Do you trust Nintendo after the gamecube? [Archive]

Dagless

Jul 9, 2006, 08:15 PM

From my stand point I think Nintendo are winning over developers because of 2 very big, very important factors that I consider myself as a developer. They're both related too.

- Production cost. A game has a budget, if you spend decades and millions on a game that you're only going to see a fraction of returned, then why bother? You don't want to lose money. the flip side of this is the expenditure is bounced back to consumers - in the form of overpriced games.

- Ease of development. Easy=quicker dev time=better. Very simple really.

So far the Wii has proved right in those 2 points, even though the system isn't out yet. We know, at least from a number of devs and Nintendo that the Wii is easier to code for than the Gamecube, which itself was in retaliation to the N64. where developers cried at how hard it was to create games for. So they made it the easiest system, and it gets easier still with the Wii.
It's like Nintendo's whole new ideology, instead of isolating the market (360) or shrinking it (PS3), Nintendo are expanding to make things easier and better for devs and consumers.

And of course I trust the system and team that arguably brought us the best games of last gen (just opinion really) with the legendary new Metroid Prime, the game that somehow makes the sun shine - Twilight Princess. the wonderful PS1 remakes of Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid (I loved PS1). the system that brought us Resident Evil 4 and Viewtiful Joe. And of course - Smash Bros Melee. Why would I not trust the people who brought us them games?

But from the consumers point of view. The Wii is cheap and it's hoping to bring a larger, normally non-gamer market to us. Just look at the DS. I'm playing games against my parents again, my sister, even my gran spent a fair few hours playing with my Nintendogs. Frankly I don't see how anyone can be opposed to that, unless you're an elitist snob. Broader appeal= more devs= potentially better games= w00ts all round.

The key here is Nintendo are broadening and Sony are shrinking their target markets. That's it.

PS. I challenge anyone to find a console since the year dot that has done well in market that cost more than £301. go! and have fun. though I could just spoil it and mention - 3D0, CD-i, Neo Geo. Are Sony any different? All I'm seeing is similarities.

DavidLeblond

Jul 9, 2006, 08:19 PM

I thought as a system the Gamecube was perfect. It had, hands down, the best control scheme for the last gen consoles. It had, hands down, the best load times for the last gen consoles. It had a good library of first party software... a less than stellar library of third party software, but included gems such as Eternal Darkness and RE4.

You could also play gameboy games on it if you had the adapter.

And if you had the gameboy you could hook it up for some games...

What are you pissed off about? That you couldn't play DVDs and CDs on it?

dmw007

Jul 9, 2006, 08:24 PM

I thought as a system the Gamecube was perfect.

I would not go that far, but I did enjoy using my Gamecube. :)

Although, I did not enjoy using it as much as I did my Xbox.... :D

Dagless

Jul 9, 2006, 08:26 PM

A question I'd like to ask, if the OP doesn't mind.

Do you trust Sony after the PS2?

We had faulty systems galore, I remember shops offering special warranties and computer shops trying to replace PS2 lasers. Of course there was the Power Brick issue in the slimline PS2 that was a little dangerous. Do you really trust Sony to give you a Nintendo-quality system for £500? or will we have to rebuy a PS3 years down the line due to major hardware failures?
I remember buying PSP's was a gamble, hoping you had no dead pixels or screen problems. and the PS1 had laser issues too.

so, do you trust Sony with their track record of broken machines and lies to the public?

Foxglove9

Jul 9, 2006, 08:29 PM

I love my Gamecube, yeah 3rd party companies pulled out from it, but it's my favorite Nintendo system next to the NES and Nintendo DS.

I'm anxiously awaiting the Wii and, assuming I have the money, will buy one day of release. As owner of the PS1 and PS2 I will pass on the PS3 for probably a long long time (mainly because of price). I like Nintendo's idea of taking the gaming industry in a different direction with the DS and Wii systems. I haven't been this excited for games in probably a decade.

dmw007

Jul 9, 2006, 08:35 PM

so, do you trust Sony with their track record of broken machines and lies to the public?

Good question raggedjimmi! :o :)

benyaimin

Jul 9, 2006, 08:44 PM

it had, hands down, the best control scheme for the last gen consoles.

I beg to differ....

AppleGuy08

Jul 9, 2006, 08:48 PM

The ps3 is expensive and they hype it up and they also downgrade the features. Personally the 360 is great and am getting a wii since ive always liked nintendo

in the new issue of PSM, they do a full "PS3 vs 360" article. Even the cover of the magazine said "IS PS3 REALLY WORTH 600?" They made several good points. First, PS3 comes with a wireless tilt controller, 2nd, every buyer is guranteed a 60 gig HDD (600 model). Xbox charges 100 for a 20 gig HD (if you got the crap package). Soo, the 400 dollar model is the way to go. But then theres WiFi. PS3=Built in. Xbox=$100 adapter. Also, if blu-ray takes off, everyone who bought a ps3, has a player for it.

There are several more points the article makes, but i dont have the magazine infront of me to reference. I havent gotten a 360 because ive been putting all my money into my car sound system. I think ill buy one when they come out though. Itll be woth it.

socamx

Jul 9, 2006, 08:53 PM

Do I trust Nintendo after the GameCube? What kind of question is that? I loved the GameCube and every other console they ever released. This is including the Virtual Boy.. I had fun with that thing for the short while we had it.

sikkinixx

Jul 9, 2006, 08:54 PM

lol dont mention the name "sony" around here, all the Big N fanboys soil their pants to rip into Sony at any chance.

I personally think the GC was a joke. It has only a handful of good games, and its multi-platform games were simply better on other systems. But, it is cheap, has a few spectacular games and is a good party system. But I think the biggest joke of it is that it gets, what? one new game a month? There is no good support for it and if Wii is the same then it will be another GC, popular enough but a bottomfeeder.

Dagless

Jul 9, 2006, 08:54 PM

Caroline brought up a great point, though she wasn't the first.
"if you can't afford a £450 games console then you're not going to buy one" pointing out that the Sony reign in their house is about to end. I'm another walking example, I could afford a £300 console at the most. out of disposable money.

There are people out there, people who currently have PS2's (UK people know these as chavs) who will not be able to afford a PS3. These are people who can't afford computers. people who live on the dole, or on Job seekers. there are students, and children, people with mortgages, with loans, with no money.

and I bring you to the point; Sony are shrinking their market. Can nobody else see that? expensive=inaccessible. Fanboys will pawn, steal, murder for a PS3 but do you think casual gamer Joe will? A lesson in economics is needed.

steamboat26

Jul 9, 2006, 08:55 PM

The PS3 may (thats a big may) be worth $600, but that is just too much money. I would love to buy a PS3 when it comes out, but i know after a year or two, the price is gonna drop. If i do decide to get a PS3, i will wait until the price is under at least $300.

Dagless

Jul 9, 2006, 09:01 PM

Good question raggedjimmi! :o :)

I know ;) sadly it will likely go unseen and fade into the background. I'm off to bed now. pity this is going to heat up somewhat too.

bousozoku

Jul 9, 2006, 09:24 PM

After seeing the PS2 for the first time, I decided that it was not worth the price. The games on the original Playstation were okay but not spectacular. I expected more of the same on the PS2.

After the GameCube was available, I was impressed. It seemed to have a smoother way about it from graphics to the controller. Having bought a GameCube during the Metroid Prime $149.99 package deal, I'm more pleased with the quality of the games and game play than I ever would have been with the PS2.

There aren't as many games for GameCube but I don't want to peruse a bunch of junk to get to the few good games that exist on any platform.

I expect the Wii to be incredibly good with only the initial price to disappoint me.

AppleGuy08

Jul 9, 2006, 09:40 PM

mkaake

Jul 9, 2006, 09:47 PM

I trust them.

:)

The 'cube is the first console that I've bought during it's generation. I haven't regretted it, but then, I don't play too often (a few hours during the week, a few on the weekend), and I like the games that are available for it (Metroid Prime, Timesplitters, Various Mario games, etc.).

On the other hand, I enjoy certain games on the other consoles, but I wouldn't spend money to buy them. They're consoles I play when I'm visiting someone else's house... nothing more. Once they're no longer current gen, if I can pick them up cheap (and functional...) along with the 1 or 2 games I enjoy on them, I'll get them and add them to my collection.

Re: Sony / PS3... I'm one of the people who gets on Sony when they do stupid things... that doesn't mean I'm anti-sony, it doesn't mean I'm a fanboy... it means that I don't let my love/hate for a *game console* affect my judgement as to a companies actions. The PS3 will succeed, but the price point they've set *will* exclude *many* people from participating. They keep toting how it's a great price for what you get... that's great. And it is. But not everyone *wants* to have "what you get". People buy consoles because they want to play games. You don't need blu-ray to play a game... you don't need HD-DVD to play games. Saying that a console is worth it's price because it's cheaper than anything else that has functionality you don't care about is kind of a weak argument.

And again. I don't hate sony. But there are a lot of people who would love to own the PS3 that just plain won't be able to afford it - period.

As for the 360 (although this whole thread was about trusting nintendo), I'm not a personal fan, but I have no problem with people who have / enjoy it... I fully expect people to love it (just like people will love the PS3). It's price is a little high (though I don't remember what it's like now after the price cut), but it'll succeed... because there aren't any other next-gen offerings available yet, and it has the installed user base. On top of that, it'll get a lot of would-be PS3 owners who just can't afford to get the PS3.

But back to trusting Nintendo... they didn't have strong 3rd party on the Cube... and that's what brought it a lot of it's complaints. That would really bother me about the Wii, but they've come out loudly exclaiming that it was a fault, and they're working hard to fix that. Looking at the list of launch titles, and 3rd parties that have promised, and are working on games? I think they've got the problem nabbed in the butt. Not to mention they'll be about the only ones that you'll be able to get indy developer games from... I think that'll be a huge boon in the future...

Anyway, I'm just ranting at this point, and I should shut up now....

ddrueckhammer

Jul 9, 2006, 09:55 PM

Well if the Wii is as good as the DS Lite than I trust them. (I have 8 great DS games and counting!) I haven't had this much fun with a console in years. (Much less a handheld) At 200 it will be easy to give it a try compared to 400-600 for a 360 or PS3. Also, many don't have HDTVs to utilize the graphics of the PS3 or 360. The games will be cheaper and it will be easier to get your girlfriend, Sister, Mom or other non-gamer friends to play it. Hopefully the control system meets the hype. Finally, Nintendos are built like tanks compared to Sony or Microsoft's offerings. Unless something changes I see the sales rankings ending with the 360 in first, Wii in second, and PS3 in third. (and the Wii winning on revenue)

After getting my DS lite I took an inventory of my favorite games and, while many were on PC and various consoles, I was surprised that many were on the original NES. Nintendo still makes great games...

seenew

Jul 9, 2006, 10:01 PM

Ferraris are definitely worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, but could you afford one? No. That brings us to the PS3. Even IF it is worth the $600, most people might want one, but can't afford it. Plus, that's just $600 for the console. A game or two plus tax brings it closer to $750.

Buy a computer instead, it'll do more.

2nyRiggz

Jul 9, 2006, 10:23 PM

I trust no company....Nintendo has its flaws as well as Sony and Microsoft. Sony for the past couple of years done well in the console arena no matter if the console had problems....the games was better on the PS2 over both the xbox and GC....

PS2 is one of the greatest consoles out there (I never had one problem with my 7 year old console)

When I look at the Wii I see another generation of playing but I don't think it will stand the test(it will do good in its first two years).....Just like how people think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is not needed...I think the wiimote will grow old and lag once more behind sony and microsoft(I would like to see different but...)

I really couldn't stand my PS1 and N64...Thought they were the worst consoles ever but hey its only my opinion.

Bless

HGW

Jul 9, 2006, 10:24 PM

the use of non rechargable batterys for the controller could ruin the situation

coffey7

Jul 9, 2006, 10:31 PM

Thanks for all the input. I was a little upset about the game cube. I didn't seem to buy to many games for it. I just liked the big titles, and of course resident evil. When a game came out for all the systems I bought it for the xbox. I do currently own all the systems(including xbox 360). I am just going to wait and see how the Wii does with getting the games out. I really am not a fanboy at all. I have no interest in any of the companys. I just want to play good games. I just hope Nintendo can come up with some new and fresh games. It looks like they might be able to pull this off. Even though I bought all the systems last time I might not be able to do this again. Its getting a little to pricey.I already bought a hd tv and macbook. I spent this year like a drunken sailor.
Sony did make lots of people mad with the problems with the ps2's. I remember seeing walls of broken ps2's in game stores(waiting to be fixed). If i'm spending $600 on a system it better work for at least 3 years.

dmw007

Jul 9, 2006, 10:34 PM

I trust no company....

Not even Apple 2nyRiggz?! :eek: ;) :D

sk1985

Jul 9, 2006, 10:38 PM

I actually could see 3rd party developers liking the Wii. Games will super cheap to make on that system, so even a modestly successful title could pull in respectable revenue. A lot of expensive overhead cost could be cut by making games on the Wii (i.e. smaller devo teams and shorter development time).

2nyRiggz

Jul 9, 2006, 10:40 PM

Not even Apple 2nyRiggz?! :eek: ;) :D

Wheres my core tripple macbook pro?......well I'll give more credit to apple...my ibook is still rolling along with my ipods...Might mouse is a different story;) :)

Bless

dmw007

Jul 9, 2006, 10:51 PM

Wheres my core tripple macbook pro?......well I'll give more credit to apple...my ibook is still rolling along with my ipods...

Glad to hear that you are still cool with apple. :cool: :D

Might mouse is a different story;) :)

Bless

That is an okay exception 2nyRiggz. :)

GFLPraxis

Jul 9, 2006, 11:02 PM

Everyone is dumping sony to get a Wii.I really don't understand why? Is it price only? I was really mad when I bought a gamecube and it had really bad support from 3rd party developers. I really don't think sony is going to fall off the map. How many great games will the Wii have? I will have to wait and see. I just hope Nintendo is not just pulling everyones chains. They better not pull what they did with the gamecube.

Frankly, I think the GameCube had the best first party games of any of the consoles, they just had bad third party support and missed online play. I still played GameCube more than my PS2. It had the best load times, good games, and IMHO the best controller (Wavebird).

The Wii seems to be getting tons of third party support this time around, plus Nintendo's usual spectacular first party support. I don't buy tons of games, so quality is more important than quantity for me.

People are dumping Sony for the Wii because of the combination of price and that awesome controller and the back library.

However, the Wii is a lot closer in strategy to the DS than to the GameCube. The less powerful, innovative, easy to develop for system. And after the DS? I trust Nintendo.

GFLPraxis

Jul 9, 2006, 11:05 PM

in the new issue of PSM, they do a full "PS3 vs 360" article. Even the cover of the magazine said "IS PS3 REALLY WORTH 600?" They made several good points. First, PS3 comes with a wireless tilt controller, 2nd, every buyer is guranteed a 60 gig HDD (600 model). Xbox charges 100 for a 20 gig HD (if you got the crap package). Soo, the 400 dollar model is the way to go. But then theres WiFi. PS3=Built in. Xbox=$100 adapter. Also, if blu-ray takes off, everyone who bought a ps3, has a player for it.

There are several more points the article makes, but i dont have the magazine infront of me to reference. I havent gotten a 360 because ive been putting all my money into my car sound system. I think ill buy one when they come out though. Itll be woth it.

A $500 PS3 is the same thing as a $400 XBox 360 + Blu-ray, basicly.

steamboat26

Jul 9, 2006, 11:27 PM

I thought that microsoft was backing toshiba and HD-DVD, so they will have an option for an HD-DVD drive, not blu ray.

Jovian9

Jul 9, 2006, 11:27 PM

I have enjoyed my Gamecube and every other Nintendo system I have had so I definitely trust Nintendo and look forward to buying a Wii. I had high hopes for the PS3 and actually was going to buy one near launch, but after E3, the pricing, the rip-off-of-a-$500 system, the controllers (worst controllers ever on any system are Sony's)......there is no way I am buying one. I am not a Sony-hater either. I have plenty of Sony stuff around my home.....some of which cost more than the PS3's will cost....so I actually do like Sony.....but am disgusted with what they are doing to the gaming market. My wife bought me an Xbox 360 for my birthday......need to get some 360 games for it but so far it seems like a very nice system. My white Nintendo Wii will look really nice next to the 360 :) The Xbox 360 has the great graphics system covered for me and Nintendo has me excited about gaming again...and I've never been let down by any system of theirs before.....so I trust them.....no need for a PS3 now.

DarkNetworks

Jul 9, 2006, 11:36 PM

I could afford a £300 console at the most.

same here...i'll pay no more than that for a console...:rolleyes:
how much is the wii going to cost?

XNine

Jul 9, 2006, 11:41 PM

To answer the OP's original question: No. Nintendo has forever lost my support because of the GC. It was basically an N64 with better graphics. No support for growing industry standards like internet play, DVD's and other media. I wouldn't even purchase a Wii if MGS4 was exclusive to the system. Couple that with bad 3rd party support, nah. I'll take my chances with MS and Sony.

seenew

Jul 9, 2006, 11:50 PM

DarkNetworks: $200-250

GFLPraxis: Yeah and take the "tilt sensing control" out, too, since Wii can do that, ten-fold.

2nyRiggz and dmw007: my Mighty Mouse works perfectly, I like it a lot..

HGW: so just buy rechargable AAs if it takes them...?

ChrisBrightwell

Jul 9, 2006, 11:54 PM

They better not pull what they did with the gamecube.I still don't understand the animosity against the GameCube.

The anti-Mario camp just bugs me. It's like they don't give half the games out there a chance because they don't want to be caught playing a "kiddy" game. Whatever.

Nintendo makes games for gamers. Sony and Nintendo make consumer electronics that are capable of playing games. Who do you think will survive in the gaming industry?

bobber205

Jul 9, 2006, 11:58 PM

Do I trust Nintendo?

I trust them with my "gaming life".

If Nintendo ever goes out of business, I will forever give up console gaming.

bousozoku

Jul 10, 2006, 12:13 AM

Lollypop

Jul 10, 2006, 12:51 AM

Im all for quality not quantity, I have about 6 games for my GC, and I love the total experience to bits, dont play a lot of games, so I dont really mind that there isnt so much options, for me its about the quality of the time I spend playing games, and the GC has done a excellent job at that. I hope to get the Wii, nice sellection of new games, support for my "old" GC games and some of the really old games I can download and all at a decent price, whats not to like?

DarkNetworks

Jul 10, 2006, 12:53 AM

DarkNetworks: $200-250

wow u serious? meaning somewhere around £135? the DS Lite costs around £ 100...if that's the price, i'm seriously thinking of waiting for it...:rolleyes:

Tennis on Wii would be GODDDD!!! xD

GFLPraxis

Jul 10, 2006, 01:03 AM

wow u serious? meaning somewhere around £135? the DS Lite costs around £ 100...if that's the price, i'm seriously thinking of waiting for it...:rolleyes:

Tennis on Wii would be GODDDD!!! xD

Nintendo said it will be less than $250 for sure, they're determining the final pricing and what addons to include. They've also noted that every other Nintendo system has launched for $200.

chairguru22

Jul 10, 2006, 01:33 AM

third party support always comes up as a complaint and it really doesnt make sense. you get a nintendo console to play nintendo games. if you wanted to play 3rd party games you shouldnt get a nintendo.

simple right? well what if you only have money for one console? you ask yourself what games you want to play and weigh them in your decision.

there are tons of nintendo games that justify the purchase of the console alone. for the GC, there was Zelda: WW, Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime 1 & 2, Animal Crossing, Resident Evil 4, countless other hit 1st party titles, and of course, Super Smash Bros. If you're saying to yourself right now, well I dont like any of these games, then why the hell would you get a nintendo console?

that ends my rant.

bobber205

Jul 10, 2006, 01:35 AM

here's the main reason I'm buying a Wii:

Super Smash Bros ONLINE!

Yay!

Counterfit

Jul 10, 2006, 02:19 AM

No support for growing industry standards like internet play, DVD's and other media.
First off, how the hell is internet play an industry standard? You can't play against people on other systems, and just how many games on the PS2 used it as well?
Secondly, you WILL be taking a chance with Sony this time around.

sam10685

Jul 10, 2006, 02:29 AM

the use of non rechargable batterys for the controller could ruin the situation

i seriously doubt nintendo would do that to us. mainly because Iwata likes ease-of-use.

ChrisBrightwell

Jul 10, 2006, 03:09 AM

the use of non rechargable batterys for the controller could ruin the situationAre you kidding?

I've changed the batteries in my primary WaveBird three times since they were released. The other three are on their second set.

greatdevourer

Jul 10, 2006, 03:14 AM

This generation Sony are pushing the 3rd party away. A lot of devs are saying that they're either not going to bother or they're going to do their 1 launch title then leave (like wassisname who does MGS). To expensive to develop for, combined with being too expensive to buy which means too few people will get it which means that all but the big names will be struggling to make ends meet, let alone make a profit and stay in business

andy89

Jul 10, 2006, 03:32 AM

Bollocks to the wii, i wanna play good games.
You know the PS3 is going to go down in price in 6 months anyway.

Nintendo might have been cool when I was 8, but it aint now

DarkNetworks

Jul 10, 2006, 05:27 AM

Nintendo said it will be less than $250 for sure, they're determining the final pricing and what addons to include. They've also noted that every other Nintendo system has launched for $200.

that's good news...now i'm reconsidering...:rolleyes:

MacRumorUser

Jul 10, 2006, 05:28 AM

Back to the question - Do You Trust Nintendo After The Gamecube?

Why not they've always supported the cube and have released great titles to this day - and it will be going out on the swan song that is 'Zelda Twilight Princess' ?

Surely the question should be, "do you trust 3rd Party Developers after the gamecube ? ".

In that case - not so much. Developers are a very fickle breed, they go where the money is.

You only have to look at games that were claimed to be PS3 exclusives prior to the price announcement and subsequent confusion Ken 'bumhole' Kutagari has created (Shocking price, BTO machine, Computer not console). Is it any surprise that PS3 exclusives are now becoming multiplatform. Developers & Publishers know that confusion and buyer apathy is a dangerous thing and want to release software that they can be assured as much as possible will bring them in a profit.

IF (and I think it will) the Wii is a great success I can genuinly see developers sticking with it. Cheaper to develop titles for it than either the PS3 or Xbox360 - cheaper development kits - has to carry some favor.

However at the end of the day the Wii's support and success relies SOLELY on the consumer. If we buy it in our droves, then yes - if not, then if developer abandon the platform it is the consumers fault.

Dagless

Jul 10, 2006, 05:42 AM

Bollocks to the wii, i wanna play good games.
You know the PS3 is going to go down in price in 6 months anyway.

Nintendo might have been cool when I was 8, but it aint now

So how old are you now? 9?

So the price is going to drop to something reasonable in 6 months? um. has there ever been a console price drop within 6 months? sounds like bad business to me. 12 months possible, but to drop the price in any significant way would annoy and possibly deter original PS3 buyers. Imagine buying a £500 console (3 games) only for it to drop to £250 in the same month. wouldn't you be slightly annoyed? so what if the price drop is smaller? say £50? won't make a damn bit of difference until it's way below the £300 mark. History tells you that. (http://curmudgeongamer.com/2006/05/history-of-console-prices-or-500-aint.html)

mrgreen4242

Jul 10, 2006, 08:36 AM

Everyone is dumping sony to get a Wii.I really don't understand why? Is it price only? I was really mad when I bought a gamecube and it had really bad support from 3rd party developers. I really don't think sony is going to fall off the map. How many great games will the Wii have? I will have to wait and see. I just hope Nintendo is not just pulling everyones chains. They better not pull what they did with the gamecube.

You're working under the assumption that everyone else was disappointed with the GC. That's definately not the case. I was very happy with it, but I'm not the kind of person who buys a ton of games or plays them all the time. So the GCN, which was cheap and small, and had the most comfortable and usable controller, was perfectly fine for me, even of I only played Nintendo (1st and 2nd party) games (Zelda, Mario Kart/Party/RPG, Metroid, Smash Bros., etc). I did get a couple 3rd party games, and was pretty pleased with them. There was NHL 2004 that I liked just fine, Eternal Darkness was interesting, at least, Super Monkey Ball has a fun party mode (not wild about the main game, though), and then there's a hadfull of 3rd party games that I haven't played yet, but will at some point: Viewtiful Joe, Alien Homonid, Resident Evil 4 off the top of my head.

Point is while there wasn't 100's and 100's of 3rd party games, there were several REALLY GOOD ones ON TOP OF the EXCELLENT 1st/2nd party games. Enough that I have NEVER felt like there wasn't some new game out there that could go get if I wanted something different/new/whatever.

XNine

Jul 10, 2006, 08:46 AM

third party support always comes up as a complaint and it really doesnt make sense. you get a nintendo console to play nintendo games. if you wanted to play 3rd party games you shouldnt get a nintendo.

Then tell me why the NES through the N64 had great 3rd party support? Lots of devs left the N64 for the Playstation & Dreamcast consoles. Some companies left those consoles for the Xbox (like Tecmo). People don't buy Nintendo consoles just for Nintendo produced games.

Dagless

Jul 10, 2006, 09:32 AM

Gotta agree with the running "quality vs. quantity" posts here. I don't spend too much on games, and I don't have time to siv through the mountain of games on PS2 trying to find something decent. I mean this gen definitely took most money from me, I currently have 17 Gamecube games. N64 days I think I purchased about 8. NES? Probably had about 5. Give me 5 excellent games and I'll buy the system. Don't give me 10 mediocre. I want Prime, Twilight Princess. I want godlike games. games that AAA titles wish to be.

though I think the Wii is going to change this for me. as a huge fan of the underdogs I'll probably buy loads of Wii Connect/Virtual Console games, and all these new games, pretty much everything I saw at E3 I want for the Wii. Really just because "It looks fun".

GFLPraxis

Jul 10, 2006, 12:36 PM

Bollocks to the wii, i wanna play good games.
You know the PS3 is going to go down in price in 6 months anyway.

Nintendo might have been cool when I was 8, but it aint now

If you make your purchases based on what is "cool", I pity you.

Mike Teezie

Jul 10, 2006, 03:08 PM

Hell yes I trust Nintendo. I own all three consoles, and the Gamecube is my favorite. I can't wait for the Wii. Don't expect to hear me ranting and raving about why other systems suck, or why the games you like are stupid.

I'll get a Wii because I love the first party games, and the fact the Nintendo is emphasizing a philosophy that I'm much more interested in - creativity. Yes yes, I play Halo, MGS, Resident Evil, and all the other big titles, and have a jolly good time doing it. But my favorite games are the ones that are super creative - take Katamari Damacy for instance. I loved that game, thought it was brilliant. I'm currently playing my first Zelda game ever (i know, i know!), WindWaker, and am totally blown away.

Sony and MS focused more on the super-hyper-mega graphics approach when they designed their hardware, which is great. I love big beautiful looking games as much as the next chap, but it's not what I get my gaming enjoyment from. Nintendo is going where I would go if I were making consoles, so the choice in natural.

I'll probably get an Xbox 360 by the end of this year, but I've pretty much decided against the PS3. $600 is quite a chunk of money, and that's all it comes down to for me. Shame, because I think it will be a neat machine. I hope the system does well.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 10, 2006, 03:23 PM

Hell yes I trust Nintendo. I own all three consoles, and the Gamecube is my favorite.

Um there are 4 Nintendo Consoles not inlcuding Wii....NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Gamecube...

BTW...I don't know if there will be huge third-party support but I saw that Call of Duty 3 and Final Fantasy Chronicles are confirmed for Wii...Nintendo is doing everything they can to get third-party developers...I read that the dev kit will only be $2000...How many games do they have to sell to make that back if it is just a port? One thing is for sure, there will be many great first party titles in the Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc franchises...

I have had most of the major consoles since my Atari 2600 and many of my favorite games were for Nintendo consoles. If you are a gamer over 18 I would think you can appreciate Nintendo because of the great titles they have put out over the years. They game up the graphics game but still put out reasonanbly priced game consoles that have fun games. There is a place for both concepts and both are fun for different reasons....

kinesin

Jul 10, 2006, 03:23 PM

If you make your purchases based on what is "cool", I pity you.

You realise you're posting this on macrumors right?? It's our reason for been here :D

Dagless

Jul 10, 2006, 03:42 PM

Um there are 4 Nintendo Consoles not inlcuding Wii....NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Gamecube...

I think he means all 3 current/last (depending on if you have a 360) gen consoles.

and hey! poster above. I buy Apple because it's better than the rest not because it's cool :p hell go onto any major non-OS specific forum and shout "Apple is cool!" and see what happens.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 10, 2006, 04:00 PM

I think he means all 3 current/last (depending on if you have a 360) gen consoles.

and hey! poster above. I buy Apple because it's better than the rest not because it's cool :p hell go onto any major non-OS specific forum and shout "Apple is cool!" and see what happens.

Ahh yeah sorry, I thought he was talking about all Nintendo consoles haha...

TrenchMouth

Jul 10, 2006, 04:01 PM

Bollocks to the wii, i wanna play good games.
You know the PS3 is going to go down in price in 6 months anyway.

Nintendo might have been cool when I was 8, but it aint now

I take it that bitterness is left over from Italy winning, no? :D

I enjoyed the GCN. I picked one up just to get the remake of Resident Evil some 3-4 years ago. The first party games are great, and every now and then you get a good third party game.

I like the idea of the Wii. I think it is a turn for the better. I think the PS3 will be great. It has more CPU power that I would know what to do with, and BlueRay is def the better format, but I think it will take some time before we really see the advantage of the PS3 shine through. I will pick one of those up a few years down the line when it gets a little more affordable, but i will get a Wii on launch.

GFLPraxis

Jul 10, 2006, 05:27 PM

You realise you're posting this on macrumors right?? It's our reason for been here :D

Really? Because generally, everyone I know tells me that "Macs suck", and they are uncool where I live. Only iPods are cool. Here, anyway. :p

GFLPraxis

Jul 10, 2006, 05:30 PM

BTW...I don't know if there will be huge third-party support but I saw that Call of Duty 3 and Final Fantasy Chronicles are confirmed for Wii...

Call of Duty 3 is coming up as a launch title in GameStop's computers. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest Swords are both Wii launch titles, and the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest franchises are HUGE in Japan.

jdechko

Jul 10, 2006, 06:53 PM

Absolutely, I trust Nintendo. I'd buy a Wii if only 3 games ever came out on the Wii: Twilight Princess, Prime 3 and Smash Bros. Why? Because it's the quality of games, not the quantity. Now I know that there'll be some great games that I'll pick up as well (I'm a fan of the Splinter Cell Series, and I'll probably pick up a sports game or 2), but I only own a few gamecube games, but they're all top-notch games.

And as for the GC just being an N64 with better graphics... Don't get me started. The 360 is just a more powerful XBox, and the PS3 is just a faster PS2 which is a faster PS1. I'll admit it. The GC didn't bring a whole lot of new stuff to the gaming scene. In fact of the N64, GC, Xbox, 360, PS1 and PS2, I'd say that the most innovative systems were the N64 (3d graphics and analog control) and the PS1 (FMV cut-scenes, higher quality graphics and sound).

But the up-and-coming innovations seem to be dominated by the Wii with the control scheme and new types of gameplay, whereas the 360 and PS3 seem to be more of the same.

Core Trio

Jul 10, 2006, 07:22 PM

Ive never had a EDIT:*Problem with* PS2 and I bought it when i was in 8th grade (launch). I still play it quite often (along with our xbox360).

The reason I will be getting a PS3 eventually...Metal Gear Solid 4.:)

bousozoku

Jul 10, 2006, 07:57 PM

You realise you're posting this on macrumors right?? It's our reason for been here :D

It may be your reason for posting on MacRumors, but I'm here because I like using great products that work well--and the GameCube is one of those.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 10, 2006, 07:58 PM

Call of Duty 3 is coming up as a launch title in GameStop's computers. Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and Dragon Quest Swords are both Wii launch titles, and the Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest franchises are HUGE in Japan.

Final Fantasy is a huge franchise here. VI and VII are considered among the best games of all time...

madmax_2069

Jul 10, 2006, 09:11 PM

i think if nintindo play's there cards right the Wii will be a great system for one due to its price, and what it will be capable of doing, im going to buy a Wii, screw the PS3 and 360, the PS3 is way to high in price, the 360 is a flawed system

Yvan256

Jul 10, 2006, 10:02 PM

The Gamecube is currently Nintendo's best system, period. Yes, there's a lack of 3rd party support, but to be honest I don't want 500 crappy games each year for my system. If I can buy 5 or 6 good games a year, I'm already overloaded.

The Gamecube games look far better than most PS2 games, the load times on the Gamecube are very short, the controller is nearly perfect (except for that Z button). The hardware is pretty powerful if the game is coded properly.

IMHO, the question should be "Do you trust Nintendo after the N64?" because frankly the limited room on carts was too much for some developpers, the very low-resolution of its 3D gave me headaches and I really didn't like the controller. In fact, apart from the Virtual Boy, the N64 is the only Nintendo console I've never owned. I'm not saying the PS1's 3D was great (awful buggy 3D) but at least the resolution was a bit better (the Dreamcast, on the other hand, was SEGA's best-ever system - too bad it flopped, IMO its games look better than 99.999% of the PS2 games currently available).

The Wii will have Metroid Prime 3 and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Those two games alone are enough to make me buy a system. Because no matter how powerful or super-high-resolution the Xbox360 and PS3 may be, if they don't have games that interest me, they're useless.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 10, 2006, 10:14 PM

(the Dreamcast, on the other hand, was SEGA's best-ever system - too bad it flopped, IMO its games look better than 99.999% of the PS2 games currently available).

Eh too bad they didn't release Shining Force 4 for it....I've always wanted to get a Saturn just for SF3. My roomate in college had it and it is the best tactical RPG game of all time. No matter what fans of FF Tactics will tell you. (I have played them both). Too bad Shining Force Neo looks like a Diablo style gameplay...

coffey7

Jul 10, 2006, 10:20 PM

I still don't understand the animosity against the GameCube.

The anti-Mario camp just bugs me. It's like they don't give half the games out there a chance because they don't want to be caught playing a "kiddy" game. Whatever.

Nintendo makes games for gamers. Sony and Nintendo make consumer electronics that are capable of playing games. Who do you think will survive in the gaming industry?

I liked Super mario sunshine, Zelda was good but the camera drove me nuts,Metroid was really cool looking but the controls, I just didn't like them. Resident evil 1 remake was great, resident evil Zero was great, resident evil 4 great, Eternal darkness very good. The remake of metal gear was good. Thats about all the games I cared to play. they didn't have any 1st person shooters that I cared for. I just thought the xbox killed with the 1st person shooters. all the games looked better and played better on the xbox. The lack of RPG's on gamecube was the kiss of death. the final fantasy game Crystal Cronicles was a joke. thats the number 1 reason(great rpgs) why the ps2 kicked so much butt. I really don't care if a game is a kiddy game or not. If its good I will play it. I could careless what anyone thinks about me. I had zero interest in pokemon games. My game cube sat around so long waiting for a new game to come out I forgot I had it.
The better question would have been do you trust the Wii to have better 3rd party support than the gamecube had?

ddrueckhammer

Jul 10, 2006, 11:17 PM

The better question would have been do you trust the Wii to have better 3rd party support than the gamecube had?

The quick answer is: I think it will....Probably not as good as the 360 but possibly better than PS3 because of production costs associated with the cell processor...All Nintendo has to do is get a couple of decent FPS games (Call of Duty 3 is already a launch title I think), a decent racing game, and a decent RPG besides Zelda (they should pay Square to port the next Final Fantasy if they have to). I'm not a huge Meroid fan but Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Red Steel, & SSBB all look pretty cool...It will have Opera for the browser, the virtual console and play normal DVDs all for $200-$250. If there is another reason besides RPGs, and blueray to get a PS3 I might consider it but I haven't heard one yet.

GFLPraxis

Jul 11, 2006, 01:15 AM

Final Fantasy is a huge franchise here. VI and VII are considered among the best games of all time...

Yeah, but compared to Japan? Final Fantasy XII sold like 2 million in the first week, more than any of the other top selling games sold in a YEAR.

seenew

Jul 11, 2006, 01:51 AM

Yeah, but compared to Japan? Final Fantasy XII sold like 2 million in the first week, more than any of the other top selling games sold in a YEAR.

Not really related, but an interesting stat, I think I read it in EGM a while back: Zelda: WW was the most pre-ordered game of all time with more than 650,000 pre-orders... O_O

CrackedButter

Jul 11, 2006, 03:32 AM

"All hail Nintendo, all glory to Nintendo"

Aside from the futurama reference, I'm serious. The last console I owned was the Super Nintendo and have wanted to get something recently that fits my needs and as soon as I can afford it, I'm buying a DS lite. Never cared for Sony or MS.

I'm old enough to remember nearly the all the old consoles that didn't make it when they charged to much for the base system. When I was younger I so wanted a Neo Geo but wasn't prepared to pay the price even though the system rocked, the Neo Geo is still expensive on ebay today!

I'm sure people especially younger people will think the same of the PS3, they'll want it but instead go for something cheaper like a Nintendo or the Xbox. In that order as well :).

Dagless

Jul 11, 2006, 07:22 AM

Whoa!

he lack of RPG's on gamecube was the kiss of death.

So the Cube didn't have many RPG's, it DID have Tales of Symphonia (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/review/561316.html). Which has been regarded as the FF7 of this generation. It was even ported to the PS2, though in Japan only. It's a freakin almighty game. Also Skies of Arcadia. Which I heard nothing but praise from my girlfriend. and of course the only decent Action RPG - Zelda with it's climaxing sequel coming out very soon. Now thems the only RPG's I've played. Baten Kaitos was supposed to be very good too.

Again bringing up the whole quantity/quality argument. Would I rather have a handful of consistently high scoring, highly rated games or FFX-2 or any other drab RPG incarnations? Well personally I want another Golden Sun, IMO the best RPG that has ever graced earth.

seenew; I think that's right. especially in the UK. Preordering got you the special Zelda bonus disk. it got a lot of preorders here. no more repeating Ocarina of Time.
HOLY! Just imagined how mental it's gonna be when Twilight Princess is released! Where on EARTH can I preorder :eek:

ictiosapiens

Jul 11, 2006, 07:38 AM

Appart from the obviously amazing games that Nintendo publishes is the lengh of the games themselves, Nintendo gives you great value, as they give you 30+ hours of gameplay on each, and this is Nintendo's doing. An excellent example of this is Kameo for 360... When Rare was developing for Nintendo, their games were Nintendo quality, again, giving you weeks of gameplay(eg. Battletoads, Donkey kong country, Donkey Kong 64...) as soon as they were bought by MS, you can see the end result(Kameo), a Nintendo like game, only 10- hours of gameplay... Of course, if you can divide a really good game of 30+ hours into a 3 short 10 hour semi-good games and charge the price 3 times, why not? and that's MS for you... If you have a look at Kameo's delvelopment history, before MS took over, when it was heading for the cube, you will see an awesome game with loads more creatures to use and worlds to explore, true Nintendo Style... I guess I'll see the flying pterodactyl on Kameo 2...

But that's just another example of what you are missing when you use the other consoles...

As for third party games, you can keep them, the only third party dev, that I used to like was Rare, and they are gone... Maybe capcom, and they still develop for Nintendo, so I'm cool... LOL...

I'm sure you'll have examples of short nintendo games, but that's not the norm...Eg. Minish cap, this was half a Zelda game, I still enjoyed it though and hope it was an exception more than a new strategy...

Haoshiro

Jul 11, 2006, 08:50 AM

I loved (and still love) my GameCube.

I agree with a previous poster that it was nearly flawless as a system. It did miss out on a lot of great software, but it also had some excellent stuff as well, imho. In fact the quantity of games I wanted for GameCube exceeded any other system.

My Xbox and Halo got the most play time initially (by far) but the older Halo got the more I played the GameCube. I am still playing it now and really enjoying it. Trying to beat Viewtiful Joe and just picked up BG&E as well as Mario Kart: DD.

So yeah, I definitely trust Nintendo.

I really don't think any of the games that came to the other systems (PS2/Xbox) could not have been done on the GameCube just fine, and in some instances much better (PS2).

coffey7

Jul 12, 2006, 04:02 PM

gloss

Jul 12, 2006, 04:21 PM

Also Skies of Arcadia. Which I heard nothing but praise from my girlfriend.

A fantastic game, but technically a Dreamcast port.

MacRumorUser

Jul 12, 2006, 04:34 PM

A dreamcast port but with lots of cube extras.

Then there's Phantasy Star online

Baten Kaitos is very good indeed.

Paper Mario is an RPG

Pokemon XD : Gate of Darkness too

BoyBach

Jul 12, 2006, 04:41 PM

A fantastic game, but technically a Dreamcast port.

I loved this game on my Dreamcast (but then I loved my Dreamcast :D )

Why would someone not trust Nintendo after the Gamecube? Did I miss something?

The Gamecube was a great machine with some fantastic games released for it (Resident Evil, Mario, Zelda, Harvest Moon, Animal Crossing, Metroid) and it still has the ultimate "swan-song" to come, with the new Zelda game at the end of the year.

Dagless

Jul 12, 2006, 04:42 PM

No, you see what Seenew means is the Cube had only 1 Square RPG game. We all know nobody else makes RPG's

Dagless

Jul 12, 2006, 04:49 PM

I never get sick of playing halo or grand theft auto.
All the Wii has to do to win me over is have a great must have 1st person shooter, a wide open action rpg or a grand theft auto game and a action horror game like silent hill or resident evil. I saw that resident evil 5 will go to the ps3 and 360, does this mean that the Wii will not get it? I know the Mario, Zelda, and other in house games will be great but they need a Grand theft auto style game and a big rpg like final fantasy. I'm sorry but the rpgs on the gamecube were not my cup of tea.

I doubt there will be a GTA style game, as any game similar will be instantly written off as a bad clone. Even though GTA itself is a horribly made game, still surprises me the BETA testers let that one out.

I like how you really pigeonhole all the RPG's on the Cube as "not your cup of tea". I bet you haven't even played half the RPG's on the system. they had some poo-poos (Dark Kingdom, I think it was called) but they had 10/10 super high rated games like Tales of Symphonia and co.

Wide open action RPG? um... Twilight Princess? For Cube AND Wii ;)

personally I got sick of Halo quickly. theres so little strategy involved. so little anything really. no running, limited sets of weapons/enemies, limited set of any in game creativity. Now GTA is a little more creative, but soooo buggy and just unplayable because of it in my books.

BoyBach

Jul 12, 2006, 04:51 PM

IMHO, the question should be "Do you trust Nintendo after the N64?" because frankly the limited room on carts was too much for some developpers, the very low-resolution of its 3D gave me headaches and I really didn't like the controller. In fact, apart from the Virtual Boy, the N64 is the only Nintendo console I've never owned.

Yvan256, if this is the case then you really missed some of the finest games to ever be released on a Nintendo console: Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye. Sublime!

Haoshiro

Jul 12, 2006, 05:26 PM

There is a Fire Emblem game on GameCube, I haven't picked it up yet but this franchise is excellent!

personally I got sick of Halo quickly. theres so little strategy involved. so little anything really. no running, limited sets of weapons/enemies, limited set of any in game creativity.

I actually find this comment funny, only because I played Halo for so long because of the better "strategic" gameplay. Not in the sense of Ghost Recon, etc. but in the strategy involved to be a very good player. Similar to those that say Dead or Alive is a button mashing game with no strategy, yet even though it is easy to pick up, you still see players that are amazing and simply cannot be touched. I played DoA2 and 3 so much I was almost unstoppable, because I knew how to play and knew the intricate details, etc.

Same for Halo, I've always said that people who think it is too simple or has little strategy are people that simply aren't good at it, people that would die by my gun and think I must be cheating for how quickly they get slaughtered! :D ;)

But I do agree we won't be seeing any GTA or Halo-like games on Wii, at least not for quite some time. Nintendo's emphasis is on more accessible games, a FPS might fit, but a GTA would not... imho.

CANEHDN

Jul 12, 2006, 05:35 PM

Get the Wii if you fancy games made for 10 year olds. The 360 and PS3 at least have games more suited for adults.

Dagless

Jul 12, 2006, 05:38 PM

Dagless

Jul 12, 2006, 05:40 PM

Get the Wii if you fancy games made for 10 year olds. The 360 and PS3 at least have games more suited for adults.

But little Canehdn, you sound like 8 years old so you fall into the stereotype.

Haoshiro

Jul 12, 2006, 06:39 PM

Oh aye Halo definitely has more strategy than any other FPS, but it's a forced strategy. no running, little combination effects, only 2 guns at one time. It limits the player so the only thing he/she can do is come up with a playing strategy. then again most the FPS's I've played has some form of strategy building (HL2 has the jumpers who spasm about all over the screen evading shots).

definitely the most strategic game in it's genre, but a genre that doesn't seem to have much strategy anyways.

Now, UT99 with it's Runes and other play powerups/powerdowns was strategy filled. Planning and picking which ones you're going to need, which weapons compliment each one etc.

Problem is that in most other FPS games I've played that had a much larger selection of weapons (and/or number allowed to be held) is that almost every player (even the good ones) pretty much stuck with their single "preferred" gun. And to make matters worse most of the games had at least one gun that pretty much topped them all and it was mostly about who got it and kept it the longest... all the options wasted because of poor balance.

Whereas in Halo, the good players usually used various combinations. They ruined this in Halo 2, but in Halo 1 you wanted a plasma gun for depleting shields and a marine gun for killing someone once the shields were gone. I just felt that, while there were less guns and you could only carry two, the balance was better and guns complimented each other better. Even the "big gun" rocket launcher was balanced by having very little ammo. Plus always having grenades available made it integral to the gameplay.

mrgreen4242

Jul 12, 2006, 09:12 PM

Get the Wii if you fancy games made for 10 year olds. The 360 and PS3 at least have games more suited for adults.

Wii (or really most Nintendo products) appeal to the pre-teen set and the over 25 set. Either way you're only concerned about how much fun and value the product gives you, not what your friends or the mass media want you to think is cool.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 12, 2006, 11:17 PM

Wii (or really most Nintendo products) appeal to the pre-teen set and the over 25 set. Either way you're only concerned about how much fun and value the product gives you, not what your friends or the mass media want you to think is cool.

Man that makes me feel old. I am 25 and the Wii definately appeals to me. Everyone I know my age grew up on Nintendo consoles. Maybe it is just nostalgia but Mario and Zelda games are some of the best games out there in my opinion and definately not intended for just children. (The Mario/Zelda franchises are challaging to me still...)

Sure, it is fun to play FPS games like Halo but they don't really have much personality. Actually, both Goldeneye and Perfect Dark are better games in that respect to me.

Nintendo could once again be the top console with Wii but they need to do a couple of things...

1. Get a good online/multiplayer FPS like Goldeneye or Perfect Dark only with online play.
2. Get better racing games. There is no Gran Turismo for Nintendo. There should be.
3. Work with Square to get a major Final Fantasy release. (Even if it is a port from PS3) The other RPGs mentioned are great but none of them have the nostalgia or selling power of the Final Fantasy brand. Although a remake of Shining Force 3 might be almost as good...
4. Make sure that most (if not all) of the classic titles for their platforms are available from the VC.

I personally don't think the Wii is that underpowered compared to the competition. The PS3s power remains to be seen but a 360 that isn't hooked up to an HDTV with the correct cables isn't anywhere near as impressive as one that is. The Wii doesn't have HD capabilities but most people don't have HDTVs so that is acceptable for this generation at least. Resident Evil 4 pretty much shows that the GC wasn't very underpowered and getting titles like CoD3 is already a huge step forward from the GC. GTA is fun and all but it isn't necessary for a platform to thrive. (Especially since they can't have anymore hidden nudity ;) )

Dagless

Jul 13, 2006, 05:58 AM

Re the Gamecube power bit. Nintendo say that no game has ever reached 100% of the Cubes powers, not even Twilight Princess or Resident Evil 4 - 2 of the best looking games this gen. Madness how they never pushed it, I suppose even before the Wii Nintendo were hailing graphics as the unimportant factor in gaming and perhaps the Cube's sacrifice to that stand shows how serious they are about gameplay.

jdechko

Jul 13, 2006, 09:53 AM

I agree. I'll be 24 in a few weeks, and I've practically grown up with Nintendo + Mario + Zelda (Never was really into the Metroid Series before Prime). I like playing FPS games, but since the huge craze with HL/CS/UT, Halo seems like more of the same. That's not saying that I don't like to just run-'n-gun on occasion, but the strategy/patience that's required for Zelda seems like its up my alley.

And ddrueckhammer, I agree with your points. Nintendo already has some first-class titles, but I think they need to have some advances in some (existing) titles such as an online Goldeneye (or how about Time Splitters 4 online) and I'd say a realistic racing game. I think MarioKart is a great racing franchise that levels the playing field (somewhat) with the addition of weapons/power-ups. But while that's fun, there are still a lot of people who enjoy GranTurismo/PGR for their realism. I'm not a huge fan of FF or traditional turn-based RPG's. I bought FF:CC for the Gamecube, and while I liked some of the aspects, it seemed way too repetitive. At least (or so it seemed) the older FF games (VII, VIII were the one's that I've had the most exposure to) had more of a linear plot to them. I just couldn't stick around for more than about 5-6 years in FF:CC before I got totally bored with it.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 11:52 AM

Dagless

Jul 13, 2006, 12:07 PM

The only reason why I say that getting a Final Fantasy on Wii would be good is that it is at least a 50% Nintendo franchise. I-VI were all for Nintendo and the Final Fantasy games being exclusive to Sony is a big selling point for them...Personally, I like turn-based RPGs like Fire Emblem but Final Fantasy is a staple franchise that would sell Nintendos. It's too bad they messed up the port of Metal Gear for the GC.

FFIII for DS is going to be a huge seller. It may even overshadow Zelda: PH.

I'm lost to why people say this, how and where did they mess up Metal Gear on the GC? They took the first game, added better graphics and set "et voila". Oh, and they added in a Mario and Yoshi doll in the background of Otakons lab. the game is brilliant, both the PS1 and GC games are near perfect. Even got very high rankings on Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/cube/metalgearsolidthetwinsnakes?q=twin%20snakes).

agreed on the FF3 front. As a long time Zelda player and a new comer to Final Fantasy I gotta say from the trailers I've seen so far I'd prefer FF3.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 12:31 PM

I think you are right actually it wasn't as bad as all that. They did change the music which I am not a fan of. The problem with remakes of classic games is that we have high expectations. They did a good job with this game but I don't think a great job.

The other thing that made me biased against it is that I played MGS2 right before I played Twin Snakes. MGS2 is a GREAT game...I guess I was just disappointed as this could have been one of the best shooter for GC (up there with Resident Evil 4) but when I played it I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be.

gloss

Jul 13, 2006, 12:32 PM

Get the Wii if you fancy games made for the purpose of having a good time. The 360 and PS3 at least have games more suited for self-conscious Matrix-worshipping leather fetish enthusiasts.

Fixed.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 12:36 PM

gloss...gloss...gloss....

you know that is flamebait don't you?

Maybe not as bad as the original statement though....

Haoshiro

Jul 13, 2006, 12:46 PM

gloss

Jul 13, 2006, 01:06 PM

gloss...gloss...gloss....

you know that is flamebait don't you?

Maybe not as bad as the original statement though....

I knowwwww, but that's half the fun.

Honestly, the PS3 looks nice, but for my money the Wii looks incredibly fun, keeping in mind that most of my console gaming these days occurs in a group setting.

XNine

Jul 13, 2006, 01:20 PM

I'm lost to why people say this, how and where did they mess up Metal Gear on the GC? They took the first game, added better graphics and set "et voila". Oh, and they added in a Mario and Yoshi doll in the background of Otakons lab. the game is brilliant, both the PS1 and GC games are near perfect. Even got very high rankings on

Because the controls were pure ****, the cut scenes that they re-did were pure **** (Ninja kicking a two-ton concrete slab across the room, upside down no less), and no one other than nintendo geeks give a **** about Yoshi or Mario? It has nothing on the feel of the original MGS. Sorry, but it doesn't. The GC's controller is not meant metal gear's needs (and neither is the xbox's, for that matter).

As for your opinions on Halo.... No running? Funny, cos I can see/feel the difference between crouching, walking, and running in the game. Only two guns at a time.... Well, what the **** do you expect when you only have two hands?! His dick isn't going to carry the third.

I think a lot of your complaints are ludicrous. Not everyone likes or even cares about Nintendo, you know. There ARE other systems and other games that people enjoy.

whooleytoo

Jul 13, 2006, 01:23 PM

personally I got sick of Halo quickly. theres so little strategy involved. so little anything really. no running, limited sets of weapons/enemies, limited set of any in game creativity.

<gasp!> In olden times, you'd be tied to a pole and burnt for saying less! ;)

I loved Halo, but admittedly only on the higher difficulty settings. On the two most difficult settings just a few hits will kill you, so you can't just rush in and blast everything, you need to choose your enemies.

The weapons are limited (both in the number you can carry, the amount of ammunition you're given, and in the power - no "BFG 3000" here!), and this will dictate when and how you engage the baddies.

The AI at this level is (IMO) exceptional. You can't just hide behind a tree and wait for the Covenant to charge at you, they'll take cover too and force you to make the first move; you have to entice them out of cover first.

Plus, the fact that there are multiple 'sides' in the conflict (Marines, Covenant, Flood, Sentinels) adds even more variety to the gameplay. Do you try and sneak through while they're fighting each other? Or wait for it to finish and pick off the survivors? Or take sides and start sniping, but which side do you take?

It is a bit linear, (in one part of the game in particular, no prizes for guessing), but overall it doesn't restrict gameplay much. The outdoor levels are generally a sequence of large open areas with chokepoints (gates/doors/bridges) you need to reach. As these areas are so big, you have a fair degree of strategy in how you cross them, and even more when you use different means - an area will play completely differently depending on whether you traverse it on foot, by Warthog or Banshee.

But, as I said, I think Halo only comes into its own on the highest two difficulty lessons, I too found it boring on the easier ones.

Now GTA is a little more creative, but soooo buggy and just unplayable because of it in my books.

Is GTA really unplayable buggy? I thought San Andreas was very, very poor on the Xbox; but otherwise I didn't find it that buggy. What were the issues you experienced?

Dagless

Jul 13, 2006, 01:51 PM

Is GTA really unplayable buggy? I thought San Andreas was very, very poor on the Xbox; but otherwise I didn't find it that buggy. What were the issues you experienced?

The most noticeable and crippling bug was the texture loading issue. walls became invisible and cars/people would just appear out of nowhere, inches from the car. I had to dump the ISO to the HDD to help this problem, though the problem did persist but to a lesser extent.

cars vanishing was a huge bug too. You'd follow a car you wanted, turn around and it would have gone. player motion was bad, this wasn't a bug. it was just bad. it felt like a PS1 game, felt archaic.
God knows what category this falls in but in Vice City I was driving a motorbike around the airport then I suddenly fell from the sky. like I hit some teleport thing or something. another time I fell "under" the world map. some cop car (twice this) got me stuck inbetween a wall and I vanished into the adjacent building.

As for the Twin Snakes control issues... what issues? Maybe I played Twin Snakes before the original, but the controls felt so natural.
C stick- camera
L button- items (digital click to equip/remove)
R button- weapons (digital click to equip/remove)
A button- use weapon
B button- punch/knock
X- crouch
Y- use environment (hang, climb etc)
z- First person/top view switch
plus with the Analogue stick being the main control on the Cube, along with the grooved directions. I dunno. I found it so much easy instead of using the uncharacteristic Dual Shock controller. *shrugs*

Edit: I like that my Halo comments are being jumped on. Like what Oonizuka said "There ARE other systems and other games that people enjoy.". I liked Halo 1, it was a nice game. but I didn't find it the FPS saviour of the world, I found it to be another American style FPS (1 guy, who is, incidentally American though alongside soldiers from other countries, can somehow stop armies etc etc). which lacked diversity, in game creativity (no sandbox style features), UBER repetitive gameplay to the point of boredom -everything past the Flood and Library comes to mind. with the strategy being nothing more than limiting number of held weapons and increasing the amount of enemies spawned in an area, usually using one of the 5 or so enemies in the game.

... There's running in Halo?! I need to find this run button. from what I've played it felt like HL2 on walk-only.

bobber205

Jul 13, 2006, 01:53 PM

All those things are true, but it's still considered one of the "best games" of all time.
lol

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 01:57 PM

Wow Onizuka! Now that is flamebait. Seriously, I don't know what you have against Nintendo and their Mario/Yoshi/Zelda franchises. Anyone who grew up in the late 80's/early 90's had and loved their Nintendos and Segas. Just because a game has cartoonish graphics doesn't mean that it is for kids and furthermore it doesn't mean that it is an easy game. Actually, Nintendo probably has broader appeal than the other systems so I don't see how your arguement about it being relegated to Nintendorks stands up....

Also, as we were discussing earlier, the GC is powerful enough to play games like MGS and Resident Evil 4. Nintendo is trying to get more third-party games for people like you by lowering development costs and makeing it easier to develop for the Wii. For example, CoD3 is going to be a launch title. I do think that MGS for GC wasn't as good as it could have been but it isn't anywhere near as bad as you portray it to be. The data from metacritic supports this. The only thing I will say that most will agree with is that the PS3 will be overpriced at first. Otherwise it will probably be a great gaming console. That doesn't take away from the fact that the Wii most likely will be too.

As far as FPS games go, I like Halo but it feels bland....There are other games with more interesting characters/settings. This is personal opinion so I'm sure there are many who would disagree with this though.

Dunepilot

Jul 13, 2006, 02:12 PM

As for the Twin Snakes control issues... what issues? Maybe I played Twin Snakes before the original, but the controls felt so natural.
C stick- camera
L button- items (digital click to equip/remove)
R button- weapons (digital click to equip/remove)
A button- use weapon
B button- punch/knock
X- crouch
Y- use environment (hang, climb etc)
z- First person/top view switch
plus with the Analogue stick being the main control on the Cube, along with the grooved directions. I dunno. I found it so much easy instead of using the uncharacteristic Dual Shock controller. *shrugs*

I have only spent a small amount of time trying to play the MGS remake on my gamecube but it wasn't half as intuitive as the original playstation version that I used to play on my Lombard Powerbook (using Virtual Gamestation and a playstation-style USB controller)

Edit: I like that my Halo comments are being jumped on. Like what Oonizuka said "There ARE other systems and other games that people enjoy.". I liked Halo 1, it was a nice game. but I didn't find it the FPS saviour of the world, I found it to be another American style FPS (1 guy, who is, incidentally American though alongside soldiers from other countries, can somehow stop armies etc etc). which lacked diversity, in game creativity (no sandbox style features), UBER repetitive gameplay to the point of boredom -everything past the Flood and Library comes to mind. with the strategy being nothing more than limiting number of held weapons and increasing the amount of enemies spawned in an area, usually using one of the 5 or so enemies in the game.

I agree with this - fun-wise I wasn't remotely as into the game as I've been into the unreal tournament games (or some of their excellent variants - Tactical Ops and Strike Force when I was a student 5 years ago). C'mon, bear in mind that Halo was being developed as the same people behind the Marathon series - it could have been so much better.

One point that hasn't been discussed much here is the presence of decent beat-em-ups on the Gamecube. These are the games I return to the most for multiplayer - Soul Calibur II is very good and Fight Night Round 2 also gets a lot of use on my gamecube when I have friends around.

In terms of multiplayer games, what the gamecube does miss is titles like Guitar Hero, SingStar and Buzz. These genuinely-fun games on the PS2 get a hell of a lot of hours of play at a household of several friends of mine. I think Nintendo should be encouraging 3rd party developers to bring these party-centric games to the Wii.

XNine

Jul 13, 2006, 02:18 PM

It wasn't flaimbate, it was serious. Did I call him any names? No. But this whole thread is nothing but the glorification of nintendo and the defication of any other platform or game that isn't included with it. I'm the biggest fan of the old Nintendo Systems and games. But give me a break.

jdechko

Jul 13, 2006, 02:25 PM

In terms of multiplayer games, what the gamecube does miss is titles like Guitar Hero, SingStar and Buzz. These genuinely-fun games on the PS2 get a hell of a lot of hours of play at a household of several friends of mine. I think Nintendo should be encouraging 3rd party developers to bring these party-centric games to the Wii.

I would assume that party-style games will be major on the Wii with the new controller. On the other hand, though, Nintendo has several good "party" games in that they're not necessarily long games, but they're really only fun when you :eek: have several people over to your own house. (SSB, Mario Kart, all the Mario Sports Titles--Strikers, Tennis, Baseball, Golf, etc-- Mario DDR, Mario Party and the like). As fun as these games are, unfortunately, 99% of the world gives nintendo crap about their party games because they see them all as Mario games rather than party/sports/whatever games that just use Nintendo Characters.

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 02:25 PM

...and no one other than nintendo geeks give a **** about Yoshi or Mario?.

Most game critics would probably disagree as Super Mario 3, World, 64, and Yoshi's Island routinely appear on top games of all time lists.

I was only halfway serious about the flamebait comment sorry.

I'm glad you didn't say anything about Zelda though because OoT is routinely picked as the best console game ever over FFVII and MGS. Here is a link for support:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_video_games_that_have_been_considered_the_greatest_ever

The one bad thing about Nintendo is that they do overuse Mario but for the most part Mario games are excellent.

jdechko

Jul 13, 2006, 02:27 PM

...this whole thread is nothing but the glorification of nintendo and the defication of any other platform or game that isn't included with it. I'm the biggest fan of the old Nintendo Systems and games. But give me a break.

This whole thread started out of a lack of faith in Nintendo and it's ability to produce a good system and good 3rd party game development. We're simply answering the call.

I'm glad you didn't say anything about Zelda though because OoT is routinely picked as the best console game ever over FFVII and MGS.

And in any case, any "real" (and I use the term loosely) gamer who respects the pasttime of gaming should include all of the top games. IE: Pac-Man has pretty crappy graphics, and not a lot of variety in gameplay, but it's one of the first massively played games. It helped lay the foundation for the future of gaming. I don't think any "real" (again, loosely) gamer would crap on Pac-Man, lest he be smacked. Kinda like "Respect your elders."

Edited to make more sense

ddrueckhammer

Jul 13, 2006, 02:34 PM

And in any case, any "real" (and I use the term loosely) gamer who respects the pasttime of gaming should respect the history of gaming, including all of the top games. IE: Pac-Man has pretty crappy graphics, and not a lot of variety in gameplay, but it's one of the first massively played games. It helped lay the foundation for the future of gaming. I don't think any "real" (again, loosely) gamer would crap on Pac-Man, lest he be smacked. Kinda like "Respect your elders."

Yeah I agree. I loved my Atari as a kid. I recently sat down and looked at all the game I have ever played on any system and how much I enjoyed them and the NES had more titles than any other. I would love to have one of those sit-down arcade games with Pacman and Galaga or whatever it was.

Haoshiro

Jul 13, 2006, 06:01 PM

As for the Twin Snakes control issues... what issues? Maybe I played Twin Snakes before the original, but the controls felt so natural.

I think possibly people simply have "rose coloured glasses" because of how much they enjoyed the original game, and if they played it a lot then the controls being different at all would seem very strange, not refreshing.

In general I think the controls of almost every 3D game on the original playstation was very poor. Especially before the dual shock was standardized, causing so many games even post-DS to be designed to work with the digital-only gamepad.

Tomb Raider 1, Tenchu, etc etc... all suffer from terrible "PlayStation" control. I was (and am) a huge Tenchu fan, but man were the controls terrible! I often wished the PS1 games I liked had been originally N64 games, which didn't seem to have a problem with 3D game controls...

coffey7

Jul 13, 2006, 08:14 PM

I think its dumb in the metal gear game you can't even move when your in first person mode. At least in halo you can move and shoot at the same time. I love when people tell me how the metal gear creater is a student of combat and the military. First of all when you cock the pistol once you don't have to keep doing it. Everytime snake enters a room he cocks the gun. Why? For the tension(it causes) of hearing the gun cock? I hate in movies the way people always cock the rifles every 5 seconds. Why would you want your enemys to hear you do this. Also, when you have a flash surpressor on the end of your rifle you don't get a 6 foot blast of flame from the end of your rifle. I own a Colt ar-15(semi-auto copy of m-16a2 rifle) and it has a Flash hider. When you shoot it at night you can't see a flash.You can't really see anything.Just a very small amount of sparks that move away from the barrel to the sides and a puff of smoke. The sound surpressor or silencer as everyone calls it does not work anything close to what the movies and games portray. If you have a HK usp .45 with a military surpressor it only holds back about .20 decibles. Its 160 decibles to start with and 140 is still so loud it will hurt your ears and wake the whole town. My Ar15 with a surpressor would make it sound like a .22 rim fire rifle. Which is still very loud(120 decibles) and will hurt your ears. Sorry, I'm just sick of people saying how the metal gear games are so life like and realistic.

Dagless

Jul 13, 2006, 08:42 PM

Haoshiro

Jul 13, 2006, 09:15 PM

I was scared to hear about all that gun stuff, but then I got more scared that you actually own a gun.

But at the end of the day- this is no FPS, this is MGS. I never used the first person mode in TS, cept to making look at the ceiling or whatever.and it's pretty smart in the lockers too, like if you move too fast then you'll make noise and the guards will see you. I liked that. such a precise game. not realistic in the slightest (which begs the question - why are they trying to make MGS4 with realistic graphics?), i mean the whole GrayFox thing with the concrete slab and how he holds up Metal Gears leg at the end... it's just a typical action game. how many people do you know can get shot countless times but are okay from pressing a shoulder button in real life?

Well he is in the USA and everyone knows that everyone in the USA is a hot-blooded redneck! Heck, I myself own a shotgun and a compound bow.

As for life-like games, developers and designers usually talk about how it just wouldn't be fun anymore. And to an extent that is true, like if an RPG made you drink a bunch of water everyday to prevent death... but personally I've always liked realistic action, gun fire, etc. My favorite game mode in Halo was 50% health, no shields, and Magnums only... basically 1 or 2 hits and you are dead.

Games are just trying to be too much like movies, so they tend to always be over the top. I think there is room for both style games, arcade action and sim action... I've just not played a REALLY good sim action game.

michaelltd

Jul 13, 2006, 09:16 PM

Honestly though, I kinda cringe when I see the action stunts in Twin Snakes because it seems a little different.. but I still defend them by saying that this is a retelling of a story about a legend and in such a story, one would portray this legendary soldier as one with amazing abilities.

As for Twin Snakes control scheme, I actually liked it. They felt pretty good.

However, Twin Snakes would have to be my least favorite in the Solid series. Metal Gear Solid 2 was my all-time favorite, followed closely by Metal Gear Solid 3, with Twin Snakes being last.

Still, I owe Twin Snakes for getting me into the series.

applekid

Jul 13, 2006, 09:36 PM

Just to throw in my 2¢ without reading everybody else's posts...

I just bought a used GameCube, with a GameBoy Player, a WaveBird, a wired controller, Metroid Prime 2, Paper Mario, Smash Bros., Zelda, and Mario Kart. Gaming hasn't been all that interesting to me lately (probably because I'm getting old). I enjoy a good triple-A title whether its on the console or computer, but that buzz never really lasts like it used to. Anyways, I've been enjoying my summer vacation with my GameCube and some Windows gaming thanks to Boot Camp. Since March, I was playing WoW, only for that to get boring at level 52. Then, I was gaming on the Windows side which was okay. Then I got my GameCube and everything changed.

I haven't touched WoW in over a week now. I've been playing my GameCube non-stop! I'm almost done beating Paper Mario (which is going to be one of my most favorite RPGs ever. I never really liked Final Fantasy, but I liked Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, and Super Mario RPG; RPGs that were just different from FF). I beat a few dungeons in Zelda. About 15% of the way through Metroid Prime (starting to get into it). Unlocked everything in Mario Kart and beating level 7 computers in Smash Bros. (the used memory card I got had a save for that that had everything).

I'll give Nintendo another chance. On the PS2, I've been enjoying Guitar Hero when I play it at a local gaming place in our neighborhood. Not really wanting to drop $200 for it and a PS2, but it's been fun. There are a few other PS2 games I want and more widely available, but I definitely need to find a good used deal like I did with the GameCube ($100 for the console, GB Player, the controllers, a memory card, Mario Kart, and Zelda). On the PS3, I'm only looking forward to Metal Gear Solid 4 because I love that series. I think I'll wait until the following generation's console before buying a PS3 and MGS4 though with a $599 price tag at the low-end. It was cool playing Halo 2 on four separate consoles and TVs on 360's, but I haven't seen that 360 game that makes me want buy the machine. And the Wii has a more immersive way of gaming, but it's something I need to see and play myself to seal the deal. This really will be my last ride with Nintendo if things don't work out. They got the portables down pretty well, but for consoles, they got a fight ahead of them.

The thing about the Wii that has been definitely interested is the Virtual Console and backwards compatibility. My GameCube can go bye-bye, and I can get a nice Wii instead. And the Virtual Console is tantalizing. All of those games from the NES to N64 days... *drool* As long as it has good third-party support and nearly a full library and some minor enhancements (like maybe a way to play on the DS, save states, and low low low prices as in sub-$5, thought sub-$10 could be a stretch), I'll buy for the VC alone.

stunna

Jul 13, 2006, 10:50 PM

in the new issue of PSM, they do a full "PS3 vs 360" article. Even the cover of the magazine said "IS PS3 REALLY WORTH 600?" They made several good points. First, PS3 comes with a wireless tilt controller, 2nd, every buyer is guranteed a 60 gig HDD (600 model). Xbox charges 100 for a 20 gig HD (if you got the crap package). Soo, the 400 dollar model is the way to go. But then theres WiFi. PS3=Built in. Xbox=$100 adapter. Also, if blu-ray takes off, everyone who bought a ps3, has a player for it.

There are several more points the article makes, but i dont have the magazine infront of me to reference. I havent gotten a 360 because ive been putting all my money into my car sound system. I think ill buy one when they come out though. Itll be woth it.

Having different addons may be better for some people because they may not want or need blue tooth or the bigger harddrives

GFLPraxis

Jul 14, 2006, 01:09 AM

About 15% of the way through Metroid Prime (starting to get into it).

Metroid Prime is a game you just have to devote time for.

I rented it and absolutely hated it for the first hour, and stopped playing.

Later, I went on a camping trip and set up the GameCube and a TV in the tent (hehe) with a friend. He forced me to play his copy of Metroid Prime. After an hour straight of playing I was completely hooked on the game.

The less you play it, the less you enjoy it. It's weird how it works, but you have to learn the maps and environments before you really get the full picture.

Dunepilot

Jul 14, 2006, 03:48 AM

Metroid Prime is a game you just have to devote time for.

I rented it and absolutely hated it for the first hour, and stopped playing.

Later, I went on a camping trip and set up the GameCube and a TV in the tent (hehe) with a friend. He forced me to play his copy of Metroid Prime. After an hour straight of playing I was completely hooked on the game.

The less you play it, the less you enjoy it. It's weird how it works, but you have to learn the maps and environments before you really get the full picture.

Funny you should say that - I bought MP2 and played it for a bit on my gamecube (say, an hour or so), but I just couldn't figure out what the fuss was all about. Maybe I'll give it another go.

BTW, does anyone on here have one of those lovely Panasonic Gamecubes?

Yvan256

Jul 14, 2006, 08:28 AM

Yvan256, if this is the case then you really missed some of the finest games to ever be released on a Nintendo console: Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Goldeneye. Sublime!

Well, Mario 64 is available for the DS although I did play it on an N64 in a store for like 15 minutes... I got a bit bored though, because to me a Mario game has to be in 2D. I really like New Super Mario Bros., BTW. Zelda: Ocarina of Time, well I've got that one on a GC bonus disc (just haven't played it yet).

As for Goldeneye, well, I got bored of this type of games after Wolfeinstein 3D, Doom, Quake, Unreal, Doom 2, Quake2, Unreal 2003, Quake 3, etc... I think a lot of people were hyped into Goldeneye and Halo because it was their first "real first person shooter", i.e. they don't have computers, so they were impressed by these games like we were back in the days of Quake 1.

Dagless

Jul 14, 2006, 08:49 AM

Oh, I got bored of Metroid too. I was still on the ship in Metroid Prime 1 and it was so dull. didn't understand it at first. but then I saw Ridley (be known this is the first Metroid game I played after loving the western style dragon since childhood) and I let out a tear. then got stranded on the Talon planet, totally lost. but it slowly hit me, about 50% of the way in I just didn't want the game to end.

Then Prime 2. It was a huge "meh" until about 75% in, until I understood that it played a little more linear than Prime 1, that it seemed more level based. Lack of areas let me down, and the final area with all it's digital-ness didn't feel right in a Metroid game especially since up to that point it's been all natural environments.

Though from what I've seen in 3 they have a good environment style. Sort of run down technology etc. It's all about the environments for me :)

DarkNetworks

Jul 14, 2006, 08:56 AM

Oh, I got bored of Metroid too.

is Metroid on the DS boring too?

Dagless

Jul 14, 2006, 09:02 AM

is Metroid on the DS boring too?

oh, nonono. I meant the start was boring but after an hour or so, when you start to get into it the game really comes to life like no other.
the DS single player is just a very linear, cut down version of the console games, but it's still impressive that it's there on the DS. the real guts is the multiplayer.

whooleytoo

Jul 14, 2006, 09:09 AM

The most noticeable and crippling bug was the texture loading issue. walls became invisible and cars/people would just appear out of nowhere, inches from the car. I had to dump the ISO to the HDD to help this problem, though the problem did persist but to a lesser extent.

Ok, I had this problem, though not quite as bad as you described, on the Xbox, never experienced it on the PS2 (yes, I bought all 3 games for both consoles :eek: ). Which platform where you playing on?

Edit: I like that my Halo comments are being jumped on. Like what Oonizuka said "There ARE other systems and other games that people enjoy.". I liked Halo 1, it was a nice game. but I didn't find it the FPS saviour of the world, I found it to be another American style FPS (1 guy, who is, incidentally American though alongside soldiers from other countries, can somehow stop armies etc etc). which lacked diversity, in game creativity (no sandbox style features), UBER repetitive gameplay to the point of boredom -everything past the Flood and Library comes to mind. with the strategy being nothing more than limiting number of held weapons and increasing the amount of enemies spawned in an area, usually using one of the 5 or so enemies in the game.

... There's running in Halo?! I need to find this run button. from what I've played it felt like HL2 on walk-only.

I didn't mean it to sound like I was jumping all over you for your Halo comments, just offering an alternate view.

I don't think Halo was revolutionary either, but it didn't need to be. I just really enjoyed the storyline, atmosphere, and humour of the game; combined with a very good AI at the higher difficulty levels.

And I actually like the fact that in Halo you're not zooming around the place like a hamster on steroids as in other similar games, it's more realistic.

smwatson

Jul 14, 2006, 09:46 AM

paddy

Jul 14, 2006, 09:56 AM

Yvan256

Jul 14, 2006, 10:56 AM

I liked the GC, but no DVD support and few 3rd party developers commited, it was never going to succeed. Also, it never really had a killer app or a unique feature, but now the Wii has its controller, things are looking up. And lets be honest, the PS3 is boring to look at and the controller looks like a boomerang. Nintendo all the way IMO. :D

No DVD support helped the GC to be low-cost. I keep hearing about how a lot of people used their PS2 as their only DVD player, but I've never seen anyone with such a set-up.

Never really had a killer app? Well, if your killer app isn't Mario, Zelda, Metroid nor Resident Evil then I guess you're right. But not everybody likes Halo or GTA...

The only real problem with the GC was the lack of 3rd party support. Althought I guess a purple console doesn't help things either... (mine is black, thank you).

crazycat

Jul 14, 2006, 11:33 AM

Well i am going to buy a wii for sure, i know there will be great games. I dont like the controler and nothing anyone can say will make me change my mind unless i get my hands on it and actually like it.

Dagless

Jul 14, 2006, 11:59 AM

They've since changed the controller.

Yep, they changed the controller right back to the PS2 Dualshock. though now wireless, with tilt sensors and without rumble. Dual Shake isn't now called?

ChrisK018

Jul 14, 2006, 12:34 PM

I 100% trust the big N and will happily purchace a Wii. I enjoyed a number of GC titles, but they were all from Nintendo-- that was not a problem. If I was fed a steady diet of Mario, Zelda and Pikmin titles I'd be fine.

When it comes to other game genres, I'm indifferent to shooters and sports, which is why I have yet to pick up an XBox or 360. That leaves RPGs, and the occaisonal odd realease like Ico and Katamari Demacy (which I really enjoyed)

To get my RPG fix it was the PS2 all the way. The GC gets a few toss-off titles, but most of the heavy-hitter RPG titles are locked up with Sony. (Gran Toursimo too. Love that) I hope that Nintendo gets some 3rd party RPG games that are universally well received and reviewed, as opposed to the type of games that only appeal to the die-hard obscure title fan-freaks.

Along with the Wii, I can still see myself grudgingly plunking down $600 for the PS3 just to get a few of those titles that Nintendo traditionally lacks.

Motley

Jul 14, 2006, 02:47 PM

I'll take a wait and see approach. See if the controller actually works out or is a disaster. Let other people here be the guinea pigs for me:D

ddrueckhammer

Jul 15, 2006, 01:24 AM

I'll take a wait and see approach. See if the controller actually works out or is a disaster. Let other people here be the guinea pigs for me:D

Well the good news is that even if the controller isn't as good as the initial reactions from E3, there is a classic controller and supposedly GC controllers will work with it as well. The virtual console, low price-tag, and Twighlight Princess alone are enough for me to buy it irregardless of the controller. Which, by the way, looks fantastic as a FPS control scheme to me if it works.

smwatson

Jul 15, 2006, 11:13 AM

Mario and Zelda are games designed for younger gamers, the control system for Metroid was flawed, surely a true killer app can appeal to all? (which rules out GTA :p )

GFLPraxis

Jul 15, 2006, 11:44 AM

Mario and Zelda are games designed for younger gamers, the control system for Metroid was flawed, surely a true killer app can appeal to all? (which rules out GTA :p )

I strongly disagree with all three of these statements.

Zelda more than anything. Anyone who thinks Zelda is designed for children has a few screws loose. I suppose I can see why someone might construe Mario as designed for younger gamers, but Zelda? And Metroid, flawed?

Trowaman

Jul 15, 2006, 11:55 AM

Mario and Zelda are games designed for younger gamers, the control system for Metroid was flawed, surely a true killer app can appeal to all? (which rules out GTA :p )

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

Zelda is kiddy?!?!?! I can take the Mario criticizm, I can easily see Pokemon complaints. But Zelda? If you mean Windwaker sure it was, but Ocarina of TIme? The upcoming Twilight Princesss? Kiddy? Please explain cause I'm not seeing this at all.

As for Metroid I thought it had fine controlls (except the DS version, stupid left handedness). Alls I know is on Prime I don't get cramps. :rolleyes:

DarkNetworks

Jul 15, 2006, 12:11 PM

Mario and Zelda are games designed for younger gamers, the control system for Metroid was flawed, surely a true killer app can appeal to all? (which rules out GTA :p )

Zelda is not for younger gamers only! :mad:

GFLPraxis

Jul 15, 2006, 12:33 PM

As for Metroid I thought it had fine controlls (except the DS version, stupid left handedness). Alls I know is on Prime I don't get cramps. :rolleyes:

Err, why didn't you try setting the controls to left handed mode?

ddrueckhammer

Jul 15, 2006, 04:07 PM

Well, I don't think just because something has cartoonish graphics that it is immediately intended for children. This applies to Zelda WW, as well as all Mario games. Both of these series are challanging enough for adults to appreciate if they would give them a chance. Are cartoons like the Simpsons, Family Guy, and the original Looney Toons intended only for children just because they are animated? No, the same applies to Mario and Zelda. By that Logic, the Final Fantasy series is only intended for children as well because it doesn't have sex, drugs, blood and guts throughout. In fact, all cell shaded games must be only intended for kids... BTW, most adults grew up playing Mario so it definately isn't intended only for the child demographic.

michaelltd

Jul 15, 2006, 04:25 PM

Dagless

Jul 15, 2006, 04:56 PM

I completely agree. After all, Killer 7 is cell shaded and that one is certainly not for children.

Aye, and the new Team Fortress 2 for PC/360/PS3 uses a form of cartoon-styled graphics. and frankly the art direction is fantastic, no uncanny valley problems, great crisp sharp visuals etc.

The pursuit of realistic graphics in games has destroyed what games are all about - NOT realism. I could shoot off on points but I can't be bothered.

Zelda is not for kids. Zelda is universal (Windwaker, OoT, Twilight Princess) all with completely different art directions, different styles altogether. Windwaker is the most "cartoon" yes, but is it for kids? Is Akira for kids? Hentai? Theres a market for cartoons and adults, incase you've been living under a rock for a few decades.

OMG CARTOON R TEH KIDZ

13iG_m4c_13oY

Jul 15, 2006, 04:58 PM

I trust nintendo i have always have. since the begining. I just love the way they do everyting; none of that boring stuff like Sony or Microsoft. For example who would think of i light gun, or a touch screen, or a motion sensored contoroller. Another thing why i trust nintendo and their new gameing console is that they always make such cool multiplayer games so you can play with your friends (Super Smash, Mario Kart: Double Dash) while Sony sticks to one player games, Microsoft is slowly catching on. So i plan to buy a new Wii the first week and even the ne Zelda game.

20" iMac (PowerPC)
20GB U2 iPod (I'am i like the only one..lol)

Xander

Jul 15, 2006, 05:37 PM

Gamecube is pretty bad I must say but was it not brought out BEFORE the Plastation 2 and X-Box therefore having an excuse to be a little naf? Nintendo64 has to be my favourite console, some amazing games on it such as Zelda and Banjo and Kazooie. :rolleyes:

Chaszmyr

Jul 15, 2006, 05:51 PM

Dagless

Jul 15, 2006, 06:30 PM

Using that theory the PS3 must automatically be naff as that will be the last to the table. Even here in the UK the Xbox was only released 2 months before the Cube, and in American you guys had the xbox just 3 days before.

GFLPraxis

Jul 15, 2006, 06:34 PM

Gamecube was way after PS2, not sure if it was before or after Xbox. Oh, and, it wasn't bad at all.

IIRC, GameCube launched 3 days before XBox. Or was it the other way around?

iEdd

Jul 15, 2006, 09:05 PM

Anyone in USA bitching about the cost of PS3 must first realise that their country is not the only one in the world:
$600US = ~$796AU
$600US =! $1000AU :rolleyes:
I understand there are taxes and stuff, but the US (as usual) gets a bargain. That's two less games I can afford. Life is so tough for the technologically dependent :p :D
As for Wii, it has some of the same mistakes as the GameCube did. The name, for instance. All the Nintendo haters that call it "teh kiddiez console" aren't going to start loving it for that. Meh. Their problem. Nintendo have once again used enough innovation to make a fun pickup+play console that is affordable on it's own or as a supplement to another console.
Xbox 360: Couldn't really care less. I'm pretty impressed with the one my brother owns, but PS3/Wii/Mac would be more than enough gaming/lack of money :o