Apple Acquires Silicon Color

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As reported by MacNN (http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/10/16/apple.buys.silicon.color/), Silicon Color announced (http://www.siliconcolor.com/) that Apple has acquired the company:

Announcement: We are pleased to announce that all Silicon Color technology and intellectual property, including FinalTouch color correction software, was recently sold to Apple. Maintenance agreements held by current Silicon Color customers will be honored by Apple until they expire.

Silicon Color FinalTouch 2K (http://www.siliconcolor.com/ft2k.html), FinalTouch HD (http://www.siliconcolor.com/fthd.html), and FinalTouch SD (http://www.siliconcolor.com/ftsd.html) for digital video color finishing.

The products are available for Mac only.

[xlosltove777]

I guess this might see it's way into FCP, anyone have any expierence with any of the apps mentioned?

[Bonte]

Sites are down, can't even see what the products are

edit: sorry, verry slow.

[mdntcallr]

Apple moves to make Final Cut even better.

Now if only apple could make take the program to a higher end level.

to take on Avid. Most people i know use Final Cut for Mid and Lower end stuff.

Ie big movie editors dont use it much.

[iMikeT]

This could mean that Apple is helping to create a better standard for viewing correct color on computers.:D

[snarton]

This is a pretty high end color correction tool. It's more likely to end up in the next version of Shake than in FCP.

[Mr B]

Apple moves to make Final Cut even better.

Now if only apple could make take the program to a higher end level.

to take on Avid. Most people i know use Final Cut for Mid and Lower end stuff.

Ie big movie editors dont use it much.

It is the new kid, and I hope for continued improvements, but some big names are using it. Walter Murch uses it now doesn't he?

[spicyapple]

FinalTouch will most likely get rolled into FCS 6.0 in time for NAB next year, since FT uses GPU hardware to do real-time colour correction. Besides, Final Cut Pro doesn't even have a decent curves colour correction tool and their 3-Way Colour Corrector is somewhat of a joke.

[AdeFowler]

Just watched the excellent 'Sin City'. It has to be one of the most impressive films I've seen and it was edited using Final Cut Pro.

[iris_failsafe]

This is going to become the core of Shake's replacement colour technology.

I'm sure it will also be part of that rumoured realtime 2k system that has even been seen run with RED camera footage...

[twoodcc]

well Apple's looking to make their video software even better. go apple!

[aafuss1]

Maybe FCS will see support for 10-bit, log-encoded Cineon and DPX files. The forum could be migrated over to Apple Discussions.
Although you mighn't be able to purchase Final Touch for the time being-unless they are listed on the Apple store.

[tk421]

It is the new kid, and I hope for continued improvements, but some big names are using it. Walter Murch uses it now doesn't he?

Yes, Walter Murch is the biggest name. I'm reading Behind the Seen right now. It's very interesting. But it's true that most feature films do still use Avid.

[spicyapple]

This is going to become the core of Shake's replacement colour technology.
Haven't tried Shake's colour grading and replacement tools, but had a lot of fun with SmoothCam. I can see why at one point Shake cost $10,000 per seat. Since Shake is EOL'ed by Apple, we might hopefully see FT technology in Apple's Phenomenon or Motion. :)

[ideaspring]

The acquisition of Silicon Color is awesome news. I think Apple is going to after the Avid Symphony and make its way into the high end market.

While several films may be cut on FCP, they are not finished there. This is Apple's first real chance to make that happen. The sad thing is the hardware is there, now we just need to get the right software.

[bretm]

Apple moves to make Final Cut even better.

Now if only apple could make take the program to a higher end level.

to take on Avid. Most people i know use Final Cut for Mid and Lower end stuff.

Ie big movie editors dont use it much.

You are so ridiculously incorrect. Do your research.

[mcorange]

I have a little experience from the products.

FinalTouch are very High End products and can't even run on standard High-End Apple workstations except with major performance tweaks such as SATA Raid clustering and a minimum requirement of 4 GB RAM for many features.

So...

...well...

...good news, for film professionals.

[bretm]

The acquisition of Silicon Color is awesome news. I think Apple is going to after the Avid Symphony and make its way into the high end market.

While several films may be cut on FCP, they are not finished there. This is Apple's first real chance to make that happen. The sad thing is the hardware is there, now we just need to get the right software.

Beyond the shortcomings of the Color Corrector and some media management issues, FCP is actually more in line with the DS products. Symphony is just a composer with a good color corrector. FCPs feature set is much more in line with DS. Kind of a mix of old AE and old DS technology with a little composer. Just look at the switch TO FCP rate vs. the switch to AVID rate. Well, there essentially aren't many people at all switching to Avid.

[scu]

Apple is just amazing. They keep buying up great companies and improving their software much too quickly

First they switch to Intel.

Then they let us run Windows.

Now they will give us Video iPod.

Later we will get a killer iPhone with a keyboard.

When Leopard comes out with all the bells and whistles it will blow everyone away

How can one keep up?

I feel my G5 Tower with Final Cut is about to become a dinosaur and I just bought it last year.

[SeaFox]

I'm sure it will also be part of that rumoured realtime 2k system that has even been seen run with RED camera footage...

What's a "RED" camera? (as I assume it has nothing to do with Bono) :)

[clintob]

Just watched the excellent 'Sin City'. It has to be one of the most impressive films I've seen and it was edited using Final Cut Pro.

Calling Sin City an excellent and impressive film is a bit of a stretch. Visually it was pretty interesting, but as a film... kinda like feces on celluloid.

[meli]

I'm not sure if the number of feature films cut using Final Cut is indictative of it's power. Feature films are not very demanding of an editing program (excluding storing many hours of footage). Avid is used because of it's legacy, and because Lightworks fell out of favor.

I'd say that the number of television promos and commercials cut using Final Cut is a better indicator of it's power. With promos you're more likely to be interacting with After Effects and Photoshop, etc. With features you're more likely to be just loading completed effects from a Smoke or Flame.

[SeaFox]

Calling Sin City an excellent and impressive film is a bit of a stretch. Visually it was pretty interesting, but as a film... kinda like feces on celluloid.

I think Southernboy meant visually interesting. You should also remember that it's aim was to faithfully reproduce the graphic novels on the big screen (which it did very well without reverting to pure black and white + 1 color). So if you don't enjoy graphic novels, especially ultra-violent ones, you should have expected to be similarly offended by the film.

This would actually be a good time to note how comicbooks and graphic novels are 'softened' and sometimes rewritten for big screen adaptation. If you saw "V for Vendetta" in theaters and enjoyed it, I would suggest you check out the original graphic novel and see how underwhelming that film was to fans.

[spicyapple]

You know, I just saw SC employees demo'ing Final Touch HD hardware last Friday at a trade show, and the person demonstrating it had a large console with three trackballs and circular wheels and a whole lot of push buttons and levers and LCD displays. He was using it to CC some underwater and glacier footage. If Apple were to incorporate SC FT IP technology, would they somehow do away with the hardware support of FT?

[CHROMEDOME]

What's a "RED" camera? (as I assume it has nothing to do with Bono) :)

It does everything but cure cancer

http://red.com/

[mohaukachi]

this software basically is a confidence system with the ablity to view and grade 10 cineon film sequences before going to a DI (digital intermediate). for me, i would use it to see our 2k renders log color space before delivering things to the client. this helps to keep you from looking like a moron when you see a client in a $2000/hr di session and he goes... why is that color wrong? sadly this kind of program and a rig to run it isnt cheap.

[mohaukachi]

edit double post

[Nicky G]

I sell Final Cut workstations (Xsan, etc.) for a living, and ironically just got signed up as a Silicon Color reseller about a week ago. All I can say is this is potentially great news, and a lot of people are definitely hoping that FT, Shake, and FCP have some sort of a love child that can really take over a huge chunk of the high-end post industry.

As for Final Cut and its place in the industry -- well, let's just say that Apple has a large and growing chunk of the post market, and if they pull a few good moves over the next several years, will really likely mop the floor w/ the other big-A.

Re: Hardware controller for Final Touch -- there are a couple, you either saw one of the MCS-3000 series setups by JL Cooper, or the other main one that is REALLY expensive, can't remember the name offhand. No reason to think Apple would kill hardware controller support, they did no such thing with Logic Pro, and added hardware controller support in Final Cut, Motion...

[LethalWolfe]

You are so ridiculously incorrect. Do your research.
If you think he's "ridiculously incorrect" then I think you should do your research. FCP is predominately used in lower to mid range projects and is rarely used for big budget movies or prime time shows. It's not a knock on the program it's just fact right now.


Lethal

[Nicky G]

this software basically is a confidence system with the ablity to view and grade 10 cineon film sequences before going to a DI (digital intermediate). for me, i would use it to see our 2k renders log color space before delivering things to the client. this helps to keep you from looking like a moron when you see a client in a $2000/hr di session and he goes... why is that color wrong? sadly this kind of program and a rig to run it isnt cheap.

It's a looooot cheaper than a several-hundred-thousand-plus Da Vinci setup, that's for sure! But you are right, it's not "cheap," and why should it be, or else everyone would fancy themselves a colorist, and that would probably just lead to a lot of garbage. Who knows, for all we know, some of this code might end up in iLife (I never thought I would see Logic end up in iLife, that's for sure).

[Nicky G]

It does everything but cure cancer

http://red.com/

LOL -- now that is funny. And I'm pretty psyched about the RED and what it (potentially) represents. But the hype, whoa man. You would think it just might cure cancer. ;)

[parenthesis]

It does everything but cure cancer

http://red.com/

It kind of looks like a sniper rifle.

Can you provide any lay-user details? I didn't bother looking at the tech specs, as I wouldn't likely understand what they were talking about.

It's ultra-high definition, but what makes it so special? Can no other camera do it that well, or in such a small package?

[LethalWolfe]

It kind of looks like a sniper rifle.

Can you provide any lay-user details? I didn't bother looking at the tech specs, as I wouldn't likely understand what they were talking about.

It's ultra-high definition, but what makes it so special? Can no other camera do it that well, or in such a small package?
In a nut shell the camera does everything from 480p to 4k for the current price of 17.5k (body only). Right now the class of camera RED is targeting is 6 figures for the "low-end" camera (like the one Lucas used to shoot Star Wars Ep.III) and rental only for the hi-end (like the camera used to shoot the new Superman movie).

If RED lives up to half its hype that'll still be enough to throw a nice curve ball into the digital cinema camera market.


Lethal

[Evangelion]

Calling Sin City an excellent and impressive film is a bit of a stretch. Visually it was pretty interesting, but as a film... kinda like feces on celluloid.

Opinions are like ***holes: everyone has one, and everyone except your own stinks.

[mi5moav]

So, is REDCINES software and Hardware going to be closed like the ipod. Big hype on the camera. Wouldn't be to funny if the only way you could do workflow was on their software. I'm sure we can convert but if the only thing that can read the DATA is this workflow REDCINE software this could be the next itunes/ipod when it comes to a closed system... which for them if the hype lives up would be great. "sorry boys, if you wan't to use our cameras you are going to have to use our software too" If Sony made the worlds simplest highest quality camera that captured files only in .XD9 format and no other software could handle it then I guess over time people would have to use that hardware software platform even if it wasn't "the best" just like the ipod/itunes phenomena.

[sartinsauce]

I would love to see this technology integrated into FCP. FCP is pretty good software, but I've always had two beefs with it: Color Correction and Media Management.

Looks like they might be making a move to improve their CC features. That's great news. That 3-Way color corrector was cool until I tried to use it. It's pretty effective if you simply want to shift your WB, but it's a lot of work to create sophisticated looks and duplicate the setting across an entire scene (or film).

Media management is the next big hurdle. A lot of people still use Avid because it has a rock solid media management tool. Avid's software is also a lot more stable. It's much less likely to crash when you ask it to work hard. I haven't used FCP 5(.1), but v4.5 was still pretty crashtastic. From what I understand, the Media Management tool remained virtually untouched between 4.5 and 5(.1). Can anyone explain this? I know that reviewers and editors have dogged Apple and FCP for years over the media tool, so why is it still the same?

Many editors also say that Avid is a more elegant interface. I don't know about all that. It seems like a pretty subjective statement to me.

One thing is for sure, FCP is still coming up. Avid is the big boy now, but the next generation of editors (i.e. the 20 year olds currently in school) are all learning FCP. Apple was no fool to offer it cheap and make it good enough for film schools. It has turned out to be an excellent marketing move for the short and long term.

And another thing. Avid still refuses to set a date and/or version for the release of Universal Binaries. WTF is that about?

[pxlmvr7]

I have a little experience from the products.

FinalTouch are very High End products and can't even run on standard High-End Apple workstations except with major performance tweaks such as SATA Raid clustering and a minimum requirement of 4 GB RAM for many features.

So...

...well...

...good news, for film professionals.

You are incorrect.
Final Touch 2K and HD System Requirements

Computer
Apple Power Mac Quad 2.5GHz G5
2GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro 4500FX
Mac OS 10.4.6

Storage
A fast disk subsystem capable of sustaining at least 320MB/s

Displays
2 displays - Minimum resolution of 1280x1024.
For SDI out, a Blackmagic Decklink or AJA Kona is required.

Pretty standard stuff.

pxlmvr

[pxlmvr7]

I would love to see this technology integrated into FCP. FCP is pretty good software, but I've always had two beefs with it: Color Correction and Media Management.

Looks like they might be making a move to improve their CC features. That's great news. That 3-Way color corrector was cool until I tried to use it. It's pretty effective if you simply want to shift your WB, but it's a lot of work to create sophisticated looks and duplicate the setting across an entire scene (or film).

Media management is the next big hurdle. A lot of people still use Avid because it has a rock solid media management tool. Avid's software is also a lot more stable. It's much less likely to crash when you ask it to work hard. I haven't used FCP 5(.1), but v4.5 was still pretty crashtastic. From what I understand, the Media Management tool remained virtually untouched between 4.5 and 5(.1). Can anyone explain this? I know that reviewers and editors have dogged Apple and FCP for years over the media tool, so why is it still the same?

Many editors also say that Avid is a more elegant interface. I don't know about all that. It seems like a pretty subjective statement to me.

One thing is for sure, FCP is still coming up. Avid is the big boy now, but the next generation of editors (i.e. the 20 year olds currently in school) are all learning FCP. Apple was no fool to offer it cheap and make it good enough for film schools. It has turned out to be an excellent marketing move for the short and long term.

And another thing. Avid still refuses to set a date and/or version for the release of Universal Binaries. WTF is that about?

yeah, 4.5 was crashtastic. 5.0 has been much, much, much better. Virtually no crashes on hard work.

[LethalWolfe]

So, is REDCINES software and Hardware going to be closed like the ipod. Big hype on the camera. Wouldn't be to funny if the only way you could do workflow was on their software. I'm sure we can convert but if the only thing that can read the DATA is this workflow REDCINE software this could be the next itunes/ipod when it comes to a closed system... which for them if the hype lives up would be great. "sorry boys, if you wan't to use our cameras you are going to have to use our software too" If Sony made the worlds simplest highest quality camera that captured files only in .XD9 format and no other software could handle it then I guess over time people would have to use that hardware software platform even if it wasn't "the best" just like the ipod/itunes phenomena.
I think you misunderstand what RECINE is for. You use it to downconvert the 4K files (assuming you even shoot at 4K) into pretty much any standard rez and file format you want. It's not like what Sony is doing w/HDCAM and their Xpri NLE, for example.

Media management is the next big hurdle. A lot of people still use Avid because it has a rock solid media management tool. Avid's software is also a lot more stable. It's much less likely to crash when you ask it to work hard. I haven't used FCP 5(.1), but v4.5 was still pretty crashtastic. From what I understand, the Media Management tool remained virtually untouched between 4.5 and 5(.1). Can anyone explain this? I know that reviewers and editors have dogged Apple and FCP for years over the media tool, so why is it still the same?
As far as general crashing goes I think a lot of it depends on how well the systems are set up and maintained. I think Avid still has a bit of an edge, but nothing significant anymore. I've worked on enough of each to know neither can be trusted. ;)

AFAIK, the reason why the Media Manager hasn't been significantly changed in FCP is that it would require a complete rebuild of how FCP handles all the files behind the scenes. *Hopefully* FCP 6 is a complete rebuild from the ground up (or close to it) and the MM gets a big face lift.

Many editors also say that Avid is a more elegant interface. I don't know about all that. It seems like a pretty subjective statement to me.
Elegant? I know a lot of people think it's a more efficient UI but elegant? Maybe back in the mid-90's when it was first developed. :D


Lethal

[xPismo]

This is a pretty high end color correction tool. It's more likely to end up in the next version of Shake than in FCP.

Yes. This will make the Motion/Shake/FinalTouch app all the more important.

Thank you apple for bringing high end finishing to the masses. :cool:

[OutThere]

You are incorrect.
Final Touch 2K and HD System Requirements

Computer
Apple Power Mac Quad 2.5GHz G5
2GB RAM
NVIDIA Quadro 4500FX
Mac OS 10.4.6

Storage
A fast disk subsystem capable of sustaining at least 320MB/s

Displays
2 displays - Minimum resolution of 1280x1024.
For SDI out, a Blackmagic Decklink or AJA Kona is required.

Pretty standard stuff.

pxlmvr

I don't consider a Quadro 4500FX ($1500?) and a disk system with 320MB/s sustained transfer 'pretty standard stuff' for anyone other than 3D rendering pros at this point.

[jholzner]

I don't consider a Quadro 4500FX ($1500?) and a disk system with 320MB/s sustained transfer 'pretty standard stuff' for anyone other than 3D rendering pros at this point.

True. I wonder how Apple will use this. If they just add it to FCP not many people will be able to use it on their systems if they using a MacBook Pro or even an older dual proc. G5. I can hear the complaints already.

[Butthead]

True. I wonder how Apple will use this. If they just add it to FCP not many people will be able to use it on their systems if they using a MacBook Pro or even an older dual proc. G5. I can hear the complaints already.

FT Standard Def, only requires STR of 50MB/s which 2 laptop drives in RAID0 can easily do- actually a 160GB 7.2k rpm Seagate Momentus stated to be shipping in 1st Q07 by Seagate, may do this in a single drive. Only HD requires 320MB/s (which is the same data rate needed to capture the uncompressed 4k output from the upcomming RED camera :)), so a RAID of 10 SATA drives can do this easily, and there are such turnkey systems available for less than $5 (Apple's Xserve Raid are more expensive ;) ). Since Apple has just acquired this product, (no univeral binaries yet, so MBP is a non issue at present :( ); we could expect some changes for the UB version of this software, that may allow it to run on a Santa Rosa/Merom 2.5GHz upgrade MBP to be announced at the April 2007 NAB (they annouced the upgraded 17in PB at NAB). Express Card ports will allow SATA2 bandwidth, which is enough for 320MB/s data flow. But if you look at the current 'system' prices of FT on their website, they aren't pricing it to pros would can't afford 10TB RAID subsystems. $27k for FT2k, yikes!

Currently the ATI x1900 ( http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_right_read_post_frame.cgi?forumid=223&univpostid=300&postid=300) and the AJA cards combo are prefered over the NV Quadro. With new mobile GPU's based on smaller 80nm process being released by both ATI & NV in the next few months, a MBP might have enough GPU power to run FT2k also, assuming Apple can figure out how to kept those higher-end laptop GPU's from melting the MBP, lol.

Benifits of the RED camera are well covered in Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RED_Digital_Cinema

Really cool high-end 4k camera, IMO, is the PHANTOM 65, which should give you true 70mm film-like widescreen performance on a big, big theatre screen. Note, the P65 also has ISO of 600, which is far greater than the 4k Dalsa Origin

PHANTOM 65 (http://www.visionresearch.com/index.cfm?sector=htm/files&page=camera_65_new)