New iBooks out now [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

Apr 22, 2003, 05:28 AM

hmmm... no airport extreme? and still os9 bootable... apple could have gone further...

osX - os9 is not that clear transition like apple would like i guess. i even know people rather switching to pc than to osX, because they were ****ed up with printercompatibility (pro printers).

this ibook is here to stay another 150 days. do you think it'll get g4, fw800, apExtreme next time?
.a

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 05:28 AM

I was waiting for this update. And I have to say that I'm very happy with it.

Have you guys noticed that the bottom line iBook now has 32MB of VRam? that is awesome

This now means I'll probably go and get myself an 800Mhz iBook. Since I wanted to use the display hack to use my external 19" CRT, the extra 16Mb will be handy. Previously, the 700mhz was out of the question, but now things are looking better. And since I don't need a CDRW as I already have one on my desktop anyway...

Only think I would have liked as well is bluetooth. Oh well, will have to get a USB dongle I suppose

ibook 800, here i come

Now, I would like to find out what the 60Gb HD is... do you guys think it's a 5k rpm? or the slower one?

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 05:44 AM

and the 128mb in the basic config is rediculous!
have you ever tried to manage (only) 40 pics with 128mb ram in iphoto2?
A NIGHTMARE!!!
.a

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by .a
and the 128mb in the basic config is rediculous!
have you ever tried to manage (only) 40 pics with 128mb ram in iphoto2?
A NIGHTMARE!!!
.a
Yeah, but RAM is easily upgradeable. VRam is not

cionheart

Apr 22, 2003, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by Latino
I was waiting for this update. And I have to say that I'm very happy with it.

Have you guys noticed that the bottom line iBook now has 32MB of VRam? that is awesome

This now means I'll probably go and get myself an 800Mhz iBook. Since I wanted to use the display hack to use my external 19" CRT, the extra 16Mb will be handy. Previously, the 700mhz was out of the question, but now things are looking better. And since I don't need a CDRW as I already have one on my desktop anyway...

Only think I would have liked as well is bluetooth. Oh well, will have to get a USB dongle I suppose

ibook 800, here i come

Now, I would like to find out what the 60Gb HD is... do you guys think it's a 5k rpm? or the slower one?

Latino

I can't figure out a reason why Apple should build a 5400rpm drive in the iBooks if even the big 17" Powerbook got an 4200rpm drive (so the iBooks run a little bit cooler because of the G3, but we all know how Apple cuts down the iBook for the PB's). But I have to agree with you, the bottom line iBook now is *very* attractive. If I hadn't a PB 12" yet, I would go with the little iBook (which doesn't mean I am unhappy with my little AL :) ).

-- cionheart

cb911

Apr 22, 2003, 06:04 AM

didn't the previous iBooks have only 16MB Video RAM in both models?

anyway, now the iBooks have 32MB Video RAM, the same as the low-end PowerBooks. doesn't Apple usually keep the specs of the iBooks and the PowerBooks a bit apart? this looks like there might be a PowerBook update on the way...:eek: ;) :D

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by cb911
didn't the previous iBooks have only 16MB Video RAM in both models?

anyway, now the iBooks have 32MB Video RAM, the same as the low-end PowerBooks. doesn't Apple usually keep the specs of the iBooks and the PowerBooks a bit apart? this looks like there might be a PowerBook update on the way...:eek: ;) :D

Only the 700Mhz iBook had 16Mb of VRam. The 800Mhz had 32Mhz. Basically, they have taken the combo drive off the previous 12" 800Mhz ibook, and dropped the price by £250 (in the UK). That sounds great to me! I can buy a DVD-R and a firewire enclosure for that much! :D

But I really would have liked integrated bluetooth though. My t86i is itching for a mate to play with. It's getting kind of lonely. :P

kallur

Apr 22, 2003, 06:11 AM

Has somebody got more accurate information, but it seems to me, that even 12" Combo model is now made of opaque white plastic insteed of crystal white plastic. At least apple online store lists extra battery as opaque white.
???

richie

Apr 22, 2003, 06:36 AM

New Apple Store design too! (The main page says 'check out our new store design' with a badly drawn arrow, heh) :)

maradong

Apr 22, 2003, 06:45 AM

nice... perhaps i ll get one for my little bro... :)

RBMaraman

Apr 22, 2003, 07:14 AM

Nice to see the iBook's are finally updated. Now we don't have to hear people whining about whether or not they should purchase one.

I'm a little surprised it didn't get a bigger graphic on Apple's homepage, but I guess they want FCP4, DVDSP2, and Shake 3 to be center stage.

Oh, and I like the new Apple Store design.

iJon

Apr 22, 2003, 07:55 AM

morlium

Apr 22, 2003, 07:58 AM

I find it rather strange that the iBook update was squeaked in under the radar today ... I mean, it's barely on their home page, there's no press release in the 'Hot News' section, and the new store design (which will certainly take some getting used to) completely overshadows any new hardware!!?

What's the score here?

Sakino

Apr 22, 2003, 08:06 AM

Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the new ibook line. This is the year of the laptop and apple has yet to prove it. The 17" pb is to big, and the 12" pb is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a 15" pb that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this summer, because if thats not the case I will just find a win laptop that is probably identical to what the pb and ibooks are putting out for a lot cheaper.

morlium

Apr 22, 2003, 08:12 AM

a 900MHz G3 with 32MB RAM, a combo drive and a five-hour battery for $1299 is about as good as it gets.

...and you're not going to find everything that the 17" PowerBook offers for much less than $3,500.

melchior

Apr 22, 2003, 08:15 AM

the 12" PB is not too small. it's too BIG!

something half the weight of the 12" would be a dream. there are various variations of the sub-notebook in the pc market. especially the japanese pc market. i am particularly fond of the latest toshiba....

kungfu

Apr 22, 2003, 08:26 AM

MightyB

Apr 22, 2003, 08:30 AM

Check out that thread here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24970&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

NEVERMIND.. :-(

abdul

Apr 22, 2003, 08:50 AM

Does anyone know how much of difference a 100mHz speed bump actually affects the speed of the computer in real terms?

when it was upgraded from 700 to 800 Apple said it was 30% increase in performace (i think). so does that mean another 30%?

illumin8

Apr 22, 2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by melchior
the 12" PB is not too small. it's too BIG!

something half the weight of the 12" would be a dream. there are various variations of the sub-notebook in the pc market. especially the japanese pc market. i am particularly fond of the latest toshiba....
If that's the way you feel you might check out Dynamism (http://www.dynamism.com), they import Japanese sub-notebooks and translate everything to English for you. They seem to have some really nice systems, I just can't stand typing on a keyboard that small...

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by abdul
Does anyone know how much of difference a 100mHz speed bump actually affects the speed of the computer in real terms?

when it was upgraded from 700 to 800 Apple said it was 30% increase in performace (i think). so does that mean another 30%?

When Apple upgraded the 700Mhz iBook to the 800Mhz iBook, it was not just a mere speed bump. If I remember correctly, when the 700Mhz Ibook was the top iBook, they all had a mobility radeon graphics card, rather than the Radeon 7500. Moreover, I think they only had 16Mb of VRam, which I believe sucks with QE. So given that, they could probably claim up to 30% performance increase in selected tasks.

This time around, all that changes is the CPU speed. Given that it still subject to a 100Mhz bus, I very much doubt the performance of the 900Mhz part is much greater than that of the 800Mhz. May be, on CPU intensive tasks, such as itunes encoding and such, you'll get 10% increase, at most. Not sure if it will be even that.

This is just guesswork though, I have no benchmarks to support my claims. Anyone care to shed some light in this direction?

Cheers

Latino

DakotaGuy

Apr 22, 2003, 09:31 AM

howard

Apr 22, 2003, 09:43 AM

i think its a decent update. the maxed out 12 inch is around 1600...and incredible deal for that laptop. i paid over 2000 for my maxed out ibook. shows you that laptop prices have been dropping a lot.

Hmm

Apr 22, 2003, 09:50 AM

The biggest advantage to the new iBooks is probably the larger hard drive moreso than the CPU speed increase. The extra 10 MB is pretty nice and the ability to add on another 20 MB for a paltry $50 is just super.

lmalave

Apr 22, 2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Latino
Yeah, but RAM is easily upgradeable. VRam is not

Yeah, plus most resellers will throw in an extra 256MB at least.

Kwyjibo

Apr 22, 2003, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by Hmm
The biggest advantage to the new iBooks is probably the larger hard drive

I think this was always a BTO option atleast since the nov 6 revision they only real thing that changed was the standard size included on the 1299 model from 30 to 40. I think you could have order a 60gb if you wanted one.

NavyIntel007

Apr 22, 2003, 09:56 AM

I don't care I want a POWERBOOK!!!

QCassidy352

Apr 22, 2003, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I don't care I want a POWERBOOK!!!

spoilsport. :D I might buy one today! :D

Escher

Apr 22, 2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by melchior
the 12" PB is not too small. it's too BIG!

Oh melchior, what wise words you speak! The iBook/500 I have now brought Apple one step closer to a true subnotebook. The 12-inch PowerBook takes another step in the right direction. Maybe we'll see that 3lbs sub-PowerBook one of these years. And who knows, the "communicating device" announced on the front page might work as a subnotebook.

In any case, I'd still much rather use a 4.6lbs PowerBook with Mac OS X than any sub-3lbs subnotebook running Windows. Two extra pounds are one kind of burden, running Windows is an entirely different kind, a burden I am not willing to bear. :D

Realistically, I'm saving up for a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook, which will hopefully feature a 1+Ghz processor, 1+GB RAM, and DVI-out by the end of the summer.

Escher

dethl

Apr 22, 2003, 10:05 AM

WOW! I don't know if this is education exclusive, but upgrading that 30GB hard drive on the low-end iBook to 60GB is only $72!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :cool: :D

If you are looking at the 128mb and saying, "YUCK!", then go to http://www.pricewatch.com and search for a 512-mb so-dimm...I have seen them go for under $80. I'll take a 100mhz hit just to be able to have a super cheap (with 512mb+60GB HDD) laptop.

The low end ibook looks like a great deal now....might be a good little machine I could tote with me around college.

EDIT: A big con to this machine is that it only has a CD-ROM drive

Latino

Apr 22, 2003, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I don't care I want a POWERBOOK!!!

Well, that's great. Why don't you go and get yourself one then?

Escher

Apr 22, 2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
I think this was always a BTO option atleast since the nov 6 revision they only real thing that changed was the standard size included on the 1299 model from 30 to 40. I think you could have order a 60gb if you wanted one.

Nope, Kwyjibo. BTO HDD upgrades on the iBook were limited to 40GB (or was it 30GB) before this morning. We welcomed the option to BTO with cheap large HDDs when it was introduced with the 12-inch PowerBook in January and wondered why it didn't come to the iBook. Now the iBook has the same BTO options as the PowerBooks.

I wholeheartedly agree with Hmm, the new inexpensive HDD BTO options add more to the iBook's value than the 100Mhz clock speed increase. The only bump that's even cooler is the doubled VRAM in the bottom-end CD-ROM iBook. If I hadn't just spend $300 to repair the backlight cable in my iBook/500, I'd be all over the new $999 iBook (or even better, a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook).

Escher

lmalave

Apr 22, 2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by morlium
a 900MHz G3 with 32MB RAM, a combo drive and a five-hour battery for $1299 is about as good as it gets.

...and you're not going to find everything that the 17" PowerBook offers for much less than $3,500.

Still, it's only 100MHz and 10GB more than the iBook I bought for the same price over 5 months ago. It would've been nice to get at least one new feature, such as integrated Bluetooth. When I bought my iBook it was really the only game in town when it came to rugged, lightweight laptops with built-in optical drives (most small notebooks omitted the drive). Now I'm seeing notebooks from Sony and others that are 4 lbs. or less and have a built-in combo drive (though granted, their price is competing more with the PowerBook). I think Apple needs to step it up a notch.

SilentPanda

Apr 22, 2003, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by maradong
nice... perhaps i ll get one for my little bro... :)

If your little bro doesn't want one you can adopt me... :D

JW Pepper

Apr 22, 2003, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by cionheart
I can't figure out a reason why Apple should build a 5400rpm drive in the iBooks if even the big 17" Powerbook got an 4200rpm drive (so the iBooks run a little bit cooler because of the G3, but we all know how Apple cuts down the iBook for the PB's). But I have to agree with you, the bottom line iBook now is *very* attractive. If I hadn't a PB 12" yet, I would go with the little iBook (which doesn't mean I am unhappy with my little AL :) ).

-- cionheart

Well you are almost there.

1. The iBook will not threatern the preformance of the Powerbook regardless of HD speed.

2. Secondly the decision NOT to put a 5400rpm drive into the Powerbook has to be one of battery life. With a 17" screen and a G4 processor battery life is going to be an issue unless Apple is very careful about the choice of components.

porovaara

Apr 22, 2003, 10:31 AM

In the compusa near my house in San Francisco the iBooks were all $100 cheaper on Saturday. I just figured it was some random sale since they finally finished moving all the mac stuff together in the center to the entrance of the downstairs area.

GigaWire

Apr 22, 2003, 10:33 AM

The new store design is a mess! There are products everywhere, and suggested products on every product page. I like the simple interfac of the old store better. I mean if I knew nothing about Apple, I think I'd have a hell of a time trying to figure out what I want to buy, and where it is. thoughts?

Groovsonic

Apr 22, 2003, 10:51 AM

Ok...Two dumb questions:

1.) Is the drive in the iBook a 5400 rpm drive or a 4200rpm drive? Would there be much diffrence speedwise?

2.) On a completely unrelated note, I have a 800mhz 17in FP iMac. We bought it in september. Is the Hard drive in that 5400rpm or 7200rpm? I noticed the new ones have a 7200rpm drive, and I was just curious if this had changed from my iMac.

Thanks!

Flowbee

Apr 22, 2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by GigaWire
The new store design is a mess!

I agree. If today was my first visit to the Apple store online, I probably wouldn't spend too long there. When software boxes get the same screen space as their flagship machines, well... you know something's wrong with the page design. Entirely too cluttered.

timbloom

Apr 22, 2003, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Flowbee
I agree. If today was my first visit to the Apple store online, I probably wouldn't spend too long there. When software boxes get the same screen space as their flagship machines, well... you know something's wrong with the page design. Entirely too cluttered.
off topic a bit, but I think all that software is there just to hold space for future products. If there are as many devices and random things to be announced this year, apple needed a site redesign.

PaisanoMan

Apr 22, 2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Escher
In any case, I'd still much rather use a 4.6lbs PowerBook with Mac OS X than any sub-3lbs subnotebook running Windows. Two extra pounds are one kind of burden, running Windows is an entirely different kind, a burden I am not willing to bear. :D

Realistically, I'm saving up for a Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook, which will hopefully feature a 1+Ghz processor, 1+GB RAM, and DVI-out by the end of the summer.

Me too, Escher, and that's why I got a PowerBook 12". I had a tiny, tiny x86 subnotebook, but I rather like the PB12" because it's a good balance between size, weight, and features. My opinion is that subnotes look good on paper, but few can really appreciate the small screens/keyboards, reduced battery life (unless you want a disproportionately large "high capacity" battery), and poor usability.

It could be faster, though, which is why I'm waiting for the mythical PowerBook 970 15". :) I expect to wait a while.

(By the way, I think 1 GB SO-DIMMs are now available for the PB12", but they're far too expensive to be practical. But I want one.)

beatle888

Apr 22, 2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Sakino
I will just find a win laptop that is probably identical to what the pb and ibooks are putting out for a lot cheaper.

well then i would say jump on it.:rolleyes:

aaronvegh

Apr 22, 2003, 11:43 AM

Wonder Boy

Apr 22, 2003, 11:45 AM

davy the bunny

Apr 22, 2003, 11:57 AM

Jeez, you got my hopes up when it said CD-R, I was about to leave work and go get one if the CD writeables had gone down to $999. But that's a great deal, I might go get a new one today anyway. . .

jxyama

Apr 22, 2003, 11:57 AM

Sakino-

Go knock yourself out. Go get a Wintel machine for a cheaper price. Why do so many "switcher wannabes" come here, of all places, whine that Apple is too expensive/slow/whatever and "threaten" us that they are gonna go get a PC.

Get a machine you want, considering all the specs. If the $$$ is the only thing you are concerned with, go get a Dell. Some of you make it seem like Apple has an obligation to potential switchers. You are never going to get an Al 15" with 970 with 8 hour battery, bluetooth and 100 GB HD for $1,000, which is what you guys seem to be expecting at times.

macphoria

Apr 22, 2003, 12:19 PM

What a royal disappointment.

Only 900mhz. No Bluetooth. No Airport Extreme. Same old machine with 100mhz added.

They could have done better.

ColoJohnBoy

Apr 22, 2003, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
I think this was always a BTO option atleast since the nov 6 revision they only real thing that changed was the standard size included on the 1299 model from 30 to 40. I think you could have order a 60gb if you wanted one.

Actually, before this the largest hard drive you could get an an iBook (the largest from Apple, that is) was 40 GB.

This is what I've been waiting for - a larger hard drive. I have tons of music in iTunes, a bunch of music videos, movies trailers, and home movies, and a 40 GB just hasn't been cutting it. A maxed out 12" iBook will be perfect. I'll be able to take it to class for note taking, use it in the car to listen to music (As I don't yet have an iPod) and play my piddly little games (The Sims, AoE II, and Civ III). I love my 800 MHz PowerBook, but I prefer to carry something smaller around with me. I think I'll give my CRT iMac away, and use my PB as my desktop.

Well, now I'm just blabbering, but Apple updates excite me to no end :)

P.S. - I love the new design for the Apple Store. Just like everything else that comes from Apple, it's "pretty".

yzedf

Apr 22, 2003, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by macphoria
What a royal disappointment.

Only 900mhz. No Bluetooth. No Airport Extreme. Same old machine with 100mhz added.

They could have done better.
But the nobody would buy the PB 12" :rolleyes:

t^3

Apr 22, 2003, 12:30 PM

Hasn't anyone noticed that the Combo drives now write at 24x CD-R and 10x CD-RW, compared to 16x/8x before?

Freg3000

Apr 22, 2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by t^3
Hasn't anyone noticed that the Combo drives now write at 24x CD-R and 10x CD-RW, compared to 16x/8x before?

Yes, I just saw it. I agree with someone else who said that Apple just wanted to slip this small update prior to the huge announcements next Tuesday.

Sakino

Apr 22, 2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by jxyama
Sakino-

Go knock yourself out. Go get a Wintel machine for a cheaper price. Why do so many "switcher wannabes" come here, of all places, whine that Apple is too expensive/slow/whatever and "threaten" us that they are gonna go get a PC.

Get a machine you want, considering all the specs. If the $$$ is the only thing you are concerned with, go get a Dell. Some of you make it seem like Apple has an obligation to potential switchers. You are never going to get an Al 15" with 970 with 8 hour battery, bluetooth and 100 GB HD for $1,000, which is what you guys seem to be expecting at times.

Price is not a factor I have 6gs sitting in the bank waiting for something that catches my eye. I was goign to buy a pb the week of the keynotes but then they dropped the new line of PB. Now I been waiting around for the past 4 months hoping something would come up, but thats not the case. When apple said "This is the year of the laptop" I quess I expected alittle more to come out of them. Unforunitly I will probably end up waiting till summer, and hopefully they will release the new 15" pb.

All in all I expected to see alittle more in the ibook line.
The pb line is left kind of screwed up right now if you ask me.

madforrit

Apr 22, 2003, 01:08 PM

Hmm, the new look on the store is interesting...can't say I love it. I would have figured they would have waited til summer to do this. Interesting thing is the education store still has the old look, if anyone wants to do comparisons. ;)
Splash page leading to edu. store looks neat though....very "inviting" or whatever.

Dave K

Apr 22, 2003, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by PaisanoMan
(By the way, I think 1 GB SO-DIMMs are now available for the PB12", but they're far too expensive to be practical. But I want one.)

A german company, IIRC, was offering these to European customers acording to the local computer paper, so they're available...

Grokgod

Apr 22, 2003, 01:45 PM

I find the situation kinda frustrating.

Why do you think its screwed up> Sakino?

I wanted the Alubook but 17 is too big and i think that there are issues on the LCD and its hinge and the 12 ALu has heating issues, that is not good sounding.

I mean warped lids, ouch!

I would have bought almost anything that Apple could bring out.

But the new PowerBooks they just leave me cold.

I try to follow my instincts!

A 5400 rpm HD inthe iBook but not the Powerbooks is insane ot me, and they have an upgrade for the faster drive at least they used to!

stompy

Apr 22, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by macphoria
What a royal disappointment.

Only 900mhz. No Bluetooth. No Airport Extreme. Same old machine with 100mhz added.

They could have done better.

Apple could only do better if the PB 12" didn't exist. In reality, the PB 12" (minus Al case) is what this iBook revision would have been, if the 970 were ready.

Unfortunately, I don't see the iBook getting decent updates until the PowerBook line is all 970 -- that's probably 2 revs away.

Perceptes

Apr 22, 2003, 01:48 PM

I need to get a laptop when I leave for college this fall... I like the style/price of the iBooks, but they're just too slow! Mac OS X can barely hold itself together on my G4/466! Nice to see they're upping it a little bit though.

Snowy_River

Apr 22, 2003, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by GigaWire
The new store design is a mess! There are products everywhere, and suggested products on every product page. I like the simple interfac of the old store better. I mean if I knew nothing about Apple, I think I'd have a hell of a time trying to figure out what I want to buy, and where it is. thoughts?

I think that I'd be inclined to disagree. Comparing it to the old Apple store format (as has been mentioned, still visible in the education store), I find that the new format is much more simple and elegant than the old format. (I even went looking for something in the old format - a software title - and found that I had to really search for it, whereas it was readily accessible from the front page of the new format.)

All in all, I think that this is a change for the better. But, then again, that's just me... ;)

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Sakino
Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the new ibook line. This is the year of the laptop and apple has yet to prove it. The 17" pb is to big, and the 12" pb is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a 15" pb that is considered out of date when I pick it up. I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this summer, because if thats not the case I will just find a win laptop that is probably identical to what the pb and ibooks are putting out for a lot cheaper.

Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the ______ line. This is the year of the _____ and apple has yet to prove it. The _____ is too big, and the ______ is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) _____ that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this _______, because if thats not the case I will just find a win _____ that is probably identical to what the _______ and ______ are putting out for a lot cheaper.

nice work. for everyone who is never happy, please use this excellent template for future line update complaints.

pilotgi

Apr 22, 2003, 01:56 PM

They could have done better.
This is an update not a redesign. The 32MB vram is nice, as it will allow everyone who buys the less expensive laptop to take advantage of QE.

I'm guessing the redesign will come at MWSF 2004, with an improved G3 with a 200 Mhz bus.

Snowy_River

Apr 22, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by stompy
... until the PowerBook line is all 970 -- that's 2 revisions away at least.

Now, now, unless you know something that you're not telling us, then you don't really know how long it will be until the PowerBook line goes to the 970. Right?

(Note: Neither do I. It could be in June, or it could be next year. My only point is that we just don't know.)

Originally posted by Perceptes
I need to get a laptop when I leave for college this fall... I like the style/price of the iBooks, but they're just too slow! Mac OS X can barely hold itself together on my G4/466! Nice to see they're upping it a little bit though.

While I can possibly understand issues with a 466 machine, I'm running OS X on a 600 iBook, and I don't have that many complaints. I'd certainly never say that it was 'barely holding itself together'. So, if the iBooks look good to you, I'd say go for them.

Myself, I'm going to be getting a new PowerBook soon, as there are some applications that I run that are pushing this little iBook to its limits. Soon. Soon.... :)

eric_n_dfw

Apr 22, 2003, 02:02 PM

Zimv20,
I love it! I may print copies of that and hand it to the PC biggots here whenever they start wasting my time with their anti-mac crap!

RBMaraman

Apr 22, 2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by pilotgi
I'm guessing the redesign will come at MWSF 2004, with an improved G3 with a 200 Mhz bus.

I think we will see a complete redesign at MWNY 2003.

This update was very minimal. I predict that this update is only to tide people over until a completely new iBook is released in July (when the PowerBook line will most likely be updated). In the redesign we will see AirPort Extreme added and maybe Bluetooth.

Remember, OS 9 booting will supposedly stop in June (and these iBooks still boot 9 to satisfy the education market). Apple badly wants to kill OS 9, so and update at MWNY 2003 would finish OS 9 off for good.

bigduke6

Apr 22, 2003, 02:19 PM

Come on Apple. A CD-ROM in the low end iBook? How much more would it cost for them to add a burner or just a DVD. More and more software in the coming years will be pushed out on DVD and I for one was looking for something to compliment my PowerMac.

Just need it when I'm on the road and for my wife to surf the web when I'm working on "Big Daddy". But a cd-rom is just a waste of space since I hoped to at lest hang on to it for a couple of years.

I know I'm one of thousand who have asked for Apple to upgrade the drive...thanks for listening to your customers.

DakotaGuy

Apr 22, 2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Sakino
All in all I expected to see alittle more in the ibook line.

If you saw anymore in the iBook line, you would have a Powerbook. The 900Mhz iBook is already knocking on the door of the 867Mhz Powerbook. If they had put in a 1Ghz G3, 64MB of Vid RAM, Airport Extreme, and FW800 all for $1,299 Powerbook sales would have been hurt and hurt bad.

DakotaGuy

Apr 22, 2003, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Grokgod
I find the situation kinda frustrating.

Why do you think its screwed up> Sakino?

I wanted the Alubook but 17 is too big and i think that there are issues on the LCD and its hinge and the 12 ALu has heating issues, that is not good sounding.

I mean warped lids, ouch!

I would have bought almost anything that Apple could bring out.

But the new PowerBooks they just leave me cold.

I try to follow my instincts!

A 5400 rpm HD inthe iBook but not the Powerbooks is insane ot me, and they have an upgrade for the faster drive at least they used to!

Well if you need a laptop and have all those issues with the Powerbook line, why not try a new iBook?

jxyama

Apr 22, 2003, 02:40 PM

Sakino-

It sounds like you have (had) your heart set on 15" Al, whenever it may come out. Then why would an iBook update bother you so much? :confused: You didn't really expect 14" iBook to suddenly turn into a 15" PB, did you? (You already mentioned how 12" PB is too small, so I assume 12" iBook is too small for you as well?)

I think expanding the PB line to include 12" and 17" is a pretty good start to the "year of the laptop." Notice Jobs said it's the "year of the laptop," not the "year of Sakino's dream laptop."

If price wasn't an issue and you already visit this site, why would you even mention getting a PC in place of a Mac? If you really think PC is a viable alternative to meet your needs, then go and buy one, no need to tell us. I happen to think PC is not a viable alternative to a Mac, but that's just my opinion.

(By the way, I don't really care about all this. I just felt like pretending to take these "personally." Oh also, since we are in a "proper" tech forum, 6 grands should be abbreviated 6k, not 6g, unless, of course, you have 6 giga-dollars.) :D

MetallicPenguin

Apr 22, 2003, 02:41 PM

Sweet! I really like new store design also.

DakotaGuy

Apr 22, 2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Perceptes
I need to get a laptop when I leave for college this fall... I like the style/price of the iBooks, but they're just too slow! Mac OS X can barely hold itself together on my G4/466!

How do you know they are slow? Have you ran a new 900Mhz iBook yet? I would think with Quartz Extreme and 32MB of VR, and a 900Mhz G3 Sahara processor these will be a very quick little laptop. OSX runs quick on my iBook 600 combo, and these have a much better supported vid card, 300 more Mhz and double the L2 cache. I don't think they will be slow at all!

Vlade

Apr 22, 2003, 03:03 PM

I remember more then a year ago when a hundred MHZ bump was a good thing... apple can't keep on doing this.

I hope this isn't the way the year of the laptop is going to continue

uberman42

Apr 22, 2003, 03:10 PM

Personally I feel the update doesn't do . It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the MCCHICKEN SANDWICH line. This is the year of the LAPDANCE and apple has yet to prove it. The ST. BERNARD is too big, and the CHIHUAHUA is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) AMC GREMLIN that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this FALL FASHION SEASON IN NYC, because if thats not the case I will just find a win XP ON THAT AWESOME GATEWAY HARDWARE that is probably identical to what the POWERBOOK 2400 and LC II are putting out for a lot cheaper.

~ thanks to Zimv20 for the template.
~ Apple Rocks...if you don't get it...you don't get it and you never will--- go back to pc land luddites.

stompy

Apr 22, 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Now, now, unless you know something that you're not telling us, then you don't really know how long it will be until the PowerBook line goes to the 970. Right?

(Note: Neither do I. It could be in June, or it could be next year. My only point is that we just don't know.)

Apple PB releases are all messed up with the delay of the 17". I just can't see all 3 PBs getting the 970 in one fell swoop, here's why.

The PB 15" is due for a revision, I'd say within the next few weeks. The 17" has been shipping for less than a month.

Q: Will Apple put a 970 in the upcoming 15" if the 17" has a G4?
A: Doubtful

Q: Will Apple simultaneously update the 17" so soon?
A: Doubtful

If you believe any of this, it seems likely that the leaves will fall (or snow will fly) before the 15" is due for another update. (The 17" may get the 970 before the 15", or Apple could surprise me and release a 970 15" and 17" simultaneously.)

Next PB schedule under scrutiny, the 12", which was released Jan. 7. We should be close to Rev. B, say, middle of May to the first part of June. Conclusion? The 12" may get a few tweaks, but I wouldn't bet on major changes, and especially not a 970. I'd say a 1Ghz G4, more HD space, and hopefully, a better graphics chip. Based on all these assumptions :rolleyes:, the 12" could get the 970 late 2003 or early 2004, which would definately pave the way for a significant update to the iBook.

So, am I guessing? Sure, what else are these forums for. :p

Cheers

DakotaGuy

Apr 22, 2003, 03:44 PM

Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the Apple II line. This is the year of the Color Display and apple has yet to prove it. The Lisa is too big, and the IIc is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) Atari that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this hunting season, because if thats not the case I will just find a win 3.1 on a 286 that is probably identical to what Apple and Commodore are putting out for a lot cheaper.

nice work. for everyone who is never happy, please use this excellent template for future line update complaints.

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by uberman42
I expected alittle more out of apple on the MCCHICKEN SANDWICH line. This is the year of the LAPDANCE and apple has yet to prove it. The ST. BERNARD is too big, and the CHIHUAHUA is to small for most people.

Originally posted by AbercrombieBoy
I expected alittle more out of apple on the Apple II line. This is the year of the Color Display and apple has yet to prove it. The Lisa is too big, and the IIc is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) Atari that is considered out of date when I pick it up.

wheee!!!!!

Sakino

Apr 22, 2003, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the Apple II line. This is the year of the Color Display and apple has yet to prove it. The Lisa is too big, and the IIc is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) Atari that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this hunting season, because if thats not the case I will just find a win 3.1 on a 286 that is probably identical to what Apple and Commodore are putting out for a lot cheaper.

nice work. for everyone who is never happy, please use this excellent template for future line update complaints.

lol

Pipian

Apr 22, 2003, 04:04 PM

The 1000$ ibook.. It doesn't comw with a CD-R, does it?

Kwyjibo

Apr 22, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by Pipian
The 1000$ ibook.. It doesn't comw with a CD-R, does it?

no it comes with a cdrom.

herr_neumann

Apr 22, 2003, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by zimv20

Personally I feel the update doesn't do ****. It doesn't make me want to go out and buy my first apple. I expected alittle more out of apple on the ______ line. This is the year of the _____ and apple has yet to prove it. The _____ is too big, and the ______ is to small for most people. I don't want to buy a(n) _____ that is considered out of date when I pick it up.
I really hope apple gets it ass in gear this _______, because if thats not the case I will just find a win _____ that is probably identical to what the _______ and ______ are putting out for a lot cheaper.

nice work. for everyone who is never happy, please use this excellent template for future line update complaints.

LOL!!!!

Foxer

Apr 22, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by stompy

Next PB schedule under scrutiny, the 12", which was released Jan. 7. We should be close to Rev. B, say, middle of May to the first part of June. Conclusion? The 12" may get a few tweaks, but I wouldn't bet on major changes, and especially not a 970. I'd say a 1Ghz G4, more HD space, and hopefully, a better graphics chip. Based on all these assumptions :rolleyes:, the 12" could get the 970 late 2003 or early 2004, which would definately pave the way for a significant update to the iBook.

We forget so soon that "announce" and "ship" are too very different things in the Apple world. Apple could announce the 970 version of all three (or at least the 15 and 17) in June, with delivery sometime around the start of September (just in time for school).

Even though the 17 has only been shipping for a month, it's been on sale for almost four months. WWDC is another two months from now. Any loss in new sales of the existing 17 after the announcement would be made up in added sales generated by the new chip. Think about it, everyone expects the powermac line to get the step-up, but no one is fretting about how the 1.4 dp just started shipping last month. I've got one sitting on my desk and I'll be one of the first to order a new one, and Apple knows there are a lot of "me" out there. new chips will sell many more computers than milking the 17-inch for a couple more months.

What to look out for: A new G4 based 15 inch. If that comes out, there's no chance that we'll see a 970 in a notebook until (at best) the end of the year. With luck, that's why the 15 inch is still in limbo, they're just "skipping" a generation and the whole line will get stepped up in a few months.

bentmywookie

Apr 22, 2003, 04:45 PM

that the Mobility 7500s now say they use DDR VRAM, whereas before I believe the VRAM was not DDR on the iBooks. Not that that really does anything for this update.

This update would be cool if Apple speedbumped their machines more often than every 6 months. Ah well. The $1000 iBook does seem like a really good deal except it really should have a DVD or combo drive standard. I also feel they should up the minimum included ram to at least 256.

bentmywookie

Apr 22, 2003, 04:50 PM

Also . . . I must say that DAMN ThinkSecret is on point (along with MacRumors of course!). I know they have an excellent track record with rumors but I seriously could not believe that this was all that would be updated. Alas, ThinkSecret proved me wrong!

iJon

Apr 22, 2003, 04:53 PM

well im sure somebody already posted this but the front page is wrong. 14 inch ibooks are 1499 stil not 1399.

iJon

macrumors12345

Apr 22, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by abdul
Does anyone know how much of difference a 100mHz speed bump actually affects the speed of the computer in real terms?

when it was upgraded from 700 to 800 Apple said it was 30% increase in performace (i think). so does that mean another 30%?

No. I think you are referring to the bump from the 600 mhz to 700 mhz iBook. The reason that scaled more than linearly is that the chip actually changed from the 750CXe to the 750FX, IIRC. The FX is a substantially better chip at a given clock speed - it has double the L2 cache (512k vs. 256k...it actually has double the L2 cache of the 7450/7455 too) and wider internal datapaths. Plus it scales higher too.

So from 800 to 900 you will only see a 10-15% jump for CPU intensive tasks. Even less if the tasks are memory bound (which they might be, since that 100 mhz bus is starting to look pretty anemic there...they really need to switch stuff to the 970 so that they don't have to artificially hold back the bus speeds on the consumer Macs).

Snowy_River

Apr 22, 2003, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Foxer

What to look out for: A new G4 based 15 inch. If that comes out, there's no chance that we'll see a 970 in a notebook until (at best) the end of the year. With luck, that's why the 15 inch is still in limbo, they're just "skipping" a generation and the whole line will get stepped up in a few months.

Yup, yup, yup! :D

Well put, Foxer. I agree with everything you had to say. Thanks for backing me up!

:cool:

Fall

Apr 22, 2003, 06:42 PM

Well, this seals it. It's nothing big, but it's the latest so I might have to go and get one now.

and, apple, booo, now new Aussie store!

stompy

Apr 22, 2003, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by Foxer
We forget so soon that "announce" and "ship" are too very different things in the Apple world. Apple could announce the 970 version of all three (or at least the 15 and 17) in June, with delivery sometime around the start of September (just in time for school).

Nothing to stop Apple from announcing a 15" and 17" PB 970 at the end of June, and then shipping in September, except killing all PB sales until then. Yes, I read what you wrote about the lag between announce and ship of the dual 1.4 PM, I simply think the PM line so desperately needs speed improvements, many who order can't wait for the 970 (whenever it arrives), or who say, "this is good enough."

Announcing a 970 PB 3! months before shipping it is a far different matter.

After Apple quarterly earnings were released last week, Jobs said, "This quarter over 40 percent of the Macs we shipped were notebooks -- our highest percentage ever and well ahead of the industry average." This alone is reason enough for Apple not to pre-announce a PB 970. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a PowerMac 970 announcement one or two months before it's ready, but PM sales are disappointing, at best. Here's what Fred Anderson said, as summarized by Macintouch:

"Overall computer shipments dropped 13 percent, with continuing weakness in Power Mac sales, which accounted for just 156,000 computers, including server sales. (This was a 26% decline from the year-ago quarter.)"

Seriously, how much would Apple's bottom line suffer if a 970 PM was pre-announced? Not as much as it would if a 970 PB were.

I'd agree with your comment about a 15" G4. If / when it arrives, I'll be wishing for the next rev.

QCassidy352

Apr 22, 2003, 07:08 PM

I went out and bought a 14" at my local apple store. **** is it sweet!!! Wow. All of you who complain about this update... whatever - Some people will never be happy. This is one nice little laptop. :D

iJon

Apr 22, 2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by QCassidy352
I went out and bought a 14" at my local apple store. **** is it sweet!!! Wow. All of you who complain about this update... whatever - Some people will never be happy. This is one nice little laptop. :D
did the applestore have the new ones in stock?

iJon

Jeffx342

Apr 22, 2003, 07:24 PM

Why is everyone bitch'n about the new ibook's? What... there goin to make it equivalent to the Powerbooks give me a break! I think its a good update

macdong

Apr 22, 2003, 07:30 PM

I've been using this old friend of mine, PB G3 400, for 3 years. Now it's finally time to retire it. I can't wait anymore for a 970 PB. These new iBooks have good prices. This is it. I am getting one.

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by macdong
I've been using this old friend of mine, PB G3 400, for 3 years. Now it's finally time to retire it. I can't wait anymore for a 970 PB. These new iBooks have good prices. This is it. I am getting one.

in december, i replaced my lombard w/ an 800 MHz 12" ibook. HUGE improvement. you'll be very happy.

KingArthur

Apr 22, 2003, 07:39 PM

The only thing I wanna say here is that I am feeling happy that I was partially right;). Now that we have the iBook revisions out of the way, we can expect to see revisions elsewhere.

Also, does anyone else find it interesting that the low-end laptop is actually cheaper than the low end desktop?! I think this is about the first time I have seen this in a company. Well, I guess since Apple's sales are more in the laptops, they have to really push them hard. lol.

Hawthorne

Apr 22, 2003, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by zimv20
in december, i replaced my lombard w/ an 800 MHz 12" ibook. HUGE improvement. you'll be very happy.

Yep. I replaced my old Lombard with a 700mhz iBook las year, and I love it. I can only image how much better these new ones will be. Good luck.

stompy

Apr 22, 2003, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by macdong
I've been using this old friend of mine, PB G3 400, for 3 years. Now it's finally time to retire it. I can't wait anymore for a 970 PB. These new iBooks have good prices. This is it. I am getting one.

If I were buying a home computer today, I'd probably go for this over the PB 12". Airport Extreme and internal bluetooth are fine, but probably not too important for home users; it's a great machine. I love mine!

macdong

Apr 22, 2003, 09:02 PM

Originally posted by stompy
If I were buying a home computer today, I'd probably go for this over the PB 12". Airport Extreme and internal bluetooth are fine, but probably not too important for home users; it's a great machine. I love mine!

I already have a dual 867 PM as my home computer. All I need is a faster mobile computer. the new iBook 14" looks sweet, and it even leaves some space in my pocket to get a new PM with 970 :D

yzedf

Apr 22, 2003, 09:07 PM

There will be no 970 in a PowerBook this year. We have no firm proof that there will be a 970 in anything Apple at all, much less this year. Not to mention the lag time from a new CPU being announced in a desktop to being shipped in a notebook. My guess is 1.2 or 1.25GHz G4 is the fastest we will see in a PowerBook this year. My guess is the Al body and the additiion of "new technology" such as Firewire 800 and BlueTooth are the big news for the "year of the..."

</care>

ibookin'

Apr 22, 2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by macdong
I already have a dual 867 PM as my home computer. All I need is a faster mobile computer. the new iBook 14" looks sweet, and it even leaves some space in my pocket to get a new PM with 970 :D

I don't really like the 14". Get the 12" and save even more money. The 12" is a great size, and is plenty fast (I have the 800). Also, the screens on the iBooks are the same resolution (1024x768), and the 14" seems less sharp and defined than the 12".

I am kind of disappointed that the new iBooks have nothing but a 100MHz speed boost and a 60GB hard drive option. I was expecting at least Airport Extreme.

eric_n_dfw

Apr 22, 2003, 09:45 PM

I really am surprised that the built in, non-upgradable, memory is 128MB - even on the 12" PowerBooks! I would have thought they would have at least bumped that to 256MB. Adding a 512MB SODimm puts me at 640MB as a maximum which just barely above the minimum of 512MB that I would want to have.

macdong

Apr 22, 2003, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by ibookin'@mwny
I don't really like the 14". Get the 12" and save even more money. The 12" is a great size, and is plenty fast (I have the 800). Also, the screens on the iBooks are the same resolution (1024x768), and the 14" seems less sharp and defined than the 12".

I am kind of disappointed that the new iBooks have nothing but a 100MHz speed boost and a 60GB hard drive option. I was expecting at least Airport Extreme.

Good idea.
12" it is :D

timbloom

Apr 22, 2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by macrumors12345

So from 800 to 900 you will only see a 10-15% jump for CPU intensive tasks. Even less if the tasks are memory bound (which they might be, since that 100 mhz bus is starting to look pretty anemic there...they really need to switch stuff to the 970 so that they don't have to artificially hold back the bus speeds on the consumer Macs).

I would really like to see a 133 bus on these things before I care about airport extreme or bluetooth. 802.11b is more than maxing out my broadband internet connection, and when I back up, I use firewire disk mode because it is MUCH faster than 802.11g. (btw, I have an ibook 500 right now and an ibook 800/possibly 900 on order, apple gets to decide that since it is a replacement.) I find the only thing truly lacking in the 500 is quartz extreme, because of the major jump in performance it brings along with it.

OTOH:
iBooks are meant for the internet and basic tasks, and people really need to grind this into their head. If apple still sold a 500-600 ibook, with all the same specs as when they were new, that would be even better, since using the older chips would possibly make the ibook even more affordable.

Bottom line is, you get what you pay for! As much as I love the iBook, it is NOT a machine for encoding video, or running complex programs, it does NOT pretend to be or need to be fast, it needs to be affordable! If Apple went against better judgement and added all these bells and whistles, you would have a machine that has the same specs and the same price as the powerbook, giving us something to REALLY be angry about, since we no longer have an affordable laptop for students and entry-level consumers to buy.

Just a couple pennies from my dusty drawer.

Pedro Estarque

Apr 22, 2003, 10:20 PM

Originally posted by Latino
Since I wanted to use the display hack to use my external 19" CRT, the extra 16Mb will be handy.
Latino

Latino,
Dual display is very important for me, but I was afraid that this hack could harm the ibook in some way. I'm even considering buying 12" powerbook mostly because of that ( Altivec and Aluminum case are also nice of course).
Have you tested it? I keep thinking that if it could be done with no problem at all, then why wouldn't apple allow us to?

iJon

Apr 22, 2003, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque
Latino,
I keep thinking that if it could be done with no problem at all, then why wouldn't apple allow us to?
because if you cant do it, then you may buy the 12 inch powerbook

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by macdong
Good idea.
12" it is :D

great choice. it's the largest laptop i would use. my old lombard now seems like a monster.

Pedro Estarque

Apr 22, 2003, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by iJon
because if you cant do it, then you may buy the 12 inch powerbook

Do you really think that's just it?

iJon

Apr 22, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque
Do you really think that's just it?
yeah, thats a big selling point for the powerbook, it can span monitors, ibook cant, what else would you think it would be.

iJon

KingArthur

Apr 22, 2003, 10:51 PM

Yeah, Apple is all about marketing. They want you to buy as much as you can for the most profit to them. Lol. G3/4 cards are "supported" by OS X are they? Well then, why do they work? B/c people find workarounds. The only reason Apple doesn't want those cards to work is b/c if they don't work, you will be more inclined to fork up the money for a new computer. They are a small company and want to pull as big of a profit as possible to keep afloat.

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by KingArthur
want to pull as big of a profit as possible to keep afloat.

unlike every other for-profit company, eh?

yzedf

Apr 22, 2003, 11:12 PM

ah yes... but we pay more knowing apple could cut prices 10% across the board and still make decent money...

as jesse james says "pay up sucker"

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by yzedf
ah yes... but we pay more knowing apple could cut prices 10% across the board and still make decent money...

according to yahoo (http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/aapl.html), apple's profit margin is -0.1%

Pedro Estarque

Apr 22, 2003, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by iJon
yeah, thats a big selling point for the powerbook, it can span monitors, ibook cant, what else would you think it would be.

iJon

I don't know what it could be but some users had issues. Check this from xlr8yourmac (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/ibook_dual_display_mods.html) :

Also note that I have gotten 2 reports from 2002 iBook owners on failures after the mod - so even that model is not a sure thing.)

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 22, 2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by kallur
Has somebody got more accurate information, but it seems to me, that even 12" Combo model is now made of opaque white plastic insteed of crystal white plastic. At least apple online store lists extra battery as opaque white.
???

I just purchased a 12" 900MHz iBook this evening at the Apple Store. I asked the sales girl if they were the grey painted finish or the white plastic. She said it would be painted.

Much to my surprise, the 12" 900MHz is unpainted and the outer casing is not translucent.

I'm kind of disapointed. The fit and finish of this new iBook looks like crap. I called the Apple Store up and they said I could return it for a 800MHz Combo with a $100 discount. I'd be losing 100MHz and 10GB of HD space. I don't know if I should but this iBook really looks cheese with the unpainted finish. Even the hinge is crappy plastic instead of metallic silver.

I always found the iBook the be the most stylish of all the Macs. A shame to degrade the casing across the entire 12" line.

I believe however that the 14" hasn't changed.

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by MrMistyFreeze

Much to my surprise, the 12" 900MHz is unpainted and the outer casing is not translucent. The fit and finish of this new iBook looks like crap. Even the hinge is crappy plastic instead of metallic silver.

can you post some pics?

Pedro Estarque

Apr 22, 2003, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by iJon
yeah, thats a big selling point for the powerbook, it can span monitors, ibook cant, what else would you think it would be.

iJon

A scary quote from the same site:
" Hi,
I've got a 2002 iBook 700 MHz, 384 MB RAM (purchased Aug 2002) with 4.3.6f3 boot ROM. Apple Profiler reports ATY, RageM6, ID 4c59, ROM# 113-xxxxx-125, 16 MB VRAM.

After applying the mod (pretty sure without any typos) the iBook didn't start any more (chime, HD spins up, power off). Getting into OF or zapping NVRAM was impossible.

Apple diagnosed a defective motherboard (!) and exchanged it.
Don't try the mod if you like your iBook - the risk is not worth it!
CU - Chris "

zimv20

Apr 22, 2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque

Apple diagnosed a defective motherboard (!) and exchanged it.

i'd say he should count himself lucky. and then stupid for putting all the info on the internet for apple to find and, possibly, try to get money from him for the repair they did.

reedm007

Apr 23, 2003, 12:09 AM

So what I think is funny is that whenever Apple releases speedbumps (other companies do this as well, mind you), people bitch and moan about how horrible it is, and invariably someone will start posting about getting a win laptop because of it.

Now, what if Appld DIDN'T update the line? Then we'd still have the old models.. The prices didn't go up, we just get more bang for our buck than if we bought iBooks yesterday, right? So how could anyone possibly think this is a bad thing?

Sure it's not a major revamp of a line, but how can we possibly complain every time there's an update without a huge change? Isn't it better to release speedbumps at the same prices more regularly than to wait longer for bigger updates?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Kudos to improved iBooks.

Snowy_River

Apr 23, 2003, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by yzedf
There will be no 970 in a PowerBook this year. We have no firm proof that there will be a 970 in anything Apple at all, much less this year.

I ask again, do you know something that the rest of us don't?

I'm not going to speculate on the likelihood or unlikelihood (is that a word?) of the release of a PB970 in a month, or a year, but I do draw exception to people saying things like this with such certainty. Many of us here are speculating, but that's all we're doing. If you know that there won't be 970PB, care to share the source of your knowledge? Or are you just speculating?

Not to mention the lag time from a new CPU being announced in a desktop to being shipped in a notebook.

There are examples of both delays and side-by-side releases of new chips in PMs and PBs, so I don't think it's as clear cut as this.

My guess is 1.2 or 1.25GHz G4 is the fastest we will see in a PowerBook this year.

There is some reason to believe that there would be significant problems with trying to put G4s of that speed in a portable venue, for reasons relating to heat, if nothing else. (And please don't say '7457' to me. You're saying that we don't have cause to believe that we'll see 970s in anything this year; I'll say the same even more vehemently about the 7457. For now, I wouldn't be surprised if the 7457 never gets produced.)

My guess is the Al body and the additiion of "new technology" such as Firewire 800 and BlueTooth are the big news for the "year of the..."

I don't know. I'd still say that if Apple can produce a 15" 970 PB (to be followed reasonably quickly by the 17" and possibly the 12") it would be in their best interest, even if it is a somewhat crippled 970 based machine, as the first G3 PowerBook (Kanga) was.

Snowy_River

Apr 23, 2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by KingArthur

Also, does anyone else find it interesting that the low-end laptop is actually cheaper than the low end desktop?! I think this is about the first time I have seen this in a company. Well, I guess since Apple's sales are more in the laptops, they have to really push them hard. lol.

How do you figure this?

$999 eMac (low end)
700MHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache @700MHz
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
NVidia GeForce2 MX
32MB DDR video memory
Combo drive
56K internal modem
Airport ready

vs.

$999 iBook (low end)
800MHz PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache @800MHz
128MB SDRAM memory
30GB Ultra ATA drive
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500
32MB DDR video memory
CD-ROM
Built-in 56K v.92 modem
AirPort ready
Up to 5 hr. battery life

Same price, but you get a lot more computer in the low-end desktop.

AllenPSU

Apr 23, 2003, 05:18 AM

It would be nice if Apple would drop the CDROM and replace it with a burner.

Without another way to easily export files, it almost requires you to go to the COMBO drive even if you don't need/want the DVD capability.

pcuserx

Apr 23, 2003, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Same price

Actually in Canada (and I assume some other countries) the price of the iBook has been dropped down by $100.

xDANx

Apr 23, 2003, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by pcuserx
Actually in Canada (and I assume some other countries) the price of the iBook has been dropped down by $100.

the low-end ibook is $50 cheaper than the low-end emac on the canadian website...$1499 vs $1549 CDN. the canadian apple store website hasn't been revamped yet, although the front page now has a little section about the ibook. i imagine they'll get around to changing it eventually...it's usually a bit behind the US website. i kind of like the new layout...

ewinemiller

Apr 23, 2003, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by AllenPSU
It would be nice if Apple would drop the CDROM and replace it with a burner.

Without another way to easily export files, it almost requires you to go to the COMBO drive even if you don't need/want the DVD capability.

I'd actually like to see the opposite. I want a DVD to entertain me on the road, but don't really need to burn on the road. It'd be great if I could a DVD without paying the combo premium. It's a shame Apple doesn't allow just a little more customization. Though with a 60gb drive and I think I read someone saying DVD Player will play off the hard drive, I can probably stuff a few movies there.

StayWhatYouAre

Apr 23, 2003, 07:18 AM

New ibooks are $200 cheaper at the Australian store. Which just about brings them inline with the exchange rate. (be great if apple did this with its whole range)

Though with the education discount they're damb cheap.
= May just have to get one.

StayWhatYouAre

Apr 23, 2003, 07:31 AM

... deleted double post

jamilecrire

Apr 23, 2003, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by zimv20
according to yahoo (http://biz.yahoo.com/p/a/aapl.html), apple's profit margin is -0.1%

I guess that's why they posted a Net Profit of $14 Million (twice the expected amount).

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/030417/earns_apple_1.html

I call BS.

AidenShaw

Apr 23, 2003, 08:09 AM

Originally posted by jamilecrire
I guess that's why they posted a Net Profit of $14 Million

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030417/101/dxzeb.html

However, Apple also received $23 million in interest on its investments during the quarter. Without this it would have posted a $9 million loss.

***T-MC®***

Apr 23, 2003, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
I really am surprised that the built in, non-upgradable, memory is 128MB - even on the 12" PowerBooks! I would have thought they would have at least bumped that to 256MB. Adding a 512MB SODimm puts me at 640MB as a maximum which just barely above the minimum of 512MB that I would want to have.

Exactly. Although the 100 Mhz speed bump, combo drive and 10 G hard disk update for the 12" iBook was decent enough, it would have been a GREAT update(given the suffocating processor situation bec of the PBs) if the RAM was AT LEAST 256. Hear us Apple!!! :mad:

***T-MC®***

Apr 23, 2003, 09:04 AM

lmalave

Apr 23, 2003, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
I'd actually like to see the opposite. I want a DVD to entertain me on the road, but don't really need to burn on the road. It'd be great if I could a DVD without paying the combo premium. It's a shame Apple doesn't allow just a little more customization. Though with a 60gb drive and I think I read someone saying DVD Player will play off the hard drive, I can probably stuff a few movies there.

Yeah, Apple used to have a $50 DVD upgrade option on the low-end iBook. They eliminated that when they bumped up the ibooks to the 700/800 Sahara G3s and the Radeon 7500. Their ploy worked, though - I shelled out $1300 for the Combo drive model whereas I woul've only spend $1050 for the DVD-upgraded low-end model had that been an option. I suspect a lot of people who bought the Combo drive model felt the same way I did...

HashPipeK

Apr 23, 2003, 10:06 AM

I bought the CD-ROm drive model but would definetly have liked a DVD only option. I have an IMac i dont need cd burning in my lappy

bokdol

Apr 23, 2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by reedm007
So what I think is funny is that whenever Apple releases speedbumps (other companies do this as well, mind you), people bitch and moan about how horrible it is, and invariably someone will start posting about getting a win laptop because of it.

Now, what if Appld DIDN'T update the line? Then we'd still have the old models.. The prices didn't go up, we just get more bang for our buck than if we bought iBooks yesterday, right? So how could anyone possibly think this is a bad thing?

Sure it's not a major revamp of a line, but how can we possibly complain every time there's an update without a huge change? Isn't it better to release speedbumps at the same prices more regularly than to wait longer for bigger updates?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Kudos to improved iBooks.

it think i would agree with you if the speed bumps would come in shorter regular intervals but they dont. they come in the time of a major upgrade. and the people complain about going to wintel books because wintel books have the newer technology faster buses. faster proc. for cheaper (i know high end is a bit different.) but for the same price as the combo drive 14in. ibook at 900 mhz agp 2x 256 ram. i can get an 2.4 ghz p4 plus agp 4x and combo at 15 inchs. and 384 ram..
now to a regular consumer. what looks better to you.......
i am not mad at apple. i love the speed bumps. but i do agree they should have given us a bit more.
a 1 ghz ibook would have been great.;)

aaronvegh

Apr 23, 2003, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by Perceptes
I need to get a laptop when I leave for college this fall... I like the style/price of the iBooks, but they're just too slow! Mac OS X can barely hold itself together on my G4/466! Nice to see they're upping it a little bit though.

What are you talking about??? I have a G4/466 myself, and it runs 10.2.5 beautifully!

It's true that performance is truly subjective, but I am hard-pressed to believe that you'll find OS X slow on that machine. I have 704 MB RAM; maybe you should consider a memory upgrade before you invest in a new machine...

AppleMatt

Apr 23, 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
I really am surprised that the built in, non-upgradable, memory is 128MB - even on the 12" PowerBooks! I would have thought they would have at least bumped that to 256MB. Adding a 512MB SODimm puts me at 640MB as a maximum which just barely above the minimum of 512MB that I would want to have.

I remember that when 512MB wasn't available as a single card, the maximum used to be 384MB. Could this happen when 1GB/1024MB chips become available? Could the iBook/Powerbook address that much RAM (1152MB)?

AppleMatt

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 23, 2003, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by zimv20
can you post some pics?

these pictures are rather crappy. as you can barely see, the hinge is white (crappy PC mouse plastic) instead of metallic silver and the interior is white (ditto) instead of silver.

also, the interior casing by the A/C port has extra plastic where it wasn't cleanly molded.

http://www.sluteyes.com/back.JPG
http://www.sluteyes.com/front.JPG

yzedf

Apr 23, 2003, 11:58 AM

the white hinge is nicer IMO than the silver. the silver looked out of place. i always correlated silver with the PB series...

the white plastic instead of clear with white paint on the inside isn't as nice looking :(

my guess is that the white plastic is better at NOT showing small scratches than the clear is.

--

regarding apple's earnings, those numbers are for the entire company. building all the new whic bang apple stores is not cheap. and they are not paying themselves off by any stretch. from what i recall, most struggle to break even at the end of the day. when $ in = $ out before taking into account creating the new store... your operational numbers will suck for a while.

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 23, 2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by yzedf
the white hinge is nicer IMO than the silver. the silver looked out of place. i always correlated silver with the PB series...

the white plastic instead of clear with white paint on the inside isn't as nice looking :(

my guess is that the white plastic is better at NOT showing small scratches than the clear is.

My guess is that it is a lot cheaper to produce an unfinished surface.

You can't see it but the white unfinished plastic has little flaw marks all over it actually. There are also a couple of black marks that wont wipe off.

The only benefit I see is that the solid white outer casing would be less likely to show surface marks like the translucent casing does.

This would be cool for a $999 iBook but with AirPort and tax, I paid about $1479 for this setup.

If Apple wants to put out a cheaper finish on its iBooks, that's fine, just knock a $100 off the price and pass the savings along to us.

John_DiMatteo

Apr 23, 2003, 01:01 PM

I have seen many posts comparing this upgrade to the last upgrade. Although, I have not once seen mention of the cashe increase at the last upgrade.

Some posts questioned how apple claimed a 30% performance boost last upgrade. I thought the cashe increase played a major role in this performance boost.

In truth, I know close to nothing about cashe. (I am not even sure if I am spelling it correctly.) Could someone explain how cashe effects performance?

evilsprung

Apr 23, 2003, 01:17 PM

All you guys whining about RAM issues, IMO, i think you guys are making a big deal out of nothing. The 12" isn't intended for performance. If you wanted that go buy desktop replacing 17", or the 15". I can understand maybe the grip about the 14" iBook, but even still I think Apple intended to have those notebooks be their versions of ultraslims, and the point usually with ultraslims isnt really performance, its portability. Just my two cents. And if i sound like I'm flaming, I'm sorry if i do, but I'm not.

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 23, 2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by John_DiMatteo
I have seen many posts comparing this upgrade to the last upgrade. Although, I have not once seen mention of the cashe increase at the last upgrade.

Some posts questioned how apple claimed a 30% performance boost last upgrade. I thought the cashe increase played a major role in this performance boost.

In truth, I know close to nothing about cashe. (I am not even sure if I am spelling it correctly.) Could someone explain how cashe effects performance?

The G3 has always had 512K of L2 Cache. Basically this is 512K of memory on the processor running at full speed. Programs can offset specific instructions to this memory and benefit from it greatly.

The G3 is an awesome processor and can best a lowend G4 (256K L2 cache, no L3 cache) at the same speed on non AltiVec operations. AltiVec is an instruction set that programs can take advantage of to increase performance. The G3 is lacking AltiVec.

Another thing that makes the G3 shine in portables is its lack of heat due to low power consumption. iBooks have far superior battery performance compared to PowerBooks.

John_DiMatteo

Apr 23, 2003, 01:43 PM

I have stated that there was an increase in L2 cashe in the iBook and, based on Apple's press releases, it seems that I am correct.

When Apple introduced the 14 inch iBook, all of the iBooks had 256 L2 cashe. Apple states this in this press release. (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jan/07ibook.html)

Could someone please tell me how much a change from 256 to 512 cashe effects performance?

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 23, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by John_DiMatteo
I have stated that there was an increase in L2 cashe in the iBook and, based on Apple's press releases, it seems that I am correct.

When Apple introduced the 14 inch iBook, all of the iBooks had 256 L2 cashe. Apple states this in this press release. (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jan/07ibook.html)

Could someone please tell me how much a change from 256 to 512 cashe effects performance?

My mistake, the 300-466MHz iBooks have 512K L2 cache. The 500-600MHz before May 2002 have 256K L2 cache. The 600-900MHz iBooks after May 2002 have 512K L2 cache again! I have only owned the the first and the latter and didn't realize it had changed in the middle.

In any case, cache, despite its small size is important. Doubling the cache will likely provide signficant performance gains. I know that the lack of L3 cache in the G4 seriously hinders performance.

zimv20

Apr 23, 2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by MrMistyFreeze
these pictures are rather crappy. as you can barely see, the hinge is white (crappy PC mouse plastic) instead of metallic silver and the interior is white (ditto) instead of silver.

thanks for posting them. it's kinda hard to see the differences from the pics; i'll have to go see them in person.

if you're thinking of returning it for the old 800 MHz ibook, i'd support that. that's the one i've got and it's great.

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 23, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by zimv20
thanks for posting them. it's kinda hard to see the differences from the pics; i'll have to go see them in person.

if you're thinking of returning it for the old 800 MHz ibook, i'd support that. that's the one i've got and it's great.

Here is a better picture from ZDNet Japan showing the unpainted and painted iBooks side by side. The difference is very noticable.

http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0211/08/books.jpg

yzedf

Apr 23, 2003, 02:34 PM

http://www.globalatlanta.com/cache.html

L1 cache is always on the cpu.

L2 / L3 can be off or on the cpu. Can run at core speed, or at a divisor speed (1/2 or 1/4 etc).

ericthemacpope

Apr 23, 2003, 07:32 PM

hey, my brother is going to college next year and we are getting him a portable. he is majoring in film and music, should we get him a 12 inch powerbook, or the updated ibook 14 inch? he wants a to hook up a an old portable monitor at his dorm. which one?
eric

yzedf

Apr 23, 2003, 07:51 PM

12" PB will prolly be the better choice for the long term.

smaller / faster (G4) / BT / better ext monitor support...

downside is the extra $$$ of course ;)

Kwyjibo

Apr 23, 2003, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by ericthemacpope
hey, my brother is going to college next year and we are getting him a portable. he is majoring in film and music, should we get him a 12 inch powerbook, or the updated ibook 14 inch? he wants a to hook up a an old portable monitor at his dorm. which one?
eric

i would let him pick, i always get mad when ppl buy big things like this for me.

Kwyjibo

Apr 23, 2003, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque
Latino,
Dual display is very important for me, but I was afraid that this hack could harm the ibook in some way. I'm even considering buying 12" powerbook mostly because of that ( Altivec and Aluminum case are also nice of course).
Have you tested it? I keep thinking that if it could be done with no problem at all, then why wouldn't apple allow us to?

the hack worked fine on my ibook the 800mhz nov 6 model. i've had nothing but enjoyment from the large working space. I think you guys are overlooking the simplicity of this mod. The hardware supports it and if you have a problem all you need to do is zap your pram and its gone. I really don't think the monitor spanning thing shoudl be an issue when decided between the machines. I know the pb has a better vid card but the ibook's works well.

Rincewind42

Apr 23, 2003, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by ericthemacpope
hey, my brother is going to college next year and we are getting him a portable. he is majoring in film and music, should we get him a 12 inch powerbook, or the updated ibook 14 inch? he wants a to hook up a an old portable monitor at his dorm. which one?
eric

Unless he'll be content with simply mirroring the display, you should get him the 12" Powerbook. He'll probably appreciate the G4 too

ericthemacpope

Apr 23, 2003, 09:11 PM

well, he won't know what to choose, he is a musician, he doesn't know much about computers, he likes things to work. lol, alright I'll see what likes more.
eric

topicolo

Apr 23, 2003, 11:57 PM

Impressive.

Another 100Mhz increase in only 6 months!

At this rate, the ibooks will reach 2Ghz in about 5 and a half years. Whoopie!

*yawn*

snorkeller1

Apr 24, 2003, 04:31 AM

The iBook's dent-proof/warp-free tough outer shell and rubber-mounted hard-drives have made them the most rugged of Macs.

However, without built-in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme it's users will remain crawling foot-soldiers rather than speedy road-warriors.

C'mon Apple !! Put in these essentials, at least in the fastest models. This was going to be the Year of the Laptop, not Craptop.

yzedf

Apr 24, 2003, 12:58 PM

Craptop

lol

iJon

Apr 24, 2003, 06:20 PM

well from what ive read and people ive talked to the new ibooks dont boot into 9, any one hear beg to differ who have purchased.

iJon

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 24, 2003, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by iJon
well from what ive read and people ive talked to the new ibooks dont boot into 9, any one hear beg to differ who have purchased.

iJon

They boot into OS 9 just fine and come with the same restore discs that the November version did except now with 10.2.4 instead of 10.2.1. I say this because I was hoping to find Apple replace the four iBook restore discs with one DVD like they have with the new PBooks.

No iLife but Office X demo is now installed.

iJon

Apr 24, 2003, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by MrMistyFreeze
They boot into OS 9 just fine and come with the same restore discs that the November version did except now with 10.2.4 instead of 10.2.1. No iLife but Office X demo is now installed.
thanks for the confirmation,just wanted to make sure from someone who has bought one. thats odd since the boxes say just os x

iJon

reflex

Apr 25, 2003, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by MrMistyFreeze
I say this because I was hoping to find Apple replace the four iBook restore discs with one DVD like they have with the new PBooks.

Unlikely as long as the low-end model still has a cdrom. Mind you, I was hoping for at least a dvd reader on all models.

Abstract

Apr 25, 2003, 03:00 AM

They have changed the case of the iBook back to the opaque white shell, much like the low-end 700MHz CD-ROM model from before the update, correct? Its uglier, but is it a good change or a bad change? :confused:

MrMistyFreeze

Apr 25, 2003, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by Abstract
They have changed the case of the iBook back to the opaque white shell, much like the low-end 700MHz CD-ROM model from before the update, correct? Its uglier, but is it a good change or a bad change? :confused:

I wouldn't necessarily say it's bad but it makes the 12" iBook look a lot cheaper.

Considering Apple is likely saving considerable money by not painting the interior and exterior casing, it would be nice to see them pass the savings along to their customers.

bradz_id

Apr 25, 2003, 05:45 AM

I am so annoyed there is no AirPort Extreme. Everyone go here to sign a petition for it. http://www.petitiononline.com/ibookxtr/

iJon

Apr 25, 2003, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by bradz_id
I am so annoyed there is no AirPort Extreme. Everyone go here to sign a petition for it. http://www.petitiononline.com/ibookxtr/
give up, why do you care so much, airport extreme isnt much better than regular airport, these petitions are the dumbest things people can do, i thought people had stopped the petetions on this site, get a powerbook if you want airport extreme.

iJon

DakotaGuy

Apr 25, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by MrMistyFreeze
My mistake, the 300-466MHz iBooks have 512K L2 cache. The 500-600MHz before May 2002 have 256K L2 cache. The 600-900MHz iBooks after May 2002 have 512K L2 cache again! I have only owned the the first and the latter and didn't realize it had changed in the middle.

In any case, cache, despite its small size is important. Doubling the cache will likely provide signficant performance gains. I know that the lack of L3 cache in the G4 seriously hinders performance.

Okay this whole deal on the L2 cache on the G3 is bothering me, because there is some misunderstanding...

The orginal iBooks and iMacs for that matter, did have 512K L2 cache, the BIG difference is that this was "backside cache" which runs slower then the processor. It will net about 1/2 of true speed, depending on the Mhz of the processor.

The next series of G3's 750cx, had 256K of L2 "on-chip" cache running at full processor speed, the same as the current G4's have. The reason the cache was reduced from 512K to 256K is because going to am "on-chip" arrangement actually offered more speed with less memory.

The current G3 (750fx) is 512K "on-chip" cache, running at full processor speed, "800 or 900Mhz" This is very fast and should help performance.

If I am wrong about this...please correct me since I am not an expert. I know my iMac (G3 750) has 512K "backside" cache and my iBook (G3 750cx) has 256K "on-chip" I think "on-chip" design is much better and much faster. Someone who knows more about this can comment...

snorkeller1

Apr 26, 2003, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by iJon
give up, why do you care so much, airport extreme isnt much better than regular airport, these petitions are the dumbest things people can do, i thought people had stopped the petetions on this site, get a powerbook if you want airport extreme.

iJon

One might as well say that Apple's pioneering the 802.11g wi-fi standard is one of the 'dumbest' things it's ever done.

Care to clarify?

Not everyone finds metal-clad laptops exciting; try taking a dented/warped metal-cased laptop to a panel-beating shop and see how far you get. JMHO