What do you REALLY think about Microsoft?

[Foxer]

Probably done before but, do you really hate Microsoft and if so, why? (Also, see the other thread I'm starting about why Microsoft "won.")

To be totally honest, I don't hate Microsoft. As a Mac user, I am deeply wary of them, but I don't have the daily exposure that I think would engender genuine ire. I know that Apple is safe, probably, since Microsoft needs to point at the 5%-10% of us in order to claim they aren't a monopoly. Otherwise, Apple would likely have dissappeared some years back.

I use Windows and work (as I type, ironically) and it's adequate. I'm glad I don't have to go under the hood (as I always did when I used a PC in 90's), and OS X is not only better, its actually fun. Windows is still, as i see it, a utilitarian tool, as it was in version 3.1 and before. Does anyone know someone who thinks Windows is fun? I doubt it.

I my personal life, I deal with MS only when I want to. Office X is fine, and better than any alternative. We should all be very greatful for it, in fact, since it allows Apple Sales people to reasure want-to-be switchers that their old files will be fully readable on a Mac. I use a MS mouse, beacuse I like them. I play Age of Empires beacuse it is fun.

The fact that MS ripped-off Mac OS does really bother me. But didn't Apple let them by signing that agreement way back when? And didn't Apple "borrow" the whole GUI (or wahteer it is) from Xerox first? Sure, Apple has gone on to be innovative over the years (iApps, iMac, the list goes on...), while the Windows world continues to be, basically, reactive. But does anyone try to give MS credit for being innovative in the first place?

In short, Microsoft doesn't grate on me as badly as it does on some of us. I hope I'm not wistling past the graveyard, so to speak, but we've all found a way to live a life fairly free of the "evil empire."

I'm sure that the sebsequent posts on this thread will persuade me otherwise.

[bousozoku]

I can only endure their presence.

I'm a developer and I don't compete against Microsoft, so I'm pretty safe in contrast to those who have competed. I've heard of others who had great technology and resisted Microsoft's desire to share where hurt either physically or had other life-changing circumstances that led them to stop developing entirely.

Then, there are situations such as that with Windows 3.0 and DR-DOS 5.0, and again with Windows 3.1 and DR-DOS 6.0 where MS intentionally looked for something that not in MS' or IBM's versions of DOS in order to coerce users into abandoning DR-DOS. 86-DOS, which became MS-DOS was a clone of CP/M (the forebear to DR-DOS) anyway. MS should have been paying Digital Research royalties to use DR's ideas.

There was the time when they worked with STAC to add drive compression to MS-DOS 6, decided to forgo it, broke the contract, then put the code in anyway. STAC won their case against MS but there are thousands of others like this.

The only thing to like is that they can market anything and quite frequently do.

[wsteineker]

**** 'em.

[hvfsl]

I hate the company, I only use Windows to run games. But I do run MS Office out of choice because it is the best, this is the way Microsoft should make people use its software, bu making it the best, not by forcing people to use it because it is the only choice.

I finaly get why Star Trek fans call M$ the borg, M$ has never invented a single thing, they ether copy or buy up other companies.

[iJon]

i dont hate them at all. i mean i dont like xp as much as mac os x. they make great mice, office is great. xp is a big step forward. xbox beats out the competition in every technical field, they have some awesome games. if apple would have been smart and copyrighted there os we all would be at windowsrumors.com talking about why we hate apple.

iJon

[vniow]

I'm not sure if I can trust them, I don't mind registering with Apple when I first install OSX because their customer loyalty has been proven (for the most part) and they're not going to screw you over in a big way (liscencing schemes, WMP spying on you, etc etc..) but with MS it's a different story since they've been shady in the past and all signs point to that they're not going to stop anytime soon...

I'm not a gamer so I don't really need Windows for anything OSX can't do, I just can't afford to replace my whole computer setup right now.http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=252654

I think they make decent products, it's their overall business strategy I have a problem with.

[Roger1]

Overall, I don't have many problems with Microsoft. I don't care for their marketing strategies, but I do like the software of theirs that I have worked with.

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I can only endure their presence.

I'm a developer and I don't compete against Microsoft, so I'm pretty safe in contrast to those who have competed. I've heard of others who had great technology and resisted Microsoft's desire to share where hurt either physically or had other life-changing circumstances that led them to stop developing entirely.



Would you mind elaborating further on this (not because I don't believe, but because it seems really interesting)? I just had no idea that MS did/does this. Physically harmed or otherwise, man. I am so curious to know about it, if you don't mind saying.

[trebblekicked]

microsoft's products are so-so. the only two MS products i use are office and age of empires II. i have a gateway with windows 98 on it, and it has always had problems. Like vniow said, it's their corporate phillosophy that i can't stand. they are predators. the way they tried to kill netscape back in the day was sad, the way they sabotaged opera a couple years ago was pathetic, the way they stole the GUI from apple because there was a soda jerk running the company was brilliant opportunism. ballmer scares the piss out of me, gates is like the benevolent demigod.

[King Cobra]

My deep emotions of Microsoft:

Microsoft is a corporate defenition of "people". They feed off its supporters, who have to look up to the leader, Bill Gates, in order to continue to succeed in their own lives, while the leader, Bill Gates, only cares about himself and those he wants to care about (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2903455.stm).

[rainman::|:|]

i'm exceedingly liberal when it comes to business practice-- most times, i think the government shouldn't be sticking their noses in private industry. but in this case, MS has grown to such huge proportions that they impact the entire global economy, and it's usually a mediocre or even bad influence. MS thrives in the absence of competition, which admittedly many companies do, but they don't kill their competition through unfair business practice.

So no, i don't really think MS is evil or BG is the antichrist (well, okay, a little)... but i do think that the company's negative impact far outweights it's positive impact on the world.

they also work hard to decrease privacy, which infuriates me. between palladium and some of the other stuff they've tried to do, and done, it's kind of sickening that the world accepts it without question or even a second glance at other companies (like apple :))

pnw

[Potus]

I bought MicroSoft works for my first computer an SE. In comparison to the appleWorks suite that came with my mac the MSWorks was a nightmare. Buggy. Cranky. And hard to use. I've hated them ever since.

[billyboy]

I dont care for Microsoft because Windows gives my dad so much hassle. He really needs a user friendly set up and the poor bloke has so many complications doing simple things on a PC.

My mum nearly had a fit when he started ogling my Mac. She sees the money invested in the Windoze kit and wont sanction a switch. He sees a nifty little iBook as the way ahead in the next phase of retirement. He will get his way, but only because the PC will probably go pop for no good reason.

[Giaguara]

i asked my cousin - who uses windows - if it is morally more acceptable to work as a stripper or for M$. she said stripper, without any doubt.

so far none who i've asked that had answered M$.

:rolleyes:

[Potus]

Originally posted by Giaguara
i asked my cousin - who uses windows - if it is morally more acceptable to work as a stripper or for M$. she said stripper, without any doubt.

so far none who i've asked that had answered M$.

:rolleyes:

This is so funny! Thanks. I really needed a laugh after an extremely difficult day.

[vniow]

Originally posted by Giaguara
i asked my cousin - who uses windows - if it is morally more acceptable to work as a stripper or for M$. she said stripper, without any doubt.

so far none who i've asked that had answered M$.

:rolleyes:


How low would a stripper for MS be?

[Giaguara]

Hey, actually a poll about M$ or stripper being more acceptable morally (http://www.macosx.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30950) on an other mac board - so far no votes for M$ ... ;)

[Nipsy]

I love their mice.

I'm ambivalanet about their Mac products.

I hate their Windows products (from the OS on up).

I abhor their licensing schemes.

I am revolted by their business practices.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Nipsy
I love their mice.

I'm abivalanet about their Mac products.

I hate their Windows products (from the OS on up).

I abhor their licensing schemes.

I a revolted by their business practices.

wow, that is exactly how I feel! I love my 2 MS mice (mouses?)
but I hate their software (how ironic - I hate the software companies
software, but like their hardware :D).

[NavyIntel007]

They will lose companies in DROVES because of their stupid practices.

People like my dad will have two choices...

Linux which isn't easy (for him)

or

Mac

Of course he'll stay with Linux and try to call me while I'm on an aircraft carrier to help him. :rolleyes:

[phampton81]

I really can't stand M$, I dont want to exaggerate, but I have had problems upon problems with my PC while my eMac has been rock solid. My PC just seems to want to crap out every time I change/install something new. And how hard is it to really figure out where all your hard drive space is going.....I have no clue

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
MS thrives in the absence of competition, which admittedly many companies do, but [b] they don't kill their competition through unfair business practice.

They require their hardware partners to jump through enormous hoops (ever notice how most HARDWARE has the Windows SOFTWARE sticker on it) in order to promote alternative OSes, and this led to the ultimate death of several upstart operating systems.

Then there's the IE integration argument.

Then there are numerous companies which were litgated to death, without just cause, but also without the means to fight.

Then there are oodles 'borrowed' ideas, which throttled the competition, without fair recompense (kinda like Apple did to the Watson guy).

To say that they don't kill their competition is a bit of stretch...

[sturm375]

I like MS products, but not many of their business practices.

To those who say: "MS doesn't inovate"

-Win95 - TaskBar = OS X Dock
-Win3.1 - File Explorer = OS X Finder (In some ways).
I'm sure there are more.

To those who say: "My PC is always broken"

Chances are, you are using crappy hardware, and has very little to do with the OS. If you start with well made hardware (you'll have to do the research yourself), you'll have stability that rivials the fabled Mac. I have a self built dual athlon system, running Win2k Pro, that literally has never crashed. This system is my main system at home, I game, surf the internet, program, and more. My TiPB G4 500 Mhz running OS X has crashed a number of times.

My TiPB is the only computer I've ever owned that has ever needed to be sent in for repair. Firewire stopped working, they replaced the logic board, 4 months later, broken again.

As for the business practices. Wasn't Apple one of the plaintiffs involved with the IE monopoly lawsuit? Are they not now integrating Safari into their OS X? Did you know that several business died with the release of iTunes? How many businesses died because of the other iApps?

Do I like the licensing schemes MS is implementing? NO. I also don't like the privacy intrusions being developed by MS. It is driving be to Linux. If I weren't a self-built computer junky I might consider Apple as an alternitive.

[iindigo]

Originally posted by sturm375
I like MS products, but not many of their business practices.

To those who say: "MS doesn't inovate"

-Win95 - TaskBar = OS X Dock
-Win3.1 - File Explorer = OS X Finder (In some ways).
I'm sure there are more.

To those who say: "My PC is always broken"

Chances are, you are using crappy hardware, and has very little to do with the OS. If you start with well made hardware (you'll have to do the research yourself), you'll have stability that rivials the fabled Mac. I have a self built dual athlon system, running Win2k Pro, that literally has never crashed. This system is my main system at home, I game, surf the internet, program, and more. My TiPB G4 500 Mhz running OS X has crashed a number of times.

My TiPB is the only computer I've ever owned that has ever needed to be sent in for repair. Firewire stopped working, they replaced the logic board, 4 months later, broken again.

As for the business practices. Wasn't Apple one of the plaintiffs involved with the IE monopoly lawsuit? Are they not now integrating Safari into their OS X? Did you know that several business died with the release of iTunes? How many businesses died because of the other iApps?

Do I like the licensing schemes MS is implementing? NO. I also don't like the privacy intrusions being developed by MS. It is driving be to Linux. If I weren't a self-built computer junky I might consider Apple as an alternitive.

This forum is for people who actually LIKE Macs! Mac-bashers are unwelcome!:mad:

[scem0]

Originally posted by iindigo
This forum is for people who actually LIKE Macs! Mac-bashers are unwelcome!:mad:

that isn't true. People who don't contribute to this site
positively are unwelcome. I hope you were being sarcastic,
because that was being rude. You can't say someone is
unwelcome at this site because he defended MS, especially
when 90% of the things he said were true. Plus - did he ever
say he didn't like macs? No... He said his tiBook has broken
more than any other computer of his. Don't insult, make
generalizations, or make claims for other people (ie don't say
that he is unwelcome to the whole community when people
like me welcome him).

He wasn't even bashing macs... :rolleyes:

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by sturm375
Are they not now integrating Safari into their OS X? Did you know that several business died with the release of iTunes? How many businesses died because of the other iApps?

Ummm...Safari is a browser. You can remove it ENTIRELY. IE is a part of the OS, you can not remove it.

It is very acceptable for a browser to use APIs provided to make it more seamless to use. It is unacceptable to ingrain that browser so deeply that it can't be removed.

I hate IE, but when I type an url into the location bar in a Windows window, does it open Mozilla? No, it opens IE. When I use Windows Update does it use Mozilla? No.

What is my default browser? Mozilla. Have I clicked the don't use M$ apps thingy? Yes.

Also, as fars as I know, Apple bought Soundjam which is very different from having killed them! I unaware of anyone else that was lost.

The other iApps may have stopped Mac dev on some apps, but they haven't killed any companies.

[ShaolinMiddleFinger]

My middle finger is my pop up ad for them.:D

Seriously though, I hate having security problems every two to three days from them.

[chrisfx811]

my first computer was an imac 266 that i had for about 4 years. then i bought a fp imac because nothing on the windows side made me "want" it. i have never owned a windows pc and really don't have much more than a little "passing" experience on them. my mother recently bought a gateway, and quite frequently calls me up to ask how to solve problems she has.
unfortunately, i am not a computer whiz, so my answer is always: you should have bought a mac!
i chose a mac based on the facts that i didn't want to learn to much geeky info, i wanted it to be reliable, fun to use, fun to look at, and games were not an issue.
i may never know what the dark side has to offer and i'm cool with that.

[bwawn]

Originally posted by sturm375
I like MS products, but not many of their business practices.

To those who say: "MS doesn't inovate"

-Win95 - TaskBar = OS X Dock
-Win3.1 - File Explorer = OS X Finder (In some ways).
I'm sure there are more.


Sorry dude, but most of your post was terribly misinformed.

NeXTSTEP was NeXT's operating system and had the dock, functioning extremely similarly to how it is functioning in OS X now, years before Win95 was even released. Apple stole nothing... they bought NeXT and thus inherited their innovations. Similarly, I've seen people try to blame Apple for "copying" the design for the Cube G4 from some other company, when in fact it was based on a design idea from NeXT in the early 90s.

The OS X Finder is in NO WAY related to the Win3.1 File Explorer. The OS X Finder is EXTREMELY similar and based on the first few releases of the MacOS, and especially System 6 which was released years before Win3.1 came to the market.

Your misinformation in the case of Internet Explorer and Safari was handled quite well in another post by Nipsy.

Seriously, I don't mean this in a rude way, but get your facts straight before you preach misinformation. I apologize for the rude tone of this post. I just don't know how to give this information in any other more appropriate wording.

[iJon]

man your getting hammered strum, and im gonna have to agree with nipsy and brawn, you are misinformed. thats ok though, you can learn from them.

iJon

[Fukui]

MS has been proven again and again not to be trustworthy.

Those nice MS mice everyone is commenting about weren't designed by MS. I even was impressed with them until I learned the truth... There was another company (don't remember the name), that wanted to work with MS on support for their product, what MS did, was get enough information on the design, cancel the contract, use the information they got by "working together" to develop their own version, and stall in court long enough for the company suing them to go bankrupt...

They did this with sendo, an (ex) pocketPC phone maker, only this time, they sold the schematics to a bunch of cheap Taiwanese manufactures, so that the price in the market would plummet and force other competitors out of the market, MS is currently in litigation with sendo, for as long as sendo has money to fight them with!!

They even did this with apple waaaaay back in the day, work with apple in order to get the info they need to make their own version, and then stab them in the back.

They were even found guilty in a European court for STEALING SOURCE CODE from another company!!! The only reason most people don't know about it is cause the story broke on sept 11 2002...perfect timing huh??

I don't know why people continue to actually work with this company!!

[scem0]

probably money.... ;) :rolleyes: :o :D :D

[VIREBEL661]

OK, maybe not - but I DO think Microsoft's best software is made for the MAC! OK, exclude the crummy version of Media Player and the not-so-updated version of Explorer... Office is FAR BETTER on the Mac platform than windoze, IMHO!

[Gaz]

To hate Microsoft because it's sucessful is wrong. They have displayed very bad business practises but then again so have Apple. Just look on the front page for the story on Apple resellers not renewing their contract. It's just the way of the world.

On a software front Microsoft have done some great things..I prefer use Office XP to anything else, it has some many nice little features that make my life easier. I'm not knocking Office X but on my PowerBook I it feels slow and sluggish which isn't really up to scratch when you're writing 200 page documents.

For development I prefer Visual Studio.net and SQL Server to all the other products out there but I'm keen to try a some of the new things on my Mac but again ultimately speed is putting me off.

Having said all that, if I need to do any kind of graphics work then the Mac wins hands down. It's just feels right...

For me, using Microsoft is about using the right tool for the job.

At the end of the day all large companies have bad ethics even Apple. To say Microsoft is wrong for buying up companies then so is Apple. Windows is no better or worse than OS X these days, it's just different. Too many people are trying to compare Microsoft and Apple too directly. If you look at the different types of products they produce then you'll see that they don't really overlap as much as suggested.

[blogo]

I really think Apple or MS are secretly the same company, or maybe it's just me being paranoid :cool:

[sturm375]

OK, So I don't have any experiance with NextStep. I also don't know anybody who does. So please excuse me for going by my own experiances. All I was trying to say is that to me, a Windows user, the general feel of OS X was more familiar to me than OS 9, 8 or 7.

For the record, it is easy to get Windows to use another browser other than IE. You change settings very similar to how you'd change settings in OS X.

I like both Mac, and Win. Did you hear me say I was getting rid of my TiPB? NO! For the money, I have yet to see a more complete package in a notebook than the Powerbook line from apple. (Also because I can't build my own notebook, the hardware is too hard to find.)

Again:
MS Business practices = Sucks
MS Software = Generally cool (I have yet to find an easier, more complete office suite than MS Office) And I've tried Appleworks, StarOffice, Open Office, Lotus Office(I think that's the name). Somebody knows another I shoud try, post it!

Apple Business practices = Sometimes sucks
Apple Software = OK
Apple Hardware = Excellent (except for the firewire port on my TiPB:D )

[maradong]

Originally posted by Foxer
Probably done before but, do you really hate Microsoft and if so, why? (Also, see the other thread I'm starting about why Microsoft "won.")

To be totally honest, I don't hate Microsoft. As a Mac user, I am deeply wary of them, but I don't have the daily exposure that I think would engender genuine ire. I know that Apple is safe, probably, since Microsoft needs to point at the 5%-10% of us in order to claim they aren't a monopoly. Otherwise, Apple would likely have dissappeared some years back.

I use Windows and work (as I type, ironically) and it's adequate. I'm glad I don't have to go under the hood (as I always did when I used a PC in 90's), and OS X is not only better, its actually fun. Windows is still, as i see it, a utilitarian tool, as it was in version 3.1 and before. Does anyone know someone who thinks Windows is fun? I doubt it.

I my personal life, I deal with MS only when I want to. Office X is fine, and better than any alternative. We should all be very greatful for it, in fact, since it allows Apple Sales people to reasure want-to-be switchers that their old files will be fully readable on a Mac. I use a MS mouse, beacuse I like them. I play Age of Empires beacuse it is fun.

The fact that MS ripped-off Mac OS does really bother me. But didn't Apple let them by signing that agreement way back when? And didn't Apple "borrow" the whole GUI (or wahteer it is) from Xerox first? Sure, Apple has gone on to be innovative over the years (iApps, iMac, the list goes on...), while the Windows world continues to be, basically, reactive. But does anyone try to give MS credit for being innovative in the first place?

In short, Microsoft doesn't grate on me as badly as it does on some of us. I hope I'm not wistling past the graveyard, so to speak, but we've all found a way to live a life fairly free of the "evil empire."

I'm sure that the sebsequent posts on this thread will persuade me otherwise.

Totaly my point of view, except that i can t understand the spying microsoft is doing with alexa and so on.

Personnaly I like Gates to, as he brought the operating systems a big step forward, and he s a genius. Apple learned from Windows, and vice-versa. As they are challenging one against the other the one is as well copying stuff from the other that the other way around.