iBox?

[edesignuk]

Taken from Wired.com article:
Minnesota man has plans to launch his own Macintosh-manufacturing business, building a low-cost, upgradeable Mac called the iBox.

John Fraser, a 21-year-old engineer from Chanhassen, Minnesota, is finalizing the design for his flat "pizzabox" Mac and hopes to go into production in three to four months. If successful, Fraser will be the first third party to make a Mac since Apple shut down its three-year experiment in clone licensing in 1997.
Full story. (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,58310,00.html)

[edesignuk]

...interesting...

[hvfsl]

I have been thinking of doing the same, I know a place where I can get new Apple Motherboards etc to build a computer. I could then put it in a cheap PC case. The cost is a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac.

If he does manage to pull it off, I will be one of the first to but one. But I do have some sugestions for the computer.

-Get rid of the modem, if someone still needs a modem they can get a USB one.
-Give it 5.1 sound (or at least the option for it) This can be done by adding a PCI card
-the back needs to be redesigned to be able to fit 2 PCI and 1 AGP card.

[pseudobrit]

Yes, all that space seems wasted back there.
It's got virtually the same ports as an iBook in five times the area.

[NavyIntel007]

He seems really worried about all the legal aspects to it but those server companies (I think it's IVS) sells current mac models in 3U rackmounts. All he would have to do was find exactly who manufactures the logic boards and buy them straight from there. If this pans out I'd gladly get one.

[iJon]

this guy will fail, what about warranties and all that. that would be cool if he succeded, but with out the backing of apple i cant see him doing that well.

iJon

[krhodus]

iBox was Apple's codename for the Cube

[mymemory]

It looks nice, I hope he can build a monitor too.

The warraty is a big issue, it was the first thing that came to my mind too.

Lets see the final price for it.

[Kodex]

This move will really hurt apple and i dont see them letting it happen by any means. Even him trying to make them will cost apple massive ammounts of money in legal issues. Apple will not provide support for the third party computer and if it is made into production im sure apple will attempt to make a new version of OS X which cant be run on it. There is a reason apple shut down Power Computing and all the other 3rd party makers, they were buring apple, why is this person who seems to like macintoshes so much trying to hurt the company as well?

[ryan]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
He seems really worried about all the legal aspects to it but those server companies (I think it's IVS) sells current mac models in 3U rackmounts. All he would have to do was find exactly who manufactures the logic boards and buy them straight from there. If this pans out I'd gladly get one.
The company you speak of buys PowerMac G4s, and basically just stuffs the guts of them into a rack mount enclosure. They don't buy logic boards from a third party.

[mymemory]

I have an issue with the design...

The computer case is flat, that is susitable for placing a monitor on the top. Becasue of the dimensions, it will be a ctr monitor., now, that would look uglie because no monitor looks like the cpu.

There is where I would sugest to create a minitower model for the cpu, a flat screen would not crash against the desing.

[Sol]

How long before he is shut down? I estimate it to be days.

Was that graphic above genuine? If so the device should offer the option to change the graphics card and yes, more USB and FireWire ports need to be back there. A 56kbs modem is simply redundant.

[bigdog]

The guy interviewed is a regular poster (Insider) and as such, followed up the article with a post here:

DealMac Forums (http://forums.dealmac.com/read.html?f=1&i=1131076&t=1131076)

You can search the DM Forums for iBox for more information on his plans.

[backspinner]

It would be nice if I could buy these quite bare, and insert the old harddrives from my works PC's and use the current monitors and keyboards and such.

But the work PC's are all VGA (video) and PS2 (keyboards), so this never will funcion...

I think this computer iBox can only succeed if enough corporate customers get interest in it. Imagine a mac on your coworkers desks running OS X!

[Gus]

Originally posted by Kodex
This move will really hurt apple and i dont see them letting it happen by any means. Even him trying to make them will cost apple massive ammounts of money in legal issues. Apple will not provide support for the third party computer and if it is made into production im sure apple will attempt to make a new version of OS X which cant be run on it. There is a reason apple shut down Power Computing and all the other 3rd party makers, they were buring apple, why is this person who seems to like macintoshes so much trying to hurt the company as well?

First of all, this isn't designed to be a PowerMac replacement-it's designed to be a cheap Mac alternative. Therefore, all of the bells and whistles will be, and should be removede. Quit saying that in order for it to succeed it needs to be able to do this and that. I think the guy is on to something big there. And about Apple getting hurt? Boo-freakin'-hoo. How many times have we said that Apple is a business? Well, so are other companies, and if Apple wants to stasy competetive, I'm pretty sure that they could design something as cheap, but better, so maybe this will make them do it. I think this guy would help Apple, just like Power Computing was doing-PowerComputing had the best machines on the market when they were around, and they were cheaper than Apple. I still say, if they can do it, so can Apple. Competition is what a free market is all about.

Regards,
Gus

[bikertwin]

If he does succeed (and I don't think he will due to intellectual property), then all it will mean is that Apple hardware prices will come down and software (OS, iLife, etc.) prices will go up. Apple has to make profits somewhere.

Net gain: zero.

And of course Apple won't support you if you have any OS or application problems.

And the whole idea is silly. Who would want to buy a BMW-compatible car frame so that you could stick in a BMW engine and some cheap, leftover seats from your last car? :D

[GetSome681]

Originally posted by bikertwin
If he does succeed (and I don't think he will due to intellectual property), then all it will mean is that Apple hardware prices will come down and software (OS, iLife, etc.) prices will go up. Apple has to make profits somewhere.

Net gain: zero.

And of course Apple won't support you if you have any OS or application problems.

And the whole idea is silly. Who would want to buy a BMW-compatible car frame so that you could stick in a BMW engine and some cheap, leftover seats from your last car? :D

what a non-sense post.

what leftover parts? they are parts from new machines...it's all apple parts, so with your analogy...what parts is he putting in there that aren't bmw? It's putting bmw parts in like a neon. sure it'll be ugly as hell, but it'll blow most cars off the road performance wise. maybe there are a lot of people who care what your computer looks like, but I don't really care because if it's a server it's shoved in your closet, or just under your desk. my computers are extremely "ghetto'ed" out, but who cares, b/c it's given me extra performance.

sure apple's designs are wonderful...but the same parts, thrown in a white box...that'll do the same thing...why not?

[NavyIntel007]

I wonder if he sold the box (under a different name) without an OS or install something like Yellow Dog Linux and only market it that it is capable of running OS X which is sold separately if Apple legal can do anything about it. If he's selling machines to run a different OS I don't imagine that Apple could do anything but buy him out.

I think it would be nice if Apple introduced a mini-tower with just AGP and one PCI.

Yeah, it'll never happen. He's screwed.

[MikeH]

At best this is going to be somthing of a cult hit. Apple has nothing to worry about, as this guy has numerous obsticles in his way, such as:

- Sourcing motherboards; relying on repaired returns is hardly likely to provide a regular flow of reliable hardware.

- Supply; who's going to sell them? Not Apple Stores or key Mac Resellers.

- What's his after sales service going to be like?

- Will he sell with OS X pre installed? If so how does he stand legally?

I say good luck to him, but he has his work cut out. Just making a cheap PC (it won't be a Mac as it's not an Apple) that runs MacOS X will be hard enough, but selling it's going to be really tough.

[Sun Baked]

AmigaOne G3/G4 (http://www.eyetech.co.uk/search.php?SearchStr=&SearchCat=AMA1) + Mac on Linux (http://www.maconlinux.org/) + Mac OS X EQUALs pseudoClone

Repackaged Spare Parts + Third Party CPU + new case NOT EQUAL Clone

[pyrotoaster]

He's boldly going where Apple has been before. The difference here, is that he'll offer hard drive-less, processor-less models, as well as full-fledged machines (MacMinute (http://www.macminute.com/) has more info).

The move truly is bold, though. The Power Computing days were back in the Amelio and Company era. We're in a whole new Jobsian era of Apple. Things are very different down in Cupertino, now. It'll be interesting to see how Jobs responds, as we all know his position on Mac clones.

So, John Fraser, good luck. You'll probably need it.

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by GetSome681
what a non-sense post.

what leftover parts? they are parts from new machines...it's all apple parts, so with your analogy...what parts is he putting in there that aren't bmw?

The article says that he will sell bare bones machines so people can reuse old parts or use new ones. Other posters said much the same thing.

People buy Hondas and mod them. Mercedes owners generally don't mod their cars.

A Mac is an experience, it's not a bunch of parts.

If you reduce it to just a bunch of parts, you have a PC. That's not necessarily bad (each has its place) but then you no longer have the Mac experience, the Apple tech support, the ease of use, the consistency, etc.

[jayscheuerle]

I'm dying for one of these. I've got a fully loaded beige G3 and if the processor or motherboard goes, I'd love to just take my drives, pci cards, CDRW, whatever and put it in with a newer processor. $650 is a LOT cheaper than $1500...

[runningman]

It would be nice to give apple a little competition. They have a strangle hold on their devices that inhibits competition. With competition comes innovation. Look at the PC market. It's a prime example of how competition can drive prices down and still have innovations. Good for him

[Qball]

Apple legal will crush this. And it's as ugly as a PC.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
I'm dying for one of these. I've got a fully loaded beige G3 and if the processor or motherboard goes, I'd love to just take my drives, pci cards, CDRW, whatever and put it in with a newer processor. $650 is a LOT cheaper than $1500...
...which is why Apple will probably mire this guy in legal red-tape.

I'd be very surprised if Apple's patents on their G4 motherboards don't make it illegal to use them in non-Apple machines without their concent. (I asume that the company that sells rack mounted Mac's worked something out with Apple since they came out long before the XServe.)

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by runningman
It would be nice to give apple a little competition. They have a strangle hold on their devices that inhibits competition. With competition comes innovation. Look at the PC market. It's a prime example of how competition can drive prices down and still have innovations. Good for him

This would be NO competition for Apple. How many spare motherboards can he get his hands on? A few hundred, maybe? Certainly not enough to meet the kind of demand that would have any impact on Apple's bottom line.

...But I think Apple will pull the plug on this before we ever see the first iBox.

[yzedf]

MikeH: All of your "questions" were answered in the article:

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,58310,00.html

A Minnesota man has plans to launch his own Macintosh-manufacturing business, building a low-cost, upgradeable Mac called the iBox.

John Fraser, a 21-year-old engineer from Chanhassen, Minnesota, is finalizing the design for his flat "pizzabox" Mac and hopes to go into production in three to four months. If successful, Fraser will be the first third party to make a Mac since Apple shut down its three-year experiment in clone licensing in 1997.

Unlike the world of Windows PCs, which has many hardware makers, Apple is the only company making Macs. Apple doesn't license its operating system to outside hardware manufacturers.

Fraser hopes to sidestep the licensing issues by using older, off-the-shelf parts made by Apple and sold to computer repair outfits as spare parts. He will use Apple-made motherboards preloaded with Macintosh ROMs -- the vital piece of hardware-cum-software that makes a Mac a Mac. Customers will supply their own Mac operating system.

However, Fraser may still face legal problems with patents and trademarks, legal experts said. Apple is notoriously protective of its intellectual property, and has not hesitated to go after hardware manufacturers, software publishers and websites for infringement.

Fraser hasn't yet contacted Apple, and the company didn't respond to requests for comment.

"I always wanted to build Macs," said Fraser, who runs a part-time PC customization business, 2khappyware. "But I want to get Apple's full support. I want to make sure I'm on the up and up. I'm an Apple supporter. It's not something I want to clash with them about. I want to make sure what I'm doing is legal."

Fraser's iBox will be a low-cost, upgradeable machine. It will offer everything Mac customers expect: FireWire and USB ports, Airport connectivity, Gigabit Ethernet and so on -- for about a third of the price of comparable Apple machines.

Fraser plans to offer both bare-bones and complete systems.

For $250 to $350, the bare-bones iBox will feature a case, motherboard and power supply. Customers will add their own processor, memory, hard drive and operating system.

Fraser will build full-featured configurations to customers' specifications. A fully loaded iBox will cost between $650 and $2,000, depending on the speed of the chip, the size of the hard drive and other features. He plans to offer configurations with dual processors, just as Apple does in its current line of PowerMacs.

Fraser will base the iBox on so-called "Gigabit" motherboards built by Apple as spare parts for previous generations of G4 PowerMacs. As well as Gigabit Ethernet, the boards have a daughter-card slot for the CPU, which can accommodate a range of G4 chips, including those yet to be released. The iBox includes open slots for extra memory, two PCI cards and an AGP video card.

Fraser said a clear demand exists for a low-cost Mac that customers can outfit themselves with cheap, off-the-shelf parts or parts taken from older machines.

Now, Apple customers must decide between Apple's entry-level iMac or eMac, neither of which can be significantly upgraded, or spend more money for a pro-level Power Mac.

Fraser is in the final stages of iBox production. The missing piece is finding a manufacturer for the machine's distinctive case, which was designed by Mario Micheli, a designer from Milwaukee. Fraser said he is meeting with companies that mold plastic next week to discuss putting it into production.
page 2

Fraser has already struck a deal to buy parts from Other World Computing, a Mac parts and peripherals supplier. OWC said it may sell Fraser's systems through its website.

"I think it has great promise," said Larry O'Connor, OWC's founder and CEO. "Mac users like unique and interesting things, and this has definitely got people's attention. There's definitely interest in what he's doing."

Fraser isn't new to building PCs. He earned his living with his 2khappyware customization business for a few years before he had a child and sidelined the business to a hobby.

And Fraser said he doesn't have any grand plans for building the iBox business into the next Dell or Gateway. "I'm not doing it for profit," he said. "I'm doing it for a hobby."

The project has already generated considerable buzz on a number of online forums. In fact, it was encouragement from members of the dealmac forums that persuaded Fraser there was demand for the iBox.

But intellectual property lawyer Mark Dickson said Fraser has to be very careful not to infringe Apple's trademarks, trade dress or patent portfolio.

Dickson, a partner at the Menlo Park, California, office of Arnold White & Durkee, said Apple could challenge Fraser if his machine's look, name or marketing confuses customers into thinking it's an Apple product.

Dickson also cautioned Fraser to be careful not to infringe any patents. Even if Fraser uses Apple parts, Dickson said the company may hold patents governing how they are put together. The patents may not even be held by Apple, but by another PC manufacturer, Dickson said.

Dickson said he had no knowledge of Apple's patent portfolio, but strongly cautioned Fraser to consult an intellectual property lawyer before proceeding.

"I think he would be wise to talk to a patent attorney before he does anything else," Dickson said.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by bikertwin
If he does succeed (and I don't think he will due to intellectual property), then all it will mean is that Apple hardware prices will come down and software (OS, iLife, etc.) prices will go up. Apple has to make profits somewhere.

Net gain: zero.

And of course Apple won't support you if you have any OS or application problems.

And the whole idea is silly. Who would want to buy a BMW-compatible car frame so that you could stick in a BMW engine and some cheap, leftover seats from your last car? :D

I agree and disagree. Unfortunately there are people out there who pirate software, so getting the Macs cheaper would benefit them more.

In response to other posts, I totally agree that this is a mistake in form factor now that LCD screens are more common, unless this thing fits under the feet of an Apple Display? Anyone?

[Fender2112]

If you take a bunch of outdated parts and put them together, do you not have an outdated computer?

If you want an updated processor but want to keep all of your other hardware (hard drive, ram, graphics card, ect) get a processor upgrade.

[sparkleytone]

i think its pretty cool. it would be nice for alot of people who have switched to the mac, especially techies, to get their hands on a cheap box like this. the linux implications are infinite. it would be a great cheap small server to just sit around to be toyed with. people need to realize its not a massmarket thing. its just one of those toys for techies. i think the creator has a pretty good handle on that too. i'd love to see it hit the market.

[MacBandit]

I like it. I really wish Apple would bring back the pizza box macs ala LCs. They were a great computer for the home user that already had a monitor and didn't care to be able to upgrade all that much in the future.

[AhmedFaisal]

I was waiting for something like this from Apple for years now. I want a living-room multimedia comp. The PowerMac is too big and too loud for the job, the iMac has a screen attached to it, so both are out of the question. This thing however is PERFECT. So if Apple really is going to fry his ass hopefully they at least buy him out for the design and market something similar themselves.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[amnesiac1984]

Its exactly what I need for my hosue next year. I want to rum my kdx server on a dedicated old mac running os x. But old macs are far too expensive for what they are, yes this will be an old mac too but it still looks like it will be far better value.

[QuiteSure]

... Apple will take the hint and start peddling their own version of the iBox. The lack of that product is what's really inspiring this stripped-down neoclone.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
... Apple will take the hint and start peddling their own version of the iBox. The lack of that product is what's really inspiring this stripped-down neoclone.


I agree. Just think take an eMac cut the monitor off the top and sell it for $600 or less. I think I would buy one just as a second compuer. I would love to stick it in my home entertainment system and use it as a music/video server.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by runningman
It would be nice to give apple a little competition. They have a strangle hold on their devices that inhibits competition. With competition comes innovation. Look at the PC market. It's a prime example of how competition can drive prices down and still have innovations. Good for him

I hardly call the plethora of portable space heaters a market of innovations.

Look at the instability.

You really must be a PC user.

[NavyIntel007]

Apple needs a midrange again. They had it with the Cube but for the price it wasn't upgradable enough. The price of the eMac should be dropped about $200. Then you have the iMac which is the all in one with all the power or you could get the same priced mini-desktop with one PCI and one AGP and no monitor. Apple needs to understand that I don't particularly need 4 PCI's nor do I need that clunky tower with the handle.

I think it's a good idea and seeing that he'll be using outdated Apple mobos, he mightdo alright for himself. This will never be a huge market though and there will be the chance that Apple buys him out and repackages this thing (which would be great).

[PretendPCuser]

A lot of people have been crying for Apple to do something like this. They haven't. They could very well put a legal crunch on him, or they could let him do the marketing test to see if people like the idea, then buy him out.

On the flip side, if they were to shut him down, they would probably hire the guy. I mean, from what he's doing he's obviously an Apple type employee.

Ever hear of security people hacking into networks (white hat), then letting the person in charge of the network know that they did it so that they can get a job working security there? It happens. And i'm sure no matter if this machine gets to market or not, that's one smart dude there.

I say, "go, dog, go!" :cool:

[AhmedFaisal]

... to this. It still has the annoying screen. I dun need a screen. All I want is a barebone Mac like the Shuttle is for the PC. It would be the ideal living-room comp. Cutting the Screen off the eMac and just selling that would be a great idea though.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[kinless]

I really hope this comes to pass. For the past few years I have stuck with my "desktop pizza box" Beige G3 configuration, simply because I don't have room for an extra tower. If something flat can be made, then I'm all for it, as long as it has some degree of expandability (i.e. PCI, AGP, etc.)

Knowing how Apple is, I hope they think twice before shooting this guy's hopes and dreams down with their legal crap.

At least make the G5 platform in tower/desktop configurations if you don't side with the iBox!!!!

[eric_n_dfw]

He must be getting a good deal on those MB's and power supplies. It is telling that the Wired article and/or his web site say that he is in this as a hobby and, "not to make a profit", because at those prices he probably won't.

Before I got my current G4, I was seriously considerring putting together my own from used or refurbished parts and slapping an OWC G4 upgrade in it. Every time I added it all up, though, it came within a couple hundred dollars of a better, used machine on eBay.

For example (aprox eBay completed item prices unless otherwise noted):
G4 Gigabit MB, $140
Mac AGP Rage 128 Video Card, $30
24 Pin PowerSupply, $50
G4 Case, $150
40GB Hard Drive, $45
Apple DVD-ROM Drive, $20
G4 800 from OWC, $300
256MB PC100 RAM from OWC, $40


Total (not including shipping): $775
Take $100 off if you go with a cheap PC case, but you will still need to come up with the power button/speaker circuit board and probably need to do work on the case to get it to fit correctly.

Now check eBay for completed auctions on used PowerMac G4's, here's a couple better machines within a $125 bucks of that:
G4 800 (upgraded) with DVD-RAM, 30GB HD, 64MB Radeon, 17" Monitor, Zip Drive: $900 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3407977195&category=14912)
Quicksilver G4 800, 40GB HD, 640MB RAM, CD-RW, Radeon 7500, OS X 10.2, more: $900 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3408940679&category=14912)

My DP G4 500 (debatably better) with DVD-RAM, 256MB RAM, 40GB and an AGP Rage 128 was $700 on clearance at CompUSA a couple weeks ago including the manditory 3 year CompUSA Platinum waranty.

How much cheaper do you think this guy's materials will be? What do you think the cases will end up costing to produce?

Don't get me wrong, I think what he is doing is very cool, but I just don't think it'll make it very far out of his garage before crashing and burning due to costs or legal woes.

[happyware]

Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by kinless
...I have stuck with my "desktop pizza box" Beige G3 configuration...Not to take away from your arguement (it's a good one), but the pizza box term refers to cases that litteraly are about the thickness of a delivery pizza box.

IE:

[yzedf]

Hi there John!

Core is much better name than iBox (some Japanese thing anyways) or Tina (lame reminder of Lisa). You should create a poll of 10 or so names and put that on your webpage. Try to use something without a i or x as the first character please :rolleyes:

HM xxx (headless mac 867 or whatever speed)

Leo -- http://www.astrology-online.com/leo.htm

[vniow]

Originally posted by happyware
Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com

I wish you the best of luck because many people believe that there is a genuine market for what you are doing and Apple hasn't realized this so it's good that someone stepped up to the challenge.

Here's to hoping Apple Legal doesn't slam your ass for this.http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=258478

[j33pd0g]

If this pans out I have a gut feeling that it would take forever to get any kind of support. A fully loaded iBox will cost between $650 and $2,000. I think I would wait an extra 2 months, save the additional money and buy from apple. I wonder how much service one of these "pizza b0xes" can provide before it dies. With Apple I don't have to wonder. If you could pick one of these things up for around $499 though, I would get one for my parents, or for any one who complains about not being able to afford a mac.

[eric_n_dfw]

If I could get one of these, with a G4 500 or something, for about $400, I'd buy one. (If I was shopping right now)

[happyware]

The motherboard used is the gigabit ethernet motherboard used in the 500Mhz Range. While you could use a 400 or 550Mhz Processor you are better off using the newest Gigadesigns G4 8002MB cache and higher processors. The case itself will be available for $250-350 and the processor is around $250-300.

[TheInevitable]

I really hope Apple just lets this happen. Think about it. He's not competing with Apple, he's competing with all those people that are selling used Macs on eBay. Someone could buy a used G4 400 tower on eBay for about $600-700 with no warrenty. Or they could buy one of these. I think it's a killer idea, it would be healthy for the mac community, and I see no reason why Apple should feel any threat. Good luck dude.

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by happyware
Hello everyone. Man oh man how news travels.

For your information I am already using Mac motherboards and other companies (for server use) are already doing this same thing.

The other thing people have to realize is that while the demand is huge for this.. The supply of older motherboards is far more limted (in fact I know of only around 1000 that I can get my hands on for a low enough cost to make it worth while).

Well just keep up to date: http://www.2khappyware.com

I think this is a great idea: a stripped-down and low-profile Mac on the cheap. Just imagine how many of us could use this as some sort of low-end server or something to store our MP3s and videos. Make sure you make enough to cover cost (we don't want you to go bankrupt or anything!), and don't pay too much attention to the nay-sayers: this is almost how the two Steves started out with their original Apple. As you can tell from the inquiries you're getting, the demand for this definitely exists.

BTW, I like "Core" a heck of a lot better than "TINA."

Good luck!!! :)

[yzedf]

Originally posted by happyware
The motherboard used is the gigabit ethernet motherboard used in the 500Mhz Range. While you could use a 400 or 550Mhz Processor you are better off using the newest Gigadesigns G4 8002MB cache and higher processors. The case itself will be available for $250-350 and the processor is around $250-300.
Speaking of the case... are you thinking a smoke grey color to try to go well with the Apple/Fowmac LCD screens? Or maybe pick from 3 (black, white, grey)?

[Sheebahawk]

Long time reader first time poster... I'd definately buy one, if only to hold me over until I can buy another real mac. My dad switched to windows when apple ran into trouble a few years back, but I ended up getting my first job and spent pretty much all summer earnings on an imac. It still works like a champ (10.1.5) but my brother has been using an old B&W 350 which he somehow managed to break. It won't run in X anymore, and I don't want to touch the machine since its been handed down from about four different people. I'd love to take the monitor and reformatted HD and put it in a little box with a kickass video card and a decent G4, just something that could run Panther and Halo and all the games my bro plays. My computer does fine for what I need it to do, but its at the bottom of the mac gaming food chain. It really hurts to have to play games on my dad's PC or on my Xbox (I only bought one so I could play Halo, and so microsoft would lose money on the hardware.) I really could give a rat's ass about customer service or waranties, I've never called apple tech support once in my twenty years of dealing with their computers. (yes all my life, I learned the alphabet playing this game on the APPLE IIc with a penguin that sang when you pressed the right key.)

Bottom line is, my bro and I would love to buy a new apple computer but thats not going to happen anytime soon cause its gonna take a while to save for one. We've been looking at the emacs, but they aren't very configureable, and we don't need another freaking monitor, Plus the price is a little high. A sub thousand dollar mac clone would be great, I'd love to trick it out as a gaming machine, its within our current budget and I would actually buy more apple software that I wouldn't otherwise get for our outdated computers. Plus, once we did get a new Apple brand computer (970 imac or powerbook I'm wishing for) I could sell it to a PC using friend who I'm sure would realise the foolishness of dealing with windows (oh how he whines when his computer crashes every other hour, and oh how I chuckle when his even whinier excuse is "I know macs are better, but I'm a GAMER")

My situation may be unique, but If I bought one of these, In my estimation, it would only really benefit apple and myself. I hope apple doesn't send its legal goons after this, if they want to do something about it, create a product that would compete, don't use microsoftesque strongarming. Its about time there was another mac on the market that catered to the consumer's tastes, instead of the consumers catering to apple's tastes. Please reserve one of those motherboards for me, hell if apple tries to stop you, maybe we could work something out despite them . ;) I'll contact ya.... eventually. Good luck with the thing you're doing.

[Abstract]

If you take a bunch of outdated parts and put them together, do you not have an outdated computer?

That's what new Macs are anyway, so its not like he's doing anything different. How old is the G4 now?


.....I think it's a good idea and seeing that he'll be using outdated Apple mobos, he mightdo alright for himself. This will never be a huge market though and there will be the chance that Apple buys him out and repackages this thing (which would be great).


There IS a huge market for this. Anybody who wants a Mac can now afford one. The prices compete at the level of PC's, not most Macs. It's actual competition is the single processor PowerMac that Apple is selling. Apple IS trying to sell you a stripped down Mac, but its selling it at quite an expensive price. This is better for anybody who wants to spend 40% less for the same thing, so why not do it?

About the legal issues: there aren't any. As long as he doesn't sell Mac OSX installed on the computers, I don' t really see the problem. He purchased all the parts from legal vendors of Apple parts, so obviously its legal to purchase these parts individually and put it to (good) use. Just don't call it a Mac, and don't call it an Apple product. Heck, don't call it an "i" product at all and I'm sure you can save yourself a lot of headache. I'm sure Apple will complain about the confusion between an iBox and an actual iMac, for example, when the parts used in both computers are similar.

I agree. Just think take an eMac cut the monitor off the top and sell it for $600 or less. I think I would buy one just as a second compuer. I would love to stick it in my home entertainment system and use it as a music/video server.

Again, that's what the single proc PowerMac is, except that Apple just happened to price it all wrong. They should just make their machine cheaper if they're actually worried about competition.

[iJon]

personally i think this is why apple got rid of the 3rd parties, its gives them a bad name. apple no longer has control of this computer and quality will suffer. he will have to buy lots of boxes of os x, quanities will be limited. what if one is bad, is he gonna fix it, will he even be around to fix it. do you send it to his house and have him fix it. will there be phone support. i just do not see this happening.

iJon

[kzoonut]

I really like this idea - but I'm afraid that the heavy hand of Apple legal is going to try to stomp this out right away.

Couple of things that it brings to mind tho -

1. Remember that outfit that was retro-fitting emacs with the SuperDrive? They got a cease & desist and about 2-3 months later, Apple started offering it as an option - and just a few months ago, dropped the price on the SuperDrive eMac.

2. With all this commotion about an affordable Mac, I hope Apple realizes the TREMENDOUS market appeal this idea has. For me, I only see two clear cut ways for Apple to DRAMATICALLY increase market share -

a. Release OS X so that it runs on Intel -or-
b. Release a "headless" computer to compete with the $500-$600 Dell/Gateway offerings.

I don't think the Intel option is really attractive to Apple at this point (lost hardware sales) - but the $500/$600 Mac alternative sure would get people switching in droves. I hope Apple sees the light!!

[iJon]

Originally posted by kzoonut
I really like this idea - but I'm afraid that the heavy hand of Apple legal is going to try to stomp this out right away.

Couple of things that it brings to mind tho -

1. Remember that outfit that was retro-fitting emacs with the SuperDrive? They got a cease & desist and about 2-3 months later, Apple started offering it as an option - and just a few months ago, dropped the price on the SuperDrive eMac.

2. With all this commotion about an affordable Mac, I hope Apple realizes the TREMENDOUS market appeal this idea has. For me, I only see two clear cut ways for Apple to DRAMATICALLY increase market share -

a. Release OS X so that it runs on Intel -or-
b. Release a "headless" computer to compete with the $500-$600 Dell/Gateway offerings.

I don't think the Intel option is really attractive to Apple at this point (lost hardware sales) - but the $500/$600 Mac alternative sure would get people switching in droves. I hope Apple sees the light!!
plus the boot rom code is only licensed to an apple computer. so basically his idea is already illegal and this end before it started.

iJon

[vniow]

Originally posted by iJon
personally i think this is why apple got rid of the 3rd parties, its gives them a bad name. apple no longer has control of this computer and quality will suffer. he will have to buy lots of boxes of os x, quanities will be limited. what if one is bad, is he gonna fix it, will he even be around to fix it. do you send it to his house and have him fix it. will there be phone support. i just do not see this happening.

iJon


Well since these are just Apple parts repackaged in a custom case I would imagine that any Apple dealer could repair them if they were broken (excluding the case of course)


plus the boot rom code is only licensed to an apple computer. so basically his idea is already illegal and this end before it started.

iJon

No it's only liscened to an Apple motherboard (I think, don't quote me on this) because like he said, he's done the same thing with packaging Apple motherboards/CPUs, yadda yadda in server cases so that part's not illegal at least.

If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)
What is illegal is running the Mac OS on a machine without an Apple supplied Boot ROM (or something like that) so as you technically could run OSX on one of those PPC Amiga boxes by installing Linux first, then Mac-on-Linux, it's illegal in that case, but not if that Amiga box carried a (legal) Apple supplied boot ROM.

I'm just speculating here so correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

[iJon]

Originally posted by vniow
Well since these are just Apple parts repackaged in a custom case I would imagine that any Apple dealer could repair them if they were broken (excluding the case of course)



No it's only liscened to an Apple motherboard (I think, don't quote me on this) because like he said, he's done the same thing with packaging Apple motherboards/CPUs, yadda yadda in server cases so that part's not illegal at least.

If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)
What is illegal is running the Mac OS on a machine without an Apple supplied Boot ROM (or something like that) so as you technically could run OSX on one of those PPC Amiga boxes by installing Linux first, then Mac-on-Linux, it's illegal in that case, but not if that Amiga box carried a (legal) Apple supplied boot ROM.

I'm just speculating here so correct me if I'm wrong anyone.
good points, this is just what one of mac techs told me. someone here will know the exact answer. but wouldnt it be selling the computer be the illegal part, not sure. anyways i still think this guy will fall flat on his face, but the best of luck to him.

iJon

[yzedf]

iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...

[iJon]

Originally posted by yzedf
iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...
true, but that elephant is the elephant we have learned to love. i think apple keeping everything to itself is the reason they are so quality. apple can control the quality and that gives them a good name. sure you cant build your own machine cheaply, but thats the reason they are quality. if they get this guy building ibox's and giveing out his home phone for support of whatever and people dont give good service, people wont want a mac. plus who is gonnna fix these. do you go to some convention to get ibox certified. mac service centers have specific details on ordering parts. these people will have to pay outrageos prices on getting parts replaced in that computer, so the answer is yes resellers will fix them, if they want to pay one hell of a fee ot have a part replaced. there are just so many things apple has control of that will make this idea fail in my opinion.

iJon

[yzedf]

Originally posted by iJon
true, but that elephant is the elephant we have learned to love. i think apple keeping everything to itself is the reason they are so quality. apple can control the quality and that gives them a good name. sure you cant build your own machine cheaply, but thats the reason they are quality. if they get this guy building ibox's and giveing out his home phone for support of whatever and people dont give good service, people wont want a mac. plus who is gonnna fix these. do you go to some convention to get ibox certified. mac service centers have specific details on ordering parts. these people will have to pay outrageos prices on getting parts replaced in that computer, so the answer is yes resellers will fix them, if they want to pay one hell of a fee ot have a part replaced. there are just so many things apple has control of that will make this idea fail in my opinion.

iJon
All of the expensive hard to do bits are NOT made by Apple. All they do is use the PPC architecture that nobody else uses for the home market, throws together a few slightly different configurations (CPU speed isn't a new config), tests it for a few months while fine tuning any new drivers that come from offereing "new hardware" such as FW800 or AE or BT, and then sell it. No different than Dell or Gateway really, on the hardware side of things. It just that Apple sells its "own" software (I use "own" loosely). The "it just works" factor comes from very limited driver base (few hardware specs to support) and the amount of time in between releases. Even then, they screw it up (iMovie 3 and the iPod battery issue as of recent).

Don't misinterpret me... I like Apple. Their approach is probably better than Microsoft and Intel's. But that is not saying much, is it? Don't claim to be bleeding edge innovators, if you aren't. And Apple isn't. Trailing edge... yes.

[iJon]

Originally posted by yzedf
All of the expensive hard to do bits are NOT made by Apple. All they do is use the PPC architecture that nobody else uses for the home market, throws together a few slightly different configurations (CPU speed isn't a new config), tests it for a few months while fine tuning any new drivers that come from offereing "new hardware" such as FW800 or AE or BT, and then sell it. No different than Dell or Gateway really, on the hardware side of things. It just that Apple sells its "own" software (I use "own" loosely). The "it just works" factor comes from very limited driver base (few hardware specs to support) and the amount of time in between releases. Even then, they screw it up (iMovie 3 and the iPod battery issue as of recent).

Don't misinterpret me... I like Apple. Their approach is probably better than Microsoft and Intel's. But that is not saying much, is it? Don't claim to be bleeding edge innovators, if you aren't. And Apple isn't. Trailing edge... yes.
quote from the site. "He will use Apple-made motherboards preloaded with Macintosh ROMs -- the vital piece of hardware-cum-software that makes a Mac a Mac." He is using apple stuff i think that is what you meant, not sure.

iJon

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by yzedf
iJon

If Apple has some PPC competition... only good things can happen.

As of right now, Apple is a monopoly (calm down for a second)... they sue out of existance anyone who tries to innovate their work (sounds familiar). They think that they should be the only one to sell the PPC in a home environment. That is cr@p. That is why Apple has become the stagnant elephant that they used to fight against.

Small speed bump here, buy out someones product and re-release it here... big frickin' deal. They have only done 2 things in the recent past that were good; OS X and the iPod. And neither of those was original either. They just modified it, for the better I grant you.

Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...

I pretty much agree. I love my TiBook as much as the next guy, but as someone who regularly uses a PC at work and home, I do understand both the benefits and drawbacks of the Mac. The megahertz myth does indeed exist, but anyone who says a top-of-the-line G4 is faster than a top-of-the-line Pentium 4 has either bought in completely into Apple's propaganda or only does heavy rendering with Photoshop on their Macs. :rolleyes:

Look, Apple makes great computers, but it is not infallible and beyond reproach. Steve Jobs has basically imposed his own asthetic tastes on the Macs, and while some designs are indeed really cool, others are quirky or impractical. The Arstechnica article today on the OS X Finder is also a case in point. Believe it or not, I actually like some features of Windows (except for the occassional Blue Screen of Death :D ), and I think OS X can borrow a few of those features.

There is obviously demand for this product, and this fellow John is supposedly trying to meet this unfulfilled demand. I hope people like him will get Apple to wake up and listen more closely consumer demand.

[yzedf]

speed... indeed!

http://barefeats.com/pm07.html

looks like the 1.42 is just a small speed bump after all :(

[cb911]

sounds like it would have been a good idea for him to speak to the patent attorneys before he even started making prototypes etc. it will be a good idea if he can pull it off... actually it would be awesome!! :D :D

this might also draw some 'Mac' users that previously unable to purchase a Mac because of price. and as mentioned before, some Power PC competion would have to be a good thing, right?

the 'stagnant elephant' that is Apple might finally un-stagnate itself.:rolleyes: :p :)

[adamcoop]

Originally posted by krhodus
iBox was Apple's codename for the Cube

Actually it was Trinity.

http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=g4cube

[digitalrampage]

I am an authorized Apple service technician and it won't happen.

Apple's exchnage process means a dead board must be sent back in its place or a huge fee is added to the price.

In AUstralia, a typical G4 Logic is about $1000 Exchange or $1500 - 2500 OUTRIGHT.

Considering new machines are $3000, its not worth it for the one board, not to mention the processor.

[iJon]

Originally posted by digitalrampage
I am an authorized Apple service technician and it won't happen.

Apple's exchnage process means a dead board must be sent back in its place or a huge fee is added to the price.

In AUstralia, a typical G4 Logic is about $1000 Exchange or $1500 - 2500 OUTRIGHT.

Considering new machines are $3000, its not worth it for the one board, not to mention the processor.
exactly what i was saying. its just to complicated. this john guy isnt gonna get these parts forever. and if a reseller is supplying him apple will give them the boot.

iJon

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by vniow
If it were illegal like you said, then everybody who has put an Apple motherboard in a PC case would be hunted down and prosecuted by Apple Legal (which obviously hasn't happened)[/COLOR] I'll bet if I started reselling them and got my name plastered on a major tech website and/or magazine (like Wired! did here), they would.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by yzedf
Look at the capabilities of a Macintosh Plus versus those of a PowerMac. The software is newer/prettier/"better" but does it really do anything that couldn't be done before? Not much...
How about:
Firewire, desktop video editing (NLE's), DVD authoring, Mp3 (and AAC some day) music compression and CD authoring.
Not to mention color screens and ethernet!

None of these possible on a Mac Plus :p

[hokka]

I don't think it would work - at all! nice try but naive...

Okay, Apple has less than 5% of market, out of these 5%, how many people would buy such a thing? Design studios? Scientists? Parents and Schools? Musicians? nope, the MAJORITY of its market will not even look at it - but a few fans who are hooked on apple (both the hardware and software), and always want the best for less... come-on guys, wake up! its not what Apple stands for and Apple has formed a brand - thats right, its not always about the hardware or software - and people buy their product for the brand - no matter how "cheap" it is, not many people would want it - especially when its really second rate to the real deal... really, majority of people who can afford and use a mac (the majority of apple's market share) would not spend time on boards like this, crying for a cheaper alternative, but actually making a real difference with the mac they've got - that's right, stop crying you little babies, if you can't afford it, maybe its not for you? Its like not everyone can afford a BMW... but do you see anyone building his own BMW and reselling it under another name? what a joke! I can't believe how naive some people are.

and someone said switchers can now buy a "cheap" mac - which switcher would want such a thing? when he or she could just get a PC -when brand is not associated with this ****box apart from it can run OS X... I guess what I'm getting at is if you are a TRUE mac user, and stand by your BRAND, then its what you'll be getting, a mac experience, not some half-baked stripped down, cheap-ass, no support, one man show - who does nothing but rehashing and defacing a great product that we all love and cherish. I know it will not happen! when it does, I know the apple brand is dead.

Now if he's a true fan, he'd use his mac and actually do something useful with it... instead of seising an opportunity because the "encouragements" he gets from people on internet boards without any afterthought, or consultation - he's got to be naive.

[xDANx]

Originally posted by hokka
I don't think it would work - at all! nice try but naive...

Okay, Apple has less than 5% of market, out of these 5%, how many people would buy such a thing? Design studios? Scientists? Parents and Schools? Musicians? nope, the MAJORITY of its market will not even look at it - but a few fans who are hooked on apple (both the hardware and software), and always want the best for less... come-on guys, wake up! its not what Apple stands for and Apple has formed a brand - thats right, its not always about the hardware or software - and people buy their product for the brand - no matter how "cheap" it is, not many people would want it - especially when its really second rate to the real deal... really, majority of people who can afford and use a mac (the majority of apple's market share) would not spend time on boards like this, crying for a cheaper alternative, but actually making a real difference with the mac they've got - that's right, stop crying you little babies, if you can't afford it, maybe its not for you? Its like not everyone can afford a BMW... but do you see anyone building his own BMW and reselling it under another name? what a joke! I can't believe how naive some people are.

a number of people have made references to how macs are the BMWs of the computer world...i'm not particularly fond of that analogy. with the exception that computers in general are luxuries in a global sense, i didn't choose to buy a mac because i want a leather mouse and an apple hood ornament. i bought it because in a variety of ways it serves me much better than the PC i gave up for it...stability, performance (in certain respects), usability. i ended up using a mac at work and then going home to my PC was a hideous experience, so i switched. i didn't spend the money on my mac just for the sake of spending more money. it's not a luxury item in that sense.

i hope that this hobby or project is at least allowed to get as far as a small production run...i think it's in every mac user's best interests. let's face it...the only reason that apple isn't involved in an anti-trust lawsuit is because of its paltry market share. apple behaves in a manner that microsoft only wishes it could.

[TheInevitable]

HE'S NOT COMPETING WITH APPLE!

He says himself that there is a total of about 1000 motherboards available. This is supposed to be a hobby thing for him to get a little extra money. What part of that "will never work?" If he only sells 100 total computers, I bet he would feel it was a success. Lighten up on the guy.

[iJed]

It would be interesting to see someone attempt something like this based on generic PPC hardware and running a highly cut down Linux with MOL. Surely Apple would have no way of taking legal action against this if the machine didn't actually ship with Mac OS.

If I could just easily get my hands on PPC procs and mobos in the UK then I would have a go at making my own machine like this. Sadly every PPC chip and mobo is totally unreasonably priced in single units.

[eric_n_dfw]

I hope the guy does sell 100+ of them. I hope he makes a profit. I think it's a great idea!

But Apple (esp. under Jobs) has a track record of stomping out things they probably would have been better off to leave alone.

OWC's FireWire DVD-R enabler for iDVD comes to mind first.

Or how about the guy who wrote iCommune.

[runningman]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I hardly call the plethora of portable space heaters a market of innovations.

Look at the instability.

You really must be a PC user.
A little defensive for a simple comment on free enterprise and what competition brings to the table. I used the PC example because it's a computer system like apple and competition has driven competitors to innovate and drive prices down. Because the operating system is unstable makes no comment on the device itself. Also in regards to the PC user comment for a page that is happy to discuss the something new you chose to bog it down with underhanded comments. The fact is competition is important for any company, it's also important so as to protect the consumer.

[strider42]

Originally posted by bikertwin
If he does succeed (and I don't think he will due to intellectual property), then all it will mean is that Apple hardware prices will come down and software (OS, iLife, etc.) prices will go up. Apple has to make profits somewhere.

Net gain: zero.

And of course Apple won't support you if you have any OS or application problems.

And the whole idea is silly. Who would want to buy a BMW-compatible car frame so that you could stick in a BMW engine and some cheap, leftover seats from your last car? :D

incidentally, BMW does indeed sell the frames for pretty much all of their cars, presumably for enthusiasts building cars for the track. Here's the part number for the frame of the Z4: 41007064711

Whats more, third parties buy BMW's and other cars and retrofit them with all sorts of stuff and allow users to upgrade different parts. Its a specialized niche, but it exists.

I think this is a neat idea, but I think they guy will be shut down. Not by apple legal directly, but by apple cutting off his supply channel. I'd certainly consider it if it comes out and the specs are all good.

[jimbo2]

I can't help but wonder if this isn't some strange April Fools joke... Here's some thoughts I had last night:

Look at the images of this thing. The width is listed as 13", but the sides are curved. So you'll lose about 1.5" - 2" from the bottom. I just measured the logic board in my G4, and it was just over 12" wide, so it won't fit!

Now, lok at the height, listed as 3". That apparently includes the feet. My processor heat sink is that tall! So again, this won't fit!

Next let's look at the back. What's with the ports? Everyone knows the Mac's logic board has all its ports lined up along the left hand side, so why are these ports all over the place? One would have to assume that for some odd reason these external connectors will be wired back to the connectors on the logic board? Does that make any sense?

Then we've got that strange PCI slot in the middle, the only way it can get there would be to have a 90 degree adapter on one of the slots, but then guess what? It will go right over the top of the video card's slot! So where the heck is he getting that video port from? Hmmm?

I'm not even wanting to guess how he's squeezing a power supply and a hard drive into this thing, or what I have to assume will be an array of 1/2" tall fans along the sides for ventilation... You all remember those big fans in the G4's case, right?

I'd suggest that any of you thinking this thing is real to wait until some actual (non-Photoshop) photos get posted of this thing in action. Meanwhile, I'm off to order my 19" PowerBook and PPC 970 equipped iPod w/color screen.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by jimbo2
Meanwhile, I'm off to order my 19" PowerBook and PPC 970 equipped iPod w/color screen.
Do me a favor, pick me up one while your there...I'll pay u back later...I promise ;)

[thies]

. The parts can be acquired legally. QED the various tutorials how to build your own Mac from parts. IIRC the mainboard is a generic Phillips board? whoever cares, google for it, fact is you can buy it legally. Same for CPUs, look at the upgrade stuff etc. Hrddrives are run-of-the-mill, you can use any brand, same for optical drives.

So, anyone care to show me how "apple will crush him" when all the hardware is bought and resold legally? He won't infringe on any copyrights or other such crap. Only maybe if iBox is registered, but that name can be changed.

[thies]

ever heard of iMac mainboards? think about it...

[xDANx]

Originally posted by runningman
...I used the PC example because it's a computer system like apple and competition has driven competitors to innovate and drive prices down...The fact is competition is important for any company, it's also important so as to protect the consumer.

at the risk of being heavy and boring...

competition is beneficial for consumers in the short run (wider variety of products, lower prices) but it's really a moot point in the long run. the tendency in any competitive environment is to concentrate and centralize. those firms that fail in competition with others are invariably snatched up by the victors and the capital is pooled, resulting a very high level of concentration of ownership in a market over time. there's a reason that after 150 years of capitalist development the global economy is dominated by relatively few large firms that often control more wealth then the GDPs of many countries combined.

the computer industry is one of the worst in terms of monopolistic tendencies. there are continual mergers and the number of companies that control the market gets smaller and smaller all the time. the reason that there's still a great deal of innovation in such a monopolistic environment is because most business models are predicated on research and development...if they stop developing new products or improvements at a fast pace and expanding as much as possible all the time, they collapse. does anyone really think the reason that apple creates a new operating system for everyone to buy every 1 1/2 years or so is solely because they want to improve on everything all the time? the only really competitve part of the computer industry (PC wise anyway) is the retail side, where a number of small operators will put together systems at your request made from parts bought from a vasted reduced number of companies.

apple completely dominates it's part of the computer industry...i would like to see this ibox project work out not because i think that it can change the face of the apple sector of the computer industry (the days of getting together with your friends in a garage and inventing the personal computer are long dead)...but hopefully it can at least show apple that there's a market for much cheaper macs that don't necessarily have all the bells and whistles but that do have room for expansion and upgradeability. apple could find a way to implement that into their current product line-up without causing undue damage to the sales of other products if they put effort into it. regardless of what happens, apple won't lose their tight grip on everything mac in the forseeable future.

[starlightmica]

>ever heard of iMac mainboards? think about it...

They aren't anywhere as flexible as G4 Gigabit Ethernet boards - soldered components prevents upgrading sans an iron. There's also an analog board meant to fit underneath the monitor, but I don't know if that can be substituted with a generic PC power supply.

All this guy needs to do if he gets whacked by Apple Legal is to come out with a basic case and power supply, and sell the kit for a reasonable price. I, for one, would be happy to do the rest.

[iJon]

Originally posted by thies
I'm sorry, but most of you are morons. The parts can be acquired legally. QED the various tutorials how to build your own Mac from parts. IIRC the mainboard is a generic Phillips board? whoever cares, google for it, fact is you can buy it legally. Same for CPUs, look at the upgrade stuff etc. Hrddrives are run-of-the-mill, you can use any brand, same for optical drives.

So, anyone care to show me how "apple will crush him" when all the hardware is bought and resold legally? He won't infringe on any copyrights or other such crap. Only maybe if iBox is registered, but that name can be changed. if apple finds this guy a threat belive me, apple will crush him.

iJon

[thies]

that must be the same logic by which Microsoft will crush Apple when they see them as a threat I guess?

[iJon]

Originally posted by thies
that must be the same logic by which Microsoft will crush Apple when they see them as a threat I guess?
ok now we are talking about a software company and a hardware company that have nothing to do with each other. i would bet probably anything that apple legal will find a way to get this guy some way or another, you just wait.

iJon

[thies]

You are joking, right? Apple is a hardware company making no software and Microsoft is a software company making no hardware and they are both not garnering to Computer users to use their architecture? Give me a break.

[iJon]

Originally posted by thies
You are joking, right? Apple is a hardware company making no software and Microsoft is a software company making no hardware and they are both not garnering to Computer users to use their architecture? Give me a break.
apple is mainly hardware and microsoft is mainly software, give me a break, i know the make both but i was stating their main points. this isnt about microsoft and apple, this is about this guys pizza pox and apple, but anyways my stance still stands as this guy will get shut down fast, even faster with the news spreading.

iJon

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by thies
I'm sorry, but most of you are morons. The parts can be acquired legally. QED the various tutorials how to build your own Mac from parts. IIRC the mainboard is a generic Phillips board? whoever cares, google for it, fact is you can buy it legally. Same for CPUs, look at the upgrade stuff etc. Hrddrives are run-of-the-mill, you can use any brand, same for optical drives.

So, anyone care to show me how "apple will crush him" when all the hardware is bought and resold legally? He won't infringe on any copyrights or other such crap. Only maybe if iBox is registered, but that name can be changed.

If he includes Apple ROMS on the mainboard, he's finished. It's copyrighted code and there will be an injunction as well as a cease-and-desist order.

[strider42]

Originally posted by thies
I'm sorry, but most of you are morons. The parts can be acquired legally. QED the various tutorials how to build your own Mac from parts. IIRC the mainboard is a generic Phillips board? whoever cares, google for it, fact is you can buy it legally. Same for CPUs, look at the upgrade stuff etc. Hrddrives are run-of-the-mill, you can use any brand, same for optical drives.

So, anyone care to show me how "apple will crush him" when all the hardware is bought and resold legally? He won't infringe on any copyrights or other such crap. Only maybe if iBox is registered, but that name can be changed.

the fact is that the only legal supplier of bootable mac boards is apple because of the proprietary hardware rom. Apple controls all of the distribution and production of these boards. If apple wants to crush this, they easily can be removing his access to the boards. He would have to get them on the salvage market, which is a hard way to run a business. its easy to put together a PPC system for linux or whatnot, but a system that boots mac OS with new components is totally controlled by apple and there is no legal way around that.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by thies
that must be the same logic by which Microsoft will crush Apple when they see them as a threat I guess?

Microsoft needs Apple. Without Apple M$ would be 5 different companies right now.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Microsoft needs Apple. Without Apple M$ would be 5 different companies right now.
You are confusing a company that doesn't really matter to Microsoft (that would be Apple) with one that does (that would be Sun).

[maradong]

Pretty cool, i hope he ll have success....
That s all i can say.

[GeneR]

If I wanted a pizza box, I'd go down to Little Caesars and buy a $4.99 pizza on Monday Madness nights.

Besides that, this box is UUUGGGGGGLY. I'd rather stay with Apple. No warranty is also a big issue. Who knows? Maybe this guy is really a genetic mutant with ten thumbs. If so, would you want a Mac clone made by someone with ten-thumbs? I wouldn't.

:D

Never the less, I'll probably end up eating my words later (Like usual! :D)

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by yzedf
You are confusing a company that doesn't really matter to Microsoft (that would be Apple) with one that does (that would be Sun).

I beg to differ. Although not a massive player, Apple does offer the consumer another choice when chosing a computer. If apple wasn't there in '97, the DOJ would have actually used their balls and split the company up because there was no other OS to really compete (linux was at it's infancy).