Powermac Update? Not just any update ;)

[Ensign Paris]

Hi,

Even though I am still under the NDA, that doesn't stop me giving out info that I got told by someone not under the NDA, but with access to a leaker who is inside the NDA (I myself would never leak!)

My friendly Applecentre rep tells me that there are no more 1gHz G4s being
delivered to outlets. Which is usually secret code for an imminent range
upgrade announcement. He rarely prophecies anything, but has suggested this
time it just could be the long awaited G5 - within a month.

Any thoughts?

Ensign

[jethroted]

Originally posted by Ensign Paris
Hi,

Even though I am still under the NDA, that doesn't stop me giving out info that I got told by someone not under the NDA, but with access to a leaker who is inside the NDA (I myself would never leak!)



Any thoughts?

Ensign

Anyone who still thinks the "G5" is comming has not been keeping their ear very close to the ground. The G5 will probably never come out, and the G series will most likely be replaced by the 970 from IBM, which is a derivative of the power 4. Anyone who is slipping you "insider rumors" about a G5 is most likely lying.

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by jethroted
Anyone who still thinks the "G5" is comming has not been keeping their ear very close to the ground. The G5 will probably never come out, and the G series will most likely be replaced by the 970 from IBM, which is a derivative of the power 4. Anyone who is slipping you "insider rumors" about a G5 is most likely lying.

I hate to disagree with you, but I must. Motorola does not own the rights to the G-Series names, Apple does. It would be in Apple's best interest to call the new processor the G5, mainly because it's a name that would be easier to market. The real names of the G4 are Motorola 7437 (I don't know the actual number, so I made one up). Most likely, Apple will go with the IBM PPC 970, and call the machine the PowerMac G5.

Several months ago, I thought the G5 name would be dead when the 970 came out. So, I posted a thread about what they would call the chip, and nearly everyone responded G5.

[Tiauguinho]

G5 doesnt directly mention that it is another Motorola chip, its the Code that Apple uses for its chips. So a G5 will probably be the PPC 970. Nonetheless its a good leak, but ill take it with a grain of salt. Untill the PPC 970 comes out im holding my breath and my VISA card as well :D .

[Mr. Anderson]

G5? Why talk of that now when at WWDC we're going to be hopefully seeing the IBM 970?

Unless Apple plans on keeping the 'G' prefix on its processors.....:confused:

All this is purely speculation as far as I'm concerned and I'm just going to wait and see what happens in June....:D

D

[dabirdwell]

Doesn't "G" just mean "Generation"

A "Generation-5" PowerMac could use the PPC 970 processor.

[jethroted]

Well I would be surprised to see them name it a G5. I guess we will see what they will do in June. Since they are on bad terms with moto right now, and want to push away from them, I would guess they would change the name because in most peoples minds

G3 = moto
G4 = moto
therefore
G5 should = moto

I think they want to get away from that, and come out with a totally new name, especially since it will be 64 bit. Beacuse of that alone, It means big changes, so a new name is likely.

[QCassidy352]

I might be way off here, but doesn't IBM already make some version of the G3? Sahara?

[Wes]

Originally posted by jethroted
Well I would be surprised to see them name it a G5. I guess we will see what they will do in June. Since they are on bad terms with moto right now, and want to push away from them, I would guess they would change the name because in most peoples minds

G3 = moto
G4 = moto
therefore
G5 should = moto

I think they want to get away from that, and come out with a totally new name, especially since it will be 64 bit. Beacuse of that alone, It means big changes, so a new name is likely.

F.Y.I. Don't spread false info,

G3 = IBM
G4 = Motorola

[agreenster]

YOU dont spread false info. Motorola was the first to develop the G3, and IBM picked up the production slack much later.

link:

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-268713.html

[Wes]

The chips that apple uses now, the Saharas, have been refined by IBM. Every G3 Mac I have seen has been an IBM chip.

[dabirdwell]

It's probably safe to say that the average Mac buyer doesn't know the producer of their microprocessor.

[iJon]

all i have to say is that if he is a rep and isnt under an nda, he knows nothing because nobody is telling him anything. and if he was a rep he would work for apple, which he would be under nda. if he is a rep for a retail store, he may be under nda, but regardless if you work at a retail store he wont know anything anyways thats exciting.

iJon

[cubist]

Originally posted by Ensign Paris
Even though I am still under the NDA, that doesn't stop me giving out info that I got told by someone not under the NDA, but with access to a leaker who is inside the NDA (I myself would never leak!)


I am still struggling with this sentence. If you are under NDA you have promised not to leak information which is specially marked; call it "red" information. Any public information you are free to disseminate, we'll call "green" information.

So if you receive "red" information from someone who is not under NDA, isn't it still "red" as far as you are concerned, and you are enjoined from sharing it?

[Wyrm]

Luckily, everything is based on the PPC ISA - a joint venture of Moto, Apple, and IBM - so they all "own" the names.

The Moto G3 (75x) and the first G4 (74xx) designs were almost the same internally, with the exception of the G4 having AltiVec (which is IP owned by Moto). Later, Moto G4 designs had their pipelines lengthened to increase frequency - and were internally changed enough to be considered "new" implementations of the PPC ISA - yet they are "still" G4s. IBM did not license the AltiVec IP until recently - in order to put it in the 970. Since Apple has put SO MUCH emphasis on AltiVec (VelocityEngine), the IBM move is the clearest signal that Apple will adopt the 970 (either IBM is trying to sell them the idea, or Apple came to IBM for help... not sure which, but the latter jives more with the rumor mills).... could they call it the G4? Sure, but it will cause confusion, and look like Apple is stagnant - does the 970 offer anything new? Sure, 64bit, faster bus... better design - could it be the G5? Yeah, why not?

IBM's G3 (the 750FX) internally is much different than Moto's G3, but externally looks the same. It is currently used in the iBook.

The 970's difference is it is a derived processor from the POWER4 series (PerfOrmance With Enhanced Risc), whereas the other PPCs evolved from the original 601 PPC (which also came from POWER but long ago - POWER1)- and has a vastly different (revolutionary to the current series) internal structure.

Apologise for the info dump, but:

Doubtful the 970 works out of the box - actually, more accurately the chipset support is most likely not in the current OS X - which means it probably won't work with the current version of OS X. It will need a patch at a minimum to the current OS. The next 10.2 patch (6) is in the pipeline, but no-one has seen 970 support (we see ATI 9600 mobility support, so we can see if Apple adopts this product in the near future) - don't even think about 64 bit support yet.

This support could be in OSX1.3, and may be unveiled at the June WDC. OSX1.3 may have a 64 bit version? Rumor, rumor, rumor. A PowerMac with more memory slots? That would be cool.

There could be differing opinions on whether the XServe would get it first, or the PowerMac or the 2 together. On one hand the XServe makes more sense, since the distribution is MUCH smaller - those with XServe strategies raise your hands... now compare that to the seeming masses who want PowerMacs. On the other hand, when you are trying to portray the XServe as being stable, you don't use radically new technology... unless they sell the 970 as a Baby POWER (which already has a great history). It all depends on what yields IBM is getting on the 970 (fabbed in NY state? Assembled in?) - big yields = availability to seeming masses, small yields = XServe.

That said - they may "update" the PowerMac line before the 970 comes... big MAYBE there, but I'm sure it won't be a 970 based PowerMac. When the new 970 PowerMac comes, it will need a little more introduction. Whether Apple calls it G5 or not is up to their marketing... but I hope they won't call it G4 - and 970 is a pretty cool name - but then G5 keeps people from having to explain the 970 is better than the G4... although this will probably happen anyways, just not as bad. Apple marketing tends to love explaining things with colorful words, so I have no doubt that even if the 970 offered nothing new, Apple marketing would make it seem like the next computer revolution was coming from them.

Cheers

Wyrm

[ericthemacpope]

Originally posted by RBMaraman
I hate to disagree with you, but I must. Motorola does not own the rights to the G-Series names, Apple does. It would be in Apple's best interest to call the new processor the G5, mainly because it's a name that would be easier to market. The real names of the G4 are Motorola 7437 (I don't know the actual number, so I made one up). Most likely, Apple will go with the IBM PPC 970, and call the machine the PowerMac G5.

Several months ago, I thought the G5 name would be dead when the 970 came out. So, I posted a thread about what they would call the chip, and nearly everyone responded G5.
i don't think thats correct. Motorola does own the rights to "g". They first came out with like the g1 or something like that. Apple was just another customer. That's why apple can't call the 970 g5. and although motorola is developing a g5 the macs probably won't use them.I am pretty confident with my source ( guy, owned a apple 2 gsx, he knkows his stuff) anyway if anyone has some really contradicting evidence then i am wrong, but i am pretty sure
eric

[Postal]

I don't think that this is necessarily a "next month" deal, if this is true. Remember that Apple knows full well that PowerMac sales are currently down on account of the G4's lethargic performance. Shipments of 1 GHz G4s may stop simply because Apple figures that it has enough to ride out the gap between this and the next update, whether that update includes the PPC 970 or not.

1.25 and 1.42 GHz PowerMacs would presumably continue to ship because there are always people who will want the fastest at the time they're looking to buy.

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by ericthemacpope
i don't think thats correct. Motorola does own the rights to "g". They first came out with like the g1 or something like that. Apple was just another customer. That's why apple can't call the 970 g5. and although motorola is developing a g5 the macs probably won't use them.I am pretty confident with my source ( guy, owned a apple 2 gsx, he knkows his stuff) anyway if anyone has some really contradicting evidence then i am wrong, but i am pretty sure
eric

Actually that's not correct. My iBook contains an IBM G3. How can that be, you ask? Simple, Apple owns the "G" trademarks, and applies them to their purchased processors. The "G" stands for "Generation." My source: the United States Patent Office. Your friend doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Wyrm]

As far as I can tell G3, G4 are NOT TRADEMARKS.

Apple does NOT cite G3, G4 as a TRADEMARK (required TM, and small print) - the "Velocity Engine" is an APPLE trademark.

Moto uses the G3, G4 term
IBM uses the G3 term

PowerPC IS a TRADEMARK of IBM - so if anyone, IBM would own it.

ANYONE CAN USE G5!!!!!

So THERE!

:mad:

-- from the PowerMac PDF --
2003 Apple Computer, Inc. All rights reserved. Apple, the Apple logo, AirPort, Apple Cinema Display, AppleScript, Apple Store,
Apple Studio Display, ColorSync, DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut, Final Cut Pro, FireWire, iBook, iMac, iTunes, Mac, Macintosh, Mac OS,
PowerBook, Power Mac, QuickTime, Shake, and TrueType are trademarks of Apple Computer, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro, eMac, Finder, iCal, iChat, iDVD, iLife, iMovie, iPhoto, iPod, Keynote, Quartz, Rendezvous, SuperDrive, Velocity Engine, and Xserve are trademarks of Apple Computer, Inc. AppleCare is a service mark of Apple Computer, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. Acrobat and Adobe are trademarks or registered trademarks of Adobe Systems Incorporated in the U.S. and/or other countries. ENERGY STAR is a U.S. registered mark. FileMaker is a trademark of FileMaker, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. GeForce4 is a trademark of NVIDIA Corporation. OpenGL is a registered trademark of Silicon Graphics, Inc. PowerPC is a trademark of International Business Machines Corporation, used under license therefrom. Other product and company names mentioned herein may be trademarks of their respective companies. Product specifications are sub-
ject to change without notice.This material is provided for information purposes only; Apple assumes no liability related to its use. January 2003

[MrMacMan]

Apple owns the rights to The 'G_' but more specifically apple gives the right to the processor makers for use, IBM and Moto. I believe at one time they all owned the rights amonst themselves, but I could be wrong. edit: Anyone can use the 'G' because it would stand for generation, but if IBM vs. Moto vs. Apple, apple would probably win the 'G_' trademark

I hope They DON'T name the 970 the 'G5' because it wouldn't be the 5th generation chip. I remember a post about this.
The 970 is a derivative of the 'Power4' line of chips, namely the 4th Gen of IBM of this chipset. From the IBM point of view it would be a Gen-4 chip, from apple's it *could* be called a Gen-5 chip.

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by Wyrm
As far as I can tell G3, G4 are NOT TRADEMARKS.

Apple does NOT cite G3, G4 as a TRADEMARK (required TM, and small print) - the "Velocity Engine" is an APPLE trademark.

Moto uses the G3, G4 term
IBM uses the G3 term

PowerPC IS a TRADEMARK of IBM - so if anyone, IBM would own it.

ANYONE CAN USE G5!!!!!

So THERE!

:mad:

-- from the PowerMac PDF --
2003 Apple Computer, Inc. All rights reserved. Apple, the Apple logo, AirPort, Apple Cinema Display, AppleScript, Apple Store,
Apple Studio Display, ColorSync, DVD Studio Pro, Final Cut, Final Cut Pro, FireWire, iBook, iMac, iTunes, Mac, Macintosh, Mac OS,
PowerBook, Power Mac, QuickTime, Shake, and TrueType are trademarks of Apple Computer, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. Cinema Tools for Final Cut Pro, eMac, Finder, iCal, iChat, iDVD, iLife, iMovie, iPhoto, iPod, Keynote, Quartz, Rendezvous, SuperDrive, Velocity Engine, and Xserve are trademarks of Apple Computer, Inc. AppleCare is a service mark of Apple Computer, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. Acrobat and Adobe are trademarks or registered trademarks of Adobe Systems Incorporated in the U.S. and/or other countries. ENERGY STAR is a U.S. registered mark. FileMaker is a trademark of FileMaker, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. GeForce4 is a trademark of NVIDIA Corporation. OpenGL is a registered trademark of Silicon Graphics, Inc. PowerPC is a trademark of International Business Machines Corporation, used under license therefrom. Other product and company names mentioned herein may be trademarks of their respective companies. Product specifications are sub-
ject to change without notice.This material is provided for information purposes only; Apple assumes no liability related to its use. January 2003

Dude, chill out. I know they don't own the Trademark, but they have filed papers with the US Patent Office to acknowledge their use of the letter "G" to mean "Generation." The company my dad works for has filed papers with the patent office for 5 different products. They didn't get patents, but they do have legal rights for the material, and those papers do hold up in court. Apple did the same thing.

[Sun Baked]

Doubtful that Apple would be granted a trademark that'll stand up in court, remember Intel's claim on the x86 monikers that failed to win damages in court -- thus the actual use of trademarked names.

Plus Victoria's Secret lost their claims for trademark dilution against Victor's Secret.

But it would be interesting to see what would happen if Apple did continue with the G-series computer naming scheme...

[tjwett]

Isn't Ensign Paris the guy who supplied some very serious info a while back that turned out to be totally true and accurate? I wouldn't ignore what this dude has to say. Let's hope you're right, again. And let's hope I'm not confusing you with someone else.

[cb911]

that would be really good if they at least announced the new PowerMacs with the PPC 970! :D

anyway, are you sure it is a fact that no more 1GHz PowerMacs are shipping? that at least means that something is up with the PowerMac lines.


ask you friend if he has any info about the PowerBooks as well.;) :D

[Reed Black]

who cares what they call it?! As long as its a quality machine with much needed speed and expandablity. They can call it the Apple "IpowermacpodtitaniumaluminumGFORCE whatever..." who cares. Just bring the new machines quick. This 400mhz yikes is starting to show its age - FOR REAL!!


reed black

[Wyrm]

Who cares what they call it?!

You must be kidding... :D

We are talking about APPLE MARKETING here.
The computing industry REVOLVES around these guys.... besides we have nothing better to do than to debate the name since we won't get an official peek until MAYBE late June at the earliest.
:p

I can understand their hestiation to say "Yes we are going to use the 970"... simply because PowerMac sales would dry up in an instant (but pretty much any other PC company will say things to this effect).

I'm for something new - G5 is just a continuation of an overused theme - but better than still calling it G4... hey we're talking Marketing here - so odds are it will be called G6!

How about the Power64?

I'm sure marketing will jump all over the 64bitness of the 970 - even if they ship it with 4 dimm slots. "FIRST 64BIT PC IN THE UNIVERSE" - or "64, which is 2 times 32!" or for a dually = "128 bits of sheer POWER!!!" - woah, entering reality distortion zone....

-Wyrm

[Reed Black]

With all due respect Bro it seemed like you missed my point completely. I'm simply saying having a debate over the name is TO ME pointless. Give me one example of a name that simply sucked for apple and consequently affected their sales. Do you really think that the name of any of their machines has affected their sales?!! If apple released the FASTEST 5GHZ 1000MHZ FSB 6gig DDR or whatever is the fastest ram- TOMORROW with a horrible name (which I seriously doubt) would it stop you or any of us from buying? I dont think so. To me Apple's marketing has been pretty good. They seem to do everything right regarding their products. Consistant and stylish in design and in product naming. Clear hip and cool. The issue is the speed of their current line up, PERIOD. Bottom line give me a FAST, EXPANDABLE, fairly priced POWERMAC and I'm happy. I dont care one bit about the name. Its not going to determine if I buy a machine or not. Thats all I'm saying. And trust me I do understand what you mean regarding marketing it is important and should be handled with care. But debating over the name and getting riled up like I've seen in some of these post is crazy "TO ME" my 7cents.

reed black