The major flaw with Halo

[Dagless]

Why is it, that this one guy can single handedly take on a whole alien army? Right. That's one bit out of the way, but how the hell can he beat the army and turn/move as slowly as he does? They have some kind of warping/teleporting system but ships fly overhead without launching some big 1 hit kill missile at him.

Are the Covenant suffering from tunnel vision? Some form of brain damage (though they do seem to speak quite good English, funny choice of language)?
How they did get to where they were being such an under-developed race?

Why can it only take Master Chief to take them down, surely with how rubbish the Covenant are they could just wipe them out easily without the need of a hero?

Surely?

Basically... Why are the Covenant so crap?

[TheMonarch]

Whoa... Thats like asking why Mario is still a plumber when he never actually does his job...

It just makes for a better game...


:cool:

[Cassie]

I agree with blaskillet4.

It's a game, and a lot of games are like this. The "hero" who can do everything.

Accept it, and move on.

[yellow]

Hmm I thought the flaw was that it was a sucktacular game..

[sb58]

You think the flaw is that the master chief can take on this armada of aliens?
not the fact that there is an armada of aliens?

[Max Payne]

I hate Halo... I tried it for two days and I couldn't stand it.

You can ask the same question regarding Silvester Stalone. :D

[Unorthodox]

I think the biggest flaw is this, "What/When does he eat?"

[bowens]

I think the biggest flaw is this, "What/When does he eat?"

Oh, he eats babies. You didn't know that?

[jdechko]

Jimmi, you think too much. :)

It's like any "one-man-army" type game. This one just happens to be a little more un-realistic.

How about Half-Life?

From getting to "know" you on these boards, I realize that these kind of games (complex 3D, army-of-one, shooters) aren't your cup of tea. But games (and TV and movies for that matter) are supposed to allow the person viewing/playing to escape from their own reality (at some level of immersion) and put themselves into the reality of someone else. It's what makes games like Metroid Prime, Zelda, Mario, and Final Fantasy so good: that you develop a sort of bond with the protagonist.

[~Shard~]

Why not make the complaint then that all games of this nature are flawed and unrealistic because 1 hit never kills you - many heroes appear to be able to take multiple hits before dying, and if they grab a little "health pack" on the run they can magically become 100% again. :p ;) :cool:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Next to Halflife2 Halo is crap. I wont even mention its consoleitis.

[Dagless]

I mean don't get me wrong, Halo 1 is the best console FPS I've played so I don't hate the series. I just find it a little inconsistent. Why is it only him, why are the Covenant *that* stupid? etc. Instead of rushing out a crap story (2) I wished they answered some questions.

Someday a studio will bring out a realistic FPS.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind about the story if Bungie didn't focus on it so much. Mario gets away with it, theres no explanation, theres nothing to know! Nintendo have never focused on the Mario storyline. How could it be realistically done?

Like I said. If Bungie focus on the storyline then why can't I ask these questions :p , especially with their history.

[Dagless]

Next to Halflife2 Halo is crap. I wont even mention its consoleitis.

Yea at least HL2 has realistic enemies, fast to react, use strategy etc. The grenade throwing argument in the HL2:ep 2 trailer was hilarious :D

[xPismo]

Well its a FPS game, so they all do that... but:

Why is it, that this one guy can single handedly take on a whole alien army? Right. That's one bit out of the way, but how the hell can he beat the army and turn/move as slowly as he does? They have some kind of warping/teleporting system but ships fly overhead without launching some big 1 hit kill missile at him.

He isn't. Its a big war, you are only seeing his view of it. Hence why Halo2 felt like the trailer to the game...

Are the Covenant suffering from tunnel vision? Some form of brain damage (though they do seem to speak quite good English, funny choice of language)?
How they did get to where they were being such an under-developed race?

Underdeveloped? They seem quite good at getting the job done. The english part... well lets say that M$'s fault. The Cov originally had their own language.

Why can it only take Master Chief to take them down, surely with how rubbish the Covenant are they could just wipe them out easily without the need of a hero?

They seem to be doing a good job at erasing most of the human fighting population in battle. Don't we all need a hero?

Surely?

Basically... Why are the Covenant so crap?

I got it, you need to up to Legendary. Its a whole 'nother world. :D

[SpankyPenzaanz]

I mean don't get me wrong, Halo 1 is the best console FPS I've played so I don't hate the series. I just find it a little inconsistent. Why is it only him, why are the Covenant *that* stupid? etc. Instead of rushing out a crap story (2) I wished they answered some questions.

Someday a studio will bring out a realistic FPS.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind about the story if Bungie didn't focus on it so much. Mario gets away with it, theres no explanation, theres nothing to know! Nintendo have never focused on the Mario storyline. How could it be realistically done?

Like I said. If Bungie focus on the storyline then why can't I ask these questions :p , especially with their history.

The story is expanded on in the books. They also answer as to why covenant speak english, why they are where they are yet appear to be dumb at times (they are religous zealots with a caste system in short). I do agree that they(Bungie) could have done beter explanations in the game but it would have made the game slower (I think). One of the most realistic fps I have seen has to be the brothers in arms series.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

The books are written in such a way you could finish one a day and there are only 4

The Fall of Reach (Before Halo1)
The Flood (Halo1)
First Strike (between Halo1 & 2)
Ghosts of Onyx (Concurrent with events from Halo2)

[greatdevourer]

The real question is:
He's this supersoldier who wears about half a tonne of armour, he can flip tanks with one hand, yet the recoil off a single SMG overpowers him?! :eek: The laws of physics must warp around this guy, because either that gun would literally smash a normal soldier to bits with the force, or his armour should absorb the recoil athousandfold :confused:

[apfhex]

The story is expanded on in the books. They also answer as to why covenant speak english, why they are where they are yet appear to be dumb at times (they are religous zealots with a caste system in short). I do agree that they(Bungie) could have done beter explanations in the game but it would have made the game slower (I think).
Yeah, I strongly suggest reading the books (well, "The Flood" wasn't very good, it was written by a different author), they ad tons to the Halo story. I guess they were written after the game, so that's why you don't get much of the larger story out of the game. Seems like Halo 2 (and probably 3) tie in much better though.

In fact the story is why I like the series so much, even if I wasn't exactly ecstatic about the first game (haven't been able to play Halo 2 yet).

The books also give you an idea why the SPARTAN-II's are some awesome and make the impossible possible.

[BoyBach]

You think the flaw is that the master chief can take on this armada of aliens?
not the fact that there is an armada of aliens?


That reminds me of my brothers 'Superman Returns' review:

"It's OK, but a bit far-fetched!"

:)

[tominated]

The real question is:
He's this supersoldier who wears about half a tonne of armour, he can flip tanks with one hand, yet the recoil off a single SMG overpowers him?! :eek: The laws of physics must warp around this guy, because either that gun would literally smash a normal soldier to bits with the force, or his armour should absorb the recoil athousandfold :confused:

So true!

[Malus]

Why is Sonic blue?
Why is Kirby a cute little pink thing?
Why doesn't Link talk?
Why didn't Cloud revive Aeiris with a pheonix down?
Why does Samas Aran kick so much butt?


And the most important question of all...

The gameboy Tingle game (from zelda).....WHY?!?

[Earendil]

First I'll start by saying what everyone else has said... it's just a game.
If it were realistic to the extreme, than you would be a civilian and dead in the first 15 seconds. great game.

You'll also notice that in movies people in fist fights can take dozens upon dozens of hits to the face with a bare hand (not to mention metal items) and keep walking, talking, and swinging. The human head can not take that. Heck, a man can knock another man out with a padded boxing glove...

However, now I will explain what I can, because I actually like the game, and the story, and have been following Bungie games since Marathon. I'm well aware you don't like the game and won't take anything I say seriously...however it's a game, you shouldn't take anything I say seriously anyway :rolleyes:

Why is it, that this one guy can single handedly take on a whole alien army? Right.

He isn't single handedly taking on the army? In the first Halo he happens to be on a ship that while running from a battle the humans are losing quite badly (not to mention the planet they were protecting being glassed) decided to "randomly" warp out in hopes of escape. A small task force of covenant ships were sent to chase, they all ended up on Halo and the story begins.

All of the Chiefs missions are short strike and retreat style missions. No where is he running into an army of even 40 covenants, let alone "the entire army".

That's one bit out of the way, but how the hell can he beat the army and turn/move as slowly as he does? They have some kind of warping/teleporting system but ships fly overhead without launching some big 1 hit kill missile at him.

I think an easy parallel can be drawn between that, and any war the US (or any advanced modern army) has fought against the rag tag. Bombs only go so far before you have to get down and dirty.

The reason they haven't glassed Halo while the master chief was on is because they see it as a holy artifact, and are not going to risk damage in order to kill one little human that they don't see much of a problem with.

Early on in Halo 1 the covenant become quite preoccupied with the flood. In Halo 2 they are suffering from a division within their races. They also don't see the master chief as a threat, and see the humans as little things to slaughter, which most humans are. The fact that master chief can actually return fire for fire probably hasn't made it on the covenant radar yet. And since when was winning a skirmish about how fast you can run? (but, slow movement is for gameplay, and I quite enjoy it compared to UT and the like).

Are the Covenant suffering from tunnel vision? Some form of brain damage (though they do seem to speak quite good English, funny choice of language)?

Their language is translated on the fly by either his suit, the chip in his brain, or Cortana, I forget which. However some of them have not been translated, Jackles for example.

How they did get to where they were being such an under-developed race?
They are a consortium of races, or "covenant" if you will ;-)
There are the lowest level of grunts, who are quite unintelligent but follow orders and are good fodder for the smarter more developed races.

Also much of the covenant technology is stolen from the Forunners, for which they may not have a complete understanding, but which gave them a huge head start.

Why can it only take Master Chief to take them down, surely with how rubbish the Covenant are they could just wipe them out easily without the need of a hero?

Because the war that is going on is happening in more places than some secluded ring between master chief and a few elites. If that were the entirety of the war, we wouldn't be having a problem. However the Covenant ships mow through us in space quite effectively. They have the ability to destroy or "glass" entire planets to the point where they become uninhabitable. Regular marines stand a chance against grunts, but not 1v1 with an elite. How vehicles do damage to theirs, but they return more fire power.


Basically... Why are the Covenant so crap?

You aren't playing on legendary :P
But really, it's a game in which we are allowed a chance of winning. I find Halo's premise and story line for more convincing and realistic than most 3rd person shooters. Heck, it's more convincing than most games in general!!

But then I've invested some time in learning details of the story, and have even read one of the books. It's actually amazing how much story there is there... I believe a question was posed to Jason Jones as to how much of the story that he has written is actually making it into the game. I believe his response was "a tenth". Other little pieces leak out through books, interviews, and confirmed ramblings, but no where near the entirety of it will ever probably be published in any format.

There you go, now you may dismiss me as a nutcase ;-)

~Earendil
~Tyler

[wmmk]

Hmm I thought the flaw was that it was a sucktacular game..

totally agreed! I mean, capture the flag?!?!?!? how stupid can games get?

also, who's that in your 'tar and account picture?

[Earendil]

The real question is:
He's this supersoldier who wears about half a tonne of armour, he can flip tanks with one hand, yet the recoil off a single SMG overpowers him?! :eek: The laws of physics must warp around this guy, because either that gun would literally smash a normal soldier to bits with the force, or his armour should absorb the recoil athousandfold :confused:

They can't think of everything, but let me offer up a possibility.

Who says his armor ways half a ton? Part of what makes him so strong is his cybernetic body, and the other half his armor. I see no reason it has to weight very much at all and yet still be strong enough to take a few hits. After all once his shield is down his armor sure doesn't help him much.

So that handles the mass equation>

Now the physics. Let's suppose he did weight half a ton. Ones ability to lift, due to strength, does not enable a person to silence the effects of vibration. I can toss a shotgun some ways, but I still get a kick from it, as I'm sure Shaq would as well, or a would class weightlifter.

Also let's assume that his armor suit and cybernetics are reactive to a force that he himself puts into something, which I believe is how it is explained. You push, the suit senses this, and pushes harder. If you wanted to use that strength to counteract a vibration of two SMG sub machine guns you would need a suit that not only responded to you, but acted FOR you and did predictive analysis of the vibration far beyond human ability to counter each motion of the vibrating unit.

What makes more sense to me is to put a dampener in the SMG its self in order to absorb some of that recoil and vibration. That would be more effective that any strength in any armor.

And in the end, it's game ;-)

[Dagless]

Why doesn't Link talk?

Why does Samas Aran kick so much butt?

Shigsy said Link will never talk because it gives players a chance to give Link any voice, plus it removes regions and accents. In Japan he's some kind of fairy/elf/magical thing, but in England he's pretty much Robin Hood. If they ever gave Link an American accent I would stop playing. :D no, really.

Samus? She's supposedly taught by the Chozo. Which is funny, they never wore that suit and they were wiped out. I don't get that at all.

Thanks Earendil, you cleared some stuff up :)

[poppe]

Play on legendary and you'll have close to one hit kills. Not quite but still. I mean you want to talk about fake games... how about call of duty 3? How exactly can someone in WW2 just heal themselves? I'm watching my friend play and he got hit 5 times by some machine gun so what does he do, well he ducks and covers until the red circle on the screen is gone and he is healed again...

[sikkinixx]

must you whine about everything jimmi? (and I realize the irony of whining about you whining)

How the can Batman beat every damn villian every time no matter how perfect their scheme may seem? Why does Superman ALWAYS WIN (well...cept when Doomsday killed him) Why does Spiderman win AND get the girl (at least in the movies)?

Because they are super-heroes. Thats all Masterchief is. Everyone in Halo has this awe for him/

besides all that...games about aliens flying over and trying to use some giant metal ring that has the flood on it and coming to earth and killing everyone and the like are SO realistic... :p


how can Mario beat a giant lizard thing?! how can Link save the world time and time again. Hasn't Ganon learned a thing or two? How does that dude from Doom 3 manage to defeat hell itself?

[Sdashiki]

Only one thing needs to be spoken about, that Bungie was developing Halo for OSX, exclusively if I recall correctly....

one FMV at an Apple keynote and then silence until M$ buys Bungie and pretty much, like everything else, steals Halo and makes it the flagship game for the XBOX.


Seeing as how Halo did so freakin well, for a somewhat "ok" game IMO, it could have been THE boon to the Apple gaming everyone wanted.

But ol' M$ ruined it, again.

[poppe]

Only one thing needs to be spoken about, that Bungie was developing Halo for OSX, exclusively if I recall correctly....

one FMV at an Apple keynote and then silence until M$ buys Bungie and pretty much, like everything else, steals Halo and makes it the flagship game for the XBOX.


Seeing as how Halo did so freakin well, for a somewhat "ok" game IMO, it could have been THE boon to the Apple gaming everyone wanted.

But ol' M$ ruined it, again.

is this true?

[Dagless]

is this true?

Indeed.

[fall3n]

This is like asking how in a Hollywood movie why do people go flying 100 feet when they are shot. Because it's entertaining. Plain and simple. That's the point of a GAME; to be entertaining. If you sit around and analyze why nothing is realy in a GAME you'll go crazy. Just play it and have fun and laugh at all the rediculousness of it.

[poppe]

Indeed.

That's freaking nuts... though I wonder if Halo would have kicked but on OS X (no offense) just with FPS being lower than Windows equivalent and what not...

[Dagless]

This is like asking how in a Hollywood movie why do people go flying 100 feet when they are shot. Because it's entertaining. Plain and simple. That's the point of a GAME; to be entertaining. If you sit around and analyze why nothing is realy in a GAME you'll go crazy. Just play it and have fun and laugh at all the rediculousness of it.

Hah, I've never taken to them kind of action films either :p
I'm very picky about my entertainment. Now Garth Merenghi or Green Wing are ridiculous ;)

[JackAxe]

Because supposed "hardcore" gamers can take on anything with their uber thumb. :)

<]=)

[Earendil]

That's freaking nuts... though I wonder if Halo would have kicked but on OS X (no offense) just with FPS being lower than Windows equivalent and what not...

And that was the sickening sadness of it all.
See, the ONLY reason OSX games suck have nothing to do with the hardware.
A: They are almost all ported from Windows code.
B: They are ported fast.
C: Because of B, the port isn't all that great.
D: The Mac version hits the market later than the PC version, and so it doesn't look as good for "it's time".

Now Halo was being made by Bungie, an absolutely incredible gaming company. Anyone that doubts that hasn't been watching the biz for long, or was following the windows side only. Their first* game, Marathon (an fps) was released for sale a mere month after Doom, and it blew Doom out of the water. Bungie was a month off from going down in history as the company with the first fps.

After Marathon, which was Mac only, came Marathon 2 and Marathon Inifinity. All Deved on Mac's, all running on macs. The only one to ever see a windows machine was Marathon 2. After those games came Myth and Myth 2, both Mac titles, that were also released for Windows. Amazing games for their time, and they still set standards that people just didn't follow (alah Starcraft and Warcraft 3.. damnit Blizzard sucks...).

Halo was being worked on back in 1999, and would have been released 2 years before the xBox version if it weren't for the buyout.

HOWEVER, Bungie has said they they were in financial trouble. It was a daily struggle to find the money to continue their passions, while also supporting families. When Microsoft offered them Financial freedom to never worry, have all the tools they needed, and be a lunch title for a new gaming console, they took it.

The reality is that Halo had a strong chance of being the most amazing fps shooter of it's time, if it had been released on schedule for PCs. However even more likely is that it never would have seen the light of day, and Bungie would have gone under before they could finish it.

I was there when the buyout happened, the ENTIRE community was shell shocked and hated Bungie for it, and I'm sure they didn't do it easily. But damn... I grew up playing Myth as a kid with some of the guys now working for them. They are an incredible company with highly talented people.

For Information, fun, or nostalgia, here is a game trailers from Bungie software from summer 2000 (demoed at E3).
http://vnfiles.ign.com/halovault/movies/halo_e3_2000.mpeg (150mb)

And this, a shorter 5 minute interview with the game developers at Bungie in early 2000, with a tour/preview of Halo
http://www.gamespot.com/users/Hallway_Giant/video_player?id=JHIwkTus5bsFuzE

Almost brings a tear to my eye...

~Tyler


*Actually Bungie has made quite a few more games than I list. Including the first(I believe) networked Mac game.

[greatdevourer]

They can't think of everything, but let me offer up a possibility.

Who says his armor ways half a ton? Part of what makes him so strong is his cybernetic body, and the other half his armor. I see no reason it has to weight very much at all and yet still be strong enough to take a few hits. After all once his shield is down his armor sure doesn't help him much.

So that handles the mass equation>

Now the physics. Let's suppose he did weight half a ton. Ones ability to lift, due to strength, does not enable a person to silence the effects of vibration. I can toss a shotgun some ways, but I still get a kick from it, as I'm sure Shaq would as well, or a would class weightlifter.

Also let's assume that his armor suit and cybernetics are reactive to a force that he himself puts into something, which I believe is how it is explained. You push, the suit senses this, and pushes harder. If you wanted to use that strength to counteract a vibration of two SMG sub machine guns you would need a suit that not only responded to you, but acted FOR you and did predictive analysis of the vibration far beyond human ability to counter each motion of the vibrating unit.

What makes more sense to me is to put a dampener in the SMG its self in order to absorb some of that recoil and vibration. That would be more effective that any strength in any armor.

And in the end, it's game ;-) Iirc, the suit's weight is mentioned somewhere (can't find linkage atm, but I'm looking). However, considering that the weight of a Deasert Eagle is enough to counteract it's recoil (what you think is recoil is actually that huge slide), I'm sure his suit would weigh enough to do the same for a low-power SMG

[Earendil]

Iirc, the suit's weight is mentioned somewhere (can't find linkage atm, but I'm looking). However, considering that the weight of a Deasert Eagle is enough to counteract it's recoil (what you think is recoil is actually that huge slide), I'm sure his suit would weigh enough to do the same for a low-power SMG

A: Recoil and vibration from a machine gun are two different things. In principle, similar, but counteracting them is different.
B: The suits weight only matters if the barrel of the gun is braced against the body. If it is hand held and at arms length (like in a dual wielding situation) then the only counter acting weight is the arm and the armor on the arm. Even then you could say that once you hit a join it no longer applies. You could argue that the only counteracting weight is the hand it's self.

I can't even keep my phone from vibrating and shaking my hand, however the mass of my arm is more than enough to stop and catch my phone if it were thrown at me at a decent speed.

[Haoshiro]

Haha, jimmi... I think you made your post having been away from Halo for some time! Earendil answered most of the questions, but I thought I'd chime in too.

It's true the games are only a fraction of the story, and there are always plenty of marines to help you out. But Master Chief does have shield regeneration, that's a good advantage.

Also, he only turns slow if you have your sensitivity set to low. You can in fact do a fast 180 degree turn, but you have to work both sticks together.

About eating: He takes off his helmet and, you know, eats. Why don't they put this in the game as a cutscene or minigame? Because it would be boring to watch, plus this isn't Warioware or Mario Party, minigames don't work here! :P

About recoil/etc: You see, this is more simple then you are suggesting. You *can* stop the effects of recoil, they just let YOU do it. A good Halo player will be able to hit a target with SMGs all day long. If you'd like a bonus reason: Weapon Balance.

Edit: Oh, and yeah, play on Legendary already! :P The other settings are less realistic so the general public can actually take part in the action for more then a few minutes... Think of them as "edited" version of a film. ;)

[Dagless]

I have completed it on Legendary, it was the only way to add challenge to the game! Halo 2 didn't hold my attention long enough to finish Legendary.

[Haoshiro]

I have completed it on Legendary, it was the only way to add challenge to the game! Halo 2 didn't hold my attention long enough to finish Legendary.

Then you know how MC manages to complete his objectives... unlimited restarts at checkpoints! haha.

[sb58]

That's freaking nuts... though I wonder if Halo would have kicked but on OS X (no offense) just with FPS being lower than Windows equivalent and what not...
if Halo had stayed on its original course, it would have been an RTS too.