If you don't believe in Santa, how do you explain...

[Don't panic]

how christmas gifts materialize under the tree? When Spontaneous Generation has been proven to be false by Louis Pasteur.

[MovieCutter]

how christmas gifts materialize under the tree? When Spontaneous Generation has been proven to be false by Louis Pasteur.

good question!!! I've been wondering that myself...that and how god can exist when Spontaneous Generation has been proven to be false by Louis Pasteur.

[yg17]

I don't believe in Santa. Hannukah Harry leaves gifts under my menorah :D

[Don't panic]

I don't believe in Santa. Hannukah Harry leaves gifts under my menorah :D

yeah, but he works for santa (i think he is one of the senior VPs)

[Don't panic]

and here is the proof: NORAD can track him with their radars!

http://www.northpole.com/NoradSanta.asp

[Jasonbot]

You guys are lying right? This is actually kinda suck. He does exist, just not with the sleigh and reindeers anymore. He's got a jet-car. How do you think he gets to everyone in the world in just one night?

[Sdashiki]

You guys are lying right? This is actually kinda suck. He does exist, just not with the sleigh and reindeers anymore. He's got a jet-car. How do you think he gets to everyone in the world in just one night?

um, how did he do the same thing in the past then?

he always made his rounds in one night.

maybe now he does it in style, but its always been just as quick.

:D

[Don't panic]

um, how did he do the same thing in the past then?

he always made his rounds in one night.

maybe now he does it in style, but its always been just as quick.

:D

but now there are more people than before.
I think he must have some sort of time-freezing machine.
and short-distance teleporting powers to get inside apartments without fireplaces.

[shecky]

If you don't believe in Santa, how do you explain how christmas gifts materialize under the tree?

the Flying Spaghetti Monster puts them there.

duh :rolleyes:

[MrSmith]

Even though I'm 105 I will never stop believing that my loving parents put presents under the tree for me. Say what you will.

[MovieCutter]

the Flying Spaghetti Monster puts them there.

duh :rolleyes:

I guess that's just as believable as the idea of Santa Claus...or God for that matter.

[devilot]

he always made his rounds in one night.That was my first thought, too.

Seriously though, I think he's part of a sextuplets. :p

[Jasonbot]

but now there are more people than before.
I think he must have some sort of time-freezing machine.
and short-distance teleporting powers to get inside apartments without fireplaces.

Thats the only solution possible! Or maybe he has krypton powered sleigh powers of some kind since machines are pretty new and he's been doing this for ages.

Fortunately the one thing I've never received fo christmas is a lump of coal so Santa is pretty cool!

[adroit]

Easily explained:


1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378 million according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there's at least one good child in each.

3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc.

This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set(2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

In conclusion - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.


Rebuttal: Several key points are overlooked by this callous, amateurish "study."

1) Flying reindeer
First, as admitted, it is possible that a flying reindeer can be found. I would agree that it would be quite an unusual find, but they might exist.
Second, as is widely known (due to the excellent historical documentary "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," the flying reindeer are not a previously unknown species of reindeer, but were in fact given the power of flight due to eating magic acorns. As is conclusively proven in "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" (a no punches pulled look at life in Santa's village), this ability has bred true in subsequent generations of reindeer - obviously the magic acorns imprinted their power on a dominant gene sequence within the reindeer DNA strand.

2) Number of households
This figure overlooks several key facts. First of all, the first major schism in the Church split the Eastern Churches, centered in Byzantium, from the Western, which remained centered in Rome. This occurred prior to the Gregorian correction to the Julian calendar. The Eastern churches (currently called Orthodox Churches) do not recognize the Gregorian correction for liturgical events, and their Christmas is as a result several days after the Western Churches. So Santa gets two shots at delivering toys.
Secondly, the figure of 3.5 children per household is based on the gross demographic average, which includes households with no children at all. The number of children per household, when figured as an average for households with children, would therefore have to be adjusted upward. Also, the largest single Christian denomination is Roman Catholic, who, as we all know, breed like rabbits. Due to the predominance of Catholics within Christian households, the total number of households containing Christian children would have to be adjusted downward to reflect the overloading of Catholics beyond a standard deviation from the median.
Third, the assertion that each home would contain at least one good child would be reasonable enough if there were in fact an even 3.5 children per household. However, since the number of children per household is distributed integrally, there are a significant number (on the order of several million) of one child Christian households. Even though only children are notoriously spoiled and therefore disproportionately inclined towards being naughty, since it's the holidays we'll be generous and give them a fifty-fifty chance of being nice. This removes one half of the single child households from Santa's delivery schedule, which has already been reduced by the removal of the Orthodox households from the first delivery run. Alternately, what if anti-selection applies, and homes with good kids tend to have more than their share of good kids, and other homes have nothing except terrorists in diapers? Let's drop that number of homes down a few more percent.
Fourth, this analysis has relied on a uniform distribution of children across homes. Toronto/Yorkville, or Toronto/Cabbagetown, or other yuppie neighbourhoods, have probably less than the average (and don't forget the DINK and SINK homes (Double Income No Kids, Single Income No Kids)), while the families with 748 starving children that they keep showing on Vision TV while trying to pick our pockets would skew that 15% of homes down a few percent.
Fifth, Santa would have to Fedex a number of packages ahead of time, since he would not be able to fly into Air Force Bases, or into tower-controlled areas near airports. He's get shot at over certain sections of the Middle East, and the no-fly zones in Iraq, so he'd probably use DHL there. Subtract some more homes.
So the number of homes Santa needs to visit is substantially reduced from the initial estimate.

3) Santa's delivery run
These all suffer from the dubious supposition that there is only one Santa Claus. The name "Santa" is obviously either Spanish or Italian, two ethnic groups which are both overwhelmingly Catholic. The last name Claus suggests a joint German/Italian background. His beginnings, battling the Burgermeister Meisterburger, suggest he grew up in Bavaria (also predominantly Catholic). The Kaiser style helmets of the Burgermeister's guards, coupled with the relative isolation of the village, suggest that his youth was at the very beginning of Prussian influence in Germany. Thus, Santa and Mrs. Claus have been together for well over one hundred years. If you think that after a hundred years of living at the North Pole with nights six months long that they remain childless, you are insane. There have therefore been over five generations of Clauses, breeding for over one hundred years. Since they are Catholic, their exponential population increase would obviously have a gain higher than the world population as a whole. There have therefore been more than enough new Santas to overcome the population increase of the world. So in fact, Santa has an easier time of it now than he did when he first started out.
As to speed, Einsteinian Theory that says time does strange things as you move faster. In fact, when you go faster than the speed of light time runs backward, if you do a straight line projection, connect the dots and just ignore any singularity you might find right at the speed of light. So Santa could go faster than light, visit all the good children which are not uniformly distributed by either concentration in each home or by number of children per household, and get home before he left so he can digest all those stale cookies and warm milk.
But Santa only has reindeer, so where does he get the power to move that fast? You calculated the answer! The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. This is an ample supply of energy for the maneuvering, acceleration, etc, that would be required of the loaded sleigh. The reindeer don't evaporate or incinerate because of this energy, they accelerate. What do you think they have antlers for, fighting over females? Think of antlers as furry solar array panels.

Santa dead, indeed - some people will twist any statistic to "prove" their cynical theory.

[Thomas Veil]

It's CLINTON's fault!!

[obeygiant]

It's CLINTON's fault!!

It's Bush's fault. Be real!

[psychofreak]

I actually saw santa. I took a picture as proof. Oddly it looks like my uncle is a santa-suit.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

So does Santa believe in Jesus...??? :confused:

[yellow]

Elves invented time travel back in olden times. Dummies.

[pseudobrit]

So does Santa believe in Jesus...??? :confused:

Santa > Jesus.

Jesus never gives you presents.

[Doctor Q]

There was a hilarious skit on SNL where the kids were disappointed that Santa didn't come to their house... again. Each year they tried very hard to be good, but Santa didn't come. The funny part was that the parents had the same problem and were just as puzzled: They too tried to be good and had no idea why Santa didn't come to their house. :D

[Thomas Veil]

A friend told me there was a hilarious skit on Mad TV (okay, I know that sounds hard to believe) about Santa. They did it as a Dateline NBC segment where they got Santa to show up at that pedophile house, and the reporter demanded to know why he likes to have so many little kids sit in his lap.

[plinden]

A friend told me there was a hilarious skit on Mad TV (okay, I know that sounds hard to believe) about Santa. They did it as a Dateline NBC segment where they got Santa to show up at that pedophile house, and the reporter demanded to know why he likes to have so many little kids sit in his lap.

Mad TV or last week's Studio 60? Or both? If so, who plagiarized whom?

[Jasonbot]

Santa > Jesus.

Jesus never gives you presents.

Um no! Jesus gave the biggest present ever. He died for everyone dude!

[yg17]

Um no! Jesus gave the biggest present ever. He died for everyone dude!

Didn't die for me. So he still owes me a present :p

[Jasonbot]

Didn't die for me. So he still owes me a present :p

Well even if you didn't ask for it he did it anyways.. -I sense a religious debate- >So I'll just leave it @ that<

[balamw]

Didn't die for me. So he still owes me a present :p
Back to the South Park references...

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/southparkchefaidmrhankeyschristmasclassics/oholynight.htm

O holy night! The stars are brightly shining,
It is the night of our dear Savior's b-b-b-birth.
O holy night! The something something distant
It is the night with the Christmas trees and pie.
Jesus was born and so I get presents.
Thank you, Jesus for being born.

B

[solvs]

Well, there was a Santa. But he's dead now. :o Sorry if I have to be the one to break it to you.

[Queso]

Elves invented time travel back in olden times. Dummies.
Or maybe they invented it in the future :p

[Jasonbot]

Or maybe they invented it in the future :p

NO! Your tenses are all wrong, when talking about the FUTURE you must use future tense, it's still going to happen. Correction: Or mybe they are going to invent it in the future. This way the 'future elves' have already invaded our time for the good of all the good little girls & boys of the world!

[takao]

Santa > Jesus.

Jesus never gives you presents.

he does .. if you live in catholic southern germany/austria .. here the "Christkind" (="christ child") actually brings the presents ;)

santa only comes in those families where halloween is also celebrated :rolleyes:

(but St. Nikolaus brings sweets, oranges, apples and nuts on the 6th december because after all _that_ is his day)

[Queso]

NO! Your tenses are all wrong, when talking about the FUTURE you must use future tense, it's still going to happen. Correction: Or mybe they are going to invent it in the future. This way the 'future elves' have already invaded our time for the good of all the good little girls & boys of the world!
And have already been doing so for millennia. They've obviously invented time travel in the future or they won't be able to give presents out in the past this year. :D

[solvs]

Y'all know Jesus wasn't actually born in Dec right? Being a killjoy of truth again, but this was actually a pagan ceremony taken over by the Christians as a compromise, as inclusion. It wasn't even officially celebrated for awhile, because fundies thought it was evil. Don't you people watch the Boondocks?

Santa's still dead though.

[Don't panic]

Santa's still dead though.

be very careful Solvs, you're threading on thin ice...


Grinchy Teacher Sacked For Taking Santa's Magic Away (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7005829297)

December 12, 2006 5:37 a.m. EST

West Midlands, England (AHN) - A primary school teacher from Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands in England has been sacked from his job after telling her students there is no Santa.

[Queso]

So the teacher was sacked from his job for telling her students there's no Santa.

Don't you just love the BBC? Maybe they should give this lot some proof-reading lessons :D

[Jaffa Cake]

Don't you just love the BBC? Maybe they should give this lot some proof-reading lessons :DTo be fair, the link wasn't to a BBC story... ;)

[yellow]

Or maybe they invented it in the future :p

Ow! My brain hurts.

[princealfie]

Ow! My brain hurts.

Want a free Zune then?

[Jasonbot]

Want a free Zune then?

That'll just make it worse:eek:

[yellow]

Want a free Zune then?

Ow! My sense of fair use, good design, and freindly business practices hurts!

[princealfie]

Well, there was a Santa. But he's dead now. :o Sorry if I have to be the one to break it to you.

I do believe in Bad Santa.

[Doctor Q]

So the teacher was sacked from his job for telling her students there's no Santa.

Don't you just love the BBC? Maybe they should give this lot some proof-reading lessons :DNot to mention the wrong form of the word "exist" and the missing object after "told":Parents of students from the Boldmere Junior school in Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands said their children were heartbroken after their 30-year-old supply teacher told that Santa does not exists.And what is a "supply teacher"?

[Queso]

And what is a "supply teacher"?
A temporary teacher who comes into the school when the full-time teaching numbers are down due to illness etc.

[skunk]

Or one who deals drugs to the kiddies on the side.

[Queso]

Or one who deals drugs to the kiddies on the side.
:D

Careful, they've gone on strike over less than that.

[Doctor Q]

A temporary teacher who comes into the school when the full-time teaching numbers are down due to illness etc.Thanks for the lesson, dynamicv. Here we call them "substitute" teachers.

Of course, if you pair a supply teacher with a demand teacher, they could teach economics to primary school kids! :D Perhaps they'd explain to them how Santa can afford to buy or build all those toys.

[Queso]

Of course, if you pair a supply teacher with a demand teacher, they could teach economics to primary school kids! :D Perhaps they'd explain to them how Santa can afford to buy or build all those toys.
I thought they paid for it all by smuggling the rest of the year. I mean, there's no chance of Customs catching magic reindeer.

You can be shocked, but it's all in a good cause :p

[xsedrinam]

I thought they paid for it all by smuggling the rest of the year. I mean, there's no chance of Customs catching magic reindeer.

You can be shocked, but it's all in a good cause :p
Sshhhh. Don't uncover the North Hood's secret. :)

[princealfie]

So, basically, what is the ultimate purpose of Santa? Apart from that the fact that he isn't being used for stem cell research...

[jelloshotsrule]

There was a hilarious skit on SNL where the kids were disappointed that Santa didn't come to their house... again. Each year they tried very hard to be good, but Santa didn't come. The funny part was that the parents had the same problem and were just as puzzled: They too tried to be good and had no idea why Santa didn't come to their house. :D

"we put out cow's milk, goat's milk, for god's sake we even put out moose's milk! what does that fat sleigh-riding son of a bitch want from us?!?!?!"

"shhhh shhhhh, honey, he can hear us!"

[pseudobrit]

Um no! Jesus gave the biggest present ever. He died for everyone dude!

Dead Jesus doesn't put an iPod under the tree, dude!

[Macaddicttt]

Dead Jesus doesn't put an iPod under the tree, dude!

I don't see why these types of comments are tolerated. You're just making fun of his beliefs without any intention of a serious debate on them. You're just trolling.

[MovieCutter]

I don't see why these types of comments are tolerated. You're just making fun of his beliefs without any intention of a serious debate on them. You're just trolling.

He's right though...dead Jesus DOESN'T put iPods under the tree. Jesus never did anything for me anyway, besides, I don't know that I want a 2,000 year old corpse of a lunatic who thinks he was the son of an all powerful invisible man sneaking around my place eating cookies.

[Queso]

I don't see why these types of comments are tolerated. You're just making fun of his beliefs without any intention of a serious debate on them. You're just trolling.
In case you didn't notice, this entire thread is a troll. :rolleyes:

[Chundles]

Dead Jesus doesn't put an iPod under the tree, dude!

Post of the Day!!

I'm still giggling. Well done sunshine. :D

[obeygiant]

I don't see why these types of comments are tolerated. You're just making fun of his beliefs without any intention of a serious debate on them. You're just trolling.

seconded. Some people have so much disdain for Christianity that they will lash out any chance they get and try to be as sacreligious as possible. its really not necessary.

Christmas is a celebration of Christs birth. And was Saint Nicholas the "festive gift-giver" born around 300 a.d.

oh and ,btw, this entire thread is a mock thread poking fun at another thread in which someone chose to challenge the theory of evolution.

[obeygiant]

He's right though...dead Jesus DOESN'T put iPods under the tree. Jesus never did anything for me anyway, besides, I don't know that I want a 2,000 year old corpse of a lunatic who thinks he was the son of an all powerful invisible man sneaking around my place eating cookies.

looks like you've had a very unhappy childhood. :(

[Macaddicttt]

He's right though...dead Jesus DOESN'T put iPods under the tree. Jesus never did anything for me anyway, besides, I don't know that I want a 2,000 year old corpse of a lunatic who thinks he was the son of an all powerful invisible man sneaking around my place eating cookies.

And with comments like this, you're further mocking the guy's beliefs and showing your ignorance, or at least feigned ignorance, of them.

In case you didn't notice, this entire thread is a troll. :rolleyes:

This thread was not made to mock Christianity. If it was, the whole thing should be deleted. Direct insults are not allowed. The thread was made to point out how false a ridiculous bit of "logic" of one of our other members was.

So I guess what I don't understand is why throwaway insults of Christianity or religion are tolerated, when racist and homophobic comments are immediately ridiculed by the whole community. All are prejudiced and ignorant, so all shouldn't be tolerated.

[MovieCutter]

seconded. Some people have so much disdain for Christianity that they will lash out any chance they get and try to be as sacreligious as possible. its really not necessary.

Yes it is...an entire population who believes I'm going to an imaginary place called hell because I don't believe in what they believe is asking to get lashed out at.


Christmas is a celebration of Christs birth. And was Saint Nicholas the "festive gift-giver" born around 300 a.d.


Maybe celebrating the birth, but certainly not commemorating on the day of his birth, but it's simply a transitional holiday, a pre-existing holiday used by the Christians as they use everything else to bring people into their circle and get them to think like they do. It's a simple process of easing the population into a new religion. They just SAY it's celebrating the birth of Christ because there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia, the original week-long Roman holiday celebrated from December 17-25...so they needed an excuse to replace it.

[MacBoobsPro]

There are approximately two billion children (persons under 18) in the world. However, since Santa does not visit children of Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, or Buddhist (except maybe in Japan) religions, this reduces the workload for Christmas night to 15% of the total, or 378 million (according to the population reference bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 108 million homes, presuming there is at least one good child in each. Santa has about 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 967.7 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with a good child, Santa has around 1/1000th of a second to park the sleigh, hop out, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left for him, get back up the chimney, jump into the sleigh and get onto the next house. Assuming that each of these 108 million stops is evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false, but will accept for the purposes of our calculations), we are not talking about 0.78 miles per household; a total trip of 75.5 million miles, not counting bathroom stops or breaks. This means Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second - 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a pokey 27.4 miles per second, and a conventional reindeer can run (at best) 15 miles per hour. The payload of the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium sized LEGO set (two pounds), the sleigh is carrying over 500 thousand tons, not counting Santa himself. On land, a conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that flying reindeer can pull 10 times the normal amount, the job can't be done with eight or even nine of them -Santa would need 360,000 of them. This increases the payload, not counting the weight of the sleigh, another 54,000 tons, or roughly seven times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth (the ship, not the monarch). A mass of nearly 600,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance - this would heat up the reindeer in the same fashion as a spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer would absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy per second each. In short, they would burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team would be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second, or right about the time Santa reaches the fifth house on his trip. Not that it matters, however, since Santa, as a result of accelerating from a dead stop to 650 m.p.s. in .001 seconds, would be subjected to acceleration forces of 17,000 g's. A 250 pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim considering all the high calorie snacks he must have consumed over the years) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force, instantly crushing his bones and organs and reducing him to a quivering blob of pink goo. Therefore, if Santa did exist, he's dead now. MERRY CHISTMAS!!!

[MovieCutter]

looks like you've had a very unhappy childhood. :(

Yeah, right up until I was an Atheist at age 9

And with comments like this, you're further mocking the guy's beliefs and showing your ignorance, or at least feigned ignorance, of them.


This is the equivalent of a political/social/religion battlefield. The gloves come off here, punches will fly, just gotta learn how to roll with them...Besides, I'm not attacking anyone directly. I'm merely attacking an idea and a belief structure...which I believe is "allowed".

[obeygiant]

Yes it is...an entire population who believes I'm going to an imaginary place called hell because I don't believe in what they believe is asking to get lashed out at.


no one here said you were going to hell, so i wouldnt worry about it if i were you.

[MovieCutter]

no one here said you were going to hell, so i wouldnt worry about it if i were you.

Not worried...I've just been reading the God Delusion, so I'm extra fiesty and combative against religion these days...

[Queso]

Not worried...I've just been reading the God Delusion, so I'm extra fiesty and combative against religion these days...
I've just started reading that. Don't tell me how it ends :D

[Macaddicttt]

This is the equivalent of a political/social/religion battlefield. The gloves come off here, punches will fly, just gotta learn how to roll with them...Besides, I'm not attacking anyone directly. I'm merely attacking an idea and a belief structure...which I believe is "allowed".

This is not a battlefield in which you're allowed to hurl insults at anyone or any broad group of people just for the sake of insults. It is for discussion. If you want to debate Christianity, start a thread. Just don't spray anti-Christian posts across the forum when you have to serious aim to intelligently debate them. In the past, all blatantly inflammatory anti-Christian threads with no serious intention of debate were wastelanded, so I'm pretty sure your kind of posts here are not allowed.

[MovieCutter]

This is not a battlefield in which you're allowed to hurl insults at anyone or any broad group of people just for the sake of insults. It is for discussion. If you want to debate Christianity, start a thread. Just don't spray anti-Christian posts across the forum when you have to serious aim to intelligently debate them. In the past, all blatantly inflammatory anti-Christian threads with no serious intention of debate were wastelanded, so I'm pretty sure your kind of posts here are not allowed.

Sorry mom...:(

I'll take my debate to other forums where people can handle it...

[Macaddicttt]

Not worried...I've just been reading the God Delusion, so I'm extra fiesty and combative against religion these days...

Well, I don't go read the Bible and then get all feisty and combative against atheism. So respect Christian beliefs as others respect atheists ones. That's no excuse. I can't come on this board making racist comments and then just say, "Oh, well I was just watching Birth of a Nation and it got me all riled up."

[Don't panic]

And with comments like this, you're further mocking the guy's beliefs and showing your ignorance, or at least feigned ignorance, of them.



This thread was not made to mock Christianity. If it was, the whole thing should be deleted. Direct insults are not allowed. The thread was made to point out how false a ridiculous bit of "logic" of one of our other members was.

So I guess what I don't understand is why throwaway insults of Christianity or religion are tolerated, when racist and homophobic comments are immediately ridiculed by the whole community. All are prejudiced and ignorant, so all shouldn't be tolerated.

thanks, this thread was started, in obvious jest, to highlight how totally meaningless and avoid of logic was the premise of the parallel 'evolution' troll thread.

the evidence to support a creationist/intelligent design is exactly as valid as the one supporting the idea that gifts are brought by 'magical' beings (be them Santa, Baby Jesus, Saint Lucy, Saint Nick, the Wise Men, The Old Witch, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny or whoever): that is, some people believe it.

Blatantly insulting or offensive remarks do not belong to this or any other thread. That said, it is people who cling to an untenable literalist view of the bible that make a mockery of christianity, in my opinion.

[Macaddicttt]

Sorry mom...:(

I'll take my debate to other forums where people can handle it...

I'm sorry, I missed your debate. Could you point it out to me? I must have missed between all the baseless anti-Christian statements.

If you look at my record in this forum, I'm not adverse to taking serious debates. If you want to debate, I'll debate you. What you have done in this forum no way resembles debate.

[princealfie]

A religion are tolerated, when racist and homophobic comments are immediately ridiculed by the whole community. All are prejudiced and ignorant, so all shouldn't be tolerated.

Dude, I so majorly don't believe in any censorship. We should tolerate anything. :p

[Queso]

But....

...I did think MacBoobsPro's post was funny, so the thread wasn't an entire waste of time. :D

[Macaddicttt]

It is people who cling to an untenable literalist view of the bible that make a mockery of christianity.

Exactly. Yet in this thread, you find blanket condemnations of all Christianity. I'm as much against the other thread this one is mocking as anyone else. My point is that this thread cannot devolve into baseless bashing of a whole section of the population based on ignorance of all of their beliefs.

[princealfie]

racist comments and then just say, "Oh, well I was just watching Birth of a Nation and it got me all riled up."

Wow, that movie was so long... took me like 2 tries to watch it all the way through.

Man, interesting period piece but I nearly fell asleep. Try watching "Intolerance"... that one is even longer!

[MovieCutter]

Well, I don't go read the Bible and then get all feisty and combative against atheism. So respect Christian beliefs as others respect atheists ones. That's no excuse. I can't come on this board making racist comments and then just say, "Oh, well I was just watching Birth of a Nation and it got me all riled up."

Yeah, but I DO read God Delusion and get all riled up. Not everybody is just like you...I'm gracefully taking my bow and leaving now because this is getting boring...

[princealfie]

Exactly. Yet in this thread, you find blanket condemnations of all Christianity. I'm as much against the other thread this one is mocking as anyone else. My point is that this thread cannot devolve into baseless bashing of a whole section of the population based on ignorance of all of their beliefs.

But isn't ignorance bliss? Or self-imposed ignorance for that matter? :p

[Don't panic]

Exactly. Yet in this thread, you find blanket condemnations of all Christianity. I'm as much against the other thread this one is mocking as anyone else. My point is that this thread cannot devolve into baseless bashing of a whole section of the population based on ignorance of all of their beliefs.

I agree.

est modus in rebus

[Macaddicttt]

Yeah, but I DO read God Delusion and get all riled up. Not everybody is just like you...I'm gracefully taking my bow and leaving now because this is getting boring...

You missed my point, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

And by the way, you guys all have Santa wrong. As is evidenced by my avatar, Santa is Hellboy.

[princealfie]

And what's wrong with blanket statements? I like those honestly. Sometimes it makes for a better Celine.

[MacBoobsPro]

You missed my point, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

And by the way, you guys all have Santa wrong. As is evidenced by my avatar, Santa is Hellboy.

If you read my post Santa is dead. :rolleyes:

[Macaddicttt]

If you read my post Santa is dead. :rolleyes:

But you can't ignore the pictorial evidence... :p

[princealfie]

If you read my post Santa is dead. :rolleyes:

Yeah for Nietzsche Plus Pro!

[MacBoobsPro]

But you can't ignore the pictorial evidence... :p

But my post contains unequivocal hard facts. :D

[Macaddicttt]

But my post contains unequivocal hard facts. :D

Ah yes, but Truthiness is the word of the year. I believe my pictures have more truthiness. :p :D

[Don't panic]

If you read my post Santa is dead. :rolleyes:

So say you, but others disagree (http://www.ucolick.org/~de/humour/santa.html):

1. As admitted, it is possible that a flying reindeer can be found. I would agree that it would be quite an unusual find, but they might exist.

2. You've relied on cascading assumptions. For example, you have assumed a uniform distribution of children across homes. Toronto/Yorkville, or Toronto/Cabbagetown, or other yuppie neighbourhoods, have probably less than the average (and don't forget the DINK and SINK homes (Double Income No Kids, Single Income No Kids)), while the families with 748 starving children that they keep showing on Vision TV while trying to pick my pocket would skew that 15&#37; of homes down a few percent.

3.You've also assumed that each home that has kids would have at least one good kid. What if anti-selection applies, and homes with good kids tend to have more than their share of good kids, and other homes have nothing except terrorists in diapers? Let's drop that number of homes down a few more percent.

4.Santa would have to Fedex a number of packages ahead of time, since he would not be able to fly into Air Force Bases, or into tower-controlled areas near airports. He's get shot at over certain sections of the Middle East, and the no-fly zones in Iraq, so he'd probably use DHL there. Subtract some more homes.

5.I just barely passed Physics and only read Stephen Hawking's book once, but I recall that there is some Einsteinian Theory that says time does strange things as you move faster. In fact, when you go faster than the speed of light time runs backward, if you do a straight line projection, connect the dots and just ignore any singularity you might find right at the speed of light. And don't say you can't go faster than the speed of light because I've seen it done on TV. Jean-Luc doesn't have reindeer but he does have matter-antimatter warp engines and a holodeck and that's good enough for me.

So Santa could go faster than light, visit all the good children which are not uniformly distributed by either concentration in each home or by number of children per household, and get home before he left so he can digest all those stale cookies and warm milk yech.

6.Aha, you say, Jean-Luc has matter-antimatter warp engines, Santa only has reindeer, where does he get the power to move that fast!
You calculated the answer! The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 quintillion joules of energy. Per second. Each. This is an ample supply of energy for the maneuvering, acceleration, etc, that would be required of the loaded sleigh. The reindeer don't evaporate or incinerate because of this energy, they accelerate. What do you think they have antlers for, fighting over females? Think of antlers as furry solar array panels.

7.If that's not enough, watch the news on the 24th at 11 o'clock. NORAD (which may be one of the few government agencies with more than 3 initials in it's name and therefore it must be more trustworthy than the rest) tracks Santa every year and I've seen the radar shots of him approaching my house from the direction of the North Pole. They haven't bombarded him yet, so they must believe too, right?

and again:

1. Flying reindeer: As is widely known (due to the excellent historical documentary "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," the flying reindeer are not a previously unknown species of reindeer, but were in fact given the power of flight due to eating magic acorns. As is conclusively proven in "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer" (a no punches pulled look at life in Santa's village), this ability has bred true in subsequent generations of reindeer, obviously the magic acorns imprinted their power on a dominant gene sequence within the reindeer DNA strand.

2. Number of households: This figure overlooks two key facts. First of all, the first major schism in the Church split the Eastern Churches, centered in Byzantium, from the Western, which remained centered in Rome. This occurred prior to the Gregorian correction to the Julian calendar. The Eastern churches (currently called Orthodox Churches) do not recognize the Gregorian correction for liturgical events, and their Christmas is as a result several days after the Western Churches'. Santa gets two shots at delivering toys.

Secondly, the figure of 3.5 children per household is based on the gross demographic average, which includes households with no children at all. The number of children per household, when figured as an average for households with children, would therefore have to be adjusted upward. Also, the largest single Christian denomination is Roman Catholic, who, as we all know, breed like rabbits. If you don't believe me, ask my four brothers and two sisters, they'll back me up. Due to the predominance of Catholics within Christian households, the total number of households containing Christian children would have to be adjusted downward to reflect the overloading of Catholics beyond a standard deviation from the median.
Also, the assertion that each home would contain at least one good child would be reasonable enough if there were in fact an even 3.5 children per household. However, since the number of children per household is distributed integrally, there are a significant number (on the order of several million) of one child Christian households. Even though only children are notoriously spoiled and therefore disproportionately inclined towards being naughty, since it's the holidays we'll be generous and give them a fifty-fifty chance of being nice. This removes one half of the single child households from Santa's delivery schedule, which has already been reduced by the removal of the Orthodox households from the first delivery run.

3.Santa's delivery run (speed, payload, etc.): These all suffer from the dubious supposition that there is only one Santa Claus. The name "Santa" is obviously either Spanish or Italian, two ethnic groups which are both overwhelmingly Catholic. The last name Claus suggests a joint German/Italian background. His beginnings, battling the Burgermeister Meisterburger, suggest he grew up in Bavaria (also predominantly Catholic). The Kaiser style helmets of the Burgermeister's guards, coupled with the relative isolation of the village, suggest that his youth was at the very beginning of Prussian influence in Germany. Thus, Santa and Mrs. Claus have been together for well over one hundred years. If you think that after a hundred years of living at the North Pole with nights six months long that they remain childless, you either don't know Catholics or are unaware of the failure rate of the rhythm method. There have therefore been over five generations of Clauses, breeding like Catholics for over one hundred years. Since they are Catholic, their exponential population increase would obviously have a gain higher than the world population as a whole.

There have therefore been more than enough new Santas to overcome the population increase of the world. So in fact, Santa has an easier time of it now than he did when he first started out.

and some more here: http://www.physorg.com/news2487.html
and here: http://skepdic.com/santa.html

[obeygiant]

And what's wrong with blanket statements? I like those honestly.

I'm sure you do. Although if you start making your blanket statements about homosexuals, everyone including leekohler would be in here flying off the handle. but i digress, this is a troll thread about the modern existence of a long dead saint.

[jelloshotsrule]

I'm sure you do. Although if you start making your blanket statements about homosexuals, everyone including leekohler would be in here flying off the handle. but i digress, this is a troll thread about the modern existence of a long dead saint.

first of all, pseudobrit's comment was (to me) a scathing joke about how christ has nothing to do with giving presents. ie, put the christ back in christmas. how this is a trolling comment trashing christianity (especially coming from a christian himself) is beyond me.

second of all, there's a different between insulting a belief system (which i wouldn't do so broadly either) that people have chosen, and a race or sexuality which people do not choose. but i'm 100% sure you've never made blanket statements about islam, right? :rolleyes:

[takao]

I'm sure you do. Although if you start making your blanket statements about homosexuals, everyone including leekohler would be in here flying off the handle. but i digress, this is a troll thread about the modern existence of a long dead saint.

if we were talking about st. nicholas it might be true .. but the american Santa Claus isn't a saint .. it's a conglomerate out of a few different characters

the easter bunny isn't a saint either ;)

[obeygiant]

first of all, pseudobrit's comment was (to me) a scathing joke about how christ has nothing to do with giving presents. ie, put the christ back in christmas. how this is a trolling comment trashing christianity (especially coming from a christian himself) is beyond me.

second of all, there's a different between insulting a belief system (which i wouldn't do so broadly either) that people have chosen, and a race or sexuality which people do not choose. but i'm 100% sure you've never made blanket statements about islam, right? :rolleyes:

I think we're in agreement here, although christians dont usually refer to Jesus as dead.

and i'm not equating belief in Christianty with being gay, I'm mearly stating that bashing of Christians on this board is generally tolerated, while the bashing of homosexuals is normally not tolerated.

[princealfie]

I think we're in agreement here, although christians dont usually refer to Jesus as dead.

and i'm not equating belief in Christianty with being gay, I'm mearly stating that bashing of Christians on this board is generally tolerated, while the bashing of homosexuals is normally not tolerated.

“The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy.”

[obeygiant]

“The only vice that cannot be forgiven is hypocrisy. The repentance of a hypocrite is itself hypocrisy.”

so what your saying is that this forum is full of hypocrites. probably true.

[jelloshotsrule]

so what your saying is that this forum is full of hypocrites. probably true.

everyone is a hypocrite, to one degree or another.

[obeygiant]

everyone is a hypocrite, to one degree or another.

sure but not everyone is big enough to admit it.

[jelloshotsrule]

sure but not everyone is big enough to admit it.

how did you know how "big" i am?!?!?!?!?!?

[vniow]

how did you know how "big" i am?!?!?!?!?!?

*points to avatar*

[jelloshotsrule]

*points to avatar*

and people are always talking about how hot that other person with their own picture in their avatar is....

[hulugu]

so what your saying is that this forum is full of hypocrites. probably true.

Making friends as usual I see.

[zap2]

I'm mearly stating that bashing of Christians on this board is generally tolerated, while the bashing of homosexuals is normally not tolerated.


Assuming that is true(Which I'm not saying it is) Being Christian is a choice, being gay isn't. Mocking people who something they choice to do, is very different then mocking people for being themselves.


Not to mention over all gays aren't know for try to take people's rights away while Christians are(Not to say all Christians try to take people rights away, or no gays to, but on average it seem to be like that_

[twistedlegato]

The cookies regenerate him! DUH!

[yellow]

and i'm not equating belief in Christianty with being gay, I'm mearly stating that bashing of Christians on this board is generally tolerated, while the bashing of homosexuals is normally not tolerated.

Being Christian is a choice.
As is being a Windows user, a PS3 user, a Republican.

Bashing things that are completely out of one's control is a little low.

[skunk]

It still seems utterly unhelpful to tar everyone in each group with the same brush. There is no more a "Christian Agenda" than there is a "Gay Agenda", "Muslim Agenda" or "Republican Agenda", for that matter. Every group has its extremists.

[zimv20]

Being Christian is a choice, being gay isn't. Mocking people who something they choice to do, is very different then mocking people for being themselves.
still, i don't think that's a very good rationalization for mocking someone's faith.

we've got several issues wrapped together here, and i don't think the comparison to gay issues is a valid one. wrapped up in the (allegedly anti-) christian views expressed on this forum are:
1. biases against the actions of religious leaders
2. biases against the actions of organized religion
3. biases against the views of politicians espousing christian dogma
4. lashing out against individuals on this forum espousing christian dogma, such as in discussions of gay issues, abortion, even global warming when it becomes dogma vs. evidence
5. observations of the hypocrisy of thoughts/views/actions of christians

any others? putting each occurrence in context reveals far more about what's going on than to simply say, "this is an anti-christian forum", or to cite forum intolerance of racist and bigoted remarks as a double standard.

[obeygiant]

still, i don't think that's a very good rationalization for mocking someone's faith.

we've got several issues wrapped together here, and i don't think the comparison to gay issues is a valid one. wrapped up in the (allegedly anti-) christian views expressed on this forum are:
1. biases against the actions of religious leaders
2. biases against the actions of organized religion
3. biases against the views of politicians espousing christian dogma
4. lashing out against individuals on this forum espousing christian dogma, such as in discussions of gay issues, abortion, even global warming when it becomes dogma vs. evidence
5. observations of the hypocrisy of thoughts/views/actions of christians

any others? putting each occurrence in context reveals far more about what's going on than to simply say, "this is an anti-christian forum", or to cite forum intolerance of racist and bigoted remarks as a double standard.

thats all fine, i just wish that "Christian" was replaced with "religious"
especially in #5.

[pseudobrit]

seconded. Some people have so much disdain for Christianity that they will lash out any chance they get and try to be as sacreligious as possible. its really not necessary.

I'm Roman Catholic.

[solvs]

be very careful Solvs, you're threading on thin ice...
But it's true. Go look it up on Wiki. If it's there, it must be true.

I do believe in Bad Santa.
I saw that movie too. Unless you meant that guy who dressed up as Santa and killed all those people. But I don't want to bring him up.

Dude, I so majorly don't believe in any censorship. We should tolerate anything. :p
It's not censorship. It's a private forum. There are rules you have to follow when you sign up, and they can do what they want with your posts. You are free to abide by their moderation or not. As a moderate, I like moderation. But only in moderation.

Ok, that was lame and I apologize. :o

If you read my post Santa is dead. :rolleyes:
I said that too, but no body believed me.

I'm not sure I agree with MovieCutter (actually I completely don't), but he certainly has the right to say what he wants here, as it wasn't a personal attack (though it was a blanket statement, naughty list you). I'm guessing he had a similar upbringing to mine, so I'm guessing I can't blame him. You have the right to your opinions as well. I would have worded things a little differently as a response, as I have when I point out hating Christianity because of the fundies is just as bad as those who hate Muslims because of the terrorists, but he's gone now, so let it go. I'd like to remind everyone that someone actually was banned recently for bagging on religion in the naughty way, after being disputed by some here you are now calling hypocrites. Hypocrite. :p Don't feel bad though, I'm a hypocrite too. Human nature I guess.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure pb is actually religious.

I'm Roman Catholic.
See.

Maybe you're one of those self hating Catholics, like I'm apparently a self hating Jew. Of course, is there any other kind? ;) I do have some German Protestant blood in me though, so that's my excuse.

[pseudobrit]

Maybe you're one of those self hating Catholics, like I'm apparently a self hating Jew. Of course, is there any other kind? ;) I do have some German Protestant blood in me though, so that's my excuse.

I do have some English breeding.

[solvs]

I do have some English breeding.
I was trying to come up with a good pun in response, but nothing's coming. I guess England just isn't funny. Sorry British people.

[BoyBach]

Will people please stop with the 'blanket-bashing.'

If you prick a blanket, does it not bleed?

[solvs]

Will people please stop with the 'blanket-bashing.'

Blanket bashing. That sounds dirty. I like it.

[BoyBach]

Blanket bashing. That sounds dirty. I like it.


Only if you don't clean it after! ;)

[clayj]

Santa is able to personally deliver presents to all of those houses in a single night because he has a super-powerful version of the Comb from The Lost Room. One comb of his beard and he can stop time for himself, thereby enabling him to go to every house. He has to go down the chimney (and back up it) because when time is stopped, he can't open doors (they're all frozen) or move anything not contained in his bag of presents.

Obviously, that one "night" (24 hours as the world rotates) for us turns out to be quite a long experience for Santa.