Apple, Sun, Ericsson Wireless Deal

[blakespot]

As detailed in and Excite.com release (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020213/D7HKQP8O2.html), it seems Apple has joined forces with Sun and Ericsson in moving forward with content delivery. To quote the article:

Apple Computer Inc., Sun Microsystems Inc. and Ericsson said Tuesday they have
teamed up to develop a system for bringing multimedia content such as movie clips to
cell phones and other wireless devices.
...
Dubbed the Ericsson Content Delivery Solution, the system will include Apple's
QuickTime streaming video application, content-distribution software from Sun and
wireless infrastructure from Ericsson. Financial terms were not disclosed.

Under the system, content providers could create video clips using QuickTime and not
have to worry about reformatting it to run on different kinds of devices, said Phil
Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of worldwide marketing. The content would be
ready for wireless-network operators to send directly to consumer devices.

A move against Microsoft and Real Networks, this technology partnership is definitely a positive step for Apple and position in the multimedia delivery market.

[spikey]

Intersting, Why Ericsson though?
I thought they were meant to be in a little financial trouble.

[Bandit]

I wonder if this will stimulate the possiblity of a PDA? You could stream QT movies to it and audio files.

[agreenster]

How many times does Steve have to say it? A million? NO APPLE PDA.

Get it?

NO APPLE PDA.

Hello? Anyone there?

NO APPLE PDA.

--------------(later, on Macrumors)

Hmm....I wonder if Apple is going to release a PDA?
(steve rolls his eyes)

___________________________

No people, all this means is that 3rd party companies will incorporate quicktime into their phones and current Palms, etc. Thats it.

Now, starting thinking--this could easily lead into handheld, wireless videophones, and 100% pure wireless web devices. THATS cooler than an Apple PDA.

[Six]

Originally posted by Bandit
I wonder if this will stimulate the possiblity of a PDA? You could stream QT movies to it and audio files.


Thats what I was thinking... But im still skeptical.. This all kinda reminds me of that movie "AntiTrust" and their synapse media delivery system.. But since its from Apple, it wont be all evil and stuff. :D

[evanmarx]

well ... if they say ericsson, they say SONY ... seems like apple and sony are getting closer ... so, quicktime on sony's clié maybe? NO APPLE PDA ...

http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com

[agreenster]

Apple and Sony together. Now THERE's a team.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by agreenster
Apple and Sony together. Now THERE's a team.

Too bad Sony's products are so crappy…
Ericsson's not, by the way.

[blakespot]

Originally posted by Unregistered


Too bad Sony's products are so crappy…
Ericsson's not, by the way.


What's your gripe with Sony's products? Which do you consider to be bad? I did opt for a Canon digital camera over a Sony after some indecision, but in general I think Sony's products are top notch.


blakespot

[TazGuido]

i just wish people would stop pretending that they know what Steve Jobs will and won't do-- ok, so he said that he would not do a pda-- does that absolutely mean that he won't?!!! come on guys, as much as I would like to make decisions for apple or better yet be in a position to do so, I am not-- I for one would like to see a new pda from apple because you know that it will be different than anything you have ever seen from anyone else-- things change and decisions change -- it could happen

[Bandit]

What if Apple redifines what a PDA is by adding other features that no other PDA has. Then they could release one, call it something other than a PDA, and Steve would still be right.

[spikey]

Some Sony prodcust are good, like the original playstation was, and they do some nice digital cameras.

And some Sony products are pools of consumer designed donkey vomit, like their speakers/most audio equipment, and playstation2.

[macplus]

Spikey's right. Sony's consumer electronics are great performers, but their build quality and longetivity leaves something to be desired. Their DV Betamax stuff looks solid, but they have some real low-end crap on the market too. Two words: Planned obsolesence.
That being said, I opted for a Canon.

[Matthé]

Originally posted by Unregistered


Too bad Sony's products are so crappy…
Ericsson's not, by the way.

what? you obviously don't know anyone with a T28s

[GPTurismo]

PS2 crappy? How sterotypical and fanboyish :D

[Unregistered]

alright, the Apple PDA issue...here is what I really believe is going to happen and soon.
1. Apple will put a 10 gig HD in the iPod.
2. Apple will, I guess, put in some sort of mini OS.
3. Apple will create multiple functions for the iPod:
a) a sub-section for iTunes
b) a sub-section for iPhoto that can do away with the need
for memory cards on digital cameras, i.e., as you take
photos you can download them into the iPod and have
virtually unlimited capacity.
c) maybe a sub-section for very limited video files using the
type of Quick Time stuff they announced yesterday.
d) a sub-section with PDA-type of capabilities like calendar
etc, plus some little mini-OS X apps.

This would blow everything else on the market into the weeds and be a perfect fit for the digital-hub concept.

Yea or nay?
SJS

[ThunderCorp]

This deal will sit on its ass as long as MPEG4-LA decides to sit on its own ass.. bottom line. Oh well.

[MacAztec]

So, if there is NO PDA, what about a PDA TYPE thing. You know, 1 inch think, 12 inch screen, it is touch sensitive. Type of thing to stream video to for businesses and so on...?

[Stalker]

MPEG-4 is part of the MMS, together with audio, images and text.

MMS is the next version of SMS, the small 160 char messages that most GSM users send to each other. SMS is a huge market with some 50 billion messages sent each month.

GSM is the digital cellphone system used in most countries (besides the US and Japan. OK, there are some operators in the US). GSM is excellent, works almost all over the world, roaming, SMS, digital communication, WAP, GPRS (always connected) etc and it is a pity that the US didn't understand that earlier. No, I don't want to start a flamewar, it is a fact, you do have crappy cell phone systems and un-fun phones in the states. No, I'm not a Taliban and me saying this is not a threat to civilization as you know it. Just deal with it and switch to GSM/UMTS if you can.

There are tons of cool and extremely powerful phones _available_ all over Europe and Asia, not shown as demos at C.E.S. or Comdex.

At the moment I'm using an Ericsson T68. It is smaller than the small Nokia phones, has beautiful design with a rubber backside, does 3-band (900, 1800 and 1900), IrDA, Bluetooth, WAP, GPRS, highspeed etc directly from the box. I also have a small wireless headset (bluetooth) and a clip-on camera, and I have the latest (beta) version of the OS containing MMS. I even have an animated Apple logo as a screensaver on the units small color screen.

MMS messages are SMIL-based and you can create them yourself with your phone. Take a picture, record something you say, write and format some text, decide in what order it should be published, and send it to any other GSM phone. If the reciever also have MMS it will be played directly in the unit, if not the user will have to visit a web page.

MPEG-4 will be _the_ format for video to be used with MMS and other new services for both GSM and the following 3G/UMTS system. Users will be able to produce content with QuickTime and send as MMS messages to these users.

It is incredible cool and will bring a world of content to phones.

[graydecember]

do ipods have some way to plug in a mic and record? I would get one if I could run around and do field recordings/interviews, esp. if I could plug in a nice digital camera and shoot a lot of uncompressed photos/video.

[Anderz]

Stalker, does you Ericsson t68 work with your mac using GPRS as well? What about the Bluetooth part, does that work - is ther any PCMCIA-cards + driver available?

[OSeXy!]

Originally posted by Unregistered
alright, the Apple PDA issue...here is what I really believe is going to happen and soon.
...
3. Apple will create multiple functions for the iPod:
a) a sub-section for iTunes
b) a sub-section for iPhoto that can do away with the need
for memory cards on digital cameras, i.e., as you take
photos you can download them into the iPod and have
virtually unlimited capacity.
c) maybe a sub-section for very limited video files using the
type of Quick Time stuff they announced yesterday.
d) a sub-section with PDA-type of capabilities like calendar
etc, plus some little mini-OS X apps.

This would blow everything else on the market into the weeds and be a perfect fit for the digital-hub concept.

Yea or nay?
SJS

This seems to make sense, in principle. The question is always going to be: do you lump functions together in one unit, or do you produce different units for each function. I like the idea of iPod becoming what you're describing, a really portable data carry-all (a hard-disk with an interface). Then I understand its name better: a generic 'pod' which docks with computers, cameras, PDAs... anything. That would justify the price and become an increasingly useful object. I'm not sure if it actually needs to BE a PDA itself.

Put a CardBus slot in the present iPod (the cards hold the OS and other filing/app features - you only buy the card if you want those features) and up the HD size...

[Stalker]

Originally posted by Anderz
Stalker, does you Ericsson t68 work with your mac using GPRS as well? What about the Bluetooth part, does that work - is ther any PCMCIA-cards + driver available?

GPRS and Mac - Yes.

I'm using a very ugly piece of software called "Mac Mobile High Speed" from a German company Nova Media.

Read more on http://www.novamedia.de/pages_e/e_mhs_mac.html but it takes an age to configure, costs 100 Euro, has to be pre-registered with your phone's IMEI-code and looks like something from a 13 year old Linux programmer. I do not recommend this solution unless you are desperate.

If you are lucky, you might be able to use the free gprs scripts made by Ross (read more and download from http://www.taniwha.org.uk/). Alas they don't work with my own network setup, but reportedly works well with Viag, Max, D1, D2, Mobicom, Omni and Orange. Don't forget to buy him a beer, should the scripts solve your problem.

Bluetooth and Mac - No.

I haven't found a driver for any of the bluetooth cards available on the market today. Hopefully Steven Jobs someday will understand how economical, small and beautiful the Bluetooth technology is and start to use it for wireless keyboard and mice for the new iMac, wireless headset for iPod as well as connecting PDAs and cellphones into the digital hub.

There are some discussions about conflicts between 802.11b and Bluetooth, but since companys working with 802.11b can't do jack about people getting Bluetooth devices, they sooner or later will have to solve these issues (if there are any).

A lot of Mac people refuse to understand that Bluetooth is a complimenting technology to 802.11b, not a competing. Bluetooth works best at 1-10 feet and a speed around 1 mbit/s - perfect for keyboards, mices, PDA syncs and wireless headsets. It is not possible to make a headset using 802.11b, unless you want to look like a Borg.

[Unregistered]

Following up again about iPod morphing into a digital "carry-all":
I think that's a great untechnical word to describe what iPod is going to become.

Seriously, the potential market of people who need a 10 gig device just for iTunes is not huge.

However, make iPod the perfect storage tool for digital photography in the field and you greatly increase the market.

Add certain PDA functions and you greatly increase the market again.

Add video capabilities...more buyers.

No I don't think the iPod will ever be billed as a PDA because by comparison todays PDA's can't hold a candle to the future iPod in terms of storage and multi-funtionality.

In the near future I believe iPod will become more like a field extention of your iMac, able to service the more of the digital hub than just iTunes. Here is my own profile:
I don't need a PDA in its current limited form...
I don't need to carry around a thousand songs...
etc. etc.
BUT, offer me a device that can do those things plus offer storage for when I'm taking digital photos, plus whatever video stuff may come, THAT I WOULD BUY!

SJS

[grrr223]

While I admit that I didn't think that Apple would ever release a PDA as we currently know them (i.e. palm, ipac, etc.) because the market is pretty cuthroat right now, I think that that unregistered guy who was simply talking about features to add to the ipod sounds pretty feasible. While I don't think we'll see the ability to record from analog sources (microphones, etc.) anytime soon simply because unless they do a damned good job (not that I'm saying they are incapable of it, just that the ipod market doesn't require it), the ability to somehow transfer DV to it or better yet just being able to dump your digital still photos onto it would be of great usefulness to many people. While the iPod may be a little on the pricey side compared to other POS usb mp3 players, it's price for storage is MUCH cheaper than say a Sony memory sticks (those things are #$@#$ expensive). I really think this would be an excellent feature. For example:

My mom just bought a Sony DV camera that also takes still photos and stores them on Sony's memory sticks. She also loves the iPod, but the $400 price tag is a little steep. I think she said she would have bought it for $300. However, she has spent I think about $150 on Sony memory sticks. If instead of buying the memory sticks (well, all of them, she'd need at least one to transfer the pics I guess), she had bought the iPod, then just think how much better off the world would be :). My mom would now have an iPod :)! Apple would have her $400 instead of Sony getting close to half, and that one device is better at performing the storage functions of the pictures than the memory sticks. I think that by adding this feature, people will have to start looking for reasons NOT to buy the iPod, it would be great.

As far as the address thing, there's some 3rd party app you can get that creates tiny .mp3 files and organizes them as albums/contacts, it looks pretty cool. If this company can do this within the confines of the current iPod OS, imagine what Apple could do by redesiging it.

CONCLUSION: My vote is for Apple adding features to the iPod. I like this idea best because I want one, and the more features it has, the more easily I can justify buying one. :)



One more thing...Lay off Sony. It is obvious they do not make the best products in every category, but they do fill in many many large profitable markets with products that people can afford. While I would never buy a pair of speakers with their name on it, thier low-end audio equipment fills a very key part of the home theater market. And trust me, I know about quality in audio, I probalby have more money in my headphone setup than at least half of you have in your stereos). While I am fully aware there are higher quality products out there, If Sony did not produce home theater receivers with DTS/DD decoding 4 years ago for $250 I would not be able to have surround sound period, they do a better job than many other companies. I don't know who you're comparing them to, but saying Sony is crap is a rather uncredible thing to say. Sorry, stupid people annoy me.

[Unregistered]

Again, about the future of iPod...

Didn't that seem like a strange name for a device just for iTunes?

The aerospace definition of "POD" is a detachable compartment on a spacecraft for carrying people or instuments.

So the name makes more sense (and Apple seels tons more) if the iPod becomes like a "detachable" device from your iMac that allows you to carry around most of the same stuff that relates to the "digital lifestyle".

SO, I'm walking around without a PDA because I've got my iPod:

* a thousand songs (best MP3 Player on the market);

* a bunch of photos either from iPhoto or from my digital
camera which I will download into iPhoto later (unique);

* my contact list, phone #s, addresses, schedule, what
ever else a PDA does (but a 1000 times bigger/better);

* stuff with video or audio that relates to the Errickson deal
that I don't really understand;

* able to use HD space to transport files from home to work
where ever else.

One device, no competitors, better at each function than any other standalone device = sell millions/convert PC users?

SJS

[Stalker]

Originally posted by Unregistered
One device, no competitors, better at each function than any other standalone device = sell millions/convert PC users?

Sorry to disappoint you all, but there are tons of those "digital wallets" out there. Have a look at http://www.archos.com/uk/products/product_500280.html as a very good example. Twice the size of an iPod but it has a 10 GB hard drive, built in color screen, can do everything you want including _recording_ and playback of MPEG-4 video. You can watch Britney dance as well as listen to her.

Besides, most people all over the world have a cell phone as priority #1 of stuff they want to carry around. They don't want to carry a second or third device as well. New phones can do MP3, they can store images, they have built in camera, they can access the web or wap, they have full set of calendar functions, reminders, to-do-lists etc. And they are as small as the iPod.

Have a look at the latest Nokia 7650 at http://www.nokia.com/phones/7650/ as a good example. Note that these phones _are not_ clumpsy PocketPC with a snap on phone, they are small and slick ordinary cellphones. The new Ericsson T66 even fits in the small fifth pocket in a pair of Lewis, have a look at http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com/T66/ or its more potent brother T68 at http://www.sonyericssonmobile.com/T68/.

Comrade Jobs is not stupid. He will stay clear of the "old" and soon to be stone dead PDA market (remember that we nerds are only a small fraction of the market and we are especially not "the rest of us").

The future is 3GPP cell phones (UMTS), always connected to the Internet, speeds up to 2 mbit/s, color screen, SMIL-compatible, MPEG-4 compatible etc. One unit that you always brings with you as a cellphone (prio one) but that will feature tons of other stuff at the same time (prio two).

Apple will bring out the tools for creating content for this market, but might decide not produce terminals. Apple will profit on Sony/Ericsson/Nokia making the terminals, much as they profited on Canon making the original Apple LaserWriter.

[Unregistered]

ok you're right, that device you linked to has some amazing function.

BUT: Apple makes iMac. Because Dell makes Dimensions does that mean there is no point to the existence of iMac?. Macs exist because they are so much superior. So also would the iPod be.
Here's how it would beat the others:

Design...size...software...reliability...ease of use...integration.

These are all the reasons the iPod should morph into the multi-functional device. Can you take the device on your link and integrate with the digital hub iSoftware in your Mac? I think not. So that sort of device, while useful, is only useful on a standalone basis. The future iPod will be part and parcel of your iMac. Like the word "pod": a "detachable compartment" of your computer.

Besides, if Apple can add the other functions, why on earth wouldn't they? They would add hardly any cost to the product but expand the market tremendously. I won't buy one just for iTunes but I will for the whole package. Would you?

A

[mac15]

I thought ericsson was going broke

[Stalker]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I won't buy one just for iTunes but I will for the whole package. Would you?

That is a very attentive and important question.

Let's face it, the MacPlus was useless without scanners, PageMaker, downloadable fonts, postscript and the LaserWriter. Don't flame me for saying this, but this is the main reasons why Apple soared in the DTP business and Atari/Amiga failed. Most users don't give a sh-t about operating systems, they want to publish something and want a solution that works.

Apple didn't package and sell any fonts, but they owned some 20% of Adobe to make sure that there were fonts to be available as well as Postscript. They did court Aldus. Apple didn't manufacture their own printers, but they made an agreement with Canon to supply LaserWriters. The customers were finally able to buy "the whole package" and the DTP era started.

I do suspect that we all should look at Apples (PDA) strategy from that view.

Apple wants to be able to offer "the whole package". You can put in a music CD and walk out with an iPod, you can connect your digital camera and give your grandma a printed photo album, you can use your DV-cam to take pictures on your kids and give your friends a DVD.

The scanner, CD, digital camera, DV-cam, printers, linotypes, superdrives, iPods etc are only the means, not the goal.

If this is correct there is no need for Apple to make their own digital camera (they did earlier when the market didn't provide any other solutions). No need for a DV-cam (they can't and wouldn't like to compete with Sony on that market anyway). No need for a PDA since they are available everywhere already. No need for a scanner since there are tons of them available. They have ditched their printing division. (Apple at one time even made their own modems as well as tape backups and external 5.25" floppy drives for the Mac.)

The reason for the iPod is to make a statement about "the whole package" because everyone understands the concept immediately. It is also to promote the FireWire and in the long run to push for more licence fees for that technology. It is also an elegant way of showing off Apple, since most MP3-players on the market has a crappy interface and are pretty useless compared to the iPod.

Apple could decide to make something else, but if so only to support "the whole package". They could decide to brand from another supplier. Most of the stuff in an iPod is made outside Apple.

The scanner, CD, digital camera, DV-cam, printers, linotypes, superdrives, iPods etc are always the means, not the goal. If a needed unit isn't available on the market, Apple will find ways to make it available.

But don't let those things distract you from Apples only goal - to sell as many Macintoshes as possible.

[graydecember]

In the most mundane sense the ipod fills the void left by the absence of floppy drives. *Few* mac users have their computers on a network! I'm a bit fed up with emailing files to myself through yahoo (max. 1.5M files only!) I have to archive and segment big stuff- what a pain- over a 56.6, but of course much the same problem with floppies. The ipod will be apple's removable media, I think.

Also, as a side note, someone mentioned converting Pc users. Apple probably will *never* breach the 7-9% market share, if that. As in "Pirates of Silicon Valley", when Jobs' character says to Gates' character "We're (apple) better than you", it obviously doesn't matter. A few years ago a heretic economist (does anyone know about this?) proposed that the competitive climate in the technology sector is far different than that traditionally conceived of as historically existing in most other markets. Usually, a product gains significance and market share due to competitive features and quality, but the primacy of MS shows that what is more important is compatibilty with an installed base/standard (positioning).
My point is (even though I obviosly don't know what I'm talking about :o) that the ways apple products are better are not important to 95% of the population. Whether something even *works* well is not important! In fact, I would go so far to say that most people just want at least whatever their neighbor has- they don't want some kind of unusual thing their neighbor doesn't have~ Macs are qualitatively better, but most people don't know about qualities of things- they need number values to indicate value (Horsepower, Mhz, #of neighbors that use it, etc.). When Mac or Linux users talk about how Wintel sucks, they talking to blanks who just don't understand what you're talking about ("well Bill gates is the richest man, so...blah blah). Pc users will not be converted, becase they don't care about what is superior and don't recognize it when they see it.

[Unregistered]

RE: the iPod as "whole package" and as a sort of extension of the iMac:

Here is my story as a brand new Mac lover:

I always admired Macs but had never even used one. Used only PCs for over 10 years. I have a wife and four kids. Everynight I come home and the first thing I hear is "Dad, can you fix the Dell?"
Something they have downloaded or whatever has crashed the PC. I'd spend hour and hours...I got to where I hated the dang thing. Besides, when it did work it was boring!

Around Dec 1 2001 I am so frustrated that I order an iMac and the free HP digital camera. I then spend most of Dec getting up to speed on how to use the Mac.

Not to sound too sentimental, but this machine has transformed part of my life. I love it. It has never crashed... more impotantly IT IS FUN!

I am your typical consumer (not a pro user) and here is what I do:

*My neighbors install a new kitchen. I use my dig cam to take pictures of the process; come home and load them into iPhoto, then order them a Book as a housewarming gift.
*Our church gets a new pastor. I take pictures, load into iPhoto, edit with PixelNHance, publish to my mac homepage. Send an announcement card to the church sec'y who sends link in email to members. They love the pictures. It took me an hour.
*My son loves iTunes and burning CDs
*My daughters use iTunes while playing games...
*iMovie is great and I am barely started using it.

The iMac would convert any casual home PC user if they could just see and try one. The iPod as an extension of my iMac for the whole digital hub would be fantastic.

So thats what I want from iPod:
iTunes, iPhotos, video, download from dig cam, file sharing, etc.

Don't get cynical. Apple is on the right track.
SJS