The Drama Inside iPod Games

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macworld takes a look into developing the recently released iPod games (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/09/21/ipodgames/index.php) for the iPod 5/5.5G. Dave Roberts and Dennis Ryan, CEO executive vice president of business development of PopCap Games (respectively), and Fresh Games President Steve Smith were both interviewed. Notable excerpts are below:

On Development:
Roberts: PopCap has been working with Apple for more than a year to bring its games to the Macintosh in a project that, in typical Apple fashion, demanded absolute secrecy. "We coordinated with Apple engineering," he said. "The first time I was able to play the game on the iPod was at the Apple event."

Ryan: "It was different in terms of using the click wheel as an input device rather than a dialpad," said Ryan. "In terms of technical challenges, it's things we've dealt with before, like a small screen size and different memory requirements"

Future Plans:
Smith: "We're working on a new game that will be released soon," said Fresh Games' Smith. "And we've seen some interest in it for the iPod, so we'll see."

Roberts: "We will certainly do other games for the iPod, but when and what all depend on the normal confluence of events."

In a follow-up article (http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/09/21/macgamesipod/index.php), Macworld talks with long-time Mac developers who were a bit frustrated at being left out of the loop.

"It was lame of Apple to ignore the guys that have been loyal to them," said a developer who asked not to be named. "We were ready, willing and able to create anything they wanted."

Developers are continuing to be frustrated at the lack of a software development kit (SDK) for the iPod that would allow them to program software for the iPod.

"No one can create anything for the iPod without access to an SDK," said one developer. "They don’t even have to release that if they don’t want to. I can see not wanting to open the floodgates to every [amateur]. But they have our number... let us sign an NDA and work on some things."


Digg This (http://www.digg.com/apple/The_Drama_Inside_iPod_Games)

[kainjow]

Quit yer cryin' ;)

If you're a company and you want to make games, I would think the iPod would be the last device you would want to work with. How about the PSP or DS?

And why should we care about what a few (probably only one) anonymous developers are saying?

[iKwick7]

I am personally dissapointed by the games for the iPod so far. They only one I might want would be tetris. I could think of quite a few games that would be great on an iPod. A golf game would be great- move the wheel to aim, then move the wheel again to shoot (just like how Tiger Woods golf used to be played). The same could go for a bowling game as well, and I would love to see flash games like Bookworm be ported.

[HecubusPro]

There are a lot of great cell phone-type games they could port over to iPod that don't fit into the normal tetris knock-offs and variants. If they got id on board with Doom RPG and Orcs and Elves, I'd certainly give iPod games another look. As it is now, there's nothing there I'd spend money on.

[Willis]

Ive got Tetris and its pretty good. In a way, I think Apple should of let developers try their hands at it, but, at the end of the day, only certain developers would do well as these are games. OR, Apple may have another use for the developers for the iPod, not for games.

[kingtj]

Frankly, I don't understand why Apple didn't handle iPod game development the way cellphone manufacturers have done. EG. I have U.S. Cellular and they offer DRM encrypted, downloadable games for phones like the Motorola Razr. They have an "online store" of sorts that you search or browse with your phone, and then click to order a program of your choice. The thing is, their offerings may be produced by one of any number of developers. They have a main web site you visit if you want to contact U.S. Cellular about developing a title for them. If they like what they see, they can work out terms with you as to how much money you get per sale and what the asking price will be for that title.

Maybe something like this is coming, but Apple just isn't ready to offer this type of arrangement to developers just yet?

[roland.g]

I want to see that oldskewl game Cyruss I think it was called or something like that come to the iPod. It was kinda like Galaga but you moved around the screen in a circle. It would be perfect for the click-wheel.

[Doctor Q]

Has Apple now released a game SDK, and it was just kept under wraps previously, or are developers still coping without one?

[MacsRgr8]

I want Half Life 2 on my iPod.

:D

[odditie]

Sounds like a couple developers are being drama queens to me...

[JRomero]

Ah man... the amount of hours I have wasted in Intech class on popcap.com :D

[mi5moav]

Bringing games to 30 million ipods could become a hassle. By allowing them access to the SDK they are also allowing them access to something all the other music download sites what access to their DRM. I think they will have 20 to 30 games released by next year, but this will be a very very slow moving thing. 4.99 is a great price and I am a little suprised to see Apple not developing the games themselves, but by not developing the games this is actually a good thing when you think about it.

[Macnoviz]

Sounds like a couple developers are being drama queens to me...

I don't know, iPod is quite strong thanks to a good 3th party hardware support, why not add 3th party software, too?

Maybe start with games, but why not other useful things, too?

That would be a welcome relief for developers trying to use notes and contact book for a dictionary and such and such

3th party software could be an important factor in defeating Zune (Zune: closed, iPod: open)

[k8to]

Closed platform remains closed. Film at 11.

[Clive At Five]

Frankly, I don't understand why Apple didn't handle iPod game development the way cellphone manufacturers have done.

[...blah blah blah...]

Maybe something like this is coming, but Apple just isn't ready to offer this type of arrangement to developers just yet?

You are most probably right. Apple tends to do "test runs" before they allow developers.

Ah man... the amount of hours I have wasted in Intech class on popcap.com :D

Classic!

At first I was like, "PopCap games.... why fricken PopCap games? There are so many other MAC Devs out there that need this opportunity." And then I thought about it... and I remembered that I also spent many hours playing cheap flash games in class (I loved in college how I could bring a laptop to lecture and it wasn't suspicious at all ;) ). PopCap is king of cheap flash games for sure. They'll do quite nicely in the iPod.

We need to get Ambrosia SW an SDK, though, so they can (somehow) port Escape Velocity to the iPod. Damn, that would rule. I'd never have to do anything else with my life. EV Portable.

*grins dreamfully*

-Clive

[Macnoviz]

Closed platform remains closed. Film at 11.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Remember the days iPod and iTunes were Mac only?

Things change, and maybe it's time to give some freedom to developers, first under the supervision of Apple, but later on, who knows? The capacity is there, all it needs is the right software

[JGowan]

Bringing games to 30 million ipods could become a hassle. By allowing them access to the SDK they are also allowing them access to something all the other music download sites what access to their DRM. I think they will have 20 to 30 games released by next year, but this will be a very very slow moving thing. 4.99 is a great price and I am a little suprised to see Apple not developing the games themselves, but by not developing the games this is actually a good thing when you think about it.Well, hold on, hoss :p ... there aren't 30M iPods "out there" that can play the games. Apple wishes...

As stated on the Games page of the ITS: "iPod Games are compatible with fifth generation iPods only. They cannot be played in iTunes."

It's possible to have 20-30 games by next year as you've pondered, but consider this... if Apple had offered 30 games to begin with, what's the chances that people would say "I'll gladly plunk down $150 for all of them"... most people, in my guestimation, would've just said "I'll pick my top 5 (Mine would be Tetris, Pac-Man, Texas Hold 'em, Mini Golf and Bejeweled).

However, by offering less than $45 worth of games, it's more likely that people will just click BUY NOW on all of them and try 'em all out. Heck it's under Fifty bucks. I know I will when I get my next iPod. I think, though, I'm going to hold out for the 6G. (According to Gruber over at Daringfireball, this is more of a 5.5G release). At the moment, quality over quantity is crucial. If there's weak games in the lineup, people will start to poopoo the whole deal. We are negative by nature. You've got to keep it down to the well-known/loved games that people grew up with.

About Apple making them themselves... that will probably come into play, but with games, people want to play games they know FIRST. What I think will actually happen all around is downloadable demos. Play the first level or two for FREE and then make the money when people are good and hooked.

Of course, in my opinion, the best thing they could do is get the Big N involved (Nintendo). Sony and MS aren't because of competition with their own Music/Media devices but Nintendo is probably the most Apple-like company in the gaming world. This has been a long-standing rumor so I don't take credit for the logic obviously -- I just think it would be awesome. Would Nintendo want to port titles over from the DS Lite, probably not, but perhaps they could create some fun games based on their Mario Party franchise. Nintendo is the king of Party games.

[mrgreen4242]

I can cetainly see why developers would want a piece of this pie, as opposed to, as mentioned, DS or PSP: There's a ***** load of iPod out there. development costs for an iPod game are likely much, much smaller than for a DS or PSP game and without any physical product distrobution is much cheaper, too. The price reflects that, but with the sheer number of iPods on the market, and the low price point of the games, I expect the volume of sales for these to be immense.

But, I want some games on my nano, dammit! The nano screen is no smaller than many cellphones, and the nano has some decent power available for some games. I think that the game which could be the killer iPod application is a Dragon Liar style quick reflex game. The "video" could be handled with flash style animation (sprites and paths, etc) the click wheel input is perfect, and having really good sound and music would make it a blast. I would probably upgrade to a 5G from my nano for that.

[Macnoviz]

Of course, in my opinion, the best thing they could do is get the Big N involved (Nintendo). Sony and MS aren't because of competition with their own Music/Media devices but Nintendo is probably the most Apple-like company in the gaming world. This has been a long-standing rumor so I don't take credit for the logic obviously -- I just think it would be awesome. Would Nintendo want to port titles over from the DS Lite, probably not, but perhaps they could create some fun games based on their Mario Party franchise. Nintendo is the king of Party games.

I think you're right about that, especially with their whole, it doesn't need to be 1080i to be fun philosophy, I think they can really work their magic with the clickwheel. I really hope a SDK is available soon

[840quadra]

I agree that the SDK should be available to all ADC members, similar to how they released Dash Code for new developers to make widgets.

I wouild also love to play video games on my iPod Nano along with my 5G. I haven't purchased any games for my iPod 5G yet, as , well, I don't like any of them.

There are plenty of flash related games that would be quite fun on the ipod, and having an OPEN format would allow MANY more games to be made for the iPod that could not be used on the PSP, or DS! Granted the iPod has less processing power, however it is stll quite robust!

Apple, you have a chance to make the iPod a portable gamers dream come true, don't miss this opportunity to gain more market share!

[tk421]

Of course, in my opinion, the best thing they could do is get the Big N involved (Nintendo). Sony and MS aren't because of competition with their own Music/Media devices but Nintendo is probably the most Apple-like company in the gaming world. This has been a long-standing rumor so I don't take credit for the logic obviously -- I just think it would be awesome. Would Nintendo want to port titles over from the DS Lite, probably not, but perhaps they could create some fun games based on their Mario Party franchise. Nintendo is the king of Party games.

I don't see Nintendo getting involved in development for another company's hardware. They did it in the old Atari days, and they've had a few things like the CD-i that haven't turned out well.

That said, I would love it if the Nintendo/Apple rumors actually came to fruition and Nintendo and Apple worked together. I love both of those companies!

[heyisa]

It's a shame outside developers aren't being allowed to make programs for the ipod. Beyond Games there are many great programs that could be created on an ipod - Learning tools, Foreign Language Teaching Software, maybe even driving directions software with the new search function.
I bet 3rd party developers would have even better ideas......

[chimerical]

I am personally dissapointed by the games for the iPod so far. They only one I might want would be tetris. I could think of quite a few games that would be great on an iPod.

Well, in addition to Tetris, Pacman and Bejeweled are both pretty popular games among the general population. (And they're both also available in the iTunes store.)

[theheadguy]

Sounds like a couple developers are being drama queens to me...
Actually they bring up some very good points. Apple doesn't feel it needs to be loyal to developers, and quite frequently to customers themselves. However, loyalty to Apple by few developers is one of the only reasons Apple is still around, period.

[puuukeey]

typical apple. it's gotta be perfect, so we have to do it ourselves and we dismiss 99% of potential developers.

[PlaceofDis]

i could see potential issues with releasing the SDK. but then again under an NDA and to the developers who could actually use it to make games i think it should be done. Opening it up to all subscribing devs could be an issue though.

imagine downloading some game/prog for the iPod... but after installing it there are more crashes and issues with the iPod. person goes to Apple to get it fixed. causes Apple more problems. i can almost see why they are keeping a tight reign on this, for now at least. i do think it wouldn't hurt to open it up a bit more either though.

[welborn]

SPACEWARD HO!!!

please? :)

And it'll be even better once iPods have wireless.

Ooh -- Bolo! Or ... Strategic Conquest!

Am I dating myself or what?

What about Sim City?

Where's the SDK!? I'll start writing some now!

[Leej]

Maybe if Apple opened up the amount of devs making games and kept them under Apple's scrutiny, there will be better offerings. While I like Bejeweled a lot, three-in-a-row games are a plague upon humanity. Most of the game offerings don't appear to be worth $5 to me. If history is any indication and Apple supports iPod games with all the fervor they support Mac games, this section of the iTunes store will be bulldozed before too long ;)

[freeny]

I want to see that oldskewl game Cyruss I think it was called or something like that come to the iPod. It was kinda like Galaga but you moved around the screen in a circle. It would be perfect for the click-wheel.
LOVED that game! called "Gyruss". got it for my psp or GBA cant remember.

Play it here for free- http://www.1980-games.com/us/old-games/java-games/gyrus.php

[harveypooka]

If this kind of reaction from Apple is true, games on the Mac are doomed.

I was wondering this today when I was reading an article about Unreal 2007. If Apple can't invest time, effort and money into games then it will simply be doomed as a gaming machine. What's the use advertising them as having gorgeous graphics, running the latest games when there are no games?
I know it's not true that there are no games for the Mac - there are. Call of Duty, Stubbs, Halo, Civ 4, Wow - but they all come out later and are generally slower than their PC variants.

Apple need to pull their finger out. Maybe they have and we don't know about it?

[840quadra]

If this kind of reaction from Apple is true, games on the Mac are doomed.

I was wondering this today when I was reading an article about Unreal 2007. If Apple can't invest time, effort and money into games then it will simply be doomed as a gaming machine. What's the use advertising them as having gorgeous graphics, running the latest games when there are no games?
I know it's not true that there are no games for the Mac - there are. Call of Duty, Stubbs, Halo, Civ 4, Wow - but they all come out later and are generally slower than their PC variants.

Apple need to pull their finger out. Maybe they have and we don't know about it?


We are talking about the iPod, not the Macintosh.

Also, one of the reasons for games being slower on the Mac in the past, is because they were ported for PowerPC. New Macs are intel, so I doubt speed will be an issue in the future once Developers ketch up.

Regardless, I am not a gamer in the true sence. I only play Gran Turismo, and some Rally games on my PS2, so I am an outdated old fart as things go!

[harveypooka]

We are talking about the iPod, not the Macintosh.

Also, one of the reasons for games being slower on the Mac in the past, is because they were ported for PowerPC. New Macs are intel, so I doubt speed will be an issue in the future once Developers ketch up.

Regardless, I am not a gamer in the true sence. I only play Gran Turismo, and some Rally games on my PS2, so I am an outdated old fart as things go!

I know that, but games are all linked to Apple's treatment of developers. I remember when I was younger (14?) I sent a letter to Apple asking if they would support Fallout 2 for the Mac. It came out years later, years! Apple called me (a lady, can't remember her name) to speak to me about it. Great, but nothing happened and it was years later when it came out.

Apple slapping shareware and games developers in the face without opening the iPod up is just as ridiculous as their 'Made for iPod' thing. To get the sticker you have to pay a % to Apple. It's money - that's all. Ok, rant over.

[nbs2]

i could see potential issues with releasing the SDK. but then again under an NDA and to the developers who could actually use it to make games i think it should be done.
And we've seen how many leaks from products for which there was an NDA.:rolleyes: If I remember correctly, wasn't that what started the whole ThinkSecret mess?

[milo]

Boo freaking hoo. They just started doing games a week ago. I'm sure Apple will allow more now that the secret is out.

Can you really blame them for going with developers who have experience doing games for tiny screens with wonky input devices? Seems like the perfect choice to start with.

And I hope they keep TIGHT control over everything that gets released, the last thing I want to see is the iPod getting a reputation for crashing because some bozo developer screwed up.

typical apple. it's gotta be perfect, so we have to do it ourselves and we dismiss 99% of potential developers.

Actually, no. They didn't do the games themselves. These third parties have their panties in a bunch because OTHER developers got to do it first. Boo freaking hoo.

[welborn]

Right now, I am glad I don't have a 5th-generation iPod because I already wasted way too much time playing Zuma on my Motorola 710 phone.

Since I got a Razr, though, my addiction is cured. The game is s-l-o-w on here. Slow to load, slow to respond, and slow to play. And the keypad stinks. If the games on the iPod are done right (and I'd guess they are), there are several on the list already that would suck too much time from me.

Now, I think one reason perhaps that Apple hasn't released the SDK for games on the iPod, is that ay SDK for games could also be used for other generic apps. That would open up a serious can of worms.

[harveypooka]

And I hope they keep TIGHT control over everything that gets released, the last thing I want to see is the iPod getting a reputation for crashing because some bozo developer screwed up.

I'm sorry, but this is a bizarre reaction. Platforms are there for software. You NEED a range of software to make a platform successful. It's like saying Apple shouldn't allow software to be made for Mac so to keep the 'perfect' operation. The more factors you introduce, sure stuff will go wrong, but it's up to the community and the skills of developers to make sure it doesn't. I just can't see your argument.

[iMikeT]

I think that if a developer wants to produce something for the iPod, that it is their responsibility to contact Apple and express their desire to do so.

[intlplby]

i personally would absolutely love to see Rosetta Stone language learning software for the ipod....


just like you have the Nike+iPod couldn't they do a GPS+iPod too.... GPS reciever that plugs into the iPod.... all they would need to figure out is how to input a destination

[fixyourthinking]

If the developers are upset then why don't some of them develop for iPodLinux?

[fixyourthinking]

LOVED that game! called "Gyruss". got it for my psp or GBA cant remember.

Play it here for free- http://www.1980-games.com/us/old-games/java-games/gyrus.php

You can play it with iPodMAME

[donlphi]

can't just let any hack off the street do it. They don't want to turn it into a game machine... and in order to keep the new games a secret (which I predicted and never saw anything about it on ANY rumor sites) you have to keep the SUSPECTS in the clear... so you go with the less obvious choice. If these losers can't see that, they have got some serious issues.

I hope word gets out about who cried and apple NEVER lets them develop anything for them again. IMHO

[donlphi]

i personally would absolutely love to see Rosetta Stone language learning software for the ipod....


just like you have the Nike+iPod couldn't they do a GPS+iPod too.... GPS reciever that plugs into the iPod.... all they would need to figure out is how to input a destination

hopefully it wouldn't take as long as it does to input my name in TEXAS HOLD EM' POKER - talk about a daunting task! :D

[FloatingBones]

When we get a BlueTooth iPod, I think the killer iPod app is as a controller for a Keynote presentation. The iPod could provide an image of the current slide, preview of the next slide, or presenter's notes on the display. Furthermore, the iPod could host a variety of presentations and the presenter could pick and upload one of them to the Mac briefly before the presentation. The mac-with-iWork07-or-greater could become a standard platform configured and ready to go when the presenter arrived.

Note: the Salling Clicker guys could present a lot of this functionality today for the Palm. So far, they have provided only a vanilla application for the Palm as a Keynote controller: no slide preview, etc.

[donlphi]

I'm sorry, but this is a bizarre reaction. Platforms are there for software. You NEED a range of software to make a platform successful. It's like saying Apple shouldn't allow software to be made for Mac so to keep the 'perfect' operation. The more factors you introduce, sure stuff will go wrong, but it's up to the community and the skills of developers to make sure it doesn't. I just can't see your argument.

I see what you are saying and agree with most of it, but a lot of companies develop for a huge variety of platforms. If you have ever purchased software that was "Microsoft First" you know the mac version always plays second fiddle. I've been waiting for 2 years for Band-In-A-Box to do the update for their Apple version. They have a version that works, but it certainly doesn't have all of the great features the other has. Apple is just making sure the people are in it for the right reasons.

I don't think anybody wants to see Garry Kitchen's Game Maker for the iPOD any day soon.

[Tommyg117]

I'd really like to see the NES incarnation of ET for the iPod...

[840quadra]

When we get a BlueTooth iPod, I think the killer iPod app is as a controller for a Keynote presentation. The iPod could provide an image of the current slide, preview of the next slide, or presenter's notes on the display. Furthermore, the iPod could host a variety of presentations and the presenter could pick and upload one of them to the Mac briefly before the presentation. The mac-with-iWork07-or-greater could become a standard platform configured and ready to go when the presenter arrived.

Note: the Salling Clicker guys could present a lot of this functionality today for the Palm. So far, they have provided only a vanilla application for the Palm as a Keynote controller: no slide preview, etc.


That is a great idea, one which I would use for Technical presentations for my work. It would be nice to have imbedded videos work as well :)

[yersoocrust]

Is everyone forgetting Doom 2 on the iPod running Linux? The game itself ran pretty well, and there aren't too many controls that would make things complex.

[donlphi]

maybe a little NINTENDO or SEGA STYLE CONTROLLER that attaches on the bottom. Then we could play some classic nintendo, sega, and even atari games. That would be cool. I'm classicly trained, you start adding more than three buttons and I'm living in a world of hurt.

58162

It might be better if the controller actually covered some or all of the original iPOD controls so the balance is better. I can't imagine holding onto a lightweight controller with my iPOD about to tip off.

[angelneo]

I really don't think we can compare PSP and DS to the games on ipods now. Both are targetting 2 very different groups of people though there are some overlap. PSP and DS are mostly for people who really want to play games, while ipod, from how apple has position it, is more for "I got some free time" kind of games. If you have been trawling the web often, you would know there are tons of games created in this genre. I would think the developers who were hoping for the SDK belong more to this group of people who often create online web games (eg popcap)

[JeffDM]

By allowing them access to the SDK they are also allowing them access to something all the other music download sites what access to their DRM.

I doubt that the SDK would allow the developers any access to the DRM system. I'm pretty sure that the iTunes store adds DRM after the fact.

When Apple does something new that needs the involvement of third parties, they seem start with a very select number of companies and a limited title selection, like they did with TV last year, movies this year,and games this year. Expanding the program to more developers and companies comes later.

[JGowan]

I don't see Nintendo getting involved in development for another company's hardware. They did it in the old Atari days, and they've had a few things like the CD-i that haven't turned out well.Not quite the same thing, actually. CDi was made by Phillips and Nintendo simply licensed them their characters... Nintendo did not make the games. The 3 Zelda games were an abomination. And Atari signed on to build the Famicon hardware for Nintendo. As most know, originally Sony was signed on to create a CD based console for Nintendo (which later became the PlayStation when the deal fell through)...

You actually help my point,... with Atari, Phillips and Sony, we see that Nintendo is more than willing to work with other companies.

That said, I would love it if the Nintendo/Apple rumors actually came to fruition and Nintendo and Apple worked together. I love both of those companies!Ditto.

[JGowan]

Maybe if Apple opened up the amount of devs making games and kept them under Apple's scrutiny, there will be better offerings. While I like Bejeweled a lot, three-in-a-row games are a plague upon humanity. Most of the game offerings don't appear to be worth $5 to me. If history is any indication and Apple supports iPod games with all the fervor they support Mac games, this section of the iTunes store will be bulldozed before too long ;)KLAX is the ultimate "in-a-row" game ever!!!

[Babasyzygy]

I'm sorry, but this is a bizarre reaction. Platforms are there for software. You NEED a range of software to make a platform successful.

Demonstrably false: the iPod has certainly already succeeded without a range of software for it. Any other conclusion would require circular reasoning.

That said, I'm sure that people will figure out how to make games for the iPod independent of Apple.

Once they do, I'm eager to play Tempest.

[sunfast]

I would like to see some third party development for the iPod games. Adds a bit of price competition and somebody is bound to write the odd free/open-sourced one too.

[Hattig]

A few of the current games look quite interesting and suited to the iPod's input controller, I wouldn't mind trying them, but I only have a nano, and my gadget funds just got spent on installing a new shower :(

However the iPod's wheel isn't conducive to directional controls with one thumb, so a lot of traditional games will be difficult to play.

I could see a 3D game working - Doom or Heretic say, using the wheel to turn around.

[JeffDM]

I know that, but games are all linked to Apple's treatment of developers. I remember when I was younger (14?) I sent a letter to Apple asking if they would support Fallout 2 for the Mac. It came out years later, years! Apple called me (a lady, can't remember her name) to speak to me about it. Great, but nothing happened and it was years later when it came out.

I really don't see the connection. Apple doesn't make games for any platform. The Mac "supports" any game that developers will make for it. Apple isn't hiding any of the Mac API that is necessary to do this. The biggest detriment to games support is the abysmal market share.

I don't think this instance really applies yet because it's too new, uncharted waters. I don't think any other media player device also plays third party games like this does, so they needed to test out the waters first. PSP doesn't count, that's a game player that also works as a media player.

[JeffDM]

Demonstrably false: the iPod has certainly already succeeded without a range of software for it. Any other conclusion would require circular reasoning.

I think the question would be whether the hardware would be more successful if there was a good amount of software for it too.

[PlaceofDis]

And we've seen how many leaks from products for which there was an NDA.:rolleyes: If I remember correctly, wasn't that what started the whole ThinkSecret mess?

which is why i think Apple are leery of giving devs too much information. some of them actually need it, yes, but some of them abuse things too and spoil everything.

[kingtj]

Somewhat true, but you also have to remember that Apple is a software company just as much as it's a hardware company. They'd be stuck with a bunch of cosmetically interesting but rather pricy PCs running Windows if they weren't.

Expecting Apple to be completely "loyal" to you as a 3rd. party developer on their platform isn't realistic. You're, at best, potential competition. (Depends on if you happen to develop something Apple is interested in writing too.) Think of the recent fuss over Apple's introducing Dashboard widgets and Confabulator, for example.

Apple is a company that managed to hang on where almost all the other "non PC compatibles" failed (Atari, Commodore, T/I, Timex/Sinclair, etc.) - and they did it while keeping tight control of the "whole experience"; hardware, operating system, and software.

Right or wrong, they tend to have a mentality of "If you're such a good developer, come work for us. Otherwise, eh... we'd like to keep selling you our computers so we'll give you the basic tools you need to do your thing. But don't cross our path with your software creations or we'll stomp you!"


Actually they bring up some very good points. Apple doesn't feel it needs to be loyal to developers, and quite frequently to customers themselves. However, loyalty to Apple by few developers is one of the only reasons Apple is still around, period.

[mmmcheese]

I'm thinking that maybe Apple just isn't ready to make games a big thing on the iPod and maybe these games are just a test for the rumoured upcoming "iPhone." Once this device is released, then maybe they will open up an SDK for developers to make games.

[harveypooka]

I'm thinking that maybe Apple just isn't ready to make games a big thing on the iPod and maybe these games are just a test for the rumoured upcoming "iPhone." Once this device is released, then maybe they will open up an SDK for developers to make games.

Hmmm, maybe. A short selection maybe? Doesn't really make sense though since the iPod is huge - why would they 'test' something on the iPod for a smaller, likely to be less popular item? Maybe you are onto something though...:confused:

[mmmcheese]

Hmmm, maybe. A short selection maybe? Doesn't really make sense though since the iPod is huge - why would they 'test' something on the iPod for a smaller, likely to be less popular item? Maybe you are onto something though...:confused:

What I meant was test the development process on the iPod and see how well conventional games work with the iPod control scheme. They may not even have an SDK finalized, so rather than tell people to have at it with very little documentation, they just picked a few people to work with and later on will release the SDK when it is complete.

[inkhead]

For the frustrated developers out there don't be. Apple just sees this as a stop gap until January.

Then iPods, and "iTV" will be out that have completely different UIs. Apple will release SDKs for all of them. iTV will have widgets and stuff and so will the long rumored "real" video ipod. It's going to have all sorts of features along with the iPod phone.

There will be plenty of room for developers to sell applications on these platforms.

[aafuss1]

Ive got Tetris and its pretty good. In a way, I think Apple should of let developers try their hands at it, but, at the end of the day, only certain developers would do well as these are games. OR, Apple may have another use for the developers for the iPod, not for games.

Pac-Man works suprisingly well with the click-and very colorful graphics. My favorite game at this stage.

[aafuss1]

I bet Apple won't release a public program for developing games-unlike MS XNA.