World of Warcraft: Blood Elves changed because they were too "feminine"

[gekko513]

One of the things that stinks about World of Warcraft is that the male of all the races except trolls and undead look like they're body builders on steroids. Well actually they're even more bulky than real world body builders on steroids can ever hope to be.

The Blood Elf race that was announced for the upcoming expansion seemed to give hope to those of us who wanted to play a more normal looking male character. The original model for the male look was very promising. But now there has been a period of beta testing and Blizzard has changed the look... Here's the reason they gave:

As many players have noticed, we have made a slight change to the male Blood Elf character models. In response to concerns that the Blood Elf male appeared to be too feminine, and after reviewing the model from a visual and conceptual standpoint, the decision was made to increase the body mass to give them a more substantial, masculine feel. It was also important that as members of the Horde that the Blood Elves gave the impression of strength and a more menacing presence.

:mad: This sucks for a number of reasons. One thing is that we get a new race that looks just as dispropertioned as the rest, but most importantly because the reason they give for changing demonstrates a skewed moral. They're obviously giving in to a vocal, but hopefully relatively small, share of players who have small-minded opinion of how males "should" be.

I think it's fair to say that I've gotten my knickers in a twist over this. I spent some time making these images to demonstrate the folly of it all. First the disproportionate humans:
http://lavacat.com/diverse/wowhuman.jpg
Their deltoid/head size proportions are 56% bigger than that of a body builder. :rolleyes:

Now take a look at this image that compares the new model, the old model and our favourite modern day elf icon, Legolas, as played by Orlando Bloom. Even the old model has more brawn than Legolas, and I don't see many people complaining about Legolas appearing weak in the movies.
http://lavacat.com/diverse/bloodelf.jpg

I think the old model makes them look a bit young, but that's something different entirely and in any case it's still a refreshing change from the other races.

There's a petition here (http://www.petitiononline.com/belves12/petition.html) to bring the old models back. Please sign it. I also encourage people to make as much fuzz about this as possible on Blizzard's own WoW-forums. And if you don't agree that it's good to have the choice of playing a slender elf in WoW, then you can shut up and roll a muscular Draenei when the expansion comes out.

That concludes my rant for now.
*pants*

[Haoshiro]

I liked the old look myself, but understand them catering to the fan majority.

[MacRumorUser]

That concludes my rant for now.
*pants*

Thank goodness.

You do realise it's just a Fantasy game, set with Fantasy characters, in a Fantasy world... ?? right...... :o :confused: :o


Your obsessing and petitoning over the 'reality' of a fictional character in a fantasy game, do you know how much of an idiom that is ?

Time to take break from the computer huh! :D

[gekko513]

I liked the old look myself, but understand them catering to the fan majority.

But is it really the majority? And even if the majority prefers characters on steroids, it's not like they are lacking muscular options in the other races. The other new race, the Draenei, are gigantic and muscular. I don't see how this will expand their fan base, only narrow it.

Draenei:
http://www.wowwiki.com/images/0/0c/Draenei_Paladin.jpg

Thank goodness.

You do realise it's just a Fantasy game, set with Fantasy characters, in a Fantasy world... ?? right...... :o :confused: :o


Your obsessing and petitoning over the 'reality' of a fictional character in a fantasy game, do you know how much of an idiom that is ?

Time to take break from the computer huh! :D
Yes, of course it's a fantasy game, but in this case they promise changes that would make it a more appealing game in my opinion and then they change their mind, which is a bit of a disappointment, but that's not what makes me angry here. What makes me angry is the attitude that shines through in the reason they give for changing it.

[SilentPanda]

They won't change it back. While those screen shots you posted do make it look substantially different, in game the difference is very minor. When I logged my male blood elf paladin in I really didn't even notice he got buffed up... especially when you throw all the armor on top of the model. In my opinion the female blood elf needs to be buffed up too... or maybe her standing animation changed... she just looks... weird.

Nobody is going to quit over it... at least... not a significant amount of people.

Yes, of course it's a fantasy game, but in this case they promise changes that would make it a more appealing game in my opinion and then they change their mind, which is a bit of a disappointment, but that's not what makes me angry here. What makes me angry is the attitude that shines through in the reason they give for changing it.

I guess I don't read every blue post but when did they promise skinny blood elf males?

[Kernow]

Hmm, I hadn't really thought about this, but I guess it kind of bothers me too. All my characters have either been female, or for my only male character, I have chosen a Gnome, for which you can't really see the muscles. The muscles don't do anything for me and make some of the characters look daft. I also think that my perception of elf characters is that they are slender.

[AoWolf]

You do realize you have the wrong picture for the new BE males. That model was thrown out a few days after they were buffed. The new models are sightly more masculine but its almost not noticeable.

[gekko513]

I guess I don't read every blue post but when did they promise skinny blood elf males?
Well, when they presented how the new blood elf race would be, they included pics and screen shots of slender males. It's not a "we promise skinny males" statement, but I don't know how else to put it. They showed they intended the male blood elves to be slender.

You do resize you have the wrong picture for the new BE males. That model was thrown out a few days after they were buffed. The new models are sightly more masculine but its almost not noticeable.
Do you mean realise? No, that's the only picture of the new model I have seen. And how are they more masculine? Do you mean muscular? Masculine and muscular isn't the same thing, you know. Which is what makes Blizzard's statement wrong no matter how miniscule the model change is.

[SilentPanda]

Well, when they presented how the new blood elf race would be, they included pics and screen shots of slender males. It's not a "we promise skinny males" statement, but I don't know how else to put it. They showed they intended the male blood elves to be slender.

Which is the primary reason Blizzard hates giving pre-release information of any kind... I don't blame them. They change a ton of things weekly in Burning Crusade as it's still a work in progress. Maybe if they changed it after you had made your blood elf I could see you being upset... all the Burning Crusade information you get and have is subject to change at any time in drastic ways all the way up to release.

[gekko513]

Which is the primary reason Blizzard hates giving pre-release information of any kind... I don't blame them. They change a ton of things weekly in Burning Crusade as it's still a work in progress. Maybe if they changed it after you had made your blood elf I could see you being upset... all the Burning Crusade information you get and have is subject to change at any time in drastic ways all the way up to release.
I'm sorry but I haven't gotten my point across properly, it seems. The change isn't what's upsetting, it's the reason they give for changing it. They essentially equal masculinity with substantial body mass and say that a slender body is feminine and an undesireable quality for a male elf.

I'll quote someone from the wow-europe forum:
1. Because on this count Blizzard are genuinely in the wrong. This is not a case of the models look silly, please change them, or 'oh my god, why aren't there any BElf warriors, I WANT A BELF WARRIOR!' it's Blizzard taking the side of people who have a discriminitive opinion, and gave discriminitive reasons for altering it. They sided with those tickets that complained the model was 'too girly' and by changing it, they officially re-emphisise a dated attitude, they support it 'officially' and made themselves, inadvertantly, look just as discriminitive as those peopel complaining.

2. Because by siding with these people they further prove the theory that the MMORPG is a playground for the male adolesence, thus by supporting these caveman attitudes, they make it more difficult for non-bigots to play in this environment. AKA: They are alienating their intented market for the product.

3. An aesthetic reason for you, as you seem to think this is why people are moaning: The Blood Elves do not require muscles. They do not require to look like the Night Elves, or the humans. They require to look the part of magic casters. They don't do tanking, ergo, what are the muscles for? Blizzard promised us a pretty face for the horde, promised the horde something different, something unique. They have not delivered.

4. Blizzard were incredibly fast to change the BElf models, in accordance to player feedback and have yet to provide a solid reason for doing so. Changing a character's entire look so quickly is no small thing, and if the only reason they are willing to offer its consumer audience is that people were complaining they looked, 'too thin and effeminate', then they are going to continue getting grief until we get a much more substantial reason. In case you hadn't noticed, people complain about the armour being released allllll the time, for reasons which may include, 'it's too much the same,' or, 'it looks silly', and yet the armour has remained the same.

5. By altering the model because it looked 'too feminine,' they are demonstrating skewed morals to the audience it is peddling its product to. Yes the game belongs to Blizzard, but they still need people to buy the game. If they are found--and they have been, by many of the individuals posting in these threads--to be supporting a biggoted opinion, what do you think will happen then? And if it gets out? When a company get a reputation--a negative reputation, what do you think happens to sales? To shares? They might redeem themselves at some later point, but there will still be that plummet.

BElfs were changed to support outdated, archaic attitudes, instead of supporting a modern, PC attitude. At the same time they do this, government, media, other people are telling us NOT to be archaic. Then kids sit down, play a game and are being told something different--and I can tell you, that the game telling that kid that its okay to be a bigot, that they have to bulk up if they want to avoid being 'girly'--that attitude will have a much more profound effect on them because they might sooner listen to a computer game's morals, than what their local politician is telling them.
Link (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=72087282&sid=1&pageNo=21)

[devilot]

It's interesting to see the flip-side of what women (and young women and girls) have been dealing with for decades now... We're not considered "feminine" enough unless we're thin w/ all the right curves in all the right places (read size C cups, and a nice rear, but gawd forbid you have 1/2 an oz of fat anywhere else on your body).

WoW is a HUGE game. There are... thousands if not millions (?) of players and these changes, these visual images, they make an impact on each person whether conscious or not.

Good for you Gekko.

[gekko513]

Thanks, devilot, for helping me explain why this is about more than just the pixels on the screen.

[AoWolf]

Do you mean realise? No, that's the only picture of the new model I have seen. And how are they more masculine? Do you mean muscular? Masculine and muscular isn't the same thing, you know. Which is what makes Blizzard's statement wrong no matter how miniscule the model change is.



No I meant "Realize";) I mean masculine the newer models are far more manly then the older ones.

http://picasaweb.google.com/taylorbroussard/MyDocuments those are 2nd generation of buff BE males.

[mdntcallr]

hah, this is funny, feminine/Gay looking characters have been a bit o da norm when thinking about pixies, archers and more.

I guess they decided to go another direction, to make it seem a little less queer. the whole thing about "playing" in WOW is a little gay to me. warcraft really has gone the wrong direction since the old Warcraft, Starcraft days.

i mean, wasnt there a guy recently whose claim to fame that he completed a quest on all of the WOW worlds naked? that really screams out loud WOW is a little goofy.

(heh, this ought to stir some $h1T up, yes im not being serious, but cmon, try feeling some first person shooter out)

[Mackilroy]

I wasn't aware Blizzard had to be 'politically correct.'

Personally, I could care less whether they're super-thin or super-fat. The world won't end either way.

[AoWolf]

I wasn't aware Blizzard had to be 'politically correct.'

Personally, I could care less whether they're super-thin or super-fat. The world won't end either way.

They don't have to be and I am sick of people demanding they make wow a perfect clean utopia. Hell the whole idea of war is not P.C. If your mad about the model files for aesthetic reasons fine, demand they change it back. The real reason they changed it is simple: People complained they were to skinny.

[gekko513]

No I meant "Realize";) I mean masculine the newer models are far more manly then the older ones.

http://picasaweb.google.com/taylorbroussard/MyDocuments those are 2nd generation of buff BE males.
Thanks for the link. The new models don't look that bad. If the change is that small, I can't say I see the point of making the change at all: link (http://picasaweb.google.com/taylorbroussard/MyDocuments/photo#4989330834421514258) And especially not make such a small change for the given bigoted reason.

I think the latest posts in this thread does nothing but support that Blizzard in the role they have should think carefully about the signals they give.

[AoWolf]

Thanks for the link. The new models don't look that bad. If the change is that small, I can't say I see the point of making the change at all: link (http://picasaweb.google.com/taylorbroussard/MyDocuments/photo#4989330834421514258) And especially not make such a small change for the given bigoted reason.

I think the latest posts in this thread does nothing but support that Blizzard in the role they have should think carefully about the signals they give.

If think your seeing things that are not real. The model was changed because people complained. More people complained so they changed it back, but to save face they left it a little buffer.

[gekko513]

If think your seeing things that are not real. The model was changed because people complained. More people complained so they changed it back, but to save face they left it a little buffer.
The only statement from Blizzard I know about concerning this issue is the one where they say that the old blood elves were "too feminine" and therefore had to change. Are there any others? Giving "too feminine" as the reason to change the model isn't acceptable the way I and many others see it. Someone elses new thread on this on the European wow-forums (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=80838228&sid=1).

[mdntcallr]

for more on the world on warcraft being gay

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PwbBfuJDdM0

some other ones to make you laugh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKA59e4HU4E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib7urKwC2PY

[Abulia]

So just to summarize for those coming into the thread late:

You got your panties in a bunch because Blizzard made some changes to thier game based on player feedback without your looking at the changes prior to getting upset?

An Internet petition? LOL! :D

[gekko513]

Nice try, but that doesn't summarize the thread. You can read the link in my previous post to find someone who are better at articulating the point I want to make.

mdntcallr: The first and second video were hilarious.

[AoWolf]

The only statement from Blizzard I know about concerning this issue is the one where they say that the old blood elves were "too feminine" and therefore had to change. Are there any others? Giving "too feminine" as the reason to change the model isn't acceptable the way I and many others see it. Someone elses new thread on this on the European wow-forums (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=80838228&sid=1).



For those that have been voicing their reasons for the dislike or like of this change in a calm and reasoned matter, I want to thank you. I realize that changes like these though cosmetic are often noticeable by a larger portion of the community since they are readily accessible to all.

There are a few things to keep in mind when taking in this change.

First off, when people have gotten used to things looking a certain way it can be a shock no matter how minor a change. We are after all, creatures of habit.

Second off, there is a core consideration that has been overlooked by many arguing over this topic and that is of a consistency in appearance with the rest of the world and the characters and creatures in it. There is a specific style that is in play and we want to make sure that the style in use is carried out through all aspects of the world which includes the Blood Elves. I realize people think that their more feminine leanings were the primary thrust but it was a part of the consideration when thinking of the current models that are in use. The question comes up of "Do these Elves belong in this world and are they what we want them to be?"

Last but not least, I want to make everyone aware that the team is paying attention to how players feel about this change. That is not a promise that change will come if people complain enough or post enough. That is simply a statement that there is a sense of understanding that people are going to react either positively or negatively to this change and we want to see if those feelings change as players get to see more of the Blood Elf as it is now.

In the meantime, I would really like to caution people to lay down their arguments that go outside the boundaries of what should be discussed here. There have been enough false accusations and arguments that serve no purpose to this discussion and I'd hate to shut the thread down.

Thats from a female blizzard poster on the American forums.

[miniConvert]

I totally think the old model looked better. MUCH better. I've signed the petition.

[gekko513]

Thats from a female blizzard poster on the American forums.

Thanks for that. I can't say it really helps much to explain their reasoning. Just some foggy talk about femininity not being the main thrust of the race. Huh? She also says one has to think about consistency of appearance with the rest of the world. I can agree with that. It makes sense that the male elves are thin and slender compared to the other races, just like the female elves are also thin and slender compared to the other races.

[sikkinixx]

Well if a majority complains they don't like how they look then why shouldnt they change it? People play games to escape reality not to be bound to it...

[Sky Blue]

There's a petition here (http://www.petitiononline.com/belves12/petition.html) to bring the old models back. Please sign it. I also encourage people to make as much fuzz about this as possible on Blizzard's own WoW-forums. *pants*

It's only a game!

(and the fuzz bit made me laugh!)

[slackersonly]

It's only a game!

and it is just the posters opinion.
i understand it and i agree with it.
you have dwarf and tauren races to be the large buff character. why change things.?

[devilot]

... whatever. When was the last time masculinity was honestly seen in a negative manner? This is just another example when "femininity" is a fault.

[gekko513]

Well if a majority complains they don't like how they look then why shouldnt they change it? People play games to escape reality not to be bound to it...
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but that's not the reason they gave. If they had said "In response to the fact that very few liked the slender look of the Blood Elf, ...", I'd have no problem with it, but they said "In response to concerns that the Blood Elf male appeared to be too feminine, ...". A choice of words that has a very foul stench to it.
It's only a game!

(and the fuzz bit made me laugh!)
You're right. I'm calmer now. I see red sometimes when I think people are spreading, encouraging or putting up with the idea that there is only one acceptable way to be and behave as a man and another as a woman.

[Mordaci]

One of the things that stinks about World of Warcraft is that the male of all the races except trolls and undead look like they're body builders on steroids. Well actually they're even more bulky than real world body builders on steroids can ever hope to be.

The Blood Elf race that was announced for the upcoming expansion seemed to give hope to those of us who wanted to play a more normal looking male character. The original model for the male look was very promising. But now there has been a period of beta testing and Blizzard has changed the look... Here's the reason they gave:



:mad: This sucks for a number of reasons. One thing is that we get a new race that looks just as dispropertioned as the rest, but most importantly because the reason they give for changing demonstrates a skewed moral. They're obviously giving in to a vocal, but hopefully relatively small, share of players who have small-minded opinion of how males "should" be.

I think it's fair to say that I've gotten my knickers in a twist over this. I spent some time making these images to demonstrate the folly of it all. First the disproportionate humans:
http://lavacat.com/diverse/wowhuman.jpg
Their deltoid/head size proportions are 56% bigger than that of a body builder. :rolleyes:

Now take a look at this image that compares the new model, the old model and our favourite modern day elf icon, Legolas, as played by Orlando Bloom. Even the old model has more brawn than Legolas, and I don't see many people complaining about Legolas appearing weak in the movies.
http://lavacat.com/diverse/bloodelf.jpg

I think the old model makes them look a bit young, but that's something different entirely and in any case it's still a refreshing change from the other races.

There's a petition here (http://www.petitiononline.com/belves12/petition.html) to bring the old models back. Please sign it. I also encourage people to make as much fuzz about this as possible on Blizzard's own WoW-forums. And if you don't agree that it's good to have the choice of playing a slender elf in WoW, then you can shut up and roll a muscular Draenei when the expansion comes out.

That concludes my rant for now.
*pants*

Dont copy me arggg.....http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=46216449&sid=1&pageNo=1
At least this is getting on the web =/ and other ppl are angry about the change=/

[XxDeonxX]

The Reason A Very Very Little Amount rest assure Of People think they look to "femine", is simply because of they way they stand when creating a charecter, no other reason. Hasn't any1 thought of this, and i dont see whats wrong with this anyway. If you make them stand like the High Elves did in WC3 u can get a pic off wikipedia by searching high elves wow or something, they wouldent look so "feminine" and they would be Perfect. And this is not some bias opinion because personally i like the old ones better

[Dunepilot]

The Reason A Very Very Little Amount rest assure Of People think they look to "femine", is simply because of they way they stand when creating a charecter, no other reason. Hasn't any1 thought of this, and i dont see whats wrong with this anyway. If you make them stand like the High Elves did in WC3 u can get a pic off wikipedia by searching high elves wow or something, they wouldent look so "feminine" and they would be Perfect. And this is not some bias opinion because personally i like the old ones better


I've never played WoW but I thought this was a reasonably interesting thread, until I read this post and didn't understand any of it.

[kalisphoenix]

Body-building elves?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Glad to see that the latent homosexuality of the WoW community is still alive and throbbing like a schwanzenstücker at the sight of a poopenschaft. "Must... have... more... muscles! And... make the bulge bigger... YARGH!"

One of the reasons I didn't like this game all that much was that the Night Elves looked like friggin' Hulk Hogan. They're elves.

Main Entry: elf
Pronunciation: 'elf
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural elves /'elvz/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English ælf; akin to Old Norse alfr elf & perhaps to Latin albus white -- more at ALB
1 : a small often mischievous fairy
2 : a small lively creature; also : a usually lively mischievous or malicious person
- elf·ish /'el-fish/ adjective
- elf·ish·ly adverb

Even AD&D/Tolkien are on the upper bounds of the idea... this is just purely ludicrous. What's next? A human with wings, scales, and fire-breathing ability? A water-breathing gnome with flippers and a large baleen construction in his mouth for trapping small organisms such as krill and other plankton?

*sighs*

[ijimk]

I really dont see that big of a difference. Either way i plan on rolling a BE priest when the Exp is released.

[gloss]

You're right. The body proportions of these fictional races in Blizzard's cartoonish fantasy world are just obscenely unrealistic.

We should start a petition.

[Swarmlord]

Who wants to play a girly-man? The muscles make the armor sets look far cooler. Too bad there's no way to add muscles to my undead rogue's boney frame. My Bloodfang set looks less impressive than it does on say a troll or orc.

[gloss]

Taurens in squishy gear have it the worst. Bipedal cows in dresses FTL.

[Lord Blackadder]

This is interesting...

I've always been a big fan of Tolkien, though that's pretty much the extent of my foray into the fantasy genre, besides some Diablo II or Dungeon Siege. He pretty much invented the elf as a fantasy character, and he always emphasized the elf as beautiful, to the point that both genders were equally beautiful in appearance to others, male or female. I don't get an image of The Rock when I visualize a Tolkienian elf...

I have to say that IMHO Blizzard's first character model was more "correct" and appealing to me. I always like to play the less bulky characters because they look more real.

Anyway, I'll never play WoW (no time/money/inclination), so this really means little to me, but it's interesting to see how much this does mean to a lot of you.

A simple compromise for Blizzard would be to allow players to pick either model - having more physical variation would only enhance the realism.

[Mordaci]

I really dont see that big of a difference. Either way i plan on rolling a BE priest when the Exp is released.
This isnt ligit, this is photo shop to make it seem that its not that big of a change

[Mordaci]

Who wants to play a girly-man? The muscles make the armor sets look far cooler. Too bad there's no way to add muscles to my undead rogue's boney frame. My Bloodfang set looks less impressive than it does on say a troll or orc.

What?!?! trolls are the skinnest next to undead, thats why we want a more atractive choice for a skinny model, all we have are these two guys who are always hunched over(trolls and undead)

[ijimk]

This isnt ligit, this is photo shop to make it seem that its not that big of a change

well i got the link to this pic here buddy. So i was not trying to put non legit info up just since i was not in the beta i wanted to see something to show me the change and this is what i found. :mad: http://www.wowinsider.com/2006/10/23/blizz-bulks-up-beta-build-blood-elves/

[Mordaci]

well i got the link to this pic here buddy. So i was not trying to put non legit info up just since i was not in the beta i wanted to see something to show me the change and this is what i found. :mad: http://www.wowinsider.com/2006/10/23/blizz-bulks-up-beta-build-blood-elves/

no i mean, that pic has already been brought up in the wow forums and they discovered t to be fake