[PS3] 1080i Issues

[Abulia]

Early reports, if to be believed, show something strange with the PS3 and outputting 1080i over HDMI and component. Such as, it can't.

Several users on NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124597&page=37) are reporting that "Resistance: Fall of Man" refuses to play at 1080i over HDMI or component, instead lowering the resolution to 480p... (Edit: ...if your set doesn't support 720p). :eek:

An Insomniac programmer pops in to say that it isn't a software problem with the game.

No news if this is something that can be fixed via a firmware update or something.

[srobert]

Several users on NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124597&page=37) are reporting that "Resistance: Fall of Man" refuses to play at 1080i over HDMI or component, instead lowering the resolution to 480p... (Edit: ...if your set doesn't support 720p). :eek:

Eek indeed. I hope it can be fixed (firmware?) because they're describing the exact setup I'm planning to use my future PS3 with. I'd like to here if the issue is with this specific game or with all PS3 games 1080i over HDMI/Component. Seems unlikely, they would have noticed that sooner.

[Abulia]

The gist of what I'm reading -- if true -- is that the PS3 doesn't appear to do any scaling? "Resistance" is a 720p native game and if your set doesn't support 720p -- such as the user in question -- it drops the signal to 480p even though you support 1080i.

I'm more than a little confused as what the issue is or if its easily fixable, but it looks like people could be in for quite the shock hooking up their PS3 and being forced to play in 480p.

[Cooknn]

Several users on NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124597&page=37) are reporting that "Resistance: Fall of Man" refuses to play at 1080i over HDMI or component, instead lowering the resolution to 480p...Heh, that would suck... I'll let you know. Will be connecting mine to a 1080i box over component (and optical for sound).

[srobert]

But most 1080i sets support 720p, right? Petty sure mine does. (Works fine with 360) *sigh of relief* I wasn't aware that some 1080i TV weren't also 720p compatible. Might be only a very small percentage of users affected then. Still sad but not widespread.

edit (posts crossed + typos):

Quite a few within the last few years don't support 720p. My last two HD sets (I'm on my third; had HD since 2000) didn't support 720p. So no, not all sets support 720p.

:( Wasn't aware of that.

[Abulia]

But most 1080i sets support 720p, right? Petty sure mind those. (Works fine with 360) I wasn't aware that some 1080i TV weren't 720p compatible.
Quite a few within the last few years don't support 720p. My last two HD sets (I'm on my third; had HD since 2000) didn't support 720p.

So no, not all sets support 720p.

[MacRumorUser]

What? :eek: It doesnt scale, it just outputs the res.. That's shocking and I hope will be corrected with maybe a firmware flash. Heck the 360 has no problem upscaling a 720p image to 1080i or 1080p if it has to.

Hope this is fixed before the European launch

[Cooknn]

My set does 720p, so I guess I'm okay. Would not be happy if it didn't...

[MacRumorUser]

I wonder does this cause problems via component then or just HDMI ?

I'm surprised a set that features HDMI would not have 720p.

[greatdevourer]

Most impressive... How they manage this level of failure, I don't know. I just hope it all gets better before FFXIII :o

[Abulia]

I wonder does this cause problems via component then or just HDMI ?Both apparently.
I'm surprised a set that features HDMI would not have 720p.
Me too, now that you mention it!

[sikkinixx]

they just posted this on IGN too (anyone know why regular IGN is now IGN UK?). Someone messed up big time. I'm still a little surprised that all the testers didn't notice this, both on Sony's side and Game Media side. My uncle will be choked as his TV only does 480i/p and 1080i.

While this doesn't affect me (I have a lovely 720p set) Sony had my money on launch day last week. I was (and still might) wait out in the pissing rain and cold to get one. But I tell ya....I am doubting about being a first adopter. Perhaps I should just by the Wii now (if I can find it) and get the PS3 in January when I stand a better chance of getting one along with some of the kinks worked out.

[Counterfit]

This is part of why HDCP sucks.

[wwooden]

Any CRT style HD tv doesn't/can't do 720p (CRT's can't do progressive). I used to have one and it only supported 1080i HD, and it had an HDMI port.

[sikkinixx]

Any CRT style HD tv doesn't/can't do 720p (CRT's can't do progressive). I used to have one and it only supported 1080i HD, and it had an HDMI port.

my uncle has a 26" Toshiba CRT that does 480i, 480p and 1080i. It has an HDMI like yours did too.

[NKAWTG]

I own a Sony 34XBR960 that displays 480i/p 720p and 1080i. CRTs actually do display and broadcast 720p! :) It also has an HDMI input which I hook up my MacBook Pro up to (DVI to HDMI) and set my settings to output at 720 since it gives a cleaner picture to the TV.

Any CRT style HD tv doesn't/can't do 720p (CRT's can't do progressive). I used to have one and it only supported 1080i HD, and it had an HDMI port.

[clayj]

<refrains from comment>

[darkwing]

Both apparently.

Me too, now that you mention it!

CRT type tvs can't do 720p. At least not the big rear projection ones.

[Cooknn]

CRT type tvs can't do 720p. At least not the big rear projection ones.Mine (http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-50H82-16-HDTV-Ready-Projection/dp/B000066R6G) can :o
50-inch widescreen HD-compatible projection television featuring improved IDSC Pro with 720p capability.
Just not sure yet how I'll set up the PS3 to allow the TV to do its magic...

[NKAWTG]

CRT type tvs can't do 720p. At least not the big rear projection ones.

A CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) is a completely different type of TV than a projection HDTV. There are few CRT HDTVs, but many now are projection LCD or plasma. So, yes, a CRT can display 720p: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KD34XBR960.pdf
This is the link to the user's manual.

[MacRumorUser]

<refrains from comment>


genius... your silence say's it all. :D

[2nyRiggz]

It will be fixed by the time I get my PS3 so meh...;)

I can see now..all the problems the system has now will blow up more than the xbox360...even though the 360 had some serious problems at the start.

Bless

[MacRumorUser]

It will be fixed by the time I get my PS3 so meh...;) Bless

I think thats because 12 months after the 360, they should have been able to nail down most of the faults. hey but at lest its quiet, which is very good + point.

[Jovian9]

My 53" HDTV only does 1080i via component (I've had it for around 5 years now). The 360 and my cable television programming in HD look EXCELLENT on it.
If reports are true with this PS3 issue, then "THE Next Gen System aka PS3" would not be able to even display HD on my HDTV. I would get just as good of graphics on it with a Nintendo Wii for $350 less.

Ouch!

So I suppose it's safe to say that we all should not be waiting for Sony to tell us when next-gen gaming starts :) Not everyone has 1080p or 720p HDTV's.

[MacRumorUser]

So I suppose it's safe to say that we all should not be waiting for Sony to tell us when next-gen gaming starts :) Not everyone has 1080p or 720p HDTV's.

Maybe Sony wants us to all rush out and spend €2500 on a Bravia LCD just to make sure it's compatible... :o

[Jovian9]

Maybe Sony wants us to all rush out and spend €2500 on a Bravia LCD just to make sure it's compatible... :o

Exactly :) Don't forget about buying the HDMI cables too....b/c "HD" is only 1080p through HDMI. And I really don't want to play next-gen gaming unless I get to use decade-old controller designs.

Sorry, can't help but rip the PS3. It's had an extra year to make sure it could come out better than the 360 and yet it most likely isn't. Don't talk sh.. unless you can back it up :)

[takao]

so much for "True HD" :rolleyes:

[clayj]

genius... your silence say's it all. :DWhat's there to say? "Gee, guys... when we said True HD is only 1080p, we thought you understood that we meant that you will either run 1080p or you won't be HD at all if you get a PS3."

The people I feel sorriest for are those who think the PS3 is some kinda Holy Grail of consoles. A lot of them are going to be very disappointed when they shell out $1,000 or more for their system, only to find out it'll only run 480p because their television doesn't do 1080p or 720p.

[Dagless]

So just to be crystal. It runs 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080p?

[clayj]

So just to be crystal. It runs 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080p?I think it will also run 1080i... but it will not upscale a game that's designed for 720p to 1080i (unlike the Xbox 360, which will). So with a PS3, it's actually a lot more important that your TV support as many display modes as possible, especially 720p. It seems to be rather an "all or nothing" proposition.

[Abulia]

I think it will also run 1080i... but it will not upscale a game that's designed for 720p to 1080i (unlike the Xbox 360, which will). So with a PS3, it's actually a lot more important that your TV support as many display modes as possible, especially 720p. It seems to be rather an "all or nothing" proposition.
Pretty much what clayj said.

The PS3 doesn't scale upwards at all, apparently, -- unlike the 360 -- so if a game isn't designed to support a resolution out of the box (like "Resistance" @ 1080i) then the PS3 won't play it. It'll force you into the next lowest resolution, usually 480p.

IGN has confirmed this story with their own demo unit and it is the hardware: Tiger Woods, Resistance, et. al. (the entire launch lineup?) won't run in 1080i.

Wow. :eek:

[MacRumorUser]

IGN has confirmed this story with their own demo unit and it is the hardware: Tiger Woods, Resistance, et. al. (the entire launch lineup?) won't run in 1080i.

Wow. :eek:

super eek. My TV big Philips Ambilight LCD is 1080i highest and it's what I run the 360 on. It does look better than 720p.. That sucks that it wont run at 1080i ? Why on earth have they done that ??

[Abulia]

I'll keep the bad news all in one thread. :)

PS3 attach rate in Japan is...horrible. Currently is at .8 :eek:

Courtesy of Kotaku:

Total Hardware Sales: 81,639 PlayStation 3 60 GB: 45,774 PlayStation 3 20 GB: 35,865

Ridge Racer 7: 21,654
Mobile Suit Gundam: Target In Sight: 21,309
Resistance: Fall of Man: 13,545
Genji: Days of the Blade: 8,766
Sega Golf Club: 1,410

That's a total of 66,684 games sold alongside 81,639 consoles. Meaning at least 14,955 people did not buy any games with their PS3 unit. Who could possibly be happy about this?

[MacRumorUser]

I'll keep the bad news all in one thread. :)

PS3 attach rate in Japan is...horrible. Currently is at .8 :eek:

Courtesy of Kotaku:


EEk indeedy.



More surprising Ridgeeeee Raceerrrrrr 7 outsold R:FOM significantly.

[Abulia]

And for reference:
Since Microsoft is already known to lose a chunk of change with each Xbox 360 it sells, due to the high cost of production, where is the company's higher revenue for the entertainment division coming from? The answer, we learned yesterday, is in "software attach" - the subsidiary purchase that all new console owners make, otherwise the investment is pointless.

The gaming industry's magic number, Microsoft admitted last year, is four - meaning, with every console sold, a manufacturer hopes that the customer will also buy four games. Late last year at Xbox 360's premiere, that number was actually closer to three.

But now, Chris Liddell told investment analysts yesterday, that number is five, and climbing.

If your calculators are still warm: The industry average price for a console video game is $50. With a software attach rate of 5, that makes $250. Retailers make astonishingly little margin from that figure - around 10%. So take $225, of which the manufacturer's gross margin is around 30%. That's $67.50. Multiply that by four million, and you're looking at Microsoft's upcoming holiday season, in which it expects to earn as much as 75% more than it did from entertainment and devices the prior year.
So 360 attach rate, 3:1, PS3 .8:1

[Shadow]

Sony have blown it.

[takao]

yeah i'm pretty sure one of the reasons for this low attach rate is the huge amount of people who just bought it for reselling

it is kinda ridiculous that on such a launch the 2 best selling titles have problem joining the japanese charts at position 9 and 10

[Laslo Panaflex]

All this PS3 hubba balloo is due to Sony WAY over hyping it, like they do with all their products.


Kinda off topic, but this first hand account of the PS3 launch in Japan is a great read for anyone who hasn't read it already.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.php

[Abulia]

Kinda off topic, but this first hand account of the PS3 launch in Japan is a great read for anyone who hasn't read it already.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/foreigners-and-fights-ps3-jpn-launchs-dark-side-214130.phpGood article. There's also a rumor news bit as of today that a Circuit City source is reporting that all 20GB PS3's have been cancelled. They're not getting any of the larger units to makeup for this shortfall.

[MacRumorUser]

Probably now is not a good time to mention that all the reviews of both COD3, Tony Hawks, Need For Speed Carbon, Marvel Ultimate Alliance etc... have all stated that the games are graphically better on the 360 with often higher resolutitons (on games like COD3 which is 1080i/720p on 360 and only 720p on PS3, and yet the PS3 version framerate grinds to a crawl at times) ...

Come on Sony you must have somthing other than R:FOM (outsold by RR in Japan) up your sleeve..

We need some 'good news' especially on the eve of the USA launch... :o

I'll keep my fingers crossed things pickup in 2007, otherwise that Merill Lynch (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=252603) prediction could be too forgiving as it is...

[clayj]

With an attach rate of 0.8, it's obvious that many people in Japan (and possibly in the US) are buying the PS3 for one of two reasons:

1. To resell.
2. To use as a Blu-Ray player.

This is HORRIBLE news for Sony, since they are losing probably $200 or more on each PS3 they sell. Without the game sales to cut into that loss, 4 million PS3s sold = $800M loss. They can't afford that.

[BoyBach]

720p? 1080i? 1080p? 480i? Broadband connection for firmware updates and downloadable content.

And on. And on...

Remember when people bought games consoles so that you didn't have to worry about any of the 'configuration' crap of PC gaming?

Plug the console into your TV and the mains (all supplied in the box with the console), plug in your controller, insert game cartridge or disc and turn the power on!

Simple - the way it's meant to be. Or maybe I'm just getting too old?

[sycho]

This is part of why HDCP sucks.

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with HDCP.

[clayj]

Sorry, but this has nothing to do with HDCP.Yep, that's right. What this has to do with is Sony not designing the PS3 to upscale videogame content if a TV doesn't support the native format of a game. It's not that the PS3 won't work with a 1080i TV set; as far as I know, it will.

I read somewhere earlier this evening that the Xbox 360 has something built into its graphics processor that allows it to scale ANY game content to the resolution of your TV... and it's done in such a way that it doesn't incur any additional work for the system to go from 1080 to 720 or 480 or vice versa.

I am waiting to see what the reaction from the Sony fanboys will be when some of them realize that their PS3s are running at 480p because their TVs don't support 720p.

[Cooknn]

A CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) is a completely different type of TV than a projection HDTV.My 50-inch Toshiba TheaterWide (Projection) HDTV has PowerFocus HD II CRT's, so I guess they're not completely different. Also, I wonder why my 4 year old HDTV is able to do something (display 720p) that newer sets cannot :confused:

[sikkinixx]

this board is quite similar to those who slow down to watch an accident on the side of the road ;)

[pionata]

There is so much antialias and hdr in games anyway that you probably wont notice the difference between 720p and 1080p unless you have a HD computer monitor or a trutly kick ass 3000$ tv.

[Jschultz]

super eek. My TV big Philips Ambilight LCD is 1080i highest and it's what I run the 360 on. It does look better than 720p.. That sucks that it wont run at 1080i ? Why on earth have they done that ??

err..you know that thist TV is a 720p set, right? 1366x768.

I don't believe much in upscaling anyways. blah blah, upscale to 1080i or 1080p never looks as good as true 1080p content on a true 1920x1080 television set.

All 720p sets take 1080i and downconvert, it's just natural. A *GOOD* 1080p set will de-interlace a 1080i signal.

I agree with the one post. Many video games have such good anti-aliasing and rendering that it gets hard in a hurry to differentiate. Some new Sony's also have the Bravia engine PRO which upconverts as well.

EDIT: Also, I have seen very few "1080i" sets. We sell a Hitachi that is 1024x1080. Very, Very strange, and it still isn't that great.

[it5five]

720p? 1080i? 1080p? 480i? Broadband connection for firmware updates and downloadable content.

And on. And on...

Remember when people bought games consoles so that you didn't have to worry about any of the 'configuration' crap of PC gaming?

Plug the console into your TV and the mains (all supplied in the box with the console), plug in your controller, insert game cartridge or disc and turn the power on!

Simple - the way it's meant to be. Or maybe I'm just getting too old?

I'm the same way. A game is a game to me, I don't care about spending extra money to get a slightly better picture.

[Cooknn]

Update: Nothing but problems. I think the PS3 is incompatible with my TV. Just got off the phone with Sony and they want me to take it to Best Buy or somewhere else where I can try it on another HDTV over component. That's the problem. Over the standard AV cable everything is fine, albeit in 480i. Once I switch to component it doesn't matter what resolution I choose I get pink and green horizontal bands moving up my screen. Then it starts to wiggle around and finally it pops out to black. Then back on, but still screwed up.

Life on the bleeding edge I guess. So I suppose I need to go buy a new 1080p HDTV to play Beyond :rolleyes:

[clayj]

Life on the bleeding edge I guess. So I suppose I need to go buy a new 1080p HDTV to play Beyond :rolleyes:Or you could sell that PS3 for a profit and get yourself a 360. ;)

[Cooknn]

Or you could sell that PS3 for a profit and get yourself a 360. ;)Heh. I had one of those. It kept freezing up during gameplay. I think my TV is cursed for Hi-Def gaming. Actually I can't see how that would have been related to the television...

[EDIT] It's the PS3. Just took it to Best Buy and they hooked it up to a $7000 plasma. Same problem :cool:
[EDIT 2] Sony's sending me a brand new unit. Will have it in 3-5 days. That's better than I expected!