360: I hate you MS

[mkubal]

Figured I'd share with the boards that I'll be replacing my xbox 360 for the second time now. Not that anyone really cares, but I am so pissed at Microsoft right now. This is perhaps the shoddiest piece of hardware I've ever owned.

I got my first replacement a few months ago and it worked very well until recently when I started to get scrambled video accompanied by a system freeze. About a week ago it was diagnosed as a problem with the hard drive. Today I got the new drive, which was ever so gracefully "chucked" into my garage by UPS. Started it up, went to retrieve my gamer tag, freeze. Restart, three red rings of me wanting to stab Microsoft in the jaw.

MS lackey tells me I need to replace it. Luckily I'm just under the warranty period. Less than luckily, the turnaround for the replacement is 3 weeks.

We are also now unable to confirm whether or not the HD is actually broken. This may or may not result on the loss of my game saves. So when I get the new 360 I'm supposed to try the old one and hope things go well. If not I get to call and and get another HD replacement. One thing's for sure though, MS does not care about the fate of my game saves. They suggested that I buy a memory card and hope that the HD functions long enough to rescue them. Fun times.

I hate you MS. I just wanted to play some Pacman. I know the controls suck, but I still wanted to play it. I was even going to buy Dead Rising. I'll probably just skip it now seeing as how it will be Madden time when I finally receive my new shoddy piece of hardware.


Other points of interest:

1. The padding for the HD was almost nonexistent, consisting of a small bit bubble wrap strewn about in a box that was way too large for the shipped item. This made the chucking of the hard drive even worse

2. The replacement 360 I get will be brand new according to the MS rep. I asked if he meant "new" as in "refurbished" or "new" as in "brand new" and he claimed the latter. Anyone have any insight on getting a new box on round three?

3. I hate UPS. I think a great ad for a competing shipping service would be to show a UPS guy transporting your package by flinging it as far as he can, running after it, and then repeating, perhaps throwing in a few decent kicks as well. In fact, that has the potential to be the best Superbowl commercial ever depending on the acting talent.

4. If MS made it possible to backup your game saves to your computer or a server somewhere, losing saves wouldn't be much of a problem. How hard would it be to implement this?

/Rant

[coffey7]

My is fine. At least its not like the ps2, that needed to be serviced every month.

[MacRumorUser]

I know your pissed off, but have you ever rang up apple with a ****ed up shoddy piece of kit you've just spent over 2k on? Trust me, microsoft at least sort out the problems in a resonable time span and (my many experiences with apple) your not put onto 6 different reps in india who barley speak english who cant find your customer number and repeat a set number of techincal steps even if they are totally irelevant to your problem, then bump it and give you a reference number, but when your passed up the chain after being on hold for nearly 40 minutes, the new tech guy speaks even less english and has no referece on the conversation youve just dragged out with previous customer service tech, so you have to start again and again..

Finally when you get what you want a reference you ring up aftercare only to find the reference they gave you is wrong and they have to put you back on....

aghhhhhh

we can all RANT!!! **** happens, it's life.

Your getting a new xbox 360, its annoying but hey its not the end of the world. Microsoft are sorting the problem.

[mkubal]

Your getting a new xbox 360, its annoying but hey its not the end of the world. Microsoft are sorting the problem.

Haha! I certainly have bad stories about Apple Care. Like the time they had to replace the mid-plane(sp?) on an iMac. I gave up trying to figure out when it would be repaired after the supervisor told me that he didn't feel like finding out when the part would come in from China and if I didn't like it it was tough crap. I paraphrased that conversation, but that was the gist.

I don't really have a problem with MS service. They've been fairly helpful. I just want a machine that works. I rarely play the thing as it is due to a lack of games that interest me. I'd like it to work in the few hours I play it every week. I don't think it's too much to ask.

[plinkoman]

3. I hate UPS. I think a great ad for a competing shipping service would be to show a UPS guy transporting your package by flinging it as far as he can, running after it, and then repeating, perhaps throwing in a few decent kicks as well. In fact, that has the potential to be the best Superbowl commercial ever depending on the acting talent.

I couldn't agree with you more about ups. Would it have been that difficult for them to set the package down instead of tossing it? :rolleyes: They do **** like that to me all the time.

As for your gamesaves; I'd be pissed as hell if I ever lost my gamesaves. If you get a new working 360, and you can recover your saves, good; if not, I would raise hell with microsoft. I could live with having a defective piece of hardware that needed to be replaced; but loosing gamesaves is totally unacceptable in my opinion. They charge $100 for that little 20GB hard drive as an add on. For that price, it better be damn reliable.

[mkubal]

They charge $100 for that little 20GB hard drive as an add on. For that price, it better be damn reliable.

Exactly. And while mine might actually be working, I just can't believe they'd suggest I buy a different overpriced accessory to make up for an unacceptable failure on their part.

Unacceptable in the sense that (a) a $100 20 gig HD shouldn't fail this easily and (b) there should be a better backup solution than buying another accessory.

Can I backup with a USB thumb drive? I'm pretty sure I can't. How hard would that be to implement? Not hard at all. They just want me to buy another accessory. They don't give a crap if I lose all of my game saves.

[Afro1989]

Tomorrow I will be sending my third 360 console back because of hardware failure. I will be receiving my fourth console. Let me repeat that. My fourth console. It's probably the worst situation I've ever been in because I can't even add up the amount of hours of fun I've had with it. It's a love-hate situation and it's really killing me.

[Judo]

As for your gamesaves; I'd be pissed as hell if I ever lost my gamesaves. If you get a new working 360, and you can recover your saves, good; if not, I would raise hell with microsoft.

Are you serious? And what are they going to do about it? Everyone knows you should back up important data. Is it anyones fault other than the user if they don't backup?

[AP_piano295]

Figured I'd share with the boards that I'll be replacing my xbox 360 for the second time now. Not that anyone really cares, but I am so pissed at Microsoft right now. This is perhaps the shoddiest piece of hardware I've ever owned.

I got my first replacement a few months ago and it worked very well until recently when I started to get scrambled video accompanied by a system freeze. About a week ago it was diagnosed as a problem with the hard drive. Today I got the new drive, which was ever so gracefully "chucked" into my garage by UPS. Started it up, went to retrieve my gamer tag, freeze. Restart, three red rings of me wanting to stab Microsoft in the jaw.

MS lackey tells me I need to replace it. Luckily I'm just under the warranty period. Less than luckily, the turnaround for the replacement is 3 weeks.

We are also now unable to confirm whether or not the HD is actually broken. This may or may not result on the loss of my game saves. So when I get the new 360 I'm supposed to try the old one and hope things go well. If not I get to call and and get another HD replacement. One thing's for sure though, MS does not care about the fate of my game saves. They suggested that I buy a memory card and hope that the HD functions long enough to rescue them. Fun times.

I hate you MS. I just wanted to play some Pacman. I know the controls suck, but I still wanted to play it. I was even going to buy Dead Rising. I'll probably just skip it now seeing as how it will be Madden time when I finally receive my new shoddy piece of hardware.


Other points of interest:

1. The padding for the HD was almost nonexistent, consisting of a small bit bubble wrap strewn about in a box that was way too large for the shipped item. This made the chucking of the hard drive even worse

2. The replacement 360 I get will be brand new according to the MS rep. I asked if he meant "new" as in "refurbished" or "new" as in "brand new" and he claimed the latter. Anyone have any insight on getting a new box on round three?

3. I hate UPS. I think a great ad for a competing shipping service would be to show a UPS guy transporting your package by flinging it as far as he can, running after it, and then repeating, perhaps throwing in a few decent kicks as well. In fact, that has the potential to be the best Superbowl commercial ever depending on the acting talent.

4. If MS made it possible to backup your game saves to your computer or a server somewhere, losing saves wouldn't be much of a problem. How hard would it be to implement this?

/Rant

Ok i've got an idea for the UPS comercial.

For a start Q opera music

-Close up of box with prominent fragile sighn across the side being punted across the yard

-Slow mo see it flying as ups man with baseball bat chases it lands and he jumps on it biteing off a sizeable portion of the box.

-Proceeds to kick and beat it around the yard

-ups man runs away

-come out of slow mo

-ups man throws a rock breaks the house window

-screeching tires and smoke

-birds chirping

-gradual zoom out to sho the street/neighborhood

-in yellow writeing across the screen

DHL a return to customer service

[Symtex]

Tomorrow I will be sending my third 360 console back because of hardware failure. I will be receiving my fourth console. Let me repeat that. My fourth console. It's probably the worst situation I've ever been in because I can't even add up the amount of hours of fun I've had with it. It's a love-hate situation and it's really killing me.

WTF are you doing with them ? I got mine at launch and I think it only frozed once. Sometimes on weekend , I can do 8hrs play marathon without a hitch. I suspect you must be doing something wrong to them.

[plinkoman]

Are you serious? And what are they going to do about it? Everyone knows you should back up important data. Is it anyones fault other than the user if they don't backup?

a gamesave is a bit different than files on a computer. I always backup my computer, but why the hell would I or should I need to backup a gamesave?? that is ridiculous. on all my consoles (2600, nes, snes, genesis, n64, cube, gb, gbc, gba, ds), I have never in my life lost saved data.

besides, failed hard drive or not, the data is still on there, and when it comes to gamesaves on a game console, I certainly would expect any manufacturer to try to retreive the data if it's their faulty hardware that caused me to loose it. I wouldn't call up apple if I lost files on my powerbook, but like I said, that's different.

[AP_piano295]

a gamesave is a bit different than files on a computer. I always backup my computer, but why the hell would I or should I need to backup a gamesave?? that is ridiculous. on all my consoles (2600, nes, snes, genesis, n64, cube, gb, gbc, gba, ds), I have never in my life lost saved data.

besides, failed hard drive or not, the data is still on there, and when it comes to gamesaves on a game console, I certainly would expect any manufacturer to try to retreive the data if it's their faulty hardware that caused me to loose it. I wouldn't call up apple if I lost files on my powerbook, but like I said, that's different.

I think he was being sarcastic....i think

[greatdevourer]

I know your pissed off, but have you ever rang up apple with a ****ed up shoddy piece of kit you've just spent over 2k on? Trust me, microsoft at least sort out the problems in a resonable time span and (my many experiences with apple) your not put onto 6 different reps in india who barley speak english who cant find your customer number and repeat a set number of techincal steps even if they are totally irelevant to your problem, then bump it and give you a reference number, but when your passed up the chain after being on hold for nearly 40 minutes, the new tech guy speaks even less english and has no referece on the conversation youve just dragged out with previous customer service tech, so you have to start again and again..

Finally when you get what you want a reference you ring up aftercare only to find the reference they gave you is wrong and they have to put you back on....

aghhhhhh

we can all RANT!!! **** happens, it's life.

Your getting a new xbox 360, its annoying but hey its not the end of the world. Microsoft are sorting the problem. Ugh. Applecare. Took 'em 2 whole months to fix my PB! 2 months without my laptop!

Are you serious? And what are they going to do about it? Everyone knows you should back up important data. Is it anyones fault other than the user if they don't backup? Backup to what, may I ask? The only accessories that can do such things are highly unlikely to be allowed by M$, let alone condoned

[seenew]

GOD!
I hate UPS, too!
I ordered an internal HDD and a case for it, to put together an external drive myself; spent about $170 on Newegg-- the drive ships separate from the case, and arrives first. UPS LEAVE IT IN THE RAIN outside my garage. I was home the whole day; no one knocked, no one rang the bell.
Today, they drop off the case (once again, outside, luckily no rain) and then were supposed to drop off my cable release for my 350D, but since it required a signature, they took it back to the UPS store.
Again-- NO KNOCK. NO RING.
I call UPS, and they said that was the SECOND time he'd tried to drop it off, and I said "that's complete ********, I'm not back in school yet, I was home all day today and yesterday, your guy never tried to get me to come to the door. Now I've got a wet hard drive and I have to spend gas money to drive into town to pick up another package?!"

"Well sir, I guess you'll have to tell him to knock louder next time."
"NO! THAT'S YOUR JOB. YOU WORK FOR ME. I PAY YOU. YOU TELL YOUR MORON DRIVER TO DO HIS DAMN JOB. I'll come tomorrow for the package, and I want my shipping refunded for your errors."
"Sir, I don't think I can do that."
"I'll be in tomorrow."

GOD. I am FED UP with UPS. This is like the fifth time they've done this crap. I try to use FedEx, but sometimes it's not offered; and they're usually just as bad. Actually, I've had best luck with USPS...

[gavd]

WTF are you doing with them ? I got mine at launch and I think it only frozed once. Sometimes on weekend , I can do 8hrs play marathon without a hitch. I suspect you must be doing something wrong to them.

Unless you're being sarcastic and I'm missing it, that statement implies that no system should ever break just because some others work OK. All products have the odd one that goes wrong for whatever reason. Unfortunately...

[Mord]

my 360 is perfect, it has once crashed once when it was covered completely and had no airflow, (my friend walked in the room and dropped his jacket on it without me noticeing.)

[the kid 05]

4. If MS made it possible to backup your game saves to your computer or a server somewhere, losing saves wouldn't be much of a problem. How hard would it be to implement this?

/Rant

this will solve your losing saves problem :) or just don't send them your hdd, i didn't when mine broke but **knocks on wood** since then i haven't had too again

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7671575&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat97400050025&id=1134701971317

[steamboat26]

thats what happens when you rush a console, we saw it with the PS2 in a major way, and know we are starting to see it with the 360. Go nintendo, their hardware is solid.

[Abulia]

Just a few points.

1. It's a game machine, not the end of the world. If it's that upsetting, return/sell the unit and be done with it. You don't need that kind of stress in your life, I'm guessing.

2. I lost my game saves due to an early (launch window) problem importing XBL accounts to the 360. Took MS a week to resolve. They gave all of us affected 1600 MS points for the hassle.

3. The 360 hard drives are 2.5" laptop drives. They're not made by MS. If they die that's bad luck to be sure, but it's just like if the internal drive on an Apple Mini died.

4. The 360 USB ports are read-only. Sure, you can get a thumdrive but you won't be able to write to it.

5. I've had more problems with Apple products and Apple technical support/customer service by several orders of magnitude than I have with MS.

Of course, were my 360 to die tomorrow, perhaps I'd be singing a different tune. Best of luck! :)

[Sdashiki]

3. I hate UPS. I think a great ad for a competing shipping service would be to show a UPS guy transporting your package by flinging it as far as he can, running after it, and then repeating, perhaps throwing in a few decent kicks as well. In fact, that has the potential to be the best Superbowl commercial ever depending on the acting talent.

/Rant


i believe Ace Ventura Pet Detective's first 10 minutes would cover that nicely.

[toomuchstereo]

Currentlly on my 4th 360 due to hardware failure. I've been playing games since the atari 2600, and this is the first system I have had to send back for any reason.

[sb58]

my 360 works great. no problems. Only problem i had was with Madden 06 but that problem was with the game not the system.

[KafkaWasRight]

Ugg. Reading all this has me a bit worried. I'm currently waiting for the coffin to send my first 360 back. It should have been here already, so I'm about to call Msoft to see if they can track it. I'm hoping they can tell me something, since they've been very helpful so far.
I've never had much of a problem with UPS. The regular delivery guy in my old neighborhood was really reliable and friendly. When I send anything, though, it's through DHL. About a year ago I was hit by a cab -hard- while walking and a DHL driver hopped out of his truck, called the cops and ambulance, and helped restrain the driver who was trying to flee the scene. That made a pretty darn good impression on me.

[mkubal]

Just a few points.


It's not that upsetting to me really. I know I came off that way in the OP, but I'm not obsessed with playing games. It was a one time rant, I had to get it off my chest.

I think if it fails on me again I'll probably sell it. Not because I'm angry about it, but because I play so infrequently, I want a machine that works in the few hours I manage to play every week. It simply won't be worth my time to fix something like that. I'll just wait a year and see who's in the best position of the big 3.

Also, I am in no way trying to compare this to Apple service/support. I know from personal experience what a pain in the ass they can be. MS support has been very easy to deal with. Excluding the occasional Indian tech support, of course.

this will solve your losing saves problem or just don't send them your hdd, i didn't when mine broke but **knocks on wood** since then i haven't had too again


Is that Mac compatible? I only see mention of "PCs."

Currentlly on my 4th 360 due to hardware failure. I've been playing games since the atari 2600, and this is the first system I have had to send back for any reason.

I'm in the same situation, minus the Atari 2600. I'm not that old. ;)

i believe Ace Ventura Pet Detective's first 10 minutes would cover that nicely.

I've seen the movie, but I don't recall the scene. Perhaps it was in my subconscious.

thats what happens when you rush a console, we saw it with the PS2 in a major way, and know we are starting to see it with the 360. Go nintendo, their hardware is solid.

I'm not sure it's related to rushing the console so much as the lowest bidder on labor is putting together parts from the lowest bidder on hardware manufacturing. Shoddy build quality is all it is, in my opinion.

[mkubal]

I've never had much of a problem with UPS. The regular delivery guy in my old neighborhood was really reliable and friendly.

The throwing of packages into my garage is a recent trend. They used to ring the doorbell and leave the package at the door, now I find packages laying around in the garage. Probably a new driver. What's strange though is that it's arguably a longer walk to my garage than the front door. Maybe he's worried about leaving things at the front door. Or maybe he's just taking a beer from the fridge in the garage. :D

[MacRumorUser]

Datel XSATA device, which sits between the 360 & harddrive is a handy solution for backing up demos, saves, vids etc....

It works on mac's too i'm told and costs less than $30

Basically allows you to read the xbox harddrive direct into your pc/mac via usb2

[bitfactory]

2. The replacement 360 I get will be brand new according to the MS rep. I asked if he meant "new" as in "refurbished" or "new" as in "brand new" and he claimed the latter. Anyone have any insight on getting a new box on round three?

Refurb. The ppl who answer the phones there are clueless. It's almost ALWAYS a refurb. What do you think they do with all those defective machines? It's one huge cycle of defective -> repair -> restock -> resend.

I got mine at Costco, so when it kept freezing I could either wait 3-4 weeks or just take it back to Costco and exchange it. I exchanged it - let MS eat that.

I've had a lot of fun with the 360, but quality control was crap - and sorry to all the apologists, but 3-4 week wait to get your hardware back is crap. They should send you a replacement with a credit-card # deposit. They aren't repairing and sending back your same machine anyway - why the 3-4 week? Because there's so many coming in.

With that said, I'm psyched for CoD3 this fall.

[Symtex]

Unless you're being sarcastic and I'm missing it, that statement implies that no system should ever break just because some others work OK. All products have the odd one that goes wrong for whatever reason. Unfortunately...

He must have some major electricty problem in his house to burn 4 X360. The OP is implying that X360 is a piece of crap that breaks. It's not the case. Sometime must be wrong in his setup to cause the X360 to break.

[mkaake]

He must have some major electricty problem in his house to burn 4 X360. The OP is implying that X360 is a piece of crap that breaks. It's not the case. Sometime must be wrong in his setup to cause the X360 to break.

You know, it makes me pretty upset when I hear people act like this - since your 360 has no problems, obviously there are no 360 with problems, right? So of course, in turn, it's obvious that the OP is at fault.

Forget the fact that there are plenty of people who are having this issue - multiple bad 360's - not just on these forums, but elsewhere as well. Ever figure it might have something to do with all of the replacements for bad 360's coming from a stockpile of refurbed (and thus at least once broken already) 360's?

People may not always be smart, but that doesn't mean they're dumb - the people on these forums who have had issues with their 360's know how to treat electronics. Who is it - crochaor (or something like that) who's on #6 or #7 right now? He keeps it as static free as possible, in a 65 degree room, with fans assisting with the cooling? People who have never had issues with their computers or *several* other consoles in their house are suddenly tech dumb because they have a failing 360?

Of course, even if that was the case, don't you think that there's something wrong with the product requiring that much more care and attention than *any other consumer electronics product they have in their house*?

Sorry for the rant, but I get really tired of people accusing people with problems of being dumb, when it's what appears to be a somewhat common hardware failure. Just because your machine hasn't failed doesn't mean other's won't or can't. And it usually comes down to an attitude of elitism or just plain fanboyism.

Grr.

<edit> this wasn't directed entirely at you, but rather at the gobs of people who have this attitude...

[KafkaWasRight]

The throwing of packages into my garage is a recent trend. They used to ring the doorbell and leave the package at the door, now I find packages laying around in the garage. Probably a new driver. What's strange though is that it's arguably a longer walk to my garage than the front door. Maybe he's worried about leaving things at the front door. Or maybe he's just taking a beer from the fridge in the garage. :D
Heh, sounds like the regular post office here in Chicago! I had an old analog synthesizer shipped to me that was "lost" for a month before it magically appeared again in my local branch. At least UPS tries to deliver their packages! :)
So while I was on the phone with Microsoft, the UPS guy drove up. I'm about to walk the box down to the UPS Store, cross my fingers, and hope for the best...

[huck500]

on all my consoles (2600, nes, snes, genesis, n64, cube, gb, gbc, gba, ds), I have never in my life lost saved data.

How exactly did you save games on the 2600... because I might have finished ET if I could have saved my game...:rolleyes: Weren't the SNES and Genesis the first to have save chips on the carts?

Everyone spend $20 and get the intercooler, seriously. My 360 has never frozen and is cool to the touch after hours of playing.

Edit: To Makaake: I'm not blaming anyone for having a broken 360, although 6 in a row seems a little unlikely...

[Cygnus311]

Only problem I've had with my 360 was believing the reviews and expecting Tomb Raider to maybe be fun. It wasn't.

I even leave i ton accidentally sometimes for a couple hours. One thing you may not have thought about...make sure you don't have another device like a surround sound receiver on a shelf directly beneath it. Some devices like this blow heat out the top so this set up would heat the bottom of your 360 assuming you keep it sideways (like you should). Give it plenty of air on all sides.

[MS bulldog]

is it possible for ms to release a firmware update to assist in the cooling? didn't apple just do that?

[jaw04005]

I've had a bad experience with my 360 also. It died after applying the Spring Update from XBL a week after I bought it. I had to call Microsoft, wait on hold for 40 minutes, and request a box to be shipped. They refused to ship the box express, and I ended up getting the box almost 2 weeks to day I called. I shipped the 360 out the next day, and received a refurbished unit (manufactured in November 05) with scratches and a broken door (that protects the USB ports) back almost 3 weeks after I sent the unit off. Apparently, they were having a "backlog" of repairs (so the tech said.)

Recently, I tried to purchase an extended warranty on the device. Of course, you can't do that over the Internet. I again had to call up MS, wait on hold 60 minutes, and purchase it through the representative. Although I purchased the extended warrranty a few days ago, the rep told me not to expect any type of proof of purchase or paperwork for the next 30 to 45 days (processing time.)

As soon as I receive the paperwork, it's off to eBay for 360 and I'm not looking back. I own an NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2, and they all are still in great operating condition (with no repairs, ever).

[2nyRiggz]

Only problem I'm having with my 360 is its a dust whore.......collecting the stuff by the handfull......One night my machine did make a "shut me the hell off" sound....but it never happen again.






Bless

[mkaake]

How exactly did you save games on the 2600... because I might have finished ET if I could have saved my game...:rolleyes: Weren't the SNES and Genesis the first to have save chips on the carts?

Everyone spend $20 and get the intercooler, seriously. My 360 has never frozen and is cool to the touch after hours of playing.

Edit: To Makaake: I'm not blaming anyone for having a broken 360, although 6 in a row seems a little unlikely...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191156

Intercooler in a 65 degree room. He's waiting for #6 right now, but hasn't updated in about a month now.

Anyway, I guess my point is, there is faulty hardware out there... just like there's a lot of non-faulty hardware out there. No reason to call B.S. (again, not directed at you) because someone else is having an issue that you're not...

[Symtex]

You know, it makes me pretty upset when I hear people act like this - since your 360 has no problems, obviously there are no 360 with problems, right? So of course, in turn, it's obvious that the OP is at fault.

Forget the fact that there are plenty of people who are having this issue - multiple bad 360's - not just on these forums, but elsewhere as well. Ever figure it might have something to do with all of the replacements for bad 360's coming from a stockpile of refurbed (and thus at least once broken already) 360's?

People may not always be smart, but that doesn't mean they're dumb - the people on these forums who have had issues with their 360's know how to treat electronics. Who is it - crochaor (or something like that) who's on #6 or #7 right now? He keeps it as static free as possible, in a 65 degree room, with fans assisting with the cooling? People who have never had issues with their computers or *several* other consoles in their house are suddenly tech dumb because they have a failing 360?

Of course, even if that was the case, don't you think that there's something wrong with the product requiring that much more care and attention than *any other consumer electronics product they have in their house*?

Sorry for the rant, but I get really tired of people accusing people with problems of being dumb, when it's what appears to be a somewhat common hardware failure. Just because your machine hasn't failed doesn't mean other's won't or can't. And it usually comes down to an attitude of elitism or just plain fanboyism.

Grr.

<edit> this wasn't directed entirely at you, but rather at the gobs of people who have this attitude...

No offense taken. I work in CSR for the past 7 years. I heard every single story you can even think of. They always blame the manufacturer for everything. It's not always the case. Those electronice devices are very sensible to electricity fluctuation. If you have a bad electrictly coming into the X360 power supply, its not good.

The problem with the X360 is not has widespread as people as making us believe. yes, there is defective unit out there but I think the fact that MS is the manufacturer amplify that aggressivness.

[mkubal]

He must have some major electricty problem in his house to burn 4 X360. The OP is implying that X360 is a piece of crap that breaks. It's not the case. Sometime must be wrong in his setup to cause the X360 to break.

Umm, all of my other electronic devices work perfectly: 2 HD TVs, 2 Cable boxes, Tivo, Xbox (original), PS1, countless Macs.

You know, it makes me pretty upset when I hear people act like this - since your 360 has no problems, obviously there are no 360 with problems, right? So of course, in turn, it's obvious that the OP is at fault.

Agreed. I'm the person in my group of family and friends who gets asked for help with purchasing and hooking up electronics. I don't know everything about home theater setups, but I'd say my knowledge on the subject is well above average.

In my setup the 360 sits on a shelf in a large, glass, open air TV stand. The only thing below it are 360 games. Unless those are inexplicably giving off heat, I think my setup is ideal.

What's funny about the apologists is that I was almost one myself in the beginning. Back in my post history somewhere I defended MS on the 360 issues saying that it had been blown out of proportion by fanboys of other consoles. This was when the 360 first came out and a number of people on the boards had them and hadn't had any issues. The situation seems to have changed and so has my opinion.

Only problem I've had with my 360 was believing the reviews and expecting Tomb Raider to maybe be fun. It wasn't.

Hilarious. :D

I'm about to walk the box down to the UPS Store, cross my fingers, and hope for the best...

Good luck. I'm actually looking forward them throwing the new 360 in my garage whenever that gets here. Maybe MS will have me sign for it though. I can't remember how it went with the first one.

Everyone spend $20 and get the intercooler, seriously. My 360 has never frozen and is cool to the touch after hours of playing.

I refuse to buy the intercooler as my setup is ideal and so the 360 should function as it is supposed to. Getting the thing replaced is about as far out of the way I'm willing to go to get a working unit. It's at MS expense and so I'm OK with it. If they want to stop incurring that expense they can send me a box that works.

I've had a bad experience with my 360 also. It died after applying the Spring Update from XBL a week after I bought it.

That was kind of how my first one died. It was either an update or GRAW. Only MS knows.

I've never had to wait as long as you did on the phone. I've held for a few minutes at most. Ah well, good luck with your sale. I understand your position, but I'm going to give mine another chance.

[Symtex]

Umm, all of my other electronic devices work perfectly: 2 HD TVs, 2 Cable boxes, Tivo, Xbox (original), PS1, countless Macs.


Maybe you have too many devices on the same breaker. The X360 is power hungry. Just a thought. Im only giving your alternative solution you can verify on your own. Having such back luck with 5 X360 in a row is almost impossible.

[mkubal]

Maybe you have too many devices on the same breaker. The X360 is power hungry. Just a thought. Im only giving your alternative solution you can verify on your own. Having such back luck with 5 X360 in a row is almost impossible.

I think you're referring to another MR member with regards to a fifth 360. I'll be on number three.

What you mean by "almost impossible" is that it's improbable. Improbabilities are occurring around you at all times. It's improbable that any single person will leave their house at just the right moment in time to be involved in a car accident. And yet thousands of car accidents happen each day. Given a large enough sample size, the improbable can become the odds on favorite. Welcome to the chaotic world in which you live. A world where a fifth new Xbox is almost a mathematical certainty.

[Haoshiro]

Well I'm still on my first...

[kodiak]

ive got a 360 too (pretty much from launch date), and it occasionally has problems... i.e. hangs, and then refuses too boot up

fortunately, its always eventually (a couple of days sometimes) comes back - and never had the dreaded 3 red lights.


anyways, a few points:

a) those saying they havent had it and others are just unlucky/careless
becareful, there are many reports of where it just starts happening over 6 months of no problems - just because it hasnt experienced problems yet, doesnt mean it wont :(

b) cause, M$ blame overheating ... well actually people poorly ventilating
but there are lots of people contradicting this , also M$ have also given other theories/fixes (e.g. removing HD and replacing)
as i said, mine has sometimes been tempremental, so ive been able to be quite systematic, in changing location, orientation, ventilation ... and seems to make little difference.

electricity supply, like many others i run lots of a 1 pc, 1 mac permently in the house + router and other home devices 24x7 - not one has failed
so why the xbox? and if it is so power hungry and this is the failure this is still a design fault, as it operating outside acceptable household supplies.

c) game saves to HDD
- does it give the option to 'backup' to memory card?.. i keep thinking thats what i should try

of course, what i dont understand is M$ push xbox live as being the hub for the xbox (and i too think its the best thing with xbox) ,
so why dont they allow us to keep out game saves on their servers? (or at least automatically backup to it?)
.. xbox live, should be the .mac equiv.


i wouldnt be without the 360, but it does feel like something was rushed...
2 questions i wonder about:
i) will the ps3 be the same - i fear it will
ii) if my 360 packed up, would i really buy another one?!

[Symtex]

I think you're referring to another MR member with regards to a fifth 360. I'll be on number three.

What you mean by "almost impossible" is that it's improbable. Improbabilities are occurring around you at all times. It's improbable that any single person will leave their house at just the right moment in time to be involved in a car accident. And yet thousands of car accidents happen each day. Given a large enough sample size, the improbable can become the odds on favorite. Welcome to the chaotic world in which you live. A world where a fifth new Xbox is almost a mathematical certainty.

hmmm..someone must of use the improbability drive !!

[GFLPraxis]

hmmm..someone must of use the improbability drive !!

No...that would have turned the XBox 360 into a flying pink elephant, not a brick. :p

[Symtex]

No...that would have turned the XBox 360 into a flying pink elephant, not a brick. :p

I thought it was a bowl of petunia ?

[aaron.lee2006]

My is fine. At least its not like the ps2, that needed to be serviced every month.

LOL I wish I knew what you were talking about. My PS2 has got to be the most stable gaming console ever. That and Gamecube. No freezes. Only once with Killzone online but that was my network problem nothing to do with the hardware itself. Man, PS2 was amazing and still is.

[JDOG_]

Well, I'm on my third XBOX 360. My first went the way of dirty disc errors and my second one would lock up (even in the dash) making basic gaming unplayable. I must say though, as soon as they work out the kinks (which they have for the majority of the units) it's a very enjoyable console experience.

As far as PS2 goes, and claims of usability and stability I just have to laugh. I went through three of the things...two sent back to Sony for repairs when they stopped reading discs. If memory serves correctly, some shoddy software along the way would also cause lockups (GTA:Vice City).

I'm not rough with my systems, but anything that uses discs tends to have problems at one point or another...

[crachoar]

Ace Ventura UPS spoof. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqFfZs0RA4)

And you think you have it bad? Hah!

I'm going on to my sixth 360. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191156)

And I have had to deal with Indian support centers. And Microsoft is not sorting my problem. The last 'higher-up' I spoke to, vaguely threatened me with the Microsoft legal team for trying to reach XBOX Team leaders with my complaints (J, or Peter).

This is without a doubt, the most hassle I've ever had to deal with in my entire life. It really is incredible, the way they handle these situations.

The terrible phone support. The lack of padding and protection, combined with the fact they send it via UPS (which takes two weeks, each time).

So, chin up. Microsoft will send you broken refurb after broken refurb. And soon enough, maybe you'll catch up to me and we can make a club!

Worst. Quality control. Ever. I feel you.

[MacRumorUser]

And I have had to deal with Indian support centers. And Microsoft is not sorting my problem.

Oh you know Chief 'Workswithshitbox' too then :D :D :D

[crachoar]

He must have some major electricty problem in his house to burn 4 X360. The OP is implying that X360 is a piece of crap that breaks. It's not the case. Sometime must be wrong in his setup to cause the X360 to break.

No. You're wrong.

I'm going on to my sixth 360 (as mentioned before), and I'm a technology enthusiast / geek. I know how to properly cool something. I have the unit in an extremely cold A/C environment, on a hardwood table with plenty of breathing space, and an intercooler to boot. I've also tried an industrial-strength blower fan. No such luck.

My outlets are just fine. The only things running from that particular circuit are the HDTV, the 360 and the cablebox. Nothing more. The 360 is just a poorly designed thermal nightmare.

Although, half of my problems so far seem to be 'DOA' type problems with the GPU. Scrambled video signals, lockups, major graphical errors in games, etc. It may be attributed to the fact that they ship it UPS with no padding or protection!

So, just thank your lucky stars that your 360 works for you and stop trying to crap on everybody else. Because the rest of us aren't as fortunate.

[XNine]

I'm on my third 360 as well. My launch console locked up in Januuary, the replacement locked up in March, and the third unit... Well, it's lasted this long, I don't see it as failing anytime soon.

Funny though, I never had a problem with my 1.1 Xbox, or my launch PS2 console (except a small read failure, but a can of air fixed that right up.)

It's man-made, so it's never going to be perfect. Man made products always have a higher chance of failing...

[Symtex]

No. You're wrong.

I'm going on to my sixth 360 (as mentioned before), and I'm a technology enthusiast / geek. I know how to properly cool something. I have the unit in an extremely cold A/C environment, on a hardwood table with plenty of breathing space, and an intercooler to boot. I've also tried an industrial-strength blower fan. No such luck.

My outlets are just fine. The only things running from that particular circuit are the HDTV, the 360 and the cablebox. Nothing more. The 360 is just a poorly designed thermal nightmare.

Although, half of my problems so far seem to be 'DOA' type problems with the GPU. Scrambled video signals, lockups, major graphical errors in games, etc. It may be attributed to the fact that they ship it UPS with no padding or protection!

So, just thank your lucky stars that your 360 works for you and stop trying to crap on everybody else. Because the rest of us aren't as fortunate.

Excuse but I have a hard tim eto believe your story. I got plenty of friends of own a X360 and they never had such problem. you might be right, maybe the problem is with the UPS Shipping who kept damaging your X360.

did you ever replace the power supply of your X360 ? Maybe he's the one responsible for all your problem

[crachoar]

Yes, I've replaced the power supply.

Yes, I've done this. Yes, I've done that.

Moral of the story? Believe it. It's true. I'm going on to number six.


Like a moderate, religious individual, you're welcome to choose to believe what you'd like. Continue to be blind and live in a world of luxury if you prefer. Beliefs ala Carte, if you will.

Enjoy the fruits of ignorance, for it is indeed, bliss.

Me? I live in a world where my XBOX is persistantly broken. And I'm pissed.

[zap2]

Excuse but I have a hard tim eto believe your story. I got plenty of friends of own a X360 and they never had such problem. you might be right, maybe the problem is with the UPS Shipping who kept damaging your X360.

did you ever replace the power supply of your X360 ? Maybe he's the one responsible for all your problem



Clearly... because your friends have ones that work, they all work. This is what i tried to get into someones head i met during the summer. They didn't like the GameCube because they had liek 3 friends who's NGC broke ,yet when i said look at the Laser Disk problem on the PS2(which was a major problem) and xBox power cord recall, he just said he never had it happen to him, so its not going to be a bad thing about the system. People need to look at the big picture, just because you know 3 or 4 people who have working system, doesn't mean the system can't have major flaws

[Symtex]

Clearly... because your friends have ones that work, they all work. This is what i tried to get into someones head i met during the summer. They didn't like the GameCube because they had liek 3 friends who's NGC broke ,yet when i said look at the Laser Disk problem on the PS2(which was a major problem) and xBox power cord recall, he just said he never had it happen to him, so its not going to be a bad thing about the system. People need to look at the big picture, just because you know 3 or 4 people who have working system, doesn't mean the system can't have major flaws

You got me all wrong buddy. I work at customer service for a big telco. Everyday I got customer tell me about their broken this, broken that. 8hours of day of complaint. Sometime, it's our fault, Sometime we sure screwed up real bad but sometime customer are too blame. Im not saying crachoar is the one to blame. Im asking the question because I care about crachoar situation. Maybe because I work in a big corporation, it allows me to see both side of the story. I've seen my share of horrible product on the market. Maybe it I worked at Microsoft, I would have a different opinion about all this.

The system doesn't have major flaw like you are pretending. There is surely an certain % of defective unit out there. I was part of the Cord Recall for xbox but never got the replacement and yes my xbox still works. It's all depends on how you look at a situation. If I was in the same situation as crachoar, I would be wondering why in the hell I keep broken my X360. That's just my nature. Im always look at myself before pointing finger.

[ericsthename]

Well, I too have experienced a dead 360, and was altogether disappointed to get one back from MS with a tidy letter explaining that they were so kind as to ship me a "replacement unit" with different serial numbers - manufactured in october 2005. Well I was pretty choked because I paid for a new product, and if I wanted a refurb, i wouldve paid 300 at eb games instead of 499 for the new product.

The solution? go to X major electronics retailer and buy a new 360

Carefully peel off the serial number of the new unit (verrry carefully with a razor or some similar utility)

carefully remove the serial from your P.O.S. refurb

exchange serial numbers and replace all packaging as per standard


give x major electronics retailer your unwanted refurb labelled new unit back for MS to so kindly keep, and accept full refund for the purchase.


the only reason you even need to swap serials is because MS, knowing that these units were going to have some serious return/turnaround issues, has retailers scan the barcode of the hardware itself when you purchase the item. They then scan the barcode again when you go to return the box.


Well I hope i've not tipped off the authorities as to my scheming ways, but I just felt like I had been dealt some injustice recieving a refurb launch unit when i was purposely patient enough to wait for what I thought would be initial bugs to work themselves out. What do other members think of this action? too vigilante? warranted? irrational? feel free to share your opinion on this matter.

[crachoar]

That's awesome.

[Symtex]

Mod : please lock this thread.

[crachoar]

Lock it, why?

Because you are a brick wall when it comes this discussion?


You mentioned you work tech support over the phone? Is that in India? If so, how delightfully ironic.

[Mackilroy]

In case you haven't noticed, crachoar, you're being a brick wall too. ;)

How is it that you keep getting broken 360s? If so many other people can get ones that work, what forces are keeping you from doing the same?

[Symtex]

Lock it, why?

Because you are a brick wall when it comes this discussion?


You mentioned you work tech support over the phone? Is that in India? If so, how delightfully ironic.

No. Im a Canadian and work an canadian employer.

I want to lock this thread because you are post a direct insult to me which I reply. Which will only lead to flamewar. might as well lock it.

[crachoar]

Eh. I don't care enough to become involved in an 'omginternets' flamewar.

I'm over it.


How's your mum? Whatcha watchin'?

[mkubal]

Eh. I don't care enough to become involved in an 'omginternets' flamewar.

I'm over it.


How's your mum? Whatcha watchin'?

I feel your pain, crachoar. Mine is not as bad, but I feel you.

And you're right. There's no sense in trying to discuss your real life experience with the 360 if the only response you get is "you're a liar, it's your fault."

Fanboys. :rolleyes: :(

Of note, I still haven't received my coffin. Maybe I'll build myself a giant trebuchet and launch it across the Gulf to Texas. Can't be any worse than UPS.

FYI, every time a person is unable to play Madden as a result of MS' shoddy hardware, God kills a kitten. If not for me, won't you at least do it for the kittens, MS?

[Sutekidane]

Everyone knows the 360 has a lot of issues, it's common knowledge now. What do you want us to do about it?

[mkubal]

Thank you for proving that X360 are not idiot proof..


Mod : please lock this thread.

Dude, you came into a thread I started to accuse people of wrongdoing and now you want the thread locked when people show a dislike of your accusations?

You've made your opinion clear. Find another thread to crap on please.

[milo]

He must have some major electricty problem in his house to burn 4 X360. The OP is implying that X360 is a piece of crap that breaks. It's not the case. Sometime must be wrong in his setup to cause the X360 to break.

Wasn't the unreliability of the 360 pretty widespread, at least when it was first launched? I thought they had improved things, but maybe they haven't, or maybe they have a stockpile of early (or refurbed early) ones they're using as replacements.

It's just ignorant to blame the user for a product failing.

The problem with the X360 is not has widespread as people as making us believe. yes, there is defective unit out there but I think the fact that MS is the manufacturer amplify that aggressivness.

It's obviously widespread enough to get attention from the press.

The denial exhibited by some fanboys never ceases to amaze me.

[AJ Muni]

My 360 has been perfect, I love it, and I have NOT ONE complaint about it. :)

I figured I would bring something positive to this thread, because everyone seems so mad! ;)

[Abulia]

The denial exhibited by some fanboys never ceases to amaze me.
The necessity to label people a "fanboy" for expressing an opinion never ceases to amaze me. :rolleyes:

[zap2]

The system doesn't have major flaw like you are pretending.

I was part of the Cord Recall for xbox but never got the replacement and yes my xbox still .


To the first comment- If MS had to replace mass amount of 360, then there clearly is a problem. If the wasn't a problem they wouldn't offer to fix them.

to the 2nd-That what i meam just because your ONE xbox is still working, doesn't mean there wasn't a major problem! My xBox needed the recall.. does that mean 50% of xBox did need the recall and 50% didn't?

[mkubal]

Figured I'd revive the thread to tell you about the replacement I just received from MS:

IT'S FREAKING BROKEN! Plugged it in, bought Madden, ready to get my game on. "Please insert this disc into an Xbox 360." Disc drive won't read discs.

Lovely.

I'll beat a few of you to the punch with your responses:

1) No one cares. Get over it.

2) It's your fault.

If your response is either of the above, please move along. Nothing to see here.

I'm on the phone with MS right now. India is currently "escalating my call" to a supervisor, which I'm hoping is (a) someone I can understand and (b) able to provide me with a working 360 post-haste.

I'm seriously considering the serial number sticker swap from a new 360 at Target. Someone talk me into it, please.

developing.....

[mkubal]

Ok, so I just got off the phone with supervisor Jeff. Jeff apparently has no more power to make things right than India's tech support does. The only option, according to Jeff, is to send things in for repair. It doesn't matter how many 360s break on you, you will never get a new one and they will never give you a "loaner," as he called it. Meaning they'd send me the soon to break refurb and I'd send them my broken box back.

So Xbox #3 is headed back to McAllen, TX. But it's better than that. Jeff could not just send me the shipping label to use on the box I just received. I have to wait for the new empty box. A waste of my time, MS' money, and a "good enough" box, which will find its way into a landfill. I've had no problem getting shipping labels from other companies.

I told the guy that I'd be willing to do some consulting work for MS on their shipping practices if they just sent me a new box. For a new 360, as opposed to an expensive consulting firm, I could have told them to ship the 360s encased in bubble wrap or those foamy pellets. But no, they'd rather have UPS kick the thing to my door in a box with no padding, which Jeff interprets as "good enough padding." He refused my request to have the refurb shipped in bubble wrap. So the cycle continues, costing MS loads of money for tech support and frustrating anyone who experiences trouble with their 360.

My options:
a) Send it back for a refurb
b) Do the sticker swap on a new box
c) Light the POS on fire and put it on YouTube (unoriginal)
d) Take a crap in the box I send them and seal it well so they're forced to open it to find the surprise. (juvenile for sure, but imagining the look on the guy's face who opens it up would be priceless)

I suppose if I did the sticker swap I could call them and cancel the repair. I'd tell them that Jesus visited my Xbox and made it work. The Holy Spirit works wonders, you know.

Anyone know anything about lemon laws for these types of things? Do they exist?

</probably incoherent grouping of thoughts and sentences>

[MacRumorUser]

god i'm really sorry for you. i dont wuite understand why they wont give you a new one. when my 360 died, ms replaced it with a brand new machine, that was back in dec/jan and since then never had a problem - other than a few dashboard lockups.....

[mkubal]

god i'm really sorry for you. i dont wuite understand why they wont give you a new one. when my 360 died, ms replaced it with a brand new machine, that was back in dec/jan and since then never had a problem - other than a few dashboard lockups.....

Based on your location, I'd assume you live outside of the U.S.. Based on that I think your replacement is due to better consumer protection laws. Great for you, sucks for me. ;) :(

I still have the hard drive they sent me after the original diagnosis. I'm holding it hostage until I get a working box.:D

[MacRumorUser]

Yep maybe.


At this stage, 3 dead xboxes i'd be going nuts and can understand your position about buying and returing an xbox to target / swapping it.....


There are two thoughts,

1 ok so it's technically imoral and cheating the store, especially if you dont declare it dead..... but

2, even if you return the dead 360 to the store for a refund (if you can) - they
will simply return it to m$ and will be supplied a replacement to the store.. so while incovienianced, you are at least not robbing them.. buy a couple of 360 titles to ease your conscience :)

dont return a dead 360 and pretend it's working only for some other poor soul to end up with it......

[mkubal]

dont return a dead 360 and pretend it's working only for some other poor soul to end up with it......

I'd be doing the swap at the same store that I bought the original broken one from so I wouldn't be cheating them necessarily. Looking back, I had the option with the original to return it and get a replacement from Target, but I opted to board the MS refurb train. Clearly, that was a massive blunder. WTF was I thinking. :confused:

Oh, and I'd tell them it was broken if I did the swap. Wouldn't want someone to have to go through what I did.

[Symtex]

Figured I'd revive the thread to tell you about the replacement I just received from MS:

IT'S FREAKING BROKEN! Plugged it in, bought Madden, ready to get my game on. "Please insert this disc into an Xbox 360." Disc drive won't read discs.

Lovely.

I'll beat a few of you to the punch with your responses:

1) No one cares. Get over it.

2) It's your fault.

If your response is either of the above, please move along. Nothing to see here.

I'm on the phone with MS right now. India is currently "escalating my call" to a supervisor, which I'm hoping is (a) someone I can understand and (b) able to provide me with a working 360 post-haste.

I'm seriously considering the serial number sticker swap from a new 360 at Target. Someone talk me into it, please.

developing.....

That really sucks. Only refurbish box ? I would be pissed too.

[Deefuzz]

My options:
a) Send it back for a refurb
b) Do the sticker swap on a new box
c) Light the POS on fire and put it on YouTube (unoriginal)
d) Take a crap in the box I send them and seal it well so they're forced to open it to find the surprise. (juvenile for sure, but imagining the look on the guy's face who opens it up would be priceless)

I suppose if I did the sticker swap I could call them and cancel the repair. I'd tell them that Jesus visited my Xbox and made it work. The Holy Spirit works wonders, you know.

Anyone know anything about lemon laws for these types of things? Do they exist?

</probably incoherent grouping of thoughts and sentences>

Wow man...That is really horrible, I am sorry to hear that.

I am also put off a bit...I was getting ready to buy an Xbox 360 this week, but after reading this thread I am a bit scared to.

I really wanted to get one, and I have some extra scratch for one right now, and I thought that possibly all of the launch issues and other imperfections would have been worked out by now.

Now I am a bit pensive, and no offense, but I don't want to find myself in your situation. I really hope they get you straightened out, it's ridiculous that you have to play the waiting game for them to fix you up.

[Dagless]

I am also put off a bit...I was getting ready to buy an Xbox 360 this week, but after reading this thread I am a bit scared to.

It is a little worrying yes, and a sign of the times that buying something has to feel like a gamble.

The only machine I've ever had fault on me was my DS Lite but thankfully being a handheld it was easy to carry it back into town and get a replacement. I just couldn't do that with a 360 as easily.
Though I've been hearing about delayed issues. A course mates 360 has just developed a DVD reading error after buying one near launch day. It's just a little worrying is all.

[Abulia]

I really wanted to get one, and I have some extra scratch for one right now, and I thought that possibly all of the launch issues and other imperfections would have been worked out by now.
Wha?

You seriously think mkubal's situation is representative of the millions of 360s out in the wild right now? Come on...

If a thread like this one is holding you back then you weren't going to buy a 360 anyway. Let's not kid around...you're likely just fishing for excuses not to buy. That's cool. Let's call a spade a spade and be done with it.

And to mkubal I don't know what to say. You've been screwed, hard. Is there any way to get your money back through Target?

[mkubal]

I really wanted to get one, and I have some extra scratch for one right now, and I thought that possibly all of the launch issues and other imperfections would have been worked out by now.

While I do think that the stated figures for console failures by MS are higher than they claim, I wouldn't let that stop you from buying one. I think the problem occurs when you're unlucky enough to buy a 360 that eventually breaks. Assuming you send it back to MS to be repaired there's a pretty good chance that you'll get a faulty one in return. It seems to be a matter of how much the shippers kick it around. So it's really luck of the draw. I really doubt MS is intentionally sending broken 360s to me.

What I'd suggest is that if you buy a 360 get a replacement warranty from wherever you buy it. It might cost you $50, but it'd be worth it to avoid my experience. It's a crappy solution, but it would ensure your enjoyment of the console. I'm usually very against extended warranties, but this is a case where it could save you a bunch of frustration with a little extra money.

I don't think you'd regret buying a 360. There are a number of good games. Hopefully one day I'll get to play Madden. :( :)


And to mkubal I don't know what to say. You've been screwed, hard. Is there any way to get your money back through Target?


I looked up their return policy and it seems to be 90 days on the console. In addition it said that they couldn't return something that had been replaced by the manufacturer. I considered calling to see if they would allow it, but I figured I wouldn't waste my time.

If another failure occurs I'm doing the serial# sticker switch. I suppose that transaction should be handled in cash to avoid them charging my card if they become wise to the situation.

Anyone have thoughts on filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau? Would it be worth it? Waste of time?

[Deefuzz]

If a thread like this one is holding you back then you weren't going to buy a 360 anyway. Let's not kid around...you're likely just fishing for excuses not to buy. That's cool. Let's call a spade a spade and be done with it.

What a very perceptive interpretation of my post, so caution and pensiveness now translates to deception...interesting. I wouldn't mention wanting to buy one if I didn't, why would I? Honestly you could have replied with something a little more constructive like what mkubal said (thank you mkubal) if you felt the need to post a response.

As far as the issues go, I have heard similar stories from others. Granted, there are much more happy customers than not, but with my string of poor luck I would get myself problem system. So any "fishing" I may have been doing was to see if the models sitting on the shelves right now were more likely to have surpassed the clump of supposed lemons that had been circulating.

So thank you mkubal for your positive input, I was still intendning to buy one at least prior to October 24th (I have to be on Phantasy Star Universe from day 1!). I was just wondering if there was anything to consider such as extended warranties or certain model numbers to look for/avoid etc...

[Abulia]

What a very perceptive interpretation of my post, so caution and pensiveness now translates to deception...interesting. I wouldn't mention wanting to buy one if I didn't, why would I? Honestly you could have replied with something a little more constructive like what mkubal said (thank you mkubal) if you felt the need to post a response.
It's my opinion. Clearly only you can decide if you want to buy. But if you're seriously worried about a DOA 360 based off of this thread then, frankly, I have to question if you really want one.

I can point to hundreds of threads on the 360 on this forum -- an Apple forum no less -- my own excellent review (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=164310) and scores of satisfied 360 owners here on MacRumors. Instead you want to focus on mkubal's very unusual situation to make a purchasing decision. (And, I think that even mkubal would agree that his situation isn't representative of the "average" 360 owner.)

If my opinion bothers you then perhaps you ought to reflect that it just might be correct?

[Edit] And you should certainly consider an extended warranty if you make it that far.

[mkubal]

So thank you mkubal for your positive input, I was still intendning to buy one at least prior to October 24th (I have to be on Phantasy Star Universe from day 1!). I was just wondering if there was anything to consider such as extended warranties or certain model numbers to look for/avoid etc...

No problem. Glad to help. As per model numbers/dates I can only suggest getting one with the latest manufacture date possible. I'd assume that if there were any manufacturing problems to be fixed (very probable) MS would have worked them out by now. Go to a store that has a decent turnover on consoles like a Best Buy or Circuit City and see what they've got. Snag one that was made recently and get the replacement warranty. That'll be your best bet to avoid refurb hell.

[mkubal]

And, I think that even mkubal would agree that his situation isn't representative of the "average" 360 owner.

Yes, probably not indicative of the average person who buys one new off the shelf. However, I wouldn't be surprised to find that my string of luck with refurbished units is fairly common among those who go that route.

What is strange about dealing with MS tech support is that no one I talk to seems to care that this has gone on this long. It's just the scripted "I'm very sorry that this has happened sir. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do other than send it in for repair." These canned responses are just baffling.

Any company I've ever called about problems with products have been very responsive. They want to see your problem fixed because not doing so gives them a bad name. Most, after a fourth failure, would do everything in their power to put things right immediately. Especially when the fourth box arrived DOA.

MS response has basically been "Yeah, we "***** the bed" three times in a row (within the 90 day warranty), but you're situation doesn't warrant any special handling." Any other company I've dealt with would be falling over themselves trying to get things right.

Oh well. We live, we learn, we buy replacement warranties on consoles even though we shouldn't have to. :)

[ericsthename]

I just noticed this thread was still alive and thought i'd report that my sticker switched box is/has been trouble free so far. While I wouldnt consider it to be perfectly "moral", i certainly do not see the morality in microsoft sending out retooled boxes to people who paid full price for a new one. So two questionable moral dilemmas dont right the situation, but I believe that a company as deeply pocketed as microsoft should be able to shoulder the cost rather than the consumer.

[mkubal]

I just noticed this thread was still alive and thought i'd report that my sticker switched box is/has been trouble free so far. While I wouldnt consider it to be perfectly "moral", i certainly do not see the morality in microsoft sending out retooled boxes to people who paid full price for a new one. So two questionable moral dilemmas dont right the situation, but I believe that a company as deeply pocketed as microsoft should be able to shoulder the cost rather than the consumer.

Duly noted. I may need your expertise in the future if things don't go well. ;) Thanks for the info.

[Deefuzz]

It's my opinion. Clearly only you can decide if you want to buy. But if you're seriously worried about a DOA 360 based off of this thread then, frankly, I have to question if you really want one.

If my opinion bothers you then perhaps you ought to reflect that it just might be correct?


It's merely a bad habit of mine to dwell on the negative, but as I stated before...it was not just this thread or even conversations on this forum leading me to exercise caution, the internet is a much larger place than just MacRumors. But being overly cautious (and a little bit negative) is a flaw of mine I will admit, so for you to misinterpret that, well...fair enough. I can't fault you for that.

But as for you insinuating that because of caution, or some post, that I am really only attempting to fool myself or others about my desire to own an Xbox is absurd.

[bokdol]

this is bad. it seems that the problem is much worse then people sepculated in the begining. i remember people saying that it was less then 5 percent of the poeple with new xboxs that ad problems. be every gamestore i go to say that if they accepted returns on xboxs they would be in the ****. but they are selling the warrenty like crazy. i have a funny feeling that it's more the 5% return rate. well at least at my game store. i guess i am waiting for revision 2..:mad:

[ericsthename]

this is bad. it seems that the problem is much worse then people sepculated in the begining. i remember people saying that it was less then 5 percent of the poeple with new xboxs that ad problems. be every gamestore i go to say that if they accepted returns on xboxs they would be in the ****. but they are selling the warrenty like crazy. i have a funny feeling that it's more the 5% return rate. well at least at my game store. i guess i am waiting for revision 2..:mad:


I too have my doubts about that 5 percent return rate. In Vancouver where I live, I was at an EB Games store, purchasing a game, and when I went to the counter to pay, behind the counter on the floor were about 7-10 360's. I asked the lady if they were all returns, and she said yeah, those are all from today - all red ring of deathed. Well, by my calculations that would mean that that particular store would've had to have sold a lot of boxes to fall into 5% return rate. Coupled with the fact that they were returns in a single day? I dont think so. I will be verrrry interested to see what happens with PS3's, seeing as their cell processor is even less mainstream than the xbox's.