Apple Releases MacBook SMC Firmware Update 1.1 [Archive]

MacRumors

Oct 26, 2006, 05:20 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has released MacBook SMC Firmware Update 1.1 (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macbooksmcfirmwareupdate11.html), which aims to improve the MacBook's internal monitoring system and address issues with unexpected shutdowns.

A number of MacBook owners have had their MacBooks intermittently randomly shut down on them, an issue which has come to be known as MacBook RSS (Random Shutdown Syndrome). In a recent summary of the issue, including a pending class-action lawsuit (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2132), AppleInsider quotes Ogrady's PowerPage that nails down the root cause of the issue to the following:

"Essentially the heatsink can expand during use, and comes into contact with the lead from the [thermometer's] sensor cable," reads a more detailed explanation posted at Ogrady's Power Page. "A short circuit results, and the SMC (System Management Controller) pulls the plug. Once the system cools down, the heatsink [recedes] and the contact is broken."

As is the case with all firmware upgrades, Apple cautions users to not interrupt the update. Detailed information regarding the update can be found here (http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n304308).

longofest

Oct 26, 2006, 05:23 PM

here's some of my speculation about this update...

While we don't know exactly how the Firmware update was designed, it would appear as though the update could simply ignore symptoms of a SMC short circuit to allow the laptop to continue operating. If this is the case it may degrade a MacBook's ability to detect true over-heat situations.

AppleInsider had previously reported that a new MacBook logic board was under development to eliminate the root hardware issue, but a release date was not known.

gavd

Oct 26, 2006, 05:24 PM

A friend of mine has just received his MacBook back from Apple where they replaced the heatsink because of the issue. Hopefully this will solve it for others though!

QCassidy352

Oct 26, 2006, 05:33 PM

While we don't know exactly how the Firmware update was designed, it would appear as though the update will simply ignore symptoms of a SMC short circuit to allow the laptop to continue operating. If this is the case it may degrade a MacBook's ability to detect true over-heat situations.

I agree. This seems a risky way to deal with a hardware defect. My first macbook had RSS, and apple exchanged it for a new one with me. If this one started doing it I'd be very worried - firmware update or no.

Donz0r

Oct 26, 2006, 05:33 PM

Just got my macbook back today.

They replaced the heatsink (Again), apparently last time they just replaced it with another faulty one because I complained about it taking too long (over 2 weeks) even though they had already come out with another heatsink. This time they replaced it with a better heatsink. So hopefully it hsouldn't happen again. If it's a hardware issue though, I don't see how a firmware update would fix anything.

runninmac

Oct 26, 2006, 05:33 PM

Oh dang, these firmware updates make me nervous... so im going to wait and let others be the guinea pig.

PS: This should save apple a ton of cash

crap freakboy

Oct 26, 2006, 05:34 PM

As long as Apple are being above board on this design flaw and offering a repair for those affected at no cost then alls well and good I say.
Must be a pain to have to wait for the repair though.

kainjow

Oct 26, 2006, 05:38 PM

After applying the update, it seems like it's running cooler. I'm getting 53-54C now, when normally it's 58-59.

iViking

Oct 26, 2006, 05:38 PM

Not too inspiring for those of us who know how serious RSD is.

If it works, great...but there will always be a question as to how fragile the inner workings of a RSD computer is.

I like Apple but I was surprised in a bad way about this...imagine your computer shutting down completely and completely randomly every 5-120 minutes.

I got a replacement and I'm sure most others will want one, too.

Mudbug

Oct 26, 2006, 05:39 PM

couldn't they just shorten the heat sink about a bajillionth of an inch and keep them from touching?

quigleybc

Oct 26, 2006, 05:39 PM

I'm planning on buying a Macbook in March ish...

They better get the ****** resolved by then.

It's absurd.

brepublican

Oct 26, 2006, 05:40 PM

:mad: It's about time Apple did something about these MB's. I work for IT and I've had atleast 5 reports of random shutting down (and then failing to go past the gray screen after start up). EDIT: the past fortnight

I wouldn't go near these machines if I was in the market for a portable...

longofest

Oct 26, 2006, 05:41 PM

I agree. This seems a risky way to deal with a hardware defect. My first macbook had RSS, and apple exchanged it for a new one with me. If this one started doing it I'd be very worried - firmware update or no.

Yup. The way to properly handle the problem is to replace the MoBo's. I don't want to start a "this update will make your laptop overheat" rumor, but I'm pretty certain that they are trying to bypass the root defect.

kainjow

Oct 26, 2006, 05:44 PM

I wouldn't go near these machines if I was in the market for a portable...
Well my MB was bought the day they were announced - my local Apple store didn't have them on display yet :) and mine hasn't had the shutdown issue.

I thought this pic Engadget posted is pretty funny:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg

slb

Oct 26, 2006, 05:44 PM

While we don't know exactly how the Firmware update was designed, it would appear as though the update will simply ignore symptoms of a SMC short circuit to allow the laptop to continue operating. If this is the case it may degrade a MacBook's ability to detect true over-heat situations.

This is what I assumed when I read that the update "resolves" the issue, which is pretty optimistic wording. Perhaps they implemented some firmware method to detect overheating that doesn't rely on the sensor. I would love to know more information, since this update will appear for everyone with a MacBook whether or not they've been experiencing the shutdowns.

LSK6453

Oct 26, 2006, 05:47 PM

I applied the firmware w/o issue... Looks to be running well and my temps are staying more even as I continue to use it.

43.2 C right now

MacinDoc

Oct 26, 2006, 05:54 PM

here's some of my speculation about this update...

While we don't know exactly how the Firmware update was designed, it would appear as though the update will simply ignore symptoms of a SMC short circuit to allow the laptop to continue operating. If this is the case it may degrade a MacBook's ability to detect true over-heat situations.

AppleInsider had previously reported that a new MacBook logic board was under development to eliminate the root hardware issue, but a release date was not known.
Perhaps it allows the MacBook to recognize the output you would get from a short-circuited thermometer cable and ignore it, while still monitoring its regular output (at least when it's not short-circuited). Or maybe it decreases the threshold at which the fans kick it, preventing the heat sink from expanding as much. I doubt that Apple would provide a firmware update that would instruct the MacBook to ignore all information from the thermometer, as this would be a recipe for disaster in no time.

081440

Oct 26, 2006, 05:57 PM

How can one tell if their MacBook is one that could be affected?

And

How are you guys finding your temperatures? A dashboard widget or something?

chairguru22

Oct 26, 2006, 05:57 PM

im ruuning at 50ish which is what its always at...

chairguru22

Oct 26, 2006, 05:58 PM

How can one tell if their MacBook is one that could be affected?

And

How are you guys finding your temperatures? A dashboard widget or something?

iStat nano widget

Gfog

Oct 26, 2006, 05:59 PM

Ive held off the last firmware update (ver 1.0) as i dont want the fans on contineously, does this update still lead to the fans being on more?

MacinDoc

Oct 26, 2006, 06:00 PM

After applying the update, it seems like it's running cooler. I'm getting 53-54C now, when normally it's 58-59.
I applied the firmware w/o issue... Looks to be running well and my temps are staying more even as I continue to use it.

43.2 C right now
So, it looks like Apple is trying to fix the problem by keeping the MacBook cooler, thus preventing the heat sink from expanding enough to come into contact with the cable. A simple, elegant solution, except it will likely cause increased fan use and decreased battery life, but these are minor inconveniences compared to random shutdown.

slb

Oct 26, 2006, 06:03 PM

So, it looks like Apple is trying to fix the problem by keeping the MacBook cooler, thus preventing the heat sink from expanding enough to come into contact with the cable. A simple, elegant solution, except it will likely cause increased fan use and decreased battery life, but these are minor inconveniences compared to random shutdown.

I don't think this is what is happening, because Apple has increased fan frequency before, and it didn't prevent the issue. The KB page claims that this update "resolves the issue," which is pretty definitive wording, so I suspect the firmware's sensor monitoring behavior has changed in some way that ignores the short-circuit. I'd love to have more information from those technically-minded enough to find out.

whenpaulsparks

Oct 26, 2006, 06:11 PM

well, let's see if it stays on long enough to apply the update.

touché

nsjoker

Oct 26, 2006, 06:13 PM

Well my MB was bought the day they were announced - my local Apple store didn't have them on display yet :) and mine hasn't had the shutdown issue.

I thought this pic Engadget posted is pretty funny:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg

i am laughing uncontrollably right now, wowowowowow :D :D :D :D :D :D

Chrispy

Oct 26, 2006, 06:14 PM

My old roommate's macbook started shutting down randomly last night. She is not pleased to say the least. Quality control... it is a beautiful thing... something Apple should give a try sometime haha!

sososowhat

Oct 26, 2006, 06:14 PM

I had my HeatSink replaced a few weeks ago. I'd had random shutdowns every few hours, to then every few minutes, to then within a minute of booting. I took the MacBook into the Stanford Apple Store & they immediately knew what the issue was. It sounded like they'd seen it a lot. They had it overnight & returned it. Problem seems to be totally gone.

Question though: it says that this firmware fix is even for people who've had their heatsinks replaced. That seems odd, doesn't it? Either they put a better (sized) heatsink in, or they didn't. I'm hesitant to mess with it again & install this "fix". It ain't broke!

starlabs

Oct 26, 2006, 06:14 PM

That's my concern too... Mine developed random shutdowns a week ago and it is truly random - it's happened on occasions when I wasn't even pushing the cpu much. I'm afraid the Mac will shutdown as I'm applying the firmware fix...

I have an appt at a genius bar later tonight to send my MacBook in for the random shutdown issue. I'll install this first and see how it goes. And if I brick it... well that's another thing I can tell the Apple employee :rolleyes:

retrospek

Oct 26, 2006, 06:23 PM

I've just installed this update and my Macbook volume seems much louder than before..

Unless I'm imagining it :D Anyone else noticed ?

instantdan

Oct 26, 2006, 06:27 PM

danielwsmithee

Oct 26, 2006, 06:31 PM

the key issue in my case was that my macbook couldn't go to sleep or be closed, everytime it woke up, it wouldn't last longer than 3 seconds and then shut down and all of the other known symptoms.

I ran the firmware upgrade and it works fine now, it's not hot or anything and the fans seem to be working at a normal pace.

Well, I am grateful for the fact that I don't have to turn in the mac for 5 days or more for servicing... I make a living out of this thingy...:DSome firmware engineer is going to get a very good performance review if this truly does fix the problem. There is nothing a company loves more then finding a way in software to fix a hardware problem and saving the company millions of dollars in repair costs.

trapperjohn117

Oct 26, 2006, 06:32 PM

ok im going in! hopefully my blackbook will emerge unscathed.

metooplease

Oct 26, 2006, 06:36 PM

i would fall of my chair laughing if apple did some notification that you shouldn't shut down your macbook during the firmware update... hhehehe :D

trapperjohn117

Oct 26, 2006, 06:39 PM

hehe!!! my macbook lives on with a shiny new firmware!

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3336/picture3dh9.png

whenpaulsparks

Oct 26, 2006, 06:41 PM

i would fall of my chair laughing if apple did some notification that you shouldn't shut down your macbook during the firmware update... hhehehe :D

they did. check the article. pretty ironic.

but i just installed it on my blackbook without a hitch. mid-summer mine was shutting down, then after the 1.0 firmware update it worked fine, and it just started again this week. i've been using it for 30 mins since the 1.1 update with no shutdowns.

i wonder if it just ignores that temp sensor shorting out? there's bound to be other temp sensors in the case, they could just completely ignore that one.

WillMak

Oct 26, 2006, 06:46 PM

iJawn108

Oct 26, 2006, 06:47 PM

i havent had any random shut downs on my blackbook or even had it that hot. i do use smc fan control and leave it at 3303 rpm keeps it at about 52-54

Kingsly

Oct 26, 2006, 06:58 PM

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg
I hope Apple releases a OSX update that enables that feature on my MBP... like the two finger click.
I cant believe they would put an extra feature on a consumer machine and leave out all us pro users!! :D

skunk

Oct 26, 2006, 07:02 PM

My Week 36 MacBook runs quietly, coolly and reliably. Should I apply the update?

cecildk9999

Oct 26, 2006, 07:04 PM

iStat nano widget

I have a question; I run istat nano widget, but have never gotten the temperature readout to work (everything else works fine). Is there something I need to do/can do to get it to register, or does this mean something is messed up on my computer?

EricNau

Oct 26, 2006, 07:09 PM

I've been very disappointed with these MacBooks. All of the problems I've had and all of the problems I've heard about have proven, in my opinion, that Apple's quality is no longer what it used to be.

Apple charges a nice premium for their machines, one which I am willing to pay, assuming I get a better quality computer, but I don't believe this is the case.

Apple's reluctance to replace problematic MacBooks just adds to the issue.

I would suggest that Apple implement some quality control for their MacBook line, but we all know what happens when they do. ;) :rolleyes:

kurtc

Oct 26, 2006, 07:10 PM

We bought seven MacBooks shortly after they were released and three of them started having problems (random shutdown) almost immediately. When the third one started acting up I called our vendor to ask if there were any know problems. It was obvious that they had answered that question before it came from me (and interesting that they never mentioned it when I sent in the first two). We sent all three of them back to Apple for new motherboards, no cost and no questions. The down side is that the kept each machine for 10 business days because of their backlog.

redfire

Oct 26, 2006, 07:12 PM

My Week 36 MacBook runs quietly, coolly and reliably. Should I apply the update?

Yes. It fixed my week 21 Macbook that just got RSS two days ago. Even if your Macbook runs nicely now, it could get RSS in the future and when you call Apple all they're going to tell you is to install the firmware update.

williamsonrg

Oct 26, 2006, 07:19 PM

The later option involves an ugly screw in the middle of your macbook.

I just had my heatsink replaced last weekend, and I just now noticed the screw. Oh well...:cool:

WillMak

Oct 26, 2006, 07:26 PM

I just had my heatsink replaced last weekend, and I just now noticed the screw. Oh well...:cool:

Does your screw stick out a little bit or is it leveled with the plastic?

YS2003

Oct 26, 2006, 07:26 PM

Well my MB was bought the day they were announced - my local Apple store didn't have them on display yet :) and mine hasn't had the shutdown issue.

I thought this pic Engadget posted is pretty funny:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg
This is a classic. Also, he clicked that option on.

SoGood

Oct 26, 2006, 07:30 PM

Here's a question to ponder...How are people suppose to install this firmware if there macbooks keep shutting down?

Anyways, I reccomend people use this firmware instead of geting their heatsink replaced. The later option involves an ugly screw in the middle of your macbook.
At the next RSD, press the power button and don't let go until you hear a musical sound (maybe holding the button 4-5 second). Then when it reboots, it'll force the CUP to operate at 1GHz. And you won't get the shut down problem. This would probably be the best condition under which to do this firmware update. Good luck!

Spectrum

Oct 26, 2006, 07:33 PM

I just had my heatsink replaced last weekend, and I just now noticed the screw. Oh well...:cool:
They ADDED a screw?? I mean, they drilled a new hole in the casing???

That seems like a crazy repair job if ever I've heard one.

skunk

Oct 26, 2006, 07:35 PM

They ADDED a screw?? I mean, they drilled a new hole in the casing???

That seems like a crazy repair job if ever I've heard one.I'd be inclined to turn such a "fix" down.

WillMak

Oct 26, 2006, 07:39 PM

They ADDED a screw?? I mean, they drilled a new hole in the casing???

That seems like a crazy repair job if ever I've heard one.

Yeap, they drilled a hole in the center of the macbook and added a screw.

MacCheetah3

Oct 26, 2006, 07:42 PM

Hi
Here's a question to ponder...How are people suppose to install this firmware if there macbooks keep shutting down?
Easy...With any firmware / SMC update, the sensors are ignored. This is the same thing with the Hardware Test CD as well. This is easily apparent because when the machine is updating the firmware, fans go to "deafening" mode.

Why is all of this? Ever since the elaborate cooling of the Power Mac G5 to keep things quiet, the cooling system has relied on a number of sensors throughout the casing, monitored by both a hardware thermal chip and the Mac OS X kernel. Take away Mac OS X and you are left with a dysfunctional cooling system...So, the hardware chip sets all fans to the highest speed in order to prevent overheating due to lack of information being supplied to it.

One last thing...

My MacBook is an earlier unit and within the affected [serial number] range. I constantly push my MacBook to maximum temps for a number of hours continuously with DVD ripping / re-encoding and have not had one unexpected shutdown yet. So, please, let's not make this sound like some kind of plague...I now how most enjoy exaggerating these 'things'.

P.S. I read somewhere that it was the insulation of the sensor wire burning / melting off, therefore, causing a short. So, replacing the heatsink would also include a new sensor wire(s) that are constructed / routed better and not degrade with sustained high heat. The expanding heatsink sounds a little sketchy but possible...However, that'd be some impressive expansion as I'd guess Apple gives more more leeway than that between the heatsink and other components.

dlastmango

Oct 26, 2006, 08:04 PM

Yeap, they drilled a hole in the center of the macbook and added a screw.

OK... who can show us a pic of this extra screw?

aristobrat

Oct 26, 2006, 08:09 PM

I would suggest that Apple implement some quality control for their MacBook line, but we all know what happens when they do. ;) :rolleyes:
Because better quality control would have caught a hardware design error that doesn't happen to every MacBook and took 3 months (and several hundred thousand sold) to become prevalent?

The MacBook Pro and MacBook are Apple's first two attempts at notebooks using an entirely new architecture inside (Intel). Add to that the entirely new everything else that the MacBook got, and frankly I'm impressed that the RSS and case discoloration have been the only two issues.

aristobrat

Oct 26, 2006, 08:10 PM

OK... who can show us a pic of this extra screw?
I have a screw in the bottom middle of my MacBook, but I honestly don't remember if it was there before I sent it in or not. Either way, it looks (and if I run my finger over it, it feels) like it was originally there, so I'm not sweating it.

hagjohn

Oct 26, 2006, 08:10 PM

I'm installed the updated but my temps have gone up.. from about 34C degrees to about 54C.

dlastmango

Oct 26, 2006, 08:14 PM

I have a screw in the bottom middle of my MacBook, but I honestly don't remember if it was there before I sent it in or not. Either way, it looks (and if I run my finger over it, it feels) like it was originally there, so I'm not sweating it.

i have a week 26 white 2.0 MB. it has a screw on the bottom in the dead center. it was never serviced.

muzikool

Oct 26, 2006, 08:23 PM

I bought my MacBook at an Apple Store on the day it was released, and it has a screw in the very middle as well.

zucka

Oct 26, 2006, 08:26 PM

I'm not sure if my macbook's shutdown apply to the ones being discussed, but I suppose that's my question. I received my macbook in early september, and within a week it started to freeze the screen intermittently, and after a few days became more and more frequent. BUT THEN it started giving me kernel panics often. Both issues built up until I was having to shut down my computer 7+ times in a day. These were all random occurrences with no links to running certain programs, etc. I sent it in to AppleCare and they replaced the HD (after I had already wiped it, reinstalled, and the problem started again). After a couple weeks of getting my serviced macbook back, the problem has started again from the start, starting slow and then happening 7+ times in a day. AppleCare has told me that there is nothing they can do until the problem becomes increasingly worse, to the point that they can reproduce the problem easily. This is very upsetting, since with the very consistent progression of these kernel panics (and freezes) will land right around my midterms....ANYONE have ANY suggestions here? I don't even know if this is in relation to the random shutdowns you're talking about... But I'm desperate here.

aristobrat

Oct 26, 2006, 08:30 PM

I'm installed the updated but my temps have gone up.. from about 34C degrees to about 54C.
34C is really, really low. 54C sounds more normal. How does your MacBook feel to the touch? Warmer? Perhaps it was reading the temp incorrectly before and is now reading it correctly?

i have a week 26 white 2.0 MB. it has a screw on the bottom in the dead center. it was never serviced.
Hmm. Maybe WillMak meant some place else then?

hagjohn

Oct 26, 2006, 08:39 PM

34C is really, really low. 54C sounds more normal. How does your MacBook feel to the touch? Warmer? Perhaps it was reading the temp incorrectly before and is now reading it correctly?

It's warmer near the power cord than it use to be and I'm only browsing the web. Nothing else.

dsnort

Oct 26, 2006, 08:46 PM

After being very happy, ( and smug ), for a long time that my black MB didn't have the RSS, it got it. Over a period of a couple of weeks it went from never shutting down, to shutting down every now and then, to I couldn't keep it running for 10 minutes in a row.

I took it to the Genius bar at the Apple store in the international plaza in Tampa, where they replaced the heatsink. Took them about an hour to get it back to me. So far, so good.

A note, I don't believe that the RSS is related to actual temps. One time when my MB shutdown I had the dashboard open, and the intel Core Duo temp widget was reporting a temp of 34 C. Then blink, it was off. I did notice that as my MB got worse and worse, I didn't her the fans come on, ever. Before the RSS started, they would come on now and again. Since the repair, they seem to be running more normally. Fixing to do the firmware update, here's hoping!

starlabs

Oct 26, 2006, 09:24 PM

I was able to install the firmware update without any problems - to an external USB boot drive noless :p

Testing now... So far, so good.

twoodcc

Oct 26, 2006, 09:25 PM

well i guess i better download this. i haven't had my macbook shutdown on me, but better to be safe than sorry

myshoeshurt

Oct 26, 2006, 09:27 PM

I thought this pic Engadget posted is pretty funny:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg
LOL. I just came to post this picture. Ahhhhh I love engadget. :D

slb

Oct 26, 2006, 10:08 PM

There's always been an 11mm Phillips screw in the center of the bottom of the MacBook. You can see it in these disassembly instructions (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook/Complete-Disassembly-Page-6-Upper-Case).

Chrispy

Oct 26, 2006, 10:15 PM

NicP

Oct 26, 2006, 10:18 PM

I have a question; I run istat nano widget, but have never gotten the temperature readout to work (everything else works fine). Is there something I need to do/can do to get it to register, or does this mean something is messed up on my computer?

Install CoreDuoTemp, it will install the necessary bits and pieces to make the temperature readout work

wildmac

Oct 26, 2006, 10:23 PM

any guesses on whether this might be a sign of less or more time before a MacBook refresh by Apple?....

vccavtech

Oct 26, 2006, 10:31 PM

After applying the update, it seems like it's running cooler. I'm getting 53-54C now, when normally it's 58-59.

I got my mb the moment the were selling them in cincinnati and i've had one problem. It discolors, but i can almost get over that. I have never had the over heating issue, my computer stays around 35c and 40c. The new update scared the crap out of me when the fans went into full blast. they've never done that ever! now my battery seems to not last long at all. this could be an issue in the future... Wear and tair on the battery from recharging it all the time. I used to be able to use my mb all day, low screen brightness, not blue tooth, no wifi, no problem. Now i cant even go to work without my charger. Really sad. I really want to save up for a mbp and put this energy beast on ebay.

Manzana

Oct 26, 2006, 10:48 PM

I was able to install the firmware update without any problems - to an external USB boot drive noless :p

Is that possible? You're booting from an external and applying the firmware update to your mac right?

starlabs

Oct 26, 2006, 11:01 PM

Is that possible? You're booting from an external and applying the firmware update to your mac right?

Yes... I had bought a 160gb drive to replace the 60gb that my MacBook came with. After installing the new drive, I put the old 60gb into an external USB SATA enclosure. However, since I was about to meet a tech at the local genius bar, I swapped out my upgrades (the 160gb HD and 2gb RAM) to the hardware my MacBook originally came with (60gb and 512mb RAM).

Long story short, I booted up my external HD - now running my 160gb HD - and installed the firmware update to that drive. Note that keeping the option key down upon reboot after installing from the firmware pkg won't work. You install the pkg, have it reboot, and let it run (you'll see a progress bar). Once the progress bar finishes, your MacBook will reboot again. At this point, keep down the option key to boot from the external drive.

BTW I've been running my MacBook at full tilt (using the random shutdown test tool) for > 30-40 minutes and not a shutdown in sight. I've also put my MacBook to sleep and it awakens fine. Looks like this update has fixed the random shutdown issue for me. One word: AWESOME! :D

EasyB

Oct 26, 2006, 11:20 PM

After upgrade things are better and quieter. I always have my activity monitor running and it is always showing allot of CPU activity and my fans are/were always running on full blast. After the update CPU activity seems much lower. The fans, when they do come on, slowly and quietly spool up. And I don't have a temp monitor, but my lap said that it is running cooler. I don't know if I am crazy or not. Is anyone else noticing better processor performance? I say great fix Apple.

And in the update process Apple does say that even those that even those macbooks that were sent in for repairs (heat sink, MB, etc) need to do the update. My guess is that at the time you had your book repaired, Apple didn't know the real problem, so they threw in some logic boards and some heat sinks in the hope that would fix the issues. Just my thought.

-B

jobberwacky

Oct 26, 2006, 11:33 PM

Anyways, I reccomend people use this firmware instead of geting their heatsink replaced. The later option involves an ugly screw in the middle of your macbook.
Not only that. It will also make your keyboard turn pink and on a moonless night the Combo drive will start to play "La Cucaracha".

Lixivial

Oct 27, 2006, 12:30 AM

Shagrat

Oct 27, 2006, 12:42 AM

I've just installed this update and my Macbook volume seems much louder than before..

Unless I'm imagining it :D Anyone else noticed ?

Think you're imagining it. Have updated my MB and i still can't hear the fan in normal usage. I expect it will kick in at some time when it decides things are getting a bit hot.

What I don't understand is that i only started getting shutdowns after the upgrade to 10.4.8 and it's associated firmware UG. And it seemed truly random, i.e. shortly after bootup (when the MB was still cool!) or after several hours, which is why I don't understand how a thermally expanding heatsink could be the culprit. If so, then it should always shutdown as the temperature rises to a certain point.

Dunno, just hope this new updater fixes the problem.

Shagrat

Oct 27, 2006, 12:43 AM

Hmmmn, my Keyboard just turned pink....AGGGHH!

nomad01

Oct 27, 2006, 01:14 AM

34C is really, really low. 54C sounds more normal. How does your MacBook feel to the touch? Warmer? Perhaps it was reading the temp incorrectly before and is now reading it correctly?

Is this under normal operating conditions? Not pushing it?

According to CoreDuoTemp and iStatPro, my MB is usually around 19 to 25C. I've seen it reach 50ish when I push it. :confused: :confused:

mustgroove

Oct 27, 2006, 01:44 AM

Abstract

Oct 27, 2006, 01:57 AM

Oh dang, these firmware updates make me nervous... so im going to wait and let others be the guinea pig.

No way I'm going to do this update. This will not benefit me in any way whatsoever. At most, it'll ignore any "true" problem and not shut down when necessary. I won't install this update for like 6 months to see if this happens to others. Why should I install it when I don't even have this RSS issue, right? It'll just create a safety hole in my system.

After applying the update, it seems like it's running cooler. I'm getting 53-54C now, when normally it's 58-59.

Ah yes, let these types of posts begin. ;)

jobberwacky

Oct 27, 2006, 02:12 AM

Ah yes, let these types of posts begin. ;)
Yes, after installing the update my MB definitively feels nippier.

Repairing permissions will decrease the temperature by another 2°C. At least.

Cue

Oct 27, 2006, 03:12 AM

Although I never had a RSS, I did apply the update.
I'm curious about those temps you are mentioning though.

I have CoreDuoTemp installed and it shows 57C without doing anything fancy! Just Mail.app and Safari are open and I haven't done any serious work in the meantime.

34C seems kinda low :/

jhande

Oct 27, 2006, 04:01 AM

Just installed the update on a week 39 MB. So far so good.

However, iStat Nano (the latest one from today) can't read the temp. It's got a new 'Fans' setting, but no joy there either.

FanControl and CoreDuoTemp finally agree, however, on the temperature. Previously CoreDuoTemp showed the temp at boot-up, or out of sleep, which was why I was reporting 19C. Now the temp under minimal load hovers around 50-54 - which is fine.

jhande

dagaz

Oct 27, 2006, 04:04 AM

Think you're imagining it. Have updated my MB and i still can't hear the fan in normal usage. I expect it will kick in at some time when it decides things are getting a bit hot.

I think the original poster was talking about the speaker volume, and I happen to agree - I think my speaker volume is slightly louder.

Music_Producer

Oct 27, 2006, 04:14 AM

Seems to have solved my Macbook shutdown problem. It used to shut down 4-5 times a day.. since I applied the patch.. it hasn't shut down since the last 5 hours. It's also very quiet.. it was always quiet but sometimes the fans would kick in.. now I hear nothing.

Quite pleased that Apple takes notice and figures out solutions rather quickly.

Music_Producer

Oct 27, 2006, 04:19 AM

Think you're imagining it. Have updated my MB and i still can't hear the fan in normal usage. I expect it will kick in at some time when it decides things are getting a bit hot.

What I don't understand is that i only started getting shutdowns after the upgrade to 10.4.8 and it's associated firmware UG. And it seemed truly random, i.e. shortly after bootup (when the MB was still cool!) or after several hours, which is why I don't understand how a thermally expanding heatsink could be the culprit. If so, then it should always shutdown as the temperature rises to a certain point.

Dunno, just hope this new updater fixes the problem.

Same here.. my MB started shutting down after updating to 10.4.8 (and the fan firmware update I think) It would shut down when I would just start her up.. or, as you mentioned.. after several hours of use. I formatted the drive and reinstalled 10.4.6.. but shutdowns continued. Weird.

dernhelm

Oct 27, 2006, 04:46 AM

Yes, after installing the update my MB definitively feels nippier.

Repairing permissions will decrease the temperature by another 2°C. At least.

Safari runs faster too :D

skunk

Oct 27, 2006, 04:51 AM

Same here.. my MB started shutting down after updating to 10.4.8 (and the fan firmware update I think) It would shut down when I would just start her up.. or, as you mentioned.. after several hours of use. I formatted the drive and reinstalled 10.4.6.. but shutdowns continued. Weird.I read somewhere that starting up produces an early peak of stress and heat before it settles down again. This might explain why it either happens very early on OR when the machine has warmed up generally.

macenforcer

Oct 27, 2006, 05:13 AM

Well my MB was bought the day they were announced - my local Apple store didn't have them on display yet :) and mine hasn't had the shutdown issue.

Same here. Got a black one the day of release from apple store and have not had a single problem. I guess that was the only good batch.

drlunanerd

Oct 27, 2006, 05:23 AM

No way I'm going to do this update. This will not benefit me in any way whatsoever. At most, it'll ignore any "true" problem and not shut down when necessary...

Isn't everyone assuming here that the root problem is a heatsink issue? Has Apple ever announced that it was? Perhaps it isn't at all, or that's only part of the equation, and it is in fact an SMC control problem. There's a lot of FUD here - people saying they've had extra screws drilled in their MacBooks which is total BS.

I wouldn't try second-guessing Apple engineers. If they've released an update recommended to make the MacBook more reliable, I say use it.

drlunanerd

Oct 27, 2006, 05:25 AM

Quite pleased that Apple takes notice and figures out solutions rather quickly.

I wouldn't call 5 months quick...

amacgenius

Oct 27, 2006, 05:27 AM

What's the vibe on this update for people who haven't had any RSS problems so far, and whose machines haven't been in for service at all???

I'm tempted to do it anyway, to stave off the possibility that it might eventually go to **** in a couple months (a la people whose week 19 machines have been fine till yesterday kinda thing), but then that old saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" pops into my mind...

I've got a week 18 BlackBook, no problems at all, never a random shutdown after both the 1.0 and 1.1 firmware updates.

The 1.0 raised my idling temp to around 54º and the 1.1 update pushed it up to about 56º but other than that no problems.

jobberwacky

Oct 27, 2006, 05:31 AM

Isn't everyone assuming here that the root problem is a heatsink issue? Has Apple ever announced that it was? Perhaps it isn't at all, or that's only part of the equation, and it is in fact an SMC control problem.
The heatsink most definitively the culprit in my case. I had my MB 1.83GHz repaired three days ago and haven't had a RSD since. The heatsink was replaced, but I didn't get a free screw.

MacBoobsPro

Oct 27, 2006, 05:52 AM

Seems weird that a hardware problem is being solved by a software fix? :confused:

How can a firmware update stop a wire shorting the circuit?

Shadow

Oct 27, 2006, 05:53 AM

Everthings good here. Installed on MacBook 1.83GHz Core Duo, 2GB RAM, 100GB HD. Downloaded, restarted, fans came on full blast for about 4 seconds, rebooted and everything is fine. Never had (and I hope never will) have the RSS but I installed anyway. Bootup chime seems a little louder and bootup time is decreased! :D

skunk

Oct 27, 2006, 05:55 AM

Seems weird that a hardware problem is being solved by a software fix? :confused:

How can a firmware update stop a wire shorting the circuit?As has been suggested earlier, by instructing the controller to ignore anomalous input from the sensor, or by kicking in the fans earlier to prevent rapid expansion of the heatsink on startup, or both.

MacBoobsPro

Oct 27, 2006, 05:57 AM

As has been suggested earlier, by instructing the controller to ignore anomalous input from the sensor, or by kicking in the fans earlier to prevent rapid expansion of the heatsink on startup, or both.

But still its not a total fix is it. If you really push your machine it is likely to shutdown again. Also 'ignoring' a potential fire hazard is a bit dangerous dont you think.

Evangelion

Oct 27, 2006, 07:27 AM

willybNL

Oct 27, 2006, 07:31 AM

Oh dang, these firmware updates make me nervous... so im going to wait and let others be the guinea pig.

PS: This should save apple a ton of cash

The update solved some other problems too here... finally i got a good working and fast macbook! (whoh! damn it's fast now)

ablatt

Oct 27, 2006, 08:17 AM

Well I'm not a MAC expert by any means but here's a thought.

I've built many PCs and none of the heatsinks that ship from AMD or Intel have had heat sensors or wires on them. The only wires are for monitoring the RPM of the fan which is attached to the top of the heatsink.

The CPU has its own temperature monitoring and doesn't depend on the heatsink.

Maybe the thermal sensors on the heatsink are not needed completely or at all? The initial solution, before new firmware was available, was to simply replace the heatsink, but now they can safely ignore the short?

bill4588

Oct 27, 2006, 08:34 AM

this update as worked great for me so far! I was having random shutdowns at least 5 times a day and I haven't had one since last night. I also notice that my macbook is cooler (around 35 degrees C), and that's with about 6 programs open. Normally it would be around 60....and after hearing other people say that the built-in speakers are louder, it seems like mine are too....but that's probably all in my head.

MIDI_EVIL

Oct 27, 2006, 08:53 AM

My girlfriends MacBook, runs at 15 degrees C pretty much all the time.

Here is a screen shot,

Rich.

skunk

Oct 27, 2006, 08:59 AM

Mine runs at 18-23C. 40C under heavy load. And that's pre-firmware.

aristobrat

Oct 27, 2006, 09:09 AM

My girlfriends MacBook, runs at 15 degrees C pretty much all the time.

Here is a screen shot,

Rich.
FWIW, 15C = 59F. I've never heard of a processor running that low. Maybe it does, but that sounds really really odd.

EdRossignol

Oct 27, 2006, 09:53 AM

Hi Guys, i was looking at your cpu temps for your mac books, I have a 12" 1.5ghz Powerbook G4 with 1.25GB RAM, and i get higher CPU temps than you lot, is my G4 faulty... it lasted me nearly 2 years, got passed the faulty battery lark, this is using a new battery apple sent me...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ed_rossignol/untitled.jpg

all my readings are in *C...
i am on max performance, and running photoshop, handbrake, and watching an mp4 using mplayer:D

Still saving up for my C2D MBP :D should get it in a month :p

~Ed~

sixth

Oct 27, 2006, 10:29 AM

Think we need to install this on the new MBP's (C2D)?

hagjohn

Oct 27, 2006, 10:43 AM

I'm doing mail and browsing the web and I'm down to 22C right now. Room is a bit cool at work though. Last night it was up to about 54C from a normal of about 34C.

Although I never had a RSS, I did apply the update.
I'm curious about those temps you are mentioning though.

I have CoreDuoTemp installed and it shows 57C without doing anything fancy! Just Mail.app and Safari are open and I haven't done any serious work in the meantime.

34C seems kinda low :/

dwsolberg

Oct 27, 2006, 10:53 AM

Don't believe things that are obviously false just because a computers says it. A computer's processor does not run at 59 degrees F after any amount of use, except maybe if you're outside in Siberia. Even if the temperature in the room is just 59 degrees, the processor is going to generate some heat. If the normal amount of heat is very roughly about 50-60 degrees F above room temperature, then, obviously, the temperature monitor you're using is recording incorrect data. One of the worst things about computers is that they seem to be so sure of themselves!

Speaking of such things, I had a especially dull person insist that the outside temperature was about 90 degrees when it was actually about 70 because he saw it on his computer screen (we're in Minneapolis, MN, and I assume he had set his weather page to Minneapolis, Kansas). I almost got into an argument with him, but decided to let it go.

thequicksilver

Oct 27, 2006, 10:55 AM

I had a pretty annoying RSS on my week 30 white 1.83 MacBook. Typically it would go for 7-8 hours before shutting down, at which point I'd leave it to cool for half an hour or so before restarting the cycle. I am a student and simply cannot do without my laptop for a week to get the heatsink replaced, so I was simply living with it.

Keenly applied the firmware update today and it was running OK, until this. First one on the MacBook. Really hope this is a one-off.

jhande

Oct 27, 2006, 10:59 AM

OK, this is getting a bit..... I take back what I said earlier in the thread about CoreDuoTemp matching FanControl's temp readings.

FanControl says 55C, CoreDuoTemp says 37C. Firmware is 1.1.

Does anyone really know what the two are _actually_ measuring? I mean, the differential makes sense if, for example, CoreDuoTemp is measuring the chips temperature, while FanControl is measuring the heatsink.... but does anyone have hard facts what's actually being measured??? :(

Is there a technical document that shows which sensors are installed in the MB? I can't find any, but maybe someone else has a clue.

starlabs

Oct 27, 2006, 11:34 AM

There's another temperature monitoring utility, called appropriately enough, Temperature Monitor. I switched to it after CoreDuoTemp was flaking out on me. So far, it's given me pretty reliable readings. Maybe you guys should try that.

I'm pretty sure readings of 15C-19C are incorrect. I've NEVER seen or heard of modern laptop/desktop CPUs running that cool.

The lowest readings I've gotten on my laptop, from memory, would be low to mid 40s. It usually idles at mid-50s.

With regards to "pushing the machine = shutdown"... that's only somewhat true. Making both cores 100% cpu usage has been a way to trigger the random shutdown, but that doesn't make it the cause. I've had plenty of situations where my MacBook was idling and just turned itself off...

dukebound85

Oct 27, 2006, 11:38 AM

My girlfriends MacBook, runs at 15 degrees C pretty much all the time.

Here is a screen shot,

Rich.

well thats wrong pure and simple. any type of circuit WILL generate heat unless it is a thermoelectric cooler which this isn't

also about the update, i just got a box like 3 days ago to return it to apple for repair of heat sink. I have had only 2 days since July that the thing has rsd'd on me. The first mabe 1.5weeks ago, being only 2 shutdowns before being stable and the next a week later being 6.

would you guys reccomend still sending it in for repair? i need my computer for work and school but also need it to be dependable. any suggestions?
oh and does anyone know hoe soon you have to mail in your computer after you receive the box?

also i found out there is an apple store in denver(close to where i live). could they replace it there?

thanks for taking the time to read my questions

Minyall

Oct 27, 2006, 12:02 PM

Hi

I don't post here much but I'm always interested in people's opinions on different aspects of the Mac world. I looked on here to see the general consensus concerning the SMC update and after reading everyone's thoughts concerning it I was wondering if it is just a revision of the original SMC update, and that in fact the old SMC update was the cause of RSD?

When I saw the first SMC update available I avoided it because some people found that if they didn't have fan problems before they suddenly did after the fix. I'm wondering, has anyone who didn't install the first SMC update had RSD?

I didn't install it and I haven't had these problems, so I'm thinking that maybe the RSD was in fact a firmware problem rather than a hardware one and now they've released this new firmware to rectify their fault.

Just a thought..

dmelgar

Oct 27, 2006, 12:19 PM

I have my Macbook since July and have never experienced a random shutdown.

My Lenovo laptop has no known hardware defect and thanks to wonderful software from Microsoft I do experience random shutdowns, lockups, bluescreens, you name it.

Given the choice between a Windows box guaranteed to crash, get infected and worm its way around the network, I'd much rather get a Macbook with a pretty stable OS and generally wonderful machine.

haleyvan

Oct 27, 2006, 12:54 PM

anyone experiencing random shut downs after the firmware update?

i just got my macbook back yesterday after waiting for over a month for them to replace the heatsink and then the topcase because nothing worked after the replacement.

i didn't realize that this update was out, and when i first tried to update, the computer wouldn't get past the grey screen then the vertical lines came back. i was about to throw it out the window. i reset the pram and it still wouldnt work.

i then reinstalled the update and so far it is working fine...i think what happened was i interrupted the update the first time. woops.

anyways, i would love to know how everyone's computer is doing now. anybody?

slb

Oct 27, 2006, 01:10 PM

I'm definitely staying away from this update for now. Something about it actually just kind of scares me. It helps that my week 21 MacBook has only had the mooing issue and nothing else (so far). That issue has gone away with SMC Firmware Update 1.0, and I've had a great laptop ever since.

I feel rather lucky. :)

I don't get people who avoid important updates. I'd install it just to avoid future problems from forming. My MacBook runs fine with the update, and the fans are coming on less often as well which is appreciated.

Isn't everyone assuming here that the root problem is a heatsink issue? Has Apple ever announced that it was? Perhaps it isn't at all, or that's only part of the equation, and it is in fact an SMC control problem. There's a lot of FUD here - people saying they've had extra screws drilled in their MacBooks which is total BS.

I wouldn't try second-guessing Apple engineers. If they've released an update recommended to make the MacBook more reliable, I say use it.

Absolutely. I'm a bit surprised at all the misinformation (nobody is drilling a friggin' screw in your MacBooks, people).

skunk

Oct 27, 2006, 01:25 PM

I don't get people who avoid important updates.Perhaps you've never been burned by one. I have. There's nothing worse than immediately downloading an update, then suddenly finding that a whole lot of things are broken that worked perfectly well before. Then you go to Macfixit and find reams of posts from other people in the same boat. Being wary of Rev A models doesn't only apply to hardware...

MrCrowbar

Oct 27, 2006, 01:27 PM

I installed Core Duo Temp bofore I updated my Macbook firmware. I got a logic board and heastsink replancement (and a lot more apparently... the list is pretty long, looks like they changed everything except RAM and HDD). Core Duo temp reported 10*C core temperature (90 % CPU at 2 GHz). It used to be in the 60s before that... After the firmwareupgrade the report was correct again (60*C).

PS: I have a screw in the middle of the bottom. Dunno if it has always been there. It could inded have been addd to hold the new (different) logic board and the heatsink in place so both won't touch ach other. But it doesn't look like it was added afterwards... is there anyon who didn't get his macbook repaired yet have this screw too? It's exactly in the centre of the shell on the bottom of the case. Just beeing curious. :-)

MacIke

Oct 27, 2006, 01:41 PM

My MacBook was purchased in the first month. I did not have any random shutdown problems until the first SMC update.

Then I started getting random shut downs. All the %#(*&$#*($&^& time.

I took mine to Apple Store in MN, Southdale, and they fixed the heat sink within 90 minutes. No more random shutdowns.

The Genesis Bar dude went to console and looked for 2 items. They showed up. They took the MacBook. Fixed it and called me in 90 minutes.

My MacBook runs at 63c on a regular basis. I do have 2G ram and run 18 to 21 programs at once. I also have a cool pad beneath the kind with a fan beneath my MacBook that runs all the time.

jobberwacky

Oct 27, 2006, 01:52 PM

i just got my macbook back yesterday after waiting for over a month for them to replace the heatsink
Is this all the service they offered you? I contacted Apple when the RSS started to become a problem and was told that I could go to a certified Apple repair centre of choice.

I phoned one up who had already dealt with a former TIBook of mine and they said they would order the heatsink and get back to me when it arrives. My MacBook then got a date with the repair man the next day and the morning after I could go and collect it (new screw not included).

What I do recommend to everyone, is that they create a guest account WITH admin rights before they hand in the computer, so that the guys can play around with sleep settings and have a look at the system log.

Andreas

jobberwacky

Oct 27, 2006, 01:58 PM

Perhaps you've never been burned by one. I have.
The classic was of course iTunes 2.1, which sent one's personal files to /dev/null. Yes, all of them. And no, the Apple-paid recovery attempt wasn't successful.

Yes, I did have an update of the night before, but not of research data of that day.

slb

Oct 27, 2006, 03:16 PM

PS: I have a screw in the middle of the bottom. Dunno if it has always been there. It could inded have been addd to hold the new (different) logic board and the heatsink in place so both won't touch ach other. But it doesn't look like it was added afterwards... is there anyon who didn't get his macbook repaired yet have this screw too? It's exactly in the centre of the shell on the bottom of the case. Just beeing curious. :-)

Yes, the screw has always been there. Pictures were posted earlier. They're not sitting in the back of the Apple Store with power drills driving screws into the bottoms of your MacBooks...

menziep

Oct 27, 2006, 03:39 PM

Good for MB owners

MrCrowbar

Oct 27, 2006, 03:40 PM

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ed_rossignol/untitled.jpg

~Ed~

I wish I had this many sensor readings. All I get is the themperature in once CPU core. :-(
Is there any kenel extention to install so I can get the hard drive temp (more important to me than the cpu) and the other stuff? Or the fan readings?

I have a stock black Macbook with some more RAM (see sig). PLease PM me if you know something for getting all the sensor readings.

dsnort

Oct 27, 2006, 03:44 PM

I don't use the iStat widget, I use the intel core duo temp widget. Since I installed the firmware update last night, it doesn't seem to work anymore. Odd.

Fiveos22

Oct 27, 2006, 03:47 PM

Absolutely. I'm a bit surprised at all the misinformation (nobody is drilling a friggin' screw in your MacBooks, people).

Is that the verdict on the screw issue?

I had my Blackbook in twice and the second time they replaced the heatsink (no problems since) but other than a slightly warped battery, I have not noticed anyother cosmetic changes.

If people are getting screwed they should post pictures (no pun intended). ;)

furthur

Oct 27, 2006, 03:53 PM

Is it likely that this update will eliminate the need to use the smcfancontrol app that so many have recommended to combat the RSS? Or would you continue to use it as well???

JAT

Oct 27, 2006, 03:57 PM

Is that the verdict on the screw issue?

Yes, it is. The screw has always been there. I will say that ours is no longer flush like it was at first. Brushing your hand over it means you feel the screw whereas in May we could not. So, the screw may be more noticeable if this is true for others, as well. I could see it being very annoying for some.

starlabs

Oct 27, 2006, 03:57 PM

Let's put this to sleep (no pun intended)... my MacBook has a screw in the middle since day one and has never been in service. It's a week 26 MacBook.

pmbooks

Oct 27, 2006, 04:31 PM

Anybody have a sense of whether this update will work for the MBP's? And if not, why Apple decided to ignore the exact same issue on their pro line?

dukebound85

Oct 27, 2006, 04:36 PM

Anybody have a sense of whether this update will work for the MBP's? And if not, why Apple decided to ignore the exact same issue on their pro line?

i dont remember this being an issue with the pros????

keyepitts

Oct 27, 2006, 04:40 PM

I just installed the update and coreduotemp & Istat now say my temps are running in the mid 50's; before update they said 20's(which I didn't believe). Never had the RSD problem; fans don't seem any louder/more active than before the update.

riko

Oct 27, 2006, 05:24 PM

Yes, it is. The screw has always been there. I will say that ours is no longer flush like it was at first. Brushing your hand over it means you feel the screw whereas in May we could not. So, the screw may be more noticeable if this is true for others, as well. I could see it being very annoying for some.

Just got my mabook back from getting its optical drive replaced and the service centre have also replaced the heat sink (i never mentioned RSS at all so not sure why they did it). I have noticed the central screw is no longer flush now. not a huge problem but does this mean the new heatsink causes the screw to stick out a bit?

riko

aristobrat

Oct 27, 2006, 05:31 PM

Isn't everyone assuming here that the root problem is a heatsink issue? Has Apple ever announced that it was?
Officially, no.

If you can believe this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2891746#post2891746), then yes, it was announced to Apple's service providers. These pictures (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99055354@N00/271937310/in/photostream/) show the difference between designs of the two heatsinks.

EasyB

Oct 27, 2006, 05:40 PM

Think you're imagining it. Have updated my MB and i still can't hear the fan in normal usage. I expect it will kick in at some time when it decides things are getting a bit hot.

The way I was able to make my fans kick in was to run the rss tester from http://www.macbookrandomshutdown.com/
Download and run the tester and it maxes out CPU cycles, before my mac would just shut off within 1-2 sec. Now the fans come on.

The rss tester:
http://www.macbookrandomshutdown.com/utils/macbookrss.dmg

-B

SamIchi

Oct 27, 2006, 06:34 PM

I had no problems before update, and no problems now. I don't see a change in the temp.

I'm grateful that I haven't had any problems with my MB, although I did have a couple kernel panics.

YoNeX

Oct 27, 2006, 07:37 PM

Good: Notebook is only 30° C
Bad: Fan blasting @ 6KRPM (really unnecessary, can't even use this in class without disturbing the rest of the people in there)

aristobrat

Oct 27, 2006, 07:45 PM

Good: Notebook is only 30° C
Bad: Fan blasting @ 6KRPM (really unnecessary, can't even use this in class without disturbing the rest of the people in there)
Your fans always blast at 6Krpm? That doesn't sound right. Have you tried resetting the PRAM?

MrCrowbar

Oct 27, 2006, 08:05 PM

Core Duo Temp reports 60°C (=140°F = 333K) constantly. Even during the stress test when I heard the fans all the time, still exactly the same temperature. Maybe someone else is having this.

MrCrowbar

Oct 27, 2006, 08:10 PM

Good: Notebook is only 30° C
Bad: Fan blasting @ 6KRPM (really unnecessary, can't even use this in class without disturbing the rest of the people in there)

HOw do you know your fan speed? I wanna see those too...

YoNeX

Oct 27, 2006, 08:21 PM

See below. And no, I didn't use smcFanControl to set it to 6K. Can't even use it to lower the speed.

floatingspirit

Oct 27, 2006, 08:34 PM

After applying the update, it seems like it's running cooler. I'm getting 53-54C now, when normally it's 58-59.

My fan is running ALOT, as in most of the time now whereas before it only came on when it really was apparent that the laptop was getting hot on the bottom...hmmm:confused:

floatingspirit

Oct 27, 2006, 08:47 PM

i have a week 26 white 2.0 MB. it has a screw on the bottom in the dead center. it was never serviced.

Dunno what week it is, but I got it in October. I got screwed too, right in the middle right out of the box. Hasn't been serviced. As I said though, it was nice and quiet before the firmware update...

Can anyone show a pic of a MB without the center screw? lol

CHINAdeals

Oct 28, 2006, 01:29 AM

japanime

Oct 28, 2006, 02:23 AM

'fixed' for me.

ironically the DAY they released the update.my macbook started shutting down intermittingly..

instaleld it..works fine so far.as for the fans..they still go 'nuts' when i run a few videos on youtube..is THAT normal?

like they get pretty loud ugh

The loud fan ISN'T normal, and it's something I've been fighting about with Apple ever since I bought this POS machine a day after they were released. I'm on my second one now (the first one was replaced because it was broken right out of the box), and this one sounds like a jet airplane getting ready for take off, with the turbines winding up and down.

What particularly makes me upset is that we've got two MacBooks in my family, mine and my wife's, and hers is completely silent. When the fan does kick in on her machine, it makes a nice "whoosh" sound of air being pushed, and nothing else. Mine make this whiney noise coming from the fan itself, so loud you can't even heard the "whoosh" of air being moved.

My MacBook has already been in AppleCare once for a fan replacement, as well as the heat-sink replacement. I had hoped this new firmware would slow the darned fan down, but nope--it's still buzzing away like an electric razor.

I've owned five Apple laptops prior to this one (dating back to a PowerBook 520), and this MacBook is by far the worst one of the bunch. Worse even than my "flaming" PowerBook 5300 (which still works and doesn't make a peep).

nomad01

Oct 28, 2006, 06:08 AM

I'm pretty sure readings of 15C-19C are incorrect. I've NEVER seen or heard of modern laptop/desktop CPUs running that cool.

I'm sure you're correct but I'm confused as to what results to believe.

I'm now using istat Pro, Temperature Monitor and Core2Duotemp. All are saying the same thing.

See the screen grab below.

If I put the machine under stress it does go up to 50 or 60 degrees but generally, it's saying around 21 when idle.

MalcolmJID

Oct 28, 2006, 07:48 AM

I'm sure you're correct but I'm confused as to what results to believe.

I'm now using istat Pro, Temperature Monitor and Core2Duotemp. All are saying the same thing.

See the screen grab below.

If I put the machine under stress it does go up to 50 or 60 degrees but generally, it's saying around 21 when idle.

Mine used to get stuck at low temperatures like that. It's a glitch in the CPU's measuring stuff.

Download the latest version of smcFanControl. It has a temperature reading, but uses a sensor on the logic board rather than the one on/in the CPU. I get a more accurate temperature now. With my minimum fan speed at 2500rpm, I get idle of around 46ºC. and gets up to about 77/78ºC when pushed, but of the course the fan kicks in then and keeps it in check.

I'm also curious about some people likening the fan in the MB to a jet engine. As mine spins up, i can hear a faint whine that sounds a bit like a jet engine, but as it gets faster, all I hear is the 'woosh' of air.:confused:

sgd88

Oct 28, 2006, 11:29 AM

Damn!

I took mine to get repaired for this issue a week ago. The repair shop are very slow and I will only get it back on Tuesday this week. And by the sounds of it this update could have solved the job.

Grrrr...

Croatian

Oct 28, 2006, 11:44 AM

aristobrat

Oct 28, 2006, 11:46 AM

how do i know if the heat sink on my MacBooks have been replaces or not, they were both costom orderd MBs and i did wait 1 month to get them from apple website
I don't think Apple changed their assembly line until week 35. If the serial number of your Mac is less than 4H635, then I don't think it has the new heatsink.

YoNeX

Oct 28, 2006, 11:57 AM

MrCrowbar

Oct 28, 2006, 11:58 AM

I got 2 MacBooks for my business and i just got them shipped to me the other day, i installed the SMC Firmware update and tested the machine under the core-duo test for 45 minutes and nothing.

I did notice the fan was going like a jet engine and was waitin for the macbook to lunch off the desk but that never happend

when checked the temp before the test it was 40 C ... during the test it was 78 C ... after the test it went down to 56 C and it stayed like that for 45 minutes on idel before it went down to 45 C

how do i know if the heat sink on my MacBooks have been replaces or not, they were both costom orderd MBs and i did wait 1 month to get them from apple website

Your Macbooks are perfectly fine. Basically the fan control does the following:
1. Keep the CPU below a certain temperature (It's 57°C or something, don't
know with the new firmware)
2. Minimum fan speed is 1500 rpm (even at 2500 rpm, you don't hear the fans, the hard drive spin and CPU noise are still louder)

So in your case the Macbook cooled down below the threshold after the test. Thenthe fans on low speed slowly cooled it down. Try out SMCFANCONTROL and play around with the slider. If you put the fans to max speed when the macbook is idling, the temperature should go below 50°C within a few seconds. Beliece it or not, the room temperature ant the heat conductivity factor of the surface your macbooks are on (wood = bad, cold metal = good) are a big factor. Lift the hinge of the Macbook up with a pack of smokes if you want good air flow :-)

Croatian

Oct 28, 2006, 12:04 PM

I don't think Apple changed their assembly line until week 35. If the serial number of your Mac is less than WH8635, then I don't think it has the new heatsink.

how do i know witch week is my macbook
also the serial number is 4H640203Uxx

so i take it it is less then WH but my doesn't even start with WH anywhere in the serial number line

MrCrowbar

Oct 28, 2006, 12:24 PM

Reset PRAM, apparently that broke CoreDuoTemp sensor because mine is reading 12°C, iStatPro is reading 12° C as well, but smcFanControl is reading 72° C. Week 27 MacBook by the way. So my suggestion is, if your MacBook has no issues or you are fine with how it is running right now, DO NOT UPGRADE THE FIRMWARE.

My Macbook also has false CPU Temp readings with all apps running Speedit. That is CoreDuoTemp, iStat widgets etc...
smcFanControl uses a different sensor. My guess is the new firmware somehow disables the CPU core sensors (there is one in every core) and uses the other one instead. So the values SpeeIt gets refresh only every time you reboot.

MrCrowbar

Oct 28, 2006, 12:28 PM

Here's my roommate's macbook. Hasn't been serviced yet, you can tell by the screws.
just kidding

Croatian

Oct 28, 2006, 12:36 PM

Here's my roommate's macbook. Hasn't been serviced yet, you can tell by the screws.
just kidding

so if u have 3 screws, that means it was serviced

my 2 macbook for business came out of the box with 3 screws so would that indicate that they serviced that macbooks before they were shipped to me

wyrmintheapple

Oct 28, 2006, 01:20 PM

so if u have 3 screws, that means it was serviced

my 2 macbook for business came out of the box with 3 screws so would that indicate that they serviced that macbooks before they were shipped to me

No. It has been established already that all the MacBooks have 3 screws. Mine was one of the first to arrive in the UK and It has 3 screws. The pic you just saw is actually from page 6, posted to show how it had 3 screws. This is a photoshop job.

aristobrat

Oct 28, 2006, 01:40 PM

how do i know witch week is my macbook
also the serial number is 4H640203Uxx

so i take it it is less then WH but my doesn't even start with WH anywhere in the serial number line
I totally screwed up on my last post about this -- I apologize (and edited it).

4H635 is when I think Apple made the change based on this ThinkSecret post:
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0908macmini.html

If you have a 4H640, then I think you have a week 40 and should be OK. Someone should correct me if I'm wrong reading your serial#. ;)

haleyvan

Oct 28, 2006, 02:07 PM

I think the original poster was talking about the speaker volume, and I happen to agree - I think my speaker volume is slightly louder.

volume is definitely louder. it was actually one of the first things i noticed with this update because when i first got my macbook i was disappointed in the maximum volume. my heat sink was replaced also. it has been 24 hours and i've been on my computer a considerable amount...no problems so far.

tartanmac

Oct 28, 2006, 05:45 PM

MrCrowbar

Oct 28, 2006, 07:03 PM

japanime

Oct 28, 2006, 07:38 PM

LOL. YOu fell fgor it. Awesome :D

I didn't fall for it.

And you're an idiot.

Seriously, these forums are so Mac users can help one another. What kind of little person gets joy out of posting false information that could cause another person grief or concern?

vega07

Oct 28, 2006, 08:33 PM

I don't really notice a louder volume. I think apple can still improve on the volume.

have you guys realize how bad the volume controls are on the macbook? when the volume is at half, basically nothing is audible. the first 5-6 bars on the volume control are absolutely garbage (except when headphones are plugged in).

MrCrowbar

Oct 28, 2006, 09:53 PM

I didn't fall for it.

And you're an idiot.

Seriously, these forums are so Mac users can help one another. What kind of little person gets joy out of posting false information that could cause another person grief or concern?

Didn't you see the white 'just kidding' above the picture?
Once I started the rumor of the black Macbook actually beeing made of aluminum with some black vinyl on it (thus the $150 premium). A week later, I heard from someone totally messing up his Macbook trying to remove 'the black layer' on his brand new Macbook with a cutter. I laughed my ass of for a week. Totally worth it. :D

dsnort

Oct 28, 2006, 10:02 PM

What an a**.

Didn't you see the white 'just kidding' above the picture?
Once I started the rumor of the black Macbook actually beeing made of aluminum with some black vinyl on it (thus the $150 premium). A week later, I heard from someone totally messing up his Macbook trying to remove 'the black layer' on his brand new Macbook with a cutter. I laughed my ass of for a week. Totally worth it. :D

So convincing someone to destroy their expensive computer is your idea of a goodtime? What a jerk!

Timpdude

Oct 28, 2006, 10:13 PM

Well.. I called AppleCare and they sent me a box.. The same time the lady told me to update to the new 1.1 Firmware and see if there would be a difference. She said that she would in fact send the box anyway and if the FMC didn't fix it then I needed to ship in.

My MacBook worked great until one day it crashed. AppleCare said it replaced a harddrive when I got it back. That evening... that VERY evening RSS started. What a crock. Never before, but after apple touches it it starts this garbage.

I am writing a dissertation. I am writing a dissertation that needs my portability of a laptop to be successful because of the amount of travel involved in gathering data.

What am I to do??? Well.. I updated the Firmware today. I upgraded everything that Software update had me do and then I put the new firmware on there.. *** Forgot to say that currently I am running at 46deg C. That seems pretty good. The bottom of the computer I don't think that you could cook eggs on like you could have a few weeks ago. something must be working.

So far so good. I have a blank box that I hope that I don't have to send to Apple as my dissertation is on it : ) (don't worry.. i have other copies) Maybe no more RSS this weekend and I will not put my computer in the box. We will see want we?!?!

Hmm.. Saw a good Dell price today.. thinking maybe I should buy one for just my dissertation as it could be more reliable than my current setup.

thoughts?

St. Germain

Oct 28, 2006, 10:24 PM

Had RSS.
Installed the firmware.
No longer have RSS.

slb

Oct 28, 2006, 11:42 PM

Reset PRAM, apparently that broke CoreDuoTemp sensor because mine is reading 12°C, iStatPro is reading 12° C as well, but smcFanControl is reading 72° C. Week 27 MacBook by the way. So my suggestion is, if your MacBook has no issues or you are fine with how it is running right now, DO NOT UPGRADE THE FIRMWARE.

Just become some hacky software to read chip temperatures broke doesn't mean you shouldn't install an important firmware update.

Didn't you see the white 'just kidding' above the picture?
Once I started the rumor of the black Macbook actually beeing made of aluminum with some black vinyl on it (thus the $150 premium). A week later, I heard from someone totally messing up his Macbook trying to remove 'the black layer' on his brand new Macbook with a cutter. I laughed my ass of for a week. Totally worth it. :D

Duuude, you're soooo cool (and quite a fibber).

YoNeX

Oct 29, 2006, 01:06 AM

Just become some hacky software to read chip temperatures broke doesn't mean you shouldn't install an important firmware update.

Duuude, you're soooo cool (and quite a fibber).

If you bother to read the previous stuff, you would have found out that its not the fact its reading the temps wrong, I could care less, its just the fact that my fans are being blasted @ 6K RPM on idle. I personally don't mind the heat, and would gladly sacrafice some silence for heat.

And as a general rule, if stuff is working fine, don't mess with it, because you are asking for trouble.

james100

Oct 29, 2006, 01:36 AM

In case this of use to anyone, I have a week 23 2.0Ghz macbook which was demonstrating no random shutdowns or any other problems prior to the 1.1 update. After the update, my system idle temperature has dropped by about 10 degrees C, from ~50-52 degrees to ~40-44. Nothing has appeared to have broken and temperatures under max load remain unchanged at around 73-76 degrees.

An interesting change appears after the machine has run at full load. The fans now run until the CPU temp has scaled back to the low 40s, whereas before the update they stopped running at full tilt once the CPU temp had reached around 50 degrees.

slb

Oct 29, 2006, 01:04 AM

And as a general rule, if stuff is working fine, don't mess with it, because you are asking for trouble.

I guess my position is that the temperature monitoring system is clearly not working fine in MacBooks, which they claim is resolved by this update. If Apple wants me to update my SMC firmware regardless of whether or not I'm having problems, I'm going to trust their engineers that this is an important update to install for every MacBook owner to avoid potential future issues.

mrweirdo

Oct 29, 2006, 01:31 AM

Just my luck I was gona take my macbook in for RSD tomorrow to get the heatsink replaced and now they come out with this fix. There is defiantly something wrong with the hardware though(i believe the heatsink has burned through some of the wires) besides the random shutdown when my system is at idle my fans will kick in suddenly at full speed then run for about a minute that fast or sometimes cut out completely then start up again. Something that it never did before rsd developed.

I bet if i take it in tomorrow they will just tell me to apply this update which does nothing to solve the damage that has already been done to my macbook. My guess this is a fix apple has done to get them out of the 1 year warranty period were the macbook will then develop further hardware problems. Then you will have to pay out of pocket to get it fixed unless you buy apple care. Also this temporary patch helps them sell more apple care subscriptions.

All i can say is i better not have hardware issues after my year is up or I'm done with apple :(

MacKarl

Oct 29, 2006, 03:22 AM

I can't see any differences in temperature, voltage or frequency after the SMC update. I use the coolbook utility to monitor this (http://www.coolbook.se.

jagolden

Oct 29, 2006, 07:38 PM

the key issue in my case was that my macbook couldn't go to sleep or be closed, everytime it woke up, it wouldn't last longer than 3 seconds and then shut down and all of the other known symptoms.

I ran the firmware upgrade and it works fine now, it's not hot or anything and the fans seem to be working at a normal pace.

Well, I am grateful for the fact that I don't have to turn in the mac for 5 days or more for servicing... I make a living out of this thingy...:D

I second instadan. MacBook was working fine until the last Apple update, then started RSS.
After the new update it's fine. Running same temp a previously and fans also working as previously. Happy (for now).

williamsonrg

Oct 29, 2006, 08:54 PM

Does your screw stick out a little bit or is it leveled with the plastic?

It's level in the plastic, and dead center, so it's really hardly noticeable. Not sure why they had to do that though, you'd think they could fasten it the same way they do the old heatsink. Of course, I don't know much about heatsink placement and MB mobo's, so I should just keep my mouth shut I guess.

cbass46

Oct 30, 2006, 12:46 AM

I started experiencing shutdowns a couple of weeks ago. I downloaded the firmware update and it only seemed to make the problem worse. I had to hold down the power button to turn it back on, and then the computer would stay on for a couple of minutes tops. I could barely keep it alive to make an appointment online at the local Genius Bar.

When I brought it in, they immediately said they would replace the heatsink and change the top panel (discoloration issues). They got the job done in 24 hours, as they said they would.

So far, no problems whatsoever. Even though this problem was driving me crazy, I'm quite happy with the way Apple took care of my computer once I brought it in.

BTW, I can't get a temp reading on my iStat Nano widget, any suggestions on how to fix that? Also, what is a normal temp. range?

tmp0404

Oct 30, 2006, 10:54 AM

So, I had the RSS issue on 10/26, it was the first time, I was installing a Linux OS using Parallels, and off went the machine. I've read so much about this matter that I called Applecare, and after a few minutes on the phone, the proposed resolution was to send it in. The box arrived 10/27, and as of today 10/30 and according to my repair status online, Apple has the PC and it is being worked on.

I find it strange that Apple didn't want me to try the firmware upgrade on 10/26, but it could have been a timing issue related to when the firmware was released. I'll post again when I get the Macbook back. BTW, I did tell Apple that it was in pristine condition, and I expect it to be the same when it is returned.

tmp0404

Oct 31, 2006, 08:25 AM

So, on Halloween my Macbook was returned to me, not bad considering it was picked up on 10/27. Apple replaced the bezel, heat sink and a few other parts on the white Macbook. They did not perform the most recent firmware upgrade, so I just did. Time will tell, but I'm most pleased with the rapid turn around time, and I must say the Macbook came back in pristine condition.

Well done Apple, I hope.

Time Clock

Oct 31, 2006, 12:26 PM

starlabs

Oct 31, 2006, 12:32 PM

You've got nothing to lose - as it is, it's pretty much useless - unless you enjoy having your MacBook turn off at the most inopportune times.

Do this: schedule an appt with your local Apple store Genius Bar for later today or tomorrow. Update your firmware. If it happens to shutdown while updating your firmware, or you brick it somehow, bring it to your appointment and tell them what happened.

If it works, cancel the appointment.

BTW, since the update came out my MacBook has been running 100% fine.

EasyB

Oct 31, 2006, 06:17 PM

This firmware update seems like a good thing, but I'm just afraid of the computer shutting down even though it supposedly ignores temp readings. I tried running the hardware diagnostic, and guess what. The MacBook still shut down- multiple times while trying to run the test. I was unable to get the diagnostic to run at all. Should I just call Apple up and start demanding answers and taking no prisoners? Or should I be more sly about it? I'm just starting to get pissed off at what I thought was a great computer company.

Just do it, have some faith. It is the best update I ever did. My mac does not shut down anymore and it works better. And the firmware update only takes a few seconds, i too was worried about it shutting down during the firmware update, but do you think apple would put out a update like that. Could you imagine the mess if half of the macbooks died during the update and would not boot anymore? They would not take that chance.

So just do it, it will work for you, and maybe restore some faith in apple.

-B

MacinDoc

Nov 1, 2006, 12:34 AM

MacinDoc

Nov 1, 2006, 12:40 AM

Switched to macs back in 2001 and while I love the OS I have had a continuous stream of hardware problems with all apple products I have bought:

iBook G3: logic board died and replaced 3 times

iMac G5: CPU got so hot the machine almost melted! So far I have had the logic board replaced 3 times.

MacBook: Random shutdown syndrome, faulty mouse and track pad, palm rest discoloration. Currently in for repair again!

iPod: hard disk and battery both died

EDIT: and don't get me started about the abomination that is the so called mighty mouse. The thing barely lasted a week!

Apple have really got to get there quality control sorted out. So what if the OS is great if the continual hardware faults mean you can't actually use the damn thing!

One cheesed off mac user.
Your experience is clearly not representative. My family and I have had 9 Macs, and no hardware problems ever. And large surveys, including those by PC Magazine and Consumer Reports, have shown that Apple desktops require significantly fewer repairs than any other brand out there.

Either you are trolling, or you are the most unlucky Mac user I have ever heard of...

gnasher729

Nov 1, 2006, 07:47 AM

Yeap, they drilled a hole in the center of the macbook and added a screw.

Mine had a screw there when it was brand new.

gnasher729

Nov 1, 2006, 07:57 AM

FWIW, 15C = 59F. I've never heard of a processor running that low. Maybe it does, but that sounds really really odd.

The Macbook is never cooler than its environment. So maybe outside in the winter. Just curious if you can use the keyboard while wearing gloves.

Over Achiever

Nov 1, 2006, 10:56 AM

Hmm, after updating and using it for a few days I have observed that the fan runs much more often than it used to, simple processes that kick the processor usage to 100% for a few seconds will cause the fans to spin ... while I like the prevention of RSS, I have not experienced it, and now my macbook tends to be louder than usual which is a little frustrating at the library. I have not had much of a heat issue with this laptop before (monitored the temperature) so this is a bit annoying.

But something I can live with.

Gasu E.

Nov 1, 2006, 11:29 AM

Well my MB was bought the day they were announced - my local Apple store didn't have them on display yet :) and mine hasn't had the shutdown issue.

I thought this pic Engadget posted is pretty funny:
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/10/macbook-shutdown-fix.jpg

Apple marketing calls this feature "Thermal Shuffle"

starlabs

Nov 1, 2006, 12:08 PM

Your experience is clearly not representative. My family and I have had 9 Macs, and no hardware problems ever. And large surveys, including those by PC Magazine and Consumer Reports, have shown that Apple desktops require significantly fewer repairs than any other brand out there.

Either you are trolling, or you are the most unlucky Mac user I have ever heard of...

Maybe your experience is not representative? Hmm?

My MacBook has had the RSS issue, as well as the mushy crap trackpad button.
My 1st gen iPod had the battery issue.
My girlfriend's iBook (which I had bought for her) had the "infamous" logic board issue - which because it manifested itself right after the extended warranty period, bricked her laptop. She's lucky she managed to get a hand-me down laptop replacement from work.
My friend's MacBook (bought a month ago) also had the RSS issue, which he had sent in for repair, and which seems to have been fixed.
Another friend has had to replace her 5G video ipod TWICE; she's on her third.

So maybe me and my friends are unlucky too, eh? :rolleyes:

aristobrat

Nov 1, 2006, 01:01 PM

So maybe me and my friends are unlucky too, eh? :rolleyes:
Statistically, using the sources that MacInDoc cited in his quote, yes.

altogether

Nov 3, 2006, 03:57 AM

It was all smooth sailing til tonight and my Macbook had a random shut down. I've had the firmware upgrade since the day it came out. I noticed this time I couldn't just try to power back up by pressing the power button. I had to either take out the battery and put it back in or plug it up to external power for atleast the start up.

Bleh, I was so relived that I wouldn't have to send it in with the firmware thingy, so much for that. :(

So everyone elses are doing fine?