Xbox 360 v2 : HDMI, 65nm chips & 120GB HDD

[Piarco]

Just read this over at Engadget: xbox360 v2 - Codename Zephyr (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/the-second-xbox-360-revealed-codename-zephyr/)

The 120GB HDD has to be an optional extra surely... but an HDMI port as standard is nice. The 65nm chips should make it cooler, so less fans noise... but we all know the main culprit is the optical drive. If I heard a new quiet drive was going in I'd definitely sell on my current 360!

[MacRumorUser]

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/01/xbox_zephyr.jpg

:( nice but doesnt let us know if the current model can support a HDMI cable adapter. Maybe just adding a HDMI port as standard on the newer rev doesnt rule it out for existing users (i hope), not that it matters as I ues component anyway.

They have said on record the current model could, but who knows.
They will have a lot of pissed off users if they dont comeout with a cable.


120gb HDD, seems like overkill really - unless your downloading a ton of HiDef movies (that 'arent available in Europe anyway) but still seems too big.

Quieter is good, Cooler is very good. So I may be tempted to trade in my old machine for a newer one anyway. (much like I did when nintendo updated its handhelds, and will do when they release a dvd capable Wii later in the year). Plus I have to get a PS3 yet. Just when I thought only a few pieces of hardware to buy in 2007 ;)

[darkwing]

Is this further evidence to back me up that they can't put a HDMI out for the current model? If they were smart, they'd offer this new improved model with a trade in on the old one.

I'll probably wind up buying a ps3 "v2" if they ever make the 65 nm SOI chips just because I'd like less power consumption. Before the ps3 I used 5 kW per month and now I'm afraid to see that increase noticeably.

[MacRumorUser]

Is this further evidence to back me up that they can't put a HDMI out for the current model? If they were smart, they'd offer this new improved model with a trade in on the old one.


Would be nice if they did offer a reasonalbe trade up facility for those wishing to get HDMI, but was wondering.

Doesnt it just prove that the AV port is digital if they can just graft HDMI to it, so maybe a convertor cable is still possible for existing users?

who knows. :confused:

DarkWing you think there's going to be a Rev2 PS3 for 2007 as well ? Should I hold off from getting one at euro launch then I wonder.

[greatdevourer]

Get this, mod the old one, methinks... :D

[MacRumorUser]

Get this, mod the old one, methinks... :D

Yep could indeed be a mod

[mkubal]

Would be nice if they did offer a reasonalbe trade up facility for those wishing to get HDMI, but was wondering.

Doesnt it just prove that the AV port is digital if they can just graft HDMI to it, so maybe a convertor cable is still possible for existing users?

who knows. :confused:

It seems that if they could simply make a new cable they would do that instead. I'd bet that their profit margins would be higher on a $50 (at least) adapter/cable for HDMI than it would be on an entirely new machine. Although making a new version of the console would probably result in an increased number of people owning a 360. As in, an early adopter sells his 360 to a buddy who would never have purchased one anyway, so that he can buy the new version.

Also, I think I remember a guy on one of the Major Nelson podcasts saying that the output was analog, thus no HDMI. Don't quote me on that. I stopped listening to his podcast when he acted like EA was doing everyone a favor by giving them the "choice" to buy new jerseys.

[greatdevourer]

Yep could indeed be a mod No, I meant for me to mod my old one, although the fact that this is a fake is just as possible

[MacRumorUser]

No, I meant for me to mod the old one, although the fact that this is a fake is just as possible

Oh ok. I guess both are feasible.

Well as long they only release a core with these updates, I can save a bit of money that way and sell my existing 360 (or use it in a different room connected to seperate display).

[darkwing]

Would be nice if they did offer a reasonalbe trade up facility for those wishing to get HDMI, but was wondering.

Doesnt it just prove that the AV port is digital if they can just graft HDMI to it, so maybe a convertor cable is still possible for existing users?

who knows. :confused:

DarkWing you think there's going to be a Rev2 PS3 for 2007 as well ? Should I hold off from getting one at euro launch then I wonder.

I have said all along and I'll say it again that they're going to come out and say they were not able to make an HDMI cable for the 360. When this happens I will gloat. When it doesn't happen, someone will create a "Darkwing eat your words" thread or something.

I am not sure if there will be a rev 2 ps3 or not. They are supposedly going to start making a 65 nm cell processor this year, but who knows if that will go in the ps3. It's all speculation. The cells are used in other applications.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

Oh ok. I guess both are feasible.

Well as long they only release a core with these updates, I can save a bit of money that way and sell my existing 360 (or use it in a different room connected to seperate display).

You could use it as a dedicated live server

[Chone]

Wouldn't it be cool if this was an additional SKU all of its own?

Something like a Premium HD 360 or something like that and sells for 500$ (and includes the 120GB drive, maybe make it replaceable like the PS3's) and includes the HDMI cable.

That would be nice and would be a big blow to Sony, the 360 would not have any disadvantages to the PS3... except Blu-Ray games but I don't think BR will give developers a huge advantage, remember on the CD days were we were having a lot of multi cd games even before the DVD came out... I have yet to see a multi-dvd game...

I think thats rather important to consider.

[MacRumorUser]

You could use it as a dedicated live server

I'll probably end up giving it away as a birthday present or some such, make it look like I'm very generous when really i'm just justfying blowing more money :D :D :D

[SpankyPenzaanz]

I'll probably end up giving it away as a birthday present or some such, make it look like I'm very generous when really i'm just justfying blowing more money :D :D :D

I always did prefer seeming more humane than not and where's the optical audio on it? I know hdmi can carry audio but what if you want hdmi to display and audio to receiver where said reciever is not hdmi but has optical?

[Haoshiro]

If they can reduce productions costs of the hardware as well as lower the defect rate, this could be really good.

I'm sure if they do HDMI and include 120GB it's there for those people who are going to compare specs and pit it against PS3. Having a larger standard harddrive would stand out on a box for these people (although 80GB would work just as well I'd think).

Now lets see them integrate a WiFi chip and we'd have a winner... something I'd definitely be willing to trade in for.

[MacRumorUser]

I know hdmi can carry audio but what if you want hdmi to display and audio to receiver where said reciever is not hdmi but has optical?

Yeah that's true. That is very strange indeed. Now I'm not so sure if its genuine or not, seems like that's a hefty omission.

Now lets see them integrate a WiFi chip and we'd have a winner... something I'd definitely be willing to trade in for.

Yep that would certainly be beneficial.

[Markleshark]

I'd be gutted if they brought this out. Although I have no reason to be.

HDMI? Don't care. Only use the HDTV now and again and I have component cables, TBPH I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I don't think.

120Gig HDD? Yup, over kill I'd agree with whoever said that. I have 2 albums on my HDD, all my music, streaming videos, etc, etc are on the Mac and streamed to the 360. Something like 11.9 Gig free, I wouldn't use it.

I just have to have the latest and greatest. Although I think this is something I can do without... Only thing I want is quieter and cooler... :(

[SpankyPenzaanz]

If they can reduce productions costs of the hardware as well as lower the defect rate, this could be really good.

I'm sure if they do HDMI and include 120GB it's there for those people who are going to compare specs and pit it against PS3. Having a larger standard harddrive would stand out on a box for these people (although 80GB would work just as well I'd think).

Now lets see them integrate a WiFi chip and we'd have a winner... something I'd definitely be willing to trade in for.

I know its early but there is no mention of adding wifi in the article as well. at this point this would have to be a big bullet point probably after hdmi and 120GB hard drive.

[Motley]

Wouldn't it be cool if this was an additional SKU all of its own?

Something like a Premium HD 360 or something like that and sells for 500$ (and includes the 120GB drive, maybe make it replaceable like the PS3's) and includes the HDMI cable.


I was thinking more like:
New XBox with larger HD and HDMI becomes the new Premium
Old Premium (with the cooler chip and quiet drive but lacking larger HD and HDMI) becomes the new core.

Prices stay the same.

[greatdevourer]

Yeah that's true. That is very strange indeed. Now I'm not so sure if its genuine or not, seems like that's a hefty omission.



Yep that would certainly be beneficial. Little micro-adapter for the AV port?

[SpankyPenzaanz]

I'd be gutted if they brought this out. Although I have no reason to be.

HDMI? Don't care. Only use the HDTV now and again and I have component cables, TBPH I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, I don't think.

120Gig HDD? Yup, over kill I'd agree with whoever said that. I have 2 albums on my HDD, all my music, streaming videos, etc, etc are on the Mac and streamed to the 360. Something like 11.9 Gig free, I wouldn't use it.

I just have to have the latest and greatest. Although I think this is something I can do without...

I am in almost the same boat except i am using composite

[Haoshiro]

I always did prefer seeming more humane than not and where's the optical audio on it? I know hdmi can carry audio but what if you want hdmi to display and audio to receiver where said reciever is not hdmi but has optical?

Well, the Component cable has an Optical audio jack on the back of the connector, perhaps the solution in this case will be similar.

On a side note, isn't Optical a digital audio connection? Because it's going through the component cable of current 360s. Doesn't mean it does digital video, but it's carrying a digital signal of some kind if it does Optical Audio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_audio).

[MacRumorUser]

I just have to have the latest and greatest. Although I think this is something I can do without... Only thing I want is quieter and cooler... :(

wants and needs are always two seperate things. Like myself I'm sure we'll find a way of justifying a needless upgrade :D

I was thinking more like:
New XBox with larger HD and HDMI becomes the new Premium
Old Premium (with the cooler chip and quiet drive but lacking larger HD and HDMI) becomes the new core.

Prices stay the same.

Quite probable, and probably not till late summer or xmas.

I am in almost the same boat except i am using composite

Simply shocking spanky ;)

Well, the Component cable has an Optical audio jack on the back of the connector, perhaps the solution in this case will be similar.

On a side note, isn't Optical a digital audio connection? Because it's going through the component cable of current 360s. Doesn't mean it does digital video, but it's carrying a digital signal of some kind if it does Optical Audio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_audio).

mmm could be.

[Markleshark]

wants and needs are always two seperate things. Like myself I'm sure we'll find a way of justifying a needless upgrade :D

Your right. Which is really sad. :(

I can't afford it though. Hehe.

*Pleaseeeeee be fake*

[SpankyPenzaanz]

Your right. Which is really sad. :(

I can't afford it though. Hehe.

*Pleaseeeeee be fake*

if you look closely the outline around the video ports looks suspect and look like a slight recess of where only existing avport is and not taking into consideration of newports

[Chone]

I was thinking more like:
New XBox with larger HD and HDMI becomes the new Premium
Old Premium (with the cooler chip and quiet drive but lacking larger HD and HDMI) becomes the new core.

Prices stay the same.

That would be really nice and would definitely make the Wii feel overpriced (I personally feel its a tad overpriced right now) but I think thats a tad optimistic.

[MacRumorUser]

if you look closely the outline around the video ports looks suspect and look like a slight recess of where only existing avport is and not taking into consideration of newports

Yeah your right. The bottom bevel is much shorter. Very suspicious.

[mkubal]

I always did prefer seeming more humane than not and where's the optical audio on it? I know hdmi can carry audio but what if you want hdmi to display and audio to receiver where said reciever is not hdmi but has optical?

I'm not sure that this is the case for all HDMI TVs, but mine has an optical out. I would expect this to be fairly common. My TV was relatively inexpensive.

I could be wrong though, and this could cause problems for a number of people.

[MacRumorUser]

I'm not sure that this is the case for all HDMI TVs, but mine has an optical out. I would expect this to be fairly common. My TV was relatively inexpensive.

I could be wrong though, and this could cause problems for a number of people.

No my few months old 42" Philips Amblite TV has 2 HDMI inputs, but no optical output.

[mkubal]

No my few months old 42" Philips Amblite TV has 2 HDMI inputs, but no optical output.

That sucks. So in your case an HDMI capable receiver would be necessary. Unless there was a separate attachment for the standard (top) connector to just output the toslink. Or maybe you could plug in your old component cables and use that toslink out. Either way, leaving out the optical would still be a bad idea, which makes me think this is probably fake. That and it just looks strange.

[Coded-Dude]

How many 1080p games are developers REALLY going to make on DVD.......?
I can see this as a good thing for the HD-DVD drive, but thats about it.


also, I would just like to quote Andre Vrignaud:

"I think 1080p, just to address that directly, will be basically impossible. I think if you talk to any developer they will tell you that they will not have a performing game at 1080p."

"In fact, I'll stick my neck out and predict that that you won't see any 1080"x" games for the PS3 this year."

"99% of PS3 titles will natively render at 720p; the few that come out with 1080"x" support are either going to be simple classic arcade ports that don't need to render complex scenes... Or will give up a lot of in-game visual effects and simply won't look very good (hence the poor showing of Gran Turismo "HD" at this past E3)," he continued.

"Don't get sucked into all the 1080p hype. Just make sure you have a recent HDTV that de-interlaces 1080i signals correctly and you'll be just fine."

Well, if thats not an Flip_Flop.....I don't know what is. :rolleyes:

[greatdevourer]

How many 1080p games are developers REALLY going to make on DVD.......?
I can see this as a good thing for the HD-DVD drive, but thats about it. Disk space and resolution when rendering have very little to do with each other - I can play UT04 in 640x480, 1024x768, 1440x900 and 1920x1440, and the game files are exactly the same size

[Coded-Dude]

what about draw distance?
There will be some limitations, due to the DVD solution....

[Haoshiro]

There were 1080i games even on Xbox1, so that is a bit presumptuous.

Not sure I see the flip flop, unless you mean him suggesting you have a tv that properly deinterlaces 1080i. I think that came after comments of it being hard to see a difference between 1080p and a properly deinterlaced 1080i. Realistically, 1080i is closer to 720p.

Disk space and resolution when rendering have very little to do with each other - I can play UT04 in 640x480, 1024x768, 1440x900 and 1920x1440, and the game files are exactly the same size

Well, that's not because it isn't necessary. UT04 textures were likely optimized for a specific resolution, and you are just viewing those at a higher screen resolution.

If you are going to target a higher resolution from the start (be that 720p or 1080p, etc), you will likely use larger textures that are a better fit for the target resolution.

Having 4K x 4K textures will take up a lot more space then 1K x 1K textures... Doesn't UT04 use 256x256 or 512x512 textures?

what about draw distance?
There will be some limitations, due to the DVD solution....

While I do agree a game optimized for a higher resolution can definitely take more space if larger textures are used (and more of them) I still don't see 9GB being much of a limiting factor for several years. When it is, will publisher be able to justify the extra development time for the art assests? Or will we be using procedural textures and other time and space saving methods?

I've brought this example up so many times, but Crysis has incredible texture quality and effects, I don't think I've seen a single other game that matched it... and it requires just 6GB (installed) of space. That's only using 66% of a DVD9.

[Coded-Dude]

There were 1080i games even on Xbox1, so that is a bit presumptuous.

Not sure I see the flip flop...

I think 1080p will be basically impossible.

1080p impossible, but hey......buy our NEW xbox 360 with HDMI - it will do 1080p.

[Haoshiro]

1080p impossible, but hey......buy our NEW xbox 360 with HDMI - it will do 1080p.

You might be a bit misinformed, Xbox 360 does 1080p now but only in HD-DVD over VGA, iirc. Even after the update enabling that resolution, MS did not change their tone regarding games. They still only intend to pursue 720p as a primary resolution target.

[Coded-Dude]

I'm talking about 1080p games........for which MS said was impossible.

Also here is Hideo Kojima discussing disk space, etc.:

Blu-Ray
"You may hear Blu-Ray is huge, gigantic, 20GB or so, but that's not really that big to us.
One basic [gaemplay] frame with HD visuals and 5.1 sounds takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."

1080p and HD in MGS:
"We're not the ones who are saying we want HD. I'm not interested, myself, about HD at all.
MGS games tend not to care about how clean the screen looks...we deliberately make the graphics look dirtier to give the atmosphere more life."

[Dagless]

Bigger HD, built in Wifi, better DVD-Rom (maybe just stick in the HD-DVD drive?), cooler running. That's the 360 I'd buy.

[Haoshiro]

I'm talking about 1080p games........for which MS said was impossible.

Also here is Hideo Kojima discussing disk space, etc.:

Blu-Ray
"You may hear Blu-Ray is huge, gigantic, 20GB or so, but that's not really that big to us.
One basic [gaemplay] frame with HD visuals and 5.1 sounds takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."

1080p and HD in MGS:
"We're not the ones who are saying we want HD. I'm not interested, myself, about HD at all.
MGS games tend not to care about how clean the screen looks...we deliberately make the graphics look dirtier to give the atmosphere more life."

Yeah, same guy who said MGS4 on 360 could easily be done. Maybe he likes to flip-flop as well?

Anyone saying any game in any resolution is impossible is being silly in my book. PCs have been able to it for quite some time, from benchmarks I've seen of upcoming GPUs they don't even start to get taxed in current games until they get into resolutions like that.

So far we have RFoM at 720p, and some games like NBA 2K7 that originated on PS2/Xbox. Running a PS2 game at 1080p with a few extra effects is hardly impressive, kind of what Andre was saying.

GT:HD throws a wrench in that though, as it's beautiful (and runs in 1080p, right?)

[Markleshark]

So do you think they'll lash in the HD-DVD Drive?

Honestly, I can't see them releasing a new console only a year after releasing the first go, especially with it doing so damn well as it is, as they saying goes 'Don't fix it if its not broken' and really, apart from cooler and quieter, its not broken. A new (Or revised) console seems over kill when they can release a cable to do much the same job. Hell, if they wanted a bigger hard drive, release one as an accessory...

[Coded-Dude]

Yeah, same guy who said MGS4 on 360 could easily be done. Maybe he likes to flip-flop as well?

erm.....?

"Kojima said with the exception of nuances or small details, the power of next generation hardware (and the PC) no longer provides the technical restrictions they did before."

MGS4 is technically feasible on the 360.

But, If you think that means that disk space is NOT one of those nuances or small details, then I would say your being a little silly.
Blue-Dragon already takes up 3 DVD's right, and thats only a second-gen 360 game(per se).
How will it be in 2-3 years?

I'm not arguing which one is more powerful. Merely pointing out the capacity differences.

[darkwing]

erm.....?

"Kojima said with the exception of nuances or small details, the power of next generation hardware (and the PC) no longer provides the technical restrictions they did before."

MGS4 is technically feasible on the 360.

But, If you think that means that disk space is NOT one of those nuances or small details, then I would say your being a little silly.
Blue-Dragon already takes up 3 DVD's right, and thats only a second-gen 360 game(per se).
How will it be in 2-3 years?

I'm not arguing which one is more powerful. Merely pointing out the capacity differences.

He's right I didn't know it ships on 3 dvds. So much for dvd9 being sufficient for today's games. :rolleyes:

[ChrisBrightwell]

I have 2 albums on my HDD, all my music, streaming videos, etc, etc are on the Mac and streamed to the 360.Are you using software to do this or is it an in-built feature that I've managed to overlook?

I've had my 360 for a couple of weeks, but never managed to get the link to my PowerBook working. :(

[Markleshark]

Are you using software to do this or is it an in-built feature that I've managed to overlook?

I've had my 360 for a couple of weeks, but never managed to get the link to my PowerBook working. :(

Software. Connect360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360) :)

Best tenner ive ever spent.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

Are you using software to do this or is it an in-built feature that I've managed to overlook?

I've had my 360 for a couple of weeks, but never managed to get the link to my PowerBook working. :(

connect360 is the software I beleive

[Krevnik]

Not sure I see the flip flop, unless you mean him suggesting you have a tv that properly deinterlaces 1080i. I think that came after comments of it being hard to see a difference between 1080p and a properly deinterlaced 1080i. Realistically, 1080i is closer to 720p.

I don't see 1080i as 'closer to 720p'... but really, the contrast between 1080i and 1080p is like the contrast between 480i and 480p. One is interlaced, displaying 30 full frames per second, the other is progressive, displaying 60 full frames per second.

This doesn't matter until you get content that is fast-motion enough to introduce "combing" artifacts when displayed.

I can see the difference between 1080i and 720p on my 40" display from cable broadcasts and movies. Not so much when it comes to games. The difference between 1080i and 1080p though? If the content is under 30fps, I can't see any difference.

I got a 1080p set not because of 1080p (although I will use the content if it is available), but because I have the HD-DVD add-on for the 360, a PS3, and I wanted a 1080-line display. My options were getting an older 1080i RP, or CRT set, which would be huge, and not be able to display 720p 60 fps content very well (twitch games)... or get a 1080p LCD set which at 40", weighed less than my old 26" CRT.

As for the topic, I hope this is both fake and real at the same time. Fake, because I have a pre-launch 360 sitting at home that I paid a pretty penny for (part of a charity auction). Real, because HDMI is amazingly easier to setup and use than VGA on my 1080p panel... my display was one that was plagued by incompatibility issues with the 1080p update, driving me nuts when I got the HD-DVD drive.

[ChrisBrightwell]

Software. Connect360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360) :) Oh ... That looks to be *exactly* what I've been looking for.

I was considering upgrading my PC to Vista just to use the Media Center functionality. Now it looks like I won't have to. :)

Best tenner ive ever spent.Now they want $20 USD. :(

[Dagless]

Now they want $20 USD. :(

That is a tenner :D

[Josias]

This is what I would like to see, though I doubt it will happen:
Core system:
Simply the current pro system.

Pro system:
60 GB HDD (option of 120 GB)
HDMI out (1080p support)
HD-DVD drive
65 nm chip (quiet'n cool)
Built-in wireless

This line-up would in all aspects kick the PS3's butt!:D

[darkwing]

Oh ... That looks to be *exactly* what I've been looking for.

I was considering upgrading my PC to Vista just to use the Media Center functionality. Now it looks like I won't have to. :)

Now they want $20 USD. :(

I think "tenner" is a UK term meaning he spent £10 on it. That's worth what... like $16 USD or something like that?

[greatdevourer]

I think "tenner" is a UK term meaning he spent £10 on it. That's worth what... like $16 USD or something like that? About $20 now

[ChrisBrightwell]

That is a tenner :DD'oh! Damn currency conversion. :cool:

[MacRumorUser]

I've been looking through IGN and suspect that the photo on engadget and this article on IGN are one and the same, and is ineed a prototype dating from July 2006

This was BEFORE HD-DVD was released this holiday season.

http://uk.gear.ign.com/articles/717/717772p1.html JULY 2006


It's obvious that those are the innards and the post on engadget the outside, but the fact that the IGN article dates back 7 months speaks volumes.


If were going to find out if there's any truth it will be shortly, but I expect an official protracted denial statement to be posted on the internet shortly.

[gkarris]

Sort of a suprise - but it does keep them competitive in such a changing environment.

New "Pro HD" System, $499

XBox 360 w/HDMI 1.3 and HD-DVD Drive built in (for movies only)
120 Gig HD
Wireless Controller

This will be on-par with Sony's $499 sytem, but with a larger hard drive.

Core and Premium Systems will stay the same...

As time goes on, instead of dropping prices for now, MS can substitute the newer XBOX in the Core and Premium Systems.... (like when the PS3 actually becomes available at the end of 2007 in quantity).

External HD-DVD drive will still be available. The movie packed in will be an added value. If they leave out the movie, then they'll drop the price to $149..

All my opinion...

[ChrisBrightwell]

XBox 360 w/HDMI 1.3 and HD-DVD Drive built in (for movies only)What good is an Xbox if all it can do is play movies?

[gloss]

What good is an Xbox if all it can do is play movies?

I think he meant that the HD-DVD drive was for movies only. Games would continue to ship on standard DVD.

[Haoshiro]

To the posters/readers who are thinking this is a "new console"...

This would simply be a revision, both PS1 and PS2 had several revisions during their lifespan to improve the hardware stability and manufacturing costs, even GameCube had a revision or two.

That is what this would be, not an Xbox 360 v1.5 with increased power and hardware (like built-in HD-DVD).

Still including an additional connector for HDMI and increasing the HDD size on the Premium model would be a nice easy move for them.

He's right I didn't know it ships on 3 dvds. So much for dvd9 being sufficient for today's games. :rolleyes:

It is sufficient for todays games, look at them... Resistance, RSV, Crysis.

Blue Dragon is a token JRPG, utilizing more FMV then is healthy in any game since the advent of the PS2. FMV is pretty, no denying that, but a waste of space that could be put to better use elsewhere.

[darkwing]

It is sufficient for todays games, look at them... Resistance, RSV, Crysis.

Blue Dragon is a token JRPG, utilizing more FMV then is healthy in any game since the advent of the PS2. FMV is pretty, no denying that, but a waste of space that could be put to better use elsewhere.

There you go again. DVD9's small capacity caused them to need 3 dvds, and in your mind that was just a waste of space. They don't need higher capacity because they're wasting space.

It's all about developer flexibility, and the PS3 has more of it.

[greatdevourer]

There you go again. DVD9's small capacity caused them to need 3 dvds, and in your mind that was just a waste of space. They don't need higher capacity because they're wasting space.

It's all about developer flexibility, and the PS3 has more of it. Sorry, but FMV is a waste of space, especially as the quality of most FMVs isn't that far above what's being done in game. Rendering a scripted event shouldn't be too taxing, and would save a lot of space. Also, a sizeable amount of each disk is probably exactly the same content

[SpankyPenzaanz]

There you go again. DVD9's small capacity caused them to need 3 dvds, and in your mind that was just a waste of space. They don't need higher capacity because they're wasting space.

It's all about developer flexibility, and the PS3 has more of it.

3dvds for fmv as Haoshiro stated earlier not actual gameplay. If JRPG would actually learn to utilize in game engine for rendering I bet that game could be condensed to 1 dvd or even ff7 from back in the day to one cd

[combatcolin]

With this and Halo 3 there's never been a better time to wait.

;)

[ChrisBrightwell]

I think he meant that the HD-DVD drive was for movies only. Games would continue to ship on standard DVD.I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere this morning that HD-DVD drives lack the throughput to handle games at this point.

I also read that the PS3 as suffering gross loadtimes for the same reason.

Sorry, but FMV is a waste of space, especially as the quality of most FMVs isn't that far above what's being done in game. The cutscenes in Gears of War are all rendered in-game.

[Haoshiro]

3dvds for fmv as Haoshiro stated earlier not actual gameplay. If JRPG would actually learn to utilize in game engine for rendering I bet that game could be condensed to 1 dvd or even ff7 from back in the day to one cd

I actually once had a copy of FF7 (for PC) that had the FMV stripped... I believe it was around 70MB in size.

And greatdevourer is absolutely correct, very large amounts of the data on each disc would indeed be the same.

In fact, it is not entirely unlikely the the entire game is housed on each disc, with the differences in content actually being FMV and possibly audio (the FMVs could force audio that would have otherwise fit on a single disc onto other discs).

AI, Gameplay, etc.... everything that makes the game what it is would need to be present on every disc in most situations.

I'll definitely be interested to see how man GB of data is being taken up by FMVs when someone takes the time to figure that out. :)

[Mac'Mo]

zephyr, i like evenn moree =D

[combatcolin]

Game companies don't have to worry about video standards much (e.g. QT, WMP) so they can safely use the newest and most efficient video codec to make there FMV as small and as good as possible.

[Haoshiro]

Game companies don't have to worry about video standards much (e.g. QT, WMP) so they can safely use the newest and most efficient video codec to make there FMV as small and as good as possible.

Sounds nice, but realistically they get to use whatever the SDKs allow or they are willing to code themselves.

A lot of codecs are not free, so they will have to license them or port one that is GPL... or make up their own.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

Sounds nice, but realistically they get to use whatever the SDKs allow or they are willing to code themselves.

A lot of codecs are not free, so they will have to license them or port one that is GPL... or make up their own.

don't forget some game devs will now liscence a game engine and those games engines use only certain codecs

[combatcolin]

Sounds nice, but realistically they get to use whatever the SDKs allow or they are willing to code themselves.

A lot of codecs are not free, so they will have to license them or port one that is GPL... or make up their own.

True, but the point im making is that a game company dosn't have to worry about adhering to a certain standard, they can use whatever hey think is best or what there contracted into.

So DVD quality FMV can be squeezed down a hell of a lot and still have loads of room left.

[Markleshark]

D'oh! Damn currency conversion. :cool:

Yah, my bad. Sorry. :)

[applekid]

An X-Box 360 is on my to do list for my next console. I'm hoping there's a price drop and possibly a re-design soon. I'd like a nice black X-Box 360 that was much smaller and possibly a less intrusive power brick. When that 65 nm chip is ready, I want to see a redesign that's cheaper, cooler, and better looking.

But, Zephyr does not appear to be what I hoped for. Looks like just a HDMI X-Box 360 with maybe HD-DVD built-in, but that Ars Technica interview (http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars) suggest that HD-DVD will never be built-in.

[Afro1989]

Here's an update.


"Here are 100% exclusive for x-scene, the High-Resolution pictures of a 'Zephyr' prototype with the HDMI port. No, it's no retail Xbox360, it's a prototype board ... but Microsoft had to design a new scaler chip named 'HANA' (replacing the (analog-only?) 'ANA' chip found in current retail and dev Xboxes), I doubt they'll do that effort for nothing. You will also notice several other changes to the motherboard.
Microsoft always refused to answer any question about a possible HDMI-cable for the Xbox360 (even when asked for explicitly), but this HANA chip probably confirms the current 360 can only output an analog signal, so an HDMI-cable for the current 360 probably won't be possible (sure they could design a cable/box that reconverts the analog output to digital, but that makes no sense and is not the point).

Note: we can't tell/confirm you if the HDMI port, 65nm CPU and larger (120gb) HD are linked to each other. They might or might not be released together. The 65nm CPU is coming anyway for all Xbox models (confirmed by MS and Chartered long time ago + delay news). And it's also pretty obvious (with current demand and video marketplace) that MS will release a larger HD sooner or later, this requires no change to the motherboard."

Shot of the connectors: the classic output and the new HDMI output:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/xbox360-set2-hdmi-01.jpg

View of the inside, on the right you'll notice the new HANA scaler chip:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/xbox360-set2-hdmi-02.jpg

On the left the 'old' ANA scaler, on the right the new HANA scaler ('H' for HDMI?)
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/ananchip.jpg
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/xbox360-set2-hdmi-03.jpg

Close-up output without case:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/xbox360-set2-hdmi-04.jpg

HANA/Output Motherboard-region:
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/hdmi-360/xbox360-set2-hdmi-05.jpg

"Still not enough for you? How about a video?
A HDMI->DVI converter was used to show you the port in action using a small PC LCD screen.
And before you ask ... a dev kit always takes a while to boot, that's why it takes longer than with a retail 360."

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcACuy4x8nA&eurl=

From Xbox-Scene

[MacRumorUser]

"Still not enough for you? How about a video?
A HDMI->DVI converter was used to show you the port in action using a small PC LCD screen.
And before you ask ... a dev kit always takes a while to boot, that's why it takes longer than with a retail 360."

VIDEO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcACuy4x8nA&eurl=

From Xbox-Scene

Thanks for the links but I have one question and it's mentioned on the you tube page.

There arent any 65nm 360's at the mo (they werent meant to go into production until at least Q2 07, maybe later) so is this really safe to assume that the 65nm machine and HDMI machine are not exclusive.

Until an official response I'll wait with bated breath, but remain a touch skeptical.

[Dagless]

Here's an update. ...

This is so excellent. If they don't charge a penny more than what a premium 360 costs now then lordy. They have a convert on their hands. Especially with the promise (rumour?) of Tekken 6 and some other PS exclusives I've missed out on since my departure from Sony after the PS1.

Really interested to see how all this turns out.


Yea... I've sorta realised how crap the Wii looks on my 2007WFP. It looks worse than my Gamecube. Which is funny... Gamecube on the Wii looks better. I've also realised how you cannot play Wii sports on your own no matter what. The single most important game ever IMO but it's multiplayer only. Oh and it's rumoured S-Video doesn't work on PAL Wii's. No VGA makes me extremely annoyed.
I need a console that can use VGA, or even DVI. And with more single player and online games.

[MacRumorUser]

Yea... I've sorta realised how crap the Wii looks on my 2007WFP. It looks worse than my Gamecube. Which is funny... Gamecube on the Wii looks better. I've also realised how you cannot play Wii sports on your own no matter what. The single most important game ever IMO but it's multiplayer only. Oh and it's rumoured S-Video doesn't work on PAL Wii's. No VGA makes me extremely annoyed.
I need a console that can use VGA, or even DVI. And with more single player and online games.

Welcome to realisation ;) :D

I came to that conclusion.

Yeah wii for me will remain the friends / family / group console.

Single player just doesnt feel the same on it at all.

Hence a Wii60 or WiiPS3 combo is far more a desirable prospect. Somthing with a plethora of singleplayer or online games to whilst away the hours when friends / family arent up for a bit of wii fun.

[Dagless]

Oh nonono. If the Wii had VGA or DVI output then I'd probably be in a very different situation. But going off how bad composite looks on Cube, Wii and everything else, it just makes sense to get the only console offering me VGA.

I mean I'd happily play single player Wii games.

Damn Nintendo. Between lack of video output options and it being region locked - the Wii is -2 from being perfect. :o

[e²Studios]

Oh nonono. If the Wii had VGA or DVI output then I'd probably be in a very different situation. But going off how bad composite looks on Cube, Wii and everything else, it just makes sense to get the only console offering me VGA.

I mean I'd happily play single player Wii games.

Damn Nintendo. Between lack of video output options and it being region locked - the Wii is -2 from being perfect. :o

I think the Wii should have at least supported 720p, the video chip in there is more than capable of it. I'm not so sure of the processors ability to do 720p though.

Region free is one of the things i love about the PS3 and the Wii being region locked is one of the biggest issues i have with it. I like playing import games, with the PS3 i can, with the Wii i can't :( The second biggest issue i have with the Wii is that it lacks any sort of digital audio output.

They made the DS region free, I would really like to see a response from Nintendo on why they region locked the Wii. Though im sure such a response is highly unlikely.

Kudos to the MS team for finally putting HDMI on their system (If the rumor is true), albeit pretty late in the game. I personally think that its a knee-jerk response to Sony, sort of a "me too" thing but thats my opinion. I still think it will be a while before 360 users see that 5-10 disc 1080p game though :p

Ed

[greatdevourer]

I think the Wii should have at least supported 720p, the video chip in there is more than capable of it. I'm not so sure of the processors ability to do 720p though. Bear in mind with the Wii that they want it to look good at low resolutions than bad at high resolutions (same reason why Resistance and Gears are 720p games) - Yes, it may be 1.5-2x more powerful, but 720p is 6 times as many pixels as 480i ;)

[Dagless]

Bear in mind with the Wii that they want it to look good at low resolutions than bad at high resolutions (same reason why Resistance and Gears are 720p games) - Yes, it may be 1.5-2x more powerful, but 720p is 6 times as many pixels as 480i ;)

Aye. And give me absolutely smooth games anyday. I lower resolutions and options when playing PC games just to get a smooth ride.

Not saying I'm against higher resolutions, but if theres a drop in framerate here or there then I'd jump somewhere smoother.

OH and one more thing I really want the 360 to have... stuff the nancy pancy 720i/p 1080 etc. using the VGA adapter or another one that hooks into monitors I would really appreciate being able to select 1680*1050 and other resolutions. In the screen options there should be a little tab for "expert settings" that lets you manually select a resolution (within ratio) up to 1080p. I mean... why not? My monitor can handle much more than 720 but just shy of 1080.
FIRMWARE UPDATE NOW.

[MacRumorUser]

I like playing import games, with the PS3 i can, with the Wii i can't :(

Funny because although Sony did the right thing in making the ps3 region free, they have made it completely importer unfriendly for europe by not allowing foreign shops to ship to europe, threatening importers with law suits if they ship games/hardware to europe.

A completely bizarre situation.

Bear in mind with the Wii that they want it to look good at low resolutions than bad at high resolutions (same reason why Resistance and Gears are 720p games) - Yes, it may be 1.5-2x more powerful, but 720p is 6 times as many pixels as 480i ;)

Aye. And give me absolutely smooth games anyday. I lower resolutions and options when playing PC games just to get a smooth ride.
.


Higher resolution does not mean they needed to sacrafice anything. Remeber the xbox had many 720p games and a few 1080i games and had a gpu slightly less sufficient than the wii's.

It is entirely feasible that they could have achieved it. Yes the GPU might not have been able to all the fancy hardware stuff the 360/ps3's can do, but upping the res on the current games would have certainly improved them graphically.



OH and one more thing I really want the 360 to have... stuff the nancy pancy 720i/p 1080 etc. using the VGA adapter or another one that hooks into monitors I would really appreciate being able to select 1680*1050 and other resolutions. In the screen options there should be a little tab for "expert settings" that lets you manually select a resolution (within ratio) up to 1080p. I mean... why not? My monitor can handle much more than 720 but just shy of 1080.
FIRMWARE UPDATE NOW.

Not going to happen.

Now your getting into realms of PC teritory which would be more damaging to the console industrys 'standard' (each console being and outputting the same) than anything else.

I mean what next, options to select graphics to tone down, turn up ? That kind of crap is why we game on consoles, so we can avoid it.

[pcypert]

Yeah,
Not something I'd like to see either. A console game shouldn't need to be scaled...and I don't think TV's would do it all that well anyways. Sure there's res difference between 720 and 1080, but not really considering most 1080 is also a lower res with the pixels used a different way so they're upped to 1080. Isn't it really at 1400 something? Anyway, consoles are nice because they're free of this. It's nice a couple years into a console when devs have really locked in the console and know how and what to push...no dropped fps, no unused space, textures, etc...just really slick, well managed games.

Paul

[greatdevourer]

Not going to happen.

Now your getting into realms of PC teritory which would be more damaging to the console industrys 'standard' (each console being and outputting the same) than anything else.

I mean what next, options to select graphics to tone down, turn up ? That kind of crap is why we game on consoles, so we can avoid it. :rolleyes: Not setting the resolution of the game, but the resolution of the scaler, which is perfectly feasible and doesn't "get into the realms of PC territory"

[MacRumorUser]

:rolleyes: Not setting the resolution of the game, but the resolution of the scaler, which is perfectly feasible and doesn't "get into the realms of PC territory"

maybe then yes, but would the scaler be capable of this ? I assume so if it can handle 1920x1080 ? :confused:

[Chone]

Funny because although Sony did the right thing in making the ps3 region free, they have made it completely importer unfriendly for europe by not allowing foreign shops to ship to europe, threatening importers with law suits if they ship games/hardware to europe.

Higher resolution does not mean they needed to sacrafice anything. Remeber the xbox had many 720p games and a few 1080i games and had a gpu slightly less sufficient than the wii's.

It is entirely feasible that they could have achieved it. Yes the GPU might not have been able to all the fancy hardware stuff the 360/ps3's can do, but upping the res on the current games would have certainly improved them graphically.

Maybe they did so so people who are traveling abroad and spot a cool game can buy it and know it can play on their PS3 but I do find strange Sony puts thats kind of restrictions, maybe they will lift once the PS3 becomes available in Europe, you know they do make a valid point when they say they importing hurts European retailers.

[QUOTE=Ed H;3216852]I think the Wii should have at least supported 720p, the video chip in there is more than capable of it. I'm not so sure of the processors ability to do 720p though.

Region free is one of the things i love about the PS3 and the Wii being region locked is one of the biggest issues i have with it. I like playing import games, with the PS3 i can, with the Wii i can't :( The second biggest issue i have with the Wii is that it lacks any sort of digital audio output.

They made the DS region free, I would really like to see a response from Nintendo on why they region locked the Wii. Though im sure such a response is highly unlikely.
Ed

I agree, the Wii should have the option of outputting 720p and 1080i, like the PS2 did with Gran Turismo or the Xbox did with a lot of games, I'd be hard pressed to believe Nintendo is not staying one generation behind graphically, but TWO (this would mean PS2 and Xbox are more powerful :rolleyes:), I'd be dissapointed in Nintendo then. And the processors don't have much to do with the pixel output.

You can with the Wii with a Freeloader, its only about 20$ and allows you to play import games (no backups or anything).

The DS makes more sense to be region free as it is a portable system but its still weird Nintendo would be such asses and make the Wii locked.

:rolleyes: Not setting the resolution of the game, but the resolution of the scaler, which is perfectly feasible and doesn't "get into the realms of PC territory"

But if you scale a 480i game to 1080p, its still a 480i game :o , I don't see whats the big deal with upscaling, there is no way upscaling can increase quality, correct me if I'm wrong but I fail to see how a quality can be increased without a performance hit by scaling? Its ridiculous but then again I've never owned an HDTV and I know crap about that but I would know 640x480 source can't be "upscaled" to 1280x1024 and look better.

[greatdevourer]

But if you scale a 480i game to 1080p, its still a 480i game :o , I don't see whats the big deal with upscaling, there is no way upscaling can increase quality, correct me if I'm wrong but I fail to see how a quality can be increased without a performance hit by scaling? Its ridiculous but then again I've never owned an HDTV and I know crap about that but I would know 640x480 source can't be "upscaled" to 1280x1024 and look better. Um... the minimum for the 360 is 720p, not 480i :rolleyes: All TFTs have scaler in them, but using the one in the 360 and outputting the monitor's native resolution will look better than letting the monitor do it instead

[thechris69]

is this new processor chip faster then the one thats currently in the xbox 360? hence, therefore, thus, would the 360 now be faster then the ps3?

[Jasonbot]

is this new processor chip faster then the one thats currently in the xbox 360? hence, therefore, thus, would the 360 now be faster then the ps3?

Think of it like when sony released the slim PS2, it's the same spec but it'll just run smoother. And remember, it's a console so games are standardised for Xbox 360, there shouldn't be discrimination based on speed boosts (which will not happen) a die shrink to 65nm is imminent though.

[Dagless]

I agree, the Wii should have the option of outputting 720p and 1080i, like the PS2 did with Gran Turismo or the Xbox did with a lot of games, I'd be hard pressed to believe Nintendo is not staying one generation behind graphically, but TWO (this would mean PS2 and Xbox are more powerful :rolleyes:), I'd be dissapointed in Nintendo then. And the processors don't have much to do with the pixel output.

Wow.

So resolution is a measure of a systems power? If I go run a 320*240 game of Quake on my iMac does that make a 480/576i PS2 faster?

The Wii is more than capable of outputting a 720i/p signal. But it isn't just about resolutions. It's about shaders and other GPU tricks. Components and features that pump up the size, cost, power usage and heat than a weaker video card. If anything upping the resolution of Wii games now would make them look worse as the textures were made to be viewed properly in 480/576.

[Chone]

Wow.

So resolution is a measure of a systems power? If I go run a 320*240 game of Quake on my iMac does that make a 480/576i PS2 faster?

The Wii is more than capable of outputting a 720i/p signal. But it isn't just about resolutions. It's about shaders and other GPU tricks. Components and features that pump up the size, cost, power usage and heat than a weaker video card. If anything upping the resolution of Wii games now would make them look worse as the textures were made to be viewed properly in 480/576.

I know but nothing taxes a system more than resolution and if a PS2 can output a great looking game like GT4 at 1080i and the Wii can't... that would be very dissapointing but the Wii can in fact do that but Nintendo is restricting it (or maybe not and developers just don't\can't do it yet). All I'm saying is hopefully the Wii lives up to the "twice as powerful as Xbox" claims, nice graphics are always a plus, like IGN's Erik Brudvig reviewer said in his Lost Planet 360 review "Anybody who says that graphics don't add to the gameplay needs to have a rocket zip past their head in Lost Planet."

Graphics add to the experience and I will go as far as to say graphics are a big part of the experience in many PC shooters (like FarCry or F.E.A.R.) and even some console games like Metal Gear Solid 3.

I'll probably get flamed for this and I'd like to clarify I'm getting a Wii over any other console first but I have to say this, graphics ARE important (except for some cases where artistic design compensates for any technical deficiencies)maybe not the most important thing but anyone who says otherwise is wrong, but that is just my opinion. All I'm saying, better graphics make a game better and in some cases (not all) bad graphics (including bad artistic design) can truly break a game, not every game, but some.

[Dagless]

I'll probably get flamed for this and I'd like to clarify I'm getting a Wii over any other console first but I have to say this, graphics ARE important (except for some cases where artistic design compensates for any technical deficiencies)maybe not the most important thing but anyone who says otherwise is wrong, but that is just my opinion. All I'm saying, better graphics make a game better and in some cases (not all) bad graphics (including bad artistic design) can truly break a game, not every game, but some.

Could you please apply that thinking to the DS and PSP? Or perhaps how the PS2 "won" the last gen home console market despite producing worst visuals from their competitors? Or any other point in history when graphics have actually made a system sell more?

Does this explain why the Wii has broke all previous sales records for launch and are still going strong just 1 month since launch?

[Freyqq]

this is probably a mod. It makes no sense for them to not use a cable in the regular slot...furthermore..where would the audio be?

[Chone]

Could you please apply that thinking to the DS and PSP? Or perhaps how the PS2 "won" the last gen home console market despite producing worst visuals from their competitors? Or any other point in history when graphics have actually made a system sell more?

Does this explain why the Wii has broke all previous sales records for launch and are still going strong just 1 month since launch?

Like I said, not the most important thing! Gameplay is better yes, but good gameplay with good graphics is an even better experience, you almost make it sound as if graphics don't matter at all. And the Xbox had some success because it was seen as a powerful console, its hardware and graphics netted it a lot of fans, graphics have gained the Xbox additional software sales as multiplatform games are usually better on the Xbox (because of graphics).

I'm not a graphics person really, I can enjoy a good game that looks like crap but I won't deny that graphics don't make the experience more enjoyable and more inmersive, they don't make or break a game (though some exceptions for atmosphere-centric games apply) but they certainly add to it (and depending on the game a lot or little).

The DS has won because its more fun to play but it would be even better if it had PSP graphics... see what I'm saying? The PS2 won because it had the most and best quality software, many reviewers pointed out God of War looked like a good Xbox game and said that makes the game more enjoyable altogether.

Get me?

[zap2]

I guess Bill will answer the questions in 2 hrs


http://www.microsoft.com/ces/

[applekid]

Get me?

Yeah, you're definitely making a fair point.

Try Far Cry on the Wii. Horrible graphics and still a horrible game although much more playable than Red Steel. Both games suck :)

But, like you said, graphics may be not the most important factor, but they still are an important factor.

[AJ Muni]

Might be off topic, But what is the difference between HDMI vs Component cables?

[Chone]

Might be off topic, But what is the difference between HDMI vs Component cables?

HDMI is digital and component is analog, also HDMI carries video and audio on one single cable. The actual difference is HDMI produces a sharper picture that needs no additional calibration.

Hey AJ Muni how is the Wii situation down there in Miami? I asked my cousin who is going there to buy me a Wii if he finds one but I'm afraid he'll come back empty handed.

[DISCOMUNICATION]

I agree, the Wii should have the option of outputting 720p and 1080i, like the PS2 did with Gran Turismo
Wow I wasn't aware of this. Was it the only HD game for the PS2? Do you set the resolution in a menu or do you just hold down buttons at start up like you do with progressive scan games? Think I'll go order it right now. Love how cheap all of the previous generation console games are now. Lot's of hits are under $10 now.
I'll buy a next gen system when:
1. The Wii becomes easier to get your hands on. $250 is a good price.
2. Worth while PS3 games and Sony exclusive films become available on Blu-ray
3. Not really a FPS fan, Microsoft's biggest sellers, but hey drop the price add more features (IPTV/HDMI announcement in 30 minutes?) and I'll buy a 360.

[ericsthename]

Could you please apply that thinking to the DS and PSP? Or perhaps how the PS2 "won" the last gen home console market despite producing worst visuals from their competitors? Or any other point in history when graphics have actually made a system sell more?

Does this explain why the Wii has broke all previous sales records for launch and are still going strong just 1 month since launch?


Sure, here's how it works:

Assume that the DS and the PSP were virtually identical. Now if the PSP had better graphics, its only rational to assume that it would be the most popular (aka "best") system.

Graphics are very important to gaming, because gaming by nature is a virtual reality. Nintendo has taken the idea that simulating motion is more realistic/natural than pressing button combinations. Others are still focusing on making the in-game experience LOOK realistic.

As for why one system sells more than another, its a mumble jumble of factors. Price, availability, type and number of softwares available are just a few of the major influences on how much a system sells.

When it comes to the "console wars" so much focus is placed upon sales! Sales figures only reflect popularity.

Take for example music: because britney spears sold more records last year than say, the beatles - does it then mean that Britney spears is a better artist than the beatles?

[greatdevourer]

Take for example music: because britney spears sold more records last year than say, the beatles - does it then mean that Britney spears is a better artist than the beatles? Oh yes - they both suck, but she's nicer to look at ;)

[zero2dash]

Nothing from the keynote yet to prove this as fake or real; all's I know if it ends up being real then all current 360 owners better get free upgrades. I just bought mine the first week of November and wouldn't take too nicely to a hose job like this :mad:

[weldon]

Nothing from the keynote yet to prove this as fake or real; all's I know if it ends up being real then all current 360 owners better get free upgrades. I just bought mine the first week of November and wouldn't take too nicely to a hose job like this :mad:
IPTV (which was announced during the keynote) will be available later in the year (in time for the holiday season) so it may coincide with Zephyr.

Still, why would you think this is a hose job? A company updating their products and making better tech available at the same or similar prices? Without any prewarning on emminent upgrades? Isn't this SOP today?

[gloss]

Oh yes - Brit and I both suck, but she's nicer to look at ;)

T, FTFY.

[MacRumorUser]

IPTV (which was announced during the keynote) will be available later in the year (in time for the holiday season) so it may coincide with Zephyr.

Still, why would you think this is a hose job? A company updating their products and making better tech available at the same or similar prices? Without any prewarning on emminent upgrades? Isn't this SOP today?

Agreed.

Actually now the 120gb HDD makes perfect sense & hdmi.

The 360 is turning into a very capable machine indeed.

[zero2dash]

IPTV (which was announced during the keynote) will be available later in the year (in time for the holiday season) so it may coincide with Zephyr.

Still, why would you think this is a hose job? A company updating their products and making better tech available at the same or similar prices? Without any prewarning on emminent upgrades? Isn't this SOP today?

I would consider it a hose job because they're doing more than updating the cpu design; they're including other features that everyone who already owns a 360 gets left out on at the price they paid.

Consoles aren't upgraded like that, sorry; never have been. Aside from add-ons, the fundamental basics of a console have never changed after the ship date between one version or another. Sure, the outer "innards" may change (revised Nintendo hardware makes smaller consoles, PsOne/slimline Ps2) but we're not talking about a Playstation that originally came with a 1x cd drive and then a year later, it's a 4x drive that loads games for times as fast and all the 1x'ers are stuck out in the cold with their slow drives.

The point is: if anyone would've said "hey, you know, in two month's time they'll be speculating on a new 360 with HDMI + a hard drive with 600% more space" then I would've never purchased a 360 in November (instead of a Wii), I would've waited a few months and bought the updated 360 with the HDMI and larger HD.

[MacRumorUser]

The point is: if anyone would've said "hey, you know, in two month's time they'll be speculating on a new 360 with HDMI + a hard drive with 600% more space" then I would've never purchased a 360 in November (instead of a Wii), I would've waited a few months and bought the updated 360 with the HDMI and larger HD.

It's looking like your going have to wait more than a couple of months. Holiday season 2007 means you would have had to wait 12 months, but I do take your point.

But for me as a launch buyer, it means I get a nice upgrade set 2 years on and I should still get a reasonable price on trade in so I'm not that dissapointed, :)

[zero2dash]

It's looking like your going have to wait more than a couple of months. Holiday season 2007 means you would have had to wait 12 months, but I do take your point.

But for me as a launch buyer, it means I get a nice upgrade set 2 years on and I should still get a reasonable price on trade in so I'm not that dissapointed, :)

Ehh, if it's holiday 07, you're right, I couldn't have waited. :D
If they do do this (with no free upgrades), I'll just either buy a new one and return the old one or maybe keep it for another room. That's probably their strategy right there...getting us owners to purchase a 2nd 360. :p

[MacRumorUser]

That's probably their strategy right there...getting us owners to purchase a 2nd 360. :p

Well it works for Nintendo GB/GBA/DS/Wii (with DVD) :D
But yeah I'll probably do the same as yourself. :)

[Chone]

I would consider it a hose job because they're doing more than updating the cpu design; they're including other features that everyone who already owns a 360 gets left out on at the price they paid.

Consoles aren't upgraded like that, sorry; never have been. Aside from add-ons, the fundamental basics of a console have never changed after the ship date between one version or another. Sure, the outer "innards" may change (revised Nintendo hardware makes smaller consoles, PsOne/slimline Ps2) but we're not talking about a Playstation that originally came with a 1x cd drive and then a year later, it's a 4x drive that loads games for times as fast and all the 1x'ers are stuck out in the cold with their slow drives.

The point is: if anyone would've said "hey, you know, in two month's time they'll be speculating on a new 360 with HDMI + a hard drive with 600% more space" then I would've never purchased a 360 in November (instead of a Wii), I would've waited a few months and bought the updated 360 with the HDMI and larger HD.

The Xbox360 is a games machine and as a game machine, there is nothing the new 360 could bring you over your old one... the rest of the functions are aside and can (and should) be upgraded.

Now if Microsoft was putting a better processor in it or something that would render games unplayable on other Xbox360s then that would be a hose.

You should understand thats how stuff works, I bought a MacBook Pro a month before the new C2D models wre introduced and I'm not complaining about it because I'm still enjoying my MBP a lot.

What your Xbox360 is worthless because its not the latest? :rolleyes:

[GFLPraxis]

I could care less about 120 GB HDD though (I assume Microsoft would be moving to 3.5" hard drives? Because a 120 GB notebook-sized HD is dang expensive...

Now, if Microsoft included WiFi, I might actually run out and buy one.

The Xbox360 is a games machine and as a game machine, there is nothing the new 360 could bring you over your old one... the rest of the functions are aside and can (and should) be upgraded.

Now if Microsoft was putting a better processor in it or something that would render games unplayable on other Xbox360s then that would be a hose.

You should understand thats how stuff works, I bought a MacBook Pro a month before the new C2D models wre introduced and I'm not complaining about it because I'm still enjoying my MBP a lot.

What your Xbox360 is worthless because its not the latest? :rolleyes:


My Nintendo DS is worthless because the screen isn't as bright as the new one! :p [/whiner]

[xli_ne]

i'm sure they will release a 120GB hard drive as a separate add-on IF they even release this updated 360

[Josias]

Experiment of though:
Microsoft releases a new Xbox 360 with HDMI output, supporting upto 1080p gameplay.

I get a 1080p TV and hook iy up to my HDMI Xbox 360. On all my Xbox 360 games it says they are capable of 480p/720p/1080i, these were however released when only the Component 360 was available.

Will the game be in 1080p, or is the disc in one way or the other limited? Right now the only bottleneck is the Xbox, would the disc be limited, or can I enoy 1080 HD with 60 fps (1080p)?:)

[pkis]

IPTV (which was announced during the keynote) will be available later in the year (in time for the holiday season) so it may coincide with Zephyr.

Swisscom recently launched a Microsoft-based IPTV solution for the Swiss market. The package called "Bluewin TV" is the real deal - they offer about 100 channels (HD will follow in July) + tons of pay TV, requiring VDSL lines of at least 15 mbit/s (which includes about 3.5 mbit/s for surfing the web, the rest is reserved for TV). The platform is said to be the same as on the new Xbox 360 although it's coming with a set-top-box of its own for now.
I've been lucky enough to get the package and can tell you that this thing is pretty darn good.

i'm sure they will release a 120GB hard drive as a separate add-on IF they even release this updated 360

They most likely won't, because the HDMI interface is necessary for DRM protected HD-content. And there's no way they can retro-fit an HDMI-interface for the earlier 360 models. Those of us who already own an Xbox 360 won't be happy about that. At least I'm not. They'd better offer some sort of exchange program for early adopters.

[greatdevourer]

Experiment of though:
Microsoft releases a new Xbox 360 with HDMI output, supporting upto 1080p gameplay.

I get a 1080p TV and hook iy up to my HDMI Xbox 360. On all my Xbox 360 games it says they are capable of 480p/720p/1080i, these were however released when only the Component 360 was available.

Will the game be in 1080p, or is the disc in one way or the other limited? Right now the only bottleneck is the Xbox, would the disc be limited, or can I enoy 1080 HD with 60 fps (1080p)?:) The current one supports 1080p. However, you're unlikely to see too many games render that this generation

[Haoshiro]

Experiment of though:
Microsoft releases a new Xbox 360 with HDMI output, supporting upto 1080p gameplay.

I get a 1080p TV and hook iy up to my HDMI Xbox 360. On all my Xbox 360 games it says they are capable of 480p/720p/1080i, these were however released when only the Component 360 was available.

Will the game be in 1080p, or is the disc in one way or the other limited? Right now the only bottleneck is the Xbox, would the disc be limited, or can I enoy 1080 HD with 60 fps (1080p)?:)

This disc shouldn't be that limiting a factor, your talking just running at a higher resolution. It could use more disk space if they used higher resolution textures, or if for some reason they put in FMV that was 1080p, but that is unlikely.

In the end it's not going to make much of a difference for games. They will be designed for 720p, and even the current 360 will upscale to 1080p if your tv supports it.

What you'll be getting is 1080p upscaling in DVDs (which isn't allowed with anything but HDMI, iirc) as well as the ability to have 1080p HD-DVD (previously only available with VGA). Plus the added benefit of a somewhat clearer digital signal. Beyond the better digital signal, gaming itself shouldn't be any different over HDMI. It's DVD/HD-DVD that benefits the most.

[Dagless]

They most likely won't, because the HDMI interface is necessary for DRM protected HD-content. And there's no way they can retro-fit an HDMI-interface for the earlier 360 models. Those of us who already own an Xbox 360 won't be happy about that. At least I'm not. They'd better offer some sort of exchange program for early adopters.

I trust you wanted a new C2D iMac as you had bought a CD previously? :rolleyes: Did you complain to Nintendo when they launched the DS Lite?

Upgrade. move with the times. So long as software works on both models then there is nothing to complain about. Every Playstation console (barring the PSP and PS3) have seen multiple revisions. PSone? PStwo? PSX (Japan one)? DS Lite? Gamecube without D-Sub output? Gameboy Pocket? GBA SP and Micro?

[zero2dash]

Gamecube without D-Sub output?

...including a free exchange of a Gamecube with the D-Sub direct from Nintendo themselves. ;)

[Markleshark]

Fake? (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=71634) Maybe... At least we know its a real machine though...