The New Definition of Fanaticism

[Shrek]

Ok, here's the story:

One day about a year ago on another forum site, someone called me a terrorist because I had a religion. Well, this person didn't exactly outright say it. Instead he said that I am the type of person that would crash an airplane into a building, which is essentialy saying that I am a terrorist. All because I have a religion. And you know what, I was deeply offended! I'm still offended to this day because of that; those words rest deep in my soul. :( It's just a good thing he didn't say that to my face! :mad:

But I figured I wasn't the only one in the world who had been offended that way. I had heard the news reports about religious people across America being persecuted because "they're the one's responsible for 9/11."

So this morning I finally got sick of emotionally dealing with this incident and did the right thing. I sent a message to Merriam-Webster asking that they clearly draw the line somewhere between what fanaticism is and isn't. I mean some people just don't seem to understand and think that fanaticism is simply having a religion and that those people are all bad, which is not true. So I helped Merriam-Webster draw the line by giving them a proper definition for the word 'fanaticism': the act of commiting a crime in the name of religion or a higher being. I think that draws the line very clearly between being zealous and overzealous. Hopefully this will help change the use of the word fanaticism in our daily language and change the feelings of those who would persecute religious folks.

Here's to praying. . . ;)

[evoluzione]

it makes me sick that there are so many narrow minded ignorant racists in the world, especially here in the States. I thought NYC wouldn't be too bad as you have every single race, religion and culture here, but that just isn't the case, it's amazing how racist a lot of people here are.

i can understand you still being affected by what was said to you, i'm sure i would be also.

[scem0]

My only advice to you is: Don't be offended by immature people.

There is no point. If you know they are wrong (and they probably
know they are wrong too), then just don't worry about it.

[MacBandit]

Honestly you shouldn't take it too personally. There are a lot of sick people in the world and a lot of idiots also. If you take offense to everyone of them you will not be able to continue living.

[SPG]

Fanatic: A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

Unreasoning enthusiasm being the key here. A belief in religion is a far cry from fanaticism.

[Shrek]

Official reply from Merriam-Webster:

Dear Mr. Hughes:

Thank you for your comments. I should say first of all that any publisher can use the name "Webster's," so the "Webster dictionaries" you refer to may or may not be publications of this company. (In contrast, the full name "Merriam-Webster" is a registered trademark of this company.) Please refer to our on-line explanation at http://www.m-w.com/about/webster.htm (http://www.m-w.com/about/webster.htm) for the full story behind this rather confusing situation.

If you'd like to consult the most current Merriam-Webster definitions for "fanatic" and "fanaticism," you can use the on-line dictionary on our site's homepage, which is available at the following URL:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/ (http://www.merriam-webster.com/)

With that said, I should emphasize that we ourselves don't decide what words mean--we merely observe the way words are most commonly used and then document those uses in our dictionaries. Our definitions may vary in length and depth depending on the size of the dictionary, and they may change over time as the language itself evolves, but they are always directly based on usage evidence. Please understand that while we do take reader comments under advisement, our editorial policy prevents us from altering a definition unless we have hard evidence to back up such a change.

I hope this explanation is helpful. Thanks again for taking the trouble to write us with your feedback.

Cordially,


Karen Wilkinson
Associate Editor
Merriam-Webster, Inc.
E-mail: kwilkinson@Merriam-Webster.com (kwilkinson@Merriam-Webster.com)
Discover the meaning of life at http://www.merriam-webster.com (http://www.merriam-webster.com)
Introduce your kids to Buzz Word at http://www.wordcentral.com (http://www.wordcentral.com)
http://www.merriam-websterunabridged.com (http://www.merriam-websterunabridged.com) - The dictionary is just the beginning!

Hmmmph.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Thanks for the link shrek, i have been wanting a dictionary for meaning and my lousy spelling.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Thanks for the link shrek, i have been wanting a dictionary for meaning and my lousy spelling.

Sherlock 2 for a dictionary. Safari includes spell checking.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by evoluzione
it makes me sick that there are so many narrow minded ignorant racists in the world, especially here in the States. I thought NYC wouldn't be too bad as you have every single race, religion and culture here, but that just isn't the case, it's amazing how racist a lot of people here are.

i can understand you still being affected by what was said to you, i'm sure i would be also.

Believe me, NYC is much less racist than most places. Where I grew up in Oregon it was about 95% white, so of course there's not going to be much racial strife, but the racism is still there in the minds of the people.

For example, I'm Puerto Rican, and although in Oregon people don't have the stereotype that a Puerto Rican is going to rob them or anything, there is still the stereotype that latin people are primitive and stupid. For example, I was asked in all seriousness by my classmates if I lived in a straw hut when I was in Puerto Rico. And my mom who was going to law school at the time would have people literally laugh in her face when she told them she was going to law school. They'd be like, "you must mean Lane Community College". And my mom would be like, "No, I'm going to the U of O law school". And they'd just laugh, shake their head and say she doesn't even know the name of what school she's going to.

So I'll take the melting pot over white bread land anyday, thankyouverymuch. In NYC of course people see enough bad things from Puerto Ricans to reinforce their negative stereotypes, but by the same token they are likely to have Puerto Rican colleagues, schoolmates etc. Which means that if I go up to someone well dressed, well spoken, and in general not carrying myself like a thug, I will be respected as an individual.

This is why we need to support diversity, people: and I mean affirmative action, school busing, the whole bit. If different ethnic groups don't interact because of class barriers, then how is the chasm of understanding and mutual respect ever going to be bridged?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by lmalave
Believe me, NYC is much less racist than most places. Where I grew up in Oregon it was about 95% white, so of course there's not going to be much racial strife, but the racism is still there in the minds of the people.

For example, I'm Puerto Rican, and although in Oregon people don't have the stereotype that a Puerto Rican is going to rob them or anything, there is still the stereotype that latin people are primitive and stupid. For example, I was asked in all seriousness by my classmates if I lived in a straw hut when I was in Puerto Rico. And my mom who was going to law school at the time would have people literally laugh in her face when she told them she was going to law school. They'd be like, "you must mean Lane Community College". And my mom would be like, "No, I'm going to the U of O law school". And they'd just laugh, shake their head and say she doesn't even know the name of what school she's going to.

So I'll take the melting pot over white bread land anyday, thankyouverymuch. In NYC of course people see enough bad things from Puerto Ricans to reinforce their negative stereotypes, but by the same token they are likely to have Puerto Rican colleagues, schoolmates etc. Which means that if I go up to someone well dressed, well spoken, and in general not carrying myself like a thug, I will be respected as an individual.

This is why we need to support diversity, people: and I mean affirmative action, school busing, the whole bit. If different ethnic groups don't interact because of class barriers, then how is the chasm of understanding and mutual respect ever going to be bridged?

That statement in it's self is gross generalization about Oregonians. I think you should take a step back reavaluate the who the racist is.

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by lmalave
This is why we need to support diversity, people: and I mean affirmative action, school busing, the whole bit. If different ethnic groups don't interact because of class barriers, then how is the chasm of understanding and mutual respect ever going to be bridged?

I don't necessarily agree with your proposed solutions, but I hear you Imalave. I was not born in this country, and if you saw me, you would know that I'm not a "natural-born" American. However, I am a proud American citizen, a fluent English speaker, a big baseball fan, and a law-abiding productive taxpayer. This country has indeed come a long way since the days of segregation and Jim Crow, but there is a long ways to go.

I'm wondering if there's a limit to tolerance in the U.S. I think most (mature) Americans won't call me racist names, and most probably wish me well. But would they ever see me as an "American"? If were walking down the street in anytown U.S. next to a Frenchman and someone said "get that foreigner out of here!", 99.9% of the time they will look at me. :(

Well, if the Irish, Germans, Italians, and other American ethic groups who were once considered by their Anglo-Saxon peers to be "foreigners," I suppose there's always hope. :)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by macktheknife
'm wondering if there's a limit to tolerance in the U.S. I think most (mature) Americans won't call me racist names, and most probably wish me well. But would they ever see me as an "American"? If were walking down the street in anytown U.S. next to a Frenchman and someone said "get that foreigner out of here!", 99.9% of the time they will look at me. :(

Well, if the Irish, Germans, Italians, and other American ethic groups who were once considered by their Anglo-Saxon peers to be "foreigners," I suppose there's always hope. :)

I don't automatically consider anyone a foreigner and I am not alone in my thinking.

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I don't automatically consider anyone a foreigner and I am not alone in my thinking.

I understand this point, which is why I said that "I think most (mature) Americans won't call me racist names, and most probably wish me well." However, in my life, I have heard enough of: "Oh, you speak good English, did you learn it back in your country?" "Oh, what country are you from?" "Why don't you go back to your country you &$%*@!" The most painful slight is when I tell fellow Americans that I am an American and they respond with either derision, laughter, or mild bemusement.

Other than the color of my skin, I don't advertise my ethnicity. I don't where any "ethnic" clothing, and I don't wear a badge that says "I am X." I don't think I'm oppressed or that every slight is a fundamentally racist attack. None of these many, many, many incidents make me think America is fundamentally a hostile and racist country. In fact, after traveling to many parts of the world, I've realized that Americans, on the whole, are pretty good about exercising racial tolerance.

Nonetheless, I've experienced enough incidents in my life to remind me that I am still not fully accepted as an American by every fellow American. Not every American is a bigot, of course, but that doesn't change what I have experienced in my life.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by MacBandit
That statement in it's self is gross generalization about Oregonians. I think you should take a step back reavaluate the who the racist is.

Umm..well - I gave rather specific anecdotes, not just generalizations. My whole point was to debunk the myth that more homogenous areas are less racist than more diverse areas. They're not less racist, they just don't have to deal with racism as much, so you just don't hear about the racism in the news, whereas here in NYC the race issue is always at the forefront.

Let me give you another example: Puerto Rico and most of Latin America is very racist. But in Puerto Rico it's just not talked about because the relationship between Puerto Rico and the U.S. gets all the attention - so Puerto Ricans see themselves first and foremost as Puerto Ricans. And yet to a much greater degree than in the U.S., your socioeconomic status is determined by your skin color. Here in the U.S. you at least have a few prominent business and political leaders that are black, but in Puerto Rico they basically don't exist.

So all I'm trying to say is that racism is not just defined by wether you have name-calling, violent incidents, etc. To me the much more insidious form of racism is like the kind they have in Puerto Rico, where a race is thought of as lazy, not smart, incapable of leadership, etc., and believe me, this deeply affects the chances for academic and professional (and ultimately economic) achievement.

[Shrek]

Man, this thread got hijacked BIG TIME!!! :mad:

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by Shrek
Man, this thread got hijacked BIG TIME!!! :mad:

Sorry--we got carried away a bit here. I've pm'ed arn to have the posts move to a new thread.

[jefhatfield]

threads in the community section and political sections get hijacked all the time and it's the nature of these types of threads

what i don't like is when there is a really intriguing hardware rumor thread, with facts and links, and the whole thread gets off topic

but when that happens, people steer it back on path

but as for the original intent of this thread, i think america has fallen into religious fanaticism, or very close to it for two basic reasons

the more obvious reason is as a backlash for 9/11...fight fire with fire thinking

the other is the marriage of religion and politics in the last few years in the usa...against all the common sense of our founding fathers

for a political party, or parties, to try and get a few extra votes by cuddling up to religion often ends up polluting the practice of that religion with all the money and power that gets flashed around

if someone asks me what i believe, i tell them i am a christian and believe in christ

not a born again christian, catholic, protestant, orthodox, discliple, latter day saint, witness of jehovah, or card carrying member of the christian right...it's as if this age's christians are embarassed to admit they are simply and humbly christians and that jesus is god