More on iPod Updates [Archive]

AlphaTech

Feb 22, 2002, 11:00 PM

Before I got my iPod I had another mp3 player. It has been sitting inside the desk for over a year now. The sound qality wasn't all that good, unless I sacrificed song count to get it better. Also, the headphone jack was tricky. You had to put them in just right to get the sound anything close to good.

With the iPod, that has all changed. I am now using it everywhere. I am even pulling some songs off the net (never did that before tonight) so that I have them in my iPod. I am planning on getting the full cd's that contain the songs. It will be much easier to explain what I want to the people at the store if I let them listen to one song from the cd. Maybe I will even make a few converts there :D..

davidc2182

Feb 22, 2002, 11:12 PM

I know apple said there is no way of getting ur mp3s off an ipod once you put them on it, however i'm sure someone has developed a hack or program that would give you full access to the ipod's directory and such in order to retrieve the songs so if someone could reply with a link to some info like this i would greatly appreciate it !

AlphaTech

Feb 22, 2002, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by davidc2182
I know apple said there is no way of getting ur mp3s off an ipod once you put them on it, however i'm sure someone has developed a hack or program that would give you full access to the ipod's directory and such in order to retrieve the songs so if someone could reply with a link to some info like this i would greatly appreciate it !

Do a search at www.versiontracker.com. I believe they had a utility that makes all the songs visible there. That way you can pull them off as you want.

An easier way though, is to just modify your play lists within iTunes. Sine the iPod sync's with it, when you change the list in iTunes it gets done to the iPod.

You can always move the songs to another location on your hard drive if you want to keep them, put them onto a cd, or even another hard drive (internal or external).

Happy podding...

davidc2182

Feb 22, 2002, 11:31 PM

actually my whole problem was that i didnt know you couldnt pull the songs off after i put them on there, and i deleted the from my ibook to save space. So now my dillema is how to get them back on the mac when i need the ipod for storage, actually i'm thinking of going to kinkos or to an apple store and seeing if they will let me use a superdrive on their computer in order to burn all my mp3z to DVD - R, help please!

iapple

Feb 22, 2002, 11:32 PM

is a 10gig plus iPod with a built in mic (high quality) Then, you could record with the iPod, and transferr all your raw data via Firewire at blazing fast speed, even if it is Aiff format etc. A portable music recording studio in your pocket! A color LCD that could store pics and could connect with iPhoto would be nice too... Maybe it could be plugged into a TV with composite video out.

OK, I'm getting carried away here, but since Steve didn't call it iListen, the possibilities seem infinite!

MacAztec

Feb 22, 2002, 11:32 PM

I am pretty sure we will see something like this....

An iPod with Firewire, USB 2.0, and 10G HD. It will not be capable of recording CDs, because every Apple Item can do that. It will have sound out ports to hook up you iPod to your stereo and play your music.

AlphaTech

Feb 22, 2002, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Mac_User
I am pretty sure we will see something like this....

An iPod with Firewire, USB 2.0, and 10G HD. It will not be capable of recording CDs, because every Apple Item can do that. It will have sound out ports to hook up you iPod to your stereo and play your music.

I would say FireWire 2.0, and zero USB. You already can connect it to your home stereo with a cable from either radio shack or someplace like Cambridge Soundworks. I picked up a headphone to left/right RCA adapter for a few dollars back when I got my first PowerBook G3 with the dvd player so that I could output to a vcr in stero sound. You can use the same item on your iPod.

Xapplimatic

Feb 23, 2002, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by whfsdude
now why would they put in a CD-RW it makes no sense because all the new macs have them.

The post was misread.. They mean that it will connect directly and can burn using an external firewire drive.. and it does make sense because not everybody wants to drag their computer, but they could drag a firewire CDRW out into the field.. some of them are darn small now.. hmm.. buspowered??
THERE WILL NOT BE A BURNER -IN- THE IPOD.. the whole Steveness of it says it will remain small as it is.

sjs

Feb 23, 2002, 07:45 AM

xapplimatic, you are exactly right about the current form factor. It is beautiful and elegant. If it gets bigger than pocket size its not the iPod and I won't buy one.

Please educate me: how could I get photos off my digital camera into an iPod? Firewire...USB?
Is there any reason this couldn't be included in an upcoming revision?

Mike Ball

Feb 23, 2002, 07:59 AM

;) It seems to me Archos is ahead of the game at the moment. 20GB hard drives, USB 2.0 which I think is about as fast as firewire and the crucial difference - you can record with the inbuilt microphone or plug a microphone into it. The as yet unreleased multimedia centre I believe might be able to do even more.

To me it's the sound recording they left out of ipod that really makes it less useful than it could be. Dictaphone use, in schools portably recording children and then downloading sound files to flash for online presentations are two examples as a teacher I would find really useful. Digital hub, recording sound via a microphone is something they seem to have forgotten about. Archos is the one for me at present.

Biggles

Feb 23, 2002, 08:51 AM

Right now the iPod is too expensive for me. If the current form dropped to $299, i'd be very very interested though. However, what I would truly like to see in the "iPod+" is a color LCD, a 10 gb HD, and quicktime installed into the OS. That way I could carry nice, small copies of a movie of two on my iPod. And maybe I could still fit a few songs too. if this could sell for $449...o god it would be awesome.

An FM tuner and a microphone are great ideas too.

Taft

Feb 23, 2002, 11:43 AM

I have doubts about the iPod's capability to burn CDs. First, does the iPod beefy enough processor to stream the data bits to a CD recorder? If so, how fast could you burn.

Second, what would be the real benefit of having this capability in the iPod. The iPod must be connected to a Mac to make it useful and I think just about all of the Macs currently being sold have CD burners. Do people really need to burn CD's on the go? What would you use this for? The only thing I can think of is burning CD's for your friends (stealing). Anything else I can accomplish with an adaptor or something (tape drive adapter, radio broadcasting adapter, 1/8" jack cord).

Maybe I'm just not a visionary...

Matthew

IndyGopher

Feb 23, 2002, 12:12 PM

No, I don't think it's a lack of vision.. I think you're exactly right. The main use for an iPod that can burn CD's is to pirate music. Other uses would be as a CD-r for people with iMac DV's with DVD or CD drives, or people with B&W G3's or early G4's that had CD or DVD drives. (Powerbook G4 rev A's as well) but I find it hard to believe that anyone who has one of these machines (I have 2 that fall into this list) who has a want or need for a CD burner hasn't bought one yet. For a LOT less than the proposed cost of an iPod with CD-R.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by IndyGopher
No, I don't think it's a lack of vision.. I think you're exactly right. The main use for an iPod that can burn CD's is to pirate music. Other uses would be as a CD-r for people with iMac DV's with DVD or CD drives, or people with B&W G3's or early G4's that had CD or DVD drives. (Powerbook G4 rev A's as well) but I find it hard to believe that anyone who has one of these machines (I have 2 that fall into this list) who has a want or need for a CD burner hasn't bought one yet. For a LOT less than the proposed cost of an iPod with CD-R.

Right on target. I have the rev. a TiBook and picked up a new burner recently (had one that I sold so that I could get the new one). If I want to burn cd's I will use the computer along with Toast to do it. Connecting a burner to an iPod is just silly, unless you are chaining them since we only have the one firewire port on the G4 powerbook.

SPG

Feb 23, 2002, 12:35 PM

Bah Humbug! Up the HD capacity, and add the rest as optional firewire add-ons. You all thought $399 was too much? Wait 'till they add an FM tuner, microphone(which will need an encoder), burner app, color screen, etc. What do you think that will cost? Apple should add software improvements and the new larger capacity drive if they can do it for the same price. Remember what everyone was bitching about when it came out? price.

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 23, 2002, 01:51 PM

i think the most realistic new features are firewire2, a bigger drive, and a mic.

if the ipod can burn it would be too slow to make it useful. and apple has really been careful to avoid being seen as advocating piracy.

a color screen teamed up with quicktime would be nice for me but i dont think it would be widely useful until digital cameras and digital camcorders use firewire as standard. those of us who find it currently useful are probably wanting to view pirated videos which are not as wide spread as mp3s and require some serious bandwidth to collect. besides this is currently illegal and apple has tried to avoid being associated with piracy (although it seems clear apple is on our side). until the laws become rationalized (which might be never) no movies on your ipod.

if you want to use the ipod to store digital photos then you need a usb port (unless there is a usb to firewire adapter) since nearly all digital cameras are usb. i dont think we want another port on the ipod. so until we get firewire cameras i think iphoto capability is unlikley.

sorry to be a voice of reason here, but apple is just too far ahead of the rest of the market to make most of these ideas useful. until the rest of the world catches on all apple can deliver is a bigger drive and a mic.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 02:03 PM

I think I saw a firewire device that you can put some of the digital media into. Maybe use that, if your camera uses the correct type that is, and just plug it into the iPod. Apple could put something in one of the updates that would allow for viewing the image formats used by digital cameras. I don't know how much power is required by that device, but it is bus powered and I supposed there could be a way to slide the files to the iPod in a future software update.

That wouldn't promote movie pirating, just another way to use your iPod. On the road shooting a ton of digital pictures, store them on your iPod and keep on going. I think people would love that, since they wouldn't need to get the huge media sizes anymore, just the iPod. When they get back to their laptop, or home Mac, they could then download them to the computer and play with them.

I think that would be a great update (software mostly) :D

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 23, 2002, 02:15 PM

Alpha: my point was that cameras are nearly all usb now. ive never even heard of a firewire camera. so there would have to be a usb to firewire adapter in order to use it with an ipod and this is less than elegant. also we could add a usb port to the ipod but that would be difficult to fit in and would also be something less than elegant. until they make digital cameras with firewire as the standard apple will not support iphoto on the ipod (there just no way of easily getting your photos onto the ipod).

since we cant ue it for photos until the digi cam boys get their act together the only use we would have for a color screen and quicktime would be to view pirated movies and tv shows we captured. this is not mainstream is illegal and would not be supported by apple unless lots of people had these types of files.

im not saying it wouldnt be nice to use my ipod to store tons of photos (i can only take 10 photos using my 128mb chip!), im saying if i cant connect my camera to it then who cares if it has iphoto capabilities.

Biggles

Feb 23, 2002, 02:40 PM

iTunes had a revision so it would sync perfectly with the iPod, so why couldnt iPhoto? Apple should just have iPhoto 2 with the same auto-sync capabilities that iTunes 2 has. Plug in iPod, and let iPhoto 2 download all your pics to it.

And by the way, I was thinking about quicktime movies a little more. It just would be stupid to do that. Imagine watching a movie on a screen that small. I mean pictures are bad enough that small (they would still be ok though), but movies?

...it could have some PDA features though...
:)

Biggles

Feb 23, 2002, 02:47 PM

krossfyter

Feb 23, 2002, 02:55 PM

why must there be revisions to everything? why cant they just get it right the first time?

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
why must there be revisions to everything? why cant they just get it right the first time?

Because technology is constantly changing, improving, evolving. Apple did a great job on the current iPod, but people are thinking ahead to what will come out next. Just like we do with the current line of computers from Apple... What will the next processor speeds be, when are they going to change the case again, when will Firewire 2 be out?? All valid questions and do not bash Apple in any way, shape or form. UNLIKE questions to m$... when will windowz be secure, when will you stop being such an evil empire??? The lists go on for both cases.

The easiest thing for Apple to do, and keep the cost either the same or to drop it, would be for an increase in the capacity of the iPod and a software update. The software would be the cheapest, and can apply to all of the iPod's out now, and in the future. Increasing the drive size will only affect people that do not (yet) have an iPod.

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 23, 2002, 03:02 PM

Biggles: im sure apple could easily do what you speak of. i was referring to the ability to connect a camera to the ipod and thus use it for storage of photos. apple could easily do what you suggest and have you plug your ipod into your mac and have it synch your iphotos onto the ipod. im just not sure what the use of this would be. as it is now you can put anytime of file onto your ipod and use it as a data shuttle im not sure why you would want your photos automatically synched to your ipod but perhaps im missing something.

i think most people mostly wanted to boost their digital camera storage by being able to download their files from the camera to the ipod while in the field and thus continue taking pictures. this would be wonderful, but unfortunately digital cameras use usb not firewire, so no go.

krossfyter: i wont even dignify that with a response.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 03:03 PM

As for Biggles request for pds features in the iPod.... not bloodly likely.

That market is small, and seems to be shrinking. If it ever grew again, and Apple thought that they could produce a product to compete with the rest, then they will release something. I would most likely buy one, but I would need to see if in person first, as well as get some feedback from people that already have one. That's what happened for me getting the iPod. I talked with a few people that have them, and then picked one up. It didn't hurt that I was in an Apple retail store, and there were many on the shelves.

If you haven't been to an Apple retail location yet, I recommend going to one. It is worth the trip.

krossfyter

Feb 23, 2002, 03:31 PM

thanks alpha tech... it was jut a curious question. i know about technology and it bettering itself every 18 months or less. i was just simply saying from that statement.... why cant they get an item out that does not have to be revised each month. i understand getting it better in a year and a half because thats the nature of technology....but comeone every month or 3? what gives. it just seems like they should cover all the possible flaws (that induce revisions in the first place) the first time around. there seems to be an alterior motive for this.....and the technology argument seems to be an excuse. i mean everywhere i turn apple is making revisions to everything....not that thats a bad thing in of itslef....but its bad when its every 3 months or less. you get my drift here. maybe im seeing this from the wrong angle i dont know. but i apprecitate and welcome your corrections. because Lord knows im not versed in this department and im sure you are..at least more then me.

ambitious lemon...while it seemed like a stupid question (on the surface) i meant other then what you first saw..

both alpha tech and ambitious lemon....im not trying to bash apple by the way. im just trying to uderstand them more because they rock.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 03:45 PM

The reason for the 3 month time frame you are talking about is the expo's. Peecee's get updated faster then that with faster processors and such. Apple has a more steady update path.

I don't expect to see anything other then software updates for the iPod until at least MWNY (over 6 months from it's release).

Apple also does updates as new items become available, such as the combo drive for the laptops.

krossfyter

Feb 23, 2002, 03:57 PM

okay alphatech....

but is what im thinking a valid concern or is it just bogus..or a failure to understand apple at this? im trying to see this from where you all are seeing this...since most of you are more knowledgeable on this then i am.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 04:21 PM

Apple typically releases updated hardware at the expo's, not between them (unless it is a minor revision or adding promised features). That is why it seems like they are changing things so much. With three expo's within a few months of each other it can make for a bit of insanity. Most people that I know, wait until after an expo before making a purchase. Unless it is software, which usually gets either free, or very reduced cost, updates. Where else can you update an OS that you picked up a few months ago for $20???

grrr223

Feb 23, 2002, 05:37 PM

Mac_User and Alphatech, What the iPod is missing is a Line Out. This is basically a headphone out jack that is set at an industry standard level that can be safely plugged into the RCA inputs on your stereo. It also tends to avoid a lot of circuits that the headphone out uses (like equalizing or even volume control) and is better quality. You really shouldn't be plugging a powered device into your stereo. And the iPod has a very impressive 15mW/channel amp, compare that to the 8-10 on most discmans or even the 3-5mW/channel that Panasonic has on some of their's (battery life of 180 hours doesn't come without a price). It was one of the major dissappointments in the audio world.

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 05:46 PM

grrr223, the line out function can be done either through the FM transmitter item from Dr. Bott (see it at http://www.drbott.com/), or by getting a 1/8" to dual RCA dongle from most stereo stores (Cambridge Soundworks or even Radio Shack). That allows you to connect it to the L/R input channels in most stereo's as well as some car systems (some have inputs on the face).

Why add another port when the function can be easily accomplished with either item??? Where would you suggest they put it??? The top is pretty much filled with the items in it now, and adding something to either the side or bottom wouldn't make much sense.

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 23, 2002, 05:52 PM

well put Alpha. i think apple needs to make the availability of these adapters better known. even include some of them as bto when purchasing an ipod maybe. apple currently offers non-apple crt monitors with the powermcs as a bto, and advertises custom tibook carrying cases. so showing off some of these adapters might be a good idea, let people know they are available.

thats 501. gonna get a avatar now?

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 06:06 PM

AmbitiousLemon, of course I will be getting the avatar, I just need to get something good, or evil... :D

Thank for the congrats... and to think, most of those posts have been since the start of 2002.

macfan22m

Feb 23, 2002, 06:45 PM

Well 10gigs would give you a hole lot more songs on it but What about the battery life I mean You think they can get a battery in that small thing that will play 10gig worth of songs......... And as far as burning using the firewire port and using a color LCD screen and so on that sounds more like a PDA not just a MP3 Player....

jadam

Feb 23, 2002, 08:52 PM

Ahhhh ALL of u are stupid, mini CD-Rs, have any of you guys seen mini CDrs, they are smaller than the ipod, and i just bought a pack of 100 for $15 on sale at microcenter, ohh yeah i saw the new iMac and it kicks ass!!

AlphaTech

Feb 23, 2002, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by jadam
Ahhhh ALL of u are stupid, mini CD-Rs, have any of you guys seen mini CDrs, they are smaller than the ipod, and i just bought a pack of 100 for $15 on sale at microcenter, ohh yeah i saw the new iMac and it kicks ass!!

The mini cd's only hold about 185MB. I have seen the top coating of those flake off. Also, forget about getting them to work in the slot loading drives.

If Apple was to somehow put a burner for that size disc into the iPod, it would be at least twice the weight, and at least an inch thick. I don't see that happening. And the cd's are 3-1/2" diameter. The drive has to be larger then the actual disc. That includes the case and all hardware to make it work. The current iPod is under 2-1/2 inches wide which is about 1" LESS then the discs you are referring to.

Biggles

Feb 23, 2002, 09:44 PM

About the iPhoto dealy, I know my dad would love to carry pictures around with him. Of course a color LCD would be required, but the simple fact that he could carry around pictures of his kids AND MUSIC would be a dream come true for him. People just have different wants.

About the PDA, i was just being sarcastic (note the :) ). I dont want nor need a PDA. It's just that you guys get in such a "tizzy" when anyone speaks those three letters that i felt i need to add a reference for comedy's sake.

All i want if 5 gigs of music for under $300.

oldMac

Feb 23, 2002, 11:24 PM

It would be interesting to see an iPod that could encode audio. While the processor used in the current iPod has the ability to encode MP3s, this has remained a dormant feature.

Probably too many issues with piracy and ticking off the music companies to see that feature enabled with an input jack.

However, the iPod having encode capability, it's probably likely that we'll see a microphone at some point. That wouldn't ruffle any feathers and would add a useful feature at minimal cost.

CalStudent

Feb 24, 2002, 02:02 AM

Apple will not put CD burning capabilities in the new iPod. The new iPod will simply have larger drives, 10 and maybe 20 gigs. As for color LCD and photo storage capabilities, I seriously doubt the color LCD but Apple is smarter than you think about photo storage. They will not personally create the software for photo storage capabilities but will allow the hacking community to take care of that. Writing software is a pain in the ass to do especially for tech support and to constantly update. Also, this strategy will keep apple's software engineers free while increasing the iPod's appeal. This is the same reason why Apple has no problems with that one company (sorry i cant recall the name) to create software for Windows users to sync their computers with the iPod. In the end, they will have to purchse the iPod from Apple but go elsewhere if they run into software problems. Also, forget about playing MPEGs and outputting it to your TV. Not only is this idea stupid, but the drives run at very low RPMs to conserve battery life.

Here's why Apple will not put CD burning and other capabilities in the new iPod:
1)Apple does not want you stealing music.CD burning would just make trading mp3s that much simpler.The music industry is Apple's best friends, just take a look at their commercials or the Quicktime videos about the iPod and iMac.

2)It's just not Apple's style to create an all-in-one. They have made it clear that they want their computers to be a digital hub to your digital lifestyle, not the iPod. The iPod is simply one of those items in your digital lifestyle. Apple is not like Sony.

3)Simplify. Simplify. Simplify.

Here's what Apple should put into the new iPod:
1)Mic. If they want to really win the education market back, they must market an MP3 player with the capability of recording lectures. With the audio input removed from the new line of desktop macs, its now a pain in the buttocks (if not impossible) to input sound from a minidisc player to the mac. Also, even using the sound input, the sound inputting lasts as long as the track im inputting (that's 1.5 hours for a lecture that lasts 1.5 hours) for a minidisc. If the iPod could simply encode to mp3 format and then transfer the file to the desktop comp, that would be a gift from Allah.

2)Radio.A simple digital radio isnt too hard to implement.

3)Titanium case. There have been many complaints about the current case. They need to make it elegant while strong.

4)Optical digital output. Imagine an iPod connected to a high end stereo system. Not only does this keep the iPod simple, it keeps it grounded to its original function: play music. Lots and lots of it.

Thanks all for listening.

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 09:10 AM

CalStudent...

You started off pretty good, but then went south on the rest of your post.

What you think Apple should put into the iPod would destroy it's form factor. Have you actually SEEN an iPod??? If you had, you would realize that there is no good place to put a mic that isn't being used already. There are products out there to give you audio input jacks for any Mac that didn't ship with them, if you REALLY NEED it.

How many MP3 players out there have actuall AM/FM tuners inside them, AND are even close to the same dimensions of the iPod??? The tuner, again, would destroy the current size of the iPod, making it larger and going away from it's allure.

I have no complaints with my iPod's case, it is BOTH strong, and good to look at.

Optical output is another plug that not many people, if any, would use. Considering how most readily available optical cables are 2 feet long, it would require more effort then it is worth. Just get the FM transmitter for the iPod and connect it to your stereo that way.

I hope you survive all the holes that I just put in your post... Kevlar vests should be standard issue :D.

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 24, 2002, 01:42 PM

CAL student: Go bears. no that thats out of the way. i have to agree with alpha on most of his points. but i know how it is when you start making a list like that. its easy to get carried away.

the Ti case i think a metalic look is possible (not soon). Not real Ti though, too expensive and no reason.

the mic, i really think apple needs to squeeve thhis in somehow. it seems like an essential feature. besides they have a remote control port they arent even using currently! get rid of that and put the mic there!

as far as connection to stereo and FM radio... well we already have these. drop by http://www.drbott.com/ and take a look. nice little site someone listed in one of these ipod type threads.

krossfyter

Feb 24, 2002, 03:12 PM

the iPod is fine the way it is. A larger hardrive is all it could use if you wanted to revise it. It serves its purpose well.

CalStudent

Feb 24, 2002, 05:02 PM

Apple does not cater to the low end spectrum of technology. An FM transmitter to connect to your stereo system is extremely archaic. Not only that, but its clunky. Imagine two pieces of hardware connected only by a wire. Apple will not go in the same direction as Sony on such an issue (such as those clunky external battery/remote controls that come with Discmans and MD players). To those of you who like your FM transmitter, that's fine, but Apple should also add optical output for desktop stereos (yes, a 2 foot cable probably wouldn't work too well for a full blown home theater and there would be no remote control for the iPod to change tracks).

As for the issue of the missing audio input for the desktop macs, the USB to audio inputs are horrible because in order to squeeze the type of info onto the available bandwidth of USB, the sound frequency range is narrow not to mention also the noticeable reduction in volume. And again, playing sound off the iPod and then inputting through USB sound adaptor would take the same amount of time as the length of the recording. But using FireWire, it would take mere seconds. If Apple can't put a mic into the unit, then simply add an audio input so people can add mics.

And on the radio issue, its just a little feature i'd like to see. Not passionate about radio though.

As for the form factor, Yes, i have seen an iPod but am waiting on buying one. Yes, they are beautiful. And I would buy them with or without the Ti case because the current case is also beautiful. I think adding an audio input for a mic would not change the size of the iPod by much. And it would really appeal to nerdy college students such as myself.

Thanks for all your replies. Also, Im new to macrumors forums and im just putting in my 4 cents. If you feel like bashing me, please do so without making fun of me and calling me a dork, cause i am a dork. And dorks are kewl.

Hlau

Feb 24, 2002, 05:22 PM

Can't they make a mic connected through Firewire? If Apple doesn't do, can't a 3rd party? If there is a market for it, then it's possible. Then the mic would work on old iPods as well, it would just need a software update.

And how about the remote, I think it's pretty important for a portable music player. Any ideas how it can be done?

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 05:28 PM

Have people really gotten so lazy that they want/need a remote for an item that fits in the palm of your hand already????

appleguy_nz

Feb 24, 2002, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by arn
Mac OS Rumors chimes in (http://www.macosrumors.com/) with their own rumors regarding updated iPods in the following months:

[i]If realized, the new iPod lineup would be something like this: $499 CD-RW Ultra-iPod w/10GB hard drivebeen rumors that (http://www.ipodhacks.com/article.php?sid=50) the iPod OS was capable of CD-R burning...

Where will they put the CDRW?

CalStudent

Feb 24, 2002, 07:04 PM

The market is probably too small to make a firewire mic. Also, with such a small market, any company would not find it reasonable to pay the royalties due to Apple for implementing FireWire.

This poses another question: Does anybody know if the reason why many hardware makers use "IEEE 1394" instead of using the word "FireWire" is to keep from having to pay royalties? Im unsure about this but i've noticed that Sony and Yamaha refuse to use "FireWire" and opt for "IEEE 1394."

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 07:12 PM

They use IEEE 1394 because that is the actual name of the protocol. I would say about 90% or better of peecee users wouldn't know that Firewire was the same thing if it smacked them upside the head.

The reason you just gave for there not being a firewire mic is also the same why I don't see Apple putting it into the iPod. Too few people would need it, or use it.

Ash

Feb 24, 2002, 07:24 PM

The official tech term of the protocol is IEEE 1394. Sony chooses to call it iLink because their executives refuse to market an electronic device with the word 'fire' in it. Afraid that the average consumer will be afraid that it'll catch on fire. Stupid, I know. I believe that everyone still has to pay Apple a small royalty, no matter what name they use (correct me if I'm wrong on that).

As far as new features, here are my thoughts:

1. Internal microphone - I think they will add it. It wouldn't be too big and I think they could fit it in. It would seem a useful addition and would appeal to the education segment that Steve likes to target (imagine: '1000 hours of lectures, in your pocket').

2. Radio - Maybe they'd add that. Probably less important than a microphone, but still pretty cool. I'm not really sure how small they could get the receiver, so it might affect the size of the device. Obviously the interface would be through the screen, with the scroll wheel perfectly emulating a turning dial on a radio.

Now, like someone else mentioned, keep in mind that it is called the iPod and NOT the iMusic or iMP3 or iPlayer whatever. So it seems that it is destined for a future beyond simply being an MP3 player. The question is, what part of the digital hub would it best serve next?

1. Storing/Playing Movies - I don't think so. The technology is just not ready for this to be feasible. Batter power, screen issues, and size issues all make this infeasible. Who would really want to watch anything on a 2in. screen? Maybe in 5 years, but not now.

2. Burning CD's (or DVD's or any media) - Don't think so. Seems to defeat the purpose of the iPod. It is positioned as the one device that you need to carry around with you. It's purpose is to store things and play things - not to create other media that store things and play things. Not to mention the fact that it would kill the size of the player. Maybe it could output directly to a Firewire CDR, but even that seems a little silly. Computers are around for a reason.

3. Storing/Displaying Photos - Aha. Very interesting. This seems to fit *perfectly* with the iPod's purpose. Like others have said, the ability to carry around all of your music AND all of your pictures would be unbelievable. Just add a color screen and you'd be set. People right now are paying ~$50 for a flash card that stores 64 or 128 meg of pictures. With a $500 color iPod, you could store 100 times that many pictures. Your family's entire collection of photo albums - in your pocket. Maybe even an A/V out to show slideshows on a TV (with music, of course). Add a USB 2.0 port (backwards compatible with USB 1.0) and you kill 2 birds with one stone - the ability for current cameras to transfer pictures (practically) infinitely to the iPod plus support for the other high speed standard. It would be tough to cram it all into a small space, but I have faith in the Apple Designers.

So add a 10gig harddrive, internal microphone, (maybe) radio, and a color screen to display photos, and you have the *perfect* consumer device for the digital hub. $500? I'd buy one today.

- Ash

Biggles

Feb 24, 2002, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Ash
So add a 10gig harddrive, internal microphone, (maybe) radio, and a color screen to display photos, and you have the *perfect* consumer device for the digital hub. $500? I'd buy one today.

- Ash

I like. Maybe they would have to add a centimeter to the iPod, but I'm ok with that

dualburn001

Feb 24, 2002, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by Biggles

I like. Maybe they would have to add a centimeter to the iPod, but I'm ok with that

it would be more like an inch

Dualburn001

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 08:34 PM

It would probably add to the thickness of the unit as well. All of which takes away from the appeal, and destroys the form factor of the iPod. Remember, Steve Jobs made comments about the size of it (believe he mentioned the deck of cards). We want adult sized cards, not ones for kiddies.

sjs

Feb 24, 2002, 08:39 PM

Ash is just about right on. I too would buy one.

Here is the key: the size of the market for a music-only iPod is evidently pretty big, but I am not in it. However, add iPhoto capability, particularly so I can substitute the iPod for memory cards...well, count me in. The market grows by a bunch.

Just think of the cool commercials:
A guy walks up to a friend, pulls out the iPod and shows pictures of his new baby (or whatever).

By the way, a 1gig memory card for your digital camera is over $1,100. Put that capability into the iPod and the market for memory
cards over about 128k dies (except for the poor wintel-addicts).

Oh, one last thought (don't kill me):
Why in the world wouldn't they put some PDA-type of capability into the above device? It's just a few bits of software...almost no add'l cost.
Once again, the potential market grows.

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 09:10 PM

Why do so many people want to convert the iPod into a PDA???

To really have PDA functionality it will take more then just a software update. If you want a PDA, then get a PDA, don't expect Apple to corrupt a wonderful product with converting (or perverting) it into one.

Maybe this analogy will help it to sink in... You have a tv, cable ready, you get your normal channels with it. But if you want to get the movie channels (and this is true in MA at least and probably more states too) you need to get a decoder/cable box. They are typically provided by the cable company. If you change companies, typically, you need to return theirs and get one from the new company, even if they use the same box. Would you expect the tv makers to allow you to upgrade the tv you purchased x years ago to make it so that you don't need the box???? Not gonna happen.

Apple has said it before... no more PDA products...

sjs

Feb 24, 2002, 09:31 PM

ok I don't own a PDA so maybe they do a lot of things that shouldn't be put on an iPod.

So try this one on:
I would love to be able to carry a few bytes of info, namely: addresses, phone #s and my schedule. As a self-employed business owner who is out of the office several times per day, this would be terrific.

As an adjunct to that here is another thought:
I already carry a cell phone in my pocket and I am not thrilled about that but its a necessity.
I really don't want to carry even one more device, but I sure wouldn't carry two more (iPod and PDA).

Ok, now you can flame me, but what would really turn me on is an iPod like Ash describes with calendar-stuff like I described AND its my cell phone. Seriously, I would gladly pay about $799 for that.

AlphaTech

Feb 24, 2002, 09:53 PM

They have PDA, cell phone combo devises. See the Handspring Treo for one. There are also PDA like add-on devices for many cell phones that allow you to keep info on them.

Check out http://www.handspring.com/ for the Treo.

I have a Motorla Timesport phone, which has a clip on organizer that ads many PDA type functions. It is also available for others in the Startac family as well... details at http://commerce.motorola.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=277&prmenbr=126&accessories_cgrfnbr=22&zipcode=&phoneID=&search_string=29,238320,24,26,27,28,25&type=217947

I carry my cell phone with me, and my pager for work (so that I can receive severity pages) all day at work, Monday thru Friday.

When it comes to small tech devices, I prefer to have ones that are as small as is reasonable (some phones are just too small for me). I am about to order up one of the carry cases that will allow me to carry my iPod anywhere I want to as well as on my belt.

CalStudent

Feb 24, 2002, 10:17 PM

Will you guys stop with the whole PDA business already? In order to have PDA capability, you need a large screen. And people relate PDA with thinness. Not only that, but the PDA market is shrinking. Plus, if Apple really wanted to create a PDA, they would do so. Why make a PDA/iPod that sells for $500 when you can make an iPod for $400 and an iPDA for $300?

I would like simply an iPod that plays music and maybe record lectures. And maybe display and store photos.

Apple does not want to complicate the market by creating too many options and products. If they put PDA capabilities into the new iPod as a standard, then they would surely raise the price. If they do, poor schmucks like me who simply want to listen to music will be forced to fork over $500-$600 for the extra PDA capabilities that I dont want. And what about options you ask? Apple does not want to complicate the market with many options. This is exactly what they did in the mid '90s with the Performa 6400, 6500, 6116CD, 6115, 6114, the Quadra Series, not to mention the array of processors such as the 601, 603, 603e, 604, 604e, etc, etc. They nearly repeated this mistake with the slew of iMacs with colors, processor choices, and even a Special Edition whose price went against what the imac originally stood for, which was an economic computer made for first time users.

SIMPLE. is that too much to ask? The problem with technology is not that they can't do enough for our lives. It's simply that we ask too much of them. Why not everyone here simply email Apple and ask that the new iPod also include an electric razor cause thats what I'd like to see. And instead of the usual buzzing sound that a razor makes, how about the electric razor play music while you shave. Now that would be worth $600.

-Cal Student, studying biology, premed.

Ash

Feb 24, 2002, 10:18 PM

I agree that having an MP3 player/picture viewer/cell phone/PDA would be cool.

BUT

It would cost $800 and the market for that high-priced device would be way too small. You can almost buy a laptop for that much. Plus, other than the screen, the devices don't really complement each other that well.

Instead, I'd produce 2 devices:

1. iPod (MP3 Player/Picture Viewer) - Primary focus is huge storage and display/playing. Simple navigation. Syncs with iTunes and iPhoto. $500 (mostly to pay for hard drive and screen).

2. iTalk (Cell phone/PDA/Wireless email device) - Primary focus is communication and organization. Imagine more of a cell phone with a PDA instead of a PDA with a cell phone. Similar to the Treo, but a better design. Slightly larger screen than current cell phones with a Blackberry (http://www.rim.com) type keyboard. Input via keyboard, stylus, or job wheel. Small hard drive and monochrome display. Syncs with iMail and iCalendar. $300 plus monthly service.

It seems to make sense to split these devices. If you're a 15 year old kid who wants an MP3 player, you don't need to pay for an overpriced cell phone that your parents won't let you use. If you're an executive, you might not have any use for an overpriced PDA that stores 1000 times more data than you could possibly put in it.

Wireless email is really the key to producing the cell phone. I used a Blackberry when my company would pay for it, and it was amazing. A whole new world. Schedule an appointment on your computer and the Blackberry would buzz you when it was time to go to it. Get bored during a meeting (or during class), take out the Blackberry and type a message. Receive email in the bathroom. It was great. The only thing that was bad is that I had to carry a separate cell phone. The pocket brigade got a little heavy.

- Ash

CalStudent

Feb 24, 2002, 10:57 PM

Krosfyter: Ay ay captain. It has gotten out of hand (or hook).

Hehe, I always wanted to be a pirate.

-CalStudent

krossfyter

Feb 24, 2002, 11:29 PM

by the way welcome to the boards cal studnet...

you seem like you are going to make a nice..interesting addition to these forums. please by all means express what you wish how you wish. looking forward to hearing more on what you have to say.
;)

swahilibill

Feb 25, 2002, 12:31 AM

What do you mean a CD writer drive for the iPod. the iPod is not even powerful enough to put a writer attatchable. Where do you people get your ideas?

swahilibill

Feb 25, 2002, 12:39 AM

anybody know where i can get any pictures of those iPad and iWalk PDA devices. I think people are yanking us but maybe they are coming out. I have an eMate, I love the PDA aspect, it is awesome, but its so damn big, I hate that.

krossfyter

Feb 25, 2002, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by swahilibill
anybody know where i can get any pictures of those iPad and iWalk PDA devices. I think people are yanking us but maybe they are coming out. I have an eMate, I love the PDA aspect, it is awesome, but its so damn big, I hate that.

Apple PDA? (http://www.brighthand.com/otherhandhelds/articles/iwalk.html)

j763

Feb 25, 2002, 01:36 AM

Here the iPod costs A$895 ($470.00 USD) and it's way too expensive! The iPod's fine as it is, just bring the price down. If the iPod retailed for A$599 ($300.00 USD) I'd buy one immediately!!

krossfyter

Feb 25, 2002, 02:04 AM

they should bring down the price on the original when they release the rev. b iPod.

assuming this happens.

AmbitiousLemon

Feb 25, 2002, 11:42 AM

Krosfyter: this IS getting out of hand. jeez. what happened to the voice of reason? out the door i guess. the weekend comes and all the reasonable people go home where they dont waste time on message boards.

People, listen to Alpha. you are all destroying the form factor of the ipod.
1) look the ipod already has a remote port. so either apple give us the remote
2) or take the port out and drop in a mic. with no loss of form factor.
3) there are plenty of third party revisions to connect to a stereo through firewire so no problem there. whats wrong with picking up a centimeter long adapter to connect to your stereo. apple is right on the mark here, let the third parties take care of this so they can concentrate on more important things.
4) USB2!?!?!?! um... no. try firewire2 sometime in the distant future. usb2 has far too many problems with it, in addition to competing with firewire. until firewire 2 rears its head no usb2.
5) the ipod ISNT just a mp3 player already! most people i know use it as a data shuttle. you can drop photos on it just as you can drop a startup disk on it. but being able to shoot and store photos... apple cant help because they doesnt make a camera and current camera makers have been stupid and havent delivered high speed transfer via firewire yet.

As for a pda. Id would be overjoyed by an apple pda. nearly all the tech is ready. use an ibm microdrive (1gig in a square inch) airport, firewire, touchscreen for stylus with newton style handwriting recognition. and thats all you need for a reva apple pda. more to come in revb.

but dont pervert the ipod into a pda. what i would like to see is some third party software. third parties could give us a small day planner/ addresses book for the ipod. i think this would fit in nicely.

you guys need to remember the third parties out there. let apple do its thing and let third parties take up the slack. why? because apple makes the product what it needs to be, and third parties pervert it into what a select group of people want.

mischief

Feb 25, 2002, 02:35 PM

What would I do with a name like iPod if I were Steve Jobs? I'd put it on a bootable device just big enough for all my iApps, a system folder, a few files and my utilities. Say 5-10Gb. If it works ONLY as an MP3 player while not hooked into a Mac then my Data is safe cuz it's all password protected through the OS X on the iPod and the iPod has no interface beyond MP3's anyway. At this point your wondering "Why the hell would I want a computer with no extra space and no actual parts?".

Remember meta-pad? A little device IBM came up with: Take your machine's brain with you and just click it into a pad, portable, base station or Tower and BINGO! Instant machine. The IBM product had a few flaws. How does the average consumer not lose, break or otherwise fubar the little thingy itself? What if I need more than the little guy can provide?

iPod fits this model nicely. It's just storage for all your "user specific" data.
If I get an iPod and (assuming Apple does a Browser to complete the iApps), move all the iApps onto it after installing X, move all my utilities and a small playlist of MP3's............I can simply install all my task-specific SW on task-appropriate HW at my various locations. This would allow people to eliminate their redundant SW and keep all their settings the same on EVERY Mac they use.Plug the iPod in, select it as boot disk, restart. Voila, I have MY machine plus whatever I have installed and stored on the machine it's plugged into. Better yet, all the data I don't want available about myself is locked away on the iPod, completely inaccessable while I'm using it for music.

CalStudent

Feb 25, 2002, 05:46 PM

Mischief, youre idea sounds great. However, it only sounds great to people like you. You can't simply come up with a product and expect it to sell. What you have to understand is that there are millions of us who wouldn't give a hoot about such a disk that can keep personalized info and make it mobile. Not to mention the millions of us who aren't that tech savvy (or if youre like me, you dont want to be tech savvy).

If anything, Apple will upgrade the iPod only in small increments and these small increments will have to be related somehow. Digital music and digital photography is a hot sector and they are a sector that overlaps quite well meaning the market who would likely use an mp3 player would also use a digital camera.

"If you don't expect too much of me, maybe you won't be let down." -Gin Blossoms

-CalStudent, Bio Midterm on Friday, March 1. Wish me luck guys. And please, dont post something so rediculous that I'll be compelled to reply cause i need to study.