iTunes for Windows is Coming

[MacRumors]

Apple has already reported that they would be introducing their Music Download service for Windows later this year... and Forbes has already suggested (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030428174629.shtml) that iTunes is coming to Windows.

As confirmation, Apple has posted a job listing (http://jobsearch.monster.com/getjob.asp?JobID=17792667&AVSDM=2003%2D04%2D29+11%3A47%3A00%2E000&CCD=my%2Emonster%2Ecom&JSD=jobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom&HD=company%2Emonster%2Ecom&AD=http%3A%2F%2Fjobsearch%2Emonster%2Ecom%2Fjobsearch%2Easp%3Fpg%3D1%26q%3DSoftware%2BEngineer%26sor t%3Drv%26tm%3D60d&Logo=1&col=dltci&cy=&brd=1%2C1862%2C1863&lid=&fn=&q=Software+Engineer) on Monster.com for a Senior Software Engineer for iTunes for Windows:


Apple Computer is looking for a Senior Software Engineer to design and build one of our newest Consumer Applications, iTunes for Windows.
Must be possess strong skills in the areas of application design, solid API design principles, user interface engineering, and have a strong understanding of customer and workflow issues. Experience with Windows logo certification preferred. Candidate should have a history of successful large volume consumer product shipment.

[MrMacMan]

haha, I thought they were already MAKING it not hiring...
:eek:
Like they did for AppleWorks for windows... hm... seems fishy...
edit: I come here too much...

[Fredo Viola]

Is it just me, or is it really weird to see a job listing for such a seriously important role at Apple? You'd think Steve had a handful of the most talented in mind. At the same time it's pretty cool to see that it's not closed, that they're looking to see what's out there, see what's fresh and innovative. That's what keeps Apple the great company that it is! They always seek to innovate. And make money, of course, but that's the nature of the beast!

[Kwyjibo]

time for me to apply

[mymemory]

Ok, I think is good that Apple is sharing a little something with the PC side. May be it will end up like some kind of invation to the other side once Apple start translating FCP and the rest of the iAps to Windows.

Now, if in 2 or 3 years from now we are gonna find the same applications for Windows... (and mayyyyyyyyyybe OSX too)....

Why are we still buying a computer that is twice as expensive?

If I can find the same things working as well on booth sides, why should I get a platform that is more expensive?

Of course this is all theory but we are moving foward that way having iTunes for PC.

At list I hope that the ammount of money collected by Apple will compensate the price of the hardware some day.

[Fredo Viola]

I agree about the cost of the computer. Apple's need to go down in price, but I doubt that they will. If you bought a comparable quality pc it wouldn't be so much more expensive, though. Well, between 500 and a grand, which is several iPods!

[iJon]

i think this will be good, its just an mp3 player, so should get all consumer music stuff to the windows people too. apple has become that standard with media with windows and macs with quicktime. they are the standard with windows and macs wth the ipods. now its time for itunes to bust in there and become the standard. i see apple right now being in the music world as windows is in the computer world.... THE STANDARD.

iJon

[Thanatoast]

I think whatever revenue they lose in people not buying a mac to use itunes, they will make up for by having that many more windows users surfing their online music store. ;)

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
Is it just me, or is it really weird to see a job listing for such a seriously important role at Apple?

It's not you, it is really weird.

[scem0]

I've needed iTunes for a long time on this here PC.

One of the things I miss the most about my mac... :(

;)

[mim]

I was under the impression that the way you got employed at apple was to be invited by someone already working there(?). Anyone know for sure?
a.

[Fredo Viola]

Originally posted by iJon
apple has become that standard with media with windows and macs with quicktime.
That's not true, iJon. A lot of people in the animation design world have been steadily shifting to the PC realm, even in the lower end markets. I fight weekly about the benefits of sticking with Apple on the AfterEffects forum. There are still a lot of Mac users, but a great many working on PCs. They actually often prefer Windows Media Player to Quicktime, saying it gets better results. I think you're pretty much right about Quicktime being the present standard, but my point is that things have been and continue to change rapidly away from the Apple standards. It's a little scary.

[arn]

Originally posted by mim
I was under the impression that they way you got employed at apple was to be invited by someone already working there(?). Anyone know for sure?
a.

heh... makes it sound like a cult or a country club. ;)

arn

[iJon]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
That's not true, iJon. A lot of people in the animation design world have been steadily shifting to the PC realm, even in the lower end markets. I fight weekly about the benefits of sticking with Apple on the AfterEffects forum. There are still a lot of Mac users, but a great many working on PCs. They actually often prefer Windows Media Player to Quicktime, saying it gets better results. I think you're pretty much right about Quicktime being the present standard, but my point is that things have been and continue to change rapidly away from the Apple standards. It's a little scary.
yeah i know lots of people use it, but is it better, i mean i see divx and stuff like that but nothign seems to beat quicktime paired with an mpeg4 or mov file. most windows media files i see are bad, but thats probably more the video than the codec.

iJon

[mim]

Originally posted by arn
heh... makes it sound like a cult or a country club. ;)

arn

Or a secret cabal bent on contolling the world through their puppet leaders and media!

lo....
....hold that thought

What is Al Gore doing at Apple exactly?

a.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by mim
Or a secret cabal bent on contolling the world through their puppet leaders and media!

lo....
....hold that thought

What is Al Gore doing at Apple exactly?

a.
he has gov't ties and only Job's Friends get on the board apparently...

It's not supposto be that way but the next 'friend' that steve gets on the board, I'm going to vote against it.

I'll make my apple shares worth something!

[Bear]

Originally posted by mim
I was under the impression that the way you got employed at apple was to be invited by someone already working there(?). Anyone know for sure?
a.
But who working for Apple would admit to knowing someone who was a top notch winblows programmer? :D

[mim]

Originally posted by Bear
But who working for Apple would admit to knowing someone who was a top notch winblows programmer? :D

This indeed is the problem. Imagine the poor guy who pipes up and says "hang on, my BEST friend would be perfect for the job". There's a basement workstation beside the trash compactor that's got that guy's name on it...:D

[szark]

It's not a hoax.

The listing is also posted on Apple's site. (https://jobs.apple.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Employment.woa/31/wo/oy4kyS0sean721BiBtc17Ve7Z0Z/2.2.22.9.2.0.33.3)

[iJon]

Originally posted by MrMacman
he has gov't ties and only Job's Friends get on the board apparently...

It's not supposto be that way but the next 'friend' that steve gets on the board, I'm going to vote against it.

I'll make my apple shares worth something!
i dont think normal stock holder really have say who gets on the bod, but i could be wrong.

iJon

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
I agree about the cost of the computer. Apple's need to go down in price, but I doubt that they will. If you bought a comparable quality pc it wouldn't be so much more expensive, though. !

I think that's the key. iTunes might "not work so well" on some $500 stripper machine.

And, maybe they'll charge for itunes. 29.95, with credit for 25 songs at the apple store.

[Billicus]

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
I think that's the key. iTunes might "not work so well" on some $500 stripper machine.

And, maybe they'll charge for itunes. 29.95, with credit for 25 songs at the apple store.

I'd buy iTunes 4 for my Mac if it came with 25 free downloads! $24.75 is the worth of 25 songs currently and $5.00 for iTunes is not too much to ask. :D

[AllenPSU]

Apple is treading on thin ice. If they are successful they can open up a whole new market but they must be a little worried that the instability of Windows may bite them. I really hope they get someone real good.

[jamilecrire]

However, I don't ever want to work that hard again.

Life of a software developer*:
1) Work butt off in college to make contacts, internships/jobs, real world skills.
2) Get job at big firm/company and work butt off for peanuts, make tons of contacts.
3) Take contract job where you work your butt off but get paid exponentially more than big firm/company job, make more contacts.
4) Start own company with contacts (those with cash). Work butt off like never have before (you only thought you were working your butt off).
5) As business becomes successfull continue to work butt off but at a slower pace (if fail go back to #3).
6) Sell company and enjoy life (if you still know how, investment bankers can never do this).
7) Come to realization happiness is your attitude/choice and has nothing to do with power, success or financial resources.
8) Share the wealth.


* This only applies to democrats, for the republican version see below.

1) Get rich any way possible (ethics be damned).
2) Lie to self that money, power, success actually is happiness
3) Goto #1

[Mr Jobs]

jamilecrire its 3.30am here in the UK and you just gave me a good laugh, thanks man

[macphoria]

This is good news. PC users will now get to taste the ingenuity of Apple first hand!

[iJon]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
Apple is treading on thin ice. If they are successful they can open up a whole new market but they must be a little worried that the instability of Windows may bite them. I really hope they get someone real good.
i wouldn't get to worried, it will probably be windows xp only, and xp is very stable from what ive used, probably as good as os x for me.

iJon

[MacAficionado]

Could this be a way for Apple to make a smooth transition or to see if people like the software enough to where they in the future go like: " well, if you like iTunes, the iPod, iDisk, and whatever they decide to make for Winblows, then here is OS X for the x86 or the Opteron(Itanium). (remember marklar)

Maybe they are testing the waters or making Apple more mainstream and making it so attractive that people may just make the switch, thus getting the developers onboard to make software for x86OS x.

I think I may be looking to far into this!

Go 970, Go PPC.:confused:

[jamilecrire]

Originally posted by Mr Jobs
jamilecrire its 3.30am here in the UK and you just gave me a good laugh, thanks man

If you want to know the funny thing about my posting is my first job out of college was at Arthur Andersen and so far it was the best job I've had (worst freaking pay ever). The people were very intelligent, the job was interesting and the clients were very nice (usually).

I felt bad for them because I worked in Business Consulting (Computer Related), CRM (Computer Risk Management) and did Audits with the accountants. I have a degree in Finance and MIS and I speak 3 languages (English, Spanish, French). I'm considering getting a Masters in Economics (or just another undergrad in Econ) for fun. That will have to wait another couple of years though.

The funny thing is I love programming, I just hate working on programs. I'm a tinkerer, I like learning how to do things, the mundane task of building boring applications is only worthwhile because it allows me to blow insane amounts of cash on the toys my wife wants (I'm guilty as well). Plus I'll be retired by the time I'm 35. Well not retired but no longer in need of cash to maintain a very comfortable standard of living. I guess when I thought the stock market was overpriced in 1997 I was right (as far as I know only Warren E Buffett and myself thought this, j/k).

Oh well back to work (100-120hrs/week). My only breaks are college football in the fall and world cup soccer (qualifying too) which is the reason I'll be speaking 4 languages before too long (Germany 2006).

Sorry for rant, this is my form of bar (a la Cheers).

[MrBillGates]

Originally posted by mim
This indeed is the problem. Imagine the poor guy who pipes up and says "hang on, my BEST friend would be perfect for the job". There's a basement workstation beside the trash compactor that's got that guy's name on it...:D

now that is hella funny. Reminds me of "Office Space." :D

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Must be possess strong skills in the areas of application design, solid API design principles, user interface engineering, and have a strong understanding of customer and workflow issues.

Apparently you don't have to possess proper gramatical skills or other proper uses of the english language. That being the case, can I have a job in the marketing department now?
I kan spel reel gud.

Job listing re-written: Must be possessin' mad skillz in killer app speech, great taggin', the shizzle dizzle for the enginizzle, and hear the good shout-outs from the peeps.

I'm in the book. Online Apple resume already filled out. :)

And one more thing - who would want to work in the WINDOWS department at Apple? Talk about the guy (or girl - don't want to annoy the ladies...) who will be the recipient of every practical joke the Infinite Loop campus can throw at them. Poor bastage.

[MrBillGates]

Originally posted by Mudbug
Apparently you don't have to possess proper gramatical skills or other proper uses of the english language. That being the case, can I have a job in the marketing department now?
I kan spel reel gud.

Job listing re-written: Must be possessin' mad skillz in killer app speech, great taggin', the shizzle dizzle for the enginizzle, and hear the good shout-outs from the peeps.

I'm in the book. Online Apple resume already filled out. :)

And one more thing - who would want to work in the WINDOWS department at Apple? Talk about the guy (or girl - don't want to annoy the ladies...) who will be the recipient of every practical joke the Infinite Loop campus can throw at them. Poor bastage.

Basically you'd be the butt of every joke... The office pariah. Steve's litte bit@h.

[jamilecrire]

As a windows, solaris, linux and mac os 9/X user, my belief is this would kill Macs.

If I want an OS for work, games, etc that is cheap and works well enough I choose windows (as most people do). If I want a total experience, ease of use, amazing hardware, style I choose OS X. If I want a stable server platform for web applications I choose Linux. If I want a scaleable, stable, supported OS for a database server I choose solaris (sparc).

Apple can take over all these with the exception of cheap. This is why putting apple s/w on PC hardware (it almost is now) won't work. No style, No Apple.

Maybe apple should pull a Nintendo and start dumping their hardware to get market share. Once everything is available for OS X or OS XI, ... then start to focus on greater margins.

I think apple can become the DB Server (with PPC 970 and Oracle), the Web Server (Apache w/JSP mod), and the stylish desktop. The desktop is more difficult because consumers are VERY price sensitive. Not to mention very easily swayed by misinformation from the "Ad Wizards" in the Wintel marketing departments.

Originally posted by MacAficionado
Could this be a way for Apple to make a smooth transition or to see if people like the software enough to where they in the future go like: " well, if you like iTunes, the iPod, iDisk, and whatever they decide to make for Winblows, then here is OS X for the x86 or the Opteron(Itanium). (remember marklar)

Maybe they are testing the waters or making Apple more mainstream and making it so attractive that people may just make the switch, thus getting the developers onboard to make software for x86OS x.

I think I may be looking to far into this!

Go 970, Go PPC.:confused:

[Maxx Power]

Anyone thought of what the skin maybe like for iTunes for windows ? Just a thought.

[Xerov]

IF the marklar rumor is correct...wouldnt they already have a version of iTunes for x86?

And even if they only made the OS on x86, wouldnt they get the same team to do iTunes?

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by Xerov
IF the marklar rumor is correct...wouldnt they already have a version of iTunes for x86?

And even if they only made the OS on x86, wouldnt they get the same team to do iTunes?

Good question, but probably not. iTunes isn't an essential part of the OS, so getting it to run on x86 probably hasn't been first priority, until uncle Steve said "make it so."
And as for part 2 of your question, the folks that write the code for OSX on x86 are STILL probably a little busy working on that one. If that is the ultimate plan (not saying it is, mind you...) then taking away your most important programmers from thier chiseled out task at hand seems like a bad idea.

I think what they should do is javacise the program, or make it run as a "dos" level program that would allow it to run without the windows interface running, and allow the port to multiple os's without serious recoding.

my .02¢

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Fredo Viola
Is it just me, or is it really weird to see a job listing for such a seriously important role at Apple? You'd think Steve had a handful of the most talented in mind. At the same time it's pretty cool to see that it's not closed, that they're looking to see what's out there, see what's fresh and innovative. That's what keeps Apple the great company that it is! They always seek to innovate. And make money, of course, but that's the nature of the beast! I doubt it's as glamorous a position as you make it out to be. "Senior Software Engineer" is a fairly broad category that usually translates to, "Programmer with experience". My title at my present and prior jobs is/was "Senior Software Engineer", before that it was the equivilent of "Software Engineer" (technically, it was "Cosultant II" - but that meant nothing to anyone but payroll). Both titles mean code-geek, one pays a lot better than the other. I am one of about 100 "Software Engineers" at my division of (insert large, DFW based travel it shop here) and of those 100, I'd guess there's about 20 of us that are "Senior". I'd venture to guess that Apple has a lot more than 20 Sr. Eng'rs. (It's not like this position would be the only guy working on the app' - at least I doubt it.)

[edit]PS: When I say that "senior" just means experienced, I really should say that we are expected (because of that experience) to be more of a systems architect/designer type engineer than the less experienced guys/gals. (Just didn't want to disrespect any fellow "Senior" engineers out there! ;) )

PPS: I know a lot of "non-senior" engineers that could design and/or code circles around some "senior" ones. Sometimes seniority get's confused with "senior". :rolleyes:

[second edit was to censor my company and division names - nobody here would care and my company (and it's parent) would probably not appretiate me talking about how many engineers we have :D ]

[jethroted]

Originally posted by Xerov
IF the marklar rumor is correct...wouldnt they already have a version of iTunes for x86?

And even if they only made the OS on x86, wouldnt they get the same team to do iTunes?

The bigest problem with that theory is that Marklar is not windows. It's Mac OS. So even though it runs on x86, that means nothing to a windows user. That's like saying "Well, I have this copy of photoshop for linux, shouldn't it run on windows?" No. It's a totally different os.

[tYNS]

It was an obvious thing to happen.. All I can say is I told you so (to all those who denied all the possibily of this in my post a week or so ago).


Apple can now branch their music service. This will be great for bringing the whole computer community on board.

[Mudbug]

The important thing for them to work on is really getting it to work flawlessly on multiple versions of windows. XP screws with it's code differently than 9x, or 2000, or NT, or fill in the blank. In order for it to really work with the windows-using folks, it's got to be perfect. Not just pretty-much there. All of the artists. All of the tracks. All of the options. All of the time. And god/allah/yahweh help them if it crashes. Ever.

Wanna see what real windows users (that would give a flip) think of mac folks and thier software? Go join a chat with some gamers. They'll let you know just what they think. The trick will be winning them over. They are, by the way, probably the largest portion of the P2P sharing market as it existed before yesterday.

[Hawthorne]

Originally posted by arn
heh... makes it sound like a cult or a country club. ;)

arn

It's not?

I mean, if you see it in Wired, (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/) it MUST be true! :D

[arn]

Originally posted by Xerov
IF the marklar rumor is correct...wouldnt they already have a version of iTunes for x86?

And even if they only made the OS on x86, wouldnt they get the same team to do iTunes?

no...

iTunes for Marklar would be iTunes for Mac recompiled and tweaked.

Windows has a completely different API and would require a rewrite.

Same reason you can't run BeOS (for x86) apps under Windows and vice versa.

arn

[Sedulous]

I don't know why so many people think iTunes for Window$ spells doom for Apple. Obviously Apple has more OS X specific apps on the way... so what if Window$ folk get one more iApp?

[Mudbug]

hehe. I just thought this would be funny...

<edit> Please excuse the nastyness and quickness - I'm sitting in the recliner on the laptop ? not looking to expend too much energy this close to going to bed.</edit>

[scem0]

I'm gunna go pray that it looks better than that now....


;)

[pimentoLoaf]

Wonderful! :cool: Will have to put off an iPod buy 'til winItunes is released.

[kylos]

Originally posted by Mudbug
The important thing for them to work on is really getting it to work flawlessly on multiple versions of windows. XP screws with it's code differently than 9x, or 2000, or NT, or fill in the blank. In order for it to really work with the windows-using folks, it's got to be perfect. Not just pretty-much there. All of the artists. All of the tracks. All of the options. All of the time. And god/allah/yahweh help them if it crashes. Ever.

Wanna see what real windows users (that would give a flip) think of mac folks and thier software? Go join a chat with some gamers. They'll let you know just what they think. The trick will be winning them over. They are, by the way, probably the largest portion of the P2P sharing market as it existed before yesterday.

So true. It will only take a miniscule flaw and the mac haters will be going at it full force.

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by jamilecrire
* This only applies to democrats, for the republican version see below.

1) Get rich any way possible (ethics be damned).
2) Lie to self that money, power, success actually is happiness
3) Goto #1

4) Save it for the political forums. And remember which way Bill Gates and Ted Turner vote.

PS: Some of us don't like making blanket statements about huge segments of the population, i.e. "those black people sure do like to sleep around."

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
4) Save it for the political forums. And remember which way Bill Gates and Ted Turner vote.

PS: Some of us don't like making blanket statements about huge segments of the population, i.e. "those black people sure do like to sleep around."

well said.

[pudrik]

The funny thing is, Republicans would say the same thing about Democrats. Just demonstrates how little people understand their opposition, no matter how much they may "try" to.

On-topic:
Apple better get off their butts and get this out by the end of the summer, not the end of the year, or their system will be copied (although probably not well). Like we saw with the iPod, TiBook, etc., it doesn't take long for the PC world to come up with cheap knock-offs of Apple designs, and those were hardware. Rhapsody need only eliminate their subscription service and team up with MS to implement a DRM solution similar to Apple's, and the opportunity is lost.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by jamilecrire
If you want to know the funny thing about my posting is my first job out of college was at Arthur Andersen and so far it was the best job I've had (worst freaking pay ever). The people were very intelligent, the job was interesting and the clients were very nice (usually).

I felt bad for them because I worked in Business Consulting (Computer Related), CRM (Computer Risk Management) and did Audits with the accountants. I have a degree in Finance and MIS and I speak 3 languages (English, Spanish, French). I'm considering getting a Masters in Economics (or just another undergrad in Econ) for fun. That will have to wait another couple of years though.

The funny thing is I love programming, I just hate working on programs. I'm a tinkerer, I like learning how to do things, the mundane task of building boring applications is only worthwhile because it allows me to blow insane amounts of cash on the toys my wife wants (I'm guilty as well). Plus I'll be retired by the time I'm 35. Well not retired but no longer in need of cash to maintain a very comfortable standard of living. I guess when I thought the stock market was overpriced in 1997 I was right (as far as I know only Warren E Buffett and myself thought this, j/k).

Oh well back to work (100-120hrs/week). My only breaks are college football in the fall and world cup soccer (qualifying too) which is the reason I'll be speaking 4 languages before too long (Germany 2006).

Sorry for rant, this is my form of bar (a la Cheers).

oh man, and i thought i worked hard (when i have work) :( damn im already 34 and practically unemployed, know nothing about the stock market, speak one language, dont have a wife, havent received a BA in ANYTHING......ok now im depressed. i wish i had a beer. oh well, i have a meeting tomorrow. wish me luck.

edit: apples all over the news. they just had a nice segment on the new service, they even went into the apple store. they put a positive spin on the whole subject. Fox 11. :D i wish i had a beer.

[mim]

Originally posted by pudrik

Apple better get off their butts and get this out by the end of the summer, not the end of the year, or their system will be copied (although probably not well). Like we saw with the iPod, TiBook, etc., it doesn't take long for the PC world to come up with cheap knock-offs of Apple designs, and those were hardware. Rhapsody need only eliminate their subscription service and team up with MS to implement a DRM solution similar to Apple's, and the opportunity is lost.

This worried me too, pre-release - but I think that it is probably unlikely now. The reason is that the record companies are treating this as a bit of an experiment - but also are treating it seriously and with a positive attitude. They are likely to 'wait and see' what happens with the service...one time that the small Mac user base will work to Apple's advantage. By the time the record companies give the green light for full steam ahead, Apple's service should have a huge market advantage.

Also, although I personally think AOL are pretty evil - rumors of an iTunes (or 'tunes based music software) client for them are exciting. It's certainly no rumor that AOL and Real are starting to head their separate ways. Real is posting losses too....(and their software is real ****e).
a.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by mim
Also, although I personally think AOL are pretty evil - rumors of an iTunes (or 'tunes based music software) client for them are exciting.

I'd have to agree with this. Although it pains me to think I might be supporting something that AOL does (they still owe me $200 from several years ago - long story), the idea of instantly adding a few million users doesn't sound too bad. Especially since the majority of the AOL users that I know have no idea what they're using until it doesn't work anymore. When they ask "how can I get that neat music player thing again when I don't renew my AOL" - you can point them in the proper direction.

People sign up for AOL because they have friends that tell them it's easy (sounds like why I push macs). And if you've set foot outside of your house lately you've noticed they're cd distribution tactic - COMPLETE MARKET SATURATION. Want a free sign up disc? I challenge you to go out shopping for a day anywhere in any city and NOT see a "free 1200 hours" cd glaring at you.

Now for devil's advocate - as I said before, there can't be ANY bugs in the system, or the windows folks will rip it to shreds QUICKLY. And, well, how to say it nicely, AOL isn't exactly bug-free. Maybe Apple can help that situation before handing over code for their music distribution software.

[BaghdadBob]

I don't believe everyone should be worried about Apple making all their cool products available for the PC just because iTunes is coming over. Look at it this way:

1) PC users will get a good dose of how nice Apple software will be. All my experiences with WMP are that it sucks **g d***** ***s. My girl has XP and has never gotten WMP to work well on her machine either.

Having a full version of iTunes for Windows is necessary, because you don't want just client software, you want to give them the ability to enjoy Apple's good music management software, just to say "Yeah...nice, isn't it...boy, we've got some more stuff like this, but...it's for that fruity platform. Too bad."

2) OMG, the profits. Look, you can argue selection all you want, but for day one it's good, and I think we can all agree the service is largely awesome. It has huge hype for a product with such a small customer pool. Great reviews. And the PC users are jealous. We're gonna see a huge cash cow come with this. More profits for Apple =

3) Smaller margins being needed for the hardware. The more money Apple makes on non-CPU revenue, the less they need to charge for their CPUs. The way I see it, this service is going to be the catalyst by which Apple is allowed to maybe...sell their hardware at a loss? And still make a profit corporate-wide?

Three magic words: saturate the market. :D

And as most of us have figured out, this is a self-perpetuating process. The smaller the R&D:Manufacturing costs ratio is, the less they have to charge for their hardware. It's an outward spiral. This is why PC companies can charge so little, they have almost no R&D expenses.

Here's hoping. Hoping like Pooh, man...:o*hope* *hope* *hope*

[onemilkid]

It's pretty obvious:

Inventing new AlGore-ythems!!!

[mim]

Originally posted by onemilkid
It's pretty obvious:

Inventing new AlGore-ythems!!!

You know...that's pretty funny for a German ;)

Maybe it's Al-Gor-Rhythms. He not only invented the internet, but also the iTunes engine and the server side scripts for the music service.

Du bist mein kleines zuckerstucken! (pardon my spelling).

a!

[JGowan]

I saw that there were mixed feelings about the new green itunes icon. I changed the color on the icons and hopefully will be posted on http://www.xicons.com very soon! Check there over the next day or 3! There are 14 different colors of musical notes in all!

http://www.gowan.us/itunes.jpg

[BaghdadBob]

Sorry, man, I'm not a SpyMac member, and the picture is telling me that it's for SpyMac members only.

Personally I have no interest in being a member of a site that seems to have such a high percentage of ignorant ***holes in their forums, but that's just my personal opinion. Not to say there aren't good people there, but, man, I just can't stand reading their threads. I would spend way too much time responding to people's b******t.

[AndrewMT]

I just bought a new 15 GB iPod and downloaded musicmatch for the first time (I have always used winamp). This software is terrible! No, I do not want to upgrade to the plus version or buy any other upgrades! I click on shoutcast links and musicmatch tries to play it but ultimately fails. I'm going to stick with my pc until the 970s come out, so I would really love a windows version of iTunes. Is anyone making an iPod plugin for winamp3?

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by pudrik

Apple better get off their butts and get this out by the end of the summer, not the end of the year, or their system will be copied (although probably not well). Like we saw with the iPod, TiBook, etc., it doesn't take long for the PC world to come up with cheap knock-offs of Apple designs, and those were hardware. Rhapsody need only eliminate their subscription service and team up with MS to implement a DRM solution similar to Apple's, and the opportunity is lost.
Alternatively they could realise who pays their bills and make it work for international mac users first rather than US windows users who don't give a damn.

[mim]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
I just bought a new 15 GB iPod and downloaded musicmatch for the first time (I have always used winamp). This software is terrible! No, I do not want to upgrade to the plus version or buy any other upgrades! I click on shoutcast links and musicmatch tries to play it but ultimately fails. I'm going to stick with my pc until the 970s come out, so I would really love a windows version of iTunes. Is anyone making an iPod plugin for winamp3?

You need Ephpod (www.ephpod.com). It's far from perfect, but it's very usable, fast, and actually works unlike Music Match.

<edit: oh...and free>

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Alternatively they could realise who pays their bills and make it work for international mac users first rather than US windows users who don't give a damn.

Hey, I'm in the US and I am totally feeling you on this. I feel really bad for you guys. But according to Apple it is not their fault, it is with the reord companies.

Remember that the Big 5 still have control over how the music is distributed. If they don't want it done in Europe yet for whatever (control) reason then Apple can't release to Europe. And I don't think it's because they don't want to.

Not that I think Sherlock not working in Europe is anyone's fault but Apple's for not reaching deals with the content providers (and publishers) necessary -- they've certainly had enough time. I just don't think it's the same case here.

From the tone of things I don't think it will stay this way for long. I just really look at this first offering as testing the waters to see if the service is meeting the control standards the record companies want. But I could be wrong.

[w3source]

That job posting is a hoax.

First of all there :D grammer is incorrect, "Must be possess..."? Come on, No HR department would let that get posted, especially not apple.

Secondly, apple has this little site thing called http://jobs.apple.com where basically they have an endless number of programmers and the like sending them resumes everyday. They have no need to post it on Monster.com


Just my thoughts on the matter though, however I do think Apple would be stupid if they didn't expand the Apple Music store, and thus iTunes, to Windows. The music industry and most importantly Apple could make a killing with it. I'm also sure the music industry only signed the deal with Apple on the basis that they expand it to the Windows Platform as well. :) ;)

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by w3source
That job posting is a hoax.

First of all there :D grammer is incorrect, "Must be possess..."? Come on, No HR department would let that get posted, especially not apple.

Secondly, apple has this little site thing called http://jobs.apple.com where basically they have an endless number of programmers and the like sending them resumes everyday. They have no need to post it on Monster.com The Monster.com one (if one exists) might be fake - but the one on the link you posted (jobs.apple.com) is real. (It also does not contain the gramitcal error mentioned - maybe they fixed it?)

[BenRoethig]

For those who think this is a bad idea, it all comes down to economics. Macs make under 10% of personal computers. That means like it or not over 90% of computers run windows. Mac users might make it possible for Apple to break even on this music store, but to make any real money, you're going to need the windows crowd. It might not be preferred that that windows get things like iTunes, the iTunes music store, and the iPod, but Apple is a business and is therefore out to make money. The more money Apple makes, the more cool inovations they can get into OSX (they can start by making universal joystick drivers). It's not like they're porting all of OSX over to Windows anyway. iTunes is required to port over to Windows, the rest of the iApps Windows is not getting.

[jouster]

I have to say that I'm baffled as to why anyone would give this a negative rating.....

Do people think that Apple will make money on:-

(a) Only ~ 5% market share or so, of which,

(b) Not everyone will upgrade to iTunes4, and,

(c) Of those who do, not everyone will actually buy music.....

They NEED as many Windows users as possible.

And, a lot of Win people are gonna look at iTunes and think - 'well, this app is pretty cool. WOnder what else this company makes. Hmmm......iMovie.....iPhoto. Those are cool, but I have to buy a Mac to use them,'

And some will.

[kcmac]

The music files will still be AAC format. Does this mean that only Quicktime will open them even on the windows side?

[gbojim]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Alternatively they could realise who pays their bills and make it work for international mac users first rather than US windows users who don't give a damn.

The issue is not technical. It has something to do with the licensing agreement with the record companies. Can't remember if I read that in one of the articles or Steve said it in the presentation.

[rastalin94]

Apple really should release a version of iTunes for the PC just to show people a glimplse of the Apple Magic. I have been using MP3's on my PC for almost five years and I had to stop simply because I finally got fed up with the software outhere. Some of it is really good in concept, but it either could not handle 3000 files well, or it crahsed all the time, or was a big resource hog.

The best solution I came up with was connecting my iBook to my PC and using iTunes over a wireless network to play music. This worked really well and I had no problems at all. Well than the girlfriend moved in and kind of took the iBook over, so I am back to just using my PC.

So please release a version of iTunes to show the windows people how easy computing can be. I was able to snatch the iBook for a short period of time and check out the iTunes Music Store. I was just blown away by how easy and seemless it was. It felt like I was just browsing my libaray, not searching though an online music database.

You do not need to switch over any of the other iApps. Switch iTunes over because it shows the windows world what apple can do, but much more importantly it is the only iApp at the moment that will mean reoccuring income. Apple will give you iTunes but they make their money on downloades.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by kcmac
The music files will still be AAC format. Does this mean that only Quicktime will open them even on the windows side?

Or any other AAC reader, of which there are probably few at the moment, but the number should exponentially grow soon.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by Maxx Power
Anyone thought of what the skin maybe like for iTunes for windows ? Just a thought.

Apple can keep their iApp brushed metallic look and just put the XP widgets on it. They'd be hip to stick to the look and feel of XP, show the PC folks how a proper XP application should look. Do it up right... - j

[Mudbug]

JGowan - Oxblood? why not red-ish, like orange-ish?

[jayscheuerle]

Will it be a free download?

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Will it be a free download?

Doubt it. Apple doesn't do much for the world outside of macs for free, save for quicktime, just because it's a standard.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by Mudbug
Doubt it. Apple doesn't do much for the world outside of macs for free, save for quicktime, just because it's a standard.

I'm not sure. The lure is not the mp3 player. They're a dime a dozen. The lure is access to the music service, which I'm guessing Apple is making some kind of cut on.

If music is the crack, then Apple will give the pipe away for free... - j

[locovaca]

For all of you nay-sayers that it'll be horribly hard to program this for Windows, look at quicktime. It runs on everything from 95 to XP, doesn't crash, and I consider it a more complex program (having to decipher video and audio) than what iTunes will be.

Plus, I could see this version of iTunes not support ripping or burning- just make it a player and not much else.

[danielruiz]

Personally I could care less about Windows. I know Apple has stated that Mac 9.x is dead but not every mac user has or even can upgrade to OS X on all their machines (older mac, etc.). What about us?

[MorganX]

Originally posted by MacAficionado
Maybe they are testing the waters or making Apple more mainstream and making it so attractive that people may just make the switch, thus getting the developers onboard to make software for x86OS x.

I don't think so. Most in the record industry have referred to the Apple Music Store as an "experiment." And the market as "small." Without the PC marketshare AAC nor Apple's distribution model can become a "standard" for the industry. There's simply not enough users.

Not to mention that the "piracy" the RIAA is looking to stem, is primarily on the PC platform.

Apple has to get iTunes on Windows before similar efforts are made using WM9 or MP3 in the much larger, and to the RIAA, more significant PC market.

If Apple can get it done (PC software is not Apple's strong-suit) the RIAA would probably prefer anything that does not tie them to a single vendor, i.e. WM9.

[deepkid]

Originally posted by Mudbug


Job listing re-written: Must be possessin' mad skillz in killer app speech, great taggin', the shizzle dizzle for the enginizzle, and hear the good shout-outs from the peeps.



Hahah.. Stop, I can't laugh at work ... at least not while staring at a studio display.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by danielruiz
Personally I could care less about Windows. I know Apple has stated that Mac 9.x is dead but not every mac user has or even can upgrade to OS X on all their machines (older mac, etc.). What about us?

Well, in a perfect world, they'd like you to upgrade. That'd help them (and trust me, it would help you too). :D

I can feel your pain, though. Moving up to X takes $$, let alone time. Unfortunately to continue moving ahead in software development, sometimes you have to raise the bar of the lowest common denominator to make it make sense for the masses. The average shelf-life of a computer is about 3 years, any more than that and you're lucky, or don't upgrade often.

[herr_neumann]

I hope it does well. Any increase in revenue that leads to more R&D or lowering the margin on other products is great, and this could do that.

[deepkid]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Alternatively they could realise who pays their bills and make it work for international mac users first rather than US windows users who don't give a damn.

I know that this may be hard for most people to understand, but its NOT APPLE that doesn't want to sell you music, its the legalities involved.

Why wouldn't they want to sell to as many people as possible? Give them the credit that they deserve.

Laws vary from country to country, territory to territory. It is likely more cumbersome to work out copyright issues (who owns the music) and royalties (payments to record companies, artists, publishers, etc.) in foreign territories. I deal with this all the time with my own record label.

Trust me, it was a MASSIVE UNDERTAKING to get the "big 5" in the U.S. to sign on. It's very political and there's lots of red tape, bickering and childish behavior.

It will be completely overwhelming for them to get the same type of cooperation from record labels in other countries.

As its been said before, try to secure a bank account with a billable address in the U.S. and you can immediately begin taking advantage of Music Store.

Take care.

[herr_neumann]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Will it be a free download?

Probably, iTunes is where they would be making the money here, it is the music...

[Mudbug]

I think one of the problems I'm having with the "legality" of this service across the pond is that you can buy recordings of artists on CD's in record stores in Europe (and everywhere else).

If this music service is as legal as buying a CD at Best Buy, why can't they make it work internationally the way CD sales work?

I'd love to see this go worldwide. Soon.

[deepkid]

Originally posted by danielruiz
Personally I could care less about Windows. I know Apple has stated that Mac 9.x is dead but not every mac user has or even can upgrade to OS X on all their machines (older mac, etc.). What about us?

As I sit here writing this on my beloved G4 400 desktop (OS 9.1), you're just gonna have to climb aboard the OS X train or miss out. It's a hard reality.

Thank gawd for my Ti550 and G4 400 at home with OS X.

Apple is a for-profit business and they have to recouperate what they've invested in a wonderful *new* OS called Mac OS X.

It will temp people to buy it or buy new hardware that runs it. That's the carrot, my friend... and as a stockholder, I love it.:D :D

[coolbreeze]

Originally posted by Maxx Power
Anyone thought of what the skin maybe like for iTunes for windows ? Just a thought.
Well, this is a screenshot from my Compaq running Windows 2000 Professional. I sppose Apple will port iTunes to Windows by using the same "brushed metal" they use for quicktime for windows.

By the way, when I open quicktime for windows, this is what I get. They are already giving Windows users a taste of this music service.

[Dave K]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I think one of the problems I'm having with the "legality" of this service across the pond is that you can buy recordings of artists on CD's in record stores in Europe (and everywhere else).


Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Artists very rarely own the rights to their music. Their labels do. And they all operate separate entities in separate markets to deal with the fact that each market has their own copyright and contract laws to deal with. Because of this, signing, say, WB US does not give you access to WB UK catalog. You have to turn around and sell WB UK on the idea and negotiate another contract under UK law to sell their catalog.

Then you get into fun things like local content laws and differing tastes and suddenly WB US's catalog differs from WB UK's catalog. Either because release dates are different, or WB UK/US doesn't think the artist will sell in their territory, so they don't obtain the rights and that artist is simply not available. Then, you have to sort out whether or not they've signed locally with someone else, or do you need to "import" that artist from another zone and who the primary rights holder that has to be paid for the privilage is. Which is why, for example, when I went to hunt down a Warren Zevon album for my dad last christmas, his early records could bought for the local going rate, but most of the newer stuff put out since his fame died down had to be bought at as an "Import" at twice the typical local price. No local distributer wanted it.

That's just one of the ways the entire process could best be described as "legally messy", even before the Labels start tossing their own extra conditions into the mix...

[applebobbing]

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Apple Features for International Users"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/AppleInt/

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.

Best wishes,

Steffan Kent

[Mudbug]

I also looked at the online petition. Unfortunately, it's worded in a way that makes it sound like Apple's the one controlling international distribution. Look back a few posts in this thread and you'll see this is the exact topic we're talking about. I'm all in favor of Apple broadening their market. I'm pretty sure they are too. More users = more $$ = better development = better computers = no more microsoft. just threw that last one in there to see if you were paying attention.

[kylos]

Originally posted by applebobbing
Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the online petition:

"Apple Features for International Users"

hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition
service, at:

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/AppleInt/

I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think you might
agree, too. If you can spare a moment, please take a look, and consider
signing yourself.

Best wishes,

Steffan Kent

Just a warning: People get really weird about petitions around here. If you don't like being flamed, you probably don't want to mention petitions.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
4) Save it for the political forums. And remember which way Bill Gates and Ted Turner vote.

PS: Some of us don't like making blanket statements about huge segments of the population, i.e. "those black people sure do like to sleep around."

Thank you BdB

[NavyIntel007]

First off I want to say Please shut up about marklar! although x86 has faster processors it is in no way the best architecture and is certainly not a fitting Apple architecture. The more you bring this DEAD topic up, the more it shows your lack of knowledge in computing. Besides the fact that it's never going to happen so don't bring it up. If apple went x86, I'm finding a different computer platform.

I will say that Itunes should not be ported to Windows. They should be able to have a portal to the Applemusic store that ties into quicktime but that's it. A featurless web portal and that is all.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
I will say that Itunes should not be ported to Windows. They should be able to have a portal to the Applemusic store that ties into quicktime but that's it. A featurless web portal and that is all.

featureless won't entice new users... maybe limited features, but still mainly a fully-functioning jukebox program with the interface to the iAMS.

hehe - isn't Iams a dog food company?

[coolbreeze]

Well, my opinion is this. I don't think that porting iTunes to Windows is a good idea. I agree with NavyIntel...sure, allow windows users to purchase from the online music store, but leave it at that.

I say this as a recent switcher (Feb of 2003). THE primary motivation to switch to Apple started when I bought an iPod. Sure, I had it working with windows (it is a mac pod working via X-Play) but I was so curious about iTunes (something I couldn't have) I started poking around on apple.com.

After reading about iPhoto, iCal, Safari, etc, I decided to ditch my homemade AMD vacum cleaner (man that thing was loud) and come to Apple. I got an iMac from someone on this board and haven't looked back for a second.

My fear is Apple will essentially shoot themselves in the foot by allowing their iApps to be ported to Windows. Yes, I know, they are just talking iTunes now and nothing else, but who would have ever thought a single iApp would have made it to Windows? iPhoto, etc is next.

If Apple concentrates on software, ports most of it to Windows, why on earth would anyone shell out $3200 for a mac when they can run the same software on a $800 PC? (yes these numbers are extreme ends of the spectrum but you get the point).

Give Windows a very watered down version, so it sparks curiosity. Hell, it worked with me over a silly iTunes curiosity...if I had it on Windows I might have changed my mind about going mac, and Apple wouldn't have a new switcher.

My 2 cents.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by Dave K
Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

Artists very rarely own the rights to their music. Their labels do. And they all operate separate entities in separate markets to deal with the fact that each market has their own copyright and contract laws to deal with. Because of this, signing, say, WB US does not give you access to WB UK catalog. You have to turn around and sell WB UK on the idea and negotiate another contract under UK law to sell their catalog.

Then you get into fun things like local content laws and differing tastes and suddenly WB US's catalog differs from WB UK's catalog. Either because release dates are different, or WB UK/US doesn't think the artist will sell in their territory, so they don't obtain the rights and that artist is simply not available. Then, you have to sort out whether or not they've signed locally with someone else, or do you need to "import" that artist from another zone and who the primary rights holder that has to be paid for the privilage is. Which is why, for example, when I went to hunt down a Warren Zevon album for my dad last christmas, his early records could bought for the local going rate, but most of the newer stuff put out since his fame died down had to be bought at as an "Import" at twice the typical local price. No local distributer wanted it.

That's just one of the ways the entire process could best be described as "legally messy", even before the Labels start tossing their own extra conditions into the mix...
Whilst this is all true I just don't want Apple to go 'That's too difficult' and not bother. As mentioned elsewhere it's not just with this the non-US folks get a worse deal. We don't get the iPhoto album buying stuff or anything worth bothering with with Sherlock either. Are those the record companies fault? The more we make Apple realise how pissed off we are about this the more they might try to do something about it. Sure the US is Apples biggest single market by far but it still sells half it's macs outside of the US.

[Winston Smith]

I'm glad to here the right noises from Apple about the music service coming to international markets.

But I want to know what timescales are being aimed at since i don't trust Apple on this after Sherlock and iPhoto. I will also be extremely angry if the effort goes into bringing the service to Windows before International Apple customers as already seems to be the case.

I suspect Apple can't be bothered and will hide behind no announcements on future products and legal issues.

As this seems to be the longest thread on this subject some of you might want to complete this petition (5500 and counting) and help the international cousins!

International petition (http://)

My tuppence ha'penny

[BaghdadBob]

I think there's a bigger petition going on:


Dear Apple:

We would like to offer ourselves in exchange for settling the legal issues with the control-freak record companies and offering your music sevice internationally. Thanks in advance for expiditing our ability to throw ourselves at you.

Signed:

Yen
Lira
Franc
Pound
Dinar
Peso
Mark
Kroner
Gulden
Piastres
Drachmai

etc, etc, etc. I really wouldn't sweat it. Releasing iTMS for the international market equals big bucks to Apple, and requires much less effort than developing for Windows. They're not stupid, they will do everything they can. Unlike Sherlock, this equals profits, period (not that I agree with their lack of effort on that front).

[MorganX]

Originally posted by coolbreeze

I say this as a recent switcher (Feb of 2003). THE primary motivation to switch to Apple started when I bought an iPod. Sure, I had it working with windows (it is a mac pod working via X-Play) but I was so curious about iTunes (something I couldn't have) I started poking around on apple.com.

I'm a switcher too. but not many people are switching to mac for iLife. The number is negligible. Trust me, if any significant number of people were switching they would.

The PC has far more consumer DVD apps. Pirated software abounds. Cheap fast hardware. And many find XP's interface superior. There are still things I like better about it, but I do prefer my iMac.

There's a lot of cheaper, as or more capable video/audio players soon to be available and marketed directly at PC users. Apple cannot wait for the PC world to catch up and surpass them. And that's exactly what will happen if Apple doesn't establish iTunes, iPod, the Music Store, and AAC on the PC platform. No matter how nice or easy to use it is, it can easily be dwarfed by a modest percentage of the PC market. The RIAA cares about one thing and one thing only, money.

[scem0]

Originally posted by danielruiz
Personally I could care less about Windows. I know Apple has stated that Mac 9.x is dead but not every mac user has or even can upgrade to OS X on all their machines (older mac, etc.). What about us?

you must remember that this is a good thing for apple. People
who haven't upgraded now have to buy mac os 10.2 for mucho
denero. Plus, there aren't many people still running 9.x. :(

[jholzner]

Originally posted by kcmac
The music files will still be AAC format. Does this mean that only Quicktime will open them even on the windows side?

Well, one would assume that the iTunes for Windows woud support the AAC format.

[jholzner]

Originally posted by scem0
you must remember that this is a good thing for apple. People
who haven't upgraded now have to buy mac os 10.2 for mucho
denero. Plus, there aren't many people still running 9.x. :(

Well, last I heard only 10 percent of mac users have migrated to X...so there are still a LOT of os 9 users out there.

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by jholzner
Well, last I heard only 10 percent of mac users have migrated to X...so there are still a LOT of os 9 users out there.

I saw that number too, and from what I understand that was from last year. We've had Jaguar since then, and I think there are a lot more migrations since (including new macs), but I could be wrong.

PS: Upgrading is smooth and worth it. I have a 400 Mhz G3, and I have never looked back.

[mkaake]

as for the os 9 card, i too feel your pain. i'm running my beige g3 at 266 w/416 megs of ram and a decent hard drive. my first thought was, man this would be awesome on my mac. but i know it will never happen. i mean never. it's not that i don't think it's a good idea for 'us' to get itunes 4, but apple isn't going out of it's way to support the old os. that's just business, sad as it is.

with that said, i think way more than 10 percent have switched. i dont' know many (other than myself) who haven't at this point. the only ones who haven't are still on the os 9 bandwagon for one reason - they don't think their hardware will support it. but most if not all os 9er's i know want to or are concidering a switch. it's just that some of them (myself included) don't have the money right now.

on to itunes...

porting to windows is great. and i don't think any more iapps will make it. the only reason they're porting itunes in teh first place is to provide a way for pc users to use the music service. dont' see what's so hard to understand there (or even bad about it). that said, i don't have a single pc using friend who's 100% happy with their mp3 player. little things, like eq's that butcher sound, or non-intuitive playlists. it takes a toll when you're talking several thousand songs. i think a good *apple* mp3 player that becomes the mack (and free for that matter) of the pc world is great. good exposure. i have a friend who was going to convert his old laptop and integrate it into his car dash just to use it as an mp3 player, and if money and time came together, possible a gps. when the new ipods showed up, i pointed him to them, and now he'll be buying one w/in the next few months.

ipods are great. and from what i hear, itunes is the only way to really appreciate an ipod. and of course, there's no way to use aplpe's music d/l w/out it.

so yeah, i think letting pc's have *one* iapp is good. my friends who use qt to watch trailers love it...

matt

p.s. sorry if this was a little random and jumpy from point to point... i'm in a hurry...

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
I'm not sure. The lure is not the mp3 player. They're a dime a dozen. The lure is access to the music service, which I'm guessing Apple is making some kind of cut on.

If music is the crack, then Apple will give the pipe away for free... - j

It's the only MP3 player with AAC support and access to AppleMusic.com. They'd be stupid not to charge for it. Charge like $30 with 5-10 free downloads.

[iJon]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
It's the only MP3 player with AAC support and access to AppleMusic.com. They'd be stupid not to charge for it. Charge like $30 with 5-10 free downloads.
it may just be me but i do not see apple selling this. it would be better if they made it free, people would download it and be set. i think their main goal needs to be is kick winamps ass outta here. make itunes free, and make money from downloadign music.

iJon

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by iJon
it may just be me but i do not see apple selling this. it would be better if they made it free, people would download it and be set. i think their main goal needs to be is kick winamps ass outta here. make itunes free, and make money from downloadign music.

iJon

If Apple is only making $.35/download, each user would have to buy 100 songs before they would make any money. People who use windows, who like the new format and want to use it will pay.

I do believe, however, that it should be free for the new iPod buyers. Otherwise they're contributing more to the labels and not to Apple.

[BaghdadBob]

To me, you want full market saturation in as short a time period as possible, so making people pay for the client is only going to slow that down.

Imagine if, when CDs came out, you didn't have to buy a CD player to listen to them. Don't you think you would have gone out and bought a CD a lot faster?

Millions and millions of PC users downloading songs as soon as the software is made available will very quickly compensate for the costs of developing the client software.

Try not to think of this as a neato free application for Windows users, remember that it is client software, and we want as many clients as possible.

[mproud]

https://jobs.apple.com/... hmm... you'd think this should be Steve's web page :D

[steve53e]

I believe bringing iTunes to Windows is a great idea.

With Microsoft pushing their own proprietary format/DRM model, Apple needs to do everything possible to ensure AAC becomes the entertainment industries choice for distribution of online content.

I think iTunes for Windows should be free to get it out to the largest number of users as fast as possible. The more users Apple can get behind AAC, the better. Let's face it. There's a large number of Wintel users that will never switch to the Mac. That doesn't mean Apple should ignore them as a source of revenue. Money is money, regardless of where it comes from.

In the end, I believe the entertainment industry will conclude that AAC is the best format for distributing online content. And if AAC wins..... everyone wins! Apple will have an additional source of revenue. The entertainment industry has a means of distributing their media online - without committing themselves to Microsoft's proprietary model. And users get pretty good fair use rights.

[steve53e]

Could the daily fluctuations in exchange rates have anything to do with Apple's descision not to offer the music service abroad? Any comments?

[caveman_uk]

They sell their computers in overseas markets...admittedly for more that they charge in the US. So exchange rates don't bother them that much. Why can't they just bill in dollars anyway? I have a Visa and have bought stuff from the US before and the exchange conversion is performed by Visa not the vendor.

[elmimmo]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
It's the only MP3 player with AAC support

That is plainly false. There are in fact many more AAC encoders/decoders for Windows than for Mac OS. From what I have read so far, iTunes is the only audio player with support to Apple's Musica Store's AAC (i.e. DRM-AAC).