? I can only dream...

:)

[Eric-C]

Originally posted by Pablo
Amazon.com currently has a promotion offering a $200 credit towards your next purchase (would really help in getting the OS X versions of the PC software I use) which expires on March 1st.
[/B]

Couldn't you just buy the software now and buy the powerbook later? I assume the software should be compatible with both powerbooks.

[shadowfax]

man, thank god they said end of february. those aspecific rumor time frames really have been getting SO annoying.

i am forecasting iPods tomorrow and Tibooks next tuesday for a 5 week streak. anyone want to guess what's after that for 6 weeks? ;)

They need to update the iBooks, and then we can say that they switched out their entire line of products in a matter of less than 2 months. that would be one heck of an accomplishment for apple.

I think you'll still be able to get Tibooks from apple after this, even if they do come out with a 15 inch albook. That whole OS 9 thing... still awhile till june or whenever they are "really really" pulling the plug.

[howard]

what is the point of a 15.4 inch powerbook??? is it just a bigger screen or is the whole powerbook going to be .2 inches bigger? i mean if they didn't make the whole power book bigger and just the screen that would be cool...but i thought there was not enough room. i guess i don't think its taht big a deal for a .2 inch change

[DHagan4755]

CompUSA's online store has the following shipping estimates:

iBook 700 - 2 to 4 weeks
iBook 800 12" - 3 to 6 days
iBook 800 14" - 2 to 4 weeks
PBG4 867 12" - 48 Hours
TiBook 867 - 2 to 4 weeks
TiBook 1GHz - 2 to 4 weeks
PBG4 1GHz 17" - Pre-Order

I don't know if this is telling or not, but if the new 12" PowerBook is shipping in 48 hours...and the 4-month old Titaniums in 2 to 4 weeks..that says something to me.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by howard
what is the point of a 15.4 inch powerbook??? is it just a bigger screen or is the whole powerbook going to be .2 inches bigger? i mean if they didn't make the whole power book bigger and just the screen that would be cool...but i thought there was not enough room. i guess i don't think its taht big a deal for a .2 inch change

they aren't updating for the sake of .2 inches. they are, if they do this, changing the aspect ratio from 3:2 to 16:10, like the 1440*900 17 inch powerbook, for consistency across the lines. problem is, in doing so, it looks like they are going to cut 7-8% on the actual resolution.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
CompUSA's online store has the following shipping estimates:

iBook 700 - 2 to 4 weeks
iBook 800 12" - 3 to 6 days
iBook 800 14" - 2 to 4 weeks
PBG4 867 12" - 48 Hours
TiBook 867 - 2 to 4 weeks
TiBook 1GHz - 2 to 4 weeks
PBG4 1GHz 17" - Pre-Order

I don't know if this is telling or not, but if the new 12" PowerBook is shipping in 48 hours...and the 4-month old Titaniums in 2 to 4 weeks..that says something to me.

by that logic, though, they're coming out with new 14 inch iBooks too. i think compUSA is just being pathetically out of stock.

[AhmedFaisal]

I sure hope Apple spares the 15.4" from the dumb idea of putting NVIDIA chips in. I want the Radeon 9000, the NVIDIAs in the desktops are already lameass, we don't need that in the Powerbook. And also I hope we keep the DVI and L3 Cache. The ratings of the 12" for non Altivec Applications compared to the fastest iBooks are horrible!

Ahmed

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
I sure hope Apple spares the 15.4" from the dumb idea of putting NVIDIA chips in. I want the Radeon 9000, the NVIDIAs in the desktops are already lameass, we don't need that in the Powerbook. And also I hope we keep the DVI and L3 Cache. The ratings of the 12" for non Altivec Applications compared to the fastest iBooks are horrible!

Ahmed

The Geforce 4Go 460 is currently the fastest processor on the mobile video market; however, apple did not put this im the now Powerbook 17 inch, for unexplained reasons. I think you will see all the same hardware specs on the current 15 inch tibook, plus, say, DDR, probably a regression to an nVidia card, and then AE and FW2.

[agreenster]

I sure hope they are making a lot of them, because the hype surrounding these things are going to sell them out FAST.

[Backtothemac]

Hey Shaddow, the 15.1 is a 16:10 ratio, not 3:2

What ya thinking there man ;)

[AhmedFaisal]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
The Geforce 4Go 460 is currently the fastest processor on the mobile video market; however, apple did not put this im the now Powerbook 17 inch, for unexplained reasons. I think you will see all the same hardware specs on the current 15 inch tibook, plus, say, DDR, probably a regression to an nVidia card, and then AE and FW2.

The problem is that the driver support from NVIDIA sucks even more than that from ATi. Macwelt recently compared the available NVIDIA cards for the desktop Mac with the Radeons. The Radeon 8500 was faster than any NVIDIA chip available. Especially when it came to OpenGL and simple stuff such as Quartz Extreme the NVIDIAs showed a serious lag behind the two top ATis. I have doubts it will be any different in the Laptops. What is even more a bother is the performance of the 12" Powerbook. In non Altivec enhanced Apps it was actually slower than the fastest iBook and even in Graphics it couldn't outdistance the iBook with its 7500 Radeon. The fact that it doesn't have a DVI adds to the question why one should spend so much more money for a laptop that isn't faster overall. The 12" definitely needs a revision soon. I also hope to see the ratings for the 17" compared to the old 15" soon to see if this one at least performs better than its predecessor.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[Pablo]

Originally posted by Eric-C
Couldn't you just buy the software now and buy the powerbook later? I assume the software should be compatible with both powerbooks.

Yes, but then that would bring my total out of pocket expense to the retail price of the PowerBook, plus the retail price of the software.

If I take advantage of Amazon.com's promotion, if I buy either PowerBook (17" or 15"), I would get an extra $200 'free' to spend on that software, thereby making my total out of pocket expense up to $200 less.

[rideahyperLite]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Hey Shaddow, the 15.1 is a 16:10 ratio, not 3:2

What ya thinking there man ;)

no.
current tibook - 1280/854 (pixels) = 3/2 (almost)
anticipated new alubook - 1280/800 (pixels) = 16/10

[MacFan25]

I wonder how much a 15" AlBook is going to cost. Anyone have a clue?

[redAPPLE]

opinions please.

does anyone agree with me, that the next pb revision would be a "major" revision?

it is basically the powerbook that we all want.

- it runs cooler (with the AL case)

- still around an inch thick

- ae

- better placing of the airport antenna

- superdrive

- hopefully same price or lower

- fw800

the only thing that is missing is that proc they keep calling the g5.

;)

[Bear]

Originally posted by MacFan25
I wonder how much a 15" AlBook is going to cost. Anyone have a clue?
I suspect the same to $100 (US) more for configs similar to the ones on the Apple Store.

Especially if they add the backlight for the keyboard.

[animefan_1]

The Radeon 9000 IS better than the GeForce 4 460, which was not used because it uses external VRam (instead of onboard), which takes up more space. The ONLY mobile card in existence currently that MIGHT beat the Radeon 9000 is the GeForce4 4200 Go, but Apple won't put that in their mid-range PowerBooks because they would want the 17" to have the best.

[AhmedFaisal]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
opinions please.

does anyone agree with me, that the next pb revision would be a "major" revision?

it is basically the powerbook that we all want.

- it runs cooler (with the AL case)

- still around an inch thick

- ae

- better placing of the airport antenna

- superdrive

- hopefully same price or lower

- fw800

the only thing that is missing is that proc they keep calling the g5.

;)

Yep, very much so. However I would already be happy with one of those PPC 7457 G4s Motorola announced since they dissipate way less heat than the current ones. Also the beefed up L2 will be nice. Personally I don't really care for the Superdrive since the lag of burning speed in the laptops, I would go for the combo drives with 24x R/RW rather than the Superdrive. Illuminated Keyboard, thats what I would like to see and that they keep the Radeon (I'll make that my ceterum censeo ;) hehe). Also a lid or some kind of cover for the connectivity ports would be nice, this is one thing I miss in the new powerbooks. We also need HDs with bigger cache, the new Toshiba with 16MB comes to mind or at least the Travelstar with 8MB.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[cr2sh]

Historically though, how accurate has Spymac been? :)
I'll wait for Arn to comfirm this rumor, then I'll believe it. So how about it Arn, hear this from any of your sources?

[blueBomber]

maybe now they can start calling the 12" alPB by it's real name... ibook G4 ;)

[GeneR]

Sometimes, the anticipation for these products is like being taunted. Ah, cruel mistress (INNOVATIVE-APPLE-PRODUCTS), how cruel, cruel cruel... to be so close but yet so far...

Give me a 17" or a 15" Alu PB anyday. Heck, I'll take both! Just hurry up, already!

:D

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by rideahyperLite
no.
current tibook - 1280/854 (pixels) = 3/2 (almost)
anticipated new alubook - 1280/800 (pixels) = 16/10

Aspect Ratio has nothing to do with the number of pixels, but the format of the screen. 3/2 is normal 15" or an tv style. 16:10 is like 16:9 widescreen format..

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Hey Shaddow, the 15.1 is a 16:10 ratio, not 3:2

What ya thinking there man ;)

honest mistake on your part, buddy ;)
i have a Tibook in my lap. it's not 15.1 inches, either, it's 15.2.

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Aspect Ratio has nothing to do with the number of pixels, but the format of the screen. 3/2 is normal 15" or an tv style. 16:10 is like 16:9 widescreen format..

sorry, once again, you're a little off. that's 4:3 on a normal TV.

also, the pixel count has to correspond to the ratio, otherwise you get pixels shaped like rectangles, which is NOT cool, and circles on the screen start to look like ovals, and so on. for instance, run a standard CRT monitor at 1280*1024. you'll notice that everything looks elongated, as compared to 1152*864, or, better yet, 1280*960, the proper 4:3 ratio.

16:10 is not like 16:9. to watch a 16:9 widescreen movie, you would still have letterboxing on it with a 16:10 ratio screen like apple's 17 inch 1440*900 screen.

[sonny]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Aspect Ratio has nothing to do with the number of pixels, but the format of the screen. 3/2 is normal 15" or an tv style. 16:10 is like 16:9 widescreen format..

pretty sure the current powerbook is 16:10, the 3:2 ratio is so freakin' close to 16:10 that it's basically splitting hairs, i mean we are really talking 16:10 (8:5, 4:2.5) and 15:10 (7.5: 5, 3:2) ratios, so even if yr argument were true 15:10 is basically 16:10.

as for resolutions, 1280*1024 is the normal resolution for 17" CRT's around the world, as well as 17" flat panel, not 1280*960..

[timbloom]

The new 15" will be just like the 17" but the form factor of the ever popular Ti. I think this product will be the real seller, nobody needs 17" really, but 12" just is to small for the geeks/macaddicts. The 15" would be juuuuussst right.
The same beloved form factor, wrapped in better armor, and more functionality.

[timbloom]

also, the main problem with the airport signal on the Ti was not just the placement. Titanium just happens to block the required radio spectrum allotted to Airport, go figure, so they needed to cut out the metal where the antenna's would go, leaving less effective area for it to pick up signal. Aluminum does not have this problem, so even if they put the antenna's in the same spot (they won't), you would see a drastic improvement.

[powerbook]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
opinions please.

does anyone agree with me, that the next pb revision would be a "major" revision?

it is basically the powerbook that we all want.

- it runs cooler (with the AL case)

- still around an inch thick

- ae

- better placing of the airport antenna

- superdrive

- hopefully same price or lower

- fw800

the only thing that is missing is that proc they keep calling the g5.

;)

Also, add the 167MHz bus that most people seem to forget! It should give an extra boost over the Ti!!

:D

[shadowfax]

snip snip

[post off topic]

[DavPeanut]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
The Geforce 4Go 460 is currently the fastest processor on the mobile video market.
Wrong!
The Quadro4 700 Go is the fastest.
Actually, it may not be. But its the most powerful.

[rideahyperLite]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Aspect Ratio has nothing to do with the number of pixels, but the format of the screen. 3/2 is normal 15" or an tv style. 16:10 is like 16:9 widescreen format..

i may be an idiot but..

the ratio of the pixels makes the size of the screen. so a screen with 1280 (pixels going across) x 854 (pixels going down) means that the ratio of horizontal pixels to vertical pixels is 1.4988 (more or less 3/2 which is 1.5)
so a screen with 1280 (pixels going across) x 800 (pixels going down) would produce a ratio of 1.6 (which is 16/10)

[Grimace]

So...for a potential PC convert, where would be the best place to buy a new 15.4" PB when it comes out? Apple's website or somewhere else? I can take advantage of the educational discount through Apple.com - are there stores that can do the same for less? :confused:

[Pablo]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
So...for a potential PC convert, where would be the best place to buy a new 15.4" PB when it comes out? Apple's website or somewhere else? I can take advantage of the educational discount through Apple.com - are there stores that can do the same for less? :confused:

From what I've seen (same situation) Apple's educational discount ~$150 isn't enough to overcome the sales tax that would be applied to the purchase.

I think I'll be going through Amazon.com. They're currently offering a $200 store credit towards your next purchase if you buy a computer valued at $2000 or more. You could use that for software, base station, mice, etc.

[jfink]

I have not seriously used a Mac since College and would like an alternative to the PC at home since I deal with PC's all day long..

I am considering the new powerbook mostly for video editing, DVD burning, and Music Sampling. My question is what will the new Powerbook 15.4 compare to in terms of a PC counterpart in speed.. Given the L2 Cache, etc.

I want the illuminated keyboard, Superdrive and AL case.. I do however have a P3 1.1 Toshiba PC Laptop I am contemplating adding an external DVD drive to..

I want to get into Mac again but I need to know this will not be completely trumped in 6 months...

Also big question.. Can the Airport card talk to my exisiting Linksys Wireless 802.11b access point...

A little off topic but this new 15.4 PB is the one I am considering..

Thanks,
Jeff

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by DavPeanut
Wrong!
The Quadro4 700 Go is the fastest.
Actually, it may not be. But its the most powerful.

i think you are probably right. but i am almost positive that the quadro4 go is just a Geforce4Go that is compliant with workstation drivers so that you can use it on truly professional graphics applications, not just 3d rendering.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by rideahyperLite
i may be an idiot but..

the ratio of the pixels makes the size of the screen. so a screen with 1280 (pixels going across) x 854 (pixels going down) means that the ratio of horizontal pixels to vertical pixels is 1.4988 (more or less 3/2 which is 1.5)
so a screen with 1280 (pixels going across) x 800 (pixels going down) would produce a ratio of 1.6 (which is 16/10)

you're right, for an LCD. but on a CRT, you can get all kinds of distorting ratios. a CRT monitor's output is *always* 4:3 if the screen is constucted to that shape (and almost all are). however, you can get all kinds of crazy resolutions sent out to them with a Geforce or other nice card. my Geforce3 on my PC would have the most outrageous resolutions. one that wasn't so crazy was 1440*900. running this out to a 4:3 monitor makes it look TOTALLY screwed up.

come to think of it, you can screw aspect ratio up on an LCD. take my powerbook. it will do 1024*768. you can have vertical letterboxes and make it look right, or you can stretch it out and make everything look fatter.

ultimately, though, it would be very very improper for apple to actually sell a computer with a screen that had an actual screen ratio different from the aspect ratio of the native resolution. they have not done and will not do this.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jfink
I have not seriously used a Mac since College and would like an alternative to the PC at home since I deal with PC's all day long..

I am considering the new powerbook mostly for video editing, DVD burning, and Music Sampling. My question is what will the new Powerbook 15.4 compare to in terms of a PC counterpart in speed.. Given the L2 Cache, etc.

I want the illuminated keyboard, Superdrive and AL case.. I do however have a P3 1.1 Toshiba PC Laptop I am contemplating adding an external DVD drive to..

the Albook 1GHz will eat your P3 for lunch. it will compare more to the 2.2 GHz P4m mobiles they have out now. you will notice an unbelievable difference in system performance between your toshiba and this thing.


I want to get into Mac again but I need to know this will not be completely trumped in 6 months...


it won't. people have 667 MHz G4 tibooks from over a year ago that are still highly competitive in performance. macintoshes tend to age much better than PCs, from what i have read.

Also big question.. Can the Airport card talk to my exisiting Linksys Wireless 802.11b access point...

absolutely no trouble at all. i use an airport card on a netgear 802.11b wireless router (right as i type actually), and i have accidentally logged onto my neighbor's linksys wireless router.;)

A little off topic but this new 15.4 PB is the one I am considering..

Thanks,
Jeff

you'll have to wait till it comes out to know anything in particular. all my comments are based on the current 15.2", which i own. but, other than the screen size change, and probably a GeForce4G 440, the new 15.3" one is probably going to have the same or better specs than the current 15.2", if it does indeed come out.

[Flowbee]

I have to say, I think it would be strange for Apple to announce the 15" Al before the 17" ships. Especially if it has the backlit keyboard, FW800, etc. If the 15" is ~$500 cheaper than the 17", I'd imagine a ton of orders for the 17" would be cancelled.

That being said, I want a 15" Al ASAP! :D

[synergy]

Originally posted by Flowbee
I have to say, I think it would be strange for Apple to announce the 15" Al before the 17" ships. Especially if it has the backlit keyboard, FW800, etc. If the 15" is ~$500 cheaper than the 17", I'd imagine a ton of orders for the 17" would be cancelled.

That being said, I want a 15" Al ASAP! :D

Actually I doubt many orders would be cancelled based on the 15" Albook.
The 17" is in a class of its own, no other laptop is that size. Those who buy for video editing will love the extra real estate.

As for the 15" one that would do me just fine. The extra cash for the 17" would be tough to cough up. Though it is a nice laptop. Would have to get a look at both to compare.

:)

[DavPeanut]

Originally posted by Flowbee
I have to say, I think it would be strange for Apple to announce the 15" Al before the 17" ships. Especially if it has the backlit keyboard, FW800, etc. If the 15" is ~$500 cheaper than the 17", I'd imagine a ton of orders for the 17" would be cancelled.

That being said, I want a 15" Al ASAP! :D
It would not be weird if they had them both ship on the same day. Then you see the iBook for cheap, the small PB for some power, 15inch for power, and 17inch for the big screen and faster bus.
Wait, thats not enough difference for $500. Humm...

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
the Albook 1GHz will eat your P3 for lunch. it will compare more to the 2.2 GHz P4m mobiles they have out now. you will notice an unbelievable difference in system performance between your toshiba and this thing.

This statement should really be qualified by a big "depends on what you do". There are some things the G4 is really good at and it can make up ground vs. pure mhz, however there are some things it doesn't do so well. The 3D software I use runs quite a lot slower clock for clock on a G4 vs. a PIII tualatin, so in that case, you'd loose ground. Subjectively the user experience feels about the same, but when I click render, the same scene takes about half the time to render on my PIII 1ghz as it does on my G4 800mhz. I find that if it's optimized for Altivec and the windows version is not optimized for SSE you'll see the G4 eat a PIII's lunch but if they are both unoptimized or both optimized, it's a different story.

Saying all that, for the uses you've mentioned (video editing, DVD burning, music sampling), it won't be the fastest thing out there, but you'll probably find it quite acceptable and it certainly gets it all (DVD burning included) in a nice portable package.

[Trekkie]

Compusa has 18 month no-interest financing right now. I've been really trying not to buy the 12" because I need just a bit more screen and I like the widescreen format.

plus, the 12" on Compusa's site doesn't have the DVD burner which I'd like

[shadowfax]

snip snip

[post off topic]

[sonny]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
dude, 1280*1024 is only standard because the distortion is not very perceptible. i like the look it gives, myself, and used it on my trinitron monitor. however, do the math. here, i'll do it for you.
1280/960=1024/768=4/3=1.3333
1280/1024=5/4=1.25=not the standard 4:3 ratio. i don't want to be mean, but it is really basic to understand that there will be a distortion when you use 1280*1024 on a screen that is 4:3 it squashes the pixels so that they are shaped like rectangles instead of squares, thus making images on the screen of squares look like they are horizontally elongated rectangles, and circles look like horizontally elongated ovals.

moving on to the Tibook that i have in my lap right now, 16:10 vs. 15:10 (3:2) is not splitting hairs. you are talking about the difference between 1280*800 (16:10) and 1280*854 (3:2, 15:10, on the current 15.2" Tibook). that is a net difference of 54*1280 (69,120 pixels total) that you are losing. there is nothing hairline about that. that's my workspace! there are 1,093,120 pixels on my 1280*854 screen. there are 1,024,000 on the 1280*800. that's 93.7% of the screen space, and thus 6.3% you are losing. sure, the number is cleaner, but that's not hairline. hairline would be, in my mind, like the difference between 1280*854 and 1280*850.

my monitor which we both assume is 4:3 ratio won't even show 1280x960 at all, but it will show 1280X1024, so does that make my monitor 4:3.5? no ovals instead of circles or rectangles instead of squares...not sure where you getting all this.

i am personally talking about ratio's, not resolutions, not much difference in 15:10 and 16:10, everyone hates to loose any space to a lower resolution, i agree on that. but still not much difference in 1280x854 and 1280x800, if you weren't told the difference you'd never know. who's to say they won't up the resolution a few pixels with the 15.4", it is only a rumor so far.

it's just a disagreement on perception. it's no biggy unless you make it ;)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by ewinemiller
This statement should really be qualified by a big "depends on what you do". There are some things the G4 is really good at and it can make up ground vs. pure mhz, however there are some things it doesn't do so well. The 3D software I use runs quite a lot slower clock for clock on a G4 vs. a PIII tualatin, so in that case, you'd loose ground. Subjectively the user experience feels about the same, but when I click render, the same scene takes about half the time to render on my PIII 1ghz as it does on my G4 800mhz. I find that if it's optimized for Altivec and the windows version is not optimized for SSE you'll see the G4 eat a PIII's lunch but if they are both unoptimized or both optimized, it's a different story.

Saying all that, for the uses you've mentioned (video editing, DVD burning, music sampling), it won't be the fastest thing out there, but you'll probably find it quite acceptable and it certainly gets it all (DVD burning included) in a nice portable package.

you're right, i was overgeneralizing, but can you cite an example of a laptop that would out match the 17 inch albook (which is what we assume this will be, only 15.4 inches) that's of a comparable price (≈2700 or whatever it is now)? for the things mentioned (DV editing, DVD burning, music sampling), that is.


[post not off topic] oops!

[sonny]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
get a ruler out. i told you it was not highly perceptible, but that doesn't mean it's not there. i hardly noticed, or i wouldn't have used it. but i mean, come on. think about it. you can do the math. you can see 1024*768 on your, right? and the ratio there is 4:3. and you won't argue that the shape of the display changes when you switch resolutions. clearly, one of them is distorted. but do get that ruler out. i am curious. in fact, i am going to go into the other room on my 17 inch trinitron and make a square in photoshop to check.

results:

17 inch (16.0" viewable) dell trinitron monitor:
≈13" W, ≈9.625" H; 13/9.25≈1.35, very close to the 4:3 (1.3333) ratio.

800px*800px Photoshop image dimensions on screen:
1024*768: ≈6.5" W, ≈6.5" H; 6.5/6.5=1
1280*1024: ≈ 5.25" W; ≈5" H; 5.25/5=1.05, and hence, my point, there exists slight distortion.

1280*1024 is standard because it's not very perceptible, but that dooesn't make it the right ratio.

you're right, though, it's no biggy, but don't say there's no distortion on it when there really is. anyways, that's enough calculator work for tonight.

yr ruler still does not make any circles into ovals nor does it make any squares in rectangles on my screen. my screen looks perfect, no distortion.

as i said in my first post splitting hairs.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by sonny
yr ruler still does not make any circles into ovals nor does it make any squares in rectangles on my screen. my screen looks perfect, no distortion.

as i said in my first post splitting hairs.
snip

sorry, sonny, this is really immature. i think we both have a valid point. it is technically true that 1280*1024 is a distorted resolution on a 4:3 monitor, but it's splitting hairs, as you say; this got way out of control; once again, i apologize, and will shortly have my posts gone from this thread.

[pantagruel]

Hope this is true because Id much rather have a new 15" aluminum book, the 12" is cute and all but Id really like a bigger screen.
fingers crossed.

[john123]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
opinions please.

does anyone agree with me, that the next pb revision would be a "major" revision?

it is basically the powerbook that we all want.

- it runs cooler (with the AL case)

- still around an inch thick

- ae

- better placing of the airport antenna

- superdrive

- hopefully same price or lower

- fw800

the only thing that is missing is that proc they keep calling the g5.

;)

Dude, I couldn't disagree with you more. Let's go point-by-point:

*Runs cooler: Uh, no. The case won't affect the temperature at which it runs -- only heat dissipation. In other words, maybe you'll have hotter hands like lots of people have reported with the 12" PB. Gee, great, burns...

* Still around an inch thick: how is it a major revision on this point if it's the same as the old?

* AE/antenna: nice feature, yes. Wireless is the only definite upgrade here in my mind.

* SuperDrive: as before, how is it a major revision on this point if it's the same as the old?

* Price: all speculation here

* FireWire800: In my mind, what a waste. FireWire400's bus is rarely saturated. This is a sales gimmick for now and little more. The only FW800 devices out now that I know of are hard drives, and there you'll be limited by the drive itself and its concomitant rpm rather than the enclosure and bus used to transmit the data.

And then there are definite DOWNGRADES in the graphics card, and the loss of OS 9 bootability, and the loss of 54 vertical pixels...

I don't see this as a major revision...just another product to keep Apple lovers oohing and aahing over the newest thing on the block. If they introduce it, discontinuing the TiBook would be a big mistake...

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by john123
Dude, I couldn't disagree with you more. Let's go point-by-point:

*Runs cooler: Uh, no. The case won't affect the temperature at which it runs -- only heat dissipation. In other words, maybe you'll have hotter hands like lots of people have reported with the 12" PB. Gee, great, burns... i'm curious, how does the heat dissipation of Al compare to Ti? like, the elements themselves. it's not THAT different, is it? i think the 12 inch is just a little too much hot sauce for such a small bowl of chili. * FireWire800: In my mind, what a waste. FireWire400's bus is rarely saturated. This is a sales gimmick for now and little more. The only FW800 devices out now that I know of are hard drives, and there you'll be limited by the drive itself and its concomitant rpm rather than the enclosure and bus used to transmit the data. i hope they go up to 5400 rpm and keep the high density. i am truly disappointed with the drive speed on mine if anything at all. And then there are definite DOWNGRADES in the graphics card, and the loss of OS 9 bootability, and the loss of 54 vertical pixels...couldn't agree more. except on OS 9. i don't care, i want it gone. I don't see this as a major revision...just another product to keep Apple lovers oohing and aahing over the newest thing on the block. If they introduce it, discontinuing the TiBook would be a big mistake... don't like how you sound really annoyed that they do this, but i agree that it's not a big thing. if they go DDR 333 AND keep the 1 MB L3 cache, i think you will see an overall improvement there, looking at the 17 inch performance. that's the only other potential upgrade i see here. and honestly, i don't think any of this is really worth it (except maybe AE if you have use for it) if you lose pixels.

[RndmAxess]

Deleted

[Eric-C]

I did a little research on the heat conductivity issue. First, heat conductivity is directly proportional to electrical conductivity since it they both depend on moving electrons. Heat conductivity is measured in Watts per meter per Kelvin. It just so happens that Aluminum's heat conductivity is 237 W/m-K while titanium is 21.9W/m-K. These numbers are at 300K(or about 23 degrees C) and 1 atm(pressure at sea level). What does this mean? I'm not really sure. However, I can at least speculate that the higher heat conductivity value, the higher the rate of heat dissipation. That would mean the aluminum dissipates at least 10 times faster?? That would be a significant difference I think...

Does anyone happen to be an authority in this branch of physics?

[Eric-C]

Oh, and here are my sources-

Heat Conductivity of Aluminum:
http://www.efunda.com/materials/elements/TC_Table.cfm?Element_ID=Al

Heat Conductivity of Titanium:
http://www.efunda.com/materials/elements/TC_Table.cfm?Element_ID=Ti

See the numbers for yourself.


I guess even though the discrepency is big, the fact that the titanium and aluminum are not pure plays a significant factor. However, one must wonder how much the discrepency does play a part in how hot the PB gets...


Heres a little explanation of heat, or thermal conductivity.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/thercond.html

[seamuskrat]

As for the heat dissipation properties, the Al will in fact feel warmer to the touch as it will allow more heat to escape. However, if you use an IR thermometer or other accurate measuring tool, the Al will actually have a cooler ambient air temperature while operating.
Most thin laptops, regardless of case will have a concentrated heat spot on the case.
Titanium, while a 'wow factor' material, is actually a tough material for Apple to work with. While it can be anodized its not easy and looks 'odd', it is hard to work with in terms fo milling, molding and fabrication, its more $$$ than other materials, and it inherently does not let things like paint stick to it well. Al on the other hand is cheaper, easy to work with, can be colored, and painted easier. The Al will remove heat better, and thus cool down a hot processor faster than Ti, but would not feel any cooler to the touch if all things were equal.

Since Ti is mostly known for its strenght, and no one advises dropping powerbooks, its all moot to use it. I think it was very wise for Apple to move to Al, and I look forward to new Al Powerbooks soon .

Originally posted by john123
Dude, I couldn't disagree with you more. Let's go point-by-point:

*Runs cooler: Uh, no. The case won't affect the temperature at which it runs -- only heat dissipation. In other words, maybe you'll have hotter hands like lots of people have reported with the 12" PB. Gee, great, burns...

* Still around an inch thick: how is it a major revision on this point if it's the same as the old?

* AE/antenna: nice feature, yes. Wireless is the only definite upgrade here in my mind.

* SuperDrive: as before, how is it a major revision on this point if it's the same as the old?

* Price: all speculation here

* FireWire800: In my mind, what a waste. FireWire400's bus is rarely saturated. This is a sales gimmick for now and little more. The only FW800 devices out now that I know of are hard drives, and there you'll be limited by the drive itself and its concomitant rpm rather than the enclosure and bus used to transmit the data.

And then there are definite DOWNGRADES in the graphics card, and the loss of OS 9 bootability, and the loss of 54 vertical pixels...

I don't see this as a major revision...just another product to keep Apple lovers oohing and aahing over the newest thing on the block. If they introduce it, discontinuing the TiBook would be a big mistake...

[seamuskrat]

Originally posted by Eric-C
I did a little research on the heat conductivity issue. First, heat conductivity is directly proportional to electrical conductivity since it they both depend on moving electrons. Heat conductivity is measured in Watts per meter per Kelvin. It just so happens that Aluminum's heat conductivity is 237 W/m-K while titanium is 21.9W/m-K. These numbers are at 300K(or about 23 degrees C) and 1 atm(pressure at sea level). What does this mean? I'm not really sure. However, I can at least speculate that the higher heat conductivity value, the higher the rate of heat dissipation. That would mean the aluminum dissipates at least 10 times faster?? That would be a significant difference I think...

Does anyone happen to be an authority in this branch of physics?
In real world terms. It means that an Al case will cool faster than a Ti case. So both cases WILL get warm, but the Al will release the heat to the surrounding air faster and more efficiently, thus cooling the powerbook better, although to our feel it would appear to be the same.

[Eric-C]

That makes sense. It doesn't matter what case you use, the same heat within the computer will be generated. The question is which case one gets rid of the heat faster.

Thanks for the clear up.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Eric-C
That makes sense. It doesn't matter what case you use, the same heat within the computer will be generated. The question is which case one gets rid of the heat faster.

Thanks for the clear up.

haha! i was right. the 12" is just too much hot sauce for that bowl of chili!

I think this would mean, on bigger alubooks, that they will handle the heat better. i mean, one of the problems i see with my TiBook is that after it get's hot, it tends to stay hot, and the fans stay on for quite awhile. most people honestly don't spend most of their time working their computers hard, so it would be nice if, after they did, the things would cool off real snappy like.

[john123]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
don't like how you sound really annoyed that they do this, but i agree that it's not a big thing. if they go DDR 333 AND keep the 1 MB L3 cache, i think you will see an overall improvement there, looking at the 17 inch performance. that's the only other potential upgrade i see here. and honestly, i don't think any of this is really worth it (except maybe AE if you have use for it) if you lose pixels.

Oh it's great that people ooh and aah...it's what keeps Apple in business with its relatively small market share.

But the bad part about it is that such a loyal user base really doesn't demand terrific innovation from Apple. Case in point, you refer to DDR333 RAM, which would be good, except for the fact that the PowerBook will use a 7455 PPC processor, which can't take advantage of DDR-RAM. That sucks. Granted, there's a strong argument to be made that Motorola's slow development on the 7457 processor line isn't Apple's fault...but if I were Apple, I would have been looking at other chip options starting a long time ago.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by john123
Oh it's great that people ooh and aah...it's what keeps Apple in business with its relatively small market share.

But the bad part about it is that such a loyal user base really doesn't demand terrific innovation from Apple. Case in point, you refer to DDR333 RAM, which would be good, except for the fact that the PowerBook will use a 7455 PPC processor, which can't take advantage of DDR-RAM. That sucks. Granted, there's a strong argument to be made that Motorola's slow development on the 7457 processor line isn't Apple's fault...but if I were Apple, I would have been looking at other chip options starting a long time ago.

have you looked at my sig? i'm not a fan of Moto either :). regardless of whether DDR is instrumental in speeding the system, it DOES give minor speed increases, as demonstrated by the Powermacs' delve into this area. if they ADD DDR without taking away L3 (which they wrongfully [i think] took out of DP 1 GHz PMacs when they added DDR with the advent of DP 1.25 GHz PMacs) there should be a net speed increase. there is of course a bottleneck at the system bus, but it still gets help, i think. or was that just because they upped the PMacs to 166 MHz buses that time around? bah, i dunno. we'll see.

[iAndy]

Originally posted by jfink
Also big question.. Can the Airport card talk to my exisiting Linksys Wireless 802.11b access point...
Hi Jeff - as someone has already mentioned, (existing) Airport cards certainly work with the Linksys 802.11b WAP (and presumably the new Airport Extreme do as well). BUT I have had problems getting my Airport card to work with the Linksys WAP when 128bit WEP is enabled. Maybe it's just me, or my config, but the Airport card only operates well with WEP once the Linksys WAP is rebooted and no other PCs are trying to access the web at the same time. Fortunately this is not a problem at our home, and I would rather occasionally have to reboot the WAP, than have a neighbour accidentally log onto my network :)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by iAndy
Hi Jeff - as someone has already mentioned, (existing) Airport cards certainly work with the Linksys 802.11b WAP (and presumably the new Airport Extreme do as well). BUT I have had problems getting my Airport card to work with the Linksys WAP when 128bit WEP is enabled. Maybe it's just me, or my config, but the Airport card only operates well with WEP once the Linksys WAP is rebooted and no other PCs are trying to access the web at the same time. Fortunately this is not a problem at our home, and I would rather occasionally have to reboot the WAP, than have a neighbour accidentally log onto my network :)

I don't use encryption, myself, but i do use MAC address limitation. i guess you can spoof that though, huh? but don't you have to know what address to spoof?

[seamuskrat]

Wow. I must remember to word things carefully on these here forums...
The amount of energy in terms of watts generated by a laptop processor is insignificant in terms of the cooling coefficient/surface area ratio of a laptop. Meaning a 12 inch powerbook will cool like a 15 inch or 17 inch assuming the processors generate the same heat energy.
You are correct in stating that an Al book would cool faster than a Ti book. The one 12 Powerbook I saw at the Apple store was not nearly as warm as my gen 1 ti 400 runs.
Using an IR thermometer I get a hot spot of 113 F on my laptop with a range of 88 to 107 around the hot spot. I will try to take an image of the laptop with an IR camera to show what I mean. But a Al book would have an overall cooler and equalized surface temperature.
Hopefully that makes sense for everyone.
Originally posted by Shadowfax
haha! i was right. the 12" is just too much hot sauce for that bowl of chili!

I think this would mean, on bigger alubooks, that they will handle the heat better. i mean, one of the problems i see with my TiBook is that after it get's hot, it tends to stay hot, and the fans stay on for quite awhile. most people honestly don't spend most of their time working their computers hard, so it would be nice if, after they did, the things would cool off real snappy like.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by seamuskrat
Wow. I must remember to word things carefully on these here forums...
The amount of energy in terms of watts generated by a laptop processor is insignificant in terms of the cooling coefficient/surface area ratio of a laptop. Meaning a 12 inch powerbook will cool like a 15 inch or 17 inch assuming the processors generate the same heat energy.
You are correct in stating that an Al book would cool faster than a Ti book. The one 12 Powerbook I saw at the Apple store was not nearly as warm as my gen 1 ti 400 runs.
Using an IR thermometer I get a hot spot of 113 F on my laptop with a range of 88 to 107 around the hot spot. I will try to take an image of the laptop with an IR camera to show what I mean. But a Al book would have an overall cooler and equalized surface temperature.
Hopefully that makes sense for everyone.

maybe, but consider airflow. a lot of heat dissipation is from the fan blowing air through--i would imagine, on a little thing like the 12 inch powerbook, as many of the SAME things are tied into a smaller package, that the airflow is rather more constricted than on a 15 or 17 inch powerbook. the elimination of this source of heat dissipation aggravates the amount of heat dissipated by conduction onto the bottom of the laptop and (presumably) your leg. just a thought; i haven't messed with them to know they run hot, i had just heard that they did. i don't think that playing with it in the Apple store qualifies as testing it for food/leg cookability either.

so to tie this to my chili analogy, surface area doesn't just include the bottom/surface of the laptop. you have to deal with the constriction of the volume of air held in the laptop, but mostly how fast it can move it through.

[macphoria]

-----so to tie this to my chili analogy, surface area doesn't just include the bottom/surface of the laptop. you have to deal with the constriction of the volume of air held in the laptop, but mostly how fast it can move it through.

So I presume 15 & 17 inch PB being thinner than 12 inch PB would have some sort of effect on cooling and air flow?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by macphoria
-----so to tie this to my chili analogy, surface area doesn't just include the bottom/surface of the laptop. you have to deal with the constriction of the volume of air held in the laptop, but mostly how fast it can move it through.

So I presume 15 & 17 inch PB being thinner than 12 inch PB would have some sort of effect on cooling and air flow?

it's likely, but i can't honestly speak on how different the actual air volume each holds is. i just know that the 12 inch is smaller overall, having seen one, and owning a 15 inch. the explanation is just an attempt to account for the 12 inch ones running hotter (over a period of time) than the tiBooks, if indeed such as the case. but i don't know if that's even true and am too lazy to go to read about user experiences right now.

[DaveyNL]

I have seen no speculation on this so far but with the PowerBook line expanding down to 12"and the next 15" increasing in size to 15,4" this leave a nice gap for a 14" powerbook with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

There is a 14" iBook why not a 14"Powerbook?

A 14"model could be some 3.5 cm less wide. It should be cheaper then the 15.4"as the 14"screens are standard issue but still have DVI out and a PCMCIA port. A nice pricepoint would be $2399.

I would buy it!

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by DaveyNL
I have seen no speculation on this so far but with the PowerBook line expanding down to 12"and the next 15" increasing in size to 15,4" this leave a nice gap for a 14" powerbook with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

There is a 14" iBook why not a 14"Powerbook?

A 14"model could be some 3.5 cm less wide. It should be cheaper then the 15.4"as the 14"screens are standard issue but still have DVI out and a PCMCIA port. A nice pricepoint would be $2399.

I would buy it!

the 15 inch is not that much bigger than a 14 in terms of space, as it is widescreen. the rumor about 15.4 inch powerbooks is based on the fact of various Apple LCD suppliers purveying 15.4 inch LCDs. i don't think they would slap an iBook 14.1 inch on a powerbook, because, as is mentioned, the size difference is negligible, but also because the 14.1 inch iBook LCD is not a very pixel-dense screen. you're losing a lot of pixels compared to the 15 inch without a significant drop in size or weight (presumably), and you aren't gaining anything in pixels over the 12 inch, while increasing the size and (presumably) the weight a good bit over it.

mostly, though, the fact that apple is not getting a really nice new 14.1 inch TFT (that i know of) really makes this rumor much more unfounded than the 15.4 inch one.

I also doubt they are going to keep the old 15.2 inch on after an update to 15.4, except as more expensive "Need OS 9 Still?" computers. i don't think this leaves any real gap. they are all stratified by 2 inches from the next one up/down.

[macphoria]

Why no 14 inch PowerBook? Because Apple likes to keep their products distinguished in certain increments. Display lines for example has 17, 20, and 23. 3 inch increment. So in terms of laptops there is 12, 15, and 17 in 2 inch increment. 14 inch will only break the rhythm. ;-)

[john123]

Uh...did those of you who wrote the last two posts finish grammar school?

15 - 12 = 3, not 2....

[macphoria]

-----Uh...did those of you who wrote the last two posts finish grammar school?

-----15 - 12 = 3, not 2....

Ha, you are right. Alright then, 14 inch PowerBook it is!

[kidtronix]

OK I'm in the ring and I got my boxing gloves on...

Al.book will have a few things new (here goes!)

- DDR333 Memory (yeah yeah yeah, doesn't slow it down now does it?)
- Ultra ATA/100 (for dummies, faster harddrives?)
- Faster SuperDrive (2x instead of 1x, correct)
- FireWire 800 (stupid new format, but yeah, faster)
- AirPort Extreme built-in (hey I just bought an Extreme base so...)
- Bluetooth built-in (no stupid thing pointing out now! for my T68i)
- Backlit keyboard
- New coating (duh!)

No one knows (it's all rumors!)....

- what resolution it will have, but I don't think it will change
- if the case will be bigger (0,2"). doubt it. doesn't sound likely.
- what gfx card it will have - apple has done weird things than putting in a new

Giddy-up.

:eek:

[trebblekicked]

The heat issue is a big one, i'd say. although i've never been hurt by my tibook, the bottom gets pretty damn hot. These past two days, i had to do a marathon edit at a coworker's house (he worked on his dual p4, i used my tibook). I used FCP and after effects for about 11 hours in a row (no restarting). When i picked up my tibook at the end of the night, the spot on the counter where it had sat all night was very warm to the touch and slightly discolored. This is the newest tibook, BTW.

Another BTW: his PC had to restart to refresh RAM every 30 minutes, and it froze twice! LOL.

[john123]

Originally posted by kidtronix
OK I'm in the ring and I got my boxing gloves on...

Al.book will have a few things new (here goes!)

- DDR333 Memory (yeah yeah yeah, doesn't slow it down now does it?)
- Ultra ATA/100 (for dummies, faster harddrives?)
- Faster SuperDrive (2x instead of 1x, correct)
- FireWire 800 (stupid new format, but yeah, faster)
- AirPort Extreme built-in (hey I just bought an Extreme base so...)
- Bluetooth built-in (no stupid thing pointing out now! for my T68i)
- Backlit keyboard
- New coating (duh!)

No one knows (it's all rumors!)....

- what resolution it will have, but I don't think it will change
- if the case will be bigger (0,2"). doubt it. doesn't sound likely.
- what gfx card it will have - apple has done weird things than putting in a new

Giddy-up.

:eek:

Hmm. I don't think so on some things.

First of all, people are assuming it'll be DDR333. We may just see DDR266, thereby separating the 15" and the 17". Just a thought.

But anyway, since the SuperDrive in the 17" will be 1x, the SuperDrive in the 15" will be 1x as well.

Resolution with be 1280x800. That's been all but confirmed.

And my guess is you'll see a GeForce 440Go in there.

[DavPeanut]

Originally posted by macphoria
-----Uh...did those of you who wrote the last two posts finish grammar school?

-----15 - 12 = 3, not 2....

Ha, you are right. Alright then, 14 inch PowerBook it is!
13 inch, not 14!

[macphoria]

-----13 inch, not 14!

Yea well, the original argument was for making 14 inch PowerBook vs reason for not making one. And my argument, though mathematically flawed it was, was that PB line varied by 2 inch increment, making it unnecessary for 14 inch.

At any rate, I believe 12 and 15 inch versions are perfect. 12 inch has nice compact form factor whereas 15 is still portable and powerful. There is no need for something to go between. I think 17 inch is an overkill, though I would never return it if someone gave it to me for free.

[NanoDoc]

Originally posted by macphoria
-----13 inch, not 14!

Yea well, the original argument was for making 14 inch PowerBook vs reason for not making one. And my argument, though mathematically flawed it was, was that PB line varied by 2 inch increment, making it unnecessary for 14 inch.

At any rate, I believe 12 and 15 inch versions are perfect. 12 inch has nice compact form factor whereas 15 is still portable and powerful. There is no need for something to go between. I think 17 inch is an overkill, though I would never return it if someone gave it to me for free.

The point that is really being missed by the original poster of this hypothetical 14" PB is that there is NO way that Apple would crank out 4 seperate PB's. I mean, seriously, think of what is really happening here behind the scenes. Apple would be cranking out four entirely seperate production lines. Two of them would be so closely related (14&15) that people would clearly choose the 15 most often because the larger size w/o any "real" increase in weight. So, why would they put any money into developing, marketing, and producing a fourth PB.
Next, as far as the ATI vs. Nvidia debate, wake up because this is not a debate. Clearly, Apple has chosen the Nvidia company to make their video processors for this revision to the PB. Which, if there is a 15 Al PB out there in waiting, it will be part of this grand switch from Ti to Al PB's. Why would they contract with two seperate companies for their laptops? It is to much extra hassel to do so. In the case of the PowerMacs that one can switch out a video card with the greatest of ease, allows for having multiple companies, but with the PB you can not just plop a different vid. processor onto each motherboard.

[Death2PCs]

http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

thats solves your aspect ratio. its 4:3

as far as a 14 pb... it wont happen. theres no reason to have it. as stated eariler, the 12 is nice and compact... the 15 is where the features come into play.

the 17 is in a league of its own, and realistically apple cannot plan on selling quantities of the 17inch on a comparable level with the 15inch. reason being... the 15 is enough for almost anyone. the 17 appeals to a business market, and as far as the basic consumer is concerned, unless you have an extra $500+ dollars sitting around you wont get it.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Death2PCs
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/specs.html

thats solves your aspect ratio. its 4:3


what is? the 12 inch is, yeah.

the 15.2 is 3:2.

the 17 is 16:10.

15.2-inch (diagonal) built-in TFT display (15-inch models)
- Support for millions of colors at 1280-by-854-pixel resolution
- Support for resolutions of 1280 by 854, 1152 by 768, 896 by 600, 720 by 480, and 640 by 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio
17-inch (diagonal) TFT display (17-inch models)
- Support for millions of colors at 1440-by-900-pixel resolution
- Supported resolutions: 1440 by 900 (native), 1152 by 720, 1024 by 640, and 800 by 500 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio

They do non-native resolutions that are 4:3 by letterboxing them in. they do their native resolutions at 3:2 for the 15.2 and 16:10 for the new 17.

[jamilecrire]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
haha! i was right. the 12" is just too much hot sauce for that bowl of chili!

I think this would mean, on bigger alubooks, that they will handle the heat better. i mean, one of the problems i see with my TiBook is that after it get's hot, it tends to stay hot, and the fans stay on for quite awhile. most people honestly don't spend most of their time working their computers hard, so it would be nice if, after they did, the things would cool off real snappy like.

The 17" is cool compared to most laptops (my Pentium 133 mmx, Pentium III 1130, Apple Powerbook 867). The 133 is warm, the 867 is borderline hot, and the 1130 is piping hot > two fans that sound like a jet engine. I've handled a 17" at the "local" apple store and it was significantly cooler than the 867 Powerbook. They didn't have any 1GHz TiBooks on display to compare with but they did have a 800MHz TiBook which I heard was a heater.

[aytoun]

i'm personally looking forward to another 15" pb.
don't get me wrong, i love the look of the 17", but
it is a bit much to carry around. i cycle 10 miles a
day and carry my pb G3 with me in a back-pack,
and travel to NYC by plane regularly. in both these
situations weight and size are premium and i think
a 17" is a little too large, so it's the 15" for me.

fortunatley i have a budget currently going through
approval so in a couple of weeks i will be in a
position to buy... hope the new pb 15" machines
are available, i don't really want to have to wait...

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by aytoun
i'm personally looking forward to another 15" pb.
don't get me wrong, i love the look of the 17", but
it is a bit much to carry around. i cycle 10 miles a
day and carry my pb G3 with me in a back-pack,
and travel to NYC by plane regularly. in both these
situations weight and size are premium and i think
a 17" is a little too large, so it's the 15" for me.

fortunatley i have a budget currently going through
approval so in a couple of weeks i will be in a
position to buy... hope the new pb 15" machines
are available, i don't really want to have to wait...

lol, it sounds like you need the ultraportable 12 inch, unless you do some heavy lifting that requires 1 GHz &c.

[macphoria]

I know rumors suggest 15 inch PowerBook in February, but I think it just won't happen till middle of this year.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by macphoria
I know rumors suggest 15 inch PowerBook in February, but I think it just won't happen till middle of this year.

I'll bet that's going to butcher 15 inch sales, but maybe that is how apple will try to push the 17" on people.

[Death2PCs]

i just want to make it clear that i REALLY want the 15 inch powerbook. ive ben anxiously awaiting this since 1/7/03.

apple wont wait much later to release the 15in albook, because people (like myself) will wait until it is availible to buy one. waiting (that long) will only hurt their sales.

the 12 inch is nice but i want (as im pretty shure that most people do to) the faster processor and other features that you will find in the 17 inch model. and i think most people find the 17 inch model overkill for everyday use, and are hoping that the 15 inch features will be nothing [much] less than the 17 inch.

so... by putting off the 15 inch model for an extended period of time, i think they will only kill sales of the 15 inch, and not entirely "force" people to get the 17 inch. from my own point of view... i would get the 12 inch before the 17 inch.

i dont necessarily think that they will release the 15 inch this month, i think that all this hype will get many people making unrealistic guesses and conclusions as to what apple will do. but, as we all know, apple has been known to do alot of unexpected things/announcements. i believe you can expect 15 inch powerbooks in the near future. maybe not this month, but definately before summer (probably sometime in march to early april)....

but what do i know, im just making guesses like [I]the rest of us.

--

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Death2PCs
i just want to make it clear that i REALLY want the 15 inch powerbook. ive ben anxiously awaiting this since 1/7/03.

apple wont wait much later to release the 15in albook, because people (like myself) will wait until it is availible to buy one. waiting (that long) will only hurt their sales.

the 12 inch is nice but i want (as im pretty shure that most people do to) the faster processor and other features that you will find in the 17 inch model. and i think most people find the 17 inch model overkill for everyday use, and are hoping that the 15 inch features will be nothing [much] less than the 17 inch.

so... by putting off the 15 inch model for an extended period of time, i think they will only kill sales of the 15 inch, and not entirely "force" people to get the 17 inch. from my own point of view... i would get the 12 inch before the 17 inch.

i dont necessarily think that they will release the 15 inch this month, i think that all this hype will get many people making unrealistic guesses and conclusions as to what apple will do. but, as we all know, apple has been known to do alot of unexpected things/announcements. i believe you can expect 15 inch powerbooks in the near future. maybe not this month, but definately before summer (probably sometime in march to early april)....

but what do i know, im just making guesses like [I]the rest of us.

--

Well the thing is, most of us always wait for the next revision of anything and everything, and I would say that most of the time Apple don't and won't care, because Joe Public goes to the Apple Store and buys the stuff.
Now, in this instance, rumour sites have been going on about this update for almost 1.5 months, ever since the 2 new AlBoolks came out. So (smart) Joe Public is starting to think that a new 15" is going to come out (it MAKES SENSE). And he doesn't need to read Macrumors.com to come to that conclusion (that helps but he can think it over...). And that's when it becomes a problem for Apple, because it impact sales of the existing model.
So, my point is, NO, I don't think that Apple can keep it for much longer before updating the 15". Some not-so-common sense would say just after the first 17" are received...

NicoMan

[gameboy]

The computerstore in UC Irvine reduced the price of 15inch 1ghz superdrive to $1999 a last week (was it last monday or something)

3 units were in stock and they were sold out that morning. Then the store ordered more units (25) from Apple and they arrived this tuesday (the day before yesterday) and they are going to be sold out too.

The next shippment will arrive the next week (I guess tuesday or something and not sure how many units.) Kinda giving me a feeling that the new one will not come out next week :( But what do i know.

Of course they don't have any clue about the new 15.4inch one.

Just observation...........

[FlamDrag]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Joe Public goes to the Apple Store and buys the stuff. NicoMan

I wish. Reality is that Joe Public goes to the Dell Store and buys the stuff. Or CompUSA/BestBuy...

[proff]

Hi Guys im a potential 'switcher'! I have a sony vaio which i just broke accidently and while i never would have considered an Apple a few years ago after using the LC11 s at school, the powerbook has enticed me after I had a go with my friend's Ti500.
I want to wait though until the new 15.4 alubook comes out like most of you. This is primarily because of the new widescreen (well 16:10) "industry leading (colour saturation 75% and high brightness and contrast etc)" LCD screen, new durable and cool looking aluminium enclosure and also the fact that the new combo drive is 24x rather than 8x! bluetooth, firewire 800 and airport extreme are nice but to me personally are not that critical at the moment. Also the backlight will be an important factor for me, partly as it's cool, partly as i would use the laptop in the dark a lot and partly as it's another feature to differentiate it from the rival Wintel World!

Dunno about this new fsb and DDR RAM architecture, im hoping that the preliminary benchmarks are either not representive of real world performance (as some maintain Xbench isnt) or are the result of early preproduction drivers.

I as a gamer am dissapointed that Apple have decided to go for the Nvidia geforce 440 go but i think there is a crucial economical reason for this; cost! Nvidia blatanlty went to Apple and said give us this contract and we will undercut ATI by a significant margin. However another reason that im hoping Apple have gone with Nvidia is so that they will soon (ie in less than 6 months) upgrade the powerbook line to the new NV31M chip (this will probably be announced at Cebit March 12th along with possibly ATI's new mobile chip codenamed M10) which should blow the Radeon 9000 out of the water. I'm actually less concerned about gaming as really Apple's aren't great for that, particularly when compared to my Dell 3Ghz with a Radeon 9700 Pro. What i do care about though is battery life and DVD playback and 2D quality and I've heard this is worse with the geforce 4 440 go. is this true and to what extent?
Another factor for me, (though of little importance to die hard mac fans), is the imminent release of the new Intel Centrino chipset (wifi and Pentium-M (banias)) processor which is very fast (tomshardware outperformance 2.4 Ghz pentium 4 M in MOST (rather than just Photoshop for the G4!;) ) situations. Also PCs with this processor can have battery life even longer than the powerbook (6 hours with one battery) and are small enough to fit into ultraportables less than 1 inch thick. This would be very attractive to potential switchers like me and if apple do not release the 15.4 update soon i will have little choice to buy a new Sony Vaio or Toshiba etc.
Also, could u clear up a couple of things, is 512MB DDR 333 RAM enough for Mac OS X, if you will be predominantly usinf Safari , iPhoto, iTunes and Office as I have heard many people talk of OS X being very memory hungry and u need 1GB ! or is that just for Photoshop and Final cut professionals? Apple is clever however as i probably wouldnt have considered a mack if had not been for the Student Discount which will save me close to £200 ($300)!
I am personally hoping that it will anounce the new 15.4 alubook next Tuesday (25th Feb) and keep the Ti line available for OS 9 until supply is completely depleted.

[janey]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
I want a 15.4 ALbook sooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad
do you want me to get you one if apple ever comes out with them?

[hart808]

Seems to me ever so slightly suspicious that the rumor is 15.4", when that is the exact length of the 17" case.

Not that I doubt a replacement model on the 15", mind you...

cheers --

808

[wsteineker]

So is there any word when or even if we should expect a 15" PowerBook update? I'm getting a fat grant check in the next few weeks and I'd sure love to blow it all on a new 15" AlBook. That said, I haven't seen anything terribly concrete in any of these posts about updates. It seems like this is even more speculative than iPod updates. Anyone got any new info? Thanks!

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by wsteineker
So is there any word when or even if we should expect a 15" PowerBook update? I'm getting a fat grant check in the next few weeks and I'd sure love to blow it all on a new 15" AlBook. That said, I haven't seen anything terribly concrete in any of these posts about updates. It seems like this is even more speculative than iPod updates. Anyone got any new info? Thanks!
I think anything new and important on them will be posted on page 1 or 2 rumors, page 1 if the info is reliable. the apple hardware scene has been quite for 3 weeks or so now, so hopefully something will pop up soon. maybe your 15 inch albook!

[wsteineker]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I think anything new and important on them will be posted on page 1 or 2 rumors, page 1 if the info is reliable. the apple hardware scene has been quite for 3 weeks or so now, so hopefully something will pop up soon. maybe your 15 inch albook!

Word. Thanks Shadow. I should have figured that I just needed to bide my time and keep watching Page 1 and 2. I guess PowerBook lust just got to me!

[Apple][Forever]

remember folks, arn was the only source (as far as i know) of 12" and 17" PB rumors befor MWSF. I think he would get reliable info before an introduction.

As for me, I love my iBook 12". Best. Laptop. Ever. Now, if I didn't have the Franken-Blue-and-White G4, I'd go for the the 12" PB... G4 for running DVD Studio Pro et al and the kickass iBook form factor.

My GF has a TiBook and it just seems too fragile for me, being an iBook owner. But... I played with a pre-production 17" PB at the Apple Store, and a 12" at Micro Center, and they both feel like they're machined out of a solid block of metal. Just unbelievable on the fit-and-finish. So, even if a new 15" AlBook comes out with nothing new but the enclosure, it would still be worth looking at.

Where one would wear a watch while using it, my GF's Ti is all scratched up- lots of paint nicks on the left below the KB. And, the screen is getting blurry too--she's taking it in for service soon. Whereas, my iBook, which has had a rougher life overall, is spotless, Concours-clean.

The iBook, with a 1280x1024 screen that goes all the way to the edges of the bezel, and a 1GHz G4, would be the killer laptop of the ages. Throw away your Pismos, your Wallstreets, your Tis, call the neighbors, lock the dog in the kitchen--that laptop would be a killer. Blood would run through the streets and locusts would descend upon Redmond, and Steve Ballmer would be hung at dawn on the outskirts of the Microsoft campus. Linus Torvalds would have a six-color Apple tattooed on his forehead and would lead the throngs of Unwashed in a mass dance party through the Capitol.

[Grimace]

So now that the 17s are shipping - anyone have any idea about a 15.4 release?? I have a few friends that work for Apple and they hinted at the end of the month. Any ideas?

[macphoria]

15" PowerBook/Albook? My guess is April/May, following Apple's 6 months update cycle.

[t^3]

Still patiently waiting for the 15" AlBooks to come out, I decided to do a little math to see what the size would be, based on a 15.4" screen, 16:10 ratio, and the same bezel space as the 17":

15.2" TiBook:
9.5inx13.4in

15.4" AlBook:
9.35inx14.04in

So it looks like that it'll be slightly shallower, but a good 0.6in wider than the TiBooks.

[Grimace]

Sounds good. When the 15.4 is announced - is it likely that it will be immediately available or will Apple announce it and have it actually ship a month later??

[t^3]

This is completely based on speculation, but I think that if the 15" is going to be updated soon to bring it up to the 12" and 17" models, it's going to be shipping immediately, since the technology is already there in the 17", which is just beginning to ship already. If however, Apple decides to wait until whenever the 12" and 17" models to be revised, or decides to separate it from those two by having higher specs, we might see a delay instead.

[Grimace]

Well, I think we are all assuming that the 15.4 will ship sometime in the next two months. It wouldn't make sense for Apple to wait until the next update of the 12 and 17" to update the 15.x. That would be many months off.

[jokkka]

i was all up in this switching to apple thing but now with the Pentium M centrino business it doesnt seem to make sense. apples dont have the battery life, compatibility, and performance isnt significantly better than these new intels. plus apple is more expensive and the support is hella expensive ($350 who r u kidding?) and they cant get their stuff together with releasing the 15 PB. theres always hope i suppose with the deep discounts at some universities... (stanford sells the 1ghz superdrive 15" Ti for $1800, dayum).

[Grimace]

As a PC user for the past 10 years, I can honestly say that the new M-chips aren't all that. Ok, they have WIFI capability built in - big deal - they are still slower.

As far as getting their act together on the 15.4 PB, they are exactly where they are supposed to be - every 6months they update. No PC company does that.

Applecare is an extension warranty - you always get 1 year free. With PC companies, you must buy the warranty at the outset.

Compatability?? What program do you need that isn't available for macs? Whatever it is, you can still load XP Pro and PC programs onto a mac - does any PC do the reverse? No.

If you want a lighter, better built machine - choose Apple. If you want a heavy glorified typewriter that is cheaper - go Dell dude. Just don't whine about having to buy a new one in 2 years or when you lose a .dll file.

PC companies make computing devices for the masses - the market is there and they fill the void. Apple makes computers for business, pleasure, and productivity better than anyone else. If cost is your beef - ok, get a job. Don't rant on quality when you don't know the full story.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by jokkka
i was all up in this switching to apple thing but now with the Pentium M centrino business it doesnt seem to make sense. apples dont have the battery life, compatibility, and performance isnt significantly better than these new intels. plus apple is more expensive and the support is hella expensive ($350 who r u kidding?) and they cant get their **** together with releasing the 15 PB. theres always hope i suppose with the deep discounts at some universities... (stanford sells the 1ghz superdrive 15" Ti for $1800, dayum).

:rolleyes: Hasta La Vista, Baby!!

[Grimace]

Considering that the 15.4 PBs should come out in April some time, that would put their release a few months after the 12 and 17" were released. Would it make sense for Apple to drop the price on these two a bit when the 15.4 is released??

[Winston Smith]

Ok as this is potentially my dream machine I'm watching this closely.

The UK Apple Store currently has a wait time of 6-8 days after being plentiful for ages.
US is still 1-2 days.
May just be a customs hangup or maybe its time:D

As April is on the horizon the 6 month update schedule is about due........:)

[GrizzlyHippo]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
...or maybe its time:D


I really hope Apple pulls their heads out of their a*ses quickly and launch this thing. I was all ready to buy a 15" in Jan until I saw the specs of the 12" and 17" and thought I'd wait for them to be iin the 15"...

Surely they know most professional users will buy the 15", not the 12" (too small) or 17" (too big). By holding the product back they are doing themselves out of easy sales. I really don't understand the logic, if they possess any.

JUST LAUNCH IT... NOW.

OK, calm down, more coffee, NO, less coffee, calm down...:eek: :eek:

[GrizzlyHippo]

I just heard from a friend who has a friend who works at a computer store, that Apple are delivering new 15.6" 3D screen (not 15.4" TFT) PowerBooks running 7457's at 1.42Ghz next Tuesday.

Tuesday's are traditional launch days, but next Tuesday???:D ...

GrizzlyHeeHee.

I wonder what else will be rumoured for launch next Tuesday...

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by GrizzlyHippo
I just heard from a friend who has a friend who works at a computer store, that Apple are delivering new 15.6" 3D screen (not 15.4" TFT) PowerBooks running 7457's at 1.42Ghz next Tuesday.

Tuesday's are traditional launch days, but next Tuesday???:D ...

GrizzlyHeeHee.

I wonder what else will be rumoured for launch next Tuesday...


See, that's not funny because I almost believed you for a second. It went something like, "Oh dear sweet everything, thank you for making my dreams . . . wait a minute . . . damn it"

Please Apple, bring out the new 15 inchers next tuesday (April Fools!).

[DrGonzo]

his grammar is horrible, after reading the first line i knew there was nothing to it. BUT GOD DAMNIT i want my new 15" powerbook