Motorola Rokr Phone Ditching iTunes?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

TGDaily reveals (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/10/20/motorola_rokr_gen_2/) some FCC documents that a new Motorola Rokr phone will take a significant departure from current models.

The new phone is depicted in a black enclosure with a large touch screen and a "central track point" which resembles an iPod. In fact, the photos (http://images.macrumors.com/article/rokr_gen2.jpg) of the upcoming Motorola Rokr bears a surprising resemblance to our Apple phone artist rendition (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060913215342.shtml).

Beyond that, the Motorola Rokr is said to be dropping Apple's iTunes media player in favor of Real Networks' Real One player. This news comes amidst ongoing rumors (http://guides.macrumors.com/iPhone_%28Rumored%29) of Apple's entry into the cell phone market.

Motorola has been the only cell phone manufacturer that has been licensed by Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/07/20040726213823.shtml) to play iTunes protected songs, but their first iTunes phones were met with poor reviews. It's uncertain if this news means that Motorola is planning on dropping iTunes support entirely or simply on certain models.

[spicyapple]

Motorola must know that Apple is coming up with a phone of their own. How else to explain going from iTunes to Real?

[arn]

While the phones look alike, I don't think our sources were mistakenly describing the Motorola phone.

Not sure what that means, or if it was just a coincidence.

Could this be because of Apple not licensing iTunes to Motorola anymore? Could Motorola and Apple somehow be collaborting otherwise? Very interesting...

arn

[D3LM3L]

Looks like Apple has something big enough coming out that it'll wipe out its own iTunes phones.

[BornAgainMac]

The original ROKR phone with iTunes would have been the perfect design for the Real Networks service. It would have been a perfect match.

I would like to thank Motorola for making that phone and getting Apple to make their own phone.

[twoodcc]

While the phones look alike, I don't think our sources were mistakenly describing the Motorola phone.

Not sure what that means, or if it was just a coincidence.

Could this be because of Apple no licensing iTunes to Motorola anymore? Could Motorola and Apple somehow be collaborting otherwise? Very interesting...

arn

i agree, this seems very interesting. i think that Motorola knows that Apple is coming out with a new phone soon, so that's why they are leaving itunes

[NewSc2]

Ditching iTunes for Real? Wow...

I haven't played with the iTunes Motorola phones much, but the UI didn't seem to make me run out and replace my Razr + Nano.

[mahonmeister]

From my experience, Real Player sucks. They make you pay to view some of the videos and the player was quirky. No thanks. They can keep their Rustr or what ever they're calling it now.

[zigziggityzoo]

Here's the Second Gen ROKR:

http://www.wirelessimports.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=591

Here's the Third Gen ROKR:

http://www.wirelessimports.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=624


The phone in question has to be at least the 4th Gen.

[VanMac]

I hate the Motorola UI.

Good match.... them and Real.....

[X5-452]

If it's true, if Apple is going to release an iPhone, I hope the do it within the next 30 days. I just upgraded to the Samsung T609, but like with any phone, I have 30 days to return it and downgrade back to my old one. And I'm not gonna lie, I would love an iPhone.

[MisterMe]

Ditching iTunes for Real? Wow...

I haven't played with the iTunes Motorola phones much, but the UI didn't seem to make me run out and replace my Razr + Nano.Don't you people read anything other than rumor sites? Within the last month, Motorola announced the iTunes-enabled RAZR V3i (http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?q_list=true&q_phoneName=MOTORAZR+with+iTunes&q_sku=sku1000028-0).

[iMacZealot]

The ROKR E1 is the only one intended for the US...the E2, E3, and E6 (described in original post) are for China, and they have been using different music players there. No need to get all hot and bothered...:rolleyes:

[arn]

The ROKR E1 is the only one intended for the US...the E2, E3, and E6 (described in original post) are for China, and they have been using different music players there. No need to get all hot and bothered...:rolleyes:

So why does Motorola need FCC approval for a phone targeted for China?

arn

[iMacZealot]

So why does Motorola need FCC approval for a phone targeted for China?

arn

I read on Engadget Mobile that it's probably set for China because that's where the other ROKRs have been selling and the only american band is 1900, and Cingular, who's been getting all the iTunes phones here, runs on both 1900 and 850, so it's not destined for here unless if they have some out of left field deal with T-Mobile.

[the.snitch]

Who cares - motorola have some good industrial designers - really up there with apple's elegance, but their phone OS is the ugliest, non-intuitive, laggy POS interface out there.
I wanted to like them - but they just seem to be lagging in the software department. You could tell steve hated them too - he looked like he wanted to smash that ROKR when it wasn't working properly in his keynote demo.

I hope if apple makes a phone, their interface takes a page from the SonyEricsson phones. Much easier and nicer to look at.

[iMacZealot]

People, these new ROKRs have new interfaces based off Linux...take a look at it here. (http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/video_moto_e2/) Although Phone Scoop says in its article about the E6 that it is destined for China because of a pen-based Linux OS....hmm.

[savar]

What's the deal with using the RAZR style buttons? I'm not usually one to call things ugly, but those things are plain ugly. I got an E815 instead because I couldn't stand the way the RAZR looked.

[yg17]

Just when I thought Motorola's crap couldn't get any worse, they partner up with Real.

[OdduWon]

the new 007 movie comes out here on nov 17 ,the same dayas ZUNE i think. Wouldn't it be great if apple showed off their iPhone in the theater as James Bond's new gadget ;) lets hope zune dosen't try first. :D


OdduWon

[SeaFox]

Beyond that, the Motorola Rokr is said to be dropping Apple's iTunes media player in favor of Real Networks' Real One player.

Oh yeah. That will sure attract a drove of customers. :rolleyes: :D

Adding a music player known for spyware, who needs the NSA? My phone can spy on me itself!

[CHROMEDOME]

Every Motorola phone is all form and no function.

Hey wait that sounds familiar. :p

[SeaFox]

the new 007 movie comes out here on nov 17 ,the same dayas ZUNE i think. Wouldn't it be great if apple showed off their iPhone in the theater as James Bond's new gadget ;) lets hope zune dosen't try first.

Sorry. The spot is taken. Bond's new handset will be a Sony-Ericsson (http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=4195).

[iMacZealot]

the new 007 movie comes out here on nov 17 ,the same dayas ZUNE i think. Wouldn't it be great if apple showed off their iPhone in the theater as James Bond's new gadget ;) lets hope zune dosen't try first. :D


OdduWon


It's be MUCH MUCH cooler if they had Connery. Hell, Timothy Dalton'd be better than Blond Bond!

[koobcamuk]

The phone in the new James Bond is the SE M600. Not an Apple iPhone.

[iMikeT]

I hope Apple's iPhone doesn't look as ugly as the ones from Motorola.

[OdduWon]

Sorry. The spot is taken. Bond's new handset will be a Sony-Ericsson (http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=4195).
tasty :p do you all think iphone will play catchup to this ^^^ and have hi res camera for ichat mobile?

[Misplaced Mage]

What I find more interesting is that Motorola spent the time, effort, and money to integrate a Real player into their phone software in the same way they did an iTunes player. By all accounts, the later was non-trivial due to the need for it to handle normal phone operations, like a call coming in while the music is playing.

Since Motorola had already integrated a Windows Media player, they've now completed the DRM trifecta: PlaysForSure, FairPlay, and Rhapsody. Unless Zune makes a real dent in the marketplace with it's non-PlaysForSure DRM scheme, Motorola's set no matter which DRM scheme or online music storefront for phones dominates.

[Misplaced Mage]

Sorry. The spot is taken. Bond's new handset will be a Sony-Ericsson (http://www.mi6.co.uk/news/index.php?itemid=4195).Big surprise, given that Sony (along with Comcast and others) purchased United Artists a couple of years ago (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Artists), and thus are co-owners of the Bond film rights...:cool:

[NewSc2]

Don't you people read anything other than rumor sites? Within the last month, Motorola announced the iTunes-enabled RAZR V3i (http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?q_list=true&q_phoneName=MOTORAZR+with+iTunes&q_sku=sku1000028-0).

yeah, i actually read the rumor before it was released :) (on a razr site)

not gonna upgrade, though. while i'm fond of the razr's form, its functionality and durability are subpar.

[mdntcallr]

apple needs to remove the restriction on how many tracks can be stored on the third party phones. let end users actually put however much ram in them as they want.

if they did that, i am sure that some of these phones would sell better.

but to be honest... i dont want a cell phone that plays music.

i want a Ipod, Treo replacement, that also takes nice pics. all in one? hell yeah

[iMacZealot]

apple needs to remove the restriction on how many tracks can be stored on the third party phones. let end users actually put however much ram in them as they want.

if they did that, i am sure that some of these phones would sell better.

but to be honest... i dont want a cell phone that plays music.

i want a Ipod, Treo replacement, that also takes nice pics. all in one? hell yeah

If the V3i for example could hold 1,000 songs and its price was a little lower, we'd be seeing three times as many RAZRS, as popular as they are. And, the iPod would probably go away. However, if they did make their own iPhone with an unlimited iTunes in it, then that would definitely sell very well and work out for Apple. That's why they're doing this.

[chasemac]

I hope Apple's iPhone doesn't look as ugly as the ones from Motorola.
I hope iTunes doesn't look as ugly as it does now. Change it. Forget the phone!!!

[OdduWon]

I hope iTunes doesn't look as ugly as it does now. Change it. Forget the phone!!!
i think leopard will share some of this look. kinda feels xp' ish in a way. I was wishing for chunky metal or custom textures :(

[Chundles]

If the V3i for example could hold 1,000 songs and its price was a little lower, we'd be seeing three times as many RAZRS, as popular as they are. And, the iPod would probably go away. However, if they did make their own iPhone with an unlimited iTunes in it, then that would definitely sell very well and work out for Apple. That's why they're doing this.

Pretty sure there aren't any 4GB microSD cards getting around. 1GB maybe, but not 4GB.

So when push comes to shove unless you want internal, non-removable memory (not a problem in my opinion but others may like to take their cards out) you're stuck with a max of around 240 songs anyway.

[chasemac]

i think leopard will share some of this look. kinda feels xp' ish in a way. I was wishing for chunky metal or custom textures :(


Right! There was an obvious compromise with iTunes and the "movie store"!! Movies are great but why f it up? Sorry. I see a direction I don't like.

[Kingsly]

Arrgh! I just got a new phone! :mad:

[CallmeKenneth]

Bloody.

Hideous.

Goodbye,

Moto!

_________________________
Alternative Mac History - Mactimewarp (http://www.mactimewarp.com)

[kadajawi]

I really like it. Cool design. The RAZR style buttons are the best thing on the Razr phones, like em too. Actually, the buttons were the only thing good on the phone, the rest was pretty ugly. And I just LOVE big touchscreen displays. Who the hell wants buttons anyway? Ok, probably the display isn't that big, they could have integrated a bigger display on that thing. And as long as it plays ordinary MP3s, maybe Ogg Vorbis too, I'm happy. If the sound quality is good, and the MP3 player UI is good (usable from within the pocket without the danger of calling someone accidentally etc.).

[chasemac]

I really like it. Cool design. The RAZR style buttons are the best thing on the Razr phones, like em too. Actually, the buttons were the only thing good on the phone, the rest was pretty ugly. And I just LOVE big touchscreen displays. Who the hell wants buttons anyway? Ok, probably the display isn't that big, they could have integrated a bigger display on that thing. And as long as it plays ordinary MP3s, maybe Ogg Vorbis too, I'm happy. If the sound quality is good, and the MP3 player UI is good (usable from within the pocket without the danger of calling someone accidentally etc.).

Go buy it and get the **** out of here!!!:) Can you here me now?:)

[Lollypop]

when will moto finally get some clear direction? itunes, real an windows media, proprietary OS, Linux, windows mobile and at one point Symbian as well... choose on for peats sake! :mad:

I really hope Apple releases a phone now, while a lot of people are saying they dont want a mp3 player in their phone over here its fast becoming a base requirement for a phone, the ipod has just started to get some atention in our market, i would hate to see it suffer so soon.

[snack]

I dislike Moto's brand, particularly that conspicuous badge. I could never own a phone which presented that hideous logo so forcefully. That M shape has bad feng shui. :-p

Minus the badge, the idea behind the phone's industrial design is on the right track, I suppose.

The UI is a whole different matter. I'd like to see Moto pull off this touchscreen thing. Honestly, they are ridiculed for their sketchy OS, so I am not expecting ground (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/02/20060214231850.shtml) breaking (http://guides.macrumors.com/Image:Gesture11.png) innovation (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060822150105.shtml).

The similarity to the "iPhone" mockup is interesting though. Is Moto's device the iPhone (unlikely, we hope not), will Apple release a device and if so, will it be based on Moto's technology? Time will tell, and I can wait.

[zac4mac]

My T637 is really getting long in the tooth. I won't touch a Moto phone, though, till they get them to sync via iSync thru Bluetooth and do something about reception. Hard to say I love a cell phone, but I am pretty fond of my SE...

Z

[nitynate]

Real is gross.
That phone looks overdone.

Perfect match

[needthephone]

Motorola'sproducts to me look like Cadillacs (sorry) hideous

[lmalave]

From my experience, Real Player sucks. They make you pay to view some of the videos and the player was quirky. No thanks. They can keep their Rustr or what ever they're calling it now.

I disagree - Rhapsody has an excellent interface and I would say even beats iTunes hands down. If they ever come out with a Mac version of the Rhapsody client, I would join. And if Real-powered phones work seamlessly with Rhapsody's subscription DRM, I would be very tempted to buy such a phone.

[lmalave]

Pretty sure there aren't any 4GB microSD cards getting around. 1GB maybe, but not 4GB.

So when push comes to shove unless you want internal, non-removable memory (not a problem in my opinion but others may like to take their cards out) you're stuck with a max of around 240 songs anyway.

There are already 2GB microSD cards, but Verizon Wireless has an exclusive deal with SanDisk where for now they can can only be sold in Verizon Wireless stores (intended for use with the LG Chocolate phone and selling for about $100). I'm not sure when the 2GB cards will be available in other stores.

[spyinthesky]

When I heard that the phone has a remarkably similar look to the iPhone renditions I was worried there for a moment. However all I can say is if people think that is similar to those renditions or that is how an iPhone (a present iPod indeed) will/does look then either I or they need new glasses. I am happy to bet it is they.

[iMacZealot]

Pretty sure there aren't any 4GB microSD cards getting around. 1GB maybe, but not 4GB.

So when push comes to shove unless you want internal, non-removable memory (not a problem in my opinion but others may like to take their cards out) you're stuck with a max of around 240 songs anyway.

There are these crazy little things called hard disks.

[milatchi]

Real? Those guys are still around?

[mcstewart37]

I dunno if this has come up before, but the phone in question is the E690 that's availalbe in China and may be coming to the US soon.

Motorola probably "ditched" Apple and iTunes because this phone runs Linux.

Maybe Apple wasn't willing to develop a Linux version of iTunes after they already had to make a Java version for the current phones...

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/leaked-motorola-loves-linux--e690-pda-phone-199607.php

http://www.handcellphone.com/archives/motorola-e690-pda-phone

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/340/C9460/

[prady16]

Good that Apple got out of the partnership!
Its not Motorola ditching Apple, its good riddens! :p

[peharri]

Could this be because of Apple not licensing iTunes to Motorola anymore? Could Motorola and Apple somehow be collaborting otherwise? Very interesting...


This is really bad news because it (and the recent trademarking news) does point at Apple producing the iPhone and exactly what I've been predicting happening as a result: ie Apple goes into competition with Motorola, Nokia, et al, so no longer stands any chance whatsoever of licensing iTS support to the majority of mobile phone manufacturers. Look at Motorola's choice of DRM'd music provider - Real Networks. It's more than Motorola just choosing to drop iTunes, it's an actual message to Apple, Real Networks being the people Apple accused of "stooping to the ethics of a hacker" because they found a way of making their music play on an iPod while remaining access controlled.

Apple truly has to come up with the ultimate cellphone, a phone so compelling more than 50% of people who buy phones with MP3 support will want it and be able to buy it and will buy it, or else see the iTS wither and die.

I know a lot of people here think Apple can do this. It sounds to me like Apple thinks it can do this. I can't say I agree. I'm not happy with their decisions of late, but can see the business logic behind many of them. However, in this case, I think this is going to be Apple's first major mistake, whether you're on the inside or outside.

[Misplaced Mage]

I dunno if this has come up before, but the phone in question is the E690 that's availalbe in China and may be coming to the US soon.

Motorola probably "ditched" Apple and iTunes because this phone runs Linux.

Maybe Apple wasn't willing to develop a Linux version of iTunes after they already had to make a Java version for the current phones...

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/leaked-motorola-loves-linux--e690-pda-phone-199607.php

http://www.handcellphone.com/archives/motorola-e690-pda-phone

http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/340/C9460/
The iTunes player isn't a Java application, it's integrated directly into the phone operating system. If it were Java-based, there would be no problem pulling iTunes off a phone and putting it on almost any other phone with a J2ME environment. Or almost anything running a Java VM, for that matter, including Linux machines.

[Misplaced Mage]

This is really bad news because it (and the recent trademarking news) does point at Apple producing the iPhone and exactly what I've been predicting happening as a result: ie Apple goes into competition with Motorola, Nokia, et al, so no longer stands any chance whatsoever of licensing iTS support to the majority of mobile phone manufacturers. Look at Motorola's choice of DRM'd music provider - Real Networks. It's more than Motorola just choosing to drop iTunes, it's an actual message to Apple, Real Networks being the people Apple accused of "stooping to the ethics of a hacker" because they found a way of making their music play on an iPod while remaining access controlled.

Apple truly has to come up with the ultimate cellphone, a phone so compelling more than 50% of people who buy phones with MP3 support will want it and be able to buy it and will buy it, or else see the iTS wither and die.

I know a lot of people here think Apple can do this. It sounds to me like Apple thinks it can do this. I can't say I agree. I'm not happy with their decisions of late, but can see the business logic behind many of them. However, in this case, I think this is going to be Apple's first major mistake, whether you're on the inside or outside.And just to muddy the waters further, there's Motorola's (http://broadband.motorola.com/iradio/) iRadio (http://www.iradiowaves.com/) to consider, which is effectively time-shifted radio. Motorola's been quietly working to amass licensing rights from the major record and broadcast media companies for it. To me, it strongly looks like Motorola isn't betting on any one horse to win this race, and has gone so far as to prepare its own entry.

And "...Apple's first major mistake"? Hardly (http://osnews.com/story.php/16036/Apples-Worst-Business-Decisions/page1/).

[mcstewart37]

The iTunes player isn't a Java application, it's integrated directly into the phone operating system. If it were Java-based, there would be no problem pulling iTunes off a phone and putting it on almost any other phone with a J2ME environment. Or almost anything running a Java VM, for that matter, including Linux machines.

I have an unlocked SLVR I bought from Europe and I put iTunes on it and it runs as a Java application. I dunno if you've used SEEM or p2k editors for Motorola phones, but the way it works is that you install iTunes onto the phone using the JAD file with p2kcommander or something similar. I won't say how to do it here or give you the link but its pretty easy to find on the internet.

The reason it was difficult to pull the Java iTune program off the phone was that it relied on the American bootloader. Only phones sold directly from Cingular had this bootloader. All unlocked phones came from Europe, which had an incompatible bootloader. The iTunes program itself had to be hacked to run on phones with the European bootloader. Yes, its true, as long as you alter the iTunes program appropriately, you can run it on any phone or system with a J2ME environment.

[Misplaced Mage]

I dislike Moto's brand, particularly that conspicuous badge. I could never own a phone which presented that hideous logo so forcefully. That M shape has bad feng shui. :-pAnd how is Apple's conspicuous branding any different? All smooth surfaces, straight lines, gentle curves... and BAM! (http://images.apple.com/imac/gallery/images/gallery2imac20060110.jpg) The Apple logo right where you can't miss it.

[Misplaced Mage]

The reason it was difficult to pull the Java iTune program off the phone was that it relied on the American bootloader. Only phones sold directly from Cingular had this bootloader. All unlocked phones came from Europe, which had an incompatible bootloader. The iTunes program itself had to be hacked to run on phones with the European bootloader. Yes, its true, as long as you alter the iTunes program appropriately, you can run it on any phone or system with a J2ME environment.I stand corrected. So a Linux-specific client certainly isn't out of the question.

You know, the whole Real issue could just be a strong-arm tactic on Motorola's part to get Apple to reduce its licensing fees. That sort of thing is pretty common in big business.

[Hasa]

This thread started with rokr info but I noticed that it shifted to a general anti motorola and anti razr postings so I figure I share my thoughts. I really don't get why people hate it so much. granted the ui is not as elegant as a Mac or iPod but it is still very easy to use. Someone commented earlier that they would not buy a razr because they wanted something to sync with their mac. The razr does a great job at this. I've had mine for over a year. iCal and address book sync without any problems. I love the razr, its functionality and compatibility with Tiger. It covers all my needs at this time. Of course once the iPhone comes out, I'll take a look at it and see if its worth the switch for me but I can't say that I will go running to the store and buy one. I don't mind carrying the razr and an iPod but it would be nicer to just take one device. It will all depend on how the iPhone's features/price fit my needs.

[840quadra]

Thanks for the article and links!

This is just showing how petty Moto has become recently. The touted the Rokr E1 too much, pressured Apple, and leaked too much information with regards to that pathetic excuse for MP3-Phone that nobody wanted it when it came out.

Now that Apple is rumored to be coming out with their own MP3/Phone Moto drops iTunes support for Real ? Get 'real' motorola, with Apples pending iPhone, the iPod and the Zune nobody is going to want your MP3 Phone, especially if it will only play MP3 files, and no form of DRM protected media that the Masses are after. Who uses or buys Real DRM media anyway ?!?

::EDIT::

Ignore my run-on sentences and grammar, I am worked up a bit :) . All of my phones are Motorola, and I like the company, but I think this is a stupid move!

[peharri]

You know, the whole Real issue could just be a strong-arm tactic on Motorola's part to get Apple to reduce its licensing fees. That sort of thing is pretty common in big business.

That's not a bad theory. It may not even be the licensing fees that's rankling Motorola so much as the 100 song limit. I'm pretty sure the phone wouldn't have had the poor reception (no pun intended) it had if the iTunes software hadn't been crippled.

[Kaafir]

IMHO music players and phones aren't that great of a combo. It's kinda like lobster and chocolate milkshakes - they're great separate, but one really wouldn't order them together. You could, but it's just kinda strange. (and yes, the lobster and milkshake example is a throwback to an episode of Nip/Tuck)

That's how I feel about phones and mp3 players.

I love my iPod and I love my RAZR, but I don't want them in the same device. Partly because I love the form factor of the phone and also because I want more storage capability than what most phones have.

Just my $0.02

[OdduWon]

does anyone else think that if Zune gets a foot hold in the market they could use their success to strengthen their mobil phone market and take over world communications :eek: with winbox, xbox, and zunebox the telebox is sure to follow :D

[Misplaced Mage]

I'm sure the thought has crossed a few minds (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1960510,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532) in Redmond... :cool:

[OdduWon]

this xbox live culture will be the end of us all unless iTv and the wii take this online culture to a better resting place.

[peharri]

This thread started with rokr info but I noticed that it shifted to a general anti motorola and anti razr postings so I figure I share my thoughts. I really don't get why people hate it so much. granted the ui is not as elegant as a Mac or iPod but it is still very easy to use. Someone commented earlier that they would not buy a razr because they wanted something to sync with their mac. The razr does a great job at this. I've had mine for over a year. iCal and address book sync without any problems. I love the razr, its functionality and compatibility with Tiger. It covers all my needs at this time. Of course once the iPhone comes out, I'll take a look at it and see if its worth the switch for me but I can't say that I will go running to the store and buy one. I don't mind carrying the razr and an iPod but it would be nicer to just take one device. It will all depend on how the iPhone's features/price fit my needs.

There were a lot of Motorola phones about two or three years ago that had serious quality problems. That, and Motorola's long standing reputation for bad UIs based upon the fact they used to sell awful phones that had no menus, various buttons whose use was undocumented, and even 7-segment LED displays, means people repeat the mantra over and over again that Motorola phones are in some way terrible. Just like Apple computers are "expensive", or that Dell makes the only PC compatibles, etc. The reputation continues well after any deserving aspect of it has withered away.

Motorola certainly make some good phones these days. I don't have a RAZR, I imported a V635 for roughly the same price which I think is/was a more capable phone albeit one that's less stylish. It's still pretty elegant though.

Despite the claim that Apple "needs" to enter the mobile phone market because all of the existing models are just too damned complicated and ugly, the truth is there are a lot of stylish phones out there, there always have been, and UIs are better today than ever. Most of the time when there's a problem with a UI, it has to do with a network operator corrupting a manufacturer's perfectly good design than it has to do with any problems with the original design.

Nokia, of course, used to have the market sown up on precisely the market Apple-phone proponents say needs to be "created", what's happened is that everyone has moved closer to Nokia and been heavily influenced by their attention to detail and elegant UIs.

So I'd ignore most of the criticisms of Motorola. It's not that they have no basis, it's more that they're, largely, obsolete or so subjective as to be irrelevent. The success of the RAZR and its immitators tells you a lot about Motorola's ability to produce something desirable in today's market.

[OdduWon]

was just watching cnn and they said that cingular is going to partner with other online music stores to offer music comtent for their phones. Apple will bring the Telepod to kill the zune in two weeks:D

[0010101]

I don't know about this iPhone thing.. I mean.. why would you want to carry around an iPhone AND an iPod?

iPhone has the distinct advantage that you can download music from wherever you have a signal, with no computer required.. but would either have a limited storage capacity, or be very expensive.

In my opinion, a wireless capable iPod makes way more sence than an iPhone.. especially considering how often people like to upgrade their cell phones as soon as the next latest and greatest thing comes out.. hell, my son who is 20 has had 4 different phones in the last 12 months.

Now, if Apple were just to make a wireless iPod that connected to cellular networks to retreve songs, that would be cool. Not a full blown phone.. just cell network connectivity.

You would pay a small monthly 'network' fee, plus regular iTunes rates.. and be able to download new music from where ever you had signal.

[Misplaced Mage]

Little secret? The only thing separating a cell phone from a broadband wireless modem is a computer card bus interface, a microphone, a speaker, and codecs for the analog-to-digital & digital-to-analog conversions required to transmit and receive voice. By the time you get done adding cellular network support to an iPod -- which inherently already has codec support for a number of audio formats -- you may as well add a microphone, a speaker, and support for the standard telephony codecs and make it a full-blown phone. Heck, people run Skype on laptops with wireless modems now!

The catch is that with a phone, you have to conform to a whole new set of FCC guidelines that the wireless modem doesn't (at least, to the same degree) because of the normal proximity of a phone's antenna to your head or body when transmitting while in use. :rolleyes:

[kenneth1ny]

Ok, so how do Mac users sync this one?
I can't get bluetooth to recognize the phone (not supported), but USB works. I can transfer files, but I'd really like to sync my address and calendar!!! Comments very welcome.