UK PowerBooks up, Desktops Down

[MacRumors]

MacWorld UK (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=6345) quotes IDC numbers that indicate that Apple's notebook marketshare has grown in the UK:

Apple's UK notebook market share climbed from 2.8 per cent to 3.4 per cent year-on-year. In total across all vendors, notebook sales grew 14.7 per cent year-on-year, so Apple's growth in that market exceeded industry averages.


Desktop sales, however, have been weak - with significant declines in sales from last year.

[visor]

Originally posted by Macrumors

Desktop sales, however, have been weak - with significant declines in sales from last year.

No wonder.
Desktops are noisy, comparatively slow and way overpriced.
Noone who doesn't really have to, would buy one now.
Hope they get a good replacement soon.

[gwangung]

Originally posted by visor
No wonder.
Desktops are noisy, comparatively slow and way overpriced.
Noone who doesn't really have to, would buy one now.
Hope they get a good replacement soon.

Don't think anyone with an IQ above room temperature would disagree. [And I'm pretty sure Apple knows this as well].

And, really...a desktop within 5-10% of the top Wintel performer would sell well...What folks are looking for is parity, at the very least....

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by visor
No wonder.
Desktops are noisy, comparatively slow and way overpriced.
Noone who doesn't really have to, would buy one now.
Hope they get a good replacement soon.

I completely agree. We'll see an increase in desktop sales if they put the 970 in the G4 tower, or whatever they're going to call it, and hold off putting it into the laptops. If they don't do that, desktop sales will continue to decline.

Excellent news though on the increase in laptop sales in the UK!

[pgwalsh]

Certainly looks like the year of the laptop for Apple. They do make the best looking laptops on the planet IMO. Are the laptops getting some would be PM sales? Maybe some... Hopefully people are waiting for the New PM too. If there are any new PM?

[Foocha]

Hmm, I live in the UK, and I just ordered a 17" PowerBook. Glad to hear I'm part of a trend ;)

Here's hoping Apple sorts out their desktop range soon - new faster chip and a nice new enclosure I think are in order.

[alset]

Am I the only person in the world who prefers a desk machine? Everything about it just feels right. I love my iBook, but something about component systems gets me off.

Dan

[visor]

Originally posted by alset
Am I the only person in the world who prefers a desk machine? Everything about it just feels right. I love my iBook, but something about component systems gets me off.


Towers are quite OK.

The last Tower I bought was about 650 euro one year ago, and has about the same power as a PowerMac worth 1866,44euro today.

You know what I mean?

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by alset
Am I the only person in the world who prefers a desk machine? Everything about it just feels right. I love my iBook, but something about component systems gets me off.

Dan I love the desktop too. Just don't love the current desktop lineup. Laptops are great for traveling etc, but they'll never replace my desktop.

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by alset
Am I the only person in the world who prefers a desk machine? Everything about it just feels right. I love my iBook, but something about component systems gets me off.

Dan

No, you're not. Apple's laptops, whilst being easily the best in the industry, are still not built as solidly as their desktop machines.

Hardware faults have been FAR more common on their laptops over the past few years than on any desktop - a quick glance at Macfixit or Macintouch will tell you that.

I'm in the enviable position of owning a powerbook and a powermac, and despite the recent hardware problems on my laptop i definitely value having portability, but I wouldn't buy another laptop until the quality control improves.

[BaghdadBob]

Are they going to bring back a dock-type apparatus? I never had a laptop, so I don't know how good that was or not, but I would hate to have only a notebook, personally. I like my desktop (although it's an iMac) too, although I think it's common sense they're not very good deals right now.

[Bengt77]

...I still love my iMac too much to sell it. Don't have money for another computer, so I'd have to sell it to buy a PowerBook. If I'd buy a laptop, it wouldn't be an iBook, although those look absolutely gorgeous too. PowerBooks rule big time! Can't wait to see what Apple has up it's sleeve with the 15.4" and the PPC970.

:D

[amnesiac1984]

I don't like having my intelligence insulted cos I got a PowerMac.
:D :D

Anyway, I agree that PowerBooks are far mroe competitive with windows notebooks than PowerMacs are with windows desktops. But, I am in the situation, which I know a lot of people are, that I will not use anything other than a Mac as my main computer and I need power. They may not be as powerful as the latest windows towers but they are by far more powerful than any Laptop. And Cheaper.

Besides, I got the mid range powermac from the first load of MDD's and htat was a good deal, basically £1500 for a Dual 1 GHZ with a fat graphics card. GOod Enough for me. If I didn't want to put two extra Audio only hard disks inside my computer and fill it up with RAM and use too processors worth of audio units then I may possibly have considered getting a PowerBook.

[ac2102]

The point is that Apple's range of notebooks exceeds the level of quality that similar Windoze portables acheive. With the added attraction of OSX, many (begrudged) PC users are looking to the Powerbook and iBook ranges. Apples combination of great technology, ease of use, style and, ultimately, fantastic portability are major plusses for the notebook market.

Comparitavely, Apple's desktop range continues to pale into insignificance when companies and individuals alike come to upgrade their systems, especially for windoze users. Only those who are either 'in the know' or have used Powermacs for creative purposes understand their appeal. Hopefully this will all change with the introduction of PowerPC 970 etc.

As you may have guessed, i am talking from a miserable experience as a Windoze user. :mad: Fortunately, about 4 years ago i was introduced to the Ways of Apple and consequently have been drooling over the Apple Store ever since! With any luck, i should have enough cash for an iBook this Christmas ( or whatever else WWDC produces.

[TheMightyG]

Steve had no choice BUT to call this year the "Year of the Laptop". It doesn't take a degree in marketing to realize that the megahertz myth is still out there and now its even worse than ever. Nobody will be happy buying PowerMacs when the top dog is only 1.42 Ghz for >2500, a 3.0 Ghz PC can be had for under a grand and the transition to IBM is the industry's worst kept secret. The laptop is the only area in which Apple can still compete on price/feature with Wintel until the 970 makes its way over to the desktop line so he naturally pumped it up. He's just putting a positive spin on a bad situation. The reason why laptops now make an ever increasing proportion of Apple's total sales is not because people are buying more PowerBooks and iBooks, its just that people were buying less Powermacs and iMacs. When and if 970 based PowerMacs get introduced, the "year of the laptop" will end pretty quickly. Until the portable line gets refreshed with new chipsets that is...
:cool:

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
I don't like having my intelligence insulted cos I got a PowerMac.
:D :D
I'll take those smilies to mean you're kidding ;)

If I had the money (and the need -- as opposed to want) I would have bought a high-end tower myself, despite the disparity between it and the PCs...but it's still not a very good deal...soon...soon it will change my pretties....MUWAHAhAHAHAHAH!!!!

Or it damn well better, anyway...

[macdong]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984
I don't like having my intelligence insulted cos I got a PowerMac.
:D :D

Anyway, I agree that PowerBooks are far mroe competitive with windows notebooks than PowerMacs are with windows desktops. But, I am in the situation, which I know a lot of people are, that I will not use anything other than a Mac as my main computer and I need power. They may not be as powerful as the latest windows towers but they are by far more powerful than any Laptop. And Cheaper.

Besides, I got the mid range powermac from the first load of MDD's and htat was a good deal, basically £1500 for a Dual 1 GHZ with a fat graphics card. GOod Enough for me. If I didn't want to put two extra Audio only hard disks inside my computer and fill it up with RAM and use too processors worth of audio units then I may possibly have considered getting a PowerBook.


You got my vote.
Though I really missed the time when I could put the tower right next to my ears and hear merely nothing.
Now I have to hide my tower behind and below my desk.

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by macdong
You got my vote.
Though I really missed the time when I could put the tower right next to my ears and hear merely nothing.
Now I have to hide my tower behind and below my desk.

Well, My last mac was a beige G3 desktop, and that was noisier than this thing (with apple power supply upgrade fitted)

Anyway, this is getting off-topic, but I guess there's not much more to say other than Most people I know are buying apple laptops, but thats because we are students.

[WestCoast]

I have recently been considering buying a PB17, but obiously now I'll wait till the WWDC. There's a real need for he PPC970 to be released soon. I believe it'll be in the PM, but I suspect the PB will wait another 6 months for a PPC970 version.

By the way, I have a G4 533 Tower with GeForceMX2 in it. Would a Nvidia GForce4 Ti make an incredible difference to my machine?javascript:smilie(':confused:') I may wait another six months for a new machine, but I want OSX to be slicker for the time being. Plus I'm gonna buy a 23" Cinema Display.

PPlease970!javascript:smilie(':p')

[Dave_B]

While increased speed from the mooted IBM 970 chip may well revive sales of Apples pro desktops their consumer range has a different problem.

Their entry level desktop, the eMac, is very, very ugly and any-colour-so-long-as-its-white is never going to have the popular appeal that the bright and cheerful scheme of the original iMac enjoyed.

[TheMightyG]

Originally posted by WestCoast
I have recently been considering buying a PB17, but obiously now I'll wait till the WWDC. There's a real need for he PPC970 to be released soon. I believe it'll be in the PM, but I suspect the PB will wait another 6 months for a PPC970 version.

By the way, I have a G4 533 Tower with GeForceMX2 in it. Would a Nvidia GForce4 Ti make an incredible difference to my machine?javascript:smilie(':confused:') I may wait another six months for a new machine, but I want OSX to be slicker for the time being. Plus I'm gonna buy a 23" Cinema Display.

PPlease970!javascript:smilie(':p')

Others may know better, but my understanding is that even the dual 1.42 ghz Power Macs can't saturate the top of the line ATI 9700 Pro/GeForce 4 Ti cards given the architectural limitations of the current MOBOs. It depends on what you want the new video card to do for you. If you are getting it for gaming, while you will definitely get a performance increase, I don't imagine that it will be overly dramatic even if you're playing a game optimized to offload onto a GPU like Quake III. Note that the newest games (NASCAR 2002/2003, UT2K3) all require high (>700Mhz) CPU requirements and others (Dungeon Siege) don't call for crazy fast minimum CPU speeds on the box but definitely need them to look even half good.
If you want a new GPU for gaming, may be better to get the whole optimized widget when the 970 rolls out if you want a desktop...you may get the ATI 9800 in that bad dog if you're lucky.

[freddiecable]

Originally posted by WestCoast


By the way, I have a G4 533 Tower with GeForceMX2 in it. Would a Nvidia GForce4 Ti make an incredible difference to my machine?

PPlease970!javascript:smilie(':p')

the machine & processor will probably be too slow for the graphics card...

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by WestCoast
I have recently been considering buying a PB17, but obiously now I'll wait till the WWDC. There's a real need for he PPC970 to be released soon. I believe it'll be in the PM, but I suspect the PB will wait another 6 months for a PPC970 version.

By the way, I have a G4 533 Tower with GeForceMX2 in it. Would a Nvidia GForce4 Ti make an incredible difference to my machine?javascript:smilie(':confused:') I may wait another six months for a new machine, but I want OSX to be slicker for the time being. Plus I'm gonna buy a 23" Cinema Display.

PPlease970!javascript:smilie(':p')

How much have RAM you got? If you os xto run smoothly make sure your running jaguar and put as much RAM as you can afford in it.

[ac2102]

Originally posted by Dave_B
While increased speed from the mooted IBM 970 chip may well revive sales of Apples pro desktops their consumer range has a different problem.

Their entry level desktop, the eMac, is very, very ugly and any-colour-so-long-as-its-white is never going to have the popular appeal that the bright and cheerful scheme of the original iMac enjoyed.

I agree that the eMac is not as appealing as the original iMacs, however you have to remember that it was introduced to the consumer line (after being available exclusively to the education market) by popular demand. Plus, with the recent upgrade to 1Ghz and the 'flat' 17inch monitor, the power is impressive with comparison to the price. It may be the entry level desktop, but it does its job very well!

[Dave_B]

Originally posted by ac2102
I agree that the eMac is not as appealing as the original iMacs, however you have to remember that it was introduced to the consumer line (after being available exclusively to the education market) by popular demand. Plus, with the recent upgrade to 1Ghz and the 'flat' 17inch monitor, the power is impressive with comparison to the price. It may be the entry level desktop, but it does its job very well!

It may well do its job very well, possibly even very well indeed but it seems to be experiencing difficulty with getting itself out the door. From Apple's perspective I suspect that may well mean a rethink is required.
:)

[mim]

This probably has as much to do with nobody buying desktops across the board as Apples weaker offerings.

Desktops are dead - at home and in the office. Only you Americans can afford the luxury of a dedicated table/space for you computer. The rest of the world is now living buildings where space is at a premium.

The only "desktop" I'd ever buy again would be a pizza box shape that fits under the tv with a wireless display. This is the future. Desktops will become what we now call "workstations".

This is why you can bet your bunnies that we'll see 970 (or whatever) laptops sooner than later. Apple must stay on top in the laptop market.

a.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by visor
No wonder.
Desktops are noisy, comparatively slow and way overpriced.
Noone who doesn't really have to, would buy one now.
Hope they get a good replacement soon.

Power Mac:
$2,567.00
17-inch monitor
Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache/processor
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
FireWire 800
56K internal modem
Bluetooth
AirPort Extreme
AppleCare Protection Plan

PowerBook:
$3,648.00
17-inch TFT Display
1440x900 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out
AppleCare Protection Plan

The Power Mac has more bang for less buck. The only advantage of a PowerBook is you can take it with you.

[mim]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Power Mac:
$2,567.00



+ cheap desk 300 pounds (500USD?)
+ chair 200 pounds (350USD?)

gets closer and closer to that powerbook price.

AND, the desktop doesn't let you surf your way to sleep at night. Gotta have the powerbook ;)

a.

[visor]

Originally posted by Dave_B
Their entry level desktop, the eMac, is very, very ugly and any-colour-so-long-as-its-white is never going to have the popular appeal that the bright and cheerful scheme of the original iMac enjoyed.

Well, I wouldn't have bought an old Imac as well. I used the ibook as entry level mac. A good opportunity to se if MacOSX was worth working with.

To sum it up - yes I like OSX, but why the hell does it feel like running on a 200mhz Pentium2?

[visor]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Power Mac:
$2,567.00
17-inch monitor
Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache/processor
256MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
64MB DDR video memory
FireWire 800
56K internal modem
Bluetooth
AirPort Extreme
AppleCare Protection Plan


The Power Mac has more bang for less buck. The only advantage of a PowerBook is you can take it with you.

You're right, that PowerMac would have more bang - but the price is somewhat different here.
I put the thing toghether in the German apple Store and came to an end price of 4004.32 Euro
That beeing about 4604 US$ at current exchange rate.
Almost double the price as in the States as it looks. Would you pay that?

[BaghdadBob]

Is it just me or did this forum turn into an argument between whether desktops or laptops are better?

Hello people, they're two completely different beasts. Last time I had expansion bays I seem to remember using them to the best of my advantage.

And I don't know that global real estate has become just so precious that no one has room for a desk. Especially as computers more and more replace all the things people used to use desks for.

I'm in a 1,200 square foot house with two adults and four children in it. We have two iMacs and two PCs.

I don't think the desktop is going to go away just so people can clear their computer in time for dinner :rolleyes:

And compression is not keeping up with bloat. Show me a laptop that can hold four HDs and eight ram slots and I'll show you a desktop that holds eight HDs and twelve RAM slots.

I love laptops and everything, but, come on, seriously people, don't start predicting the death of the desktop just yet.

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by mim
Desktops are dead - at home and in the office. Only you Americans can afford the luxury of a dedicated table/space for you computer. The rest of the world is now living buildings where space is at a premium.

What the heck are you talking about?:confused:

So you are the spokesman for the rest of the world? I don't think so!

All people I know never based their decision to buy a laptop vs. a desktop on dedicated table space they would have to provide. It's way more complex than that and Portability is reason number one. Also a lot of people have both, because a desktop provides much more expandibility and power than a laptop. It always depends on what you want to do.

I believe for most people the major reason to buy a laptop for private use is the comfort to bring it everywhere and to carry it around also at home. It is very convenient to be able to work anywhere in the house or appartement and being able to stay online through WLAN.

groovebuster

[mim]

Originally posted by groovebuster
What the heck are you talking about?:confused:

So you are the spokesman for the rest of the world? I don't think so!


I'm talking about trends that are quite well reported and studied. I haven't looked at it for a while, but you might find some info on DEWG's web site. They plan people's office spaces. They're well... pretty bloody influential. As far as I know, they haven't designed an office that >doesn't< revolve around hot-desking in some fashion.

In their own office, everyone picks up a laptop on their way in, and finds a desk. And seeing as they advise (for space planning) most major corporations in the world...you could say this view is getting pretty well established. Lots of places still have fixed workstations - but this is changing very quickly. Most new offices (and yes - I've help design a few - even one in Berlin) acknowledge that these modes of working will become the norm.

And also being involved in a residential developments in a few cities across the world I can say that a space for a dedicated office/computer workstation or desk is >not< being offered. In terms of space it's too expensive and extravagent. Rather than pay the additional $2000-3000 >PER SQUARE METRE< for a study space (or even compact office shelving etc) more people are turning to laptops for their home.

So no - I'm not a the spokesman for the world - but I get out there enough to see what's going on. Try it sometime.

[edit: I'm not trying to say no-one will want desktops, just that most people will start to buy laptops as they become more powerful. These guys http://www4.gartner.com/pages/section.php.id.2034.s.8.jsp had a huge study on the growth of mobile computers. I don't have time to dig for it right noe, but it's there somewhere. I'm not trying to start an argument - I'm just saying what is actually happening. Like it or buy a desktop!]

cheers,
a.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by amnesiac1984

Besides, I got the mid range powermac from the first load of MDD's and htat was a good deal, basically £1500 for a Dual 1 GHZ with a fat graphics card. GOod Enough for me. If I didn't want to put two extra Audio only hard disks inside my computer and fill it up with RAM and use too processors worth of audio units then I may possibly have considered getting a PowerBook.
I got the same powermac (now quietened with the PSU kit;) ). Got it for £1350 as it was an 'old-model'. Personally I don't care whether it's as fast as a 3GHz P4 as I don't want a P4 machine - I want a mac. It's faster than my old Athlon XP 1700, a lot nicer to use and quieter. How many people here who are moaning will be out buying these fabled pentium 4-kicking machines when they arrive? Or will they just start complaining how much they cost? Whining on about how lousy the mac desktops are doesn't exactly help Apple sell more macs does it? Some people may need the power of 3Ghz P4 machine - most don't. That's why the emac is a perfectly acceptable machine for the majority of people that buy PCs. The sort of people who think a faster processor makes the internet faster...:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Mim

+ cheap desk 300 pounds (500USD?)
+ chair 200 pounds (350USD?)

gets closer and closer to that powerbook price.
Wow...you shop at expensive furniture stores;)

[YWN]

Ok, I am a student, and can't afford a PB, so I will have to get a PM if I want a new computer...

And euhm, I guess everybody has a chair in their home, and has a desk, what are you complaining about, Mim. I myself need a desk, to study on, so I can put a PM under the desk, and above it the monitor... (I btw have a very big desk, on what I can put about 5 PM's, with monitors (don't have the money for that though)). And, for a computer desk, you pay, 50-100$, for a normall one, and a chair, I am sure you can grab it from any place, if you can't, put the desk next to your bed, and then go sit on your bed, and use the computer. Where is the problem???

Anyways, I think the PM sales will boost as soon as the PPC 970 gets released in PM's...

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by mim
In their own office, everyone picks up a laptop on their way in, and finds a desk. And seeing as they advise (for space planning) most major corporations in the world...you could say this view is getting pretty well established. Lots of places still have fixed workstations - but this is changing very quickly. Most new offices (and yes - I've help design a few - even one in Berlin) acknowledge that these modes of working will become the norm.

Since I am working with a lot of companies of different sizes I can't confirm that at all. They predict all that stuff since more than 10 years (teleworking and that kind of office you were referring to) and so far not a lot changed. I know companies that tried that stuff and went back to traditional working methods because it was almost impossible to work effectively that way.

In big companies they work with thin clients (administration staff) and workstations (developers and media staff) but still no laptops all across in sight. When you have to work at your desk anyway every day a workstation doesn't take more space than a laptop anyway. The PC goes under the table, an LCD and the keyboard use hardly more space than a laptop on the desk. And I can't think of almost any office desk that doesn't need a computer for daily tasks, so it has to be there anyway. Since the profiles of the users are stored on the server it is also no problem to switch desks with somebody else for a while. Laptops are only for the sales people who have to bring their stuff with them. Not any difference in small companies. I believe what I see and it is way different to what you want to sell/tell me. Nobody knows the norm of tomorrow just because there are some "innovative" (disputable anyway) exceptions. Norm means the majority is doing it and we are far from that for years. Maybe (and that's what I predict) it will never happen for the majority of companies and people.

Originally posted by mim
And also being involved in a residential developments in a few cities across the world I can say that a space for a dedicated office/computer workstation or desk is >not< being offered.

Of course not, because even a workstation is not taking much space today, it fits nicely under the table. Days are gone when computers had the size of a king size fridge. An LCD and a keyboard are not a lot bigger than a laptop.

Originally posted by mim
The only space you have to scar In terms of space it's too expensive and extravagent. Rather than pay the additional $2000-3000 >PER SQUARE METRE< for a study space (or even compact office shelving etc) more people are turning to laptops for their home.

How many companies have office space for $2000-3000 per m^2? You are kidding, right? Also an appartment doesn't cost that much when you are not so crazy to move to a yuppie quartier. And if you are able to pay that much per m^2, space for an extra computer desk for at home is the last concern you normally have...

Maybe you should start thinking about the real "norm" and not just the upper 10% of people or companies.

Originally posted by mim
So no - I'm not a the spokesman for the world - but I get out there enough to see what's going on. Try it sometime.

Look who's talking! :D

No offense dude, but it seems that I seem to get out there way more often than you do, regarding what you are writing. All those predictions about our working environment were totally wrong since 10 years. And it will probably stay like this for the next 10 years when I look at the predictions they do now...

Just open your eyes when you get out of your ivory tower and you'll see what the real norm is.

Let's talk about it in 10 years again. I'm curious if anything what was predicted today really will have happened then.

(I remember that when I was little they predicted colonies and mining on the moon in the year 2000 as well as cars that run with alternative energy. My travel agent still refuses to sell me a ticket to moon... weird, huh?)

Peace, :cool:

groovebuster

[Dave_B]

Originally posted by visor
Well, I wouldn't have bought an old Imac as well. I used the ibook as entry level mac. A good opportunity to se if MacOSX was worth working with.

To sum it up - yes I like OSX, but why the hell does it feel like running on a 200mhz Pentium2?

I believe that would be the anti-RSI protection software installed by default with OSX . Its not acutally slow itself, it just worries about you. Another aspect of this feature is the reminder to take more exercise - you'll know this by its "spinning beachball" icon.

[mim]

Originally posted by groovebuster
Let's talk about it in 10 years again. I'm curious if anything what was predicted today really will have happened then.

(I remember that when I was little they predicted colonies and mining on the moon in the year 2000 as well as cars that run with alternative energy. My travel agent still refuses to sell me a ticket to moon... weird, huh?)

Peace, :cool:

groovebuster

Well yeah :D these things have a habbit of not comming true. Ok - not to continue this too much longer, but I just want to point out that, no - I'm not terribly wealthy, and most companies that do actually to these things tend to be very careful with their budget.

You're right about the thin-client thing - I see that as a move away from desktops too. One company I did work for moved building, replaced every CTR with LCDs, bought smaller desks, and a leased a smaller building. They saved enough rent in 6 months to pay for the LCD up-grade and new desks.

And I'm afraid that new appartments & houses do cost that much a square metre. More if you're living in London or Tokyo. This price is city living at it's cheapest...ofcourse you can get cheaper and slightly bigger homes even in London - but you're living about 1 hour from central London. In the next few years even these places will start to cost much more. Most younger people like me, who still rent, can either affort a bigger house an hour out of London, or a small flat in the centre. Same in Melbourne and most other large cities in the world.

Man, I'm not making this stuff up! The trends are there (or here http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,42667,00.html - Gartner's - that link in my last post - have stuff on this but it's pay only...). Laptop sales up 6%, desktops down 3%. Worldwide.

It's happening. The only way desktops will survive becoming a poweruser niche will be with wireless displays and a box a-kin to your stereo's.

Anyway...let's just agree to disagree ;)

a.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by mim
+ cheap desk 300 pounds (500USD?)
+ chair 200 pounds (350USD?)

gets closer and closer to that powerbook price.

AND, the desktop doesn't let you surf your way to sleep at night. Gotta have the powerbook ;)

a.

You realize that almost every living space in the Western world has a desk and chair, I hope.

And for the record, what about carrying cases? Those cost money.

And even if the Power Mac cost the exact same as the PowerBook, the Power Mac would still be more powerful.

That said, I plan to buy a PowerBook this August, since I'm going to be a college student. A Power Mac may cost less and may have more speed, but I still can't carry it to class :)