Pissed Of Switcher - Wheres My Mac Stevo Jobs?

[Heart Break Kid]

ok
So i just switched. I had a horrible Dell that kept crashing and finally decided to buy me a mac. Put my order in for the 17 inch powerbook G4 with 1 gig ram. heres my porblem. Why in the hell is it gonna take 3 months for it to get here???????????????????????? i took a chance on apple and dished out nearly $5000 on the PB and some software and the least they could do is deliver it in a timley efficient manner. i know im getting a good machine, but 3 months is an insane wait. if they seriously expect people to switch and also wait for 1/4 year before they get there computer they got another thing coming. this is no way to do buisness. max delivery time should be 2 weeks. my god...i may have had my problems with dell but atleast they got me the computer on time....i had a computer to bitch about but apple doesnt even do that much.

and another thing. i called the apple store to check why it was taking so damn long and ive never heard from anyone as rude and aragont as the assclown who answered the phone. theres no excuse for crap like this.

i know alot of people who've ordered the 17in PB's are pretty pissed that our comp's havent got here.


seriously considering switching my ass back to Dell. Atleast i had a computer....a crappy one no doubt...but it was less then 1/2 the price i paid for this and it showed up 5 days after i ordered it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Cancel your order,find the nearest apple store and walk in and say you want one now! 3 months is bull,3 more months and they will have a newer one out.

[nanosound]

Yeah, I don't think Apple is enticing switchers who have to wait a very long time, nor the regular Apple users. But they do this every year. Last year it was the imac that people had to wait for. It is very frustrating to say the least. Why does Apple do this?

[dricci]

Originally posted by nanosound
Why does Apple do this?

My guess is they're still setting up the factory for mass production of them.

Why'd you place an order if you knew you'd have to wait 3 months? I'm pretty sure they tell you somewhere before you check out.

[Heart Break Kid]

i placed it online
and at the time it said i should be getting mine within 5 weeks max

that was bad enough
but to have it pushed back to "on or before 4/25" is crazy

god...and its not just APPLE who i blame for making me feel this way

its Aspyr for making Medal of Honor: AA and having it at my doorstep 2 days after i ordered it.....making me have a wicked game with no mac to play it on

but also Arlo Rose who releases Konfabulator while i dont have a mac
god damn it...and all these awsome applications that i want to use but i cant because Apple pushed back my delivery date


im soooo frustrated...its like teasing a crack head with drugs...its soo unfair...so very unfair


god i just wanna take that private jet of stevo jobs and stick it in his bung hole

[Eniregnat]

Wow- Not meaning to flame, but was this an impulse buy. Moving from a Dell to a 5k$ machine is a big jump.

Look, those that need the 17inch will wait those that can’t wont.

Cancel your order, and decide what you need. I would hope that you would purchase a Mac, but it might not be the computer for you.

Maybe Apple is not for you. From my perspective, for my mobile needs I have permanently switched to Apple. I burnt through 9 laptops before learning that reliability and robustness are important to me, and Apples hardware and OS provide that.

What do you do for a living? Perhaps these members could help you in your decision.

Take a look at the Win-Tel boards. Every time a new chipset comes out, a new motherboard, or sound card people complain about the timing of the product announcement and the actual product release. Apple is not so different.

[Heart Break Kid]

i work at the CDC in atlanta
basically research..aging..aids..cancer...any immuno based diseases

we have a PM G4 there but i wanted a laptop forever
im not gonna buy another lap top

this ones for me
ive already named her (appy)

now. dont tell me i wasted the last 3 hours thinking of a name for no reason

:D

[Eniregnat]

Look, I don’t love Dell, though their customer service for corporate orders is great. Their price for bricks is reasonable, and I can’t complain about that. My whole office would change to Mac if we could, but we can’t. We run specialized applications that we must use for the next decade, and we have office machines that we have shelled a lot of money out for.

But here’s the truth. No one computer fits everybody’s needs.

I have a WordPad Pro that I use on my adventures. It runs off 4AA’s, is text based and rugged as hell. After a bus I was in sunk into a river in Cambodia, I wiped it off and it is good to go. (Ok, I did clean it) I would never risk my iBook on a track into a land with no stable power sources.

Gaming consuls, answering machines, scientific calculators, and media players can all be run on one computer, but may be more useful as separate devices.

I’m glad you have cash to burn, but what are your needs? If you’re a LAN gamer, who has to have access to 99% of all games the day they are released, then Apple is definitely not for you.

I don’t blame you for being pissed. We are westerners, bound to the credo of instant gratification. Look at it this way. You can buy a new Vanquish and have to wait 2 to 5 years for your car to arrive. Why? It’s a niche manufacture that aspires to deliver a fast, quality machine with impeccable design qualities.

What do you do for the CDC? I just had a friend go to NIH and 2 go to the CDC. Your good at what you do if you work there? The competition is though.

[GeeYouEye]

As a general rule, don't post the same topic in two forums... we don't much like spam here. Just a thought.

[Heart Break Kid]

I know
Im not really mad..im just very frustrated

the 17alu book was supposed to be my new toy
supposed to make all the ppl at work ooh'n'ahh when i bring it out
lol

i work on a series of projects for the CDC
mainly with immunological disorders but i also jointly on cancer research as well as influenza

im ok at what i do i guess?

whats your friends name?
do you know what his specialty is?

[Eniregnat]

They wouldn't be to pleased if I posted their names.
As far as their (a him and a her) specialties. I believe one's specialty was protean synthesis (specifically in yeast), and the other was a biophysicist, and I don't know what her specialty is.

I do know that competition for jobs or research positions is very competitive. Add the background checks and you must and the interviewing process and most people would never of applied.

Not to be a police officer, but why did you post this thread in two different forums? You started with the same post. At the top of each forum is a posting by Arn, reminding the community of its obligations. This wastes hd space, bandwidth, and peoples time.

Link to Arn's post (http://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?s=&forumid=1)
A link to the other thread on this same subject. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20389)

[giovanni]

you know, I just posted a similar message to yours (somewhat shorter) and I will tell you more: I have no doubts Apple has already lost several switchers, it simply cannot be otherwise, it is just the way it is. I may add that I would not be surprised if even some old Apple users like us, did themselves switch to windows facing such a pathetic situation at Apple.

I mean, I could possibly understand if it were the case that we are waiting for a new (I mean new like in NEW) machine. But hey, it is just an old G4 ! I mean I guess when Apple will, some day it shall, announce a new computer, lets call it the G5 whatever that is: what will it take to deliver it to customers ?

[Bateman]

There really isn't much they could do about it tho....

I mean, they of course wanted to release it with the 12" at macworld, and they already had the commercials filmed (mini me and yao) for who knows how long. And their time limit isn't yet up. I believe they stated 5 to 7 weeks when it came out.... when people bought they knew what they were getting into... True? That time has yet to expire, we can complain about it being late once its late.

It comes down to this... would you like an apple product that has been rushed because of the minority of people who couldn't wait for the machine to be perfected, or would you like to own a machine that is a worthy investment and has had all the pre-release problems ironed out?

I know a wait is hard but it will be well worth it for those who can wait....

[StevenFW]

There are many points being made here that are prudent...Yes, we want problem free computers delivered in a timely fashion...but let's look at some facts here....they release it at MW for obvious reasons....they promise that it will be available in February, however, many people are being told March or April! Now, whether you are a switcher or not, the facts are the facts, and Apple has not kept their promise...OK, but not a big deal IF, IF, IF they at least gave some idea as to why the delay....people become infuriated because EVERYTHING from Apple has to be cloaked in secrecy, to the point that one has to scour the web to find out about rumors as to why it might be delayed....I think it behooves Apple, at least a little bit, to give people an idea as to why it is delayed....because when they don't, you're left in the dark wondering why you have to wait a quarter of one year (and hey, that is a long time) to hand over more than 3,000 dollars....I too have been waiting patiently for the Powerbook 17", and for me the wait is excrutiating...but for me, it has more to do with something that not too many people have mentioned, and that is the fact that this is Apple's M.O. FOREVER.....the supply/demand issue has been going on since I've been buying Apple products, almost 9 years....they are always way behind, or they have 12 weeks of inventory on hand....you would think that a billion dollar company would have fixed this a long time ago....my feeling is, especially since they said that they are not going to time big releases for MWs anymore, DON'T ANNOUNCE IT UNLESS IT'S READY, or close to being ready....and I guarantee, after all this, the computer will have flaws until revison whatever....as good as the computers are, and yes, no one else can touch Apple quality, they are NOT Honda Accords....they never get it right with the first model...just look at the original TiPB...we all talk about how good it is, but start listing the problems that were there up until the 11/02 Superdrive relase, and you will be listing at least 5-10 MAJOR problems....please don't get me wrong, I will be with Apple forever, I just want to show one side to this...and back to the main issue-if you are coming from the Dell camp, while you will be infinitely happier leaving the Wintel crap, I must agree that coming over and then waiting has to be painful, to say the least...

[LosJackal]

You are being unrealistic if you think a company can ALWAYS wait until a product is (almost) ready to announce it. Look at Microsoft...they just "announced" they'll add Exchange support into Entourage, but it won't be "released" until the summer. That's the software industry. New startup companies announce their products maybe a year or more before they're readily available. Hardware peripherals often announce a few months ahead of time, like a new CD burner technology. Same with eletronics, and many other industries.

So let's talk about this specific product, the 17" PowerBook. It is the culmination of the innovation Apple has been doing over the past year. Contrary to a previous post, it is a completely new machine:
1) Widescreen 17" in a laptop with a new backlight
2) New anodized aluminum case
3) New keyboard with backlighting and ambient light sensors
4) Airport Extreme
5) Built-in Bluetooth
6) Firewire 800
7) DDR RAM
8) New motherboard to run it all

You can certainly bet Apple needs to announce this at a major event like MWSF.

So why couldn't they have it ready to deliver after MWSF? I personally don't know. But there are reasons that could explain it....
a) don't ramp up production yet to preserve secrecy
b) don't know market reaction to it yet
c) don't know how many to manufacture to begin with
d) needed release of 10.2.4
e) needed release of iLife

All in all, 7-10 weeks isn't an unreasonable time frame to have all of that come together. Contrary to some opinion, there are no delays yet. Apple said "in February" and 7-10 weeks from the date of ordering. We haven't passed that mark yet.

[madamimadam]

Firstly, Apple never lies about the ETA on machines;

Secondly, It will take longer because you are getting a CTO on a constrained item;

Thirdly, if you could not wait you should not have placed an order because the AppleStore tells you how long it will take;

Forthly, your machine will NOT take until April, it will be with you in March, despite what Apple tracking tells you. First shipments of that machine are in March and they are usually very quick to fill backorders.

[Heart Break Kid]

god i hope your right

this wait makes me feel like a crack head waiting for his next hit

god damnit
why do they tease me like this? why?
make me fall in love with mac..and then..and then just not put out?

its high school all over again!!


:mad:

[giovanni]

come on dudes, lets be serious. How could you say "..better wait and have a good product than have something rushed to our door...". Or the other dude saying idiotic non sense like "a wait is tough but..." - you are only excused if you are in kindergarden, are you ?. Please think !!! People try to plan things, did you realize that ? people got work to do with their computers , did you realize that ???? And if Apple says 3-5 days to ship, people plan on that, of course, with a margin, but noone would think that Apple could go from a few days to more than a month !!!
Pretty ********g simple, ain't it ?
Moreover, I will say it again, these new macs are just plain old G4s, nothing like wow, the technology is so new, I could understand delays.

boh !

[giovanni]

madamimadam you are so greatly wrong !
As I said in my prior post, Apple does lie (you called lying): many people who ordered the new PMs, including myself, had shipping dates postponed several times (CTOs, yes). So I am not sure what on earth you are dreaming of. Get it ?

[humantech]

I hate to say this, but when the powerbooks were announced, they said they wouldnt be available until sometime in march - that could be march first- could be march 31st--- Currently, it is still mid february - I would wait until you see yours before you worry much more- Stay in the que- if you ordered early, you will get early- Apple seems to be getting into the habit of underpromising on shipping times lately---

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by giovanni
come on dudes, lets be serious. How could you say "..better wait and have a good product than have something rushed to our door...". Or the other dude saying idiotic non sense like "a wait is tough but..." - you are only excused if you are in kindergarden, are you ?. Please think !!! People try to plan things, did you realize that ? people got work to do with their computers , did you realize that ???? And if Apple says 3-5 days to ship, people plan on that, of course, with a margin, but noone would think that Apple could go from a few days to more than a month !!!
Pretty ********g simple, ain't it ?
Moreover, I will say it again, these new macs are just plain old G4s, nothing like wow, the technology is so new, I could understand delays.

boh !

You fool... Apple NEVER said 3-5 days for the 17", ETA is 5-7 weeks even now. Saying that, if you have had an order in for a while it will NOT be 5-7 more weeks but it is that long if you put an order in today.

In the PC they release new products before making them available for sale. In the Mac world they make them available for sale when they release them acknologing that you will not receive the item for a while. Same thing except Apple gets the funds up front.

[Bateman]

Personally I believe that these computers are much more than the "plain old G4" processor in them....

apparently the significance of this event is lost on some people...

undoubtedly people will be reviewing these as something more than "plain old laptops"

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by giovanni
madamimadam you are so greatly wrong !
As I said in my prior post, Apple does lie (you called lying): many people who ordered the new PMs, including myself, had shipping dates postponed several times (CTOs, yes). So I am not sure what on earth you are dreaming of. Get it ?

As per humantech, Apple has ALWAYS said March.... if you have had an order in for a while and they are telling you April than Apple needs to repair bugs in their system because they start shipping in EARLY March.

Get a grip man... your world is not ending. Really, though, you should NEVER EVER CTO unless you ABSOLUTELY have to. Not only does it take longer but Apple's CTO pricing is WAY out. Esp. with RAM, it is WAY cheaper to upgrade to 1GB (if you did this) by getting a 512MB (2 stick) machine, selling the 2x 256MB and buying 2x 512MB from an Apple Reseller. That way, you get Apple RAM with Apple warranty but you get it MUCH MUCH cheaper.

[iJon]

its gonna be ok man, the wait will be worth it. apple said it will ship middle of febuary. its about that time now and like other people said apple stores have gotten them to show. we dont want you to go back to dell. just be calm and wait, this product has been out barely a month and is brand new. i have two macs, if you want to you can come to my house and play medal of honor. or if you want to play something better than that sissy MOH ill set you down at my pc so you can play a little battlefield. but dont worry, your computer will be there soon.

iJon

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Bateman
Personally I believe that these computers are much more than the "plain old G4" processor in them....

apparently the significance of this event is lost on some people...

undoubtedly people will be reviewing these as something more than "plain old laptops"

Too right... and people should at least do some realise that ALL 1GHz Machines are constained. So, YAY, they might be a "JUST" a 1GHz machine but those processors are constrained.

How about you ask Apple to ship you your PowerBook with no processor.... DICKHEAD

[Sayer]

A) Welcome to the world of Mac. The first/original Mac was delayed for years. Get used to it. We all already have.

B) This is a brand new computer. They have to be built and shipped in foreign countries that have different perceptions of schedules and deadlines. And then they must sit in customs for 3-5 weeks while the ass-scratchers decide if they are really laptops or a shipment of toothbrushes.

C) You can get a Dull in a few days because they are actually not brand spankin' new. The motherboard is made by Intel or whomever and sold as one big piece, the case is a rehash of some other Dull model with a different plastic panel "skin" that is assembled/distributed all over the place (including down the road from where I work). The rest of the pieces are just bolted on or thrown in (sound card, graphics cards, drives). Not much engineering or skill required in making it all work. Imagine rows and rows of generic/bland speakers and monitors that sit on shelves waiting only to be sold to some shmuck who thinks "Dude, you're gettin' a Dell" is the greatest market slogan on earth.

D) It's Apple, this always happens. Get used to it. See point A.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by iJon
its gonna be ok man, the wait will be worth it. apple said it will ship middle of febuary. its about that time now and like other people said apple stores have gotten them to show. we dont want you to go back to dell. just be calm and wait, this product has been out barely a month and is brand new. i have two macs, if you want to you can come to my house and play medal of honor. or if you want to play something better than that sissy MOH ill set you down at my pc so you can play a little battlefield. but dont worry, your computer will be there soon.

iJon

You don't work in sales do you iJon?
;)

[humantech]

I'm an Apple specialist reseller - The trend Apple is starting to follow is basically on demand ordering- Why? Because they are held responsible fiscally by their stockholders, and have to balance that responsibility with customer and market needs- Why would they charge you up front? Because they need to buy the stuff to get it built, and to do it any other way is bad business- I mean, really-how many stores can you walk into and say " Order me $5000 worth of stuff and I'll pay you when it shows up" I digress---
Heres how the process works. They announce a new rippin product- They determine the initial order from for their manufacturer based on the pre orders they take at product announcement ( At least on new, hyper cool products)-Based on the initial order than can make an educated guess on how many to initially have built and they make a bulk purchase of the items ( in this case, the powerbook 17) from their manufacturer- ( As you would guess, this keeps the cost per unit down, which is how Apple has dropped their pricing so much in the last few years, still kept margin and been able to invest 500 million a year into R&D to keep making their techo wonders) Now- The manufacturer and apple can kindve guess how many they need to ship, but because of prohibitive shipping prices to bring these things over one at a time from taiwan , they wait for a minimum shipping number to reduce shipping cost and maximize the number of people who can receive the powerbooks at the same time ( Ie- on or before promised on the date of release)- As people wait to purchase, more of the initial order is used up causing Apple to make a second order- Once they get enough quantity for a second order they place it ( that order may be when you've waited a few weeks to order - the actual shipping time on items ordered during that ordering cycle may vary from the promise date of the first ordering cycle-)
After a while Apple can gauge demand of these things and can fill initial consumer demand and get some in stock- Believe me- They are shipping as quickly as they make them ( once the initial orders are filled) - You can see the proof of this when you get a tracking number on your orders from one of the first couple of cycles and see them shipping directly from taiwan to your house Via fedex- Once the items are in stock, it is simple to merely keep the warehouses at a minimum restock level as they can see an average sell through rate-
Keep in mind this descipription has nothing to say about delays of parts to the manufacturers ( Ie screens, Chips, logic boards, custom Asics, etc...) but merely the amount of time it takes to build and send them to you. Also, it doesnt take into account Apple needing to CTO your system for you- basically, somewhere in the orient, someone has to put ram into your machine ( which by the way, could be a delay as well, as everytime Apple releases a new laptop, they generally push the envelope on exisiting Ram specs and there is usually a short term shortage and quality control issue as they get the Ram from ITS manufacturers)
So- it sucks. Cool things. We cant play with them. I too weep. :-)
however, its not because they lie or try to torture you... Its because they care enough to try and stay in business, lower prices and make you cool new stuff-
Compare that to Dell-
1) Find whatever cheap parts are available
2) Find a way to put them together quick and fast
3) Ship them
4) Do no R&D- just sit around, score Dope with Steve and watch pretty colors on their marketing departments itunes screen saver....
As always- my 2 cents-

[giovanni]

madame,
hold on there: you made a general statement as to "apple never lying" and my response was not necessarily in reference to the 17" PB. rather, as I explained in another post, it was in reference to the new PMs. That is just a fact. It might have not been clear initially, so, sorry for that, but I did clarify soon after.

Also, as the CTOs, your statement there needs qualifications. Again, I have purchased Apple stuff for 20 years, I would have a clue, hopefully. So, yes, never buy RAM from Apple, it is a joke pricewise. And in general don't CTO, period, I agree. However, here is the qualification:
(a) simply cannot get the internal bluetooth module elsewhere
(b) the superdrive; issues are very well known with OEM superdrives installed in the Macs (at least the duals). I experienced it myself (following the logic "get anything you can elsewhere"). I don't want to deal with that.

Nothing else, not 1k of additional RAM, the above are the two only reasons my order had to be CTO. I would have even considered getting a 1.42 to avoid that, but hell, those are months away ! Fact remains, I was first told by 2/18 (ordered on 2/6) now it is by 3/11. But this is not the point - my wait is my wait and my ********g problem.
I was simply making general statements. Apple is very poorly managing the introduction of new products. I was not referrring in particular to the PB 17" - if it is indeed withing Apple's shipping schedule, I don't see what people are whining about.

[giovanni]

humantech, you are absolutely right, if that is the case for the PB 17". I was make more general observation, more precisely in reference to shipments of Power Macs, being delayed, delayed and delayed again.

[humantech]

It makes me run off at the mouth.....
:-)
Giovanni- I actually was just kindve giving the newbie a breakdown on the Mac world and what happens with NEW product announcements-
As a reseller, CTO's being backordered ( or in the case of the Dual 1.42's being backordered when you just KNOW its motorola laggin with chips) are a huge thorn in our side too- We opt to do MOST CTo's in office, including installing parts ( If they are available at Apple part department faster than through CTO)
We definitely do ALL ram/ hard drive, CD drive updates etc.. in house---
But you know, I really liken waiting for Macs to the old Katsup commerical " Heinz - Its making you wait" - the anticipation is half the fun--- If I had a nickel for every time a new machine came into the shop and we literally fought to rip that baby open........ :-)

[Heart Break Kid]

hey

im the noobie
and the wait is killing me
ive wet myself everytime the stupid fed ex guy drives by my house...and when i see a fed ex cart on the road...

its so sad
its like my prom all over again
:mad:

seriously though
waiting is 1/2 the fun...but the other 1/2 is getting it so i can play!
i can only wait so much
lol
yeah..the break down makes sense..i just wish it didnt..cuz now i cant complain too much

god the anticipation is gonna make me go blind...

for all those who know the feeling

not even porn + chicken can make the wait easier on me
ahhhhhh

[humantech]

C'mon, I love my Macs, but Porn AND chicken? Is this extra crispy, niggets or shake and bake?
Here- this may take your mind off the wait until the Powerbook Arrives- ( If you get your before I get my floor models, May all of hades jump up and burn your bottom)
http://www.cyberglass.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by giovanni
madame,
hold on there: you made a general statement as to "apple never lying" and my response was not necessarily in reference to the 17" PB. rather, as I explained in another post, it was in reference to the new PMs. That is just a fact. It might have not been clear initially, so, sorry for that, but I did clarify soon after.

Also, as the CTOs, your statement there needs qualifications. Again, I have purchased Apple stuff for 20 years, I would have a clue, hopefully. So, yes, never buy RAM from Apple, it is a joke pricewise. And in general don't CTO, period, I agree. However, here is the qualification:
(a) simply cannot get the internal bluetooth module elsewhere
(b) the superdrive; issues are very well known with OEM superdrives installed in the Macs (at least the duals). I experienced it myself (following the logic "get anything you can elsewhere"). I don't want to deal with that.

Nothing else, not 1k of additional RAM, the above are the two only reasons my order had to be CTO. I would have even considered getting a 1.42 to avoid that, but hell, those are months away ! Fact remains, I was first told by 2/18 (ordered on 2/6) now it is by 3/11. But this is not the point - my wait is my wait and my ********g problem.
I was simply making general statements. Apple is very poorly managing the introduction of new products. I was not referrring in particular to the PB 17" - if it is indeed withing Apple's shipping schedule, I don't see what people are whining about.

Just remember Apple do not make processors (as you know) and Motorolla is terrible for supply. If processors are held back it is not Apple's fault.

[Heart Break Kid]

ok
humantech

my chicken is always shake and bake....some of us cant afford your fancy chicken from wendy's...damn rich ppl

:D

that is the craziest flash site ive ever seen
..freakin me out though


words of advice - the early bird gets the worm..but the second mouse gets the cheese

[janey]

three months eh? mine still says eta 2-4 weeks. but then again i got it the day steve introduced it ;)

[Heart Break Kid]

ok thats it Jane

if you were out to make me cry...you win
im crying
...i cry every day the fed ex guy drives by my house
im crying again

i hoep your happy
:mad:

[iwantanewmac]

GEEEEEEESUS!!!! it's only a damn computer.
Just wait for 3 months. DUH! get over it!
Some people don't even have 1....
Who cares.

[Heart Break Kid]

its my computer!
i care!

and hey..why do u care bout ppl who dont have computers?
you got one right?
i mean..how else r u here?
:D

[reflex]

Originally posted by humantech
I'm an Apple specialist reseller - The trend Apple is starting to follow is basically on demand ordering- Why? Because they are held responsible fiscally by their stockholders, and have to balance that responsibility with customer and market needs- Why would they charge you up front? Because they need to buy the stuff to get it built, and to do it any other way is bad business- I mean, really-how many stores can you walk into and say " Order me $5000 worth of stuff and I'll pay you when it shows up"

The funny part about this is that it's illegal in Belgium (and probably in other countries) to sell stuff online ("at a distance" is the legal term) and demand payment up front. Not that this stops anyone from doing it, though.

[iwantanewmac]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
its my computer!
i care!

and hey..why do u care bout ppl who dont have computers?
you got one right?
i mean..how else r u here?
:D

erm.......I mean there are internet cafes around the world..........or I can post at some1 elses place..........:)

[Ifeelbloated]

Dude! Don't go back to Hell...er, Dell! Have you considered dressing up as a ninja and sneaking into Apple distribution centers?

[ftaok]

Originally posted by madamimadam
Just remember Apple do not make processors (as you know) and Motorolla is terrible for supply. If processors are held back it is not Apple's fault. The 1ghz G4s are NOT the reason that the 17" PB is being delayed. I just went onto Apple and they are giving 1-2 day shipping times for the 17" 1ghz iMac, the 15" 1ghz TiBook (w. SuperDrive), and the 1ghz PowerMac. The 12" 867mhz PBook (w. SuperDrive) is on a 3-5 day shipping time.

It's painfully obvious that the 5-7 week time frame for the 17" PBook is NOT due to Motorola's G4 production capabilities.

It's NOT due to the supply of 17" LCD screens as the 17" iMac is available.

It's NOT due to the supply of SuperDrives as both the 12" and 15" PowerBooks are available.

What does that leave? Perhaps the delay is due to a shortage of DDR2700 RAM. Maybe there's a shortage of backlit keyboards. Maybe they can't seem to fit FW800 into a 1" thin enclosure.

Whatever the reason, it's Apple's fault.

[filipp]

Originally posted by ftaok

It's NOT due to the supply of SuperDrives as both the 12" and 15" PowerBooks are available.


I actually thought it was the superdrives fault couse here in sweden we still have not got any 12''PB w/ Superdrive, only the combo ones.

Has anyone already gotten a superdrive 12-incher?

[madamimadam]

Deleted

[ftaok]

Originally posted by madamimadam
I checked Apple's own product availability list - not open to public - here in Oz and iMac 17" 1GHz is Out of Stock with no ETA; PowerMac 1GHz is Out of Stock and not in full supply until next week at least; PowerBook 15" 1GHz is Out of Stock with no ETA; PowerBook 17" 1GHz is Out of Stock with initial shipment early March.

Need I say more... don't trust AppleStore, while US USUALLY has stock ahead of us in the Apple Stores, there is not USUALLY that big a time difference. Need you say more? YEAH!

I'm going to trust the Apple Store's info before I take your word on the matter. No offense.

How could it be processor supplies if the 1ghz PowerMac will be available in a week (according to you)? Why would Apple put the 1ghz chips that they receive from Moto into the low-end (and therefore low margin) PowerMac before getting them into the high-end (and REALLY high margin) PowerBooks?

[Heart Break Kid]

hmmm
sneak into apple and get one you say?

where can i get this ninja suit you speak of?

:cool:

[giovanni]

Just FYI, the delays on the PM shipments seem to be the result of delays in the supply of the Bluetooth module. Right now a PM with superdrive is back to 3-5 days, while the addition of the bluetooth module pushes shipment to 2-3 weeks.

I am beginning to wonder whether this module is worth the wait.

Does anyone have a clue as to what difference it makes compared to the the USB adaptor (apart from esthetics) ?

[filipp]

You cannot connect cell phones as easy as via BT.
But you can use a standalone USB>BT thing to get same functionality, the biggest impact is though on the Powerbooks as you dont want any extra things in your ports.

A bluetooth mouse is perfect for a PB, but for a PM it does not really matter if you have built-in or external bluetooth adaptor since it would sit in the back of the case anyway.

/ filipp

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid

this ones for me
ive already named her (appy)

now. dont tell me i wasted the last 3 hours thinking of a name for no reason

:D

See image. Just kidding
:D

[ethan]

I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers. Apple has always been poorly managed in this manner. You DO NOT advertise a product to consumers if you're not capable to produce it and get it to the consumer. Duh. This is Business 101. Apple's marketing dept. always shoots off its mouth with no products to ship. The result: Angry consumers wanting the product. That in turn puts pressure on assembly to hurry out the product to meet demand. Final result: Consumer gets a hastily thrown together product that will have a poor quality level. Haste does make waste. Also with the 1.42 G4, on the BTO page it shows you can add a Radeon 9700 but it says: (Coming soon). So if you want that card, your order process STOPS immediately. You can't order the unit because they don't have the cards. I called Apple and they said they don't know when the 9700 card will be available. They said "Call the manufacturer." I said, "NO, morons, it's not up to the customer to chase down parts of a product YOU are building. If you don't have the card, DON'T list it on your online purchasing/ordering page." Period. Just because Apple builds computers, it doesn't make them any diferent from any other company building a product. They are retarded when it comes to running a business.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ethan
I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers.

This is an industry standard in the electronics biz. Just look around you. Every major hyped and desired new electronic product that comes out has a waiting period after it is announced. Canon announced there S230 digital camera and I had to a month and a half for it to hit store shelves or to be able to order it. Epson announced the new 1660 scanner I believe last July and it was late fall before the first few were available.

It isn't just in the electronics business. Because here a year or two ago Meade announced a whole new line of telescopes and it was 6 months before the smallest of them hit the market and a year before the larger ones did.

I agree that it would make since for them to wait until have the product ready for production before announcing but this is not how it works for 100s of products from many different manufacturors every year. I some times wonder if they make the announcement early to determine demand before production starts or it is a business tactic to scare there competitors. Either way it is not just Apple that uses the press release and wait method and I'm sure they have a good reason for it.

One more thing I seem to remember there being delays when the PT Cruiser, Viper, new Vettte, and the Prowler were released.

[ethan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacBandit
[B]This is an industry standard in the electronics biz. Just look around you. Every major hyped and desired new electronic product that comes out has a waiting period after it is announced. Canon announced there S230 digital camera and I had to a month and a half for it to hit store shelves or to be able to order it. Epson announced the new 1660 scanner I believe last July and it was late fall before the first few were available.



One more thing I seem to remember there being delays when the PT Cruiser, Viper, new Vettte, and the Prowler were released.



These delays were not because of lack of parts or quality prblems. Those delays were due to that there is only 24 hours in a day and you can only have three shifts a day producing. Duh.

[mmoin]

Saw the new powerbooks announced, wanted the 12" but realized how long I'd have to wait, ordered the iBook 800, got it in 2 days. If you want your computer quickly, don't buy the model that's in short supply and that everyone else wants.

[digitalgiant]

just one more person giving switchers a bad name. you are bitching about stuff us long term users have been dealing with for years,,,so i dont really feel sorry for you.:rolleyes:

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by ftaok
Need you say more? YEAH!

I'm going to trust the Apple Store's info before I take your word on the matter. No offense.

How could it be processor supplies if the 1ghz PowerMac will be available in a week (according to you)? Why would Apple put the 1ghz chips that they receive from Moto into the low-end (and therefore low margin) PowerMac before getting them into the high-end (and REALLY high margin) PowerBooks?

You are going to trust Apple Store before Apple itself. You stupid wanker... if it was not for the fact that in big writing on the availability page it says that you can not even download the page. Saying that... I just re-read the warning and I have already treaded on thin ice saying what I did so I am deleting my previous message; I don't want to be like that guy in the news.

And if you want to know why they would have the PowerMacs before 17" PowerBooks it would be because when they start shipping they would want quick supply not a dwindle for a long while.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by ethan
I understand your frustration and anger. It's the same way with the new 1.42 G4s. Apple says 4-6 weeks before shipping and if you want options added add another two weeks. I work for one of the big three auto companies. A good, professional company makes sure it has the thousands and thousands of parts in needs to build a product IN STOCK BEFORE it advertises and then manufacturers. Apple has always been poorly managed in this manner. You DO NOT advertise a product to consumers if you're not capable to produce it and get it to the consumer. Duh. This is Business 101. Apple's marketing dept. always shoots off its mouth with no products to ship. The result: Angry consumers wanting the product. That in turn puts pressure on assembly to hurry out the product to meet demand. Final result: Consumer gets a hastily thrown together product that will have a poor quality level. Haste does make waste. Also with the 1.42 G4, on the BTO page it shows you can add a Radeon 9700 but it says: (Coming soon). So if you want that card, your order process STOPS immediately. You can't order the unit because they don't have the cards. I called Apple and they said they don't know when the 9700 card will be available. They said "Call the manufacturer." I said, "NO, morons, it's not up to the customer to chase down parts of a product YOU are building. If you don't have the card, DON'T list it on your online purchasing/ordering page." Period. Just because Apple builds computers, it doesn't make them any diferent from any other company building a product. They are retarded when it comes to running a business.


If you actually attended business 101 you would have found out that it is also common practise to get funds early so as to be able to pay for production without hindering cash flow. Why stop making money on cash on hand and investments when you can get funds upfront.

As for Apple being "retarded when it comes to running a business", I would like to see you make half as much money as they can... they must be doing something right.

Also, if Apple has not been told by ATI when the cards are coming in then there is nothing they can do. It could only be a good thing for you to call ATI yourself.

And you tell me when Apple has produced a "hastily thrown together product that (has) a poor quality level". Also, most electronic haste does not create waste because they can reuse the part.

**** people piss me off... this is why I can not work in retail; Apple gets so much **** for doing the same as so many other companies except their product is better. Do you think people buying Lamborghini's get upset if they don't get product on the spot?

[nanosound]

The truth is marketing is always two steps ahead of manufacturing. It may not be illegal or unethical, but it can be very frustrating to customers and often test their loyalty. Customers are conditioned to want better, faster, sooner--just like Pavlov's dogs. They're conditioned to whip out their wallets for the latest greatest. So when they have to wait, frustration mounts.

With the PB 17, some parts were delayed as well. Murphy always wins.

But I agree, customers shouldn't be tracking down parts information--that is the product maker's job--they should not list items that aren't available reasonably soon.

[janey]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
ok thats it Jane

if you were out to make me cry...you win
im crying
...i cry every day the fed ex guy drives by my house
im crying again

i hoep your happy
:mad:
i'm so sorry :( if it makes you happy...no matter what i'm not getting my 17" powerbook for a while. it still says shipping on or before 2/20 now and even though i already have one i'm even more anxious than you are to get it.

[StevenFW]

I think Ethan has said it best, also taking into account some of the tempered replies. Yes , other companies do what Apple does, insofar as press release before delivery, and yes, Apple gets the worst of the press for doing so, but let's be honest here....anyone who follows Apple closely over the past decade knows that they are very guilty of the practice....and whenever you look at the reasons, offered by reputable Mac sites, not those from morons who only point to the "beleaguered" Apple, it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3, and certainly in between...I love Apple hardware and software to death, and as I have said before, I will be with them forever, but the facts are the facts....Ethan makes some valid points-go ask ATI???? Come on, that is not the answer to be given when you are spending good money for ANY product...it is clearly Apple's responsibility to say something, even "we just don't know", not "call the manufacturer"....in summary, I truly believe that no matter who else does it, blah blah blah, DON'T market a product to death that will not be available for a quarter of one year (PB 17")....

[Jovian9]

I ordered the FP iMac on January 17th of 2002....right after they were released. This was my first Apple purchase. It took nearly 2 months for it to be delivered. I was dieing to get this, but I never got upset waiting for it. Be Patient.....it is well worth the wait.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by StevenFW
I think Ethan has said it best, also taking into account some of the tempered replies. Yes , other companies do what Apple does, insofar as press release before delivery, and yes, Apple gets the worst of the press for doing so, but let's be honest here....anyone who follows Apple closely over the past decade knows that they are very guilty of the practice....and whenever you look at the reasons, offered by reputable Mac sites, not those from morons who only point to the "beleaguered" Apple, it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3, and certainly in between...I love Apple hardware and software to death, and as I have said before, I will be with them forever, but the facts are the facts....Ethan makes some valid points-go ask ATI???? Come on, that is not the answer to be given when you are spending good money for ANY product...it is clearly Apple's responsibility to say something, even "we just don't know", not "call the manufacturer"....in summary, I truly believe that no matter who else does it, blah blah blah, DON'T market a product to death that will not be available for a quarter of one year (PB 17")....

I think you portray your opinion very fairly and since it came off as opinion I can not really rebutt it but I can say that we can hope that one day Stevie gets his factory that builds everything that the computers need. :)

[Heart Break Kid]

damnit
why does everyone here have to be the voice of reason?

i know i should wait..i know thats what any sane adult would do..but the PB was my first splurge purchase...and damnit..im gonna act like a 2 year old until i see it at my door

cuz i want it now now now now now.
by the way...i think the fed ex guy feels im stalking hiim...or staring too long at his truck...if ya know what i mean

oh god...no
whats apple doing to me!!!!

[Heart Break Kid]

damnit
why does everyone here have to be the voice of reason?

i know i should wait..i know thats what any sane adult would do..but the PB was my first splurge purchase...and damnit..im gonna act like a 2 year old until i see it at my door

cuz i want it now now now now now.
by the way...i think the fed ex guy feels im stalking hiim...or staring too long at his truck...if ya know what i mean

oh god...no
whats apple doing to me!!!!

[humantech]

Steven said:
" it becomes readily apparent that they are terrible at supply/demand, absolutely horrible...there were problems in 1994 when I bought my PM 7100/66, and problems when I bought my blue/white G3"
Steven- Supply and demand asks two different things from the consumer versus the business-
from the consumer standpoint, they want it yesterday. We are conditioned. From the business standpoint, they dont want to OVER-project sales because it costs lots of money and gets them in hot water with their public and private investors- I think apple chooses to have very tight inventory controls- the problems with people having to wait for a newly announced product creates more demand- However, demand slacks WAY off when all your money is invested in a glut of overprojected merchandise that you have to mark WAY down to sell-
Also, If apple waited until all the parts were available and cheap, they would be dell- no innovation- merely mass production-
Apple has the best inventory controls in the business ( yes, even better than Dells) and this allows them the leeway to spend VAST amounts on R&D each year to keep innovating- As soon as they have a brand new product available immediately on launch, they will stop pressing the envelope and fail to be pertinent, as they will be using existing parts and form factors, and not doing anything new- think performa 6360--- EEEEEEWWWWWW.......
Also, the whole comparison to the auto industry is wack. The car industry hasnt truly innovated for a long time with the exception of the new hybrid cars which you had to be on a waiting list for- javascript:smilie(':D')
My 2 cents---




:D

[beatle888]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
ok
So i just switched. I had a horrible Dell that kept crashing and finally decided to buy me a mac. Put my order in for the 17 inch powerbook G4 with 1 gig ram. heres my porblem. Why in the hell is it gonna take 3 months for it to get here????????????????????????


i wouldnt wait three months. by that time the
new thing is right around the corner.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by LosJackal
You are being unrealistic if you think a company can ALWAYS wait until a product is (almost) ready to announce it. Look at Microsoft...they just "announced" they'll add Exchange support into Entourage, but it won't be "released" until the summer. That's the software industry. New startup companies announce their products maybe a year or more before they're readily available. Hardware peripherals often announce a few months ahead of time, like a new CD burner technology. Same with eletronics, and many other industries.

So let's talk about this specific product, the 17" PowerBook. It is the culmination of the innovation Apple has been doing over the past year. Contrary to a previous post, it is a completely new machine:
1) Widescreen 17" in a laptop with a new backlight
2) New anodized aluminum case
3) New keyboard with backlighting and ambient light sensors
4) Airport Extreme
5) Built-in Bluetooth
6) Firewire 800
7) DDR RAM
8) New motherboard to run it all

You can certainly bet Apple needs to announce this at a major event like MWSF.

So why couldn't they have it ready to deliver after MWSF? I personally don't know. But there are reasons that could explain it....
a) don't ramp up production yet to preserve secrecy
b) don't know market reaction to it yet
c) don't know how many to manufacture to begin with
d) needed release of 10.2.4
e) needed release of iLife

All in all, 7-10 weeks isn't an unreasonable time frame to have all of that come together. Contrary to some opinion, there are no delays yet. Apple said "in February" and 7-10 weeks from the date of ordering. We haven't passed that mark yet.

There is a difference between software anouncements touting new and improved functionality, "to be released this summer" vs. the PB 17" being announced, as well as orders taken!

I can hear all about some new program to be released in July, but I can't order it until then. Apple lets me order something that they knowingly have no idea when it can possibly ship. This is bad for business. Even Mac enthusiasts are telling people to cancel their orders...

As to the February statement, most everyone that is getting some sort of updated information about their order is hearing March-April delivery.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by beatle888
i wouldnt wait three months. by that time the
new thing is right around the corner.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard

Why buy a computer when there will be one better made in 6 months?

Why wait 3 months when in 3 more a new on will be released that you will have to wait 3 months to get?

[beatle888]

Originally posted by madamimadam
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard

Why buy a computer when there will be one better made in 6 months?

Why wait 3 months when in 3 more a new on will be released that you will have to wait 3 months to get?


obvioulsy you miss understood me. i ment that i wouldnt buy the newest hardware NOW if its not going to be shipped for three more months.

cant you understand that? people are right when they say that apple shouldnt take orders for a product that isnt shipping for another quarter... sorry maybe someone else can explain it to you. oh wait, okcan you understand this? what im suggesting is that he should cancel his order and get something thats available now....do you get it?

[Heart Break Kid]

cmon lets not get into flaming each other

this thread was to let me flame apple's delivery time
focus ppl
focus

[beatle888]

Originally posted by madamimadam
Deleted


best thing youve posted all day.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by beatle888
best thing youve posted all day.

And why is that, because I am not a back stabbing bastard who puts down great companies because they can not produce millions of top of the range computers in 2-3 days?

You would think that a site dedicated to MacRumors and all things Mac would entice great discussions but the Mac world and the excitement of finally getting a new machine after an anxious wait but instead these boards seem to be constantly flooded with people bitching about a company they apperently like the work of.

In any other industry, people will wait as long as it takes for the best, in this industry everyone wants things yesterday. It takes time to make true quality... why not give Apple a little?

[LosJackal]

Originally posted by yzedf
There is a difference between software anouncements touting new and improved functionality, "to be released this summer" vs. the PB 17" being announced, as well as orders taken!

I can hear all about some new program to be released in July, but I can't order it until then. Apple lets me order something that they knowingly have no idea when it can possibly ship. This is bad for business. Even Mac enthusiasts are telling people to cancel their orders...

As to the February statement, most everyone that is getting some sort of updated information about their order is hearing March-April delivery.

Regarding ordering, would you rather have a free-for-all March 1st? Personally, I am (for the moment) confident about my place in line. I ordered, knowing I wouldn't have it charged to my credit card for at least a month, and then I'd have another month to pay it. I ordered it stock configuration, from my .Mac account, with overnight shipping. In other words, everything within my power to get it ASAP. I didn't have to think about it....I could always cancel it before it ships.

As for updated information, Apple seems to give updated information on the actual "on or before date" if they are not going to meet that date. My date is tomorrow, so I'll let you know if I hear anything. You can bet I'll be calling Apple on the 21st if I haven't heard from them first.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ethan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MacBandit
[B]These delays were not because of lack of parts or quality prblems. Those delays were due to that there is only 24 hours in a day and you can only have three shifts a day producing. Duh.


Those delays are just like the Powerbook and Powermac delay. The product simply wasn't available for a great while after the initial announcement. It wasn't because of high demand and they were backordered it was because they didn't even have the product out yet.

Also you are assuming that the delay is because Apple can't get a part. While this is possibly a very valid assumption it is an assumption all the same with no evidence.

[ftaok]

Originally posted by madamimadam
You are going to trust Apple Store before Apple itself. You stupid wanker... if it was not for the fact that in big writing on the availability page it says that you can not even download the page. Saying that... I just re-read the warning and I have already treaded on thin ice saying what I did so I am deleting my previous message; I don't want to be like that guy in the news.

And if you want to know why they would have the PowerMacs before 17" PowerBooks it would be because when they start shipping they would want quick supply not a dwindle for a long while. No need to start insulting people.

My whole point with your argument is that the 17" PowerBook is delayed because of supply problems at Motorola. I question that because it's obvious that 1ghz G4s are readily available in other Apple products.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by ftaok
No need to start insulting people.

My whole point with your argument is that the 17" PowerBook is delayed because of supply problems at Motorola. I question that because it's obvious that 1ghz G4s are readily available in other Apple products.

How can something be readily available if it is constrained????

[JustAGuy]

While we're on the subject of long wait times for Macs, my dual 1.25 rig was just delayed until "on or before 3/13/2003."

Yup, that's right, I ordered on the 9th, and now my ship date is the same as if I ordered it today. Seriously considering cancelling it until they're readily available...

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by JustAGuy
While we're on the subject of long wait times for Macs, my dual 1.25 rig was just delayed until "on or before 3/13/2003."

Yup, that's right, I ordered on the 9th, and now my ship date is the same as if I ordered it today. Seriously considering cancelling it until they're readily available...

EVERY SINGLE Apple range is bloody constrained... it is getting rediculous. There are only 2 or 3 models that are available.

[giovanni]

Originally posted by JustAGuy
While we're on the subject of long wait times for Macs, my dual 1.25 rig was just delayed until "on or before 3/13/2003."

Yup, that's right, I ordered on the 9th, and now my ship date is the same as if I ordered it today. Seriously considering cancelling it until they're readily available...

dont worry you will get it, some day. How did you configure your CTO ? I know for sure the bluetooth module causes big delays; the superdrive used to do the same, but not anymore (Sony's?).

I will say it again, Apple is losing PM customers, by the minute, I could not imagine that this were not the case.

[giovanni]

My PM, with bluetooth and superdrive, was ordered on the 2/6 with shipment on the 19th then delayd to 3/11 !!! ahaha funny. I cancelled, reordered w/o bluetooth and I should get it by 2/26. However, I feel I am the one who is losing here, not Apple - I need the ********g Mac !!!

[JustAGuy]

It's the BT module that did it, no question. The sales guy I talked to when I placed the order said they hadn't even gotten it cleared past Canada Customs for import, hence the delays.

On a related note, less than 3 hours after updating my ship date to on or before March 13th, my mac shipped. Go figure.

[MrBillGates]

Originally posted by madamimadam
EVERY SINGLE Apple range is bloody constrained... it is getting rediculous. There are only 2 or 3 models that are available.

Constraits are totally unacceptable... Buying a computer should not be like buying a custom hand-build Rolls-Royce. I am willing to wait on things but I'll be damned if I'm going to have a by chain jerked.... Having said that, Apple still kicks *ss. :D

Bill Gates

----------------------------------------------
Now where the hell are those new iPods?!?!?!

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by giovanni
I will say it again, Apple is losing PM customers, by the minute, I could not imagine that this were not the case.

Time to start imagining... business is great (for the time of year) here in Oz and, yes, a lot of those are PowerMacs. The only place Apple is losing PowerMac customers to is PowerBooks.

[Chuck]

It really takes your mind off the wait!

It's hard to think about that beautiful backlit keyboard when you're wiping curdled yellow poo from your daughters backside with a wet cotton ball...

It's hard to think about that huge widescreen display when she's lying on your knees looking up towards you with those big baby eyes...

It's hard to think about that smooth aluminium finish when you're lying in bed with her head on your chest, comforting her with the steady rhythm of your heartbeat...

It's hard to think about that lightning fast Airport Extreme when she's been crying in her little crib and you come in, put over your shoulder, gently pat her on the back and realise that all she wanted was to know you were there.

I too was an hardened Gigahertz-crazed, DDR-head watching the calendar, but now I'm coming to realise that some things - like my little Chloé - are well worth the wait!

Chuck
http://www.madebydesign.net

[giovanni]

chuck,
that was a nice post....I relate a lot to that. Congrats on little Chloe !

Madami, if you say so ....

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by giovanni
Madami, if you say so ....

**** **** ****