The Martial Arts Thread

[WinterMute]

Inspired by scem0, I thought a little MA discussion might not go amiss, who does what and at what level?


Originally posted by scem0
no, Aikido is no fun.

(snip)

but I love martial arts, and I think they are one of the most healthy things you can do for yourself. They exercise everything about you, physically, mentally, and even spiritually.


Sorry to disagree, bit aikido is the most fun you can have with your clothes on...:D

I totally agree with your last statment though, I've studied a number of martial arts, karate, kendo, iado, lau gar kung fu and ju-jitsu. I hold a 2nd dan in Kyukoshinkai karate and a first dan in Tomiki aikido.

I've found that aikido is the most effective MA form around, although it takes ages to get any good at it (6 years and counting). At it's best it is amongst the most beautiful of martial arts, at is most brutal there is nothing short of firearms that can stand against it.

As usual, all martial artists will tell you their particular brand is best, and site some genius of their form who could stun bears at 20 feet etc. but I've found the best way to gauge a modern western-practiced art is to talk to the average students, find out what their capabilities are.

I wouldn't dream of taking on Bruce Lee or the Gracie Brothers, but I have fought students from both Joot Keen Do and Gracie Ju-jitsu and have both taught and learned valuable lessons.

Inevitably martial arts cannot be practiced to their logical conclusions, cos people get killed, but as an everyday aid to health and balance they are excellent.:)

[scem0]

Originally posted by scem0
no, Aikido is no fun. Take kung fu, or if you really want a hard
leg workout, then take wushu, which involves lots of jumping.

I take both Kung Fu and Wushu, and having done many sports
required jumping, flipping, and gymnastics, I am a natural at
wushu, but any martial art requires patience, and perseverance.

Kung Fu is more beautiful than Aikido, and although it takes years
and years to be able to use it to fight, it benifits just about
everything else you do.

If you really like music, and dancing for that matter, take capoeira,
which is a fighting style that is just as much dance as it is fighting.
I took a couple of classes of this, and since it also (can - depending
on which style of capoeira you take) involves a lot of jumping, I
excelled in it. But I didn't like the fact that I barely learned any
self defense, so I started up wushu (and kung fu, which I had
already been taking). THe music is a HUGE part of capoeira, so if
you are annoyed by capoeira music, then you shouldn't take
capoeira.

Oh, and capoeira is a game, not a fighting style. You don't 'fight'
in capoeira, you 'play'. I thought that was interesting.

Sorry to go off on this martial arts rant, but I love martial arts, and
I think they are one of the most healthy things you can do for
yourself. They exercise everything about you, physically, mentally,
and even spiritually.

http://www.capoeira.super-net.pl/gal23/Clip0007.jpg

^^^ Advanced capoeira is AMAZING to watch. Find a video if you can ^^^.


--

That is my post from the career thread.

--

Oh, and your right about Bruce Lee. He was the best fighter out
there... He was so amazing. People think that Kung Fu movie
stars don't actually know kung fu, but Bruce Lee was the best
fighter in the world (in my opinion) - he tapped into what martial
arts is all about. He had reflexes that were just amazing. And
stars like Jet Li and Jackie Chan actually know a great deal of
martial arts, and Jet Li has been seen performing EXTREMELY
difficult wushu jumps when practicing. And if you saw him on
Jay Leno, you know he is fast ;).

[scem0]

Also from the career thread:

Originally posted by scem0


wushu videos (http://www.beijingwushuteam.com/video.html)

Capoeira movies (http://www.princeton.edu/~capoeira/md_mov.html)

and next time you are on limewire or any other p2p client search
for wushu and be amazed. THere is one video that is usually
named something like 'martial arts trickz' or something like that
which has wushu moves that convinced me to sign up to take it.
Wushu practitioners can do the most amazing stunts ever. It
will drop your drawn when it looks like they stay in the air a
full second longer than seems possible, and then they land in
the splits (after doing 3 spins, while sideways in the air). I can
only dream of doing those jump sequences.

I am on my way though. I can do a butterfly kick, and an arial,
and many standard, basic gymnastics things, such as flip-flops,
backflips, and combinations of those things.


I am leaving for houston (and on my way to my first view of an
apple store) now, and I regret that I won't be here to participate
in this thread, but I plan on posting when I get back on Friday.

Keep it alive for me! ;) And go download that wushu video.

[WinterMute]

I saw a training video of his a while back, he certainly is fast, but that tends to be a feature of many excellent martial artists.

The founder of our club is now 80 and he still has hands that move faster than my eyes...:)

[howard]

yeah, i LOVE bruce lee movies...he is so bad ass.

he is a giant muscle...i heard he would do sit-ups with a cinder block on his stomach for hours. also heard they had to SLOW down the tapes in his movies cause it was all just a big blur...and now adays they speed it up. though i do agree that most of the actors you mentioned are very skilled....people might think they arn't because they are in the movie business but hey, it makes them a lot of money.

[iGav]

Originally posted by WinterMute
and site some genius of their form who could stun bears at 20 feet etc.

:p :p :p classic.....

I'd still love to learn Aikido...... ;) :)

Then I could stun bears too...... :p

[iGav]

Originally posted by howard

he is a giant muscle...i heard he would do sit-ups with a cinder block on his stomach for hours. also heard they had to SLOW down the tapes in his movies cause it was all just a big blur...and now adays they speed it up.

Couldn't they have just filmed him at a faster fps??

Slowing down footage... that's what Steven Seagal does in his movies..... :p

I like those Shaolin Monk dudes..... Talk about dedication..... great fun in your local pool hall though!! :p

[howard]

how much does it cost to join a martial arts club or take lessons?...are there any age limits? i'd be interested

[beez7777]

i took about 5 years of kung fu, but quit because i didn't like the way the school was heading. they were awarding belts based not on skill, but on how many classes you went to. personally i felt this was ridiculous, because i was very devoted, and pretty good at it, yet there were people who had no idea what they were doing, but went to a few more classes than me, so they felt they had the right to speak condescendingly. i was one of the most respected and liked there, and had a great teacher. he got fired, for some stupid reason, and it pissed me off. anyway, i left, and about a year later the place fell apart due to bad management or something. :) . i really wana learn aikido, but i'm not sure if there are any places around me i can go to learn it. there probably are, i just haven't searched. i think martial arts is great, it builds discipline, control over your mind and body, as well as other things.

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by howard
how much does it cost to join a martial arts club or take lessons?...are there any age limits? i'd be interested

It varies quite a lot, the so called McDojo's are expensive because they are franchises set up to make money, look for an art with a strong history and a dojo that has taught the same art for a long time.

Most arts have junior sections, although aikido isn't a good art to start too young as it involves a lot of joint manipulation that isn't too cool on young, developing joints.

Judo is good for kids, as is karate and the various kung fu's.

[janey]

oh no! not a martial arts thread :p
my dad's a black belt in like hapkido or something so since i was like 4 he made me take martial arts lessons (i don't do it anymore).
In 10 years i only got a 3rd degree black belt in taekwondo and just an ordinary black belt in hapkido.

i dislike lessons but i really enjoy watching jackie chan, jet li, and bruce lee do stuff :p

[Dont Hurt Me]

I just had to say this even for myself ( Bruce Lee was Amazing) Never really thought so untill i start seeing his stuff. He was unique, talented and a powerhouse. Such a loss for everyone to have someone like this taken away from us. There i said it.

[howard]

if someone could help me out, i'd still like some info on estimated costs for lessons. how long are they? what kinda requirements ie: equipment or clothes? and how much time do you spend, in and out of the classes?

[janey]

Originally posted by howard
if someone could help me out, i'd still like some info on estimated costs for lessons. how long are they? what kinda requirements ie: equipment or clothes? and how much time do you spend, in and out of the classes?
it depends on what and where.
mine were pretty decent, about 3 hours a week (couldn't handle more because my schedule was packed and i just couldn't handle the classes)

[howard]

can anyone give me a detailed description of the styles?...like kung fu, karate, ju jitsu (sp?) and so forth?...think it would be like what...$20 an hour?

[MrMacMan]

some of those styles are really really kicking.

Whoo :flips upsidedown fake punching opponent:
:eek:

damn fast.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I did Judo for over 20 years - I started when I was 5, and fought in many tournaments. Finally, I got into the NZ Olympic Team for the 1992 Barcelona games, way back in '88.

Then, I had a catastrophic series of injuries (a player from the visiting French National Team broke my shoulder 2 days before I went to the Oceania tournament in Sydney - I still went, and still came 4th. Could've won it, too...). After recouperating from THAT one, I was teaching a class and a crossover student from Karate asked if a certain throw was legal - then demonstrated without me thinking he was going to (turned out to be a "Flying Scissor" throw - which ISN'T legal...). Ripped my knee cartillage nearly in two - ended my competitive career at 18...

I moved to Sydney a few years later (as ALL Kiwi's inevitably do...). And because I was bored and alone, I decided to join the NSW University club. After a while of training/teaching/etc., I was enrolled in the New South Wales Open Tournament, without my knowledge - the coach needed to fill numbers, and didn't think I'd mind too much...

So, I went in and won the Open category. Then the Australian Judo Federation President asked me to join the National team. I had to decline, saying that I had formally retired from competitions - at the tender age of 22 (also, being a New Zealander, I'd feel like a traitor!).

I really could've been a contender for an Olympic Gold Medal - for years, it was my sole driving force. It's amazing how your priorities change...

Now, after years of reclusiveness, at the ripe old age of 33 I find myself with no outlet, and an increasing waistline. So I tracked down a really nice Judo club in Chelsea (London, UK) - famed to be one of the best in the world - and I bought myself a Mizuno Judogi (I ALWAYS wanted one of those, all my Judo career. They are the best suits ever made. But I could NEVER afford one - until now...).

Anyway - I'll let you know if I survive the onslaught of the first training session...

;)

[howard]

wow that was an amazing story...

i'm terribly sorry about all those accidents. after all that its good to know that you are going to try it again.

your getting me so much more curious about learning a martial art!!! do accidents happen alot in martial arts? i suspect more on that professional level that at the more amateur level...

[WinterMute]

kiwi_the_iwik:

Good man!:D

Going back is always the hardest part.

I quit karate because I had my kneecap split in two, not by a karate technique, I got hit with a chair in a recording studio (long story).

The physio recommended that I leave the striking arts alone, as hyper extending the joint would put strain on the screws, but mentioned aikido as a possibility as I'd not damaged the internals. After a 2 year lay off I hauled my increasingly flabby arse down to a local club and hurled myself around for a while. 6 years on and I'm 39 and staring at a world champs appearence and a 2nd dan grading this summer.

Howard:

All martial arts have injuries, its a fact of life, but they tend to be accidental, and you will get hurt more easily playing football or rugby.

I've dislocated a thumb and had an elbow badly "shocked" (little real damage) and you'll get the bruises, it depends on how hard you want to train.

[howard]

yeah i don't mind the little injuries at all...i can take lots of bruises and scrapes and the like....but i've NEVER had a big injury and i'm very very scared of getting badly injured.

[WinterMute]

With a well ordered dojo and a competant instructor you should have little chance of serious injury, but it's always possible, it's martial training after all, not gardening.

Mind, you could trip up the kerb and break your head tomorrow:D (really hoping that doesn't happen now...)

[scem0]

My wushu/kung fu coach, was teaching kicks to
me right when I joined, and he was holding the
pad, and letting me kick it. Then he let me hold
the pad while he kicked it... wow. It
nearly knocked the air out of me. He has so
much power! He doesn't look like he would be
THAT powerful. But kung fu s full of that... hidden
power. ;)

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I wouldn't worry about getting injured, howard. It's just a sport - and in all sports you can get injured if you're not careful.

Anyway - the first thing they teach you in Judo is how to fall. It may sound silly, but when you've been thrown over the shoulder of a 6 foot tall opponent, the last thing you want to do is to say hello to the floor at a great rate of knots without knowing what to do when you get there.

I've injured myself a fair bit, I suppose (broken and dislocated fingers and toes, sprained ankles, concussion, and the like...), but it hasn't really affected me that much (he says, drool running down one side of his mouth...). It's probably because I used to push myself so hard during training, though.

The bottom line is that you get out of it what you put in. If you don't push yourself over your limits, you'll be fine.

Ironically, the literal translation to the word "Judo" is "the gentle way".

I've always compared it to wrestling in pyjamas...

;)

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
I've always compared it to wrestling in pyjamas...

;)

At least you don't have to wear hakama, I keep tripping over the damn things.

Ever read "Angry White Pyiamas" by Robert Twigger, good read even if you're not an aikidoka.

Here's a pic of a lovely technique called Mountain Storm, some heavy "blending with the mat" about to happen

[Steradian]

I am in Aikido and enjoy every minute of it, including the "blending with the mat" :D I think it is great excercise, the best martial art...I dont know :p

[howard]

its those broken and dislocated fingers i'm worried about most...i'm a musician and my hands are precious to me...

[senseibiz]

I have studied Shotokan karate for 14 years now. I have been thru many tournaments, nationally and internationaly. I can say that it has been a great experience. so if anyone is interested
in learning any martial arts, I say go for it. if you are serius about it. also check out the schools and styles, see which one works for you before you join.
good luck

[janey]

Originally posted by howard
its those broken and dislocated fingers i'm worried about most...i'm a musician and my hands are precious to me...
man me too...
i love playing the piano and whenever i'd dislocate or break a finger i hated it. Also it sucked when i dislocated my shoulder and almost fractured my elbow.
the reason i quit was because my parents started to wonder why on earth i was using my rescue inhaler so much :p :rolleyes:

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I play the guitar and piano too - in fact, it was sometimes nice to avoid practicing the piano - and the wrath of my piano teacher - when I was growing up because of finger injuries... ;)

I have to say that nowadays I have been noticing the onset of arthritis in a few of my fingers, all because of dislocations/breaks...

:(

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by howard
its those broken and dislocated fingers i'm worried about most...i'm a musician and my hands are precious to me...

The striking arts tend to do more damage to hands than the grappling ones IMO, I'm a bass player, and I was always having to be careful of my hands in karate, but I have to say that in six years of studying aikido, I havn't conciously worried for my hands, my sanity occasionally, but not the hands:D

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by senseibiz
I have studied Shotokan karate for 14 years now. I have been thru many tournaments, nationally and internationaly. I can say that it has been a great experience. so if anyone is interested
in learning any martial arts, I say go for it. if you are serius about it. also check out the schools and styles, see which one works for you before you join.
good luck

I studied in a Shotokan dojo for three years before moving to Kyokushinkai when I went to Uni, I thought the Shotokan basic forms were excellent, I wouldn't have prospered half as well in the "knockown" form without them.

Sadly, aikido stance and reactions are so different from the karate ethos, it took me a good year to stop blocking and start blending, and the stance:p Aikido is very square-on to begin with, nothing like the side stance in karate, although I tended to favour cat-stance in competition as I could use mae-geri as a jab:D

It's useful having striking practice in aikido, as a lot of aikido styles don't really emphasise reall attacks, prefering to work from grasps. Luckily Tomiki Aikido is a free-form style that encourages attacks from punches, kicks, lunges, weapons and dustbins, as well as multiple attackers:)

[scem0]

Originally posted by howard
can anyone give me a detailed description of the styles?...like kung fu, karate, ju jitsu (sp?) and so forth?...think it would be like what...$20 an hour?

----kung fu---- Any of various Chinese martial arts, especially those forms in which sharp blows and kicks are applied to pressure points on the body of an opponent

My favorite fighting style, along with wushu. Circular movements
usually mimicking the movements of animals. Shaolin kung fu
includes the animal styles (monkey, tiger, crane, dragon, etc.).
All the styles are both effective, and graceful. I took ambush
and elephant, at a small martial arts studio. You can visit the
website here. (Taichiherb.com). There are many good sites
on kung fu out there. One thing I like about kung fu is its
use of energy. My old kung fu teacher would tell me to use a
person's energy against them. If they were punching you with
all your force, move out of the way, grab their wrist, and pull them
over your foot (tripping them). You used their energy against
them. THis is seen in most martial arts, mainly judo.


BUT DON'T TAKE AMERICANIZED KUNG FU. God I hate it. As
beez said, 99% of them award belts upon completing forms that
a 2 year old can do, and they don't award belts upon skill, or if
you are ready. Ameri Fu is terrible. Stay away.

---- karate ---- A Japanese art of self-defense in which sharp blows and kicks are administered to pressure-sensitive points on the body of an opponent.

I don't know much about karate other then that it is Japanese,
and that you can find more info on the web.

History Of Karate

Karate originated 500 years ago from the Ryukyu Islands. It is a form of fighting art derived from a combination of traditional Okinawan martial art called Te, and Chinese Boxing.

In the Ryukyus, the king had a policy of banning the usage of weapons among the common people. As a result, the people had to invent their own martial arts so as to protect their lives and properties. During the early 17th century, people were banned from carrying or possessing weapons. Hence, people of the upper class studied Chinese Boxing in secret, and founded their unique form of martial art. This was the earliest known Karate.

Before Tang-te (Chinese Boxing) was being studied by people of the Ryukyus, two forms of martial arts had already existed - Naha-te and Shuri-te. These martial arts, found in the cities of Naha and Shuri, were considered to be the origins of the many styles of modern Karate.

Naha-te was the martial art founded by Kanryo Higaonna. Kanryo Higaonna went to Fukien Province, China to study Shaolin Boxing. He founded a style of Te based on a combination of traditional Naha-te with Chinese Boxing, called Shorei-Ryu. The other style, Shuri-te, was represented by Yatsunesu Azato. Modern styles of Karate like Shotokan-Ryu, ****o-Ryu and Wado-Ryu were derived from Shuri-te. Another style, Goju-Ryu, was founded by Chojun Miyagi, a disciple of Kanryo Higaonna.

Shihan Miyagi was borned in 1887, in the city of Naha. The Miyagi family was well-known in Naha. At the age of 14, Chojun Miyagi studied Te from Naha-te Grandmaster Kanryo Higaonna. At 16, he alone went to China to learn the martial arts. Once in China, Shihan Miyagi received strenous training from the Chinese masters. Shihan Miyagi also studied the old texts and theories of martial arts. After he went back to the Ryukyus, he compared the pros and cons of Chinese Boxing with Okinawa-te, and founded an unique way of breathing called Sanchin. Till today, Sanchin is still an essential form of exercise (for warming up and for body strengthening) practised by Karate-kas, regardless of the many styles. Shihan Miyagi not only managed to combine physiology with Karate, but also founded Karate as a form of practice for spiritual well-being. With these new ideas, he founded Goju-Ryu Karate-do ie, the Hard and Soft school.

Goju-Ryu Karate-do, as defined by Go, which means hard, and Ju, which means soft, is based on the natural laws of Yin and Yang. (A Taoist philosophy which separates elements of the Universe into "positive" and "negative" forms, hence resulting in a state of equilibrium for the world) Yin and Yang can also be found in humanistic ways, with the Go (Yang) representing preserverence and Ju (Yin) representing cohesiveness.

Goju-Ryu maintained its traditional appearance and its usefulness in a real fight. This is clearly seen in the hard and soft techniques unique in Goju-Ryu, for example, the Sanchin and the Tensho Katas, the latter also known as 'turning-palms' kata.

In Sanchin, the practisioner maintains absolute mental alertness and tension in his body and nerves, hence reaching a state whereby he is in total control of himself. Tensho, a softer form of exercise as compared to the Sanshin, is practised in a way such that the fighting spirit is concealed within the practisioner, waiting to be unleashed upon the opponent.

Goju-Ryu techniques, whether hard and soft, can be easily changed to its opposite forms. The motion of the practisioner is dynamic, undisrupted and keeps in line with his opponent. If his opponent attacks with hard techiques, he can be easily overcome with soft techniques. Should his opponent attack with soft techniques, he could be counteracted with hard techniques. This is seen as the paradox of Karate, and is originated from Goju-Ryu unique style of breathing exercise.

Goju-Ryu Katas (forms) included many stances of animals, like the cat, the dog, the crane, the tiger and the dragon. To say that man learned how to fight from the animals is fair, because when animals fight, their concentration are focused in only the fighting and not disrupted by any other thoughts. Unlike animals, man is not able to concentrate only in the fighting, as their minds have already been overcome by selfish desires and evil thoughts. Goju-Ryu is traditional in a sense that it emphasized heavily on natural breathing and forms of animals.

To focus one's concetration wholly in a fight is represented by the Go (hard) aspect of Karate-do. But the paradox of Karate is not necessarily represented by the Go aspect. Rather, if Go means an reaction to intensified situations, Ju (soft) means avoiding unnecessary bloodshed or conflicts. If both the Go and Ju aspects can be equally balanced, the paradox of Karate could then be reached.

The Karate of the future is not only an art whereby the sole purpose of the practisioner is to knock down the opponent. If this is so, Karate would have lost its meaning as an art. The practisioner trains in Karate to safeguard his life, as well as learning to respect the life of his opponent. In this way, he could be a most courteous person; the do aspect of Karate would be fulfilled and people could then see Karate as an art worthy to be practised.
From http://www.kamae.co.za/Info.html

----jujitsu---- An art of weaponless self-defense developed in Japan that uses throws, holds, and blows and derives added power from the attacker's own weight and strength.

This is like the energy thing I was telling you about. I would love
to take this martial art, but I have never had the time. It involves
some AWESOME ways to take down an oponent. It is a lot like
judo (and they are considered to be the same in most places),
where you get your oponnent 'off center' and then they
are easy to take down. THe basic idea in this MA (martial art) is
to take down the oponnent, and then kick them when they're
down ;). Well, it isn't that simple, but you will get the idea after
watching these movies (http://jujitsu.geddis.org/movies/descriptions.html).

There are so many styles of martial arts that I would be typing
all day to explain some of the styles. But there are many sites
that I would recommend:
http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding/36_fitness_tip.html
http://www.allmartialarts.com/
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Pagoda/6968/history.htm
http://www.mastyles.com/styles.cfm

I plan on taking martial arts until I can no longer do it, whether
that is for physical reasons, or because I don't have the time. I
really think it is one of the healthiest things you can do for your-
self.History Of Karate

[WinterMute]

Good post, scem0.

Aikido derives from ju-jutsu and judo, as well as from the weapons-based arts of iado, kendo and shorinji kempo.

There is an excellent book called "The Dynamic Sphere" which discusses the implications of aikido as an ethical martial art, and lays out the basis of the trditional form. A good place to start if anyone's interested.

Apart from judo, is anyone involved in the full-contact side of things? It's a great way to discover of your technique and training actually work:D

[scem0]

Well, I spar in class, but we try to keep it slow, because your
learn so much more when you spar slowly. I do learn a lot when
being taught, but it is hard to apply your knowledge (and a lot
easier to forget it) if you haven't used it. So if you plan on taking
martial arts, I would recommend a place that has sparring. You
don't necessarily need pads to spar, if you are going extremely
slowly. If you are going at full speed, pads help ;).

There is also some 'full-contact' games you can play. One of which
my instructor called 'sticky-hands'. It was really interesting, and
it helped immensly in sparring. What you would do is you would
spar someone, but your wrists had to constantly be touching. It
was kind of wierd, because the calm, slower person always 'beat'
the person going at full speed. The calm person would be able
to get them off balanced very easily. Kung Fu amazes me every
day, and I love how it is such a paradox: learn to fight, but do
anything to avoid a fight; be calm, but be ready; be calm when in
the face of danger; etc.

If you aren't taking a martial art, take one. They are so healthy -
physically, mentally, and even spiritually. One thing I noticed
right away when I started taking it at my former studio was how
my reflexes improved by a lot. I was catching balls in basketball
that I shouldn't have been able to catch (ie bad passes :D).

If you haven't been able to tell - I love martial arts :D:D:D.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by übergeek
man me too...
i love playing the piano and whenever i'd dislocate or break a finger i hated it. Also it sucked when i dislocated my shoulder and almost fractured my elbow.
the reason i quit was because my parents started to wonder why on earth i was using my rescue inhaler so much :p :rolleyes:

Sorry to hear about your asthma, I hope it is under control now. Are you a piano prodigy?

I guess any sport can be dangerous, but I had thought that the martial arts were safer!

[MacFan25]

I'm not really into martial arts.

I know someone, though, that has just started some kind of martial arts thing. I can't remember what he said that it was called though.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I remember when I was 6 we used to have Judo vs. Ju-jitsu tournaments...

I can recall them vividly - I'd bow, step forward and be confronted by an opponent who would be performing some form of Kata before me; swinging arms and flailing legs in my general direction.

Of course, all we Judo players had to do was to grab an arm or a leg as it presented itself to us, before chucking them for Ippon. End of fight.

What a hoot...

;)

[crackpip]

If your still looking for a martial art, consider the Korean art of Kuk Sool Won. It's teaches a good balance of offensive and defensive techniques, from kicking and punching to joint-locking and pressure points. It's a good hard/soft style with enough material to keep you learning new things for a very long time.

crackpip

[scem0]

korean martial arts are too much like boxing. They aren't very
pretty at all. They are extremely effective though. I have a
Korean friend who sometimes show me a little bit of the immense
amount of Tae Kwan Do that he knows, and it has a lot of power,
and speed. It just isn't beautiful. I think a beginner kung fu
student would get beat up by a beginner Tae Kwan Do student,
but a master Kung Fu teacher would kick the master Tae Kwan
Do teacher's ass. But I really have barely a clue. :p

edit - but I am not familiar with Kuk sool won, so I don't know
if it is like the other martial arts I have tried.

Uber - I bet if you did martial arts (and took it slowly) it would
help your asthma. My sister has really bad asthma, and yoga
helped her. So, I bet tai chi would help a lot.

Now I'm gunna start on Tai Chi. I think Tai CHi is great. It is
a VERY healthy thing to do. It helps breathing, balance, and
everything else basically. It is slow, so you don't have to worry
about hurting yourself (although it is possible), and it has helped
many people get through illnesses. My grandmother has
parkinson's disease and she does a lot of Tai Chi, which helps
her control her hands better. It has helped her immensly. I took
a bit of Tai Chi at my old Kung Fu school. It helped me a lot in
my other martial arts (elephant and ambush kung fu). So if you
want to do something increadibly relaxing, and healthy for your
body, or if you want to get better at another martial art (or any
sport really) take Tai Chi. It doesn't look very powerful, but it is
one of the most (if not the most) powerful martial art. It is so
relaxing. After taking a year of Tai Chi you will have much better
body control.

[wdlove]

How would Tae Kwan Do work for an older person? It's taught by an instructor at a local church.

[scem0]

Originally posted by wdlove
How would Tae Kwan Do work for an older person? It's taught by an instructor at a local church.

hehe, learning how to fight at church... Well, tae kwan do is good
and all, but it is a lot like boxing - especially when being taken in
the USA where it has been (sadly :() americanized. An older
person would benifit most from styles like tai chi and yoga. Fast
moving martial arts like Tae Kwan Do and wushu might not
appeal to older people as much. But any martial art will help
an older person a great deal.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by scem0
korean martial arts are too much like boxing. They aren't very
pretty at all. They are extremely effective though. I have a
Korean friend who sometimes show me a little bit of the immense
amount of Tae Kwan Do that he knows, and it has a lot of power,
and speed. It just isn't beautiful. I think a beginner kung fu
student would get beat up by a beginner Tae Kwan Do student,
but a master Kung Fu teacher would kick the master Tae Kwan
Do teacher's ass. But I really have barely a clue. :p


Have you tried Gong fu Scem0? It's not as pretty as Wu shu, but it is the more effective base under which wu shu was built on. Personally, I prefer Gong Fu because it's the art at its purest, not a prettied up version used to show off at competitions.

[scem0]

but I'm such a show-off! I could never do it. ;). I really am the
biggest show-off in the world. I never miss a chance to do a
backflip or any time of flip in front of people. :D. But, no, I haven't
tried it. I like the pretty, show-off kind of wushu though, because
I never plan on getting in a fight, and if I do, I think I will be
more prepared than the person I'm fighting. But one of the
main things you learn in martial arts is the importance of avoiding
a fight. :)

[topicolo]

Originally posted by scem0
But one of the
main things you learn in martial arts is the importance of avoiding
a fight. :)

heh heh. yeah, avoid a fight if at all possible, but kick the crap out of the guy if you have to. ;)

[howard]

wow thanks for all the info guys. I would be VERY interested in trying something... i do still have a question that hasn't been answered...how much are lessons? Like an hour a week for $20? or is it more or less?

[scem0]

I pay (well my mom pays, but I am digressing ;)) $72 for 8 classes
(two 1.5 hour classes per week), which works out to 6 dollars
per hour of kung fu. This is pretty expensive, but it was the
only wushu in town, so my mom and I were willing to pay the
price (not only the actual cost, but it is all the way across town).

I really enjoy it, and wish I had time to not only take kung fu
and wushu, but also some other martial art.

[janey]

Originally posted by howard
wow thanks for all the info guys. I would be VERY interested in trying something... i do still have a question that hasn't been answered...how much are lessons? Like an hour a week for $20? or is it more or less? like we previously said, it depends on where you go, whether or not it's a private lesson and the quantity and length of the classes themselves. Mine were about two lessons a week, one hour each and i forgot what they costed...

[howard]

wow thats really really good price, i might be able to afford that myself...well its a good price compared to lessons in other things at least...

you've convinced me to try it out. I won't be able to till next semeter...cause i don't want to start out and then leave for the summer...but come next fall i'm gonna check out some places and try a few lessons out. if you guys are still around macrumors then i'll let you know how i do.

[scem0]

I'm glad :). I know you will enjoy it. There are a lot better prices
than the ones I posted previously too, so if you think those are
low, then you will be pleasantly suprised. I know you will enjoy
your experiences with martial arts. Alert us to which type of art
you choose, and which style if that art has styles.

Choose wisely ;) and have fun. :D

[howard]

well theres a kung fu/tai chi institution that is like a block from my apartment....that would be by far the most convienent....there are others that would be a little harder to get to.

I remember seeing one i think it was judo or karate but i'm not sure...and this really muscular chinese guy came out of it, i was curious as to how skilled that guy most be.... and i was intrigued to check that place out...but i think the convience factor of this other one is just to good to pass up....well all i can do is check out the prices and go from there.

i kinda feel a little nervous...i've never fought anyone before. i'm more looking forward to what it has to offer me as far as my personal strength/flexibility/health etc. i don't necesarily want to fight all the time.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by howard
well theres a kung fu/tai chi institution that is like a block from my apartment....that would be by far the most convienent....there are others that would be a little harder to get to.

I remember seeing one i think it was judo or karate but i'm not sure...and this really muscular chinese guy came out of it, i was curious as to how skilled that guy most be.... and i was intrigued to check that place out...but i think the convience factor of this other one is just to good to pass up....well all i can do is check out the prices and go from there.

i kinda feel a little nervous...i've never fought anyone before. i'm more looking forward to what it has to offer me as far as my personal strength/flexibility/health etc. i don't necesarily want to fight all the time.

I think the teacher is EVERYTHING. If you're not getting taught well, you're just basically wasting your time. If you do start up, I would suggest that you check up on your physical fitness progress from time to time. It really keeps you motivated. It would be a good idea to check your weight and to measure your muscle sizes and see how they improve over the months, it's really amazing how much you improve. :D

[howard]

how do you measure your muscle size?

as far as checking my weight...i don't own a scale... i can't even remember the last time i weighed myself...but i am in no way overweight...i think i'm slightly underweight for my height

[topicolo]

Originally posted by howard
how do you measure your muscle size?

as far as checking my weight...i don't own a scale... i can't even remember the last time i weighed myself...but i am in no way overweight...i think i'm slightly underweight for my height

Easy, just use a tape measure :). As for your weight, it's useful to see how much weight you GAIN from added muscle mass. Since starting my training, I've gained 15lbs and decreased my body fat percentage to less than 10% from 15 or so percent. In any case, I think it's a good idea to go get yourself a scale, just to keep an eye on your progress and to keep you going.

[Squire]

A few years ago, when I decided that I was going to leave Korea (still haven't), I realized that I had to start some martial art. I saw Hapkido and Taekwondo classes, then finally decided on Judo (or "Yudo" in Korean). Aside from getting married, it was probably one of the best decisions I made over here. I, too, took a long break while I worked myself to death. Then I started back at it a few months ago. I entered two tournaments (quite an experience) and I maintain a great relationship with my master.

Regarding costs: It costs me about $60 (US) per month for lessons every weekday. In addition, I can go to all three classes per day if I want. (So, if I did nothing else, I could train for 15 hours per week for 60 bucks. A steal.) I have no idea what lessons cost elsewhere but if you're thinking of taking a martial art, I'd say go for it. Don't worry about injuries.

Cheers,

Squire

[howard]

question about the lessons...

in the first few weeks of lessons do you do more learning or both learning and sparring? and how does that compare when you get a lot more into it? how does the learning/sparring ratio change?

sorry about all the questions...i'm having to much fun talking about all this

[Squire]

Originally posted by howard
question about the lessons...

in the first few weeks of lessons do you do more learning or both learning and sparring? and how does that compare when you get a lot more into it? how does the learning/sparring ratio change?

sorry about all the questions...i'm having to much fun talking about all this

Like the Kiwi mentioned before, in judo, the first bit is spent learning how to land on the mat. I think for me, sparring started after about two weeks. (Remember, though- that was 10 lessons of about an hour and a half each.) I was pretty scared because I had to go up against one of the best guys. I later learned that fighting the skilled players is much safer than fighting unskilled players.

By the way, I'm also a musician (saxophone). I've been away from playing for quite some time, though. I can't remember any injuries that would have been serious enough to affect my music.

Go for it.

Squire

[scem0]

In response to Howard's concerns about fighting:

I haven't fought once in my current kung fu class. It is kind of
wierd how fighting is secondary to many other things, even
though martial arts are percieved as being all about fighting.
And at the one place I have taken martial arts where we did
spar, we would do it in slow motion, so it wasn't like fighting at
all.

[RugoseCone]

Howard,

The most important thing is the instructor. Most are going to be okay with you coming in and hanging out for a class to see if it's for you.

Go to a few dojo's around you, but don't be too concerned about the style right away. In my experience, I'd stay away from Tae Kwon Do. Most schools in the states are 100% Americanized. Of course there are exceptions, but I have been unable to find any. Lots of places advertising Karate are in fact Americanized T.K.D. you want to find the style Scem0 mentioned, Goju Ryu, if you are interested in karate. So be sure to sit in on a karate school.

I studied Ishun Ryu karate (an offshoot of Goju Ryu) for a little over two years and was close to being awarded green. I went to class one night a week for 2-3 hours and each "semester" was ten weeks. It was about $50-75 for the semester. Sparring only occurred in the adult class and participants were required to wear foot and hand guards, mouthpieces, and crotch cups. My equipment cost was probably about $125. Most importantly, sparring was totally voluntary and there was contact, but if not controlled you had to answer to the instructor. Nothing like a third dan, PIPEFITTER screaming "Control!!!" two inches from your year. I watched that man do 500 pushups on his fists in one go. Amazing. Took him about five minutes, but it sure got everyones' attention.

I ended up quitting after stopping due to a broken foot (basketball injury) and then being diagnosed with Osgood Schlaters disease. Nothing serious, I was just growing too fast, ie a 13 year old in an adult karate class. Heck I'm 28 now and I have a sport coat that still fits after 15 years.

[scem0]

I would definitely sit in on a couple classes.
Most places will let you participate even, at
least in Austin, Texas but we are especially
friendly, so don't count on anything.

Another thing - Kung Fu doesn't zap my energy. It
makes me really hungry, but after Kung Fu every
day I do a couple flips. Today I did a standing
back which is never very hard, but today it was extremely easy. Kung Fu improves EVERYTHING that
I do.

BTW to prove that I get hungry, I am at Schlotzsky's
right now, eating 2 pizzas - and I just got out
of kung fu. I'm eating back everything I just
got rid of... :( ;)

[janey]

Originally posted by scem0
I would definitely sit in on a couple classes.
Most places will let you participate even, at
least in Austin, Texas but we are especially
friendly, so don't count on anything.

Another thing - Kung Fu doesn't zap my energy. It
makes me really hungry, but after Kung Fu every
day I do a couple flips. Today I did a standing
back which is never very hard, but today it was extremely easy. Kung Fu improves EVERYTHING that
I do.
WOW. well here you're welcome to try it out for a week or two to see if you like it or not.
Damn you get hungry afterwards?!

[scem0]

Hungry is an understatement. I am STARVING.

über - you should start taking martial arts again.
but look around and find the right place. People
adapt to different styles, and I think Tae Kwon
Do wasn't right for you. Research a little.
The internet is a great source to find kung fu
studios in your area.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by scem0
I would definitely sit in on a couple classes.
Most places will let you participate even, at
least in Austin, Texas but we are especially
friendly, so don't count on anything.

Another thing - Kung Fu doesn't zap my energy. It
makes me really hungry, but after Kung Fu every
day I do a couple flips. Today I did a standing
back which is never very hard, but today it was extremely easy. Kung Fu improves EVERYTHING that
I do.

BTW to prove that I get hungry, I am at Schlotzsky's
right now, eating 2 pizzas - and I just got out
of kung fu. I'm eating back everything I just
got rid of... :( ;)

Was the pizza small, medium, or large? Was it deep dish or regular? How many added items?

Do you do it more for the exercise and relaxation?

[scem0]

2 childrens pepperoni pizzas. They cost $2 each and they come
with a cookie and a drink. So I get 2 drinks, 2 cookies of my
choice, and 2 pizzas for $4! The kids pizzas are also the same
size as the regular pizzas, but supposedly they have less cheese.
It doesn't look like it to me, but that is what I hear all the time.
I always get 2 kids pepperoni pizzas at schlotzsky's.

Do you do it more for the exercise and relaxation?

Both. BUt I would say I do it more for exercise. I just do it for
my health and general well-being. :)

[wdlove]

Originally posted by scem0
2 childrens pepperoni pizzas. They cost $2 each and they come
with a cookie and a drink. So I get 2 drinks, 2 cookies of my
choice, and 2 pizzas for $4! The kids pizzas are also the same
size as the regular pizzas, but supposedly they have less cheese.
It doesn't look like it to me, but that is what I hear all the time.
I always get 2 kids pepperoni pizzas at schlotzsky's.



Both. BUt I would say I do it more for exercise. I just do it for
my health and general well-being. :)

I would say that's a deal you couldn't pass up! What is the age limit? I would say that you are on you way to being a succesful young man! ;)

[scem0]

There isn't an age limit! But it would look kind of goofy for a
grown man to order a children's pizza. I am 15 so I can get
away with it ;).

[WinterMute]

i began a new beginners class at the club yesterday, 15 slightly nervous people in tracksuits and old karate gi's trying to figure out how my 5' 2" instructor was throwing me around like a ragdoll (I'm 6' and weigh 190).

I'd really forgotten what it's like to go right back to the basics of an art and look at it through a complete novices eyes. It certainly made me re-evaluate my thoughts on base technique and also how much we take for granted as we progress through the levels.

When I first began aikido, I used to be totally wiped out ot the end of a few rounds of free-play, which involve a 2 minute bout of attacking and defending alternately, last night I ran 10 bouts on the trot with beginners and grades alike without really getting out of breath, then taught the first 5 techniques of the basic Randori-no-kata to the beginners.

I love the energy and awareness that come from training at such intensity, it pervades everything i do in life, I'm 40 next year, and I certainly don't intend backing off any.

I'm always starving after a training session, I find if I eat too close to a session I feel dreadful during it, so I've always had a big lunch at 1-2ish then not eaten till after evening practice.

I've just increased my training to 3 times a week, we have the World Championships in Leeds this summer, and we're all getting into shape. Not that we stand too much chance, but it's open entry and we're all going up for the experience and the laugh.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by scem0
There isn't an age limit! But it would look kind of goofy for a
grown man to order a children's pizza. I am 15 so I can get
away with it ;).

If that's the case, I would be tempted for the price. That amount of food would fill me up! :p

[howard]

heres one of the places i was looking into...the website isn't that great... http://www.taichi.com/
but it does tell a lot about the instructors.

[scem0]

yeah, the instructers look good. Lots of wushu.... I like that :D.

[howard]

hmm...one more question...i could take classes for about a month and then either take a break over summer...or take classes somewhere back home...or i could just wait until next fall....which i think might be better...

[wdlove]

Originally posted by scem0
yeah, the instructers look good. Lots of wushu.... I like that :D.

Are they female or male? wushu? :confused:

[scem0]

Originally posted by howard
hmm...one more question...i could take classes for about a month and then either take a break over summer...or take classes somewhere back home...or i could just wait until next fall....which i think might be better...

It would be best to keep it up during the summer, but you don't
have to have an instructor to practice what you already know.
So unless you want to pay some money and take summer
classes, I would just practice every other day what you have
already learned.

Are they female or male? wushu?

I was talking about the instructors at the place Howard is thinking
about taking martial arts. Most of the instructors (all male) had
something about being expert wushu practitioners in their
profiles. I like wushu, so that is why I said that I liked the
teachers. THey are also all asian, I think, and I prefer asian
teachers to American ones, because American teachers tend
to Americanize the art, and I hate that more than anything in
the world. My current kung fu teacher is american, but her
doesn't Americanize so I don't mind.;) :)

[howard]

yes there is one female instructor at this place

and there is one non-asian. but his bio says he went to asia to do his studying.

[scem0]

I'm pretty sure my instructor wen't to Asia to study too.

It worked well for him.

I would love to hear about the woman instructor :D. I wan't to
know how she teaches. I have always been infatuated with
women fighters - my favorite TV shows are Xena and Buffy.
My fav movies are the matrix, crouching tiger hidden dragon, and
Iron Monkey (All of which have women fighters).

[wdlove]

"Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" a great movie!

We had females demonstrating martial arts at Our "International Extravaganza Talent Program". I thought they were great!

[WinterMute]

The instructor mentioned in my last post is a woman, and she is indeed mighty:D

I'm one of the smallest men in our regular training group, Alison takes great delight in throwing the bigger blokes accross the dojo, it's a power thing I think;)

I'll see if I can't find a pic or two of her in action.

[howard]

while i did like crouching tiger hidden dragon ALOT! i did thought it was a little to crazy with the flying and stuff...but i did like it a lot.

[scem0]

Although I may sound slightly insane - I believe that some of
the physics defying stunts and flying are possible, to a certain
degree. I think they are possible with your energy/chi/qi/whatever-
you-want-to-call-it. My grandfather had a tai chi teafcher tell him
that the master that taught him could 'fly' like in crouching tiger
hidden dragon if he had his hand against a wall. Not for long
distances, or at a high altitude, but he defied physics.

I wouldn't believe this if I hadent:

become friends with a korean guy named Jae. He showed me
how to work on my energy. It involved moving a napkin (or any
other light weight object) by touching your cheeks, and then
bringing your hand near the object. He could move the napkin
3 times as far as would be possible with just the wind he created
with his hand. I got pretty good too. I can't really explain it in
full detail though. You kind of have to see it.
seen a lot of professional wushu videos. When watching
professional wushu experts do their tricks/jumps - you will
see what I mean. THey stay in the air longer than looks possible.
I wish I could find a video of REALLY good wushu practitioners.



I might sound insane, but I truly believe in your body having
a network of energy which you can use to do physical things.
This 'network of energy' is used in Chinese martial arts, and
even more in Chinese medical practices, like acupuncture.

God I'm wierd. :o ;) :D :D

[howard]

hmm very interesting. you know i would very much like to see some of these videos if you ever find any, or if you know of any good sites i'd love to see and read up some more

[scem0]

search for 'martial arts tricks', 'martial art trickz', or 'wushu
sampler' on limewire and search for a file that is ~9.32 MB.

There are vids on the internet, and a lot on Limewire and other
p2p networks.

[wdlove]

Originally posted by scem0
Although I may sound slightly insane - I believe that some of
the physics defying stunts and flying are possible, to a certain
degree. I think they are possible with your energy/chi/qi/whatever-
you-want-to-call-it. My grandfather had a tai chi teafcher tell him
that the master that taught him could 'fly' like in crouching tiger
hidden dragon if he had his hand against a wall. Not for long
distances, or at a high altitude, but he defied physics.

I wouldn't believe this if I hadent:

become friends with a korean guy named Jae. He showed me
how to work on my energy. It involved moving a napkin (or any
other light weight object) by touching your cheeks, and then
bringing your hand near the object. He could move the napkin
3 times as far as would be possible with just the wind he created
with his hand. I got pretty good too. I can't really explain it in
full detail though. You kind of have to see it.
seen a lot of professional wushu videos. When watching
professional wushu experts do their tricks/jumps - you will
see what I mean. THey stay in the air longer than looks possible.
I wish I could find a video of REALLY good wushu practitioners.



I might sound insane, but I truly believe in your body having
a network of energy which you can use to do physical things.
This 'network of energy' is used in Chinese martial arts, and
even more in Chinese medical practices, like acupuncture.

God I'm wierd. :o ;) :D :D

Don't be hard on yourself. I don't think you are weird. You stated the information very well indeed. The orientals have done this for 1,000's of years!

[howard]

i had a hard time finding things on acquisition so i downloaded limewire.

i didn't find the martial arts trickz one but i found a drunken boxing one that was really good. those guys are so flexible. he was bending over backwards and almost touched his head to the floor without losing his balance!

[wdlove]

Originally posted by howard
i had a hard time finding things on acquisition so i downloaded limewire.

i didn't find the martial arts trickz one but i found a drunken boxing one that was really good. those guys are so flexible. he was bending over backwards and almost touched his head to the floor without losing his balance!

Do you have a link?

[howard]

no i didn't find it on the web, just limewire

i searched for a bunch of things such as wushu martial arts and kung fu. you'll find some stuff under those.

[scem0]

yeah ive seen that one. The dude is wearing purple I think.

I have seen them all. :D. There are a ton of vids, many were
filmed at the same spot the drunken boxing video was filmed
at. Drunken boxing (or drunken kung fu, whatever you want
to call it) would be very interesting to take ;).

[howard]

yup! it was the purple outfit guy. he looks so elegant...and then he does his drunken act and he catches you off guard when all of the sudden his limbs start flayling everywhere!! its pretty cool

[scem0]

yeah. He bends pretty far backwards. I can bend almost that
far, and keep my balance, but not as far as he can. Kung Fu is
very elegant, so is Tai Chi.

Just to add a lil' something to the thread I am going to put some
of my fav kung fu movies:

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (fav movie of all time)
The Matrix (not that kung fu-y but still good)
Snake in Eagle's Shadow
Shaolin Temple 3
Once upon a time in China
Once upon a time in china II
Once upon a time in China III
Tai Chi Master
Iron Monkey (tied with the matrix for second fav movie of all time)
Drunken Master (1979 version, not the 1994 ver :))

and that's it for now.

[howard]

i've seen crouching tiger and matrix but the rest i havn't heard of. i'll try and look them up. are the other pretty rare or can you get them on dvd?

hey scem0 have you ever thought of putting a pic of a wushu guy as your tar? that would be cool if you could animate one doing like a flip or some cool move.

[scem0]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....... good idea..........

hmmmmmmm, how can I change an mpeg into an animated gif?

Well, anyways, the best source of kung fu movies is hkflix (http://hkflix.com/home.asp).

I bought a thing of 10 movies, all of which are at least decent. ;)

[howard]

awww nooooo!

did you have to scem0?

you see now your forcing me to buy kung fu dvds by putting that link up...i'm so broke!

hehe i'm just kidding around if you didn't know. that seems like an extremely thorough site for dvds...i've got a few record stores that sell all sorts of used dvds and i might look around there first because like i said, i'm broke.

my wish list just keeps growing and growing!

[scem0]

snake in eagles shadow and the 1979 version of the drunken
master, have really good kung fu, with not as much 'wire-fu'.

Tai Chi Master has a lot of 'beautiful' kung fu, whcih is very elegant,
probably because it isn't kung fu, but tai chi. ;)

[howard]

what is wire-fu?

[scem0]

crouching tiger hidden dragon.

Well, that answer should suffice. There is nothing wrong with
wire-fu, but I wouldn't suggest watching wire-fu filled movies
(like the Swordmaster series, which is very funny because it is
so corny and stupid) if you want to watch realistic kung fu.

[howard]

ok, now i get it.

yeah sometimes i've seen movies where its just been ridiculous. i like movies when they use it just a little bit just to add to the effect. but when they go crazy and fly all over the place...no

[scem0]

in 99% of all cases I would agree with you, and movies like CTHD
are that 1% exception. Movies like the 'swordmaster' series WAY
over-use wire-fu.

Here is a movie that was released in Asia but still hasen't been
ported to America because Mirimax is STUPID. I hate mirimax,
they ruin kung fu movies. THey are cutting the ending, and half
of this movie because they think americans won't like the sad
ending. Pah...... :mad:

It is called Hero and it stars Jet Li.
http://www.hkflix.com/xq/asp/filmID.527862/qx/details.htm

I am going to buy this, because who knows when it will be
released in the US...:rolleyes: :o

[kiwi_the_iwik]

OK - remember a few months ago, on this very thread (page 1, I believe...), I mentioned that I was gearing up for my first training session in nearly 8 years?!?

Well - the time came yesterday. And I'm still alive (go figure...).

I was nervous as hell when I walked into the dojo - thinking that I'd get four types of poo kicked out of me, and have to leave the mat on a stretcher...

It wasn't long before I felt comfortable - the guys there were really good, but it was like riding a bike - it all came flooding back.

I play really defensive Judo, so it goads the opposition into making stroppy mistakes (they get frustrated, so they get annoyed, and flay around a bit. Then, that's my cue to chuck 'em - works every time).

Anyway, everyone seemed to want a "piece of the new boy", so I was busy as hell - I only had to sit out a couple of times (everything went white - lack of oxygen, and being old didn't help...) - but my recovery time was good. It even surprised me!

There were even a couple of New Zealander's there - one of them recognised me as one of his old instructors (back when I was 18, I used to teach every once in a while...). He'd recently got a bronze in last years' Commonwealth Games, and was in the Sydney Olympics (got a 7th...), so he'd come a long way since I saw him as an 11 year old!

It really didn't take me long to get my timing back - my throws felt clean, and my grips were comfortable. Then, as I was trying for a left-handed Taiotoshi (turn in, plant your left foot in front of your opponents, use your arms and hip to throw your opponent over your leg...), it happened...

CRACK!

My left foot collapsed between the ankle and my little toe.

As long as I stayed warm, and put some ice on it (RICE method - Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation), I thought I'd be fine. Jeez - I even managed one more Randori session before we finished...

Then, this morning, that horrible feeling hit me - I think I've broken my foot.

Can't walk on it, it's up like a football and is 5 shades of blue. One good thing is that I'm back on shift in a couple of days time, so I might have time to recouperate.

Boo-fricken-hoo.

I REALLY don't want to go to the doctors - my wife's at work, and is going to a leaving party tonight, so I don't want to ruin her evening... Meanwhile, I've got my little 3 year old to look after today (damn, is HE going to be bored today!!). If I go out to the hospital, I'll never be able to keep an eye on my son as he runs rampant through the corridors, as I wait patiently for 3-4 hours until they tell me the bleedin' obvious...

Sheesh!

But you know what REALLY annoys me?

I was "in the zone" - my Judo felt good. And now, it looks I'll have to wait a few months before I can return to the mat I'd missed for so long.

:(

[Squire]

Man,

That really sucks about your foot. I know exactly what you mean 'cause I did the same thing. It wasn't that serious but I hurt my knee a little bit on one of my returns to the mat.

I think I'm going to try and drop a few pounds before heading back. I'm out of shape (just play hockey once a week) and terrible at judo to begin with. (And if I got hurt, my wife would have to take care of my 1-month old AND 18-month old.)

I wish you a speedy recovery.

Squire

[GeneR]

I used to take martial arts in high school (much to the dislike of my dad) for about three years. I put a punching bag in my backyard and practiced kicking and punching and flexibility. I got pretty good about the kicking and punching, and would have continued but I ended up going to college away from my Master, so I stopped attending his classes.

In college I tried a few martial arts, but some were too sports oriented and did not focus on the internal art of self-discovery. Others were fantastic and I only wish I had the time to really learn them well. These latter ones included: Aikido, Kumdo/Kendo, jujitsu, Hapkido, Hwarang-do, tae-kwon do, wing-chung and aido.

RE: Price
I think $50.00/month is reasonable nowadays. I think it's even a pretty competitive price, but if I may make a suggestion: look for a good instructor who is a good person first and foremost. I know that's reiterating a lot of what other people are saying here but I believe it's really true: The Instructor is the most important consideration. You want someone whom you will always respect and who will teach you how to do the martial arts, but also give you good examples and lessons about how to become a better person.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of instructors who teach more because it's a business to them, or they may have control issues, have favorites, etc. Luckily, my first master was more concerned about us becoming good people. I learned a lot from him and therefore am very grateful for that fact.

RE: Style
I think most of the martial arts are great. Aikido is so beautiful. I could watch it and many of these other arts for days. I wish I had more time to study these different arts. Maybe I will. I think there's so many great unexplored stories revolving around the art of doing martial arts, not necessarily using it.

There's a reason why people love doing martial arts and I think this love is one of the great untapped topics that should be explored. ;)

[scem0]

poor kiwi...... There is often a little bad in a lot of good. :)

But to add on to GeneR's comments, the teacher is one of the most, if not most important things you must look at when signing up. The style and the teacher are probably the 2 most important things (depending on the person).

At the place I used to take Elephant kung fu, ambush kung fu, and tai chi, my teacher was really into the self discovery part of kung fu, and I miss that because at my new place, we don't ever meditate. Hmmmm that makes me want to take up tai chi again. I may do that some day. Tai Chi, despite looking boring/easy, is extremely hard, but at the same time beautiful. Plus it really helps you in other martial arts. I think it even may have increased my reflexes more than the shaolin styles I have taken.

It's good to see this thread back. :)

[WinterMute]

Yes it is good to see it back, threads come and go, and some of the stuff posted here has been excellent.

Kiwi: Sounds nasty, very much like a fallen arch, try not to let it put you off though:D

Training for the world champs is going well, we have the katas down and are working on the details, the Ninindori is a bit more problematic (three players, two attack one for 40 secs, move round a place, go again:eek: ) as after the first two techniques it's almost impossible to predict what's going to happen and truly becomes a free-style event:p

Did a Kendo class last month with a friend, I'd forgotten how much fun that is...

[kiwi_the_iwik]

GODDAMMIT!!!

Just got back from the hospital - I snapped the 5th Metatarsel at the joint: 6 weeks in a cast, regular trips to the fracture clinic...

Life's a bitch...

Now I have to go into work as an editor instead of as a cameraman (I always wanted to get around to learning how to edit - I suppose it's as good a time as ever to learn!). I'm aiming to get the cast off late June - I've already put my name down to film Glastonbury 2003, and I don't want to miss it (the Foo Fighters, Eminem and Garbage are due to play - and rumour has it that the Rolling Stones will be on too...).

Bummer that I won't be able to get back to Judo training for at least 2 months, though...

I'm really pissed.

:mad:

[wdlove]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
GODDAMMIT!!!

Just got back from the hospital - I snapped the 5th Metatarsel at the joint: 6 weeks in a cast, regular trips to the fracture clinic...

Life's a bitch...

Now I have to go into work as an editor instead of as a cameraman (I always wanted to get around to learning how to edit - I suppose it's as good a time as ever to learn!). I'm aiming to get the cast off late June - I've already put my name down to film Glastonbury 2003, and I don't want to miss it (the Foo Fighters, Eminem and Garbage are due to play - and rumour has it that the Rolling Stones will be on too...).

Bummer that I won't be able to get back to Judo training for at least 2 months, though...

I'm really pissed.

:mad: ;)

Sorry to hear about your fracture, any pain? If you are on any narcotics ask your doctor about a stool softner and be sure to drink plenty of fluids. Narcotics if used regulary can be constipating.

kiwi_the_iwik, you should take an optimistic look on your situation. The experience as an editor could open up great new opportunities. Sometimes great things come out of adversity. It is all on how you approach your situation! Good luck!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Nah - no pain. Thanks for asking, though. The doctor gave me some pain killers, but I don't think I'll need 'em - I'll do it in the "raw", so-to-speak...

This editing thing is just an interim position - I've been a cameraman all my working life (17 years...), so I'll doubt whether it'll influence my career. It WILL, however, help cut down my shooting ratios, and maybe even make me THAT more creative.

It's always nice to add another feather to your cap, at the end of the day...

;)

[scem0]

I think it would be proper to announce my new 'tar in this thread ;)

<-------------

Pretty cool, huh?

I feel for you kiwi. I have never broken a bone, but I know what if feels like to be kept from something you love. For me it was diving. I used to dive on a pre-national level, and I quit becasue it was taking too much of a toll on my life in general. I still miss diving... :(

[wdlove]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Nah - no pain. Thanks for asking, though. The doctor gave me some pain killers, but I don't think I'll need 'em - I'll do it in the "raw", so-to-speak...

This editing thing is just an interim position - I've been a cameraman all my working life (17 years...), so I'll doubt whether it'll influence my career. It WILL, however, help cut down my shooting ratios, and maybe even make me THAT more creative.

It's always nice to add another feather to your cap, at the end of the day...

;)

You are like my father, the stoic type. I've never personally had a broken bone. I'm hoping that with this study I'm volunteering r/t thge study calcium absoption, that I will to continue to prevent weak bones!

[GeneR]

Scem0: Your new 'tar.
That's a kewl 'tar. I AM envious. Did you do that?

kiwi: Dang.
Tough break (no pun intended! :D) I think judo throws are some of the most fun things to do in martial arts. I feel for you.

[WinterMute]

Christ, take the painkillers... there's nothing as miserable as the pain of a healing bone, I've broken a few, (well, lots actually) and I've hated everyone of them, it's that deep itching ache that you can't quite scratch that really gets to you.

I was watching the European Judo champs on Eurosport last night, it strikes me that any martial art in full-contact competition gets reduced to a few brutalities, and all the real good stuff goes out of the window. Aikido in competition is a muserable shadow of it's true self.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Yeah - I hear ya. Judo's literal translation is "the gentle way". Bollix. It's completely the opposite in competition - I think that the old skill and class that was developed by Jigoro Kano in the mid-1800's (which was the cornerstone of Judo) has been lost by the scruffiness, roughness, and the occasionally BORING passages of play, that were created with tournaments.

Don't get me wrong, though - I used to love a good fight on the mat (and still do... when I'm 100%, that is!).

I watched a bit of the European Champs the other night - when I used to compete, we never had those blue suits. I've gotta say that it really adds a bit of "One-Day International Cricket" feeling to the event.

The Ippon's didn't really seem that clean or controlled for that matter. Our technical ability quite often gave us a huge advantage - if you couldn't throw someone correctly, not only are you putting yourself in danger of injury, but you're also endangering your opponent.

Also - there's nothing like pulling off a spectacularly clean throw. People talk about those ones LONG after the event, and there's absolutely NO doubt about who the winner is.

;)

I'd like to go back to Kata training though - just to get my technical ability dusted down from years of storage! It'd be nice to get graded, too, just to see whether I've still got the aptitude...

When I first started doing my Kata years ago, I even implemented some of the techniques into my competitions - and when done correctly, it was virtually impossible to counter them. Nowadays, Judo players tend to walk around hugging each other, waiting for their opponent to put a foot wrong, cross their feet when they walk, or turn in for a forward technique so they can counter it. Negative Judo. The most important thing is to move your opponent in the direction in which YOU want them to move.

Newton's 3rd Law of Motion (from memory) states that for every action there will be an "equal and opposite reaction". Then the same can be said in Judo. Pull someone in one direction, they'll want to go in the OPPOSITE direction to avoid falling over. That's where combination techniques come into play - everyone seemed to be wanting to go for the "Big Throw", and not setting up their opponent with minor techniques. i.e. push them backwards so they'll make an unconscious effort to go forwards, AND THEN throw them.

Aikido uses this to great advantage - that's what makes it such an art to watch. The attacking player basically goads their opponent into moving in directions unintentially, and then WALLOP!

Style...

Sorry to rant like that. But although I realised I wasn't anywhere NEAR as fit as some of those players I trained with the other night, they all got thrown by me because I moved them where I wanted them to go. I watch it a lot on TV - I saw it in the Olympics, and lately at the Euros.

It didn't help that a) I'm naturally left-handed, and b) I spend a lot of time grip-fighting - it really pisses them off...

Although I'm naturally a defensive player, I always am looking to set up my opponent. Unfortunately, tournament Judo today just seems like ballroom dancing in pyjamas...

:rolleyes:

What a great spectator sport... ...not!

[scem0]

Originally posted by GeneR
Scem0: Your new 'tar.
That's a kewl 'tar. I AM envious. Did you do that?

kiwi: Dang.
Tough break (no pun intended! :D) I think judo throws are some of the most fun things to do in martial arts. I feel for you.

Nah, I didn't do it. I searched for an animated gif of fighting, because gollum was starting to annoy me, and I found this. Photoshop (Well imageready, actually) helped get it down to under 20k.

[GeneR]

What I like about throwing people in martial arts, is when you're there sensing the flow of the other person's momentum. It's almost like tai chi in a way, because it's like the momentum -- the energy -- is like the currents of the ocean or river and you're part of that flow, and you can feel the other person's center of gravity and as it moves and gains momentum, and you can allow your center of gravity to flow into a lower stationary position to allow them to topple themselves over you. Like two water drops flowing past each other in the vastness of the ocean.

To me, that's very zen.

It's like when you're on a golf course and swinging the club and you hit that sweet spot and you hear the ring of the club or on a tennic court swinging the racket and you hit that great shot over the net and you know it was so effortless. What is it when we do that right?

Is it...joy?

:D

Now, I want to go back and take more martial arts classes!!! YEAH! :D

[WinterMute]

Yup, there's nothing quite like getting a really good technique on and hearing the body hit the mat:D

It's an unconcious thing, body memory my wife calls it, she was a pro dancer for years, and learning difficult choreo is the same as an Aikido technique (or any other martial system;) ), if you think about it too much it never happens, if you let it flow, eventually it will work, and work well. In the end, all the devastating throws and locks come down to physics, it works because its a law that helps out (usually gravity and/or momentum).

Take a look at the pic I posted earlier in the thread, that's all about timing and momentum, then it's just gravity, as Ian is finding out:D :D

Aikido works so well at the level of reaction and blending, in fact the softer you are in the face of the attack, the more effective the defence is.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

You guys are absolutely right. The throws you think about you inevitably screw up. It's the unconscious ones that look the most spectacular, and feel the most intuitive.

If you play instinctively, you get a much more even balance and flow to your technique. That's when the HOURS of Uchi-komi (repetitive turning in for a throw) finally become worth the hassle - when your body gets "muscle memory", and automatically adjusts to compensate for your opponent's reactions.

I still remember the two most instinctive wins that I had -

One was when the fight just started - the NZ Nationals in 1987: we'd bowed, and the guy just ran STRAIGHT for me. The next thing I remember was when he was over my head, going towards the mat in a perfect arc. Ippon in less than a second.

Another was when I was fighting a Japanese player in the final of the South Pacific Invitation - down a Wazari, and losing badly. This guy was all over me like a wet rash. And then, with 7 seconds to go, he walked right into a footsweep - Okuri-Ashi-Harai - where I swept his right foot with the instep of my left foot, connecting his at the ankle, which in turn slapped into his left foot, and at the same time, whilst gripping his left jacket sleeve with my right hand and right lapel with my left, made a turning motion as if grabbing a car steering wheel and turning it left...

His body was at right-angles to the mat, and was a little over waist-high. I certainly remember the impact then, and the reaction of the crowd...

...nice memories.

BTW - just went to the Fracture clinic... 3 weeks in a cast, then 2 months before I can go back on the mat...

Bugger.

Still - at least I can work on my fitness before I go back!

;)

[GeneR]

One of the martial arts I took a while back involved a lot of flips and throws and was my first real experience working with flips. It also involved lot of joint locks, and flips. I remember one time when I was over at the main dojo working out one instructor decided to show us how to do a particularly unusual wrist lock that would allow one to begin locking up the opponent's wrist, elbow, and finally his shoulder. This also involved rotating into and under the opponent's forward advance so as to force the opponent to react to the joint manipulation.

When the joint locks of both the wrist and the elbows were done properly the opponent could be controlled by a slight manipulation of his/her wrist. But if the wrist was swung a certain way, the opponent would be forced into a flip or risk dislocation of his shoulder.

We practiced and practiced for quite a while, not realizing how important each angle was to technique, when finally, the instructor stepped in and demonstrated using me as the guinea pig. :o It hurt like hell to have your wrist and elbows locked up, and the pain shooting up your arm, effectively paralyzing you.

But with that and a quick angular rotation of my wrist, I found myself flying in the air and before I knew it I was down on the mat with stars in my eyes.

Later, he allowed us to try it and at one point I got it right. How, I don't know. Suddenly, I found that my opponent was up in the air, and then crashing onto the mat, and it was not even a matter of strong-arming him but rather using technique instead of brute strength to neutralize my opponent.

Suffice to say I was rather stunned again.

Later we began to do judo-type throws and it began to dawn on me how important it is to have the right technique, the right angles, the right positioning. When it all comes together, it's quite a magical experience. To practice breaking down each part of the body to do a particular function did not seem very effective. It helped to some extent when learning the technique. But allowing the entire body learn the technique in an immersive manner seemed to work better.

I still relish those moments when I was able to pull off a clean throw. It really does make me want to take up martial arts again. Maybe I'll get back to it after I've limbered up again. heh. :D