Core 2 Duo MacBook Also Supporting 802.11n?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Continuing a recent trend, Apple appears to have included another draft 802.11n-compatible wireless card in their recently released Core 2 Duo based MacBook computers (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/11/20061108083511.shtml). According to ThinkSecret, the wireless chipset is the Atheros AR5008E (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0611macbook80211n.html), apparently the same series (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/10/20061026001358.shtml) as is in the Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros. Apple first introduced draft 802.11n compliant chipsets (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060924194334.shtml) with the Core 2 Duo iMac, however the iMac uses a Broadcom chipset.

Apple has yet to release any Mac OS X drivers to allow the full speed of the devices to be realized. It is currently thought (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060912203324.shtml) that Apple's iTV will employ 802.11n.

[Eidorian]

Nice to see the 802.11n cards in there. I just hope the standard doesn't change that much.

[Josias]

Though the N card won't run at full speed until Apple makes a firmware update, will they still have the range capabilities that N sports, or will they have normal 802.11g range?

[AndyM]

Might it just be that chipsets that support just G and no type of N are not as available or offer no cost advantage?

[Eidorian]

Though the N card won't run at full speed until Apple makes a firmware update, will they still have the range capabilities that N sports, or will they have normal 802.11g range?Nope, you need full N hardware. (Cards & router)

Might it just be that chipsets that support just G and no type of N are not as available or offer no cost advantage?It's likely.

[dashiel]

this is so apple can release iTV in Q1 of next year. jobs will say something like:

oh there is one more thing, we've got HD in itunes now. of course HD takes up a lot of bandwidth so iTV ships with 802.11n draft. we'll be selling an adapter for those of you with older macs, but for anyone who bought a mac in the last 6 months -- you've already got it.

[Multimedia]

Leopard will probably unleash the real capability in this hardware with a firmware update as well.

[Eidorian]

Leopard will probably unleash the real capability in this hardware with a firmware update as well.Now that is interesting.

[theheyes]

Does anyone know if Apple actually plans to enable these in the future with an update or are they simply just the card theyre using these days?

[Josias]

Allright, so when I get the next AirPort Basestation with N, will I be able to recieve better signal with my G-only CD MacBook?

[AppliedVisual]

Might it just be that chipsets that support just G and no type of N are not as available or offer no cost advantage?

The changes within the chipsets to support "n" are very minimal and the new chips are readily available for about the same price as their a/b/g only counterparts. It makes sense for Apple to put them in - if everything goes OK and 802.11n is ratified without too many changes from its current form, then all the C2D Mac systems can take advantage of it. If for some reason "n" takes longer and goes through more dramatic changes (which is somewhat doubtful), then nothing is really lost.

[sartinsauce]

this is so apple can release iTV in Q1 of next year. jobs will say something like:

oh there is one more thing, we've got HD in itunes now. of course HD takes up a lot of bandwidth so iTV ships with 802.11n draft. we'll be selling an adapter for those of you with older macs, but for anyone who bought a mac in the last 6 months -- you've already got it.

That's a nice idea. Do you think that the MWSF Keynote will also include a product that vastly increases everyone's ISP bandwidth? Or will we have to spend a day and a half downloading bad movies in HiDef?

[Eidorian]

Allright, so when I get the next AirPort Basestation with N, will I be able to recieve better signal with my G-only CD MacBook?No, you'll still need an 'n' wireless card.

The changes within the chipsets to support "n" are very minimal and the new chips are readily available for about the same price as their a/b/g only counterparts. It makes sense for Apple to put them in - if everything goes OK and 802.11n is ratified without too many changes from its current form, then all the C2D Mac systems can take advantage of it. If for some reason "n" takes longer and goes through more dramatic changes (which is somewhat doubtful), then nothing is really lost.I have to agree here. Just as long as no drastic changes are made. :rolleyes:

That's a nice idea. Do you think that the MWSF Keynote will also include a product that vastly increases everyone's ISP bandwidth? Or will we have to spend a day and a half downloading bad movies in HiDef?Apple will make your tubes faster how? XD

[Squonk]

There are going to be a lot of happy people when Apple enables these cards along with new routers and iTV. Wahoo!:)

[matthemercyless]

This was pretty much expected, but good to know, as it does raise another couple of questions...when will the mac mini be upgraded to the draft N spec, and will it also be bumped to C2D

Will we see a new airtunes device and a new airport extreme base station to take advantage of the new technology?

I would expect it may be a good move to upgade the mini before the holiday season, and introduce new airport type products in January.

Sound reasonable enough?

[AndyM]

The changes within the chipsets to support "n" are very minimal and the new chips are readily available for about the same price as their a/b/g only counterparts. It makes sense for Apple to put them in - if everything goes OK and 802.11n is ratified without too many changes from its current form, then all the C2D Mac systems can take advantage of it. If for some reason "n" takes longer and goes through more dramatic changes (which is somewhat doubtful), then nothing is really lost.

My point exactly.

Now let the hundreds of posts about how Apple secretly plans to enable N for all the users!

[AppliedVisual]

That's a nice idea. Do you think that the MWSF Keynote will also include a product that vastly increases everyone's ISP bandwidth? Or will we have to spend a day and a half downloading bad movies in HiDef?

Increasing bandwidth of peoples' net connections is between the people and their ISPs. Nothing Apple can really do... For those of us with good internet connections, I say bring on the HD! And for those who are still stuck with crappy internet, all I can say is that I feel for you, really I do... I was stuck with no broadband (other than overpriced and crappy satellite service) until I moved about 8 months ago. But now my 8Mbps connection can download HD content just fine and it costs me less than $30/month. :D

[Josias]

Eidorian: Since the base station will have better range, and will be backwards compatible, I know it won't give me same range and speed as with a N card, but since the N base will broadcast better than a G base, won't I get a better range anyway?

[sartinsauce]

Increasing bandwidth of peoples' net connections is between the people and their ISPs. Nothing Apple can really do... For those of us with good internet connections, I say bring on the HD! And for those who are still stuck with crappy internet, all I can say is that I feel for you, really I do... I was stuck with no broadband (other than overpriced and crappy satellite service) until I moved about 8 months ago. But now my 8Mbps connection can download HD content just fine and it costs me less than $30/month. :D

Yeah, you guys aren't too good at the sarcasm, are you?

Do you really think I expect Apple to do that?

If so, please sign here __________________ to buy this bridge in Brooklyn for $100...

[powerboy]

Since the base station will have better range, and will be backwards compatible, I know it won't give me same range and speed as with a N card, but since the N base will broadcast better than a G base, won't I get a better range anyway?

Yes. I have a Belkin Pre-N router that I use with computers with G cards and the range is much better than the G routers I have used. Of course, using N cards would certainly improve the range even more.

[Fredou51]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Apple first introduced draft 802.11n compliant chipsets (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/09/20060924194334.shtml) with the Core 2 Duo iMac, however the iMac uses a Broadcom chipset.


I thought the first Mac to have a 802.11n compliant chipset was the Mac Pro?

Frederic

[Eidorian]

Eidorian: Since the base station will have better range, and will be backwards compatible, I know it won't give me same range and speed as with a N card, but since the N base will broadcast better than a G base, won't I get a better range anyway?NO, you're STILL going to need a N card in your laptop. Depending on how N turns out it might not even operate on the same frequency as G.

[Josias]

I thought the first Mac to have a 802.11n compliant chipset was the Mac Pro?

Frederic

No, there have been no such reports, but it will be easy to upgrade to an N card I should believe.;)

BTW, you have my dream MacPro:D

[Daringescape]

So, I have a pre-N router right now. Will I see any advantages with this card as the macbook is configured currently?

[imacintel]

Now that is interesting.

Know what else is interesting? Your short annoying posts. :rolleyes:


;)

[dernhelm]

No, you'll still need an 'n' wireless card.
Apple will make your tubes faster how? XD

It ships with iDrano. :D

[Peace]

So, I have a pre-N router right now. Will I see any advantages with this card as the macbook is configured currently?

It's possible you might see a small difference but until there's a firmware update for the card there really isn't much difference since Apple's driver is using 802.11g.

Soon as the iTV comes out there will be a flurry of firmware updates for all of the C2D Macs.

[GFLPraxis]

Yet another reason my 1.5 month old CD MacBook is obsolete. Oh well, I still love it.

[Westside guy]

NO, you're STILL going to need a N card in your laptop. Depending on how N turns out it might not even operate on the same frequency as G.

I believe 802.11N is supposed to be backward compatible with B and G - but it may need to cover more than one frequency range to accomplish this.

http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;519260321;fp;256;fpid;319049444

[thejadedmonkey]

this is so apple can release iTV in Q1 of next year. jobs will say something like:

oh there is one more thing, we've got HD in itunes now. of course HD takes up a lot of bandwidth so iTV ships with 802.11n draft. we'll be selling an adapter for those of you with older macs, but for anyone who bought a mac in the last 6 months -- you've already got it.

Also, now apple can say all C2D macs are N compatable.

I'll bet they aren't updating the mini so people won't be able to use any newer ones instead of an iTV..or something.

So in other news, besides a backlit keyboard and dedicated GPU, why should I get a MBP over a MB?

[Eidorian]

I believe 802.11N is supposed to be backward compatible with B and G - but it may need to cover more than one frequency range to accomplish this.

http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;519260321;fp;256;fpid;319049444I'll agree with backwards compatible. I'm still unsure where 802.11n is going to end up for frequency.

[dernhelm]

NO, you're STILL going to need a N card in your laptop. Depending on how N turns out it might not even operate on the same frequency as G.

N will be backward compatible with B and G. There's too much at steak to leave that as a hole. I know these N committees have been acting like Dilbert managers over this whole thing, but not even they are that stupid.

[twoodcc]

Nice to see the 802.11n cards in there. I just hope the standard doesn't change that much.

agreed :cool:

[GFLPraxis]

N will be backward compatible with B and G. There's too much at steak to leave that as a hole. I know these N committees have been acting like Dilbert managers over this whole thing, but not even they are that stupid.

Mmmm, steak.

[Eidorian]

N will be backward compatible with B and G. There's too much at steak to leave that as a hole. I know these N committees have been acting like Dilbert managers over this whole thing, but not even they are that stupid.Delicious steak! I must eat it.

There's nothing preventing backwards compatibility with older standards. Just slap on an A/B/G antenna and chips.

Mmm...chips!

[Cockroach]

My prediction:

When Apple bring out the 'iTV', it will come with a 'new technology' - AirPort Faster or something. Apple will say yeah, all Core 2 Duo Macs have AirPort Faster. They won't mention it being 802.11n.

When the final draft is made, apple will say "All Core 2 Duo Macs have 802.11n", but if it is incompatible, it will continue to be Apple's own technology.

Oh and the Mac Mini doesn't need to be updated because it sits right next to the iTV and can use gigabit ethernet. (It will be though.)

[Chef Medeski]

My prediction:

When Apple bring out the 'iTV', it will come with a 'new technology' - AirPort Faster or something. Apple will say yeah, all Core 2 Duo Macs have AirPort Faster. They won't mention it being 802.11n.

When the final draft is made, apple will say "All Core 2 Duo Macs have 802.11n", but if it is incompatible, it will continue to be Apple's own technology.

Oh and the Mac Mini doesn't need to be updated because it sits right next to the iTV and can use gigabit ethernet. (It will be though.)

Oh yeah perfect. Then every network I want to connect too... I'll have to merely use G. Oh yeah.... I'd love that. Stupid move for Apple fit they did that. The could do that only temporarily until they came out with N equipment.

[Praeliber]

So in other news, besides a backlit keyboard and dedicated GPU, why should I get a MBP over a MB?


For the same reason you can buy a cadillac over a chevrolet. Bigger, better built, luxury etc...

Bigger screen (if you want it) and best resolution
Alu case - the luxury touch that has all that pro look
FW800 and express slot
GPU and backlit keyboard (as you mention) but also more processor speed, more ram and hd on stock order (sure, you can max out a macbook ; you can also order leather seats on a chevy !)
Attention to the details (look how the ports are circled)
a little bit thinner
And an iSight with a green light masked in the case


Some people won't even think about a cadillac, others won't settle for less.

I, myself, think a chevrolet will do the job very well for me ;)

It depends of what you want and what you need

[andrew050703]

When the final draft is made, apple will say "All Core 2 Duo Macs have 802.11n", but if it is incompatible, it will continue to be Apple's own technology.


so any ideas what speed 802.11n will be? or more pertinantly, what speed are the apple chips capable of?

[Reverend Wally]

Eidorian: Since the base station will have better range, and will be backwards compatible, I know it won't give me same range and speed as with a N card, but since the N base will broadcast better than a G base, won't I get a better range anyway?

I am using a Netgear WRN834T "n" router with gigabit ethernet and a 108Mbs wireless card in my present PC laptop, and I definitely noticed a drastic improvement in router performance and speed and multitasking with the "n" router.

That is MY experience with it.

[AppliedVisual]

So in other news, besides a backlit keyboard and dedicated GPU, why should I get a MBP over a MB?

Bigger screen
ExpressCard slot
FW800
Full size DVI-I port that is dual-link capable for using 30" displays.

....Well, I would say the bigger screen and dedicated graphics are the two biggest reasons. For me, I just needed a lot of the features like the FW800, dedicated graphics and the dual-link DVI. It all comes down to what you need and can live with in terms of price and portability. IMO, the 15" MBP is hardly enough bigger in terms of size/weight to really be a portability issue vs. the Macbook. But there's a lot of people that think that extra 0.75lbs and 1" horizontal, 1/2" vertical make all the difference.

[lOUDsCREAMEr]

what i care: can i swap the built in Airport Express Card of my iBook G4 with th yet-to-be-released 802.11n Airport Card?

i jus upgraded my wireless router from 802.11b to 802.11g!!

[wildmac]

Bigger screen
ExpressCard slot
FW800
Full size DVI-I port that is dual-link capable for using 30" displays.

....Well, I would say the bigger screen and dedicated graphics are the two biggest reasons. For me, I just needed a lot of the features like the FW800, dedicated graphics and the dual-link DVI. It all comes down to what you need and can live with in terms of price and portability. IMO, the 15" MBP is hardly enough bigger in terms of size/weight to really be a portability issue vs. the Macbook. But there's a lot of people that think that extra 0.75lbs and 1" horizontal, 1/2" vertical make all the difference.

And you'll pay about $650 more, when spec both at 2GB/160GB, and factor in the higher cost of AppleCare on the MBP vs the MB.

[AppliedVisual]

And you'll pay about $650 more, when spec both at 2GB/160GB, and factor in the higher cost of AppleCare on the MBP vs the MB.

True, but if you need the extra features, then I guess you spend the money. Like I said, it's whatever you can live with in terms of price and other features.

[RedTomato]

Yeah, you guys aren't too good at the sarcasm, are you?

Do you really think I expect Apple to do that?

If so, please sign here __________________ to buy this bridge in Brooklyn for $100...

OK, I signed it with a permanent marker on my screen, how much is the postage to the UK please?

cheers T

PS how do I get this ink off my screen? It doesnt seem to want to wash off:confused: :confused:

[Cockroach]

Oh yeah perfect. Then every network I want to connect too... I'll have to merely use G. Oh yeah.... I'd love that. Stupid move for Apple fit they did that. The could do that only temporarily until they came out with N equipment.

What I'm saying is Apple won't advertise it to be compatible with pre-n equipment, but will use their own term (for new AirPort and iTV). Saying you can connect to them at higher speeds. Seeing as how their new technology IS pre-n it will be able to connect to 3rd party routers etc. When there is a final draft they will advertise it as such. I just don't see them advertising as 'pre-n'.
/
Speeds should be up to 540Mb/s but typically 200Mb/s. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#802.11n))

[MoTo777]

NO, you're STILL going to need a N card in your laptop. Depending on how N turns out it might not even operate on the same frequency as G.

I can DEFINITIVELY state that buying one of the current crop of pre-N routers from a reputable company will give longer range EVEN if you have a G-card in your laptop. (It may not be as good as what you would get with an N-card, but it will almost certainly be better than what you have going now.)

I have experienced this myself, as have many others.

[ironring2006]

What I'm saying is Apple won't advertise it to be compatible with pre-n equipment, but will use their own term (for new AirPort and iTV). Saying you can connect to them at higher speeds. Seeing as how their new technology IS pre-n it will be able to connect to 3rd party routers etc. When there is a final draft they will advertise it as such. I just don't see them advertising as 'pre-n'.
/
Speeds should be up to 540Mb/s but typically 200Mb/s. (Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#802.11n))
I agree that this is the route that Apple is going to take, and why not? I doubt they will advertise it as Pre-n, just advertise it as being faster when connected to a new AirPort base station. It means they'll sell more AirPorts instead of people going out and getting a 3rd party router that they can't guarantee will work. Apple is all about simplifying the user experience, so if you have a Mac with the new wireless chips, you'll be able to get those faster speeds in your own home network. As far as connecting to other networks, it'll probably be a while before any public hotspots move to n, simply because b/g are good enough for the free access, so you're not going to miss out.

[NightStorm]

Does anyone know of a particular pre-n router that would be compatible with these chipsets if/when Apple decides to enable these chips? My Linksys WRT54G is dying and I need to pick something up and wont be able to wait around for Apple to update the Airport base stations, but want to be able to take advantage of n-speeds with the iTV.

[wildmac]

Everyone should remember that your network will only run at the speed of the slowest device on the network, so if your new laptop is a pre-N, you go out and buy a pre-N router, but you have something else running on B, it will slow down everything to that speed. So, while finding a pre-N router might be nice, make sure it will work for you.

[Josias]

For the same reason you can buy a cadillac over a chevrolet. Bigger, better built, luxury etc...

Bigger screen (if you want it) and best resolution
Alu case - the luxury touch that has all that pro look
FW800 and express slot
GPU and backlit keyboard (as you mention) but also more processor speed, more ram and hd on stock order (sure, you can max out a macbook ; you can also order leather seats on a chevy !)
Attention to the details (look how the ports are circled)
a little bit thinner
And an iSight with a green light masked in the case


Some people won't even think about a cadillac, others won't settle for less.

I, myself, think a chevrolet will do the job very well for me ;)

It depends of what you want and what you need

*cough-cough*

don't forget that the MBP iSight has double the res. of the MB.;)

Also, the MBP has an option for matte sreens if you prefer those.

Advantages that the MB has over the MBP:
Cheaper
Smaller foorprint
Longer battery
Longer AirPort range (this is only marginally longer since they put that rubber thing in the MBP hinge)
MagLatch and different keyboard (if you like these)
Smaller poweradapter

Anything else about the MBP is better.:)