OS X 10.4.7, WoW and you

[csubear]

If you play WoW on an intel mac check this thread over at the world of warcraft site. It has a blizz response that states that some of the opengl improvements have been made on the new OS X update.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mac-tech-support&t=27582&p=1&tmp=1#post27582

[ich1ban]

Hmmm seems like I might have to install WoW on my macbook now, since I only have it on my PC. Thanks for the info!

[DougTheImpaler]

So Apple has completely abandoned PPC, I take it, as all improvements were for Intel-only Macs.

[XNine]

So Apple has completely abandoned PPC, I take it, as all improvements were for Intel-only Macs.

WTF are you talking about? The 10.4.7 update is for all Macs. It's a 66.5MB download from software update buddy, go get it! Jump on it! smack it! and if it's naughty... well, we have probes for that too!

[DougTheImpaler]

WTF are you talking about? The 10.4.7 update is for all Macs. It's a 66.5MB download from software update buddy, go get it! Jump on it! smack it! and if it's naughty... well, we have probes for that too!
It's 39MB for PPC and no mention of the new video drivers. I'm talking about performance updates for OpenGL. PPC is dead, long live PPC. :(

note: I'm only frowning because I haven't gotten around to getting a PPC Mac yet.

[MacRumorUser]

WTF are you talking about? The 10.4.7 update is for all Macs. It's a 66.5MB download from software update buddy, go get it! Jump on it! smack it! and if it's naughty... well, we have probes for that too!

The open Gl improvements were for intel mac only if you read the post linked ;) :D :D

[DougTheImpaler]

The open Gl improvements were for intel mac only if you read the post linked ;) :D :D
exactly!

[sk1985]

exactly!
It's PPC counterpart has been out since forever. I'm pretty confident that almost all it's bugs have been ironed out years ago. That would explain the lack of updates. Seriously though PPC users got most of the major fixes with the last update.

P.S.
It would be stupid for apple to abandon PPC user right now. We kind of out number Mactel users by the millions. In a few years that will change because PPC chips will be so dated and they'll be in lower numbers.

[XNine]

The open Gl improvements were for intel mac only if you read the post linked ;) :D :D

PFFFT! Who needs reading when you have text to speech on Windows?

Anyway, my Software Update says 66.5MB. No kidding.

[csubear]

I don't think they've abandoned PPC, i just think that the tree's are not really in-sync right now. I'm sure we will see more updates in the future that include ppc, and intel.

[Spanky Deluxe]

I don't think its about the PPC being left behind, I think its more about the Intel builds still requiring fixes! PPC OS X has been retail quality for how many years?? Intel OS X has been retail quality since January and was Beta before that. There hasn't been a new PPC machine since last year whilst there have been new Intel machines. New machines = new bugs to fix. PPC's not being left behind, its just got less bugs!

[csubear]

I don't think its about the PPC being left behind, I think its more about the Intel builds still requiring fixes! PPC OS X has been retail quality for how many years?? Intel OS X has been retail quality since January and was Beta before that. There hasn't been a new PPC machine since last year whilst there have been new Intel machines. New machines = new bugs to fix. PPC's not being left behind, its just got less bugs!

I would not say that with the 'fixes' they are introducing for WoW. From what I have gather from reading the blizzard forums, these OpenGL fixes are more like complete reworks of the opengl subsystem. It is kinda strange to see the fixes on on earch and not the other, but it can somewhat be expected. Thats not to say that these fixes won't reach the ppc build, its just that apple is placing priority on the intel builds. I'm sure bootcamp has something to do with this. Many people reported that WoW ran up to 50% faster on xp than OS X on the same hardware. I'm sure apple would like to see that gap narrow.

[rbarris]

I would not say that with the 'fixes' they are introducing for WoW. From what I have gather from reading the blizzard forums, these OpenGL fixes are more like complete reworks of the opengl subsystem. It is kinda strange to see the fixes on on earch and not the other, but it can somewhat be expected. Thats not to say that these fixes won't reach the ppc build, its just that apple is placing priority on the intel builds. I'm sure bootcamp has something to do with this. Many people reported that WoW ran up to 50% faster on xp than OS X on the same hardware. I'm sure apple would like to see that gap narrow.

The changes in 10.4.7 are rather minor from an API / coding POV. However their impact on the efficiency of the game are significant. There are more changes coming for future SU's, which we hope will raise the bar a little higher as well.

There isn't any explicit decision that I am aware of to restrict such improvements to Intel - they just were not in sync for 10.4.7. We really want to see PowerPC hardware go faster too, as it still represents a majority of the Mac WoW player base - and Apple is completely aware of that. There is no "PowerPC lockout" going on that I can see, though there is a lag at the moment. OK, fancy way of saying "be patient" - nuff said.

[patseguin]

I posted in another thread that I've been getting single digit frame rates on my Macbook. I read an article over on AppleInsider that stated Apple "forgot" to include some crucial OpenGL performance-critical files and that they would be issuing a revised update in a few days. Anyone else read this?

[csubear]

I posted in another thread that I've been getting single digit frame rates on my Macbook. I read an article over on AppleInsider that stated Apple "forgot" to include some crucial OpenGL performance-critical files and that they would be issuing a revised update in a few days. Anyone else read this?

Just download the combo updater from the apple website. Its about 260MB. That will have all the opengl updates.

[patseguin]

Just download the combo updater from the apple website. Its about 260MB. That will have all the opengl updates.

Thanks, I hope that does it. I had run 1.10 a couple times and ran around IF and it was very smooth. Getting single digit frame rates now is distressing.

If rbarris is still lurking around, why are all of the shader options disabled on WoW on my Macbook? I find it hard to believe the Intel GMA doesn't support them.

[DougTheImpaler]

If rbarris is still lurking around, why are all of the shader options disabled on WoW on my Macbook? I find it hard to believe the Intel GMA doesn't support them.

It doesn't support them in Windows; I don't know why it'd support them in OS X.

rbarris, I'm not criticizing WoW development, I'm honked at Apple for not supporting PPC...there has been speed-up after speed-up for OpenGL in OS X for Intel since its introduction; I refuse to belive that PPC is fully optimized. It's just too slow in OpenGL for that to be true.

[patseguin]

It doesn't support them in Windows; I don't know why it'd support them in OS X.

rbarris, I'm not criticizing WoW development, I'm honked at Apple for not supporting PPC...there has been speed-up after speed-up for OpenGL in OS X for Intel since its introduction; I refuse to belive that PPC is fully optimized. It's just too slow in OpenGL for that to be true.

Really? Why is that? I know it's not the best graphics processor out there but isn't there a full OpenGL driver for it that supports shaders?

[bobber205]

This thread makes me all the more anxious for my download free trial to finish.

[DougTheImpaler]

Really? Why is that? I know it's not the best graphics processor out there but isn't there a full OpenGL driver for it that supports shaders?
It doesn't support simple DirectX 7-era stuff like hardware transform or lighting. It can do what OS X and Windows Vista require for GUI acceleration and very little more.

[rbarris]

It doesn't support simple DirectX 7-era stuff like hardware transform or lighting. It can do what OS X and Windows Vista require for GUI acceleration and very little more.

It should be pointedout that the 950 has pixel shader capability. It does not have vertex shader (FP math) capability. It relies on the CPU to do any coordinate math (transformations) but the GPU itself does have a pixel shader unit.

[patseguin]

It should be pointedout that the 950 has pixel shader capability. It does not have vertex shader (FP math) capability. It relies on the CPU to do any coordinate math (transformations) but the GPU itself does have a pixel shader unit.

Very interesting indeed. I didn't buy the Macbook for gaming, but I had at least hoped for some playability. I downloaded the combo updater and got the same numbers in Moonbrook - 5-7fps. I switched to a character in IF and got numbers 18-25. This is with everything at minimum detail settings. I guess I won't be playing WoW when I go on trips. :-(

[DougTheImpaler]

Very interesting indeed. I didn't buy the Macbook for gaming, but I had at least hoped for some playability. I downloaded the combo updater and got the same numbers in Moonbrook - 5-7fps. I switched to a character in IF and got numbers 18-25. This is with everything at minimum detail settings. I guess I won't be playing WoW when I go on trips. :-(
That pretty much mirrors my experience on a Windows-based system, maybe a little slower in OS X still. Either way, it's not much fun if you can't tell what's going on.

[rbarris]

That pretty much mirrors my experience on a Windows-based system, maybe a little slower in OS X still. Either way, it's not much fun if you can't tell what's going on.

The bad news is that WoW FPS is low on GMA 950 based systems. The good news is that the majority of the overhead is presently in the driver software - 10 minutes in Shark will spell this out quite clearly.

Why is that good news ? Software can be improved, hardware usually stays about the same over its lifetime (excluding funny business like software-set overclocking). So improvements are possible, and we've been quite clear in pointing out their impact on WoW (i.e., filed Radar bugs etc).

So, I believe this situation will improve over time.

[bobber205]

What's Shark and how do you use it?