Potential PS3 Downgrades [Archive]

harveypooka

Jun 11, 2006, 09:31 AM

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/sony/more-ps3-downgrades-on-the-way-179863.php#more

"Phantom Insider says: Fully functional PS3 betas still do not exist

Red says: hmm

Phantom Insider says: Despite that we have seen a number of downgrades

Red says: clock speed?

Red says: remember it was going to be 3.5 ghz?

Phantom Insider says: And now we have been told that the powersource might be an external 400 watt unit after all"

Read on...

Mord

Jun 11, 2006, 10:00 AM

jesus, notice how the new ps3 design is covered in vents? the dev kits melted down.

shadowmoses

Jun 11, 2006, 10:28 AM

Really looks like PS3 is heading for disaster, unless of course all this talk is speculation....

M$ must be having a field day, hearing all these stories, Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Sony delay the PS3 further but they will really need to pull a rabbit out of the hat if they are to come close to dominating the console market again this gen....

SHadoW

harveypooka

Jun 11, 2006, 10:29 AM

Some of the user comments on that article are quite fitting actually. One dude said that the PS2 was crappy but dominance in Japan and great advertising have made it what it is. It's really just was the perception of it is, not actually what it does. I mean, who cares if it's 3.2GHZ and not 3.5GHZ? As long as it performs (and has great games)...

MacRumorUser

Jun 11, 2006, 11:12 AM

Really looks like PS3 is heading for disaster, unless of course all this talk is speculation....

There's no smoke without fire.

Mord

Jun 11, 2006, 11:17 AM

apart from, smoke machines <_< >_>...... runs away.

Dagless

Jun 11, 2006, 11:33 AM

Alas Sony. The PS1 and 2 were your graces, the PSP and PS3 your graves.

thequicksilver

Jun 11, 2006, 12:06 PM

Alas Sony. The PS1 and 2 were your graces, the PSP and PS3 your graves.

Don't talk nonsense about the PSP. Sony have shipped over 17 million PSPs (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html) as of 31/3/06. It's comparable to the DS, which I think everyone accepts is an excellent device which has sold very strongly with around 19 million sales. Given the pretty sizeable price difference between the two, I'd describe these figures as impressive.

Sure, certain PSP features haven't caught on like Sony clearly thought they would - notably UMD films - but to say that the PSP will drive Sony to its grave is absolute drivel.

The PS3's prospects are looking decidedly mixed, yes, but it is worth recalling that similar things were said about the PS2 back in 1999/2000. It was too big, it was too (albeit not $500-600) expensive, games were going to load too slowly, it wasn't innovative enough, the logo looks like it was made in 1983, etc etc.

As uninterested as I am in the PS3 in the short term - the Wii looks like a far more compelling product in my mind - I think it'll do just fine. Especially once the early adopter cycle has ended, and it becomes truly affordable for the mass market.

2nyRiggz

Jun 11, 2006, 12:27 PM

^Indeed....PSP is doing really well for itself. I'm just going to wait to see the thing before i saying anything else.

Bless

Dagless

Jun 11, 2006, 01:14 PM

fair play, but if you missed it I bought a PSP and within 3 days realised that the games really are utter ****. the screen is horrible, I mean it has to be at least a 24-30ms response time. it HURTS. the battery is a nightmare, it barely lasted a trip in the car (2 hours), an hour inside then an hour on the train.
i dunno. just the consensus seems to be it's a nice looking machine but should never be picked up. This machine that Sony wanted to destroy Nintendo's handheld market with has had a pretty dismal offering. I mean I'm constantly reading Japanese and UK sales figures with PSP games rarely hitting the top 10, with low ratings etc. I dunno. their handheld assault just seems weak.

It won't drive Sony into a grave no, but if the PS3 is another huge loss to Sony and sustains minimal marketshare then perhaps their gaming division will cease to be.
suppose it is down to tastes. but I did open my mind and got VERY excited about PSP. only to feel it a pointless and dull machine. is this the Sony syndrome? Hype something until a dull machine comes out?

harveypooka

Jun 11, 2006, 03:01 PM

It won't drive Sony into a grave no, but if the PS3 is another huge loss to Sony and sustains minimal marketshare then perhaps their gaming division will cease to be.

Which would be very bad. We'd see more Bungie to Microsoft things. You know, no Mac stuff. There has to be a diverse and competitive arena for stuff to progress. I love(d?) Bungie...

Dagless

Jun 11, 2006, 05:02 PM

I found this very funny.

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/6465/ps3liebackend7qe.jpg

harveypooka

Jun 11, 2006, 05:44 PM

I found this very funny.

Funny! And true!

benyaimin

Jun 11, 2006, 06:33 PM

good thing i bought 360. :)

Mavimao

Jun 11, 2006, 06:58 PM

Don't talk nonsense about the PSP. Sony have shipped over 17 million PSPs (http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html) as of 31/3/06. It's comparable to the DS, which I think everyone accepts is an excellent device which has sold very strongly with around 19 million sales.

There's a difference between units SHIPPED and units SOLD.

Listen to the rhetoric: Sony never gives SOLD numbers only SHIPPED.

ReanimationLP

Jun 11, 2006, 07:18 PM

There's a difference between units SHIPPED and units SOLD.

Listen to the rhetoric: Sony never gives SOLD numbers only SHIPPED.

Shipped means that it shipped from the manufactuer in China to a warehouse.

sk1985

Jun 11, 2006, 10:05 PM

Those stats are most likely true for the moment. However as technology in production advance the production of material gets easier and easier. By the time the PS3 launches, I'm IBM and Sony will figure out a way to make a good deal of Cell processors (there two of the world's largest companies with a ton of resources). It doesn't surprise me that sony or IBM doesn't have a 3.2. or 3.5 GHz chip ready (at the current moment they might only have 2.8 Ghz models ready). Sony must be banking that a 3.5 or a 3.2 GHz models will be ready by the time of PS3 production. They'll either be forced to delay the system for those chips or they'll just bring out whatever model is ready (i.e 2.8 Ghz). If the 3.2 or 3.5 Ghz chip is late by a few months or is in limited production, then thats good news for M$ and Nintendo.

seenew

Jun 12, 2006, 12:32 AM

good thing i bought 360. :)

No it's not.

Ninja_Turtle

Jun 12, 2006, 02:24 AM

apart from, smoke machines <_< >_>...... runs away.

haha what were you smoking ?:D

Mord

Jun 12, 2006, 02:28 AM

No it's not.

fanboy alert.

which is ironic me saying seeing as this thread is one fanboy bonanza

aswitcher

Jun 12, 2006, 02:43 AM

I am not convinced we have really seen the final form factor and all the bits for the PS3. I expect to see a better refined form factor...

MacRumorUser

Jun 12, 2006, 05:12 AM

IBM chip yield has ALWAYS been piss poor on new chips. As mac users we should know this more than anyone. Keeping temperatures down, another thing IBM have never been able to master until late into a chips lifetime.

So is it really that surprising ?

Sny need to hit its deadline within the US & Japan.

IF they go ahead with 2.8ghz then expect all consoles to use 2.8 from now on. If the processor gets a speed boost later on it will be detremental to current/REV A purchasee's.

What I believe will happen, if crop yield continues to be a pain, is in October expect an announcement that Europe wont see the PS3 until after Christmas, possibly March/April 2007.

It's more important as I say to hit the USA and Japan with enough stock than to hit all three with very little. Or to delay three regions would be a NIGHTMARE.

I said all along that Sony's predicted amount of PS3's for launch will be very optimistic. They said they expect to have shipped 6 million by April 2007, BUT importantly they will be ramping up production at the end of this period to 1 million units per month, which working back the way, means that by November 06, there will only be around 1 million - 1.5 million units available for launch......

saunders45

Jun 12, 2006, 01:28 PM

I like this guy's post on a very misleading piece of information that everyone seems to think about the Cell:

"On top of that 7 cores at 3.2 is gonna be blazingly hot. "

The Cell does NOT have 7 cores. SPE's do NOT equal cores. This is a common misconception. The Cell only has 1 core.

A core has it's own cache, and can act independently. An SPE doesn't have cache and is dependent upon the core. However, 6 of the SPE's can reliably be delegated tasks by the core in the PS3 (so each can handle a thread). However, the devs will have to painstakingly code for this unless they use the high-level tools provided by IBM. However, the high-level tools will deplete potential performance since it leaves them working less directly with the hardware.

Unless developers get to low-level programming with the Cell, they will never get close to their "theoretical maximums". The low-level programming is extremely difficult, which is why the high-level tools are provided. Even IBM can't meet the claims Sony makes about the Cell.

I'm not saying that the Cell won't be a capable processor, but people get the wrong idea about it way too often.

by SuicideNinja on 06/11/06 02:59 AM

Dagless

Jun 12, 2006, 01:44 PM

But it can calculate duck physics!

saunders45

Jun 12, 2006, 02:18 PM

But it can calculate duck physics!

Ha ha......:)

Haoshiro

Jun 12, 2006, 02:21 PM

The Cell does NOT have 7 cores. SPE's do NOT equal cores. This is a common misconception. The Cell only has 1 core.

Right you are, and these SPEs are specific to floating-point operations. What I think is interesting about that is that, unless I am way off base here (possible!), the PPC core is actually an Integer beast, rather then FP. So you've got this Int core with 7 FP SPEs... for some reason that sounds less then ideal.

I do wonder how this would do for alternate graphics methods, though (say ray tracing, etc). Currently I thought almost all the calculations done in games were mostly integer calcs, something SPEs are less then ideal for. *shrugs*

Just from a developer perspective, I prefer 3 x 3.2GHz general purpose cores ala 360. But perhaps Sony has some alternate idea on how to code the PS3 that contrasts standard development and would end up really giving the hardware a huge advantage... I've just not heard about such a thing...

MacRumorUser

Jun 12, 2006, 02:33 PM

Even IBM can't meet the claims Sony makes about the Cell.

Remind you of the 'emotion' engine in the ps2. :)

sk1985

Jun 12, 2006, 02:37 PM

Remind you of the 'emotion' engine in the ps2. :)
Toy Story two in real time...

Dagless

Jun 12, 2006, 02:40 PM

Just from a developer perspective, I prefer 3 x 3.2GHz general purpose cores ala 360. But perhaps Sony has some alternate idea on how to code the PS3 that contrasts standard development and would end up really giving the hardware a huge advantage... I've just not heard about such a thing...

from a developer perspective I prefer the Wii! well I will be able too once my Wii dev kit arrives. *awaits*
though I keep hearing it's the easiest machine to develop for, ever. I hope it lives up to that. I'm just a solo guy I need quick and easy development.

A next gen studio based in Manchester, who I lovingly got to speak to a while back said the PS3 is a strange new machine to code for. The Cell is powerful and all, but it's radical enough for this team to code only for the 360 for a bit. All that said - they were using one of the first dev kits. so they probably evolved a bit since then. They might even have new ones... I haven't spoke to them in a while.

milo

Jun 12, 2006, 03:02 PM

And the funniest part is, IBM fanboys STILL will insist that apple should have gone with the chip sony is using instead of going intel.

coffey7

Jun 13, 2006, 08:04 AM

Dagless

Jun 13, 2006, 08:21 AM

In a perfect world Ferretboy, you're right. but like you said, it's expensive to own all systems. I didn't buy a single console in the last generation - Cube was a gift for staying at home missing a summer holiday to look after the dog and my Xbox was a christmas present. After playing both machines the Cube really got me. I would never have bought an Xbox if I had to pay for it myself.

The huge price of the PS3 instantly pushes me away. using your theory of getting as many consoles as possible it renders the PS3 pointless, as for the exact same price you can buy (and judge) 2 other home consoles. Ditto for the PSP, for a PSP Gigapack you could buy a Wii and a DS. another 2 for 1 judgement deal. *god I sound like McDonalds.

I'm thinking about buying a 360 at some point. but only when I can name 10 games that vaguely interest me and that have received good reviews. But I have judged the 360 myself. My brother and a random mate have one. They're alright. but not pulling me yet.

Haoshiro

Jun 13, 2006, 08:37 AM

from a developer perspective I prefer the Wii! well I will be able too once my Wii dev kit arrives. *awaits*
though I keep hearing it's the easiest machine to develop for, ever. I hope it lives up to that. I'm just a solo guy I need quick and easy development.

A next gen studio based in Manchester, who I lovingly got to speak to a while back said the PS3 is a strange new machine to code for. The Cell is powerful and all, but it's radical enough for this team to code only for the 360 for a bit. All that said - they were using one of the first dev kits. so they probably evolved a bit since then. They might even have new ones... I haven't spoke to them in a while.

Well I think that is a bit misleading. I tihnk in terms of the 3 next-gen systems, Wii is easiest for developers just beginning. But this could simply be because it is so much like GameCube, so people who are already experienced on that hardware have a really easy time on Wii.

Many developers have talked about how great the 360 development support is and how XNA is improving more and more as time goes on, making development much more friendly and easy. As some one who has used Visual Studio for years I believe MS has what it takes to make a great IDE and things like XNA and DirectX are further proof of what they can do in terms of improving ease of development.

zap2

Jun 13, 2006, 11:06 AM

No it's not.

Yes it is, look at the mess the PS3 is

poppe

Jun 13, 2006, 02:15 PM

poppe

Jun 13, 2006, 02:20 PM

I think the best thing to do is buy all three systems then when one has a better game base then sell the others. I did this with the ps2,xbox,gamecube. I liked at first the ps2 then xbox and the gamecube was only around for a short while to play Mario and resident evil. It turned out I liked the xbox the best. Of course now with the price of the ps3 it will be hard to justify buying all of the systems. I'll have to wait a year after release to pick one up. Its silly to be a fanboy, You miss out on all the good games from each system.The assassins cread game for ps3 is looking good.:)

My manager bought two xbox 360's when they first came out. She got one the first night (at midnight) it was released, and the other when more was in stock.

The one she got at midnight she sold on Amazon shortly after she recieved it in her hands. She got 1500 for it. I know it sounds like a joke, but no kidding.

I'm thinking of doing this. Buying a PS3 and camping out so I get one the first night. Then selling it on amazon or ebay. I don't even want a PS3 but if I can get enough to get a new Mac (or part of one)!!!!!!

Dagless

Jun 13, 2006, 02:21 PM

Just a thought but didn't the Sony Guy say "after all it is a computer anyways"? or something around that?

Perhaps it might only be released with 2.8's for this christmas then next christmas 3.8's and for those who already have one able to buy and drop new ones in?

Or is this basically impossible?

Not impossible, and certainly now shooting themselves in the foot, but squarely in their forehead. Can you imagine it now?

"MGS4: substitute! On 3.8ghz PS3s only"

How many people are going to pay £430 for a CPU upgrade?
Ok, so many it's upgradeable. Voiding warranty and paying Sony-style over the top prices?
nah. they're going to make 1 speed of chip and stick with it. it would be suicide to release 2 models, alienating markets. there will probably be cooler and cheaper running upgrades but no speed boosts.