Kojima on MGS4...

[Chone]

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=94011

Interesting bits are: Kojima doesn't care much for the HD jump. Says BluRay is not overkill and agrees with Harrison's prediction that "games will soon use 50GB". Claims he would love to do something on the Wii, 360 and particularly PC but has to finish MGS4 first which he claims is PS3 exclusive thus far, 360 port seems unlikely.

Other than that, MGS4 is shaping up to be a great game, damn you Kojima for making me spend 500$ on a PS3 just to play your game...

[Dagless]

Interesting read.

Right now it's a toss up between MGS4 and Halo 3 for me. Considering I haven't like either series games since their 3D originals, i'll be sitting this out till they're both out.

I dont agree with the 50gb quote. PC's have been doing HD for years and they've never had games that big. Unless Kojima really relies on CGI cutscenes. I cannot see why games should increase to BluRay sizes at all.

[Chone]

Interesting read.

Right now it's a toss up between MGS4 and Halo 3 for me. Considering I haven't like either series games since their 3D originals, i'll be sitting this out till they're both out.

I dont agree with the 50gb quote. PC's have been doing HD for years and they've never had games that big. Unless Kojima really relies on CGI cutscenes. I cannot see why games should increase to BluRay sizes at all.

Yeah I don't agree with it either but I guess it has do something with games being played directly off the CD (as opposed to copied and installed to the HDD), some previous games have had larger filesizes on consoles than PCs... for example doom3 on xbox is a whooping 1GB larger than doom3 on PC. And there is also the whole multidisc thing to consider, on a PC game its not really a problem since you just have to deal with it during installation and then its one smooth ride but on consoles multidisc breaks gameplay and is an incovenience. Lets just hope DVD9 is good for now, I'd hate to see the 360 being limited by the size of its game media.

[MacRumorUser]

Claims he would love to do something on the Wii, 360 and particularly PC but has to finish MGS4 first which he claims is PS3 exclusive thus far, 360 port seems unlikely.


GP: Is MGS4 still planned as an exclusive PS3 game? Do you have any interest in Xbox 360 development?

Kojima: Well, yes, I do have strong interest in creating something for the Xbox 360. In the US and Europe, it is selling, and I think it will sell a lot this year as well. I'm a fan of Gears of War as well, it's very interesting.

Frankly speaking, I want to create something on the PC. It's a multi-platform [format]. I've been regularly studying work on the PC anyways, and I want to provide something as a world-wide platform because of the consequences with timing on the PlayStation platforms, MGS4 is actually for the PS3 only so far.

Thats not ruling it out. It means they may port after the PS3 version - much like Res 4 was 12 months after the cube.

Kojima is too sensible to never say never. He sees the market in Europe & USA and realises thats a lot of potential sales.

Personally never liked any of the MGS games though so I couldnt care one way or the other :)

[Haoshiro]

Well I for one believe he means it when he thinks games will require 50GB soon.

I don't think it's necessary except perhaps for the likes of him and his company.

Have any of you played the PC version of MGS2? If that doesn't give you a bad impression of the company I'm not sure what would.

First, it takes up 4GB which is ridiculous for this game. That matches it with Far Cry which is far FAR superior visually. The game textures are horribly, the control layout is even worse, even the interface is a cludge that doesn't support the mouse. No in-game control configuration, etc.

For something like MGS2 to consume 4GB makes me wonder what in the world they do over there at Kojima Productions. Everything says "sloppy" which is sad for a game of this reputation.

After that experience MGS series goes even further down on my list of stealh titles. Splinter Cell and Tenchu are better franchises with better gameplay, imo. Even though Halo 2 had it's problems it at least was an excellent multiplayer title (forgetting the, ... forgetful..., singleplayer campaign).

Bethesda had to use up a lot of extra disc space just to get the game to have decent load times thanks to slow access times of BD, that doesn't make you think a game could take advantage of that full capacity of BD with actual game content even if they wanted to. :D

[michaelltd]

Well I for one believe he means it when he thinks games will require 50GB soon.

I don't think it's necessary except perhaps for the likes of him and his company.

Have any of you played the PC version of MGS2? If that doesn't give you a bad impression of the company I'm not sure what would.

First, it takes up 4GB which is ridiculous for this game. That matches it with Far Cry which is far FAR superior visually. The game textures are horribly, the control layout is even worse, even the interface is a cludge that doesn't support the mouse. No in-game control configuration, etc.

For something like MGS2 to consume 4GB makes me wonder what in the world they do over there at Kojima Productions. Everything says "sloppy" which is sad for a game of this reputation.

Keep in mind that Kojima put A LOT of voice-over in that game. Several hours in fact. Not just for cutscenes, but for all the Codec calls you can make at any time in the game with several different ones for each and every event in the game.

[Haoshiro]

Keep in mind that Kojima put A LOT of voice-over in that game. Several hours in fact. Not just for cutscenes, but for all the Codec calls you can make at any time in the game with several different ones for each and every event in the game.

While not to the level of MGS, I realize, the example (Far Cry) also has quite a bit of spoken dialog (no text dialog anywhere, iirc).

MGS2 also doesn't seem to use any (or at least much) FMV... making the space required even worse, imo.

[2nyRiggz]

I can see games coming at a 50gig level...soon. I could care less if MGS4 will be ported, by then I'll already end the thing three folds. I like to hear stories when a developer is not trying to down consoles which they are not making the game for but try to expand on their potential in the future.
very smart man.




Bless

[michaelltd]

I really do hope that MGS4 is ported to the Xbox 360 because I don't have nearly enough to spend on a $500 or $600 gaming console, what with ever increasing DigiPen tuition and increasing rent ( 890 freakin' bucks!! (USD) ).

After reading that interview, I'm feeling more like it may certainly become a reality. I hope so, because I'm a big fan of MGS (My favorite being 2, but I guess I'm in the minority :o ).

[zoetropeuk]

Bethesda had to use up a lot of extra disc space just to get the game to have decent load times thanks to slow access times of BD, that doesn't make you think a game could take advantage of that full capacity of BD with actual game content even if they wanted to. :D

I'm not sure where people get the info from that Blu-ray drives are slow. A 2x BR drive is not 5 time slower than a 10x DVD drive, in-fact they're exactly the same speed which is equivalent to an 80x CD-ROM drive.

From my experience the load times on the PS3 are noticable faster than the 360. So I don' think padding the discs with duplicate data is true or a valid method of speeding up load times.

Matt

[greatdevourer]

I'm not sure where people get the info from that Blu-ray drives are slow. A 2x BR drive is not 5 time slower than a 10x DVD drive, in-fact they're exactly the same speed which is equivalent to an 80x CD-ROM drive.

From my experience the load times on the PS3 are noticable faster than the 360. So I don' think padding the discs with duplicate data is true or a valid method of speeding up load times.

Matthttp://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/1/17/6658

It is correct, it is true, if not duplicating the data, just filling the first 18GB of the disk with empties to push the data to the edges was done on all the original titles, iirc (hence how they can tout 22GB games :eek: Or not...)

[Haoshiro]

I'm not sure where people get the info from that Blu-ray drives are slow. A 2x BR drive is not 5 time slower than a 10x DVD drive, in-fact they're exactly the same speed which is equivalent to an 80x CD-ROM drive.

From my experience the load times on the PS3 are noticable faster than the 360. So I don' think padding the discs with duplicate data is true or a valid method of speeding up load times.

Matt

This was referred to in an interview with Bethesda regarding the PS3 version of Oblivion, you should be able to find it with a simple google search.

Perhaps it's more an issue with seek time then access time with an optical disc of that size, I couldn't say. But there's some reason they needed to use some tricks to get better load times form the drive.

Edit: Thanks to greatdevourer for the link. :)

[Coded-Dude]

First and foremost.....KOJIMA DOES NOT USE CGI. All cutscenes are rendered with the in-game engine.
MGS3: Subsistence was 3 discs and they had to cut out content. So while they do like adding loads of content, its not cgi.
This makes his statemenst about BD(or rather disc space), much more understandable.

Also, MGS4 may come to the 360, but it will most definitely be at least a one year timed exclusive.
(it will also come on multiple discs, if it does get ported).

I honestly think the MGS franchise is coming to and end. We may see one or two more console games, and sequel to portable ops, and maybe even acid on all portables.
But the story is almost over, so they would have to move on to a different character or keep coming out with backstories.

It would be interesting to see Kojima come out with a multi-platform new IP, for this generation. But only Kojima knows whats in store for future development.

[Dagless]

MGS3 is on 3 DVDs? Now that's bad design. I wonder if he's one of them devs who doesn't optimise? I mean Resident Evil on the Cube was 3gb, yet that had full MPEG4 backgrounds for every room. Oblivion? FarCry? Crysis?

I don't get it. Even with hours of speech and with HD textures.

[Haoshiro]

MGS3 is on 3 DVDs? Now that's bad design. I wonder if he's one of them devs who doesn't optimise? I mean Resident Evil on the Cube was 3gb, yet that had full MPEG4 backgrounds for every room. Oblivion? FarCry? Crysis?

I don't get it. Even with hours of speech and with HD textures.

Kojima seems obviously in the dark about optimizations. His games always seem to be very space consuming yet never technical showpieces. The MGS games never look or perform better then other games that came out the same time or even before it.

It'd be interesting to learn what in the world they do over there as far as development process and standards, but this is a mystery we'll probably never clear up. :D

[greatdevourer]

First and foremost.....KOJIMA DOES NOT USE CGI. All cutscenes are rendered with the in-game engine.
MGS3: Subsistence was 3 discs and they had to cut out content. So while they do like adding loads of content, its not cgi.
This makes his statemenst about BD(or rather disc space), much more understandable.

Also, MGS4 may come to the 360, but it will most definitely be at least a one year timed exclusive.
(it will also come on multiple discs, if it does get ported).

I honestly think the MGS franchise is coming to and end. We may see one or two more console games, and sequel to portable ops, and maybe even acid on all portables.
But the story is almost over, so they would have to move on to a different character or keep coming out with backstories.

It would be interesting to see Kojima come out with a multi-platform new IP, for this generation. But only Kojima knows whats in store for future development. Far as I remember, Snake suicides at the end of MGS4, so (other than annoying prequels), this'll be the last console one

[Coded-Dude]

One disc was merely bonus content, but they still couldn't add all the content they wanted to.

Far as I remember, Snake suicides at the end of MGS4,
O'Rly....so you've played this game and seen this scene? Thats funny, considering it won't be out until later this year.

The video where he holds the gun to his head is not proof of suicide, Kojima is not stupid enough to spoil the end with a "trailer."
Trust me on that.

[Haoshiro]

The video where he holds the gun to his head is not proof of suicide, Kojima is not stupid enough to spoil the end with a "trailer." Trust me on that.

I certainly agree with you there. It's possible I guess, but just seems far to unlikely.

If he does at the end (or even in the middle of the game) commit suicide I'm sure there would be some twist to it rather then it actually being the end of the game (and franchise).

[greatdevourer]

One disc was merely bonus content, but they still couldn't add all the content they wanted to.


O'Rly....so you've played this game and seen this scene? Thats funny, considering it won't be out until later this year.

The video where he holds the gun to his head is not proof of suicide, Kojima is not stupid enough to spoil the end with a "trailer."
Trust me on that. OK, cool... tbh, it's getting old (Snake certainly is...), and it'd be a good way to end it

[fiercetiger224]

First and foremost.....KOJIMA DOES NOT USE CGI. All cutscenes are rendered with the in-game engine.
MGS3: Subsistence was 3 discs and they had to cut out content. So while they do like adding loads of content, its not cgi.
This makes his statemenst about BD(or rather disc space), much more understandable.

Also, MGS4 may come to the 360, but it will most definitely be at least a one year timed exclusive.
(it will also come on multiple discs, if it does get ported).

I honestly think the MGS franchise is coming to and end. We may see one or two more console games, and sequel to portable ops, and maybe even acid on all portables.
But the story is almost over, so they would have to move on to a different character or keep coming out with backstories.

It would be interesting to see Kojima come out with a multi-platform new IP, for this generation. But only Kojima knows whats in store for future development.

I thought Subsitence was only 2 discs?

If you got the limited edition package, it was 3 discs, BUT the limited edition disc also featured a film-style re-editing of the game's cutscenes as one giant story presentation. And this disc was also filled up using MPEG2 video instead of traditional in-game cutscenes. So we could just scratch that out, and say it was only 2 discs.

Kojima does use a lot of space on his games. But we could also consider that the amount of audio for the in-game cutscenes take up a lot of space. Who knows what audio codec they're using for the cutscenes, which I suspect was probably uncompressed PCM audio or something like that.

[Coded-Dude]

Right, the 3rd disc was all bonus content, but they still had to make sacrifices for space requirements.

Also, I'm pretty sure they already confirmed MGS4 will use uncompressed audio.
I cannot confirm what older titles used, but if I had to guess, they probably use compression.

[MacRumorUser]

Kojima does use a lot of space on his games. But we could also consider that the amount of audio for the in-game cutscenes take up a lot of space. Who knows what audio codec they're using for the cutscenes, which I suspect was probably uncompressed PCM audio or something like that.

True.

Plus there is somthing no-one else has mentioned.

The chances are as developers have already said this. It enables them to put ALL the language versions on 1 disc, rather than manufacturing specific discs for different regions. But that of course takes up a heck of a lot of space - especially if its speech and embeded CGI intros. If you have 7 hours of speech in many different languages - it's soon going to rack up space wise for example.

[fiercetiger224]

Right, the 3rd disc was all bonus content, but they still had to make sacrifices for space requirements.

Also, I'm pretty sure they already confirmed MGS4 will use uncompressed audio.
I cannot confirm what older titles used, but if I had to guess, they probably use compression.

Ahh, I want that crisp uncompressed, surround sound. I wonder how much space that eats up? Kojima just likes that uncompressed stuff eh? :D

[Coded-Dude]

Yep, its good for Region Free discs, but it will make game downloads larger.
Unless you can specify what languages you want to download separately.......

[Haoshiro]

There's plenty of good lossless audio codecs out there. Personally I think consoles should come with hardware especially for this (so the system would support hardware decompression of many codecs). Even at lossless some basic compression can save a dramatic amount of space.

Hurray for letting developers be lazy I guess. Look at XBLA games like RoboBlitz, they pulled of some impressive stuff within the 50MB limit, but I'm sure they only did it because they had to. If it was an option, that might have filled an entire CD.

[Chone]

I think MGS4 is only the end of the Big Boss storyline, he'll die after this game and the series will carry on with Solid Snake (which is just a tad less cool anyways ;)) or maybe they'll drop Snake altogether and use a new character, Raiden wasn't THAT bad... :eek:

MGS is a great series, Kojima might optimize his games like crap but damn are they fun games, when I borrowed Zone of Enders from my cousin, I ended up playing and replaying the MGS2 demo a lot more than I did playing ZoE :p and MGS3 was awesome, I stayed until 2AM just to see the ending, great stuff.

Thats why I'm extremely dissapointed when I hear God of War being described as having "an incredible storyline" and being a "story driven opus", MGS3 has a story, God of War is just a collection of butchered and very inaccurate Greek mythology complete with breasts and "macho" guys, not to say the game isn't fun, but it doesn't have a good story.

Oh man, so many great games for the current consoles... for memorable gaming moments, I think PS2 is up there with the NES and the SNES for me.

[fiercetiger224]

I think MGS4 is only the end of the Big Boss storyline, he'll die after this game and the series will carry on with Solid Snake (which is just a tad less cool anyways ;)) or maybe they'll drop Snake altogether and use a new character, Raiden wasn't THAT bad... :eek:

MGS is a great series, Kojima might optimize his games like crap but damn are they fun games, when I borrowed Zone of Enders from my cousin, I ended up playing and replaying the MGS2 demo a lot more than I did playing ZoE :p and MGS3 was awesome, I stayed until 2AM just to see the ending, great stuff.

Thats why I'm extremely dissapointed when I hear God of War being described as having "an incredible storyline" and being a "story driven opus", MGS3 has a story, God of War is just a collection of butchered and very inaccurate Greek mythology complete with breasts and "macho" guys, not to say the game isn't fun, but it doesn't have a good story.

Oh man, so many great games for the current consoles... for memorable gaming moments, I think PS2 is up there with the NES and the SNES for me.

Ahh, well actually, it'll be the end of the Solid Snake storyline, because the game is about Solid Snake, not Big Boss. Big Boss is long gone in MGS4, with Solid Snake struggling to survive. Who knows, maybe Solid Snake might not die in the game. But then again, he probably will, as stated in the trailer. I'm in for surprises. :D