ppc 970 15" powerbook ??

[phantommaul]

hi my question is really simple and i wonder your predictions on that. when we wil expect a powerbook 15" with ppc 970 precessors.

my prediction is mid 2004 or the begining of 2004 because apple said this will be the year of the notebook so maybe they will launch the portable products before the desktop models :))

think different

[Snowy_River]

Uh... I think you meant 'mid 2003 or the begining of 2004', didn't you?

This is a dangerous topic, I'd like to warn you. There are those on this forum that like to bite people's heads off just for suggesting that we might see a 970 based PowerBook before the new year. However, that said...

I think that there are at least reasonably good odds that we'll see a 970 PowerBook at the same time we see the 970 PowerMac. I do think that people here are right that Apple would be foolish to release a PB before a PM based on the 970. And, though the technical information isn't entirely clear on this point, it seems that the current generation of 970 would be capable of placement into a mobile setting.

Then there is the question of why the updated 15" PowerBook has continued to be delayed. There is one rumor source that suggests that initially it was because the 15" was plagued by the same heat issues that the delayed the 17" shipping. But, as IBM continued to progress with the production of the 970 much faster than originally expected, Apple switched gears from fixing the G4 heat problems to ramping up for the 970.

Now, whether of not any of this is true is a matter of speculation. It seems, though, given the current rumored state of the production of the 970 chips, that Apple will be anouncing new 970 based Macs fairly soon. (The WWDC is the favorite for such an announcement, right now). So, if we're going to see 970 based PowerBooks this year, I'd say we'll likely see them there.

[kylos]

Originally posted by Snowy_River

This is a dangerous topic, I'd like to warn you. There are those on this forum that like to bite people's heads off just for suggesting that we might see a 970 based PowerBook before the new year. However, that said...


Hear, hear.

[jeffosx]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Uh... I think you meant 'mid 2003 or the begining of 2004', didn't you?

Now, whether of not any of this is true is a matter of speculation. It seems, though, given the current rumored state of the production of the 970 chips, that Apple will be anouncing new 970 based Macs fairly soon. (The WWDC is the favorite for such an announcement, right now). So, if we're going to see 970 based PowerBooks this year, I'd say we'll likely see them there.

I have read alot of the speculation over this and cant see any reason why getting faster chips into PBs would hurt the PowerMac sales. Its hard to imagine how they would worry about hurting something that is at best stable but really quite low...

That said I would think a scaled back 1-1.2Ghz 970 PB would still be great compared to current models and the powermacs could have duals and higher clock speeds in any case... I would buy one as fast as possible. They would probably be about the same speed as a dual 1.25 GHz and not as fast as a dual 1.42 top end...

The markets are sufficiently different in any case... IMO They did bring out a single 1Ghz powermac and didnt worry too much about the PB, the emac or the iMac ...

back to lurking



;)

[phrancpharmD]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Then there is the question of why the updated 15" PowerBook has continued to be delayed.


sorry, don't know how to paste in a link directly to the site yet, but i saw this on o'grady's earlier this morning. . .

"I spoke to a friend at Apple over Easter and asked him when the 15" PB was going to be updated. Now, he's a close friend and would not lie to me. We've been friends since kindergarden and I trust him 100 percent.

Well apparently, what's holding the Al 15" PB back is that Apple is waiting for ATI. The design is completely done along with marketing. Apparently, Apple wants to put in an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 which won't begin shipping in volume until May.

The Radeon 9600 mobility is a huge step forward from the Radeon 9000 mobility Apple uses today. Apple will heavily promote it when the new 15" is introduced as being the first laptop in the world to have it.

When I asked him how much memory Apple would put, he said 64MB with a 128bit memory path."

for whatever it's worth; i anticipate a 15" powerbook being my first foray into G4 someday, but it will be fine if its a 970 as long as its backwards compatible.

[ftaok]

Originally posted by phrancpharmD
Well apparently, what's holding the Al 15" PB back is that Apple is waiting for ATI. The design is completely done along with marketing. Apparently, Apple wants to put in an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 which won't begin shipping in volume until May.

The Radeon 9600 mobility is a huge step forward from the Radeon 9000 mobility Apple uses today. Apple will heavily promote it when the new 15" is introduced as being the first laptop in the world to have it.

When I asked him how much memory Apple would put, he said 64MB with a 128bit memory path."
I'm not quite convinced on this. Why would Apple go back to ATi for the 15" when it dumped them for nVidia for the 12"/17" PBs? Would they then upgrade the 12" and 17" to include the ATi card?

Doesn't make sense to me. But that doesn't mean a whole lot either.

[phrancpharmD]

Originally posted by ftaok
Why would Apple go back to ATi for the 15" when it dumped them for nVidia

I don't even know the differences between the two different chips, but one of the dudes replying to the article pasted in this (again, sorry it's long, I don't know how to put in hyperlinks directly to the page):

Re: What is Really Holding up the 15-Inch PowerBook
by: Anonymous (IP logged)
4/25/2003 - 6:04:44 AM
reviews Chris Morris, CNN.com, March 2003 "ATI, meanwhile, is touting the future flexibility of the Mobility Radeon 9600. Right now, when mobile users want to upgrade their laptop's graphics capability, it's a relatively easy, but expensive technique: They throw away their laptop and buy a new one. Using a new technology called FlexFit, ATI said it is giving notebook manufacturers the ability to offer consumers upgradable graphics. "If notebook manufacturers decide to take advantage of this capability, it will be a boon for consumers, particularly gamers on the go." Kyle Bennett, HardOCP.com, March 2003 "Still the Mobility Radeon 9600 series that we are looking at today simply blows the competition away." " I can't wait to own one as there will certainly be more gaming in my life because of it." " ATI is again raising the bar for mobile performance and functionality. From the performance benchmarks we have seen firsthand, the laptop just became an even more practical gaming machine and the best idea for LAN parties since caffeine." " Looking at the results for this benchmark, it is hard to believe that these numbers were generated by a mobile part." " In this case, we are seeing extremely good performance from the ATI part when running a benchmark created by NVIDIA. The fact that ATI's latest mobile card can perform so well in their competitor's own benchmark speaks volumes about this card's performance. As a mobile graphics card, it is extremely hard to find an area where this new ATI model fails to excel." Tom's Hardware Guide, March 2003 "Pure notebook power is the catchword at ATI's mobile division." "One thing is already clear: ATI has succeeded in staging a coup with its DirectX 9 capable graphics chip for notebooks. " Matthew Witheiler, Anandtech, March 2003 "The chip should be one fast mobile graphics processor." Duane Pemberton, Gamers Depot.com, March 2003 "[MOBILITY RADEON 9600] clearly kicks ass when you turn on the visual improvements like 4x AA and 8x Anisotropic filtering. From this early look it's easy to conclude that NVIDIA is pretty much sitting on the bench in the game of 3D Graphics - they still can't ship a product and yet keep making product announcements as if they're right around the corner." " After seeing this chip in action it's no wonder why major OEMs are lining up in droves behind it." Chris Tom, AMD Zone.com "In 3DMark2003 scores show the [MOBILITY RADEON] 9600 double that of the Ti4200." " As you can see from these tests the performance of the [MOBILITY RADEON] 9600 looks good." Dr. Jon Peddie, TechWatch, March 31, 2003 "Nvidia...has lost market share and they do not yet have a product that can compete head to head with ATI's mobile products."

[ramiman]

Originally posted by jeffosx
I have read alot of the speculation over this and cant see any reason why getting faster chips into PBs would hurt the PowerMac sales. Its hard to imagine how they would worry about hurting something that is at best stable but really quite low...

That said I would think a scaled back 1-1.2Ghz 970 PB would still be great compared to current models and the powermacs could have duals and higher clock speeds in any case... I would buy one as fast as possible. They would probably be about the same speed as a dual 1.25 GHz and not as fast as a dual 1.42 top end...

The markets are sufficiently different in any case... IMO They did bring out a single 1Ghz powermac and didnt worry too much about the PB, the emac or the iMac ...

back to lurking



;)



I think that this would be the good comparison, but do not foreget people are often talking about dual PPC 970 1,2 ghz in powerbooks. And then this computer will be more powerful then any existing G4. But do not hope too much because i think a dual processor in a laptop generates far too much heat even thought the PPC 970 is a 19 W processor (a 1,2 ghz 0,9 microns). And remember, so far IBM has not chipped the 0,9 micron 1,2 Ghz PPC 970 yet in great amounts to be able to sell them so i think that i would rather hope for this IBM processor in powerbooks in the next macworld expo.

[Grimace]

Think about things economically from Apple's perspective. Why have your most powerful machine be a laptop? Putting 970s in the Powerbook line first will hurt powermac sales.

Powermac sales are terrible right now and aren't getting any better soon. Apple needs the 970 in the powermac to bolster sales and profits.

[cb911]

yeah, i agree that the 970 will probably come out in the PowerMacs at the same time as the PowerBooks. or maybe the PB will come out about 1 month earlier - in keeping with the year of the laptop. i don't think this would hurt the PM much.

the explaination about Apple waiting for the ATI 9600 sounds reasonable, at least it's the best reason for the holdup that i've heard so far. i just hope it's true.:D

[QCassidy352]

How about the Radeon 9000 in to the ibooks when the PB gets 9600?? 'Cause the ibooks got the radeon 7500 when the PBs got the 9000, and the 7500 was what the previous generation of PBs had just been using.

[cb911]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
How about the Radeon 9000 in to the ibooks when the PB gets 9600?? 'Cause the ibooks got the radeon 7500 when the PBs got the 9000, and the 7500 was what the previous generation of PBs had just been using.

putting the 9000 in the iBooks when the PB gets the 9600 seems like that would be too close for differentiation between the Consumer & Pro lines. don't forget that the next iBooks might use a nVIDIA card as well...

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
...I'd like to warn you. There are those on this forum that like to bite people's heads off just for suggesting that we might see a 970 based PowerBook before the new year.

CHOMP!! :D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by ramiman
I think that this would be the good comparison, but do not foreget people are often talking about dual PPC 970 1,2 ghz in powerbooks. And then this computer will be more powerful then any existing G4. But do not hope too much because i think a dual processor in a laptop generates far too much heat even thought the PPC 970 is a 19 W processor (a 1,2 ghz 0,9 microns). And remember, so far IBM has not chipped the 0,9 micron 1,2 Ghz PPC 970 yet in great amounts to be able to sell them so i think that i would rather hope for this IBM processor in powerbooks in the next macworld expo.

Personally, I have never speculated about dual PowerBooks. I think that, while it's possible we might see a dual 17", it's extremely unlikely that we'll see a dual 15" or 12" for the foreseeably future. Even the dual 17" is a ways off. I've only ever been speculating on single processor 970 PowerBooks, as has everyone that I've read.

Also, as a note, the 970 dissipates 19W at the 0.13 micron process, not the 90 nm process, according to everything that I've read. The 90 nm chips should be much cooler than this, and so, should scale up in speed dramatically.

For now, though, the prospects of a 970 PowerBook are fair, IMO. I'd lay even odds either way, at this point. I would say that we can expect the new 15" PowerBook (whether 970 or G4 based) to be released by the WWDC. (For the record, I'd say that the prospects of a 970 based PowerMac are much, much better on the same timeline. I'd really expect to see these two released side-by-side, or just the PowerMac.)

[jeffosx]

Originally posted by Snowy_River


For now, though, the prospects of a 970 PowerBook are fair, IMO. I'd lay even odds either way, at this point. I would say that we can expect the new 15" PowerBook (whether 970 or G4 based) to be released by the WWDC. (For the record, I'd say that the prospects of a 970 based PowerMac are much, much better on the same timeline. I'd really expect to see these two released side-by-side, or just the PowerMac.)

The wait is killing me though and this is also hurting sales to some degree... There will always be something better around the corner but it sucks when your getting close to the next one...

At least apple is getting out of the round CPU house soon :)

[cb911]

so it's agreed then? the new AlBook 15" will be released in May sometime, featuring the ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 and ambient lighting features? COOL!!:D :D

[Sakino]

Originally posted by cb911
so it's agreed then? the new AlBook 15" will be released in May sometime, featuring the ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 and ambient lighting features? COOL!!:D :D


If this is the case then I would think apple would hint at it today, or have a model up. Why? They have this huge deal going on today(Monday) for their new itunes/ipod deal?
Why not just throw in the new 15 incher then :)

May is what 2 days away?

[cb911]

ok, they must be out in late May, or WWDC.

and also, the 28th (Monday) was just for the iPods and music stuff. Apple usually likes to have a steady release of products, so that is why they spread them out as much as they can.

[anthonymoody]

"Think about things economically from Apple's perspective. Why have your most powerful machine be a laptop? Putting 970s in the Powerbook line first will hurt powermac sales. "

Actually, economically your logic is backward. Laptops are both higher priced *and* higher margin products. So if the decision is based on economics only, the answer is clear.

TM

[jeffosx]

Originally posted by anthonymoody
"Think about things economically from Apple's perspective. Why have your most powerful machine be a laptop? Putting 970s in the Powerbook line first will hurt powermac sales. "

Actually, economically your logic is backward. Laptops are both higher priced *and* higher margin products. So if the decision is based on economics only, the answer is clear.

TM

Have to agree with that and also point out that it wouldnt have to be the most powerful machine either if you only put one chip in the PB and 2 in the PM. I dont want a PowerMac because I need a laptop and people that need the ability to custmomise and add components easily dont get PBs either...

Cheers

[geocave]

Originally posted by jeffosx
Have to agree with that and also point out that it wouldnt have to be the most powerful machine either if you only put one chip in the PB and 2 in the PM. I dont want a PowerMac because I need a laptop and people that need the ability to custmomise and add components easily dont get PBs either...

Cheers

One other aspect might be that Apple has recognized that;

A. They sell more notebooks than desktops.
B. Notebooks have a higher margin than desktops.

Apple might decide that although releasing 970 PM's first would stimulate PM sales, releasing the 970 PB first might help them gain market share and significant profits.

[sparks9]

i think mid 2004 is a good bet, this will take longer time than most people expect.

[ftaok]

Originally posted by geocave
One other aspect might be that Apple has recognized that;

A. They sell more notebooks than desktops.
B. Notebooks have a higher margin than desktops.

Apple might decide that although releasing 970 PM's first would stimulate PM sales, releasing the 970 PB first might help them gain market share and significant profits. You could say that, but you'd be wrong. Apple has consistently sold more PowerMacs than PowerBooks for a long time.

Here are some numbers from Apple's Annual Report

EDIT - I couldn't get the thing to paste in right. So here's a link.

Apple 2002 Annual Report (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/021219/aapl10-k.html)

Apple sold 733,000 PowerMacs last year. They sold 357,000 Powerbooks.

[anthonymoody]

But the point remains re: price point AND margins...higher on both counts for notebooks.

TM

[Moe]

I'm with those who don't expect to see the 970 until this time next year, and then perhaps only in PowerMacs, not PowerBooks.

Most gamers on www.sagerforums.com are waiting for the new models with the ATI M10 w/128MB and not buying the current models with the M9 and 128MB.

If Apple is going to stay with ATI on the 15" AlPowerBook (and I hope they do), this is most likely the reason for the delay. Perhaps a new 17"PB w/128MB M10 is in the queue as well.

[cb911]

Apple can't possibly expect just to speed-bump the PowerBook until this time next year, especially with the new 12" and 17" PowerBooks making the TiBook look a bit dated.

even if the next revision of the 15" gives it a Aluminium case, that might just help it continue on for the next few months. the 15" needs a big change, and everyone is expecting that change to be the IBM's PPC 970.

eventually even the 17" will need a radical update... perhaps this is why we keep hearing rumors of dual-processor PowerBooks. if the 970 really isn't coming until this time next year, i think there is a very good chance that we will see a 17" Dual-G4 PowerBook.

[Curiousstrngmint]

Okay so I have this <gulp> toshiba that I bought for college but now am deciding it's too big, heavy, not-mac, etc...but if I sell it I'll only be able to afford the 12". But if the 15" will get a serious upgrade leaving the 12" basically only inches ahead of the iBook, is it worth getting it now, or even by August?

Thankye.

[cb911]

i remember reading that the 12" next revision will be in November, or around that time.

i would definitely say wait until July at least, then you'll be able to see if the 15" is worth the extra, or just get a 12" then.

[jade]

Here is the way I see it, apple will not wait until 2004 to implemment a new chip and upgrade the pbs and pms. If an update does not come before september. If not apple will be DOA and will have a sales slump that will take years to recover from. Right now Apple processers are 1/3 to 1/2 as powerful as PC processors (perceived speed) and it is difficult to justify as a potential buyer paying 2-4 times as much for 1/2 as much power. This simple reality has a huge effect on sales, besides the people on the fence awaiting the next generation Apple computer........ The longer they wait, the more sales will disappear. I am sure Steve Jobs wants to get the new models out ASAP.

[herrmill]

Spotted the new 15" Ai in a coffeeshop in Chatt., TN this weekend. Owner was wearing an Apple polo shirt and said it was getting a lot of attention wherever he was. Same spec as the 17" He would not elaborate on when release will be made but it sure looked cool! :D :D :D

[scifi451]

Is the general conscious that the new Al 15 PB will be out some time in May/June?

[DHagan4755]

Originally posted by herrmill
Spotted the new 15" Ai in a coffeeshop in Chatt., TN this weekend. Owner was wearing an Apple polo shirt and said it was getting a lot of attention wherever he was. Same spec as the 17" He would not elaborate on when release will be made but it sure looked cool! :D :D :D What the...?

[cycle]

dear herrmill :) :) :)

please post every detail u can remember...that would be soooo great

for everyone in america: check this coffeeshop!!! ASAP


what are you waiting for?! :eek: :o

[cb911]

Originally posted by herrmill
Spotted the new 15" Ai in a coffeeshop in Chatt., TN this weekend. Owner was wearing an Apple polo shirt and said it was getting a lot of attention wherever he was. Same spec as the 17" He would not elaborate on when release will be made but it sure looked cool! :D :D :D

dude!! you've gotta post some info on what you saw! :D like did it have any extra ports or anything? well, if it's same spec as the 17" then i guess it'll just be like that.

but are you positive that what you saw was a 15" Al PB? so did it have a colour that looked heaps different or what?! was it the same physical size as the current 15" TiBooks, with just a different case material?:confused:

you gotta let us in on some info!;) :D

[iJon]

yeah, i also saw a guy with the new ipod and 970 powermac at the coffee shop :rolleyes: you gotta think realisticly on this, if this guy had a new powerbook he would have to be special, if he was special enough he would know it wouldnt be allowed in public. a guy in ten. would have it, i doubt that too.

iJon

[herrmill]

It was same brushed aluminum case as new 12" & 17" PB with silver keys & definately was a 15" Ai. Didn't have time to drool over what I saw, but it was 15"with a nice big white Apple on the top! Owner was not specific about how he got the copy but said it was one of 3 that was passed out & was getting a lot of attention whenver he pulled it out. It had a small screen defect but he was not about to turn in back in for fear of not getting it back. I was too rushed to ask about FW 800, but he did say specs were same as 17".

[cycle]

i love u all!! I LOVE U ALL!!!!!

plz steve...do it on tuesday!! its 6 months!!! :) :) :)

i love u!!! :)

[DHagan4755]

Originally posted by herrmill
It was...definately was a 15" Ai.So did the guy who had it say that it indeed was the new 15-in. PowerBook?

[cb911]

hey herrmill, you sound very convinced that it was a 15" Al PB.

have you got a digital camera? if not you had better grab one and start hanging out at that coffee shop heaps a get some photos to convince the rest of us. :D

[DHagan4755]

I'm not quite sure I buy it. First of all, unlike the eMac presently, the PowerBook lists as shipping "same day." Apple usually never releases new products with stock at their online store. Therefore I can't imagine Apple allowing an employee an advanced copy of the new hardware unless its release was imminent. Given the current PowerBook's status at the Apple Store, I think the chances are highly doubtable that this was indeed the much rumored new 15-incher. OTOH, if he were to give us some proof (photos), of course, our minds could be changed.

[zach]

Originally posted by herrmill
Spotted the new 15" Ai in a coffeeshop in Chatt., TN this weekend. Owner was wearing an Apple polo shirt and said it was getting a lot of attention wherever he was. Same spec as the 17" He would not elaborate on when release will be made but it sure looked cool! :D :D :D

Yup, i also saw a guy! he had a new iPullTheseStupidRumorsOutOfMyAssToGetMyPostCountUp shirt on.

[cb911]

this whole PowerPC 970 in the 15" PowerBook thing has gotten way out of hand. now MacBidouille is timelining the whole PPC 970 and saying that the 970 PowerBooks will be released in March 2004.

everyone gets excited because MacBilouille says that 970 machines will be released in May (well, that was a translation error) and now everyone is going to get bummed at the 970 PowerBooks being only rumored for a March 2004 release.

oh well, i'm going to settle down about any 970 rumors from now on.

[DHagan4755]

Herrmill: *Cough* Where are you??!?!?!?!