10.4 Million SOLD

[MacRumorUser]

A lot of debate on this forum has mentioned that the Xbox 360 has performed badly, that it hasnt reached it's goals, then numbers revealed are shipped and not sold.

Well time to clear up the confusion.

Microsoft opened this years CES and revealed the numbers

Bach revealed that 10.4 million Xbox 360s were sold worldwide in 13 months, 400,000 more units than projected. A total of 5 million Xbox Live users are now subscribed to Xbox Live -- with a majority of users being new Xbox users. And Epic's Gears of War has reached worldwide success, selling 2.7 million units in the first eight weeks.

10.4 Million SOLD, not shipped. More than they projected.

5 Million users on Live. That's more than I thought and obviously shows how important Live is to the Xbox experience.


As the first 'next gen' console to reach the milestone, and the unprecedented success of GOW it puts microsoft in a very strong position.

Developers are going to be more relutant than ever to release PS3 exclusive titles, simply because if by the middle of summer Sony should have shipped 5 million, microsoft will be on it's way to 15 million.

It just doesnt make finanical sense for a publisher to release an exclusive on a system with a third less sales/shipped than its competitor and a lower contention ratio. It's too big a gamble when a game is costing $5-10 million to produce.

The real test will come after Sony have launched in Europe and towards late summer when the usual 'drought' period for consoles is at it's pinacle.

By then we should have a clearer picture of how sales on all the consoles. Well be able to see if the momentum Nintendo have had with the Wii launch success continues or if they squander it by having a lack of major titles hitting retail.

2007 will be interesting indeed.

[JackAxe]

Not bad, but no PSP. :)

<]=)

[MacRumorUser]

Not bad, but no PSP. :)

<]=)

Or DS for that matter. ;)

[JackAxe]

Yep, but pretty good.

I wonder how many they shipped........... At least two to my friend's store. :)

<]=)

[MacRumorUser]

Yep, but pretty good.

I wonder how many they shipped........... At least two to my friend's store. :)

<]=)

Well if its 10.5 mill sold, then I assume it must be around 12 mill shipped at least.

[Archmagination]

There is a misunderstanding here.

Microsoft SELLS the consoles to the store(Like Best Buy, Walmart, etc) and Microsoft then counts that as SOLD!! Its because Microsoft has made their money off it.. the stores haven't made any money because they haven't sold them to their customers yet. Thats the reason why their are a lot of Xbox 360's(some stores have around a 100!!) in the stores.. by most accounts only about 8.5 million have actually been bought by consumers. So that leaves about 2 million on the store shelves.

Sony does the same thing as Microsoft but Nintendo actually counts how many have made it into their consumers hands. So when Nintendo says: 4 million Wii's sold then that means 4 million Wii's have been sold by the stores.

[Dagless]

Have we got indivudual numbers for Europe, or better still the UK? I only know of 2 people who now own a 360, a lot less than folk who owned an original Xbox (pretty much everyone at my college). It's a great machine, IMO way better than the original Xbox which failed on many levels (though I still owned) but is it selling as much in the same timeframe?

10.4 million is an awful lot. The PS3 has a mighty hard battle, since the public see both systems as being just as powerful (or maybe the PS3 weaker from the look of the launch titles) and to say both consoles are gunning for the same market.

Kudos MS. You currently have 17 of my Sterling Pounds, do a good job in 2007 and you'll have 300 more.

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but IPTV. Now that's nice. EyeTV says that my Freeview digital signal is 5mbps, that's for 576i TV. What kind of connection speed are you going to need to run that smoothly?! Hell, be sure nobody else uses the internet whilst your watching the climax of some long running storyline in your favourite Australian soap opera. Well done IPTV thinkers, you've limited your market to the utmost miniscule of markets.
IP Radio or something like that would be nice. Something to rival DAB.

[darkwing]

There is a misunderstanding here.

Microsoft SELLS the consoles to the store(Like Best Buy, Walmart, etc) and Microsoft then counts that as SOLD!! Its because Microsoft has made their money off it.. the stores haven't made any money because they haven't sold them to their customers yet. Thats the reason why their are a lot of Xbox 360's(some stores have around a 100!!) in the stores.. by most accounts only about 8.5 million have actually been bought by consumers. So that leaves about 2 million on the store shelves.

Sony does the same thing as Microsoft but Nintendo actually counts how many have made it into their consumers hands. So when Nintendo says: 4 million Wii's sold then that means 4 million Wii's have been sold by the stores.

And how would Nintendo have those numbers unless they look at how many orders come in? Who's to say the latest orders were filled? (Ultimately, when demand drops.) As far as I'm aware, they only know what's been sold when stores make new orders and they know what isn't sold when stores return them. Anybody here understand this stuff real well? I'd love to know where all these numbers come from anyway.

[MacRumorUser]

There is a misunderstanding here.

Microsoft SELLS the consoles to the store(Like Best Buy, Walmart, etc) and Microsoft then counts that as SOLD!!

And how would Nintendo have those numbers unless they look at how many orders come in? Who's to say the latest orders were filled? (Ultimately, when demand drops.) As far as I'm aware, they only know what's been sold when stores make new orders and they know what isn't sold when stores return them. Anybody here understand this stuff real well? I'd love to know where all these numbers come from anyway.


No these are units sold. Microsoft have emphatically tried to clear up that misunderstanding.

Darkwing is correct. Units are SHIPPED when they are given to the stores. All stock is usually on an almost sale or return basis these days. They then wait for the store to order more and then they know how many have been SOLD as opposed to SHIPPED.

10.4 Million Sold - not shipped

[greatdevourer]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but IPTV. Now that's nice. EyeTV says that my Freeview digital signal is 5mbps, that's for 576i TV. What kind of connection speed are you going to need to run that smoothly?! Hell, be sure nobody else uses the internet whilst your watching the climax of some long running storyline in your favourite Australian soap opera. Well done IPTV thinkers, you've limited your market to the utmost miniscule of markets.
IP Radio or something like that would be nice. Something to rival DAB. Bear in mind that EyeTV works in MPEG2, not H.264 or VC-1 (VC-1 is more likely for the 360), which the 360 is more than capable of ;) Even MPEG4 is a hell of a lot better than MPEG2

[Dagless]

Bear in mind that EyeTV works in MPEG2, not H.264 or VC-1 (VC-1 is more likely for the 360), which the 360 is more than capable of ;) Even MPEG4 is a hell of a lot better than MPEG2

So 5mbps drops down to 3mbps?

What'd be much much better would be MS sticking in a TV tuner. A built in EyeTV style device. Bam. Little Lucy gets to find out the rabid Neighbours murderer whilst mummy gets to browse Google Earth in peace.

[greatdevourer]

So 5mbps drops down to 3mbps?

What'd be much much better would be MS sticking in a TV tuner. A built in EyeTV style device. Bam. Little Lucy gets to find out the rabid Neighbours murderer whilst mummy gets to browse Google Earth in peace. If we're talking SD, abouts 1mbps; HD, abouts 2-3, and this is with XviD, not anything better

[MacRumorUser]

Lads if you want to discuss IPTV - there is a new thread for you here

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3221479#post3221479

:)

[zero2dash]

There is a misunderstanding here.

Microsoft SELLS the consoles to the store(Like Best Buy, Walmart, etc) and Microsoft then counts that as SOLD!!

As several have already pointed out - you're incorrect.
Microsoft counts "sold" as "purchased by customers" just like Nintendo.

Sony on the other hand thinks once the system is made, it's considered "sold" because eventually one day it will be sold. :rolleyes: Sony is notorious for fibbing and trying to pass off "shipped" totals as "sold" totals; I've never heard one iota of information about Microsoft or Nintendo doing this.

[sikkinixx]

I'm still mad about the new version that is seeming more and more likely to come out :mad: They would have sold 10,399,999 systems had I known they would pull this crap a year and half later.

[MacRumorUser]

I'm still mad about the new version that is seeming more and more likely to come out :mad: They would have sold 10,399,999 systems had I known they would pull this crap a year and half later.

They all do it though. They all make revisions that improve hardware, some big and some small. I dont think its anything to get too upset about.

No doubt PS3 & Wii will see some form or revisio change before the year is out as well.

[sikkinixx]

They all do it though. They all make revisions that improve hardware, some big and some small. I dont think its anything to get too upset about.

No doubt PS3 & Wii will see some form or revisio change before the year is out as well.

But by adding HDMI they are adding a big something missing from the 360. Something that I wanted it have have. It just shows their lack of foresight (or perhaps they just give the finger to Sony)

I can't seem to edit so above I meant "Something I wanted it to have".

Little changes like the new chips and such aren't so bad but when you add stuff to the system only a year after it came out...come on....

[barr08]

I'm still mad about the new version that is seeming more and more likely to come out :mad: They would have sold 10,399,999 systems had I known they would pull this crap a year and half later.

I bought mine last week from gamestop, and the guy told me I have one year to return the thing for any reason. If the new 360 gets released in the next 51 weeks, I will just return my 360 and get one of the new ones.

I'm not just tooting my own horn here, my point is, if you bought from gamestop, look into this deal and whether or not it applies to you!

[Haoshiro]

But by adding HDMI they are adding a big something missing from the 360. Something that I wanted it have have. It just shows their lack of foresight (or perhaps they just give the finger to Sony)

Reminds me of DS vs DS Lite, although a second revision of 360 is likely to be less of a big deal then even that.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

I bought mine last week from gamestop, and the guy told me I have one year to return the thing for any reason. If the new 360 gets released in the next 51 weeks, I will just return my 360 and get one of the new ones.

I'm not just tooting my own horn here, my point is, if you bought from gamestop, look into this deal and whether or not it applies to you!

I think they are referring to the manufacturer's warranty and not the store's return/exchange policy which on hardware I think is 14 days and 7 days for software. I would look into getting that clarified.

[darkwing]

They all do it though. They all make revisions that improve hardware, some big and some small. I dont think its anything to get too upset about.

No doubt PS3 & Wii will see some form or revisio change before the year is out as well.

Not necessarily. The PSP hasn't changed. Still has the same model number, even. I was going to wait a few months to get a PS3 because my PS2 that I bought 4 months after launch was like revision 3, but I don't think that there's much to do in the way of revisions in today's era of firmware updates.

[MikeDTyke]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but IPTV. Now that's nice. EyeTV says that my Freeview digital signal is 5mbps, that's for 576i TV. What kind of connection speed are you going to need to run that smoothly?! Hell, be sure nobody else uses the internet whilst your watching the climax of some long running storyline in your favourite Australian soap opera. Well done IPTV thinkers, you've limited your market to the utmost miniscule of markets.
IP Radio or something like that would be nice. Something to rival DAB.

Freeview uses mpeg2 encoding, which is far less efficient or tolerant of fluctuating bandwidth as you'd find in an iptv setup.

mpeg4 or h.264 at 700 to 1000kbps is plenty nice to be comparable to that 576i freeview signal and far less likely to give you the blocks (digital interference) when its blowing a gail outside.

M. :D

[MacRumorUser]

Not necessarily. The PSP hasn't changed. Still has the same model number, even. I was going to wait a few months to get a PS3 because my PS2 that I bought 4 months after launch was like revision 3, but I don't think that there's much to do in the way of revisions in today's era of firmware updates.

but didnt they update it to corect some of the problems with the original square button, and some of the screens that had terrible dead pixel problems ? That could be seen as a revision. :)




By the way lads, edit post seems to be down at the moment. Probably as the site is prepared for the keynote speech later, so expect a few 'issues' later this evening as it always is when there's a big announcement and an avalanche of posts.

[sikkinixx]

but didnt they update it to corect some of the problems with the original square button, and some of the screens that had terrible dead pixel problems ? That could be seen as a revision. :)


yeah but not in the same league as adding new connectors and such ;)

[barr08]

I think they are referring to the manufacturer's warranty and not the store's return/exchange policy which on hardware I think is 14 days and 7 days for software. I would look into getting that clarified.


No I am fairly positive this is a gamestop thing. The guy who sold it to me (someone I knew from high school, he wouldn't BS me) said that while it is covered by the microsoft warranty as well, gamestop was offering this warranty and a copy of GRAW free when you purchased the system. I made sure to understand that for one year I could get this replaced, not matter what happened to it. He told me I could run it over with my car in 364 days, bring it in, and as long as it was in the box, they would give me a new one.

Side note, not entirely related to the longevity of this warranty, but the first 360 I bought from them didn't work out of the box, and I brought it back to this guy, who listened to my story, took one look at the system, and threw it on the ground as hard as he could. He and I shared a good laugh, while the other gamestop employee looked on in horror, right before getting me a new 360. I will call tonight to make absolutely sure I have the details right, but I am fairly positive the deal I got from gamestop is as I am describing it.

Edit: Just looked it up, the deal described here (http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product&#37;5Fid=B020253AE) is what I got. Gamestop will replace a deffective console for one year.

So they replace it. Unless Microsoft decides to completely pull the original 360's from the shelf, my plan won't work. Oh well, it was worth a shot.

[Coded-Dude]

Side note, not entirely related to the longevity of this warranty, but the first 360 I bought from them didn't work out of the box, and I brought it back to this guy, who listened to my story, took one look at the system, and threw it on the ground as hard as he could. He and I shared a good laugh, while the other gamestop employee looked on in horror, right before getting me a new 360.

I lol'd

[MacRumorUser]

I lol'd

I LOL'd when I read that gamestop were employing morons with IQ's that make Amobea seem like genius.

If I was the store manager that guy would have been out on his ass the same day regardless of what he threw to the ground. :rolleyes:

[barr08]

I LOL'd when I read that gamestop were employing morons with IQ's that make Amobea seem like genius.

If I was the store manager that guy would have been out on his ass the same day regardless of what he threw to the ground. :rolleyes:

Yeah, this kid was never the brightest bulb. But, in his defense, they just send the defective products back to MS, presumably to be scrapped for parts? Maybe not, but if that's the case, no real harm done.

Plus it was hella funny.

[MacRumorUser]

Yeah, this kid was never the brightest bulb. But, in his defense, they just send the defective products back to MS, presumably to be scrapped for parts? Maybe not, but if that's the case, no real harm done.
.

But if he's doing that it means he's showing little respect to the store's goods, and I'd hate to imagine what else he's doing and getting away with. I'd still fire him on the spot.

[barr08]

But if he's doing that it means he's showing little respect to the store's goods, and I'd hate to imagine what else he's doing and getting away with. I'd still fire him on the spot.

He was probably just jealous, he told me earlier that night he has a PS3 ;) .

[twistedlegato]

Wii has almost sold 4 million in less than a QUARTER of the time....who shall win the console war :confused: :p

[MacRumorUser]

Wii has almost sold 4 million in less than a QUARTER of the time....who shall win the console war :confused: :p

As i already posted in the first post.

It depends if Nintendo can continue the momentum the Wii has had over holiday season, by providing a regular stream of quality titlees that appeal to gamers and non gamers alike. This is their real test and it's one they have failed at in the past. 6 - 10 months between games is not good enough.

They need games like darts, poker, sodoku, wii sports 2, solitaire, chess, brain age wii etc... I know these are all boring to gamers, but for the non-gamers that nintendo have spruced the interest in, they are ones that they will be happy to play and lend themselves well to remote and as little button combinations possible.


If nintendo repeat mistakes of the past and release 1 major release every 6 - 12 months then I can see Wii never reaching its potential.

[JackAxe]

As i already posted in the first post.

It depends if Nintendo can continue the momentum the Wii has had over holiday season, by providing a regular stream of quality titlees that appeal to gamers and non gamers alike. This is their real test and it's one they have failed at in the past. 6 - 10 months between games is not good enough.

They need games like darts, poker, sodoku, wii sports 2, solitaire, chess, brain age wii etc... I know these are all boring to gamers, but for the non-gamers that nintendo have spruced the interest in, they are ones that they will be happy to play and lend themselves well to remote and as little button combinations possible.


If nintendo repeat mistakes of the past and release 1 major release every 6 - 12 months then I can see Wii never reaching its potential.

This is the the test for any console manufacture/publisher. Why is Nintendo any different, and how have they failed?

One major release is in the time period you mention, is what any company in Nintendo's position would want. Look at the 360, it really only has one IMO; GoW. Nintendo obviuosly knows what they're doing. Their games in general are some of the most popular, they've always profited, where as MS has not, and still hasn't in gaming. Currently the DS Lite is by far the best selling console. So I just can't see Nintendo making a mistake as you describe, nor the Wii loosing its momentum anytime soon. They've been doing this longer than the rest, so they deinfately have a better understanding of what needs to be done than you or I when it comes to these matters.

<]=)

[zap2]

It depends if Nintendo can continue the momentum the Wii has had over holiday season,



Looks at the DS....they'll keep it up:)



I'd like to know were xBox 360 was when it hit 4 million. I know it was like 6m this summer, and at time with 6 milllion xBox 360 wasn't flying off the shelf.

[JackAxe]

The 360 still isn't flying off the shelves. :) There definately was no shortage this holiday season and the PS2 was still selling better.

<]=)

[MacRumorUser]

This is the the test for any console manufacture/publisher. Why is Nintendo any different, and how have they failed?

Err look at the cube. 1 or 2 decent AAA titles per year from Nintendo, and a load of fillers like Mario Tennis / Baseball / Golf & a myriad of bland insipid marioparty titles. It was like waiting in a drought for the rain to come, but it kept arriving later and later.

They also fecked up europe by not releasing a lot of games untill months or years after they were released elsewhere.

And if your going to look at history. Their home consoles have sold less and less per generation.



Looks at the DS....they'll keep it up:)



DS really looked better a year after it launched software wise than it did in launch. Software wise at launch was fairly meh....

Its doing great now though. :)


The 360 still isn't flying off the shelves. :) There definately was no shortage this holiday season and the PS2 was still selling better.

<]=)

Thats because Microsoft is able to keep up with supply to the stores. That does not mean they werent selling. If you look at the retail figure they sold 2 million units in America alone this holiday season and 4 world wide. If that's not flying then I'd like to know what your definition is :rolleyes:

Seriously a bit of objectivity now and again in your posts would be appreciated.

[SpankyPenzaanz]

Slightly off-topic of the most recent flaming but this should be somewhat good news for live users in that Symphony of the Night will arrive soon

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/753/753700p1.html

[MacRumorUser]

Sweet.... i wonder how many points ? 800 ? 1200 ?

[Jovian9]

Slightly off-topic of the most recent flaming but this should be somewhat good news for live users in that Symphony of the Night will arrive soon

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/753/753700p1.html

Awesome!!!!!! I cannot wait for this :)

[Ryan5505]

I just wanted to try to make it clear how companies account for sales. I am a CPA(certified public accountant). When and company accounts for sales it is first set in how they want to account for the sale, FOB or FOA. One meaning that the inventory is still owned by microsoft until the destination, or sold when the order leaves the company to the resailer. Microsoft is accounting ONLY for the orders it has sent to Best Buy, Gamestop, Etc.. There is no way that Microsoft or any other company can account for the actual units in peoples homes. That would make it become a periodic inventory which would cost millions to get results. So when you walk into best buy and see about 100 360s sitting on the ground in the game area multiply that by the number of best buy stores and blah blah and subtract that from what microsoft has sold. Microsoft is not doing anything wrong, they are accounting for the "SALES" but its not a sale to a client, its business to business. this goes for all companies practices unless they only sell direct. So no nintendo is not different from Microsoft, Sony, or a bandaid company. These are GAAP( generally accepted accounting practicies) and is how we accountants find ourselves in a grey area.

Their may be grammer errors, but I am just trying to get the point to you guys, Thanks

[JackAxe]

Err look at the cube. 1 or 2 decent AAA titles per year from Nintendo, and a load of fillers like Mario Tennis / Baseball / Golf & a myriad of bland insipid marioparty titles. It was like waiting in a drought for the rain to come, but it kept arriving later and later.

They also fecked up europe by not releasing a lot of games untill months or years after they were released elsewhere.

And if your going to look at history. Their home consoles have sold less and less per generation.





DS really looked better a year after it launched software wise than it did in launch. Software wise at launch was fairly meh....

Its doing great now though. :)




Thats because Microsoft is able to keep up with supply to the stores. That does not mean they werent selling. If you look at the retail figure they sold 2 million units in America alone this holiday season and 4 world wide. If that's not flying then I'd like to know what your definition is :rolleyes:

Seriously a bit of objectivity now and again in your posts would be appreciated.

Nintendo still made a profit on every cube sold, it sold well over 20 million. Sure it's no PS2, but it's by no means a failure. To me a failure is a system like the XBox. It never made a profit for MS, it put them billions in the hole, was rampant with piracy towards the end, and reallly only had one game worth mentioning; Halo. When I look back, me and my friends spent more time on Mario Party xx, than on Halo. Nintendo had plenty of good games, but it all comes down to personal preference to state the obvious.

Since you consider the Cube a failure, what's your view on a the XBox?

What were you saying about objectivity... How about a bit of hypocrisy now and then from your posts.

Last I checked, flying off the shelves usually implied that retailers can't keep an item in stock, because of its popularity. The DS Lite fits that descritipion, the 360 does not.

<]=)

[SpankyPenzaanz]

[b]reallly only had one game worth mentioning; Halo<]=)

Knights of the Old Republic (IMHO Probably best xbox game EVER)
Jade Empire
Beyond Good and Evil
Brothers in Arms:EIB (best ww2 shooter to date imho)
Splinter Cell (not my cake but I had fun with the co-op in chaos theory)
Prince of Persia

Granted some of the prior list were multiplatform but you can't deny that Halo is the not only one on xbox worth mentioning.

[b]What were you saying about objectivity... How about a bit of hypocrisy now and then from your posts.
<]=)

If you read through MRU's posts you willl see he is usually the voice of reason in these forums

[risc]

Wii has almost sold 4 million in less than a QUARTER of the time....who shall win the console war :confused: :p


The gamers I hope! I couldn't care less which console wins as long as I'm having fun, but then hey I'm no fanboy I'll buy all of them.

[ReanimationLP]

Nintendo still made a profit on every cube sold, it sold well over 20 million. Sure it's no PS2, but it's by no means a failure. To me a failure is a system like the XBox. It never made a profit for MS, it put them billions in the hole, was rampant with piracy towards the end, and reallly only had one game worth mentioning; Halo. When I look back, me and my friends spent more time on Mario Party xx, than on Halo. Nintendo had plenty of good games, but it all comes down to personal preference to state the obvious.

Since you consider the Cube a failure, what's your view on a the XBox?

What were you saying about objectivity... How about a bit of hypocrisy now and then from your posts.

Last I checked, flying off the shelves usually implied that retailers can't keep an item in stock, because of its popularity. The DS Lite fits that descritipion, the 360 does not.

<]=)

Actually, from what I've read, when they slashed the price of the Gamecube to 99 dollars, for a few months they were losing money as they waited for manufacturing to get cheaper. Oh, and Nintendo sees the Gamecube as a failure compared to their previous consoles.

[JackAxe]

Actually, from what I've read, when they slashed the price of the Gamecube to 99 dollars, for a few months they were losing money as they waited for manufacturing to get cheaper. Oh, and Nintendo sees the Gamecube as a failure compared to their previous consoles.

Even at $99, Nintendo still made a profit on each one sold. It was needed to get rid of a growing surplus.

You also have to consider that although it did not sell as well as their previous consoles, the gaming market has grown quite a bit since that time, as in more console choices. I've heard of Nintendo stating that releasing it in indigo was a mistake, but not them calling it a failure, not even in comparison, but I could have missed that tid-bit of info.

<]=)

If you read through MRU's posts you willl see he is usually the voice of reason in these forums

I like what he writes a majority of the time and I agree whole heartily whith what you've stated. But when it comes to my friends, or my clients, or peeps I meet online, I'll sometimes have my objections to their views, which is something I've also noticed in his posts. This is why I used the term hypocrisy. Something we are all guilty of. ;)

<]=)

Knights of the Old Republic (IMHO Probably best xbox game EVER)
Jade Empire
Beyond Good and Evil
Brothers in Arms:EIB (best ww2 shooter to date imho)
Splinter Cell (not my cake but I had fun with the co-op in chaos theory)
Prince of Persia

Granted some of the prior list were multiplatform but you can't deny that Halo is the not only one on xbox worth mentioning.


I'll give you KotOR. :p Like I really have say. :)

Yes I was generalizing with just Halo, but it pretty much sums up the Xbox's existence. It's the one game that was played to death by my friends and I. Cooperative play alone was why I played it through several times. But beyond that, there was more bleh than good. A handfull of good games for any console just isn't enough, but as mentioned, it's all personal preferences, so my game of choice might be bleh in your book.

<]=)

[wyatt23]

what i don't understand is the inability for everyone to see all of the consoles each as a different, capable, and extremely awesome machine.

xbox 360: i was a naysayer. the i picked one up for cheap and have gears of war and oblivion... needless to say, i'm not longer a naysayer. xbox live is the best online playing, hands down. plus IPTV soon... HELLO!

wii: i have been eying this thing since the days of the revolution. it puts the fun back into playing. the graphics don't even CLOSE to cut it, but the fun factor is there. more so than other consoles. for crying out loud, i even enjoyed playing Far Cry Vengence! when wii online games start coming out, expect another 4 million to be sold.

ps3: this system is ahead of it's time. the only reason you have to bash it, is sony's terrible job in production and distribution, AND lack of quality launch titles. tho, i've seen resistence and it too has oblivion.


all of these systems are amazing. xbox has had a 1 year advantage in sales. wii is selling like hot cakes. ps3 is going to be the best system of all time.

regardless of sales, and regardless of the semantics of "the sale", the new systems don't have the headstart like xbox. i have two of the three, and if i had a better job, i'd have all three. true gamers should embrace all three of these systems, because this is just the first generation of truly great systems. let them just beeeeeee!

[Ryan5505]

what i don't understand is the inability for everyone to see all of the consoles each as a different, capable, and extremely awesome machine.

ps3: this system is ahead of it's time. the only reason you have to bash it, is sony's terrible job in production and distribution, AND lack of quality launch titles. tho, i've seen resistence and it too has oblivion.


all of these systems are amazing. xbox has had a 1 year advantage in sales. wii is selling like hot cakes. ps3 is going to be the best system of all time.


You are exactly right. I have played the systems and the xbox is fun, but I just dont enjoy the machine as I do my PS3, plus I am not a fan of microsoft.

The Wii seems like the sports games are fun, but playing madden is a little difficult, but other controllers can be purchased.

The PS3 is well before its time. People are complaining about the price of it. I dont understand why, its a top quality product which cost 800 for sony to build. Add Wifi and a HD Drive to the xbox360 and it is the same price(399+99+99=597). To get the true value from the PS3 you really need a HiDef TV, so in about a 2 years when microsoft must realease a new xbox or expensive accesories to match you will be glad you have a PS3. My only concern is the loss of some exclusive titles, and not enough titles on the PS3. Even if blu-ray is not caught on by the majority, the use of blu-ray in games opens much more for the ps3 with the large amounts of data it can hold, much more then a 360 disc. I have also read that sony would like to design a more extensive copy of the will remote with motion and filed patents to do so. No one ever said gaming was a cheap hobby, and the PS2 still is a good machine so if you can not afford a new generation, the ps2 should still satisfy and people should stop complaing.

[MacRumorUser]

What were you saying about objectivity... How about a bit of hypocrisy now and then from your posts.


Only because you are putting words in my mouth. I never said the cube was a failure :rolleyes: Point to 1 post where I used the words 'the cube was failure'. Thats your interpretation of my posts only.

As someone who bought both a cube and a panasonic Q and has over 100 GC titles I really consider them to be a failure :rolleyes:
Even though I love nintendo's consoles and games, I can see where they made mistakes. That is what makes me objective.

Can I see where they are making mistakes with the wii, well yes region lockout, poor pal VC games etc. Do I think its a failure because I can see that ? Of course not.

I've posted more than enough critcism's at both Sony & Microsoft too, so to say I'm hyprocritical is a bit :rolleyes:

[Dagless]

dless of sales, and regardless of the semantics of "the sale", the new systems don't have the headstart like xbox. i have two of the three, and if i had a better job, i'd have all three. true gamers should embrace all three of these systems, because this is just the first generation of truly great systems. let them just beeeeeee!

I truly cannot stand this kind of response. Yes. In a perfect world it's right. In a perfect world there is no war, no killing, nothing bad. But true gamers should embrace all 3? If you mindlessly force yourself onto all systems released then how better are you than somebody who thought about it and came to the conclusion that one system hasn't got a feature the others have which drops the desire to have one, or in Sony's case drop the ball so friggin much you just don't bother with them at all?

If you can afford all 3 then go ahead. I'll sit here wondering if I should purchase a PS3 or 360 because that really is all I can afford as a student (or not even, I can't afford my own Wii at the moment).

If the machines were free then I would be objective to them all. But since one costs so much more for the same experience then whooops! Along comes preference and choice.

The PS3 is well before its time. People are complaining about the price of it. I dont understand why...

Well sir you are in the minority. An example of why people are complaining about the price-

You are FORCED into buying BluRay. It's not optional like HD-DVD on the 360.
The combined price is cheaper. (360+HD-DVD= £390 opposed to £430 for one PS3, oh and 360s bundle extra controllers and games since it's been out so long).
Absolutely, and this may seem hard to you, but forget about the PS3's extra features. Forget Linux and all that jazz. Yea? Good. This is a games console, the public the world over see this as a games console. That's what the PLAYstation brand gets you. Extra features that bring up the price, well that's foolish. That brings the price up to Japans PSX, 3DO, Jaguar etc prices. Do you know what happened with them?

You're looking at the PS3 from a minority view. It will be good for you and won't cost you much. But to everyone else it's the console that plays games that look just as good as the 360, the controller doesn't rumble and costs £160 more.

[wyatt23]

I truly cannot stand this kind of response. Yes. In a perfect world it's right. In a perfect world there is no war, no killing, nothing bad. But true gamers should embrace all 3? If you mindlessly force yourself onto all systems released then how better are you than somebody who thought about it and came to the conclusion that one system hasn't got a feature the others have which drops the desire to have one, or in Sony's case drop the ball so friggin much you just don't bother with them at all?

i'm not mindlessly forcing myself onto anything. ps3 is a crazy awesome system. the graphics are unbelievably good. no great. the most amazing gaming console i've seen to date. xbox has gears. nuff said. and the wii? this is a forum that proves people like the wii.

i don't really understand why you hate that kind of post. the post that says, hey guys, don't argue about what tastes better, an apple or a banana. you're not going to argue preference. and that's the difference between all three. preference and in wii's case, graphics. the titles are going to come. the sales are going to come.

but instead of embracing all of them, everyone wastes time arguing over something as ridiculous as sales. just play the systems. they're worth it.

people can really find a reason to complain and argue about anything.

[Dagless]

but instead of embracing all of them, everyone wastes time arguing over something as ridiculous as sales. just play the systems. they're worth it.

people can really find a reason to complain and argue about anything.

People find that numbers are good for arguing with. I'm not fussed about rock hard numbers, I just want enough people to buy Wii's (as is happening) for 3rd party companies to come flocking back in (as it happening).

And that's the whole point again. If these machines were free or reasonably priced then yes. There would be more people taking the neutral stance. But hell you know what? Most people can only buy one or two systems in a generation. The company who made the system you don't have suddenly buys up a studio (Rare being the most obvious) and WOW you have people who don't like the buying company. Simple as that.

I embrace things that are worth embracing. You talk as if the PS3 is before its time, wrong. It's a year too late. And in that year instead of being noticeably more powerful than the 360 - it looks worse. What happened in that year? Showing the power of the PS3 should have been paramount to Sony and their devs.
I won't wear my rose tinted glasses for Sony. Are they included with the £430 price tag?

[Coded-Dude]

In all fairness, for 3rd parties to come running back to Nintendo, I think Nintendo needs to be a little more "welcoming."
The the reason Sony did so well with PS1 was because they were more adamant about making good relations with third parties.

This is also a strong reason for Ninty being the most profitable gaming company.
(so much first party revenue)

I am not trying to say they are doing bad in regards to their relationship with third parties, but that they could be doing so much better.

oh and yes......sales of consoles really helps too! :cool:

[Dagless]

Well they have done right so far. 3rd parties are flocking to Wii and DS (mostly DS, and rightly so with it's domination). Exclusives are leaking from Sony to MS and Nintendo.

Even to me, I could (through my studio) go out and buy a Wii development kit for cheap. As an upcoming studio could I afford any other systems without taking out a loan? That's Nintendo's huge saving grace this time round, and the simplicity of coding for it. Really appeals to devs.
The bad side would be the licensing. I'm not in there yet but don't games get scrutinised by Nintendo?

[greatdevourer]

Well they have done right so far. 3rd parties are flocking to Wii and DS (mostly DS, and rightly so with it's domination). Exclusives are leaking from Sony to MS and Nintendo.

Even to me, I could (through my studio) go out and buy a Wii development kit for cheap. As an upcoming studio could I afford any other systems without taking out a loan? That's Nintendo's huge saving grace this time round, and the simplicity of coding for it. Really appeals to devs.
The bad side would be the licensing. I'm not in there yet but don't games get scrutinised by Nintendo? They allowed Dokidoki Majosaiban, so I'd say not all that much ;)

[Zinthar]

You are exactly right. I have played the systems and the xbox is fun, but I just dont enjoy the machine as I do my PS3, plus I am not a fan of microsoft.

The Wii seems like the sports games are fun, but playing madden is a little difficult, but other controllers can be purchased.

The PS3 is well before its time. People are complaining about the price of it. I dont understand why, its a top quality product which cost 800 for sony to build. Add Wifi and a HD Drive to the xbox360 and it is the same price(399+99+99=597). To get the true value from the PS3 you really need a HiDef TV, so in about a 2 years when microsoft must realease a new xbox or expensive accesories to match you will be glad you have a PS3.

Ummm, what in the world are you talking about?!?

The PS3 is over a year behind its time. Its most important piece of hardware, its GPU, is a weaker variant of a NVidia 7800 GTX (but with only 8 ROF's instead of 16; and running at a slower clock speed). The 7800 GTX was released for PC's in Sept 2005. In November, NVidia released the 8800 series, which should effectively be 2-3 times the power of the PS3's RSX. Many developers have commented that they believe the custom ATI GPU in the 360 to be more powerful than the PS3's, which its clear advantage in shading power being especially important to modern games.

Additionally, the Cell processor in the PS3 does not have the integer computational power as the triple-cored PowerPC variant in the 360 (Xenon/Zephyr), which is the type of calculation that gaming CPU's do most often. The cell processor excels at encoding/decoding multiple high-definition streams of video, which is perfect for HDTV's, set top boxes, and Blu-ray disc players, but does not improve the machines gaming capabilities.

The Xbox 360 is also a high-definition gaming machine, and one that can be reasonably argued by knowledgeable people to be more powerful in its gaming capabilities than the PS3. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that the Xbox 360 will not be replaced anytime soon, the system is more than competitive with the PS3 on both price and power. Just wait till the price comes down $100 and they reach the first mainstream pricing tier from their core system (when it reaches $199) -- sales will take off.

[bokdol]

I think they are referring to the manufacturer's warranty and not the store's return/exchange policy which on hardware I think is 14 days and 7 days for software. I would look into getting that clarified.

i think he is talking about the store warrenty for like 20 bucks extra. i bought one for my ds. as far as they are concerned i could kick drop it with in a year and get a new one.

[JackAxe]

Only because you are putting words in my mouth. I never said the cube was a failure :rolleyes: Point to 1 post where I used the words 'the cube was failure'. Thats your interpretation of my posts only.

As someone who bought both a cube and a panasonic Q and has over 100 GC titles I really consider them to be a failure :rolleyes:
Even though I love nintendo's consoles and games, I can see where they made mistakes. That is what makes me objective.

Can I see where they are making mistakes with the wii, well yes region lockout, poor pal VC games etc. Do I think its a failure because I can see that ? Of course not.

I've posted more than enough critcism's at both Sony & Microsoft too, so to say I'm hyprocritical is a bit :rolleyes:

I misconstrued that part, my bad, and for that I apologize, and if I had taken one step back, I wouldn't have gone down that path. The hypocrite comment was in regards to your remark about my objectivity, unless I also misconstrued that portion, if that's the case, I blame my coffee. *hides in corner* :o

Anyway, hopefully your eyes arn't sore, because I certainly made them roll back more than a few times. ;)

<]=)

[Xeem]

With 10.4 million units sold, the 360 has almost passed the Sega Dreamcast's 10.6 million mark (according to Wikipedia). That may not be important, but I thought I'd try to chime in with something other than a fanboy argument for or against any modern console :rolleyes: .

[MacRumorUser]

IAnyway, hopefully your eyes arn't sore, because I certainly made them roll back more than a few times. ;)


no problem. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:D :p :D

[Dagless]

With 10.4 million units sold, the 360 has almost passed the Sega Dreamcast's 10.6 million mark (according to Wikipedia). That may not be important, but I thought I'd try to chime in with something other than a fanboy argument for or against any modern console :rolleyes: .

DC only got to 10.6? That really makes me sad. It's an awesome machine, and if by some fluke of magic they allow DC games to be played on the Wii I would be a very happy person indeed. I only have an RF cable for my DC :o

[zero2dash]

DC only got to 10.6? That really makes me sad. It's an awesome machine, and if by some fluke of magic they allow DC games to be played on the Wii I would be a very happy person indeed. I only have an RF cable for my DC :o

Since they're still releasing new DC games in Japan, it's not likely :D

[Coded-Dude]

Well, NPD numbers come out Friday, so we will knwo for certain how many conusmers have actually bought. But its good that they were able to meet their shipping goals.