Jobs on iPod, iTunes and Zune

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the 5th anniversary of the iPod, Newsweek spoke with Steve Jobs (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15262121/site/newsweek/) about the iPod, iTunes Store and Zune as a potential threat.

According to Jobs, one major reason for the iPod's success was its relative simplicity:

Look at the design of a lot of consumer products—they're really complicated surfaces. We tried make something much more holistic and simple.

Meanwhile, courting the music studios to distribute music through iTunes was an 18 month process, with them gradually coming over. During the negotiations, the initial limited distribution to the Mac platform only was seen as a positive feature.

"If we're completely wrong and you completely screw up the entire music market for Mac owners, the sandbox is small enough that you really won't damage the overall music industry very much."

Finally, Jobs was asked if he was worried about Microsoft's upcoming media player (Zune) and its "community" features:

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

[spicyapple]

I wouldn't want a stranger poking around my song playlists whether they are jacked in or Zuned in. Other than the dubious wireless song sharing capability of the Zune, I don't think it competes at all feature-wise against the iPod and won't pose a threat to Apple's delicious dominance.

[narco]

My favorite part:

Microsoft has announced its new iPod competitor, Zune. It says that this device is all about building communities. Are you worried?

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

Fishes,
narco.

[iJaz]

Me sending a song to someone else who can play it 3 times, what a great community! :rolleyes:

[dhollister]

Haha, that's the best part. And it's so true! Walk your ass over to that girl and sit next to her and share your music with her. Screw this "beaming it over" nonsense.

[AoWolf]

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

I like this guy :-)

[spicyapple]

Screw this "beaming it over" nonsense.
Yes, that is a very nerdy/geeky thing to do. "Zune"-ing music wirelessly is only something geeks can come up with, whereas Steve's suggestion of sharing earbuds is so much cooler and, dare I say it, sexually suggestive! ;)

[mufflon]

I like this guy :-)

Yeah he can really make analogies which really sticks - as well as leading us the faithful few towards the holy land of home electronics - integration with your integrity intact (one of the things with the design of the macintosh was that steve wanted the computer to look more like a human - some of the more esoteric ideas such as computer ears on the sides might have been scrapped, but I believe the user/computer interface is more like communication between two humans rather than a human and an inanimate computer)

[jackc]

Yeah, that's a good move. Do you think some girl will want to listen to Metallica with me?

[stainlessliquid]

You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear
Before getting slapped... I guess if youre a billionaire you can shove earbuds into a strangers ear, but here in Real World USA the results would not be pretty. Do that with your girlfriend, I dont think ANYONE would want a stranger theyve known for 1 minute coming up to them and putting crap into their ear.

[shadowx]

Before getting slapped... I guess if youre a billionaire you can put earbuds into a strangers ear, but here in Real World USA the results would not be pretty.

Girl troubles?? ;)

[illegalprelude]

By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

hahaha awesome :D

[®îçhå®?]

Nice one Jobs. The zune's sharing looks rubbish and he told them that it is. It is also nice to see that the 5th anniversary has come and the ipod is stronger than ever.

[spicyapple]

Did anyone love this quote?

Jobs was equally unconcerned about the prospect of the iPod losing its cool factor as it becomes increasingly ubiquitous.

"That's like saying you don't want to kiss your lover's lips because everyone has lips. It doesn't make any sense," said Jobs.

[sam10685]

I like this guy :-)

where would we be without him?

[StinktOldC]

where would we be without him?
in PC land

[monke]

where would we be without him?

Stuck with Ctrl-Alt-Delete :rolleyes:

[CHROMEDOME]

Did anyone love this quote?


Yea I saw that...hahahha

Does Jobs have a new love intrest maybe???

[jellomizer]

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

So in other words. With Zune you can share music wirelessly. With an iPod you can increase the chances of getting to the next base! That is a great feature!

[StinktOldC]

"That's like saying you don't want to kiss your lover's lips because everyone has lips".

Steady on Steve!

[mkjellman]

that quote is why apple has a following. jobs is a pretty normal guy and uses technology to help his life not control it. what a smart smart comment.

[mufflon]

Did anyone love this quote?

That was definetly a really sweet quote, steve jobs must really been on a emotional rampage - really nice considering all the stale and boring business related interviews (featuring other people than steve jobs that is) that one is able to read from time to time - a nice spark of sunshine from a dark sky.

[jackmac13]

The earbuds thing would make a great commercial. Imagine the earbud guy leaving with a girl while the other girl is still waiting for the guy to download. Now, no girl wants a guy to finish early but she doesn't want him to take forever either. It could be pretty funny.:D

[NewSc2]

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

[wyatt23]

i guess Steve is getting past making apple the trendiest company on the planet... now he's working on being the most smooth. :cool:

[jettredmont]

Before getting slapped... I guess if youre a billionaire you can shove earbuds into a strangers ear, but here in Real World USA the results would not be pretty. Do that with your girlfriend, I dont think ANYONE would want a stranger theyve known for 1 minute coming up to them and putting crap into their ear.

If you're unable to walk up to a girl and ask her if she wants to listen to a cool song, but more than ready to semi-anonymously ask the same thing by connecting to her music player ... well, I guess the Zune might have a market with the socially inept looking for others who are socially inept.

But, in my opinion, if I were to ask someone to listen to a cool song, I'd want to strike up a conversation first, maybe introduce the song, etc. Sending a message like "Someone wants you to listen to something. Accept?" just soounds creepy.

And, no, if asked to listen to something by someone unwilling to identify themselves, my answer would be "no", period. That kind of person is too likely to send me heavy breathing or a breathless rant on global consumerism spliced into the middle of a Britney Spears track (the rant might be okay by itself, but ...)

So, no, I see no advantage in that scenario at all.

[Doctor Q]

Is there any medical concern with sharing earbuds?

[motulist]

Can you imagine what this wireless zuneing feature will be like in the real world? I bet they haven't come up with a way to make the wireless feature only try talking to the zune you want it to, so it'll try talking to any other zune within the proximity of the wireless transmission capability.

You'll be walking down a crowded street in a hurry trying to get your music playing when all of a sudden a box will pop up over your interface "User s8trBoi wants to send you the song "Skate or Die" by "The Snotty Adolescent Band." Do you want to accept?" You think wtf? Then suddenly it disappears and a new box pops up that says "Connection Lost, would you like to try again? [retry] [cancel] [stop] [close zuneing port]" After this keeps happening you click [close zuneing port], which turns off the wireless capability on your zune. Then you can't share songs anymore, and the pref to turn it back on will be buried under a complex interface. So the wireless capability will be used for all of a week for most people.

Then maybe spammers will realize that this is a whole new fertile ground for their sludge. So you'll be walking down the street and suddenly a box will pop up over your interface that says "User "*BUY CHEAP VIAGRA*" wants to send you the song "ONLY 5 DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!!!" by "WWW.WE-R-SPAM.COM" Do you want to accept?"

Zune sounds like a great new world. Thanks Microsoft.

[jettredmont]

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

I agree. But, I don't think the "social networking" aspect will fly, when combined with a restrictive DRM scheme. I too like the idea of being able to sample a friend's musical library, but there is too much fine print with the Zune implementation. As for the specific "it will get you dates" selling point, as Steve said, that's pure crap.

IMHO, Steve is really good at deconstructing the bad approaches to cool technology others promote. As with video, prior to the iPod with video (and even after) I saw several ads showing people out on a busy city street watching videos on their no-name video player. It was, and continues to be, a stupid idea for a way to use a portable video device, yet since that's what's being marketed it gives Steve a nice target for mockery.

[Mr. DG]

I'm sure the iPod will have sharing capabilities eventually. But the technology isn't there for quick enough transfers yet. When it becomes a non-geek activity that's when it'll be in the iPod, i.e. when it's as easy as sending an SMS message. In fact, sharing seems like an activity more suited to phones than iPods at the moment.

[nagromme]

I can't agree with Jobs on this one.

In this era of WTDs (wax-tramsitted diseases), there will be no sharing of my earbuds!

But if the person has a player, Zune or anything, then they also have their OWN earphones :)

[spicyapple]

Is there any medical concern with sharing earbuds?
No more than sucking on someone's tongue. :)

[jettredmont]

I can't agree with Jobs on this one.

In this era of WTDs (wax-tramsitted diseases), there will be no sharing of my earbuds!

But if the person has a player, Zune or anything, then they also have their OWN earphones :)

Okay, if you're hitting on girls who you believe might possibly be carrying exotic diseases in their ear wax ...

On the other hand, maybe someone should start selling "earbud condoms". Yeah, the sound is muffled and less than satisfying, but at least you won't get a WTD!

[Mr. DG]

Another point - is that article cut down from a larger piece? The interviewer did a really bad job of following up the tough questions - he just let Jobs spin the answer (very skilfully, granted) into an Apple advert. No pushing for answers, just a change of topic.

[RichP]

Steve is smooth, and he gets the point.

There is nothing more to ruin the moment, whether it be with a pretty girl, or with someone you are having a friendly convesation with, than to start fumbling with MENUS. The spontanity is lost once 2 people need to remove their Zunes from their pockets, go through a few menus, and then send a song over wireless. THEN listen to it. ALONE.

Wireless will come on iPod when its good and ready. It isnt right now.

motulist: you are right on cue. You just described what will be the real Zune experience.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

There's been a debate for years over the differences in users between Mac & PC. One postulation is that Mac people are more savvy and personable, and will do something like walk over to a girl and offer up an ear bud, while the PC person would be too socially awkward to do that. Hence the difference in Jobs' idea of "sharing" vs. Bill Gates' version. One is social, the other mechanical.

Whether it's a true stereotype is up for grabs, but I can't help thinking that Billy hates Steve for being the "cool kid" even after becoming the richest person in the world.

Haha, that's the best part. And it's so true! Walk your ass over to that girl and sit next to her and share your music with her. Screw this "beaming it over" nonsense.

[puckhead193]

HAHAHA, i'm guessing Gates never had his way with the ladies ;)
"NOOO I don't want to talk to that girl and ask for her phone number... instead i'll beam over mine number to her"

No more than sucking on someone's tongue. :)
hahahahahahahaha

[Lixivial]

Aww... love this quote:

Music is so deep within all of us, but it's easy to go for a day or a week or a month or a year without really listening to music. And the iPod has changed that for tens of millions of people, and that makes me really happy, because I think music is good for the soul.

What a nice interview.

[Jetson]

When you look at Steve Job's odyssey from being Apple's CEO, bringing in Sculley, getting stabbed in the back and booted from his own company.

Jobs goes off on his own, founds Next computer, develops innovative hardware, makes alliances with the likes of George Lucas, founds Pixar and comes up with hit movie after hit movie.

Meanwhile Apple goes through the dark ages, predictions of Apple going belly up, they beg Steve Jobs to come back to the helm.

Jobs returns to Apple, gets to work and turns the company around with some of the most inspiring products (iMac) and great market presence.

Then his team comes up with the marvelous iPod. The Macintosh lineup is arguable the best in the PC world.

Things would have been much less interesting if Steve didn't have to make this difficult trek. Sometimes what looks bad can be the beginning of something great if you don't give up.

[oingoboingo]

Before getting slapped... I guess if youre a billionaire you can shove earbuds into a strangers ear, but here in Real World USA the results would not be pretty. Do that with your girlfriend, I dont think ANYONE would want a stranger theyve known for 1 minute coming up to them and putting crap into their ear.

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D

[the-fish]

i guess Steve is getting past making apple the trendiest company on the planet... now he's working on being the most smooth. :cool:

I lol'd at that

[Detlev_73]

Microsoft has never, does not, and will never make a product with nearly a quarter of the 'cool' factor that Apple does. Microsoft may be the empresarios' top choice, but is dated, dull, dumb. Apple is innovative, young, and sexy.

"We are Apple. We have great products that work out of the box. Our technological distinctiveness will be adopted free of will by all. Resistance is not necessary: you're amazed at us." :rolleyes:

[BoyBach]

I like the "Job's Pulling Technique" - whip out iPod, insert ear-buds into lasses ear, adopt hopeful grin and hope she doesn't slap you!

Sounds like a typical weekend night-out in a valley's town. Sans iPod, of course.

;)

[clintob]

No more than sucking on someone's tongue. :)

I'm sorry... somebody had to ask this eventually. About how many times a day do you get an instant message or email from this forum with some kind of innane pickup line? :cool:

.
.
.
...by the way, my number is 555-21... (couldn't resist)

[stainlessliquid]

So how many people here have actually gone up to a girl youve never met and asked if she wants to share your sweaty earbuds? My guess is nobody, because its creepy as hell, its like holding hands with someone you just met that is neither your friend nor your date. It was just a PR response to a competitors product, I doubt jobs was being serious thinking people with ipods actually do stuff like that on a regular basis.

The Zune isnt really a way to pick up chicks either, I think it was more designed for friends to share music. Even having the debate is pretty pointless, its all marketting mumbo jumbo. Plus last time I checked you can share headphones with a Zune too.

[clintob]

HAHAHA, i'm guessing Gates never had his way with the ladies ;)

I have the sneaking suspicion Gates didn't have much trouble with the ladies... considering while most people were offering drinks, he was offering weekend trysts to remote islands off the cost of Fiji.

Or better yet, he could just offer the entire island.

[monke]

So how many people here have actually gone up to a girl youve never met and asked if she wants to share your sweaty earbuds? My guess is nobody, because its creepy as hell, its like holding hands with someone you just met. It was just a PR response to a competitors product, I doubt jobs was being serious thinking people with ipods actually do stuff like that on a regular basis.

The Zune isnt really a way to pick up chicks either, I think it was more designed for friends to share music. Even having the debate is pretty pointless, its all marketting mumbo jumbo. Plus last time I checked you can share headphones with a Zune too.

That's almost exactly his point, why would you need to send music to someone when you could just share headphones? MS is jusking asking for virus problems here.

[Konfabulation]

When you look at Steve Job's odyssey from being Apple's CEO, bringing in Sculley, getting stabbed in the back and booted from his own company.

Jobs goes off on his own, founds Next computer, develops innovative hardware, makes alliances with the likes of George Lucas, founds Pixar and comes up with hit movie after hit movie.

Meanwhile Apple goes through the dark ages, predictions of Apple going belly up, they beg Steve Jobs to come back to the helm.

Jobs returns to Apple, gets to work and turns the company around with some of the most inspiring products (iMac) and great market presence.

Then his team comes up with the marvelous iPod. The Macintosh lineup is arguable the best in the PC world.

Things would have been much less interesting if Steve didn't have to make this difficult trek. Sometimes what looks bad can be the beginning of something great if you don't give up.
That is sooooo true. Without Jobs, apple would be in the *******.

[Bonte]

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D

If they both need a Zune to share the music i'm sure both have there own earbuds, the girl or boy can use there own earbuds so there's no body fluids being shared and it works between an iPod and a Zune and all the rest. Wifi sharing is useless.

[Shotglass]

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.
Bear in mind, Jobs is making fun of wireless capacities today. Apple probably waited for the right time to release the "video" iPod (IMHO they could've waited for at least 640x480), so it's not as bad as you describe it.

[jholzner]

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

Actually, I believe he said portable video was a waste of time becuase there was no content to PLAY on these devices...and back then, there wasn't. Apple released their iPod with video AND the ability to actually use it.

[Konfabulation]

Bear in mind, Jobs is making fun of wireless capacities today. Apple probably waited for the right time to release the "video" iPod (IMHO they could've waited for at least 640x480), so it's not as bad as you describe it.
There are other wireless capacities that wuld be much more useful, for example, wirless bluetooth headphones. (Like logitech makes, but without the external transmitter)

[QCassidy352]

wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

wireless headphones, sure. That's coming, and soon. But beaming songs to other people? No, I don't think it will ever be a very popular idea. I want to listen to my music, not the guy's next to me. That's why I own what I own and not something else. Besides, if I'm wearing headphones that probably means I'm not with anyone I know, and I'm certainly not going to be sharing music with strangers because it would just be weird.

[rtdunham]

...or a breathless rant on global consumerism spliced into the middle of a Britney Spears track (the rant might be okay by itself, but ...)

LOL. Thank you jettredmont, and all the others on this forum, that make this such an entertaining place to spend a little time.

[MattyMac]

Hmm...5 year anniversary! Anyone thinking what I'm thinking? An anniversary iPod or better yet, the much anticipated real iPod video! It's a possibility.

[p0intblank]

Haha, I love how Steve talks. His quotes are definitely memorable. :)

[snakeanthony]

Yeah, I was with him up until this line:
I think that music faded in importance for a while, and the iPod has helped to bring music back into people's lives in a really meaningful way. Music is so deep within all of us, but it's easy to go for a day or a week or a month or a year without really listening to music. And the iPod has changed that for tens of millions of people, and that makes me really happy, because I think music is good for the soul.

Umm, yeah, the iPod brought music back into the limelight. Thanks Steve Jobs, in the 90s I was worried music would go away forever, even though it's existed since the dawn of man. :rolleyes:

[Mammoth]

Yes, that is a very nerdy/geeky thing to do. "Zune"-ing music wirelessly is only something geeks can come up with, whereas Steve's suggestion of sharing earbuds is so much cooler and, dare I say it, sexually suggestive! ;)
As much as I would like that feature for file transfer, it is too geeky and I'm sure it will be too cumbersome for your average consumer to use.

[Eraserhead]

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

Nah, I think Job's is right that fact that you don't have wireless sharing gives you the "excuse" to get closer, which is always useful ;).

[MrCrowbar]

I actually like the idea of wireless communication on iPods. They could do it exactly like "sharing"in iTunes. Imagine you sitting somewhere in the underground or bus, taking out your iPod, checking "other iPods" on the main menu, browsing through the playlist and thinking: "hey, this guy/girl has a good music taste". You could see what she/he's listening to ("now playing") and listen to it. And if you see the other person rocking his head to the same song you're hearing, you know it's the right one. And if this person happens to share it's profile (contact information), you can get the phone number etc...

Kinda like meeting people on the internet by their profile, but here you can just walk up to the person and go on from there.
Compatible car radios could receive the digital signal streamed from your iPod. No wires, no crappy fm-transmitted sound quality. :)

PS: "Can I put my earbud into your ear?" is kinda close to "can I put my p*nis into your v*gina?". So I guess girls could be offended.

[EGT]

Steve is great. :cool:

I'm curious. Just how "slow" (transfer speed) is the wireless on Zune?

[japanime]

Then maybe spammers will realize that this is a whole new fertile ground for their sludge. So you'll be walking down the street and suddenly a box will pop up over your interface that says "User "*BUY CHEAP VIAGRA*" wants to send you the song "ONLY 5 DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!!!" by "WWW.WE-R-SPAM.COM" Do you want to accept?"

Actually, the message will say "USER "bUy cH3aP V!@gr@" wants to send you the song "oNLY $5 DLRS per b ottl e!!!" Do you want to accept?"

But you had the right idea. :D

[Willis]

"It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable"

Stevie has a valid point. I might have to try that :D

[zephead]

I actually like the idea of wireless communication on iPods. They could do it exactly like "sharing"in iTunes. Imagine you sitting somewhere in the underground or bus, taking out your iPod, checking "other iPods" on the main menu, browsing through the playlist and thinking: "hey, this guy/girl has a good music taste". You could see what she/he's listening to ("now playing") and listen to it. And if you see the other person rocking his head to the same song you're hearing, you know it's the right one. And if this person happens to share it's profile (contact information), you can get the phone number etc...
That sounds like it makes more sense than Zuneing a song. Instead of somebody asking "do you want to listen to this song" and maybe the person is annoyingly persistent about you listening to it to the point where you want to clock him one for not leaving you alone, the person can look on another person's iPod himself if he so desires and if the other guy has sharing on. If Apple makes iPod sharing exactly the same as iTunes sharing, and figures out a way to keep the battery life up, then that's what people would want to get.

[mrcammy]

Typical machead responses on this thread:

microsoft wireless media player - aww that's sooo stupid...
apple wireless media player (when it comes out) - aww that's sooo cool...


now go drink your kool-aid everyone...:)

[Benjamin]

Steve is great. :cool:

I'm curious. Just how "slow" (transfer speed) is the wireless on Zune?

slower then handing over your earbud.

[MrCrowbar]

That sounds like it makes more sense than Zuneing a song. Instead of somebody asking "do you want to listen to this song" and maybe the person is annoyingly persistent about you listening to it to the point where you want to clock him one for not leaving you alone, the person can look on another person's iPod himself if he so desires and if the other guy has sharing on. If Apple makes iPod sharing exactly the same as iTunes sharing, and figures out a way to keep the battery life up, then that's what people would want to get.

How cool woukd it be to have one of these small programs so you can't only listen to the remote iPod, but download them. That would be a totally new way of pirating music :D

[twoodcc]

i'm glad that he's not worried, but you know he's gotta be at least a little worried. i'm sure he's got something else up his sleeve

[jobberwacky]

Is there any medical concern with sharing earbuds?
Just buy a red nano and you'll be ok :D

[bluedevil14]

oh steve jobs you make giggle so
but hes right, it is unbelievably nerdy to try and pick up chicks by beaming music over

[supremedesigner]

*gasp*

Steve said that Oct. 23.. that iPod will be 5 years old.. it sounded like to me that there might be vPod coming out that day! (or Tuesday) and that's a great news!!!! :)

vPod = Video iPod but i like this word a lot better!!

[timmillwood]

*gasp*

Steve said that Oct. 23.. that iPod will be 5 years old.. it sounded like to me that there might be vPod coming out that day! (or Tuesday) and that's a great news!!!! :)

vPod = Video iPod but i like this word a lot better!!

i think there maybe a media event, iPod Video, Macbook and one more thing.... Macbook Pro

[kresh]

Typical machead responses on this thread:

microsoft wireless media player - aww that's sooo stupid...
apple wireless media player (when it comes out) - aww that's sooo cool...


now go drink your kool-aid everyone...:)

When 60 million people are drinking the same kool-aid, common sense would tell you it's great and you should give it a try :)

edit: and before you say that MS has 90% of the computing environment and i should try that kool-aid because it must be great. I did try it and it's skunk water!

[OutThere]

I love the earbud comment...if you're close enough to a girl to wirelessly send her songs, you should be talking to her (assuming you're interested), not futzing with your Zune.

[ironjaw]

There's been a debate for years over the differences in users between Mac & PC. One postulation is that Mac people are more savvy and personable, and will do something like walk over to a girl and offer up an ear bud, while the PC person would be too socially awkward to do that.

Actually I was with some friends out one day at student bar, and i took out my ipod nano, and a girl came up to me and said "wow you've got an ipod nano as well - they are so cool, I've got a black one too." We fell into a convesation and she let me share her earbud so that she could let me hear some songs she like, and I did the same. :)

Lets just say someone got lucky that night!:p

[MacSamurai]

Oh come on... wireless ipods make so much sense...think of the iTv,would deffinately go good with a wireless ipod,and a sharing option wouldnt be so bad too.As a uni student the itunes share function was really good for when i wanted to listen to new music that i would have otherwise never listened to.Oh and the whole chick thing...man you have to be pretty lame to try and pull a chick with either of the options lol wireless or wired,tech rarely pulls anything lol

[Chundles]

Lets just say someone got lucky that night!:p

You found $10 on the way back home alone?

[whooleytoo]

In this era of WTDs (wax-tramsitted diseases), there will be no sharing of my earbuds!


Perhaps future headphones will have 3 buds: left, right and public? :p

Or (and here's a radical idea) why not put a small speaker on the player itself?

[AidenShaw]

Lets just say someone got lucky that night!:p
Icky... :o

[Jetson]

One thing I really hate about this Zune thing is the amount of free publicity Microsoft has gotten.

For months on end we've been bombarded with Zune-friendly "news" articles calling it an "iPod killer". Even before Microsoft had a name for it, before they had any sort of design for it, while it was still vaporware, the media kept hammering home, "iPod killer" while seeming to drool over the prospect.

There's STILL no actual product on the store shelves.

It's disgusting, really.

[Play Ultimate]

Can you imagine what this wireless zuneing feature will be like in the real world? I bet they haven't come up with a way to make the wireless feature only try talking to the zune you want it to, so it'll try talking to any other zune within the proximity of the wireless transmission capability.

You'll be walking down a crowded street in a hurry trying to get your music playing when all of a sudden a box will pop up over your interface "User s8trBoi wants to send you the song "Skate or Die" by "The Snotty Adolescent Band." Do you want to accept?" You think wtf? Then suddenly it disappears and a new box pops up that says "Connection Lost, would you like to try again? [retry] [cancel] [stop] [close zuneing port]" After this keeps happening you click [close zuneing port], which turns off the wireless capability on your zune. Then you can't share songs anymore, and the pref to turn it back on will be buried under a complex interface. So the wireless capability will be used for all of a week for most people.

Then maybe spammers will realize that this is a whole new fertile ground for their sludge. So you'll be walking down the street and suddenly a box will pop up over your interface that says "User "*BUY CHEAP VIAGRA*" wants to send you the song "ONLY 5 DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!!!" by "WWW.WE-R-SPAM.COM" Do you want to accept?"

Zune sounds like a great new world. Thanks Microsoft.

It took me 5 minutes to read this completely I was laughing so hard. The sad part is that it is so true.

[ClimbingTheLog]

"If we're completely wrong and you completely screw up the entire music market for Mac owners, the sandbox is small enough that you really won't damage the overall music industry very much."

So, I take this to mean that having iTunes on PC is what's holding up the iTunes movie store from getting the major studios. This quote seems to be code for "the studios are terrified we're not going to get this right".

Which, of course, they're aren't if "right" means uncrackable for the next millennium, which the studios want because they're afraid of the boogieman (who is imaginary) instead of realizing there's profit to be had in them thar bits.

[ironjaw]

You found $10 on the way back home alone?

Sadly there are no dollars here in the UK. :p

[Lixivial]

now go drink your kool-aid everyone...:)

Is it Black Cherry? That stuff's bad news.

[scott523]

Stuck with Ctrl-Alt-Delete :rolleyes:A little off topic but would = Ctrl-Alt-Delete on a Mac?

[spicyapple]

A little off topic but would = Ctrl-Alt-Delete on a Mac?
Command+Option+ESC or holding down the Power button.

[virus1]

Or (and here's a radical idea) why not put a small speaker on the player itself?
there is one.

but anyways, why would you use it when you could have her on a 2 foot ear bud leash?

[scott523]

Command+Option+ESC or holding down the Power button.Thx for info, I'm about to switch and gotta know that in case crap happens. lol :rolleyes:

[mattniles007]

One thing I really hate about this Zune thing is the amount of free publicity Microsoft has gotten.

For months on end we've been bombarded with Zune-friendly "news" articles calling it an "iPod killer". Even before Microsoft had a name for it, before they had any sort of design for it, while it was still vaporware, the media kept hammering home, "iPod killer" while seeming to drool over the prospect.

There's STILL no actual product on the store shelves.

It's disgusting, really.

I totally agree its horrible what a pass the media gives them, its just like how the media treats the Republicans

[sushi]

Finally, Jobs was asked if he was worried about Microsoft's upcoming media player (Zune) and its "community" features:


In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.
Classic! :D

With the iPod, you only need one to share music via the earbuds (or dual jack and second set of earbuds).

With the Zune, the other person must have one too in order to take advantage of the wireless sharing feature.

I don't see it being all that popular.

[gugy]

The Zune will die in a very slow and painfull way.
I am sorry for Microsoft. They are just too late and too little in the game.

long live the iPod.:D

[mdntcallr]

steve is right, the basic thing is the ipod works well, and it is very simple to use. Itunes helps everything by being a first class program that is always getting frequent updates.

only thing is, apple needs to let record labels/artists come up with variable pricing.

so catalog albums will cost less, and labels can get money from singles.

[stephenli]

Is there any medical concern with sharing earbuds?

yes, so girls will use their own earbuds to jack into your iPod.

I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

e...in this case you have to pairing the girl's wireless headphone with your wireless iPod, and the girl may say "oops! its out of battery" :(

[kresh]

steve is right, the basic thing is the ipod works well, and it is very simple to use. Itunes helps everything by being a first class program that is always getting frequent updates.

only thing is, apple needs to let record labels/artists come up with variable pricing.

so catalog albums will cost less, and labels can get money from singles.

I'm hoping for an Indie section.

Really a seperate part of iTS called IndieTunes. All the Indie stuff would be kept seperate from the main catalogs. Bands can sign up, Apple can host the stuff. Apple sells the songs, they make the .10 or so (whatever they make on Label music) and the rest goes to the bands.

All the materials would be voted up or down by iTunes registered users. Stuff that's voted up stays in the catalog, stuff that's voted down to oblivion gets quietly removed from the IndieTunes catalogs. If it's a real, seperate, section then it will not get in the way of their traditional business and not get in the way of people who could care less about Indie bands.

They have the vast majority of the infrastructure in place, just not sure if they could make money. I imagine the bandwidth vs. profit might not support it.

Any thing to cut the legs off the RIAA!

[Aussie John]

all this beaming vs using the ear buds (yours or theirs) reminds me of the great expense NASA went to make a pen that works in space and Zero G. as compared the Russians who used a pencil

[chuckles:)]

Thx for info, I'm about to switch and gotta know that in case crap happens. lol :rolleyes:

i asked the same thing when i bought my forst mac @ an apple store about a year ago. the dude told me to ask him when it comes up.

it hasn't.

[kansaigaijin]

Thx for info, I'm about to switch and gotta know that in case crap happens. lol :rolleyes:


crap never happens!

[kansaigaijin]

I saw the Zune bus today in Oregon. A very well maintained but older model bus with a dark brown wrap with the Zune logo.

Says it all right there. Zune is a recycled product from Toshiba, advertised on refurbished old bus.



lame.

[iMeowbot]

all this beaming vs using the ear buds (yours or theirs) reminds me of the great expense NASA went to make a pen that works in space and Zero G. as compared the Russians who used a pencil
That would even be a better story if it was true. It ain't (http://history.nasa.gov/spacepen.html).

[chuckles:)]

Take a look at this comparison chart.

http://www.zunescene.com/comparison/

Why dosn't the ipod connect to the Xbox marketplace? :p

and whats a "unique online tag"?

also look @ the official site:
https://www.comingzune.com/
Strange thing making beeping noises. that 'cool'.

[AppliedVisual]

That is sooooo true. Without Jobs, apple would be in the *******.

Without the iPod and Jobs, Apple would be history...

[kansaigaijin]

Take a look at this comparison chart.

http://www.zunescene.com/comparison/

Why dosn't the ipod connect to the Xbox marketplace? :p

and whats a "unique online tag"?

also look @ the official site:
https://www.comingzune.com/
Strange thing making beeping noises. that 'cool'.


those sites are all run by MS.

the screen? same res as the iPod, so it will look crappy as the pixels will be stretched to fit the screen.

[Object-X]

They should do a commercial with the Mac and PC guy. The Mac guy can have an iPod the PC guy a Zune. Enter cute girl. She gets an earbud from the Mac guy as she smiles looking like they might start making out. PC guy gets that dude in a dress asking, "Did you get it? I don't get it!"

:D

[minnesotamacman]

Lost in all this is the fact that the iPod is 5 on the 23rd...

Anyone else here even curious if there is a new iPod going to be released on the 5th birthday? I have read through 3 pages of posts and not found anyone offering this thought.

So I will throw it in. :)

New iPod Video (true video widescreen) on the 23rd!

[108]

Who does this guy think he is?

I think I like him and the way he thinks!! Give him a couple billion dollars!!

Here, I'll give him $3,000. (...soon?)

(...Why didn't the interviewer ask "So, teh jobz, where is my MEROM?" The internet (as represented by me) is disappointed.)

[dwwd]

"Hi girl, catch this music im zunning to you..."

[MegaSignal]

Can you imagine what this wireless zuneing feature will be like in the real world? I bet they haven't come up with a way to make the wireless feature only try talking to the zune you want it to, so it'll try talking to any other zune within the proximity of the wireless transmission capability.

You'll be walking down a crowded street in a hurry trying to get your music playing when all of a sudden a box will pop up over your interface "User s8trBoi wants to send you the song "Skate or Die" by "The Snotty Adolescent Band." Do you want to accept?" You think wtf? Then suddenly it disappears and a new box pops up that says "Connection Lost, would you like to try again? [retry] [cancel] [stop] [close zuneing port]" After this keeps happening you click [close zuneing port], which turns off the wireless capability on your zune. Then you can't share songs anymore, and the pref to turn it back on will be buried under a complex interface. So the wireless capability will be used for all of a week for most people.

Then maybe spammers will realize that this is a whole new fertile ground for their sludge. So you'll be walking down the street and suddenly a box will pop up over your interface that says "User "*BUY CHEAP VIAGRA*" wants to send you the song "ONLY 5 DOLLARS PER BOTTLE!!!" by "WWW.WE-R-SPAM.COM" Do you want to accept?"

Zune sounds like a great new world. Thanks Microsoft.
Probably the best post I ever read. Informative, funny, truthful.

All the best to ya!

[babyj]

I can't see wireless file sharing ever taking off, not person to person at least. It would be good for syncing with iTunes and good for headphones.

I can also see public download points working; go to a concert and they give you a free download, walk past an advertisement and it sends you the music from the tv ad for example.

Still not convinced the 'true' video iPod is on the cards, especially as he says music will be the centre point of the iPod for a while to come. Maybe when they can get decent battery life, maybe when they can make it as thin and attractive as the 5G iPod. Not sure I'd want one though, the current form factor of the iPod is perfect for me - even for watching video.

I can just imagine Bill Gates getting pissed over that interview, asking his pr advisers "why can't I ever be that cool?". Sorry Bill, it ain't never gonna happen.

[chadgroove]

(flashback pirates of he silicone valley)

Steve: Are you a Virgin?
Zune User: ummm.. well I've been dating someone for 5 years.. here I have pictures of my her on my zune..
Steve: I think that answers the question....

[virus1]

"Hi girl, catch this music im zunning to you..."
please allow me to complete your thought.

enjoy it, ladies and gents..

[motulist]

please allow me to complete your thought.

enjoy it, ladies and gents..

Is that comic sans font? How appropriate.

[Aussie John]

That would even be a better story if it was true. It ain't (http://history.nasa.gov/spacepen.html).
Had a sneaking suspicion it may be an urban myth. Thanks for the clarification
Any way it does illustrate technology for technologies sake isn't always the best approach

[virus1]

Is that comic sans font? How appropriate.
chalkboard bold.. didnt' think of comic sans..

[toughboy]

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D

;) :D :D :D

[cherrypop]

Love SJ's comment about sharing earbuds being preferable to sharing music Zune-WiFi-style. He's good.

But you know Apple's got a WiFi iPod in the works, and then the statement on WiFi will be that it's "indispensable." Love that guy.

[balamw]

But you know Apple's got a WiFi iPod in the works, and then the statement on WiFi will be that it's "indispensable." Love that guy.
Well maybe the WiFi on the vPod will actually be useful for something, like buying tracks or syncing with your PC/Mac or even some light web browsing...

The Zune's wireless is so neutered that it's essentially useless...

B

[AppliedVisual]

But you know Apple's got a WiFi iPod in the works, and then the statement on WiFi will be that it's "indispensable." Love that guy.

...Same with the true video iPod as well. And we'll probably get one of those once they can squeeze it into a size of the 5G iPod for the same price and have the entire face of the thing be a 16:9 touch-screen with at least 864x480 resolution.

[ericdano]

Steve is smooth, and he gets the point.

There is nothing more to ruin the moment, whether it be with a pretty girl, or with someone you are having a friendly convesation with, than to start fumbling with MENUS. The spontanity is lost once 2 people need to remove their Zunes from their pockets, go through a few menus, and then send a song over wireless. THEN listen to it. ALONE.

Wireless will come on iPod when its good and ready. It isnt right now.

motulist: you are right on cue. You just described what will be the real Zune experience.

Actually, the whole thing kind of reminds me of the whole internet thing where we had that Push technology. What was that stupid application that Windows users ran?

http://www.dbmsmag.com/9703d02.html

Anyhow, Zune is like that. You have to push it to someone. The better idea would be to have people be able to "open up" their Zunes (or iPods), and people could look around on their Zune (or iPod) and see what people are listening to around them. And if they like it, then grab it and let them play it for X amount of times or days. More of a PULL technology.

Still, just sharing earbuds is more social, but if you had broadcasting on an iPod or Zune, that would make more sense, at least to me....

[zephead]

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D
LOL, that's priceless. :D

[redAPPLE]

where would we be without him?

i'd be nowhere. i would have to restart and i would be where i started from. :D

[redAPPLE]

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D

try 5 tequilas. that should do the trick ;)

[n00bst3r]

Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.

[mufflon]

Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.


To be honest I would rather have long battery hours than a bigger screen - which is doomed to drink more of the juice - or wireless capabilities.
I wouldn't like a deeper ipod just because the screen is bigger (and it will have to given that one would like the same battery hours) - my 3g ipod was thich, I don't want a 6th gen copycat!

I suppose the bigger screenw ill come sooner or later - I wouldn't mind one either - I just prefer to be actually able to watch a movie without recharging!

[SeaFox]

Haha, that's the best part. And it's so true! Walk your ass over to that girl and sit next to her and share your music with her. Screw this "beaming it over" nonsense.

Microsoft Zune: For when there's a restraining order.

[lmalave]

Actually, the whole thing kind of reminds me of the whole internet thing where we had that Push technology. What was that stupid application that Windows users ran?

http://www.dbmsmag.com/9703d02.html

Anyhow, Zune is like that. You have to push it to someone. The better idea would be to have people be able to "open up" their Zunes (or iPods), and people could look around on their Zune (or iPod) and see what people are listening to around them. And if they like it, then grab it and let them play it for X amount of times or days. More of a PULL technology.

Still, just sharing earbuds is more social, but if you had broadcasting on an iPod or Zune, that would make more sense, at least to me....

In my opinion, the iPod/iPhone will almost certainly have Wi-Fi sometime soon, and the song sharing feature will work exactly as you're describing. Basically, it will be just like shared playlists in iTunes. You'll be able to optionally share the music on your iPod. Using Apple's Bonjour/Rendezvous technology, your iPod will also detect any nearby shared playlists from other wireless iPods just like iTunes can detect shared iTunes playlists available on the network.

Another use for Wi-Fi on the iPod would be to listen to internet radio stations - that would be pretty nifty.

Additionally, there could be some kind of interface to the iTunes store. It would have to be very simplified, but I would expect Apple is working on such a simplified interface anyway for the internet-enabled version of mobile iTunes.

[Porco]

Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.

The Zune is no more widescreen than the iPod is. And the resolution is exactly the same (320x240), it's just physically bigger on the Zune, and has been rotated 90 degrees compared to an iPod's screen.

[iMikeT]

I think that a wireless music sharing feature, via a similar interface to iTunes, will definitely be in the iPod's future. And at which point, the iPod may also have the capability to make music purchases.

But the way Microsoft has its 3 days or 3 plays is just horrible. Microsoft is just getting on its knees and giving lip-service to the record companies rather than it being the other way around via Apple's way.

Back to the article... This just affirms to me that Jobs and Apple have a couple things between their legs that the competition does not.

[iMikeT]

Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.




Oh yes, a "click wheel" that does not actually have click wheel functions is such a nice interface...:rolleyes:

[savar]

Steve is a smart guy. I wish our president could answer tough questions as gracefully as Steve does.

[bazzalisk]

I dont think ANYONE would want a stranger theyve known for 1 minute coming up to them and putting crap into their ear.

You don't go to the right clubs, mate.

There was this girl once in a punk club just off oxford street ... ;)

[Kirkmedia]

Yes, it would be rare for two people who hardly know each other to go start sticking icky things into icky parts of each other's bodies :rolleyes: :D

My first impulse would be to clean the girls ear with my tongue after she
shares my headphones.

(Sorry I went there, couldn't help myself)

[MacSamurai]

Steve is a smart guy. I wish our president could answer tough questions as gracefully as Steve does.


Steve for president lol.I wish our president could answer questions period...

[kirk26]

Nice quote on Engadget's website: "iWhore, therefore iPod."

I voted Negative because we all know Steve is furious that Microsoft is releasing a wireless MP3 player before Apple. The iP$d needs some serious revamping.

[Moe]

Microsoft Zune
http://home.att.net/~roadkingmoe/MS-Zune.jpg

[gauchogolfer]

Nice quote on Engadget's website: "iWhore, therefore iPod."

I voted Negative because we all know Steve is furious that Microsoft is releasing a wireless MP3 player before Apple. The iP$d needs some serious revamping.


What exactly is 'wireless' about this MP3 player? Sharing songs three times doesn't count in my book. There's no wireless syncing, nor wireless connection to my stereo. What's the big deal again?

[rxse7en]

Ear Buddies®

[gloss]

You found $10 on the way back home alone?

I love you, Chundles.

[Mainyehc]

those sites are all run by MS.

the screen? same res as the iPod, so it will look crappy as the pixels will be stretched to fit the screen.

Yep, that "comparison" seems very suspicious indeed... Just look at how they compare, in size, a 30GB Zune with a 60/80GB iPod! The 30GB iPod is that much thinner compared to its bigger sibling, let alone to the über-fat Zune...

And the screen resolution is cr*ap, for a screen with that size... I'm also figuring that since the display is probably a conventional horizontal display rotated in portrait mode, when you use the player, the colours each eye sees will be different, due to the vertical viewing angle, which is generally much smaller than the horizontal; and on the Zune, these will be reversed and will screw our stereoscopic vision, thus causing a lot of eyestrain... Just use a Sansa (which has the same display orientation) for more than five minutes and you'll know what I'm talking about :eek:

[vi2867]

Yeah, iPods are a fad. Who knows how long this fad will last.

I can tell you one thing, is as long as Apple continues to make them better, and continue to listen to their customers.

It will stop being a fad, and it will be a way of life...

[minnesotamacman]

Want to really make it good, be able to do wireless between the iPod and the Zune. That will get Bill Gate's undies in a twist!

[apb3]

I said the same thing, basically, way back in this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=225187&page=3&highlight=apb3


"As far as sharing in your range. Again a waste of battery to support this. I have what I wnat ton hear for the most part. I don't much care to drain my battery searching other users' libs (that will come and go as they wander around and in and out of range - oh great, I found a cool Streets video I don't have!! Oh wait he just left range!!!), it's short-lived enough already."

Steve should hire me when I get back.:D

[thegreatunknown]

Nice quote on Engadget's website: "iWhore, therefore iPod."

I voted Negative because we all know Steve is furious that Microsoft is releasing a wireless MP3 player before Apple. The iP$d needs some serious revamping.


the zune isn't out yet...

[milo]

Before getting slapped... I guess if youre a billionaire you can shove earbuds into a strangers ear, but here in Real World USA the results would not be pretty. Do that with your girlfriend, I dont think ANYONE would want a stranger theyve known for 1 minute coming up to them and putting crap into their ear.

And you think most people would want strangers trying to send them songs and pictures?

Along the same lines, anyone else remember the episode of The Office where Jim used "earbud sharing" with Pam? Gotta love tasteful product placement.

For months on end we've been bombarded with Zune-friendly "news" articles calling it an "iPod killer". Even before Microsoft had a name for it, before they had any sort of design for it, while it was still vaporware, the media kept hammering home, "iPod killer" while seeming to drool over the prospect.

I guess you've been reading different articles than I have. Since they've announced details and pictures I've mostly been seeing articles along the lines of "What a Turd".

[milo]

all this beaming vs using the ear buds (yours or theirs) reminds me of the great expense NASA went to make a pen that works in space and Zero G. as compared the Russians who used a pencil

Urban legend. The space pen was developed by a third party, and pencils were used in early nasa missions. Pencils aren't good for outer space since they can burn and shavings and lead bits can float around, which is hazardous.

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

[apb3]

Urban legend. The space pen was developed by a third party, and pencils were used in early nasa missions. Pencils aren't good for outer space since they can burn and shavings and lead bits can float around, which is hazardous.

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp


and everyone always teases me about my affinity for thick, stubby crayons for everyday use...

[brepublican]

the zune isn't out yet...
And just like Vista, who the hell knows when thats gonna be?

Zuning (or whatever the hell it is) is a whole load of nonsense. Only about 97.1% of all hot chicks have no friggin clue how to do anything on their iPods other than play music (calenders, contacts, equaliser). You expect that blonde sitting across from you at the airport to know Zuning? Well she's the one who routinely clicks on "U R hte 1th vistir!! U won a PINK Ipod Nano!!! CLICK HERE" links...

HA! Good luck :rolleyes:

[milo]

And just like Vista, who the hell knows when thats gonna be?

Everyone who read the MS press release knows when.

November 14th.

[vansouza]

My favorite part:

Microsoft has announced its new iPod competitor, Zune. It says that this device is all about building communities. Are you worried?

In a word, no. I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable.

Fishes,
narco.

Zuned is what happens to your iTunes library when it suddenly vanishes.. you got zuned...

[Eraserhead]

I think one of the greatest flaws in the wireless is that the only use I can see is between friends, I have a wireless MP3 Player already (called a macbook, it's a litttle smaller than the zune ;) ) and in a CS seminar someone bluetoothed me a song, now as a Maths student I don't know the Comp Sci people so I'd never spoken to before so I rejected it, I can't believe I'd do any different if I had a Zune, unless I knew them, in which case I might as well go round with my iPod to their house ;).

[Chris Bangle]

I dont want to put anyones hopes up or down but tomarrow is tuesday. And invitations for a media event go out a week before an event which in this case would be next tuesday. So if the fullscreen things gonna happen in time for ipod's birthday invitions will come out tomarrow.... If there are no invites there wont be a fullscreen ipod till january, if there are invites then ipod will be here on tuesday... That is my prediction...

[nemaslov]

Way back when, I asked my mother to buy me the first Beatles album, Meet the Beatles. I remember being home, sick in bed, home from school and she came home with the bag. I was so excited. I ripped it open (ripped meant something very different in 1964) and out I pulled : The Buggs: The Beetle Beat (note spelling)........my friends laughed at me... my mother is now dead.

So it is Christmas 2006. Some kid wants an iPod and his parents gives him a ZUNE. And it's a brown one.:D

Hey just saw one on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4832274825&category=306

[spicyapple]

Nemaslov, that's a funny story. :)

[balamw]

my friends laughed at me... my mother is now dead.
You killed your mother because your friends laughed at you :eek: :confused: :p

B

[nemaslov]

You killed your mother because your friends laughed at you :eek: :confused: :p

B

NO, She died of natural causes BUT (TRUE STORY) on August 29th, 1966 a friend showed up at my house at 6PM with two tickets to see the Beatles at Candlestick Park in San Francisco. My mother said I could not go becuase I had a drum lesson at 7PM and unless it was cancelled a day in advance, we'd have to pay. So I missed what became the last official concert the Beatles ever played.

I no longer play the drums :confused: AND my mother is dead. :(

see not everyone here is 23...

[nemaslov]

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer says his company will not lose money on the sale of its Zune digital media players this holiday shopping season, but admits it won't make much money either.

Ballmer said his company's upcoming Zune player fits into the hardware model because the value, if its successful, is all in the software. "It's in community [the ability to share music and pictures with other Zune users]," he said. "I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation. That's a software experience."


...now think of this when you share your zune with the girl sitting next to you...:p

[Chris Bangle]

So is there a possibility of a touchscreen ipod in the next two weeks or not.

[AppliedVisual]

Ballmer said his company's upcoming Zune player fits into the hardware model because the value, if its successful, is all in the software. "It's in community [the ability to share music and pictures with other Zune users]," he said. "I want to squirt you a picture of my kids. You want to squirt me back a video of your vacation. That's a software experience."

"....Oh, she's hot. I wonder if she squirts?" :D


OK, mods can delete that one.

[nemaslov]

"....Oh, she's hot. I wonder if she squirts?" :D


OK, mods can delete that one.

Yes they can BUT that is what he actually said. Unusual word choice?

[brepublican]

Everyone who read the MS press release knows when.

November 14th.
Yeah, but who the hell knows when thats gonna be? :D

[vansouza]

Personally the Zune is looking fairly attrective right now. Ever since the 5th Gen iPod came out everyone has complained that it needed to be widescreen and have a bigger screen. I don't care for the WiFi sharing really but you have to admit the interface looks pretty nice.
I don't have to admit any such thing..

[aaronious]

Jobs' brilliance shines through in this interview. Keep the hits coming Steve!

He's so good, he makes their "killer" feature, wireless sharing, sound dork-tastic!

All the while making listenign together sexy as hell.

You go girl!

[lazyrighteye]

Yes they can BUT that is what he actually said. Unusual word choice?

Yes. Unusual and uncool.
Ballmer's blatant over-use of the word "squirt," is nothing more than MS' marketing "genius" at work... going with the say-a-weird-word-so-much-that-it-will-catch-on-and-work-it's-way-into-our-vernacular, strategy. Feels so contrived. I can almost see the goof balls at MS sitting in some Redmond boardroom, watching a PowerPoint presentation on why "squirt" will help take down the iPod and finally make MS seem cool, pie charts and all.

And that's the thing about cool - you can't fabricate it (or, it most certainly can't feel fabricated). It has to feel natural, not contrived. Basically, either something is cool or it is not. In this case, Zune and MS are not cool.

Sure, there is more to market share than cool, to which MS can well attest.
That said, market share is overrated - if not, uncool.

[nemaslov]

PLEASE STOP ALL THIS SQUIRTING ©2006 Microsoft Corp.

[vitaboy]

We heard something really similar to that when every other company released video-playing mp3 players before Apple did, and Jobs said he didn't see anybody wanting to have portable video. Well, Apple bit its tongue and released it, calling it "innovation".

You know what, Steve never said Apple would NEVER do a video iPod. What he said was that video just didn't make sense at the time. For one thing, he said that there was practically zero demand from iPod users for video. Then he qualified his statement by saying that the situation might be different in the future, but the media being what it is, his comment was reduced to the overly simplistic (but easy to report), "APPLE WILL NEVER MAKE A VIDEO IPOD."

And for your information, the release of the video iPod was innovative because Apple launched it in conjunction with $1.99 music videos and TV shows on the iTunes Store. Less than a year later, there are like 250 TV shows you can buy on iTunes, from the latest hits like Grey's Anatomy to old classics like Knight Rider.

I always get a little peeved that people are so easily dismissive of the iTunes piece of the iPod pie. iPod wouldn't be where it is today without iTunes and the iTunes Store. If it took Apple 18 months to convince the music companies to sell their music for $0.99 on iTunes, then don't you think Apple made the right decision by waiting to launch the video iPod simultaneously with iTunes video offerings? iPod is nothing without content and Steve clearly believes that iPod should never lack for legal music/video content, ever.

I, for one, know from an Apple iPod engineer that Apple had a working video iPod in the labs more than 2 years ago, but it's quite clear that Steve had the patience and foresight to wait until the time was right for video, instead of launching a product into a vacuum. History is full of products that - while technical marvels - utterly failed because they were before their time. Newton was one. The Tucker automobile was another.

I'm a big iPod fan (i've purchased 3) but wireless capabilities is the way of the future. I don't see ourselves in 10 years still being limited by wired headphones and such. Maybe it'll be easier than the Zune (haven't seen the demo) but the idea of beaming a song for somebody else to download/hear is pretty cool to me.

Glad you are such a big fan of the iPod. :) I own 4 iPods myself. :-P

Your prediction about wireless isn't necessarily wrong, but what Steve understands is 1) timing is important and 2) technology in context is even more important. Microsoft never understood this - they're all about feature bullet points and will enthusiastically push out new tech that ends up being poorly implemented and doesn't even end up solving the problems that consumers face in using technology.

Zune is wireless for the sake of wireless. It's wireless crap. Having wireless will not make Zune a better device - in fact, I think most people will soon come to the conclusion that it's crap because there will be no other Zune users within 100 miles to "squirt" each other with.

What people seem to forget is that Apple isn't stupid. It's like all the bruhala that erupted last year when geeks of every stripe claimed iPod would finally be killed because the music cell phone would be the killer product. What's funny is how these people assume Apple suddenly sent all its engineers home and decided, "Well, we've sold 50 million iPods. Time to call it day. No new iPods, ever."

As is now all but certain, Apple has been working on an iPod phone for a while. So much for music phones killing the iPod - maybe this year's iPod, but Apple is not a company to stand still.

Same thing with wireless. What people seem to forget is that Apple already has shown the way in terms of wireless. I'm talking about the broadcasting features already built in to iTunes via Bonjour networking. If you go to any college dorm or library, you'll notice a few to a dozen iTunes music libraries that will show up in your iTunes. People are already streaming their music for free, direct from iTunes, over 802.11. iTunes Sharing has already been doing the "music community" thing for a long time now.

So it seems quite obvious to me that a wireless iPod will be able to pick up these local iTunes streams like a Mac or PC running iTunes can already do.

If Apple wanted to push the technology a bit, then iPods would be able to stream music iPod-to-Mac(s), iPod-to-PC(s), and iPod-to-iPod(s). None of these limited point-to-point crap like Zune. No slow, time-bomb file transfers. Instead, we'll see live streaming from one iPod to many iPods, PCs, or Macs. No music file will actually be transferred, just as in iTunes sharing, which allows Apple to avoid the messiness of wrapping files in DRM like with Zune. A wireless iPod could tune in simultaneously with many different streams at the same time, and it'd be instantaneous because no transfers actually occur.

Sure, you won't be able to take the streams with you, but wireless iPod with iTunes Sharing would be infinitely more usable and fun than some geeky, slow, unworkable Zune model.

So I say just wait. I mean, can you imagine how badly Zune will blow up after Microsoft has launched the product (when they've committed to expensive manufacturing and the R&D is finished) and Apple launches a wireless iPod that actually works like a wireless device is supposed to?

Remember - just think "iPod with iTunes Sharing" and compare that to Zune, and realize with a smile that Microsoft is rushing forward into one of the biggest trainwrecks in music history. Apple's just waiting for them to build up momentum so the spectacle will be spectacular when the tracks get cut out from under them! ;)

[QuarterSwede]

Jobs' brilliance shines through in this interview. Keep the hits coming Steve!

He's so good, he makes their "killer" feature, wireless sharing, sound dork-tastic!

All the while making listenign together sexy as hell.

You go girl!
Yeah, after I read it, I was like "that man is a marketing genius!".

[milo]

You know what, Steve never said Apple would NEVER do a video iPod. What he said was that video just didn't make sense at the time. For one thing, he said that there was practically zero demand from iPod users for video. Then he qualified his statement by saying that the situation might be different in the future, but the media being what it is, his comment was reduced to the overly simplistic (but easy to report), "APPLE WILL NEVER MAKE A VIDEO IPOD."

He didn't really say that either.

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=11002_0_1_0_C

"You're always fighting things that are opposed to each other. As an example, take the PlayStation 3. It's a great game machine, but it's not such a great music player. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest reason is that it doesn't fit in your pocket, does it? Games need nice big screens. Music players need to fit in your pocket. So you have to pick one and optimize for it, and the second thing you do will certainly be suboptimal. Maybe you can do it, but it will be suboptimal.

So you can do video on these devices if you want to, but the things that are suboptimal about it are the screen size and the battery life—things like that. The fundamental problem here is...Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience as with a great pair of speakers. Well, there's no such thing as headphones for video. There's not something I can carry with me—something I can put on—that will give me the same experience that I get when I'm watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. And until somebody invents that, you're going to have these opposing constraints."

Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.

[thegreatunknown]

vitaboy:

I didn't want to write such a long response but you took the words right out of me. THANKS!

I for one think the capability you speak of is on the edge of an announcement and will be the zune spotlight stealer... probably built into this widescreen thing people believe is coming.

[QuarterSwede]

Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.
The thing is, it still is suboptimal on the current generation. I believe Apple just added it as just another feature while music is the main priority of the player.

And vitaboy, I couldn't agree more, well written, excellent post.

[mooncaine]

Yuck, don't share an earbud. They get a little earwax on 'em, and guess why the earwax is there? To catch bugs, germs, mites, and dust before it gets to your ears. I wouldn't want to share your earbud -- nothing personal -- and you sure ain't welcome to use mine.

You want to share? Bring along some tiny headphones that don't stick into your ear -- remember those? Cheap as chips, so if you sit on 'em, no big loss. Let 'em sit at the bottom of your backpack til you need 'em.

Or let her plug in to your iPod, but then you won't be able to hear at the same time.

About Ballmer's choice of words: he's just trying to sound cool, and not sound like he spends all day in a suit, in an office with Windows machines, muted green cubicle walls, and a stinky fridge in the coffee room. "Squirt" is unintentional poetry -- Mac users share, but Windows users squirt? :D Steve, please, no more squirting on my network.

[vitaboy]

The thing is, it still is suboptimal on the current generation. I believe Apple just added it as just another feature while music is the main priority of the player.

And vitaboy, I couldn't agree more, well written, excellent post.

First of all, thanks to milo for finding a transcript of that forum where Steve Jobs related his thoughts about a video iPod. My own recollection, it appears, was a bit cloudy. :p

That being said, what QuarterSwede said. Jobs never said, "Never" to the video iPod. He talked instead about limitations, how video on a portable device would never replicate watching video on a 50 inch screen. Video on an iPod would be "suboptimal" but again, he never said it would be something Apple would never do.

Instead, he was really trying to lower people's expectations about video on the iPod. We know now that Apple already had a video iPod in the labs, with the same 4:3 screen ratio and 320x240 resolution. People back then (as today) were talking about widescreen iPods that somehow would be like portable DVD players, with monstrous screens and such. So it seems that Steve knew that a video iPod would still be a while off in terms of a commercial launch, but needed to lower people's expectations. His talk was simply about the pros-and-cons of doing video on an iPod, not a statement that a video ipod was totally out of the possibility.

Notice again his comments about wireless. Steve again couches his comments with talk of pros-and-cons. He is realistic about what wireless will do, but it's also clear he isn't ready to release a wireless iPod just for the sake of wireless. Problems like battery life have to be solved first, i.e. all the pieces have to first fall in place before Apple launches the product.

It just reiterates the point I made before - when a wireless iPod sees the light of day, my guess is that there will be a flood of articles with the phrase "wireless done right."

[jettredmont]

He didn't really say that either.

http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=11002_0_1_0_C

"You're always fighting things that are opposed to each other. As an example, take the PlayStation 3. It's a great game machine, but it's not such a great music player. There are many reasons for that, but the biggest reason is that it doesn't fit in your pocket, does it? Games need nice big screens. Music players need to fit in your pocket. So you have to pick one and optimize for it, and the second thing you do will certainly be suboptimal. Maybe you can do it, but it will be suboptimal.

So you can do video on these devices if you want to, but the things that are suboptimal about it are the screen size and the battery life—things like that. The fundamental problem here is...Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience as with a great pair of speakers. Well, there's no such thing as headphones for video. There's not something I can carry with me—something I can put on—that will give me the same experience that I get when I'm watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. And until somebody invents that, you're going to have these opposing constraints."

Makes it sound like no video ipod, and yet he released one just a couple months later, even though the big constraints he listed hadn't been eliminated.

Well, battery life jumped dramatically in the 5th gen iPods (and again in 5.5G). And when Steve debuted the video store the iPod was one device to display that video on, not the only one. Contrast paying $9.99 for a video which will play quite well on your iPod as well as on your 23" or 30" Mac screen, to paying a friggin' premium to buy the same movie on UMD (likewise without the extra features) that can only be watched on a little 3" screen in your hand, period.

If the industry hadn't been touting the ability to buy movies just for your portable device, this would be a classic straw man argument: knock down the stupidest possible use for a device in order to tarnish the whole device. But, it wasn't straw-man, because that's exactly what Sony was trying to sell, and what the cell phone makers were trying to sell! Steve's blessed with straw man competitors!

Likewise, you see here Jobs knocking down what you'd think, had you been on a desert island the past three months, to be an obvious straw-man. Obviously trying to pick up chicks by flashing them your music library from across the room is only a half step removed from flashing anonymous strangers on the street. It's just a plain stupid idea, two steps beyond the border into creepytown, and by far not the best use of a wireless connection between two portable devices. And, worse, we know from experience that it'll be clunky as well as creepy because Microsoft's idea of an "easy" connection process typically involves three "simple" 200-word dialogs, a click-through EULA promising you'll only listen to the shared song alone and get the permission of Major League Baseball prior to letting anyone else listen in, and a "minor" virus infection. But, this disaster is what Microsoft has been touting!

IMHO, Steve Jobs is a marketing genius because he's able to see the obvious flaws in other companies' marketing pitches, and likewise able to hide the obvious flaws in his own. All of which is to say that, yes, when Apple adds wireless capabilities to their iPod I have little doubt it will have me drooling. They have a track record of that, which is backed by a rather solid track record of actually delivering on the drool-worthy product. I doubt, however, that Steve will be going around telling lonely geeks that iPod wireless music sharing will get them a date with the hot chick at the club.

[blybug]

Yeah, I was with him up until this line:
I think that music faded in importance for a while, and the iPod has helped to bring music back into people's lives in a really meaningful way. Music is so deep within all of us, but it's easy to go for a day or a week or a month or a year without really listening to music. And the iPod has changed that for tens of millions of people, and that makes me really happy, because I think music is good for the soul.

Umm, yeah, the iPod brought music back into the limelight. Thanks Steve Jobs, in the 90s I was worried music would go away forever, even though it's existed since the dawn of man. :rolleyes:

Actually I understand Jobs' point. I think he was referring to people like me, Gen X-ers (with disposable income) currently in their 30s-40s who accumulated hundreds of CDs throughout college and early careerhood of the 80s and early 90s. Then life got busy with wife, kids, work, mortgage, etc, and throughout the late 90s I rarely ever listened to or purchased music because I could never pick which CD I felt like listening to, and even if I could there just wasn't time to veg around listening to a CD like I used to.

MP3s changed all that as I started ripping my CDs into my computer, and gradually rediscovered all my music in the background while I was doing other things...I just kept thinking "I wish someone would make a portable little thingy I could so I could take these songs wherever I want." I kept watching and bought the first such device I found in 1999, a $499 Creative Nomad Jukebox 6GB (later upgraded to 20GB before the iPod was ever born). I understood the power of 1000 songs in your pocket, and even bought primitive accessories for the Nomad so I could play it on boombox speakers outside, or take it in the car.

Being a lifelong Apple user, I knew I wanted an iPod when it was released but had to wait until it reached 30GB to eclipse my Nomad. I now have 12,000 songs in my iTunes spread over 4 iPods in the family, and the music is always everywhere...in the car, on the computer, in the living room, out by the pool, in the kitchen, while exercising...and I've bought more music in the last 3 years than at any other time in my life. Now I can hear my favorite Tony Orlando song from when I was 5 juxtaposed with a couple Journey tunes from high school, immediately followed by the new Beck CD, all while I make dinner or cut the lawn.

The iPod has helped to bring music back into my life in a really meaningful way.

[nemaslov]

. Now I can hear my favorite Tony Orlando song from when I was 5 juxtaposed with a couple Journey tunes from high school, immediately followed by the new Beck CD, all while I make dinner or cut the lawn.

The iPod has helped to bring music back into my life in a really meaningful way.

Tony Orlando!!????:eek:

[blybug]

Tony Orlando!!????:eek:

come on, I said I was 5 :rolleyes:

"Say Has Anybody Seen My Sweet Gypsy Rose"

[nemaslov]

come on, I said I was 5 :rolleyes:

[/SIZE]

Yeah and Look what that Tie that Yellow Ribbon started.....:D

[balamw]

The iPod has helped to bring music back into my life in a really meaningful way.
Amen. QFT.

The iPod not only got me to start listening to all my old music again, but actually got me to start buying music again (both new and old). I used to buy 2-3 CDs/month and now I'm almost back to that peak level...

B

[OdduWon]

Way back when, I asked my mother to buy me the first Beatles album, Meet the Beatles. I remember being home, sick in bed, home from school and she came home with the bag. I was so excited. I ripped it open (ripped meant something very different in 1964) and out I pulled : The Buggs: The Beetle Beat (note spelling)........my friends laughed at me
that sux :( my friend found out her brother liked the beatles so she thought she would buy some for him. she went on itunes about 3 mo ago and bought an album. brother see's it and says thats not the beatles....heart break :(

[Uragon]

"Squirt," I guess is not an unfamiliar word to a man whose shirt is...... I don't want to see that video again....:D

[lxpk]

The girl was a hot techie gamer cyberpunk chick and I kissed her for the first time with my iPod playing Ghost In The Shell: Making of a Cyborg in both our ears. Steve knows what he's talking about here.

[newbreed]

The real problem here is that no self respecting trendy woman that is worth beaming to or plugging into, will be carrying a Toshiba Zune...

Only Steve could not say that in the interview. :p

[Nym]

I have to say I mainly agree with Jobs on this one.
Microsoft is encouraging "nerdiness" while Apple is telling you to live your life and interact with one another.
I guess his point is that the world has become a colder place, with serious lack of human contact promoted by the internet and the digital content that surrounds us. I'm all in favor to true human interaction, switching earbuds and etc, do we really need to send something to someone that is 5 feet away? Just get up and go there... And c'mon, whoever is saying that they're disgusted of putting on someone else's earbud is just being paranoid and picky, like the "shark attack" and "killer bee's" danger, it's just in your head, you ain't getting AIDS from an earbud...

IMO people need to get out more, talk to each other and stop doing everything wirelessly and digitally. :rolleyes:

JOBS RULLLLLZZZZ! (I lost it now...)

[0010101]

Yes, that is a very nerdy/geeky thing to do. "Zune"-ing music wirelessly is only something geeks can come up with, whereas Steve's suggestion of sharing earbuds is so much cooler and, dare I say it, sexually suggestive! ;)

Yes.. especially when the person you want to share the tune with isn't a girl.. but a fat, sweaty, hairy guy who's just getting over an ear infection.

Yea. I'd let that dude ram one of my earbuds in his head and sit all close in the cafeteria while we listen to music.

Plenty of people i'd let listen to music I had.. not alot of people i'd share my earbuds with, or wanna sit all close with.

Recently, a guy I had just met asked to use my cell phone.. so I let him.

He must have talked on the phone for less than a minute, but when he handed it back, the damn thing was DRIPPING with sweat.

Yuck.

A real nice guy, very friendly, and a pleasure to sit and talk with.. and would probably give you the shirt off his back if you needed it.. but if the way he handed my cell phone back is any indication, you'd have to wring the shirt out first.

Did I mention YUCK?

Yall can cuddle up close to him and share earbuds if you want.

[jackc]

No question, Jobs gave a good answer there. But let's face it, if it was Apple that was talking about wireless and Microsoft said you should just share earbuds, you know what the reaction would be.

[0010101]

It's an example of the Rev. Jobs Reality Distortion Field in action.

When I first read that quote, I thought, "Hey! Excellent answer!"

Then I remembered letting sweaty hairy man use my cell phone.

[OdduWon]

mac is about sharing your creativity with the ones you love. In this era of myspace and mmorpg's do we need a nother form of social interaction with no physical interaction. I still think that istations are a good idea. I would like to be in line at the store and see a girl listening to ipod, and i see her ilisten light on, so I check out her playlist, though this is a lot like myspace, at least you have the ability to walk over and say "hey :) ,i love your station. I see from your event list that the band (...) is playing this fri. would you like to go with me :cool: " Yes stalkers are inevitable, but this could be pretty cool.