pc users, myths, "computer" teachers and quality vs. quantity

[janey]

during math, the computer teacher was the substitute. :rolleyes:
we also got new seats. I happen to sit in between every single one of the most violent and amazingly stupid PC users in the entire program at my school.
Wow what a surprise...even the math teacher and the computer teacher both prefer using Windows.
So today we spent the entire time arguing about the pros and cons of owning a Windows PC. We also argued about Macs and Apple and Steve and NeXT.
We spent more than half an hour discussing (more like yelling)...anyone know of any good comebacks?
btw i also got in a bit of trouble by telling quality not quantity in someone's face :rolleyes:

[VoodooDaddy]

so whats you point? You think because you use a Mac your point of view is right?? Maybe instead of the other guy being the "stupid PC user" you are the "stupid Mac user."

Typical Apple rhetoric there. ANYONE that uses a pc is stupid and a neanderthal.

I have no ill feelings towards Mac, actually I came here looking for advise on which Mac to get for my first one. But I see SO much of this stupid "we are so much better than PC users" crap it makes me not to even want to bother.

I go to alot of pc forums and there are very few random "lets bash Apple" threads like I see on Mac boards.

Get over it ppl. You like Mac, good for you. I prefer PC, good for me. Dont go on like you are better than me because of a goddamn computer.

Flame away if you have to, it will only cement my view that most Apple users are holier-than-thou-pc users.

[Thanatoast]

As ümlåt gød I would be willing to smite them for you. :D :)

Seriously, comebacks against which arguments, though?

[tazo]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
so whats you point? You think because you use a Mac your point of view is right?? Maybe instead of the other guy being the "stupid PC user" you are the "stupid Mac user."

Typical Apple rhetoric there. ANYONE that uses a pc is stupid and a neanderthal.

I have no ill feelings towards Mac, actually I came here looking for advise on which Mac to get for my first one. But I see SO much of this stupid "we are so much better than PC users" crap it makes me not to even want to bother.

I go to alot of pc forums and there are very few random "lets bash Apple" threads like I see on Mac boards.

Get over it ppl. You like Mac, good for you. I prefer PC, good for me. Dont go on like you are better than me because of a goddamn computer.

Flame away if you have to, it will only cement my view that most Apple users are holier-than-thou-pc users.

Allow me to play devils advocate here. While it is true that many mac users regard pc users as neanderthals, many 'mac' users themselves are also pc users. I went to a doctors appointment today, and the woman was using the pc in there to type in my symptoms, and it is running WIN2K pro with some proprietary software on there. here is our conversation: (D=doctor)
D-Augh this comp is so slow
M-well hey thats windows
D-oh are u good with windows?
M-well I am really a mac person
D-oh forget it, you wouldnt know anything about comps then
M-Um, yeah ok.

I swear that was the convo. verbatim. Anyway.

Ubergeek, while it is true that many pc users act queer in their neanderthalic behavior, buit at the same time not everyone is graced with the abillity to own the luxury of a mac. I was able to buy my current mac, an iMac 600mhz G3, via an inheritance. if not for that it would take a job or a ton of saving to get one. I am sure you have several highend macs and from your POV all pc users are stupid, however one must realize that not everyone is graced with the opportunity to purchase and/or learn about a mac.

Just my $0.02, take it or leave it.

-tazo

[Flynnstone]

Voodoodaddy
I've used PCs for years. But I've using Macs also lately (OS X) only. My next computer will be a mac. I am waiting for a dual 970 machine. In my opinion, Mac OS handles Dual processors better. I use both Dual processor NT and OS X machines.
So don't give up because of the rhetoric :)

[VoodooDaddy]

I know it goes both ways, "apples sucks", "pc sucks", I've seen it from pc users too. And the majority of the people here have been very helpful in trying to point me in the right direction on my first Mac purchase.

But, as I said, there is just an inordinate amount of the "we are better attitude", way more than I've ever seen on a pc forum.

I guess I should just overlook those kinds of comments, but I'm just a little too confrontational for my own good. :)

[springscansing]

ubergeek... just grow up and realize Apple is just a company out to make a buck for gosh sakes.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
But, as I said, there is just an inordinate amount of the "we are better attitude", way more than I've ever seen on a pc forum.

Eh, that's because we are. ;) You don't see it so much on the PC forums because they know they are not better. :p

[ebow]

Originally posted by springscansing
ubergeek... just grow up and realize Apple is just a company out to make a buck for gosh sakes.

And perhaps stick to... I don't know, maybe math? during math class. :rolleyes:

I've bashed both sides in my "younger" days, but almost always as an extracurricular activity.

[ebow]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
But, as I said, there is just an inordinate amount of the "we are better attitude", way more than I've ever seen on a pc forum.


I'd venture to say that those who post here constitute a smaller and less representative community than you'll see on many Wintel-oriented forums.

[tazo]

Originally posted by ebow
And perhaps stick to... I don't know, maybe math? during math class. :rolleyes:

I've bashed both sides in my "younger" days, but almost always as an extracurricular activity.

Classroom discussion can easily digress into a tangent. For example, last week my english teacher was critiquing a paper of mine, in which I wrote "when does the home become a prison for man?"- he wrote back on the paper "......or woman?". I went up to him and questioned him about it, and he said that its not correct to put that down. And bam! We were now in a discussion of political correctness. I made several good points all basically objecting to it, on the grounds that it will never end...

"David letterman forced to change his name to Letterperson"

"As a construction worker I would lift up a man(andwoman)hole cover in the street"

"I would become the personager of a bank"

"Grocers would change a certain fruit to become person-go."

"Pizza guy becomes, mobile retail food delivery specialist"

When does it end?, I asked the teacher, then the bell rang.

[janey]

Originally posted by tazo
Ubergeek, while it is true that many pc users act queer in their neanderthalic behavior, buit at the same time not everyone is graced with the abillity to own the luxury of a mac. I was able to buy my current mac, an iMac 600mhz G3, via an inheritance. if not for that it would take a job or a ton of saving to get one. I am sure you have several highend macs and from your POV all pc users are stupid, however one must realize that not everyone is graced with the opportunity to purchase and/or learn about a mac.
i never said anything about all PC users being stupid, i just said the ones at my school and the ones that i know are.
I'm a PC user too, i don't hate windows, i just think that quality is better than quantity, although my fellow classmates would disagree.
and you have to realize that these are people who live less than 30 minutes away from an Apple Store, they can afford to buy high end PC's and tons of games and are willing to spend $$$ for anything new.
Why not get a Mac? They have seen and in some cases used my AluBook/iBook and think it's adorable.
You need to know them to understand my frustration, they've been constantly stating that if Apple was any good it would consider making computers with faster processors (who cares about clock speed?!) and computers that looked better-and the girl sitting behind me totally dissed my G4 Cube. That's not cool :rolleyes:

[janey]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
so whats you point? You think because you use a Mac your point of view is right?? Maybe instead of the other guy being the "stupid PC user" you are the "stupid Mac user."

Typical Apple rhetoric there. ANYONE that uses a pc is stupid and a neanderthal.

I have no ill feelings towards Mac, actually I came here looking for advise on which Mac to get for my first one. But I see SO much of this stupid "we are so much better than PC users" crap it makes me not to even want to bother.

I go to alot of pc forums and there are very few random "lets bash Apple" threads like I see on Mac boards.

Get over it ppl. You like Mac, good for you. I prefer PC, good for me. Dont go on like you are better than me because of a goddamn computer.

Flame away if you have to, it will only cement my view that most Apple users are holier-than-thou-pc users.
i'm gonna choose not to flame you.
However, i did not mention any crap about mac users being better than PC users. there are many PC users who are my classmates. I respect most of them. There are a few who believe the PC's are better than Macs myth (the PC users i mentioned), and the Macs are better than PC's myth (some of the Mac users). I respect them too. The people I mentioned however are your typical pro-war, pro-bill gates, pro-violence schoolyard bully type of people that i would show respect to...if only they weren't so damned ignorant of what goes on in this world. Most PC users don't want to bash Macs for one reason: there are no reasons to do so. And Mac users have no reason to do so as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to using both platforms and that's the reason why i use Macs more than I use Windows or Linux. I just like the ease of use and the quality of apple's products after using various platforms.
That does not make my point of view correct.

[springscansing]

Uber, trust me, you're gonna look back in 4 years and think... I actually DID that?!

I've done it many times myself... trust me. Just keep that in mind when you do such things.

[janey]

Originally posted by springscansing
Uber, trust me, you're gonna look back in 4 years and think... I actually DID that?!

I've done it many times myself... trust me. Just keep that in mind when you do such things.
come on it was the G4 CUBE.
apple's greatest and cutest and most memorable computer.
yeah you're right...i will forget or think that i was nuts...

[springscansing]

As long as you realize that. :-)

Hell I look back at what I did three days ago in disgust... all part of growing up.

[applemacdude]

Forget those people! Why are U trying to "impress" them. If u know they're dumbassess why don't u just let em be? If u think think theyre ignorant and dont know what they are talkin about just let em go play with their LITTLE PLAYTOYS

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
I know it goes both ways, "apples sucks", "pc sucks", I've seen it from pc users too. And the majority of the people here have been very helpful in trying to point me in the right direction on my first Mac purchase.

But, as I said, there is just an inordinate amount of the "we are better attitude", way more than I've ever seen on a pc forum.

I guess I should just overlook those kinds of comments, but I'm just a little too confrontational for my own good. :)

Well it's because we are the vast majority and because of that it causes a sense of insecurity which drives us together to form communities which in tern amplifies our zeal for our favorite computer by mutitiudes and it all just spirals out of control from there.

I think you will see the same thing from any group of people that are not only the known underdog but the people who are part of the group know it too. We want to fight back for our Mac.

I truly believe we have the better overall system. I'm not saying we have the absolute best in any category but as an overall system it is very well balanced and this come from the amount of control Apple has in creating a certain feel and operability into the system and integrating it with the hardware. You just can't get that when you have to make your OS function on a wide array of systems with very little quality control over the whole thing. I undestand that PCs have faster this and faster that but I couldn't care for my own personal use that this or that operation finishes 10secs faster. That 10secs didn't save me anything for my personal use and face it the vast majority of users don't even need the power of a 500MHz box let alone a 3GHz box.

[janey]

Originally posted by applemacdude
Forget those people! Why are U trying to "impress" them. If u know they're dumbassess why don't u just let em be? If u think think theyre ignorant and dont know what they are talkin about just let em go play with their LITTLE PLAYTOYS
because they'd make great switchers.
I could just imagine their switch ads (if apple still did them :rolleyes: )
"yeah...i actually ripped apart a Mac because i hated it so much...but that was before a bunch of mac fanatics forced me into switching...but it was cool...*shoots PC*"

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by übergeek
because they'd make great switchers.
I could just imagine their switch ads (if apple still did them :rolleyes: )
"yeah...i actually ripped apart a Mac because i hated it so much...but that was before a bunch of mac fanatics forced me into switching...but it was cool...*shoots PC*"

You'll never switch a PC user by yelling at them and if they aren't even curious about a Mac then good luck. If someone want to know they will ask also it's something for polite conversation. Otherwise if your yelling at them or even speaking normally and telling them what a pile there machine is without have real cold hard facts that they will believe then you might as well tell them how small there dicks are and get it over with because that's what they're hearing.

[janey]

Originally posted by MacBandit
You'll never switch a PC user by yelling at them and if they aren't even curious about a Mac then good luck. If someone want to know they will ask also it's something for polite conversation. Otherwise if your yelling at them or even speaking normally and telling them what a pile there machine is without have real cold hard facts that they will believe then you might as well tell them how small there dicks are and get it over with because that's what they're hearing.
heh. i was kidding.
only thing i screamed at them was the quality thing because they were screaming about how "new" centrino was.

[applemacdude]

Originally posted by übergeek
because they'd make great switchers.
I could just imagine their switch ads (if apple still did them :rolleyes: )
"yeah...i actually ripped apart a Mac because i hated it so much...but that was before a bunch of mac fanatics forced me into switching...but it was cool...*shoots PC*"

well why are u tryin to switch asses?

New switch commercial
" Hello, my name is xxxx. I hated macs even though i never used one for a significant amount of time. until übergeek© told me how macs were better. scremin at us until we got the ****i* idea. oh how stupid i was back then. my name is xxx and im a wannabe"

[voicegy]

Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
I guess I should just overlook those kinds of comments, but I'm just a little too confrontational for my own good. :)

I've noticed that.:)

We've chased each other around here and there on this forum in several threads, and you do seem a bit on the confrontational side, but, hey, that's healthy, and allows Mac users to really think out their responses. It becomes a bit of a bore to often have to feel that somehow we must justify our existance, but there is also no room for Mac users to simply say "U SUCK" and "YOU DON'T GET IT"

I appreciate your comment, VoodooDaddy.

[tazo]

Originally posted by übergeek
i'm gonna choose not to flame you.
However, i did not mention any crap about mac users being better than PC users. there are many PC users who are my classmates. I respect most of them. There are a few who believe the PC's are better than Macs myth (the PC users i mentioned), and the Macs are better than PC's myth (some of the Mac users). I respect them too. The people I mentioned however are your typical pro-war, pro-bill gates, pro-violence schoolyard bully type of people that i would show respect to...if only they weren't so damned ignorant of what goes on in this world. Most PC users don't want to bash Macs for one reason: there are no reasons to do so. And Mac users have no reason to do so as well. There are advantages and disadvantages to using both platforms and that's the reason why i use Macs more than I use Windows or Linux. I just like the ease of use and the quality of apple's products after using various platforms.
That does not make my point of view correct.

I am extremely offended by your comment "a typical pro-war...", which you later insinuated that all pro-war people are bullies. I am extremely offended by that. I supported the war all the way up until it was won by us. I am pro-war because I think evil madman who killl thousands of their own people is insane enough to do something to hurt many more then 1000 and for that reason I am pro-war. Pro-war is not being a bully, its having faith in your government's military presence, and in the future of a new day.

Don't forget ubergeek that it goes both ways. I could call you a stupid treehugger, or a pacifist, or something much sinister, like liberal garbage.

I am willing to back up my opinion with facts and supporting evidence, are you?

-tazo

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by übergeek
...most violent and amazingly stupid PC users...

-übergeek (got the umlaut this time :D)

Violently stupid PC users?

Does this mean their heads explode when they try to think?

:D :D

Ok. I'm making light, sorry.

I used to work with a fellow by the name of Keith Powell. We used to call him Bill jr. as he was so steeped and knowledgeable (in bed?) with Microsoft and it's products, he was actually one of the Microsoft resources who contributed to the certification exams for MCSD and MCSE. He even resembled Bill Gates.

Well, in 2000, right before OS X was "public beta'ed", he was all hot and bothered about Windows XP. He knew that I was versed in Mac, and wanted to try to sell me on XP a bit.

(I'm not busting him, he's a really nice guy - just a tad inured.)

His line to me was something like "XP is going to be so great! They even closed port 156(?), so the computer will be more secure! Isn't that great?"

My response was something like:
"I'm sure that's a great improvement, but as a consultant, I need to look at it critically. Keith, you don't see something wrong with the idea that fixing a flaw is a marketable improvement? Calling something 'less bad' is not a positive sellinig point."

[patrick0brien]

-übergeek

More on the point to your question (and dovetailing to the one above), listen to their arguments (do it with a knowing smile), let them vent and beat their head against the wall for a while.

If you engage with them, don't let them get technical, it's escapism. (see the Keith Powell argument above) Stick to what matters, user experience, what the tool is used for. Be wiling to admit there are things Macs shouldn't be used for, and vice-versa. They cannot argue with the "I prefer Macs because I prefer Macs" argument as it is preference and ironclad.

Let them do most of the talking - remeber, knowing smile.

Definitely avoid being interpreted as a fanatic (not easy).

Admit that there are uses for either platform, argue the Total Cost of Ownership (TOC), and the fact that though Macs are more expensive up front, they last longer and need far less maintenance.

There are large IT departments set up to support Windows machines, why not Macs? Answer: Macs don't need 'em. Additionally, IT departments are motivated to to switch an entity (school system?) to PC, due to the fact that they'll have plenty of work to do, money to make, and have job security. And they will use lower Initial Cost as a selling point - never TOC.

Don't let them confuse Market Share with Installed Base. Market share is simply a market analysis of machines selling now. Install Base are those machines in use today. Apple's market share hovers about 3%. But install base is around 11.6% worldwide. (classic confusing these is the pundits talking about the iTunes store available to only 3% of the market. Actually, iTunes is available to the Installed Base - bigger than 3%)

There's no slowing of your system over time due to Regisry issues (yes, it's a little technical, but important to the user).

Ask them how often they reinstall Windows (Microsoft recommends doing so every 6 months). You never have to. Why? (registry issues among other things)

And finally, after giving them the (mosly) quiet "I'm listening" treatment, when you find your opening, lean forward (for effect) and say calmly, "Have you owned a Mac recently?" (recently meaning OS X- era)

You'll probably get responses in the negative.

Reply to that with "Well, I use PC's all the time, and know both. And I prefer this machine."
Note that this is simply a statement of fact: we live in a Windows world - as much as we loathe to admit it. This adds credence to your position, you know both, they know only one - their vehemence is an illustration of those blinders.

[Doctor Q]

übergeek, you probably already got what you wanted - a chance to let off some steam here.

When students ask me "What's best - a PC or a Mac?", it is almost always the case that they heard PCs were best from their friends or parents, already use a PC, and know nothing about Macs. And of course they mean Windows, not the PC hardware. I tell them the truth, that there are advantages and disadvantages to both, but that I prefer Macs for a number of reasons. I give them more details if they want them.

But I'm always tempted to say something like this: "I use both kinds. What's best for you depends on what you want the computer for. If you want to build a computer out of your own parts for the cheapest possible price, or if you want to have the same type of computer as your parents, and they use a PC, or if a PC is the only kind of computer you know how to use, then a PC is best. If you want the best interface, or the most dependable operating system, or you like music, or you do graphics or video editing work, or you want to be able to run both PC and Mac software, or you just want to be cooler than your friends, a Mac is best." That sounds vaguely impartial but puts PC users on the defensive. :)

In any case, a reasonable-sounding explanation is more likely to lead kids to consider using Macs than if I had said "Only idiots use PCs!" or something else confrontational (and not true). You aren't likely to convince your classmates by raising your voice or insulting them. You might get your satisfaction from knowing, and showing, that you are smugly secure in your superiority. Or, if it makes you happy, make claims with implied putdowns, such as "I guess you're one of the people who still believe in the megahertz myth" or "You probably don't understand productivity and return on investment" or "There are a lot of people who still think like you do." :)

[janey]

i was yelling for no reason at all (it's not PMS okay?!)
but we got into a mildly interesting conversation about what we should use PCs/Macs for today. So we ended up agreeing...but i screwed up when i told them to read Macintosh...The Naked Truth. That Scott Kelby book has to be one of the longest PC bashing books available and i wish i didn't tell them about it...now tomorrow i'm going to scream my lungs out at disneyland telling them that half of the things he said were dumb and typical of a mac user who thinks that they are superior compared to pc users.

[tazo]

Originally posted by übergeek
i was yelling for no reason at all (it's not PMS okay?!)
but we got into a mildly interesting conversation about what we should use PCs/Macs for today. So we ended up agreeing...but i screwed up when i told them to read Macintosh...The Naked Truth. That Scott Kelby book has to be one of the longest PC bashing books available and i wish i didn't tell them about it...now tomorrow i'm going to scream my lungs out at disneyland telling them that half of the things he said were dumb and typical of a mac user who thinks that they are superior compared to pc users.

disneyland? :D

[Freg3000]

I know some smart PC users. Of course, they can't be that smart since they use PCs......but they know what is going on. The aren't the type that don't think that Macs can use printers or go on the internet. But for every one person like that......there are 20 others. :(

[janey]

Originally posted by tazo
disneyland? :D
http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/event?id=DisneyMagicMusicDaysEventPage
btw, disneyland is not the happiest place on earth...disney's absolutely ruthless and they have an actual jail there too...i've known people get arrested then later sued for stealing and stuff

[applemacdude]

Originally posted by übergeek
http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/event?id=DisneyMagicMusicDaysEventPage
btw, disneyland is not the happiest place on earth...disney's absolutely ruthless and they have an actual jail there too...i've known people get arrested then later sued for stealing and stuff

i swear mickey mouse is evil

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by übergeek
http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/event?id=DisneyMagicMusicDaysEventPage
btw, disneyland is not the happiest place on earth...disney's absolutely ruthless and they have an actual jail there too...i've known people get arrested then later sued for stealing and stuff

So it makes Disney evil if they arrest you for stealing then prosecute you?

[janey]

Originally posted by MacBandit
So it makes Disney evil if they arrest you for stealing then prosecute you?
no. they win too much. i mean some kids steal and apologize, and all the problems are solved and they leave without getting in any major trouble, but if you don't act the way they want you to act, then they arrest and sue you :rolleyes:
but most of the time they're great...but watch out for those undercover spies who dress up like stereotypical tourists :p
don't mess with the mouse

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by übergeek
no. they win too much. i mean some kids steal and apologize, and all the problems are solved and they leave without getting in any major trouble, but if you don't act the way they want you to act, then they arrest and sue you :rolleyes:
but most of the time they're great...but watch out for those undercover spies who dress up like stereotypical tourists :p
don't mess with the mouse

Well if you were as big as they are and had fans as fanatical as them I think it would pay off to have the security that they do. Just thinks of the millions of dollars they spend for security. There must be a reason it must pay for itself. Also if your caught stealing you should expect to be severly punished. The moral is don't get caught or if you can't do that don't steal.

[Doctor Q]

I guess I'd better return this Roger Rabbit Toon Spin car. I snuck out with it under my coat, but I thought they wouldn't mind.

[Flynnstone]

Thread is off topic :o

PC users will agree with Mac user about "PCs suck", just moments after their PC crashed.
Mac users will agree with PC user about "Macs suck", just moments after their Mac crashed. Only this doesn't happen as often.;)

[tazo]

Originally posted by übergeek
http://disneyland.disney.go.com/dlr/detail/event?id=DisneyMagicMusicDaysEventPage
btw, disneyland is not the happiest place on earth...disney's absolutely ruthless and they have an actual jail there too...i've known people get arrested then later sued for stealing and stuff

there used to be a rumor that no person was allowed to die on a disneyland property, its on snopes now. It said that uniformed medical personell nor police officers are every allowed on the disneyland property, for fear it could become bad PR. go search on snopes.com, under the disney category. a very interesting read.

On your point Ubergeek (i know you have the little dots but i dont know how to do it on my pc :(), can't you just imagine some guy in like a mickey mouse suit walking around you, you under a hot line in a dark secluded room? Lol. "TALK DAMNIT!", "fine you caught me, i wanted to go to seaworld.."

:D

[tazo]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Well if you were as big as they are and had fans as fanatical as them I think it would pay off to have the security that they do. Just thinks of the millions of dollars they spend for security. There must be a reason it must pay for itself. Also if your caught stealing you should expect to be severly punished. The moral is don't get caught or if you can't do that don't steal.

everybody steals something at some point. now remember stealing is, "taking without asking", so it could even just too many free samples. lol. I too am guilty of shoplifting, twice. Once I was not caught, the second time I was, however I was never convicted and only had to do 8 hrs of community service. I would never do it again, because trust me, those grocery store people are a$$hos sometimes.

-tazo

[CMillerERAU]

I think it all boils down to a macho thing, if there was only PC (or macs?) it would be more like "mine has a Radeon 9000" "oh? well mine has a GeForce 4!" and then the chaos begins. I think it has nothing to do with computers and everything to do with the classic battle of keeping up with the Joneses. Either that or the Star Wars rebels against he empire. I think we should just all settle down and keep our battles as just fun, ITS JUST A COMPUTER AFTER ALL!

[5300cs]

Originally posted by patrick0brien
-übergeek

More on the point to your question (and dovetailing to the one above), listen to their arguments (do it with a knowing smile), let them vent and beat their head against the wall for a while.

If you engage with them, don't let them get technical, it's escapism. (see the Keith Powell argument above) Stick to what matters, user experience, what the tool is used for. Be wiling to admit there are things Macs shouldn't be used for, and vice-versa. They cannot argue with the "I prefer Macs because I prefer Macs" argument as it is preference and ironclad.

Let them do most of the talking - remeber, knowing smile.

Definitely avoid being interpreted as a fanatic (not easy).

Admit that there are uses for either platform, argue the Total Cost of Ownership (TOC), and the fact that though Macs are more expensive up front, they last longer and need far less maintenance.

There are large IT departments set up to support Windows machines, why not Macs? Answer: Macs don't need 'em. Additionally, IT departments are motivated to to switch an entity (school system?) to PC, due to the fact that they'll have plenty of work to do, money to make, and have job security. And they will use lower Initial Cost as a selling point - never TOC.

Don't let them confuse Market Share with Installed Base. Market share is simply a market analysis of machines selling now. Install Base are those machines in use today. Apple's market share hovers about 3%. But install base is around 11.6% worldwide. (classic confusing these is the pundits talking about the iTunes store available to only 3% of the market. Actually, iTunes is available to the Installed Base - bigger than 3%)

There's no slowing of your system over time due to Regisry issues (yes, it's a little technical, but important to the user).

Ask them how often they reinstall Windows (Microsoft recommends doing so every 6 months). You never have to. Why? (registry issues among other things)

And finally, after giving them the (mosly) quiet "I'm listening" treatment, when you find your opening, lean forward (for effect) and say calmly, "Have you owned a Mac recently?" (recently meaning OS X- era)

You'll probably get responses in the negative.

Reply to that with "Well, I use PC's all the time, and know both. And I prefer this machine."
Note that this is simply a statement of fact: we live in a Windows world - as much as we loathe to admit it. This adds credence to your position, you know both, they know only one - their vehemence is an illustration of those blinders.

I 100% agree with this tactic, only thing I'd like to add, is that you may want to make sure you have numerical superiority, or are just having a one on one conversation. Unfortunately pc users are the majority. I've tried having conversations like this, and if there's one or two clowns who don't want to listen, it can ruin the whole situation. You can be as nice and calm as you want but it'll get you nowhere. At that point I just let it go until another time.

I thought this whole Mac vs PC thing was over already .. is it coming back again?:rolleyes:

[tazo]

Originally posted by 5300cs
I 100% agree with this tactic, only thing I'd like to add, is that you may want to make sure you have numerical superiority, or are just having a one on one conversation. Unfortunately pc users are the majority. I've tried having conversations like this, and if there's one or two clowns who don't want to listen, it can ruin the whole situation. You can be as nice and calm as you want but it'll get you nowhere. At that point I just let it go until another time.

I thought this whole Mac vs PC thing was over already .. is it coming back again?:rolleyes:

try and have no more then a 3:! ration of pc users to mac users, it will always end up bad thereafter. lol. I find that if I walk into a group of people discussing pcs, or bashing Macs, they tend to get overly aggressive and make outlandish blatantly wrong statements.

remember people, 3:1 :)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by tazo
try and have no more then a 3:! ration of pc users to mac users, it will always end up bad thereafter. lol. I find that if I walk into a group of people discussing pcs, or bashing Macs, they tend to get overly aggressive and make outlandish blatantly wrong statements.

remember people, 3:1 :)

I find the gest way to convert PC users is to either demonstrate OSX or to let them use it for themselves. I did just that back in August just after I got my new Dual/GHz/DDR PowerMac. I just opened like 8 different programs started a CD burn and then opened up QuakeIII and started to play away. That was all fine and dandy. What shocked them was when I finished up a match and quit out of it. Nothing crashed not any of the many programs I had running and my CD burn had finished without a hitch. Also there was no slow down due to everything I had running. They were just dumbfounded.

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by Flynnstone
Thread is off topic :o

That's by far the funniest way I've seen anyone do that!

:D

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I find the gest way to convert PC users is to either demonstrate OSX or to let them use it for themselves. I did just that back in August just after I got my new Dual/GHz/DDR PowerMac. I just opened like 8 different programs started a CD burn and then opened up QuakeIII and started to play away. That was all fine and dandy. What shocked them was when I finished up a match and quit out of it. Nothing crashed not any of the many programs I had running and my CD burn had finished without a hitch. Also there was no slow down due to everything I had running. They were just dumbfounded.

I wish I could do that with my mere 800MHz G4 iMac.

:rolleyes: *DREAMS ON*

:o *SIGHS*

:( *GETS BACK TO WORK*

Still happy with it (my iMac), though...

:D

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Bengt77
I wish I could do that with my mere 800MHz G4 iMac.

:rolleyes: *DREAMS ON*

:o *SIGHS*

:( *GETS BACK TO WORK*

Still happy with it (my iMac), though...

:D

If you max out the ram on your iMac you should be able to do pretty much what I suggested. Maybe not quite as well but pretty close. It's more about OSX then it is about the dual processors.

[tazo]

<----------Wishes he had more then a 600mhz iMac G3

[iJon]

can't say ive proved my point by yelling and arguing for an hour. they think what they want, but you will see they get curious when i get out my 12 inch powrebook. everyone wants to play it, most of them are to ignorant to admit they dont like it. but i always hook them with my ipod, then they get really curious.

iJon

[Tequila Grandma]

Originally posted by applemacdude
Forget those people! Why are U trying to "impress" them. If u know they're dumbassess why don't u just let em be? If u think think theyre ignorant and dont know what they are talkin about just let em go play with their LITTLE PLAYTOYS
applemacdude, I think you might want to consider sending your keyboard back -- it seems to have shipped without the Y or O keys.

Honestly, instead of yelling at ignorant PC users, outlining just how silly their ugly computer and ugly OS are, I tend to just kind of snobbishly giggle at them and go back to using the wonderful OSX...

...and of course Disney is evil. Just look at the maniacal glare in the giant Mickey's eyes!

Well, now it's time to use the official performing fellatio smiley... :o

Arigato,
Brook

[tazo]

Originally posted by Tequila Grandma
applemacdude, I think you might want to consider sending your keyboard back -- it seems to have shipped without the Y or O keys.

Honestly, instead of yelling at ignorant PC users, outlining just how silly their ugly computer and ugly OS are, I tend to just kind of snobbishly giggle at them and go back to using the wonderful OSX...

...and of course Disney is evil. Just look at the maniacal glare in the giant Mickey's eyes!

Well, now it's time to use the official performing fellatio smiley... :o

fellatio

Arigato,
Brook fellatio :eek: disney :eek:

[janey]

disneyland was awesome :D
space mountain was closed :(
however, i had fun on teh splash mountain, autopia and matterhorn ;)
nobody got in trouble this time that's good :D
anyway one guy got lost, but the guys at disneyland found us for him :)

[tazo]

Originally posted by übergeek
disneyland was awesome :D
space mountain was closed :(
however, i had fun on teh splash mountain, autopia and matterhorn ;)
nobody got in trouble this time that's good :D
anyway one guy got lost, but the guys at disneyland found us for him :)

Last time I was in california (last august), I went on splash mountain at Disneyland, and I do not think there has been a better time on any vacation of mine, where I had that much fun. That last drop, the awesome feel of ice cold water on a sweltering day. Aww how I miss summers in Southern California. Anywho, glad ya had fun ubergeek.

-tazo