Got a Loud PowerMac? Exchange the power supply!! [Archive]

Rower_CPU

Feb 21, 2003, 05:22 PM

From MacMinute (http://www.macminute.com/2003/02/21/pmg4):
Power Mac G4 Power Supply Exchange Program offered
February 21 - 15:58 EST Apple has posted details on a new Power Mac G4 Power Supply Exchange Program, which "offers owners of Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) computers the option of reducing the operating acoustic level of their computers by exchanging their original power supplies and system fans for new, quieter versions." The Power Supply Exchange Program kit is available at no charge, with a shipping and handling fee of US$19.95. The kit contains the following items: power supply (360 W); system fan; allen key (2.5 mm); installation instructions; and a prepaid return airbill and instructions for returning the original components to Apple. The program ends June 30, 2003.

Apple's info page (https://depot.info.apple.com/generic/index.html)

Dont Hurt Me

Feb 21, 2003, 05:26 PM

Nice post Rower, Another example of the finest computer company stepping up to the plate. Way to Go Apple! If your going to be the best im glad to see you acting like it.

Jaykay

Feb 21, 2003, 05:50 PM

Exellent. I know ill be signing up gor that. Nice one Apple (I bet a PC company wouldnt do that)

Grizelmac

Feb 21, 2003, 07:52 PM

Power Mac G$ Power Supply Exchange

Freud, is that you?

Freg3000

Feb 21, 2003, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger
Why the hell do we have to pay $19.95 for a problem they gave!?!?! Shipping and Handling!?!?! I paid that with the original purchase, right? Damn.

20 bucks? That thing better weigh a ton. I hate when I am ripped off on S & H.

It better make it a little more bearable...please Apple...

york2600

Feb 21, 2003, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by toontra
e-coli
Could you explain further; do you mean you're still getting too much noise? If so, where do you reckon it's comming from - or is it just that the replacement components aren't much quieter? Do you know for sure that you've got the same parts that Apple are offering as replacement under this new scheme?

PS bbarnhart
It's not surprising that you haven't noticed the noise as you have the latest model which is apparently a lot quieter; this was a problem with the previous release MDD's.

Just a note. My mirror drive G4 was VERY loud. I had 3 hard drives in it. I took 2 of the HDs out and the went away for the most part. The fan is still a beast, but the hard drive hum was worse.

-Tim

Jaykay

Feb 21, 2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by toontra
e-coli
Could you explain further; do you mean you're still getting too much noise? If so, where do you reckon it's comming from - or is it just that the replacement components aren't much quieter? Do you know for sure that you've got the same parts that Apple are offering as replacement under this new scheme?

PS bbarnhart
It's not surprising that you haven't noticed the noise as you have the latest model which is apparently a lot quieter; this was a problem with the previous release MDD's.

If the fan wasnt much quieter, why would apple bother with this at all? Eh?

MacFan25

Feb 21, 2003, 08:12 PM

I don't own a PowerMac so I've never heard its noise, but my iMac is pretty quiet.

G4scott

Feb 21, 2003, 08:25 PM

It's amazing how easily replacable everything in the PowerMacs is... It's also the first time that I've seen Apple let people remove the power supply and fan on their own without voiding the warranty. I'm going for this kit right away. Although $20 is still a bit for shipping, nowhere does it say that the new PowerMacs have to be quiet. You can argue all you want, but it's not going to change the facts...

It's really cool, though, because you have to remove a grand total of 6 screws (maybe just 5...) do swap the powersupply and a fan. Apple has really made this PowerMac easy to switch parts out. Now, if their laptops were just as easy to get into...

imaswitcheryeah

Feb 21, 2003, 08:29 PM

wait... you get a fan too??

Dave Swift

Feb 21, 2003, 08:32 PM

For those complaining about shipping costs... remember this includes shipping to and from apple. $10 each way is certainly not unreasonable to me. The computer isn't defective because it's loud... this is beyond the call of duty for apple.

steeleclipse

Feb 21, 2003, 08:58 PM

Hey Swift:

Do you realize how stupid that sounded??? So we should pay $10 bucks to send them something??? It is their fault. I dunno, maybe I am just angry because people are actually looking forward to paying so they can get a new fan (maybe Apple should just fix their mistakes and take the loss)

For all those people that are excited about dumping more money in their Powermac, I have a great little strip of swampland in Florida you might be interested in!

kazuo

Feb 21, 2003, 09:01 PM

I don't see the reason why real news are posted on this site. I thought it's for rumours or things expected to happen only.

The new fan must be significantly quieter or Apple wouldn't waste the effort. It's subjective all right, but some guys just complain more than women. Stop the b!tching!

Timothy

Feb 21, 2003, 09:16 PM

I am amazed that people would complain so strongly against a shipping and handling fee. The loudness of the G4 is not "Apples Mistake" as has been implied. Loudness is a subjective term, and there is no measure.

Before today, if Apple had never announced this solution, but had quietly told you they would change out your powersupply and fan for $20, you'd have been all over this.

This is an "elective" fix. Nobody is forced to pay the $20 so that their machine will work. And the noise factor was talked about quite a bit when this machine was released.

I have an eligible box, and I am not even sure that I think the switch to be that necessary. I have a firewire hard drive right next to my Powermac that is about 4 times louder than the computer; so it's all relative.

I grow weary of the "we deserve everything for free" attitude that exists amonst some posters on this site. I for one give Apple Kudos for this. We should all learn when to pick our battles; save your bitching for something that really matters. Otherwise, you just look silly.

nickgold

Feb 21, 2003, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by steeleclipse
Hey Swift:

Do you realize how stupid that sounded??? So we should pay $10 bucks to send them something??? It is their fault. I dunno, maybe I am just angry because people are actually looking forward to paying so they can get a new fan (maybe Apple should just fix their mistakes and take the loss)

For all those people that are excited about dumping more money in their Powermac, I have a great little strip of swampland in Florida you might be interested in!

If 20 dollars is a super-huge deal to you, I suggest you look for work in a more rewarding sector of the economy. I spent $20 on sushi last night without even thinking about it, and I make under $25K a year. Get a grip, man. Do you even OWN a PowerMac? Or a Mac at all?

$20 for a brand new power supply, fan, and all related shipping charges to and from Apple is a REALLY good deal IMO, and if I had a tower that I felt was too noisy for my tastes, I would gladly cough up $20 for a fix.

As for that strip of swampland in Florida -- I'm guessing that's your current place of residence? ;)

steeleclipse

Feb 21, 2003, 09:26 PM

24k... sucks to be you.
Sushi? Good for you I don't care.
Yes I own a MDD powermac with which I am exceptionally happy, except for the windtunnel-like noises it is currently emitting as we speak... uh... type

I LOVE MY STUDIO DISPLAY THOUGH!!!
...and my iPod...

arn

Feb 21, 2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by kazuo
I don't see the reason why real news are posted on this site. I thought it's for rumours or things expected to happen only.

It's for both News and Rumors... but the content will vary with the significance of the news.

arn

steeleclipse

Feb 21, 2003, 09:29 PM

Nickgold...

One more thing.... No MDD Tower? Then mind your own business... Go surf the internet with your tangerine clamshell, ok? Rookie...

puffmarvin

Feb 21, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by steeleclipse
Nickgold...

One more thing.... No MDD Tower? Then mind your own business... Go surf the internet with your tangerine clamshell, ok? Rookie...

what made me laugh is the fact that a macrumors newbie is calling nick a rookie.

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Feb 21, 2003, 09:49 PM

Newbies: Chill out!

Get back on topic.

I remember back when Apple was charging $20 Shipping and Handling for the 10.1 cd update.

Even though, I don't like their business practice of charging $19.95 for a new power supply and fan, I'll probably still buy it. Damn! I thought I was done paying off my computer....I guess not....

Next thing you know, they'll say that the whole motherboard is causing the loud noise....then we gotta send $19.95 for a new one again....eh.....

They should just send the new powersupplies and fans to their resellers and we just bring our PMacs to them to exchange it.

Edit: I just placed my order for it and Apple's website stated that they would start shipping them on the 10th of March.

Will it be worth the wait....only time will tell...

Gus

Feb 21, 2003, 10:05 PM

This is not something that affects the function of your computer adversely. This is not a warranty problem like a BAD power supply, as in one that would fail for no reason. This is Apple trying to please their VERY vocal customers. I say kudos to Apple, and boo hoo to those complaining.

You don't HAVE to switch the power supply. Your computer will continue running just fine without the new power supply.

Don't want to shell out $19.95? Then don't. Your machine will be fine.

Sorry for the belligerent tone.

Regards,
Gus

MrBillGates

Feb 21, 2003, 10:31 PM

How does the MDD G4 fan noise compare with a Quicksilver G4? I've got a Quicksilver and it's definately not that quiet. Unfortunate that I can't upgrade my power supply for $20. :(

steeleclipse

Feb 21, 2003, 10:35 PM

I didn't mean he was rookie on this specific site. I was just speaking in general... (salary wise)

steeleclipse

Feb 21, 2003, 10:38 PM

Oh... hey, Puff...

Thanks for quoting me when my post is right above... Have some faith in the other members... I am sure they could have figured it out :D

rugby

Feb 21, 2003, 10:43 PM

Imagine a 747 under your desk. This thing is louder than hell. I've already put my order in, and I'm sending this to my boss as his DP867 sits on his desk right next to me and it sounds like a damn airport runway in our office.

If you think I"m exagerrating I have a MDD867 overclocked to DP1ghz, a DP Athlon 1600+ with 5 80mm fans, an air cleaner, and a G4/400 in a 10"x10" office. I can hear the MDD over all of them.

Originally posted by MrBillGates
How does the MDD G4 fan noise compare with a Quicksilver G4? I've got a Quicksilver and it's definately not that quiet. Unfortunate that I can't upgrade my power supply for $20. :(

Chisholm

Feb 21, 2003, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by MrBillGates
How does the MDD G4 fan noise compare with a Quicksilver G4? I've got a Quicksilver and it's definately not that quiet. Unfortunate that I can't upgrade my power supply for $20. :(

The Quicksilver is VERY quiet in comparison to the Mirror Mac. I have a Mirrored mac on my desktop that is at ear level and its quite loud. If I could put it on the floor I would.

My complaint with the $20 shipping fee is that we have CLASSROOMS of these machines. 18 machines @$20 each * 6 classrooms is over $2100 not to mention about 30 minutes each in labor on OUR end. It's a huge cost. If Apple were sending in the technician to do the replacements that would be one thing. But they're not.

I don't know, I guess I'm just glad they are fessing up to the fact there is a problem.

cheers!
John

bretm

Feb 21, 2003, 11:06 PM

I got my mirrored drive doors dual gig in mid october and it was quiter than my previous G4 350.

Am I nuts or something? Seems fine to me. Is it just the earlier versions of MDD that had this problem?

Choppaface

Feb 21, 2003, 11:15 PM

hmmm so they'll do a $20 fix for this, but most people have to pay big time for their chipping powerbooks? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Chisholm

Feb 21, 2003, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by bretm
I got my mirrored drive doors dual gig in mid october and it was quiter than my previous G4 350.

Am I nuts or something? Seems fine to me. Is it just the earlier versions of MDD that had this problem?

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. I got mine in early September (if I'm not mistaken). I'm just glad the damn beast doesn't have SCSI drives in it. It would sure be defenestration for the Mac or me if it did.

GetSome681

Feb 21, 2003, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Chisholm
The Quicksilver is VERY quiet in comparison to the Mirror Mac. I have a Mirrored mac on my desktop that is at ear level and its quite loud. If I could put it on the floor I would.

My complaint with the $20 shipping fee is that we have CLASSROOMS of these machines. 18 machines @$20 each * 6 classrooms is over $2100 not to mention about 30 minutes each in labor on OUR end. It's a huge cost. If Apple were sending in the technician to do the replacements that would be one thing. But they're not.

I don't know, I guess I'm just glad they are fessing up to the fact there is a problem.

cheers!
John

When will you realize that it's not a problem. It's called a loud fan, nothing else. When you buy the computer it never came with a guarantee that it's going to be silent, or that super silent fans were installed. Come on, get real, it's not a PROBLEM, and i'm sick of people saying it is.

Also, you complain about having to redo an entire classroom of computer...well that's just ridiculous. At college we had plenty of computer labs, with some of the loudest PCs you can imagine...but it's not a real problem.

Also, if it takes you 30 minutes to put in a PSU, and some fans, LoL!!!!!

Come on people, get real. If you are awaken by the slightest thing don't complain b/c you can't sleep with your PMac on, b/c that's not apple problem. I could state a hundred other things, but I think you get my drift.

springscansing

Feb 21, 2003, 11:27 PM

I personally might do this for fun, but honestly, I sleep next to my mac every night (no.. not like that.. yet..) and I have no problem with the noise. But for 20 bucks its more fun than going out to the movies!

sedarby

Feb 21, 2003, 11:31 PM

My boss has a DP 1Ghz and has been on top of this issue since they came out. He and several other people across the planet set up a website just for this issue, www.g4noise.com. They have repeatedly beat up on Apple to get something done. Although arguably this is not a defect per se, it is definitely an issue if you are trying to use one of these puppies in an audio recording situation.

Good for Apple for providing a solution and finally admitting there is a problem. If you are concerned about the $20 why don't you wait until others have installed it to see if it really fixes the noise problem on a significant number of machines. You have until June 30th I believe.

jeremy.king

Feb 21, 2003, 11:35 PM

Wow! I started this thread because I thought it was a good idea to let others know about this power supply program.

I never thought that some people would get so angry (and vocal) about a small fee for shipping and handling. Granted we have to pay it. so what? I don't think $20 is so bad for a replacement power supply that we all *hope* will be MUCH MUCH QUIETER. Besides, we are most likely paying to ship both ways, so $10 each way seems very reasonable. You do have to give your current supply back (hmmmmm. I wonder what happens if we dont)

Again, if you can't afford it or don't want to. Guess what? You don't have too. Thats the beauty of it.

I do love the energy in these forums, but remember we are all here for the same reason. We love our Macs! and some of us [springscansing] even sleep with (er...next to) them.

Take care everyone, and go to bed already!!!

springscansing

Feb 21, 2003, 11:37 PM

Damnit.. no Discover card!? Curse me for having this inferior piece of plastic!

nickgold

Feb 21, 2003, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by steeleclipse
I didn't mean he was rookie on this specific site. I was just speaking in general... (salary wise)

heheh Dude... If you knew what I did day in and day out (which I'm not really allowed to be specific about, do to contract) you'd realize how utterly idiotic that sounded... But I am satisfied being the only one here who really knows how idiotic it sounded, to the full degree. *grin*

Btw, my first Mac was a Color Classic, the first Apples I used were Apple IIs, and my current setup is a G4 450 Sawtooth, which serves me well to this day. Rookie? If you say so...

Anyway, if you make sooo much more than I do, which I have no reason to doubt -- you sound even _more_ pathetic whining about $20.

springscansing

Feb 21, 2003, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by puffmarvin
what made me laugh is the fact that a macrumors newbie is calling nick a rookie.

Nice avatar you have there! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, this is a good move by Apple. Yay apple! Now I just have to get my hands on a Visa. WHAT IS THIS DISCOVER MADNESS!?

nickgold

Feb 21, 2003, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by sedarby
Although arguably this is not a defect per se, it is definitely an issue if you are trying to use one of these puppies in an audio recording situation.

I'm not trying to be too smug about this, but if you're at all serious about recording audio in a studio environment, you have an isolated and specifically designed and soundproofed recording room/booth that has NO gear in it other than a microphone. I can't imagine trying to record audio with _any_ tower in the same room -- or at least doing so, and pretending to be at all professional.

And let me be straight -- I do NOT run or manage a recording studio, although I have been working with Mac audio for about 6 years or so. And even _I_ know that recording in a room with a computer tower is, uh -- lame.

Chisholm

Feb 21, 2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by GetSome681
When will you realize that it's not a problem. It's called a loud fan, nothing else. When you buy the computer it never came with a guarantee that it's going to be silent, or that super silent fans were installed. Come on, get real, it's not a PROBLEM, and i'm sick of people saying it is.

Also, you complain about having to redo an entire classroom of computer...well that's just ridiculous. At college we had plenty of computer labs, with some of the loudest PCs you can imagine...but it's not a real problem.

Also, if it takes you 30 minutes to put in a PSU, and some fans, LoL!!!!!

Come on people, get real. If you are awaken by the slightest thing don't complain b/c you can't sleep with your PMac on, b/c that's not apple problem. I could state a hundred other things, but I think you get my drift.

Sorry dude, forgot to tell you something, not all professors like to yell above the noise generated by a classroom of machines. The students are noisy enough as it is.

1. I wasn't talking about redoing 1 machine, rather over 100 of them.
2. A 30 minute timeframe per machine is not unreasonable, I'll be training work study students to do this most likely and they NEED to take the time to do it right the first time. Perhaps you think its acceptable to close the case up with a few "extra screws" left over. have you even read the instructions for this procedure?
3. When you purchase 120 or so Quicksilvers and they perform at a certain level, then turn around and order 40 more and end up with noise tunnels, oh I mean Mirrored Macs, well....^$@& not sure what YOUR job is, but I ultimately work for professors that are always right. They are my customers, if you will.
4. Sorry you went to a college with such noisy computer labs. Come to the University of Alabama, College of Communications and Information Technology and we'll try to help you with your trauma. Maybe even learn you a thing or two.

I wasn't TRYING to be an ass, I just was. Sorry.

:p

trose

Feb 21, 2003, 11:59 PM

Ive got a DP 867 MDD and to tell you the truth,the noise doesnt bother me. It is alot louder than my iMacDV was just sitting there,but I actualy find it quieter when in use now that I dont have a hard drive+cd drive spinning infront of my face.
My G4 is in my bedroom,and I actualy find the sound a nice ambient to fall asleep to :)

If I hear alot of people saying its a drastic improvement I might do it. Until then,im extremely glad I made this purchase.

Rower_CPU

Feb 22, 2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by Chisholm
4. Sorry you went to a college with such noisy computer labs. Come to the University of Alabama, College of Communications and Information Technology and we'll try to help you with your trauma. Maybe even learn you a thing or two.

While you're at it, switch some their machines running Folding@Home over to MacRumors Team Folding. ;)
Team # 3446

finleymac

Feb 22, 2003, 12:12 AM

If this update makes in fans sound anything like the new MDD Powermacs (dual 1.4, ext.), I'm going to be pleased. I used one of the new PowerMacs (dual 1.2) at an Apple Store, and the noise really was quite pleasant. Just a low hum, that you could only hear if you listen really carefully.

Now if Apple could only fix the problem with 10.2.4 and the date and time resetting to 1969 that would be even better. And no, I don't have a dead battery

nickgold

Feb 22, 2003, 12:18 AM

nickgold

Feb 22, 2003, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by finleymac
Now if Apple could only fix the problem with 10.2.4 and the date and time resetting to 1969 that would be even better. And no, I don't have a dead battery

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man, but that's a problem with YOUR computer -- not 10.2.4. Maybe you need to --

- Zap PRAM

- try a different user account, see if the issue is present

- reinstall OS X (worst case scenario)

If none of that stuff works, it likely _is_ a physical problem with your computer.

Chisholm

Feb 22, 2003, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by nickgold
I know if I was making a tech purchase of over 100 top of the line computers for a school, I would sure as heck wait a couple of weeks until after they were out to make sure there were no issues that might cause a problem in the environment they would be used in. I might even -- gasp -- look at one in person first! And that has nothing to do with whether we are talking Macs, PCs, etc.

But gosh, that would, like, be all professional and stuff... Go figure...

Thanks Nick for your insight. Sometimes we get caught up with expecting consistancy here in the world of academia. These wind tunnels are the loudest machines produced since the clones were unleashed in the late 1990's.

And when you get a job where you actually purchase computers en masse, perhaps you'll learn about all that crazy stuff, like, having a budget that must be used by a specific date (despite *credible* rumors), client NEEDS, realistic time frames for completion of tasks, etc.

Again, I'm not trying to be an ass about it, rather, sharing some frustrations and perhaps shedding a little light from the other side. If it were my personal G4 for home use, I wouldn't question shelling out the $20. I'd consider it an upgrade. But in a business world, nope, sorry. I'd bend Michael Dell over my desk to fix a noisy fan, just 'cuz I payed for a 3 year next day service agreement.

'nuff said, time for a fresh drink.
cheers y'all
-me again

GetSome681

Feb 22, 2003, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Chisholm
Sorry dude, forgot to tell you something, not all professors like to yell above the noise generated by a classroom of machines. The students are noisy enough as it is.

1. I wasn't talking about redoing 1 machine, rather over 100 of them.
2. A 30 minute timeframe per machine is not unreasonable, I'll be training work study students to do this most likely and they NEED to take the time to do it right the first time. Perhaps you think its acceptable to close the case up with a few "extra screws" left over. have you even read the instructions for this procedure?
3. When you purchase 120 or so Quicksilvers and they perform at a certain level, then turn around and order 40 more and end up with noise tunnels, oh I mean Mirrored Macs, well....^$@& not sure what YOUR job is, but I ultimately work for professors that are always right. They are my customers, if you will.
4. Sorry you went to a college with such noisy computer labs. Come to the University of Alabama, College of Communications and Information Technology and we'll try to help you with your trauma. Maybe even learn you a thing or two.

I wasn't TRYING to be an ass, I just was. Sorry.

:p

I know how many machines you were talking, and yes I think 30 minutes is ridiculous. I've built probably 50 PCs so far, and that's a little more than removing a few screws, and replacing a few fans. Please don't give yourself too much credit thinking this install procedure will be quite difficult.

It's sad that people were spoiled by all the previous apple machines, where almost every mac line was close to silent. That's changing now though, especially since we're finally getting some "decent" chips out, and as chips get faster and faster it's inevitable they will require more cooling.

And don't worry...no school trauma...went to Georgia Tech.

I'm not trying to be an ass either, it's just sorta disappointing that so many people are complaining, stating that apple has really screwed them over. Sounds is something that is common to computers, and has just been something apple has never really had much of before, but that doesn't mean they are required to stay that way forever. Increasing computer performance mandated increased cooling no matter what chip technologies are incorporated. It's just that simple, or spend extra $$ for fans that produce less noise while moving the the same or more volume of air..aka apple's $20 charge!

Chisholm

Feb 22, 2003, 01:11 AM

)Originally posted by GetSome681
I know how many machines you were talking, and yes I think 30 minutes is ridiculous. I've built probably 50 PCs so far, and that's a little more than removing a few screws, and replacing a few fans. Please don't give yourself too much credit thinking this install procedure will be quite difficult.

It's sad that people were spoiled by all the previous apple machines, where almost every mac line was close to silent. That's changing now though, especially since we're finally getting some "decent" chips out, and as chips get faster and faster it's inevitable they will require more cooling.

And don't worry...no school trauma...went to Georgia Tech.

I'm not trying to be an ass either, it's just sorta disappointing that so many people are complaining, stating that apple has really screwed them over. Sounds is something that is common to computers, and has just been something apple has never really had much of before, but that doesn't mean they are required to stay that way forever. Increasing computer performance mandated increased cooling no matter what chip technologies are incorporated. It's just that simple, or spend extra $$ for fans that produce less noise while moving the the same or more volume of air..aka apple's $20 charge!

I am wondering if Apple jumped into something with a supplier for their power supplies that didn't, in the long run (less than 6 months) turn out to be a good decision.

Yeah, I've built a bunch of PC's, big deal. I can make one louder than a 1984 Trans Am if I want. But why?

And I hate to double quote, but

"It's sad that people were spoiled by all the previous apple machines, where almost every mac line was close to silent. That's changing now though, especially since we're finally getting some "decent" chips out, and as chips get faster and faster it's inevitable they will require more cooling."

Why are the newer Mirrored Macs more quiet (from what I've heard, pun intended:p ) The new one's are faster right? Inevitable they will require more cooling? Nope. Traditionally chips end up running cooler as the manufacturing process is perfected.

Maybe I should start a petition for "alternative cooling sources" on the 'net. Damn, you'd think I live in Cali or something.

As always, glad to converse with a fellow southerner GetSome.

Really y'all, I'm just a little tipsy.

-me, yet again

jacka55

Feb 22, 2003, 02:09 AM

As long as I can remember, Apple has charged 20 bucks for almost every special program. Since the dawn of time (At least since OS 7.5) they've charged 20 bucks for all Mac OS Up-to-Date program installments. And, which I considered kind of like the Up-to-Date program, they charged 20 bucks for shipping the free 10.1 update. Yet each time Apple anounces that something is 20 bucks, it seems that the same group of people is surprised.

As for the not-so-flamy-flame-war, the department that I work for at my university had to pay 20 dollars a copy for OS 10.2 when our eMacs came with OS 10.1. We were happy that we didn't have to pay 70 dollars a copy.

Considering the fact that the instructions have 29 individual figures describing how to remove the power supply, a 30 minute time frame is reasonable. For me, that's quick. I like to explore while I'm in there (well, at least on the first machine).

Additionally, It might be worth a shot to contact Apple about getting 100 power supplies. I'm sure that they would consider working out a batch order instead of requiring you to individually enter every serial number in the form and subsequently ordering every power supply one by one, and then getting 100 packages with 100 allen wrenches and 100 sets of instructions...

In summary, if Dell, or any other computer company in the universe, would admit that my much hated laptop is obnoxiosly loud and sent me a kit wholly at their expense, and came and installed it for me, then I might complain about Apple charging 20 bucks. But as far as I know, few computer companies have ever offered to replace an aesthetic problem for such a low total cost.

yamadataro

Feb 22, 2003, 03:02 AM

Just been to the Apple Japan site and they still have no info on the exchange.
I'm hoping to get my unit replaced soon.

As to the $20 price tag, I think it's totally reasonable considering the fact that Apple didn't ship any defective hardware. They are trying to improve it and to replace the unit for us practically for free. Doing anything like this will cost Apple soooo much more than $20 for each unit, including cost of hiring management and shipping people and the cost of actual unit and the shipping.

Think business guys!

I personally don't think the sound is that bad. I keep the PM under the desk anyway. I've become used to the sound already.

It would be nice to get it quieter that's all.

Hemingray

Feb 22, 2003, 03:03 AM

Whatever you guys do, don't dare to disagree with Richard over at G4noise.com! Apparently, everyone that doesn't believe that Apple owes this to original MDD owners is "clued out". :rolleyes: I dared to suggest that Apple was not obligated to do this, and here's the reply I got:

Reader, I am very sorry that you still don't get it. This is about servicing a customer constituency. While you can make what you believe to be your airtight case that "there are no performance problems, thus this ws titally unnecessary and out of the goodness of their hearts", you seem more intent on trying to slap down a class of people than to recognize that multiple reasons why Apple acted. You don't have the evidence and, frankly, you won't get it, so you have no ability to comment on what the evidence shows.

I'm sorry that you are not as smart as you think you are, but Apple, on the other hand, IS smart to have finally listened to its PRO-MEDIA constituents. I doubt very seriously you are a creative person. You may think that's a slight, but it's not. You just probably aren't a creative person and thus you are not as sensitive to a persistent oscillating high frequency whine.

I know many engineers who could work with jackhammers in the same room, and as long as the processor compiled the data without error, no biggie. Likewise, "loud computer? who says? It meets the spec. Look right here." That kind of narrow thinking is what makes you who you are. That's fine.

However: Apple is a business, and if your theory is correct -- and it's not -- why in the world would a company go through the trouble to create this fix, set up infrastructure in all those territoris, train the AASPs, produce a quicktime video of instructions -- if it didn't impact their bottom line. You think the costs of this fix are going to be written as a PR line item? I doubt it. Try "Customer Retention" line item and "New Customer Acquisition" or "Litigation".

There's already plenty enough noise coming from these MDD's. What the world needs now is surely not more uninformed noise from you.

Apple did the right thing when it was forced to. And guess what? Everyone of us LOVES OSX and the Mac Platform. I'll bet you $100 I've owned Macs longer than you. So shut your hole.

Gee, well let's see... One, I am a graphic designer, so I'd say that definitely qualifies me as a "creative person" (whatever that has to do with the issue anyway...). Two, I troubleshoot Macs for a living as well, so I'm not as "clued out" as he'd like to believe. Three, I've owned Apple products since before the Macintosh was even introduced. Does that mean he owes me $100 instead? :p What a self-righteous ass.

gotohamish

Feb 22, 2003, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by Hemingray
Whatever you guys do, don't dare to disagree with Richard over at G4noise.com! Apparently, everyone that doesn't believe that Apple owes this to original MDD owners is "clued out". :rolleyes: I dared to suggest that Apple was not obligated to do this, and here's the reply I got:

Gee, well let's see... One, I am a graphic designer, so I'd say that definitely qualifies me as a "creative person" (whatever that has to do with the issue anyway...). Two, I troubleshoot Macs for a living as well, so I'm not as "clued out" as he'd like to believe. Three, I've owned Apple products since before the Macintosh was even introduced. Does that mean he owes me $100 instead? :p What a self-righteous ass.

Yeah, he spelling leaves a little to be desired too - "territoris" - maybe that's a condition he has and we should go easy on him.

As for g4noise.com - I'm SICK of people talking about this site - get a life, Apple never promised quiet machines (except the Cube :D).

As for $20 - that's to cover employees dealing with requests, packing the item, shipping it, and covering return shipping. I wouldn't do that work for $20 - Apple are doing a great thing - we should be pleased! Well done Hemingray for posting that too!

NicoMan

Feb 22, 2003, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by finleymac
If this update makes in fans sound anything like the new MDD Powermacs (dual 1.4, ext.), I'm going to be pleased. I used one of the new PowerMacs (dual 1.2) at an Apple Store, and the noise really was quite pleasant. Just a low hum, that you could only hear if you listen really carefully.

Now if Apple could only fix the problem with 10.2.4 and the date and time resetting to 1969 that would be even better. And no, I don't have a dead battery

Have you tried repairing your file system permissions (Apps/Utilities/Disk Utility)? First thing to do after you install any update, whether it is OS or iApp update... It doesn't take too long and it solves A LOT of (potential) problems...

Hope that helps.

NicoMan (sorry for that off-topic intervention)

weev

Feb 22, 2003, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by gotohamish
YAs for $20 - that's to cover employees dealing with requests, packing the item, shipping it, and covering return shipping.

That's right, its also IMHO to cull out the customers who are happy with their machine who would only be sending away with the simple but frail human logic of "getting something for nothing"; not to mention those who may not even own a MDD PM who just want free computer parts, etc, etc...

kansaigaijin

Feb 22, 2003, 07:23 AM

does it mean anything to be a college professor anymore?

"I'd bend Michael Dell over my desk to fix a noisy fan, just 'cuz I payed for a 3 year next day service agreement. "

payed? really too sad.

ewinemiller

Feb 22, 2003, 07:29 AM

TZADOMI

Feb 22, 2003, 07:45 AM

attitude:mad: What I am going to say may get my newbie ass thrown off this forum, and that is fine. I have been saving since the PB15 came out so that I can AFFORD a f'in Mac. And to deal with the issue of salary, high 30's. I have been, and just this morning my g/f laughed seeing me looking at the rumor mills and apple website, extremely excited because I finally have enough to get the next 15 inch. I was proud because for the most part the people I have seen with issues, and accolades have been people that I respect, all ages their complaints are for the most part legitimate and they handle it in a professional manner.

That was until I read half of this string. For all you f'in whiny-ass, rich, preppie, spoiled, "Apple owes me this", "why do I have to pay 20", etc., assholes.... grow up!

1. You Have a Mac, a computer, a machine, etc. A lot still don't.
2. Apple owes you nothing! They are a company in the business of making money to maximize shareholders' wealth. Yes, customer satisfaction and service is important, I do it... I know, dealing with 25 million dollar accounts...but "my Apple has a pimple on its' ass" from you out of xxx customers is NOT the first thing they are thinking of fixing.
3. I never saw anything about the PMac being advertised as quiet... NEVER .... YOU assumed it would be quiet... remember that old saying? Assumption is the mother of all ****ups...
4. Apple is shutting you up, they are offering you a fix that quite frankly they do not have to offer you. And if I were supposed to push the button to authorize this, I would remove the button and lose it. Buy a comperable PC and tell me it is quiet... my POS 500 Mhz, 2 HDD's are whining almost as loud as your sorry asses.

In a time when people are staving, doing everything they can to make ends meet, and 200,000 men and women are over in, or on their was to Iraq to make it possible for you selfish, rude, spoiled brats to have the freedom to be your inconsiderate selfs, you sit here complaining that someone got tired of hearing you complain about something that really was not their responsibility, and so they are being GRACIOUS enough to offer a solution to all the people that REALLY have to have it quiet... and not the spoiled brats that are just complaining to have something to complain about becasue that is all they know how to do... to weed the needs out from the babies, I mean the "it would be nice" people, they make it slightly unappealing with a S/H charge... big ****ing deal... crawl back from where you came out of you mother, you are not ready for the real world.

jamilecrire

Feb 22, 2003, 09:29 AM

Oh my god people $20 for shipping isn't that much because remember they are shipping the new supply to you, including a free return airbill and you are shipping it back. Go find out on FedEx how much it will cost to ship from anywhere in the country (remember you have to find the most expensive) to Apple and then back.

I hate when people get something for free and they bitch about it. Welcome to the world of the Apple User.

I paid 19.95 for the fulfillment program for OS 9 when I bought a boxed copy of 10.2. You didn't see me bitching on these boards. Grow up people.

Originally posted by G4scott
It's amazing how easily replacable everything in the PowerMacs is... It's also the first time that I've seen Apple let people remove the power supply and fan on their own without voiding the warranty. I'm going for this kit right away. Although $20 is still a bit for shipping, nowhere does it say that the new PowerMacs have to be quiet. You can argue all you want, but it's not going to change the facts...

It's really cool, though, because you have to remove a grand total of 6 screws (maybe just 5...) do swap the powersupply and a fan. Apple has really made this PowerMac easy to switch parts out. Now, if their laptops were just as easy to get into...

sedarby

Feb 22, 2003, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by nickgold
I'm not trying to be too smug about this, but if you're at all serious about recording audio in a studio environment, you have an isolated and specifically designed and soundproofed recording room/booth that has NO gear in it other than a microphone. I can't imagine trying to record audio with _any_ tower in the same room -- or at least doing so, and pretending to be at all professional.

And let me be straight -- I do NOT run or manage a recording studio, although I have been working with Mac audio for about 6 years or so. And even _I_ know that recording in a room with a computer tower is, uh -- lame.

I was just giving an example of a situation where the noise could be a problem. Lets say you are a graphic artist or web designer/developer and have to sit in front of this thing for 8-12 hours straight. The noise level would be unacceptable.

Apple messed up severely and will pay for this because this is just the impetus a lot of studios (audio and otherwise) needed to move over to Windows. I hope they learn to take noise into consideration for future designs.

e-coli

Feb 22, 2003, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by toontra
e-coli
Could you explain further; do you mean you're still getting too much noise? If so, where do you reckon it's comming from - or is it just that the replacement components aren't much quieter? Do you know for sure that you've got the same parts that Apple are offering as replacement under this new scheme?

PS bbarnhart
It's not surprising that you haven't noticed the noise as you have the latest model which is apparently a lot quieter; this was a problem with the previous release MDD's.

Well, they acknowledged they had a problem, and sent me a new power supply, but it's maybe 5db quieter at the most. it's still quite annoying.

robguz

Feb 22, 2003, 10:11 AM

This is one case where I'm happy to pay the $20. Yes, I knew it was noisy when I bought it, and it bugs me anyway, but I just figured I'd do the fan hack at some point. Now I don't have to void my warranty and it will come with clear instructions by Apple. Yes, I could bitch and moan about 20 bucks, but it's not that much, it's what they charge to ship software, so if anything, they are clearly losing money on this.

Thanks Apple for doing the right thing!

Mosco

Feb 22, 2003, 10:16 AM

this is different if you had gotten your power supply replaced before by apple. This power supply i believe is the new 360 watt model and they give you a new system fan. so if you got your 400watt swapped out for a new 400 watt and didn't notice a difference it might be worth trying this one.

people complaining about us complaining about our loud machines need to stop. you don't own one of these machines so you can't judge the moise levels. not all of them are loud but some like mine output a very loud whining noise that sometimes gives me a headache. and you can't the noise by checking them out in the store, because if you could i probably wouldn't have this machine.

Dont Hurt Me

Feb 22, 2003, 10:37 AM

I think everyone should be glad apple has decided to do something, they could have said oh well! And please remember this all goes back to motorola who cant seem to make faster chips so apple has to cool the piss out of them to get 1.2-1.42. Did moto but not say they will have a 1.3 mass produced 4th qtr this year. Be Happy Apple is trying to make you happy and still get the most out of those suck butt non advancing MOTOROLA CHIPS!

Ty C

Feb 22, 2003, 10:40 AM

I just ordered a MDD powermac (specs below) from Apple, in fact its coming tuesday. Is the problem going to come fixed?

Mosco

Feb 22, 2003, 10:54 AM

yeah, it will come fixed. the new ones already have the 360 watt power supplies. and i just remembered this, but i heard that the 360 watts power supplies are temp controlled, can anyone confirm?

puffmarvin

Feb 22, 2003, 11:05 AM

TZADOMI -

i applaud you. finally someone who wrote out everything i was thinking as well. bravo :p

greenstork

Feb 22, 2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Hemingray
What a self-righteous ass.

Self-righteous is not owning a MDD and telling people that they shouldn't be concerned over the noise. Where do you get off?

greenstork

Feb 22, 2003, 12:50 PM

To all those who are sick of the MDD complainers, consider this. This poorly engineered piece of hardware is affecting people's businesses, it's affecting their productivity. If it was affecting your bottom line, you'd be complaining too. You simply can't argue this if you don't own a MDD, you have no basis.

And you know what, thank goodness someone is complaining because if they didn't, Apple would be heading down the wrong road. You know the one where big businesses don't care about their customers and go on forcing bad products down their throat with savvy marketing (Microsoft anyone?)

The Apple motto is "Think Different" and it represents an "open source" business model if you will. They rely on customer feedback for innovation. If people aren't happy with their product, it affects their bottom line. Note the 20% decline in Power Mac sales in 4th quarter 2002. Don't think that this decline is directly attributable to these noisy, poorly engineered machines.

Sure, the folks at G4 Noise may have been a thorn in the side of Apple and these and other message boards but it is these people who keep Apple on their toes and keep their products top-notch. You should probably thank them rather than bitch at them.

No one likes a complainer, agreed, but just turn away if you have no experience with what they are bitching about. Go to another thread and talk about mac tablets like you always do and stay out of issues that don't concern you.

For the record, I own a MDD dual 1GHz, I am pissed about the noise, in case you couldn't infer. I could care less about $20 and in fact requested to purchase a new power supply from Apple at full cost which I was not allowed to do (before the PS replacement kit). I think people who are complaining about the $20 are ridiculous. I never expected a fix from Apple but it would have affected any future Apple purchases of mine. If I don't like a product I just won't buy it again and that is how the system is supposed to work. Do I love everything about my computer but the noise? YES ABSOLUTELY. That being said, I wanted Apple to come up with a fix and renew my faith that Apple is a company that thinks different, that goes the extra mile for its customers as I was led to believe before my first Mac.

This power supply fix does all that and more for me and now they have another pro-bono Apple saleman on their side. This replacement kit is savvy marketing & customer service, as it was intended to be. Go Apple, and go G4 Noise for forcing them to live up to what we expect from such a great company.

puffmarvin

Feb 22, 2003, 12:59 PM

thanks greenstork... i think you summed it up for everyone in this thread.

if you dont own a MDD powermac, you probably dont know what it sounds like day in and day out. but again, apple never promised the machine to be quiet. yes, it was loud and understandably some people got upset/pissed/etc...

like greenstork says... dont complain about the $20. apple is still taking some of the cost on their own shoulders here. applaud them because they make the best computers in the world and they are taking care of their customers. name ONE other company that would even offer something close to this. none come to my mind.

anyways, most of us on these boards are apple users so lets not ridicule eachother and say someone is an a**hole or retarded based on their beliefs just because we dont agree with them. to an outsider (a windows person), we look like a bunch of immature, whiny, snobby, elitist jerks and im sure we dont want that. so lets all relax, shall we?

cheers :)

Omad0n

Feb 22, 2003, 01:42 PM

Jebus I can't believe half you people. First of all I'd like to say I own a Dual 867 MDD. 2ndly I'd like to say I use it about 6 hours or more a day. Okay so now that I've gotten that out of the way maybe we can avoid the whole, oh you don't own one so don't bitch thing, or the you don't use one a lot a day so don't talk about smething you know nothing about. And yes I'm a "creative" person. By that I mean I compose music and such on my computer and with my synth. So lets have none of that crap either.

So here's what I've got to say, yes the machine is loud and if I concentrate on that pitch it can give me a headache. Also I do intend to get the upgrade. No I'm not goign to bitch about it. Because I agree with many others on here that there never was a promise of this machine being quiet. I for one thing it's a good move by apple to issue out this "upgrade."

Hemingray

Feb 22, 2003, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by greenstork
Self-righteous is not owning a MDD and telling people that they shouldn't be concerned over the noise. Where do you get off?

Huh? This guy refuses to accept any other view than his own. Any one else is "clued out" unless they agree with him. I would consider that self-righteous. And he's an ass to boot. :p

DavPeanut

Feb 22, 2003, 01:47 PM

I thought apple always used the quietest fans avaliable.

greenstork

Feb 22, 2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by DavPeanut
I thought apple always used the quietest fans avaliable.

On the contrary, the two delta fans in the current MDD power supplies are the loudest 60 mm fans on the market at 47 dba. To Delta's credit, they are also the most powerful at 37 cfm.

Foxer

Feb 22, 2003, 02:17 PM

I've got one of the dual 1.4 powermacs on order. Do y'all think that it will be built with the new power supply?

greenstork

Feb 22, 2003, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Foxer
I've got one of the dual 1.4 powermacs on order. Do y'all think that it will be built with the new power supply?

The new FW800 machines have all new fans and a new heatsink, making them quieter than their MDD predecessors. The new 360 watt power supply has Nidec fans and not the noisy Deltas.

sososowhat

Feb 22, 2003, 02:29 PM

I've got an older G4 Tower (400Mhz) not covered by this program. Does anyone have experience with quieter fans for this? What would you recommend? Is there a really really quiet solution?

finleymac

Feb 22, 2003, 02:33 PM

Back to the dead battery thing. I have zapped the PRAM, VRAM, and repaired with disk utility. I just replaced the PRAM battery three days ago to try to fix the problem, too.

For those of you that say I'm the only guy with the problem visit:
http://discusssearch.info.apple.com/WebX?127@@!keywords=10.2.4%201969

Over 100 people there are having the same problem. C'mon Apple, I sick of living in 1969.

finchna

Feb 22, 2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
From MacMinute:

...The Power Supply Exchange Program kit is available at no charge, with a shipping and handling fee of US$19.95. The kit contains the following items: power supply (360 W); system fan; allen key (2.5 mm); installation instructions; and a prepaid return airbill and instructions for returning the original components to Apple. ...

I'm curious what Apple is going to be doing with the returned supplies. Can they reuse them--perhaps in refurbished machines? Is Apple hoping for a quieter fan to use with these returned PSs in the future for use in refurbished machines? I don't recall if the supply inside my MDD machine has an integrated fan (the way the kit items read it may not be) and can't get to it for a couple of days, but if it was just a fan replacement then wouldn't they just send a fan? Is it the combination of the reduction in power and a less powerful fan that is quieting things? Any thoughts about what Apple will do with the returned PSs? Best wishes,

Nathan

cyks

Feb 22, 2003, 03:51 PM

it's not that I'm too upset that I'll have to pay $20 for replacements (I have a Dual 1Gz MDD), but rather that I can't simply go to a store to get one. Instead, we're forced to order and pay the $20 for it- and if we don't want to instal it ourselves, then bring it to an Apple store and pay them to do it for us.

Granted, I'll be more then happy to "get my hands dirty".... just don't like that I can't just pack everything up, go to the local mall and have everything done quick and easy.

Overall, very glad they finally admitted the problems - and even offered a fix at all...and one so cheap. I know I'll be eagerly waiting for mine.

avus

Feb 22, 2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by sososowhat
I've got an older G4 Tower (400Mhz) not covered by this program. Does anyone have experience with quieter fans for this? What would you recommend? Is there a really really quiet solution?

This isn't for everybody, but I drilled a hole just large enough to accommodate the ADC connector and speaker cable on the wall, and put my G4 533 Dual and two Firewire drives in a closet next to my room.

If you need to access the internal CD drive frequently, this obviously won't work, but I am very happy with this setup as I hate computer noise more than anything else.

spacehustler

Feb 22, 2003, 07:19 PM

All of us who complained to Apple about this health hazard should be pleased to see the fruits of our labor. I had actually reached the point of contacting lawyers and inquiring about a class-action lawsuit because I thought Apple would do nothing. I'm happy to be proven wrong!

Several people here have commented that Apple never promised quiet machines. This is incorrect. Apple has stated unambiguously in their own policies that they consider environmental noise to be hazardous (in agreement with all current scientific research on the subject, not to mention ISO standards) and that they intend to build quiet machines. While there will always be some subjectivity involved in what one considers "too loud" or "quiet", when noise levels exceed the threshold of physical pain for a substantial percentage of users, as do the original MDD's, I think it's quite reasonable to claim that such a product is "too loud." In the future, we will undoubtedly have a standardized method of rating noise emissions (just as we rate CRT radiation emissions now) and legal limits on how much noise is allowed for specific intended uses and environments. Apple has always been on the leading edge of this kind of effort by self-regulating the noise emissions from their machines and, again, have stated as much in their own policies. So, when a company explicitly claims that they produce quiet machines, it is reasonable to expect them to live up to those claims. BTW, I bought my MDD 867 from an Apple store and it seemed dead quiet there. I hadn't read about any noise problems and, once again, due to Apple's own claims and history of quiet machines, didn't think to bring an SPL meter or anything. stupid me ;)

g4noise.com was/is in the process of proving that the MDD's are a health hazard because they cause physical pain (headaches). So hooray for them. I think Apple saw the writing on the wall and knew that they might lose an impending product liability lawsuit (or at least didn't want the bad publicity). Conspicuously, Apple never published official noise specifications for the original MDD's, probably because they violate the ISO specs. Also, the fact that Apple bragged about making the latest generation of MDD's considerably quieter is tantamount to admitting that there was a design flaw in the original MDD's. These are just a couple of indicators that show Apple's potential vulnerability to a lawsuit.

Anyway, I think this "fix" offer from Apple is absolutely fair (and what most of us were asking for from the beginning) The $20 fee is probably called "shipping and handling" for legal reasons - you can't ask for a much better legal redress than a "free" fix, right? - but, again, I think it's fair. In fact, I give Apple credit for keeping this price so low as it must represent a slight overall loss for them (or break-even at best). However, I give us "compainers" the most credit. If not for our vocal outrage, we never would have seen this offer from Apple.

I am utterly confused by some of the posts here by people who would have us suffer physical pain in deference to some kind of bizarre allegiance to Apple. I love Apple products, but I don't live in a fantasy-land where I pretend that Apple is all-knowing and never makes a mistake. I will not tolerate a product that negatively affects my health. Anyone who would tolerate such a thing is uninformed of or simply doesn't care about their rights as a consumer. I feel sorry people who fall into that category but I don't condemn them and I can't understand why they would want to silence those of us who reasonably demand satisfaction for a real and quantifiable product malfunction. Apple thinks the noise problem is a real malfunction, otherwise they wouldn't have fixed it in the new MDD's. Ultimately, Apple also decided that our complaints were justified, otherwise they wouldn't have offered this replacement at such a low price. So who exactly are you angry with? Apple, for agreeing with us? More importantly, why do you care?

So, power to the people :) - we win and, in the long run, Apple wins. yay!

slfunk

Feb 22, 2003, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by jacka55
But as far as I know, few computer companies have ever offered to replace an aesthetic problem for such a low total cost.

Aesthetic?! WTF world do you live on? The damn thing gives me headaches if I spend more than an hour in the same room with it. Accept that Apple made a mistake and is trying to rectify it. I , for one, am withholding my approval on this being a problem solver until the 'fix' is installed in my noisemaker and it doesn't give me headaches anymore (and this comes from someone who has used DP P3 system for two years.. NO WHERE NEAR AS NOISY as the G4 DP 867 I bought 5 weeks ago..)

Rower_CPU

Feb 22, 2003, 09:08 PM

I think the toughest thing about this whole argument is that everyone's milage may vary.

My dual 1GHz MDD at work is not bad enough to give me headaches, but is noticably louder than any previous models. Some people's MDDs might be better, some might be worse.

I think it's impossible to say with any certainty that what you experience is the same as everyone else.

slfunk

Feb 22, 2003, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I think the toughest thing about this whole argument is that everyone's milage may vary.

My dual 1GHz MDD at work is not bad enough to give me headaches, but is noticably louder than any previous models. Some people's MDDs might be better, some might be worse.

I think it's impossible to say with any certainty that what you experience is the same as everyone else.

READ: ENVIRONMENT :-)
Ambient noise offsets the headache inducing sounds. Put the same unit in a home office and tell me that it doesn't do the same thing to you.

prewwii

Feb 22, 2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Timothy
I am amazed that people would complain so strongly against a shipping and handling fee. The loudness of the G4 is not "Apples Mistake" as has been implied. Loudness is a subjective term, and there is no measure.

Sound is measureable. Remember you can't improve what you can't measure. Apple is telling us this is an improvement.

Apple knew exactly what they shipped or they need to fire the person who hired their Test Engineering staff. My guess is they tried to take a cost saving short cut and got their equipment caught in a wringer.

If the supplies are being shipped back that means Apple it retrofitting them and sending them out as replacements. Which means some or all are getting used power supplies of unknown capabilities for their new Mac's. If that were not the case you could save the $10 for return shipments.

So what is the warranty on the replacement supply vs getting a new supply with a new power supply warranty?

scem0

Feb 22, 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by kazuo
I don't see the reason why real news are posted on this site. I thought it's for rumours or things expected to happen only.

The new fan must be significantly quieter or Apple wouldn't waste the effort. It's subjective all right, but some guys just complain more than women. Stop the b!tching!

Look at the title of the main page.... It says 'news'.

saint.duo

Feb 22, 2003, 11:32 PM

I don't know about the Apple stores, but I know that the service centers and specialists can not get this kit as a "part", and Apple would not reimburse us for doing the install. I'm glad they're not saying we'll do it for free, though I'm sure I will be doing a lot of these for my customers as a service to them.

The things I've noticed different about the MD G4s and the FW800 ones for cooling are:
Different main fan with collar that almost touches the heat sink. (sp?)
Lower wattage PSU with different, quieter fans.
High efficiency heat sink (more surface area).
More holes in the back, a regular pattern, including in the PCI covers.
Different air intake design in the lower front.

Sorry, but I couldn't help but comment on the installation by service centers statement.

Originally posted by cyks
it's not that I'm too upset that I'll have to pay $20 for replacements (I have a Dual 1Gz MDD), but rather that I can't simply go to a store to get one. Instead, we're forced to order and pay the $20 for it- and if we don't want to instal it ourselves, then bring it to an Apple store and pay them to do it for us.

finchna

Feb 22, 2003, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by prewwii

If the supplies are being shipped back that means Apple it retrofitting them and sending them out as replacements. Which means some or all are getting used power supplies of unknown capabilities for their new Mac's. If that were not the case you could save the $10 for return shipments.

So what is the warranty on the replacement supply vs getting a new supply with a new power supply warranty?

It doesn't seem like Apple could use these returned supplies in new machines since they'll all be 400 W and the ones in the new machines (and the replacements) are 360 W--seems like the difference would be evident if you know where to find that information.

From the Apple offer page:

Q. Are the new components covered by a warranty?

Yes. Both power supply and system fan are covered by a 90-day warranty or the remainder of the warranty or your Apple extended service agreement (such as AppleCare Protection Plan) covering the Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) computer into which they are installed, whichever is longer.

Nathan

steeleclipse

Feb 24, 2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by nickgold
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man, but that's a problem with YOUR computer -- not 10.2.4. Maybe you need to --

- Zap PRAM

- try a different user account, see if the issue is present

- reinstall OS X (worst case scenario)

If none of that stuff works, it likely _is_ a physical problem with your computer.

Hate to say it there big guy, wait actually i dont.

You're wrong.

There are several people that this is happening to, including me. Apple discussion boards are exploding with this problem.

Maybe you shouldn't go giving advice about something you don't know about. What if he did what you said and wasted all that time reinstalling OSX? Apple is taaking care of it.

Didn't you say you have a sawtooth??? Again, you are butting your nose into MDD situations. A little jealous of our gear perhaps?

Like I said, go back to Sushi, Rookie.

andrewlandry

Mar 5, 2003, 01:39 PM

Almost everytime I see obnoxious posts in MacRumors, they are from SteelEclipse. Just an observation.

Wash!!

Mar 5, 2003, 02:11 PM

Spike Spiegel

Mar 5, 2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by steeleclipse
Hate to say it there big guy, wait actually i dont.

You're wrong.

There are several people that this is happening to, including me. Apple discussion boards are exploding with this problem.

Maybe you shouldn't go giving advice about something you don't know about. What if he did what you said and wasted all that time reinstalling OSX? Apple is taaking care of it.

Didn't you say you have a sawtooth??? Again, you are butting your nose into MDD situations. A little jealous of our gear perhaps?

Like I said, go back to Sushi, Rookie.

wow! I dont know if you knew this or not steele, but you are asshole! I mean, instead of just respecting his opinions you jumped down his throat for the sole reason that he doesnat have an MDD. You are a very self-righteous, deluded individual, and shouldnt be posting on these boards.

imaswitcheryeah

Mar 5, 2003, 04:26 PM

yeah steel.. relax. why are you being such a dick? these boards are here to help each other out.

crazytom

Mar 7, 2003, 12:27 PM

I ordered a new PS for my MDD and Apple said that they'd give weekly emails updating the status of the order. Has anyone else ordered and received the promised status email? It's been two weeks for me and I haven't received anything. (Yes, I know that they won't ship until the 10th of March).

Rower_CPU

Mar 7, 2003, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by crazytom
I ordered a new PS for my MDD and Apple said that they'd give weekly emails updating the status of the order. Has anyone else ordered and received the promised status email? It's been two weeks for me and I haven't received anything. (Yes, I know that they won't ship until the 10th of March).

No emails here.

finchna

Mar 12, 2003, 07:26 PM

I just ordered mine and received this message on the confirmation web page:

Power Mac G4 Power Supply Exchange Program
Thank you for placing your order.
Orders will begin shipping in limited quantities on:
April 01, 2003

Because product availability can change rapidly, order status updates will be sent as information becomes available.

TMJ1974

Mar 16, 2003, 11:40 PM

Just thought you might "enjoy" this note I just got from Apple ......

Dear valued Apple customer,

Thank you for participating in the Power Mac G4 Power Supply Exchange Program. Due to an unexpected supply delay, limited quantities of the kits will begin shipping at the end of March 2003. There has not been a change to the original lead time Apple quoted you when you placed your order.

Product availability can change rapidly, and order status updates will be sent as soon as new information becomes available. Please do not call requesting order status.

We appreciate your understanding.

Ummmmm.......no comment from me at this time...Tim

AppleMatt

Mar 17, 2003, 04:03 PM

Hi All,

This is my first post, its been quite very hostile in this thread, hopefully I won't be on the receiving end...

Re: 10.2.4 date problem, as you all no doubt now know it IS a 10.2.4 problem (confirmend by Apple to affect only certain G4's), and it has been FIXED in the 10.2.5 seed.

Re: Power supply.

This is good. If this issue was not raised, Apple may have continued to use loud fans in future models. Audio professionals ARE affected by this, as are Joe public. (No I am not an audio professional). Before you scream "Apple say nothing about the volume of their products", apply the idea of excess noise (or any other behaviour) to other products and see if you would buy them.

I do not know the ins and outs, but I know there ARE laws (in the UK at least) on the noise emitted by computers in the workplace, as there are for radiation from monitors etc. Previewing a mac in a shop (high ceilings, open plan etc) is very different from hearing it in a closed space.

If you do not want to replace it you don't have to.

Re: shouting at someone because they take 30 mins to install a power supply...why? Not every mac user out there wants to rush in, rush out. Not every mac user CAN rush in rush out. He made some very good points in his post which were overlooked.

Finally not everyone can preview a mac, and it is not unreasonable to expect that a new computer (new usually means technological ADVANCES) will not be overly noisy, there is no way of predicting this. Look at the old iMac advertising material, Apple blab on for ages about its lack of a fan making it the "world's quietest computer". While G4 towers are not iMacs, we would expect a company to be consistent with its "values"

All that was IMHO. :)

ryanide

Mar 27, 2003, 01:20 PM

Just recieved and installed the new power supply and fan. Huge difference in noise level. I never could hear the hard drives before because the fan was so loud, and now it is the hard drives that make the loudest noise. I'm so thankful Apple did this. Other people (including my neighbors) will be able to sleep at night while I work! :)

The installation took a good 30 minutes, but wasn't too difficult.

ryanide

Mar 27, 2003, 01:40 PM

The enclosed paper titled Parts Disposal says "The parts you have replaced as part of this exchange program should be disposed of in accordance with local laws." ther is no mention anywhere of sending them back to Apple. I thought they wanted the parts back??? Now what am I supposed to do with them?

I think I'll drop them off at the local Apple Store!:D

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Mar 29, 2003, 04:12 PM

There's a video here to see the difference before and after installation.

http://homepage.mac.com/bsharp1/iMovieTheater14.html

It does sound a bit better. Can't wait for mine.

crazytom

Mar 29, 2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger
There's a video here to see the difference before and after installation.

http://homepage.mac.com/bsharp1/iMovieTheater14.html

It does sound a bit better. Can't wait for mine.

That's actually a video to the differences of a power supply muffler...

I've been hearing very good reports (from g4noise.com) about the quieter levels from the new PS and 120mm fans. Now someone just needs to report about the differences in processor/internal temps with the new stuff installed.

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Apr 4, 2003, 01:37 AM

I'm just got my fan today and I gave it to my local AASP. They gave me a 3-5 business day wait for them but at least I don't have to pay for any of it.

I'll post my reactions when I get my PMac back....till then....I'll be on my PC....urrrggghhhh......

zoetropeuk

Apr 4, 2003, 02:57 AM

I've just finished installing my new PSU and fan and to my amazement it is ACTUALLY LOUDER then the one it replaced. Now I have to go to the trouble of replacing the new with the old. What a pain in the A@SE !!!!

Doctor Q

Apr 4, 2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by zoetropeuk
I've just finished installing my new PSU and fan and to my amazement it is ACTUALLY LOUDER then the one it replaced.Any idea why?

jeremy.king

Apr 4, 2003, 12:53 PM

Since, this was my first thread with any volume. I thought I would let everyone know I got my fan last night, FINALLY.

My first impression...ITS MONSTEROUS! I am going to try to install tonight and will try to take some pictures of the process and maybe post somewhere.

Wish me luck, this doesn't look easy.

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Apr 4, 2003, 06:11 PM

Alright, I just got mine back from my AASP. It does sound quieter. Comparing it to the old, I can live with this one. Of course I might add that I didn't have to pay for the installation either..... that and I don't even have to ship back the old one.

In my opinion, Apple did good.

crazytom

Apr 4, 2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger
Alright, I just got mine back from my AASP. It does sound quieter. Comparing it to the old, I can live with this one. Of course I might add that I didn't have to pay for the installation either..... that and I don't even have to ship back the old one.

In my opinion, Apple did good.

That's good to hear! (or hear less of!)

Did you get charged for the PS/fan....I've heard some reports were people who received their new PS and hadn't been charged for it. Why do I doubt that Apple would be THAT generous?

Nipsy

Apr 4, 2003, 06:35 PM

Wheres my Power Supply?

It has been too long.

crazytom

Apr 4, 2003, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Nipsy
Wheres my Power Supply?

It has been too long.

I guess the current round of PS shipments are done... Now it's going to be another 4-6 weeks for the next batch.

Check out g4noise.com (http://www.g4noise.com)

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Apr 4, 2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by crazytom
That's good to hear! (or hear less of!)

Did you get charged for the PS/fan....I've heard some reports were people who received their new PS and hadn't been charged for it. Why do I doubt that Apple would be THAT generous?

Yes, I got charged the 20 bucks. I thought my AASP would charge me but they told me I didn't have to. Thank God!

Woohoo! Good Day

Chisholm

Apr 5, 2003, 06:46 PM

Do you think they'd do the 100+ machines I have at work? :D

It could be a good excuse for a road trip I think!

If they don't want the parts back, why the $20 for shipping? I think shipping the whole machine is around $25.

cheers!
John

crazytom

Apr 5, 2003, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Chisholm
Do you think they'd do the 100+ machines I have at work? :D

It could be a good excuse for a road trip I think!

If they don't want the parts back, why the $20 for shipping? I think shipping the whole machine is around $25.

cheers!
John

Wow! You have 100+ MDD's at work?!? That must be a crazy kinda loud!

I think that the $20 pays for the shipping and a very small part of the cost of the new PS. I'm sure Apple is taking a sizable loss on these, but if you have 5000 people replacing their PS's, that's $100K to ease the financial blow. I have a feeling that they crunched the numbers and figured out it would cost them a lot more to process the returns: return shipping, manpower to process it, disposal fees, etc.

I'm just happy that they answered all of the complaints about noise. $20 is a small price to pay.

blufire

Apr 5, 2003, 10:14 PM

I received my kit last week... installed it in about 15 minutes (but I've been inside my MDD many, many times since I got it a month after they were released). My computer wasn't unbearably loud beforehand, but just loud enough for me to notice that it's much louder than all my other Macs I've owned before. Overall, I'd say the hardest part of the installation was the power supply. Make sure you push in both ends of the power supply at the same time (just a little tip). ;) oh, and the fan power connector will almost certainly break. Oh well, no biggie.

Overall, I think it's a pretty big improvement over the original noise level. It can still be slightly noisy when "revving up" (ha), but it's still quieter, on average about the same level as my Power Mac G3 beige minitower. The biggest noticeable difference is when you turn it on. The Papst fan is definitely a lot quieter than the old Delta, but it seems to have minor stability inconsistencies... the fan blade assembly wobbles a little at times, and makes noticeable sound pulses.. but overall it's a big improvement and worth $20. However, unless you seriously NEED the near-silence of the Verax solution (g4noise.com has more info on that), I wouldn't pay the 100-some dollars for it. In my opinion, the $20 apple solution is worth it overall.

caveman_uk

Apr 6, 2003, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by blufire
Overall, I'd say the hardest part of the installation was the power supply. Make sure you push in both ends of the power supply at the same time (just a little tip). ;) oh, and the fan power connector will almost certainly break. Oh well, no biggie.
Agreed. Got mine about a fortnight after I ordered it (in the UK delivered from the Netherlands). Getting the new PS in was a bit of a pain with pushing, shooving and generally swearing then suddenly 'Click!' it's in. Yep and the fan connector is a bit delicate....be GENTLE! I didn't snap mine but it looks an easy thing to do if you're a bit heavy handed...:rolleyes: It's quite a bit quieter now but by now means silent. The loudest thing is when the superdrive starts up.

d46799

Apr 7, 2003, 04:56 AM

Loud Powermac?

Try loud like a 747 revving up in my living room. It sounds almost as bad as my Pee Sea. Come a long way from the cube days--in the wrong direction.

crazytom

Apr 8, 2003, 10:45 PM

Yep, I got my new power supply and fan. I got it all installed and there's quite a difference, even from the mod I made to the first PS (installing Thermaltake's). Now it's pretty quiet except I hear one frequency in the 1K-2KHz range. I figured out that it's the case itself! I put something heavy on the top of it and it almost went away. I guess I'll have to get in there one more time with some foam to stop the vibration.

Anyway, I can finally hear my CD drive spinning...so it's a big improvement from what it was originally! :)

jeremy.king

Apr 9, 2003, 09:48 AM

So yeah, when they say be careful with the clip for the fan lead, they mean it. Thats the only thing I screwed up.

Total time: maybe 20 mins.

Total reward: My PC now reigns as the loudest computer in my office.

WOW! What a difference. I highly recommend if you haven't done so already, order the replacement.

I am now happy :) <-----see

Now...any ideas as to what to do with the old one? Besides dispose of it properly?

crazytom

Apr 9, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by kingjr3

Now...any ideas as to what to do with the old one? Besides dispose of it properly?

Save it for a backup power supply...sell it on eBay...use it for a doorstop/paper weight....take out the circuit boards/fans and use it as a mailbox/birdhouse...mount the 120mm fan on top of your monitor and have your own personal cooling fan...mount the 2 60mm fans on either side of a hat and have stereo cooling...the possibilities are endless!!! :D

TyleRomeo

Apr 9, 2003, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by crazytom
Save it for a backup power supply...sell it on eBay...use it for a doorstop/paper weight....take out the circuit boards/fans and use it as a mailbox/birdhouse...mount the 120mm fan on top of your monitor and have your own personal cooling fan...mount the 2 60mm fans on either side of a hat and have stereo cooling...the possibilities are endless!!! :D

hahahahahahaha

Chisholm

Apr 18, 2003, 02:58 PM

I just got my replacement and installed it. Took about 40 minutes or so. Replacing the fan was a little odd. No blood spilled, a very well thought out case.

It's purring like a kitten now right next to a dual 1.42 I unpacked a few days ago. I have a third MDD behind me running Server....I must now figure out what department needs to pay for it to be replaced.

cheers!

Nipsy

Apr 18, 2003, 05:56 PM

Still waiting impatiently...

Doctor Q

Apr 18, 2003, 07:05 PM

I'm still waiting too. I waited to order it until I heard how it went for the rest of you.

Gymnut

Apr 18, 2003, 10:23 PM

Cannot believe the complaints concerning the cooling fans. I'm guessing these are from people who drive vehicles with four cylinders since they cannot stand the roar of a V6 an up. I cannot hear my fan since the bass from my two subwoofers drown it out.

-Klipsch Promedia 2.1+Promedia SWS

fronheiser

Apr 19, 2003, 06:18 PM

While it never bothered me too much to hear the fan on my G4 dual 1 GHz, when I found out about the offer to replace it with a quieter fan, I sent the money in.

I got the package on Thursday and installed the fan on Friday -- actually, my wife installed it while I was interviewing on the phone.

Major difference. MAJOR. I never noticed how loud the thing was until noticing last night how quiet it is now.

And now I have an extra power supply I don't know what to do with.

Rich

Panda Genma

Apr 19, 2003, 07:33 PM

To the person who made the comment about cylender engines... turbo-charged WRX boxer engine baby! That will give you some roar. Anyway, moving on, the fan Apple sent me is a piece. It is quieter than the old one at low speed, but when the computer wakes up from sleep (Dual 1.25) the fan spins way up and it is wayyy louder than the old one. Also, the computer is a space heater. It gets so hot. I'm very disappointed. Apple did so much for the cube and iMac in the way of keeping cool and quiet. I'm going to get a fan somewhere else, probably from delta because my roommate has a newer dual 1.25 and that's what they are using in those. He's been having no trouble. I'm also looking into replacing the heat sink.

Nipsy

Apr 19, 2003, 08:07 PM

I ordered mine they damn day they were announced, and I'm 30 minutes from Cupertino. I'm reaching the point of driving down there....

Anyway, I ride two stroke race bikes which would drown out most dragsters, and all stock cars from America & Japan. I know loud, and I'm used to it.

However, I don't do it in my office. I want peace to a reasonable level. I can hear this machine over everything else at or around my desk.

Since I'm not continually wasting time paying games, and not always listening to iTunes, I get to hear the steady drone of the MDD powering well above my Athlon box.

It's loud.

Gone are the days when I could take a relaxing siesta on the sofa.

It's LOUD.

It's always on, droning away making the annoying hum that drives people insane.

slfunk

Apr 19, 2003, 09:08 PM

It's LOUD.

It's always on, droning away making the annoying hum that drives people insane. [/B]

Funny thing.. Apple sent me two replacement kits.. and you know what..? They don't make much of a difference at all (I had the first one installed at an AppleC dealer, installed the 2nd one a day later at home).

I switched and I am regretting it.. This is the thread at Apple that I started http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?128@201.I3QCaB3qj29.0@.3bc17bda

Doctor Q

Apr 29, 2003, 10:58 PM

My kit arrived today. If you never hear from me again (because I destroyed my Mac during the surgery), I bequeath my member name to D0ct0rteeth and my post count to the other participants of the infamous geek thread.

steeleclipse

Apr 30, 2003, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
My kit arrived today.

how long did it take? i am currently waiting on mine...

Doctor Q

Apr 30, 2003, 01:59 AM

It took exactly 1 month from date of order to date of receipt. It took me 90 minutes to install, mostly because I didn't have a magnetic screwdriver and twice I lost screws into the chassis and had to back up a few steps to get at them. I was extreeeeeeemly careful with the locking tab on the fan connector because all of you careless uncoordinated meatfisted brutes who went before me said it breaks off easily. Yup, I broke it. :mad: :rolleyes: Luckily, it only hurts my pride, not the computer.

A few notes about the QuickTime instructions (https://depot.info.apple.com/generic/index.html) and the printed instructions:

* It is worth going through the QuickTime videos a frame at a time before you start the surgery, to see how cables are routed. The photos in the printed instructions aren't quite as clear. And of course you can't use the computer to watch the video while you have it powered off on the operating table! If you really need to, you could have another computer in the room to display the videos, but it wasn't necessary.

* I found it helpful to write down which way the cables connected to the drives. For example, on my dual drives in the back bay, the upper drive uses the gray data cable and P2 power cable while the lower drive uses the black data cable and the P3 power cable.

* After you remove everything, you reverse the steps to put everything back together again, but they don't explicitly tell you to reconnect all the cables and reinstall all the screws. Do them when you come to them in reverse order of how you disassembled everything.

Boy is this computer quieter! Much to my surprise, I discovered that there were people, pets, telephones, doorbells, televisions, radios, and stereos in the house. I never heard any of them before. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but it really did make a noticeable difference.

FuzzyBallz

May 10, 2003, 03:57 PM

Just ordered mine, I hope Apple still have it in stock. The switch looks like child's play compare to PC installation...

Doctor Q

May 13, 2003, 05:41 PM

While looking for a proper way to dispose of the old power supply and fan, I came across a deal that HP is offering (http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/recycle/ecoupon.html) on computer recycling. HP does proper recycling of computers, monitors, printers, and other parts, for which they charge a fee. For the next few months, however, they will give you discounts on purchases at HP's online store when you recycle something. For example, if you recycle a computer and monitor, they charge you their usual $46 fee for pickup and processing, but they give you a $50 coupon good on any $60-or-more purchase from their store in the following 30 days. The computer doesn't have to be HP brand.

I don't think HP's deal applies to my Mac's old power supply, but I am passing along this information anyway since we should all look for proper ways to recycle computers rather than throw them in the trash.